Canis Hoopus: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
New Blog: The Nova Blog for Villanova Fans!

Dave Berri runs down the NBA's most over- and underpaid players based on Win Shares. Mike Miller was the only Timberwolf to make the underpaid list. Sebastian Telfair and Ryan Gomes made the overpaid list.

7 months ago Dr wyn 10 comments 0 recs  | 

Story-email Email Printer Print

More from Canis Hoopus

More Drunken Action

Feb 2010 by Stop-n-Pop - 78 comments

Jonny and Darko

Feb 2010 by Stop-n-Pop - 366 comments

Enjoy the season

Feb 2010 by Stop-n-Pop - 171 comments

Revenge on Casey's Revenge

Feb 2010 by Stop-n-Pop - 121 comments

Were you not entertained!?

Jan 2010 by Stop-n-Pop - 32 comments

Comments

Display:

That's a cool study

But how in the world do they get that Mike Miller produced 13 wins to Telfair’s -2. INHO Telfair was far better than Mike Miller last year.

Great, now Kansas City has TWO delusional GM's who think that contending in 2010 is still a possibility. Note to an NFL GM: if you win 2 games one year, dont expect signing four players whose ages sum to 141 and expect to make the playoffs the next year. Super reach for Tyson Jackson, huge contract to a QB who's still very much a question mark, questionable FA signing, why have we already given Pioli the benefit of the doubt? On the other hand, I have nothin to say about Dayton Moore, he's dead to me.

by RoyalFlush on Aug 7, 2009 1:01 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Bullpoop

No way on God’s green earth was Mike Miller worth anywhere close to $24 million. That fails to pass the laugh test.

Pining for a Troy Hudson/Marko Jaric backcourt.

by SBG on Aug 7, 2009 1:31 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

And the common sense test

Miller was appalling last season.

Only cowards pray for rain.

by Auswolf on Aug 7, 2009 4:48 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

$9.3 million underpaid for what Mike brought to the table?

I am not sure his agent would even make that argument when it’s time to re-up with the Wiz.

I am not an expert on the win-share methodology, but am wondering if Mike’s focal point in the offense post-Al injury skewed the #’s.

by Punisher#8 on Aug 7, 2009 1:32 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

To me, Wages of Wins

highly values players who get more rebounds than what would be traditionally expected at the position. I’m not saying that the stat is useless or useful—it just seems to be a common denominator of surprisingly-ranked players.

Rooting for a Rubio Revolucion since roughly 10:20 a.m. on June 24th, 2009

by PoorDick on Aug 7, 2009 3:22 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

WOW/ Mike Miller

1. The question is how valuable rebounds are in the course of winning a Basketball game. Considering you win Basketball games by outscoring your opponent on account of winning possesions. This is done two ways (Score or Stop Your Opponenent from scoring). Rebounds serve a tremendous value in that they either extend possessions or end them on the Defensive end. This is why the formula values them as such. This is why it’s considered one of the Four Factors

2. To claim that Mike Miller is a worse player than Bassy is silly. Considering Miller basically acquired RR for us. Where as Bassy’s value is part of a 3-man deal to acquire Quentin Richardson. If Bassy’s better on account of Plus/Minus- “Is Brian Cardinal better than Kevin Durant on account of Plus/Minus?”

3.Miller’s issue was surronding talent who couldn’t shoot more than anything. I think he’s a better player than Hedo only Hedo was surronded by capable shooters. The only problem with Berri’s formula is that it probably undervalues shooting volume where as most casual fans overvalue scoring.

by Jose Cordoba on Aug 7, 2009 6:50 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm still not with you.

Miller is better than Bassy, Miller is a good player, rebounds are important.

But I think what I am looking at on WOW states that Miller is responsible for ~14 wins out of our 24. That proportion doesn’t make sense at all. Apologize if I am missing something obvious, what is it?

by Punisher#8 on Aug 7, 2009 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

WOW is problematic

in that it doesn’t really evaluate defense apart from numbers and there’s no differential in shooting metrics on account of volume. Where as PER probably goes too far the other way. This is why WOW can rank Miller so high where as PER much lower.

1. Miller’s contributions were not why the Timberwolves lost 58 games. He shot a good percentage from the field, rebounded, and created for teammates. Put him in a better situation for his game where he’s surronded by shooters and finishers than he looks better. I stand by my comment he was better than Hedo Turkgulou last year. The only issue was who he was playing alongside.

2. As far as what he’s worth on the Open-Market this is hard to say. I don’t think Dave Berri would literally argue that Chris Paul should be paid 49 Million dollars a year. Berri’s point is that out of positive contributions towards NO wins- Paul is responsible for 5/6th of them. Positive contributions being defined being above average in areas that help teams win games as opposed to lose them. This is why Miller ranks high.

3. Miller probably’s worth more than the MLE. If Hedo got 10.6 Million per year for 5. Maybe Miller could get this on the Open Market with a solid enough season. I tend to think Hedo’s overpaid- but Miller had a higher TS%, better rebounding rate, and a slightly worse PPR. Where as Neither are great defenders.

by Jose Cordoba on Aug 8, 2009 7:06 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The issue with Miller

was opportunity cost. How many more wins could have Miller produced had he been willing to shoot more? None of the advanced stat methodologies can tell the true story with the ‘08-’09 Miller. But what our own eyes saw was a player that stubbornly subverted his greatest gift supposedly for the purpose of the greater good. In a year that we most desperately needed his gifts, he decides to go off the reservation. Context matters.

by Rascal Flatts on Aug 9, 2009 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Canis Hoopus is straight T-Wolves straight from Minnesota.
Start posting about the Timberwolves »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

Connect_with_facebook

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Christinagivingthefinger2_small
Casper's 2010 Big Board and Mock Draft 3-08-2010
No-seagulls_small
Fake Wolves Team Recap from the Future

Recent FanPosts

Wile_e_coyote_small
Ellington developing nicely
Smiley_twitter_small
Hollinger's NCAA PER
Christinagivingthefinger2_small
Bracket reaction (prospect matchups):
Small
Open Game Thread - Gophers v Evan Turner
Wolveslogo_small
Prowling the NBA: March 13th - Evan Almighty
No-seagulls_small
Quick thoughts on Wall, Turner, and Cousins
Franklin2_small
In Which Half are the Wolves?
Small
a rare optimistic take on the Wolves, courtesy of TrueHoop
Small
The votes are in!
Rickyrubio_small
Two Lists of Players, Free Agents, and Prospects we should look at in filling our two biggest needs, an Athletic, Shot Blocking Big Man, and an Athletic, Scoring, Wing.

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Canis Hoopus Twitter

    follow me on Twitter

    Hoopus Features

    Salary Cap Info

    Draft Info

    Player Movement Flow Charts

    EuroWatch

    Stats

    Draft Boards

    Former Tag Lines:

    • In desperate need of an epic dose of basketball Viagra
    • Your source of radical left wing politics cleverly disguised as basketball fandom
    • Palin-Free since before statehood
    • The world's leading exporter of small area quickness
    • Sorry…I have no idea who is Joe Mauer
    • Home of the Peja deep douche
    • Vote McGrady!
    • Bork, bork, bork, bork, bork
    • Wir Sind Darko

    Misc:

    Self-Promotion

    BallHype Sports Blog Rankings

    SPONSORS

    SBNation.com Recent Stories

    Charlotte Bobcats guard Stephen Jackson (1) makes a shot over Orlando Magic center Dwight Howard, left, forward Mickael Pietrus, of France and guard Vince Carter (15) during an NBA basketball game in Orlando, Fla., Sunday, March 14, 2010. Charlotte won 96-89. (AP Photo/John Raoux) +1 updates

    Bobcats Make It Six In A Row, Top Magic 96-89

    Oklahoma City Thunder forward Kevin Durant drives before passing off as Utah Jazz players, from left, forward Carlos Boozer, guard Deron Williams, guard Kyle Korver, forward C.J. Miles and forward Paul Millsap defend during the second quarter of an NBA basketball game in Oklahoma City, Sunday, March 14, 2010. Durant had 35 points as Oklahoma City won 119-111. (AP Photo/Sue Ogrocki)

    Durant's 35 Leads Thunder In 119-111 Win Over Jazz

    Boston Celtics' Paul Pierce (34) and Kendrick Perkins, left, harass Cleveland Cavaliers' LeBron James (23) in the first quarter of an NBA basketball game Sunday, March 14, 2010, in Cleveland. (AP Photo/Mark Duncan)

    Cavaliers Hand Struggling Celtics Their Third Loss In Past Four Games

    More from SBNation.com >


    Managers

    Dr wyn

    Img_2487_small Stop-n-Pop