Timberwolves: What's our identity?
by Mplax on Aug 6, 2009 4:29 PM CDT
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PrintKahn has specifically said that we are going to be an up-tempo team next year. I'm not too familiar with Rambis' coaching style (The only thing we have to go off of is his brief stint as head of the Lakers during the lockout year), but I would guess that if he is a defensive mind like I have heard, he is not an up-tempo coach. Maybe I heard wrong about him liking defense, but I would much rather see a defensive minded coach than a Mike D'Antoni style. Then again, David Kahn doesn't give a **** what I think.
So my question is this: If we do indeed end up with Rambis a) is he focused on defense more than fast pace or did I hear wrong? and b) More so than just pace of the game, what style will we see out of the Wolves next year? Will we get an inside out type squad like Orlando? Rambis' version of the triangle offense? Will we make D'Antoni look like the Spurs? Or will we make the Spurs defense look like D'Antoni's teams (I sure hope so!)? Are we going to see isolation sets like the Cavs or Nuggets with A.I. and Carmleo? Will we get some nice ball movement?
I would love to hear some logical guesses supported by our current roster and things we have heard from Kahn, but if anyone has some cold hard knowledge on Rambis, please share!
On a side note, is anyone else sick of seeing our entire team finally getting set up when there is 16 seconds left in the shot clock, only to have our PF get the ball at the top of the key? I can't count how many times I looked away in disgust as Kevin Love, Craig Smith, or Al Jefferson would get the ball at the 3 point line and look like idiots while looking for a pass which usually ended up going back to the PG like it should have started out. It was absolute trash. It didn't get them anywhere, people were out of position, it didn't open any passes up, it was predictable, easy to defend, minimized PG contributions, wasted time, and did absolutely nothing good. No matter what coach we get or what style I see, I will be happy as long as I don't see this ever again. Sorry for my rant, coulda made this a separate post. Anyone agree though?
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"Show Time" Laker
Wasn’t Kurt Rambis a member of “Show Time” with the running Lakers?
The recent Lakers are more half court simply because it favors their roster. But Rambis has run and transition in his blood.
Why not both?
There is nothing that says you can’t run and play defence. Why not run it on offense and then press on defence? Limit the amount of time an opposing team has to try to take advantage of less than stellar interior defence with the press and good perimeter D.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 6, 2009 4:58 PM CDT reply actions
That's right..
..Good defense, shot clock running out, forced shot, rebound by Love, outlet to Rubio/Flynn and away they go!
Nothing says you can't try
But the league has very few two way players in that regard (good defense and also able to hustle above average on offense). And hustling so much on offense leaves you a little more tired on defense. I would love to see that mindset, it just seems harder to do than to talk about. Unless we could fill our team with guys like Chauncey, Kobe, Marion, Garnett, Howard… these were the best examples of good defensive guys who could hustle that I could think of….average age is pretty high too. Where’s defense going?!
Wishful thinking
I have to admit that although I don’t believe both Rubio and J-Fly will play serios minutes together, their combination of ball handling, passing and speed should put the offense in much better time positions than this last year (assuming rubio comes over of course). Even if bassy/Foye drove into the lane, they were so bad at finishing that they could never draw the help defender and open a passing lane. With enough speed and cutting ability on the perimeter, even if J-Fly and rubio can’t get in the lane, someone else should be able to get past their man.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 6, 2009 5:11 PM CDT reply actions
It's been said before
but Mike D’Antoni was an average defensive coach. They just played at such a pace that made it look like their opponents were scoring at will. Just like the Blazers last year lookedlike a good defensive team, but were terrible on that end.
As far as how the Wolves look, I think Orlando-lite on offense is probably the way to go. Maybe very lite, given our lack of shooters from distance. But a dominant big in the post freeing up the outsides would seem the way to go, based on the current personnel. For defense, if Rambis is hired, I’d guess we’ll see some zones.
Mike had some awful defensive players
Which you have to cut some slack for, but he should have figured out how to use them better. Marion was tremendous and so was Bell. He didn’t use those two nearly enough and he left Amare and Nash by themselves. I feel like with his offensive mind, if he could have figured out how to cover up defensive deficiencies then they would have won it all, but he didnt. So my biggest knock on him remains his defense. Popp and Sloan are guys who get the best out of their players no matter what they have to work with. Just think of how many guys came from other teams and went to the Spurs and became better players.
Tim Duncan...
…Tony Parker, and Manu have that effect on players.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
IMO
I dont think Manu would be the same player with any other coach. Tony Parker, while he would still be a stud, I also don’t think he would be the same. Same with Roger Mason, Matt Bonner, Robert Horry, and Bruce Bowen. There is a culture around that team that, to me, supercedes the talent. For example, when Manu and Parker were going through their injury problems, the Spurs were still an above .500 team. A better Wolves team with KG in for Duncan could not say that same thing (after Flip left that is…also a GREAT coach).
I see your points
It reminds me of Sloan in Utah—his teams play hard and win no matter what (seemingly). I guess, just as a broader point, I don’t think you can discount too much the impact of having a guy like Tim Duncan can have on a coach’s career. Horry had a great career prior to the Spurs with the Lakers where he again played with players who were so good that they let him excel as a bit player. Now that I think of it, there are a lot of bit players who achieved a fair amount of stardom by playing next to some of the greatest players (thinking of those Bulls teams from the 90’s).
Pop is a great coach, as is Phil Jackson. Both have had the luxury of having an MVP caliber player just about their entire tenure as coach. How would Casey have done if he had had the Spurs’ roster, or Lakers’? Would Pop have won us some championships if he had taken over after Flip left? I don’t really know, but raising that question for debate is my only point.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
The most underated part of
a coaches abilities are whether or not he can ditch his preferred playing style and plays to make the most of what his players can do. If you don’t have players who can defend…play a style that allows you to score, etc. A good coach can put his players in positions to either succeed or at least not fail. I know that Adelmen is fairly good at that. He doesn’t just stick to one style of play. I can’t say the same of Rambis…I just don’t know enough.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 7, 2009 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh no I definitely agree with you
I think Duncan makes them at least about a .400 team by himself (similar to KG, but no Manu or Parker), but I think Pop adds an extra .050 or even .075. A coach can only do so much, but I think Pop gets maximum value out of each of his players and that is where I think a coaches value lies. I agree with you 100% that it makes his job a lot easier to be riding Tim Duncan’s coatstrings, but I have trouble not comparing them to teams with (IMO) superior talent and worse records. A few of these teams I am talking about: Phoenix pre Shaq, NO, Dallas, Denver, and I am sure I’m missing a couple.
Basically I feel like San Antonio is the polar opposite of the Clippers. Both have had decent talent, but the team culture has a lot to do with how successful they are.
And yes, I also think Sloan is one of the better all-time coaches considering talent level and success level.
I am very anti Phil Jackson however. I think he has done relatively badly as a coach without at least 2 all stars on the team. With Kobe and Odom alone, I feel like Pop could have easily made them a .500-.600 team where Jackson suffered. To me, Phil isn’t a good coach until he is surrounded by people who don’t need coaching. Kinda like how Doc Rivers isnt a good coach either (talking about getting fired the year before they got Allen and KG and then he is coach of the year candidate…no thanks). The only thing I like about Jackson’s style is that he is great at timing his time out calls. He’s a good coach, just not great to me. Very overrated. Anyways, sorry for my Phil Jackson rant there… just ignore this entire paragraph.
This is exactly why
I have concerns about Rambis. So much of his value to people is that he coached for the lakers. Alot of rep regarding X’s and O’s can merely rub off by having really talented players on your team. I look at someone like Adelmen who lost Yao and McGrady and still made the rockets go. To me, the intangibles still point to Turner over Jackson and Rambis. Adelmen has usually been able to get pretty good production out of his players skillsets…can’t always say the same for phil. I would assume that a disciple would copy those traits…but could be wrong.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 7, 2009 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Good point
But to the Yao and McGrady part, you have to take into account the “Ewing Factor.” McGrady going down I wouldn’t care too much as a coach, he has become little more than a volume shooter with a big name. Yao hurts though, that definitely hurts. Personally, I think they just did better with a different style of offense (not running through Yao every play), but Yao being there and running this same style would have been an even greater benefit.
I am still happy about Rambis as long as whatever I heard about defense is correct! Otherwise, I would take a shot on Jackson.
When push comes to shove
I can’t help but think that if the main reason to hiring a coach is that he would be a good teacher…you might as well not. I think we have all been ruined by having McHale as such a prominent figure in the wolves’ history. The coach is supposed to be the guy who draws up the game plan that best uses his players and can show his players what they need to work on during practices to accomplish the basic game plan. Plus draw up the usual game winning/saving plays. But for the actual teaching stuff, you can get good assitants and just pay them the money they deserve. If I could do either job and make almost the same, I would take the out of the spotlight job that got me close to the money but really suited my teaching skill set.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 8, 2009 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions
I think we might be talking about completely different things now
Where did teaching come in?
sorry
I just got mark jackson stuck in my head and I started to remember all of the comments like “think of all the things he could teach flynn and rubio!” I got a little off point. Personally I think that having a coach like Turner who should be comfortable in multiple offensive/defensive schemes might be more beneficial to the team as a whole. If you can’t win a lot of games, you might as well learn alot. I understand how having jackson would help rubio and flynn…but not necessarily the rest of the team.
My order would probably go Rambis (as long as he will be around long enough to coach a complete team), Turner, then Jackson.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 8, 2009 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions
I wont complain if we hire a teacher
as long as he (she?!) teaches our players how to stay in front of their man. That would be a truly valuable lesson! As far as Jackson helping just the PGs, it’s tough to say whether or not he could help our bigs as well…it’s a whole new perspective really. Ewing has been trying to convince people that he can do more than just teach bigs, I think maybe he is right, but it happens all to often that people (including myself) fall in to that way of thinking.
I hesitate to give an opinion on Turner. If Kahn took him, I would go with it assuming he had a better idea of the kind of coach he was than myself. Again with Rambis, as long as what people say about defense is true, I’ll carry his banner. For Jackson, he is an unknown entity but always seems to give good, thoughtful analysis from what I have seen. If we take him it’s a gamble, but one I think might prove fruitful. Only time will tell!
LOL I love the She
I would pay good money to see a whole bunch of athletes (some of which are quite juvenile) follow the instruction of the she coach. That would be one more thing to check off of the things I thought that I would never see in my lifetime list.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 8, 2009 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions
As a halfcourt set
I think that the wolves will be much better to use Al as a decoy in the post as a last offensive option (could also make first if he gets better at kicking out). He just has to receive the ball in the low post with at least 10 seconds to work with it and not 15 feet from the basket w/ 6 sec left. This is our basic offensive threat. The man can just work one on one. 1. Like any team if you can get out in transition you do. 2. With Blond Ricky and J-Fly you try to hit the slashing guard/forward while Al and Kevlar try to draw out their defender. This option will get much better as the talent at the 3 improves. 3. Drive and dish to Ellington/Run the PnP with Kevlar. 4. Feed Big Al the ball with a decent amount of time left. As bad as our current roster is, they definitely have more offensive combinations that work given their skill sets than last year. No one wants to see a player not play to his strong points ala whirling dervish Miller.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 7, 2009 7:20 AM CDT up reply actions
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