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Around SBN: The Infuriating Jose Molina

The man has a fundamental misunderstanding of what the Wolves had last season. It's close to a conversation ender. PA does an excellent job challenging a national pundit who views the action from 30,000 feet. Hats off to PA.

over 2 years ago Journey_tiny Stop-n-Pop 46 comments 0 recs  | 

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I think Simons has a way more legit argument and PA had nothing. Kahn is already a disaster. BUT Jonny Flynn is gonna be better than Rubio, garuntee it.

by KyleMcintoshStiffarm on Sep 2, 2009 3:56 PM CDT reply actions  

Huh?

Would you be happier if Kahn had done what Simmons said: take Rubio at #5 and then trade down with the Knicks for Derozan or something. Because that way we don’t have the guy you’re guaranteeing will be better than Rubio.

by tddubb on Sep 3, 2009 4:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

Bill Simons - complete idiot

I was actually in the car and listened to this interview. I was stunned by how Bill Simmons, a “NBA expert”, sounded so clueless about the T-wolves. He made it sound like the January T-wolves were on the verge of greatness when the fact is that that were playing against a string of losing teams and/or teams with injuries. Plus, he didn’t understand that Foye is neither a 1 or a 2. Foye and Miller added nothing to this team long term and needed to be traded. Plus, the Wolves took Rubio because he was the best player available which is what a rebuilding team is supposed to do – case closed.

I don’t think that PA did a very good job in telling Simons how stupid he sounded to an T-wolves fan.

Is Simons holding a grudge against the wolves since we didn’t hire him as a GM?

by jgale on Sep 2, 2009 4:39 PM CDT reply actions  

On the Verge of

Mediocrity is what they were.

Simmons should shut up about the Wolves.

Pining for a Troy Hudson/Marko Jaric backcourt.

by SBG on Sep 2, 2009 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

No kidding..

….there were some intriguing signs (Foye played at his upper level while Love and Miller did not and they still won a few games) but ultimately they won against the 10 win GSW without Maggette and Ellis. They beat the 14-20 Bulls, 11 win Griz, 5 win Thunder (Krstic’s 1st game and pre-Thabo), 9 win Clips with no Camby, Davis, or Kaman, NOLA without West or Chandler, the 18 win Bucks w a hurt Sessions and Bogut, a 22 win Bucks team w/o Redd and Bogut, an 18 win Bulls squad, and the 22-15 Suns straight up. They showed fair improvement in OE, eFG, defG, FT Diff, pts for, and pt diff. They also played at a higher pace in January than they did in the preceding month. Despite these gains, only OReb% was in the top 1/3 of league rankings. Almost all of their other indicators landed them in the bottom 1/3 of the league; hardly above last season’s rankings and even behind them in a few (eFG being one big one). It was also their first month with above 3 wins. In other words, if you think that’s something to hang your hat on vis-a-vis blowing the team up, you probably shouldn’t be writing a book about basketball.

Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Sep 3, 2009 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not commenting on Simmons (he's a comedian), but I am still disappointed about how things played out after January.

Yes, they played losing teams but you don’t apologize for wins. Could that momentum have led to wins against better teams if Al was healthy? You can’t definitively say no.

I’m not questioning the moves afterwards, just saying it would have been nice if Al hadn’t hurt his knee so we could have seen things play out.

by Punisher#8 on Sep 3, 2009 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Al was healthy and the momentum didn't lead to wins

Weren’t we 1-6 or 1-7 in the last several games before Al’s injury? That January was a mirage.

by Bethke on Sep 3, 2009 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

Still a small sample size.

If the January record is too small a period of time to be significant, I don’t see how handful of games following it is more significant.

To be clear, I am not saying they were on the road to greatness based on January. I just felt/feel cheated after watching that group struggle, finally start playing well, and then have Al go down.

by Punisher#8 on Sep 3, 2009 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Almost as many games followed

as were actually included in the “January Run.” Point in fact, they are both small periods…but if Foye and Jefferson couldn’t light it up together anymore than they did, I doubt there would have been any consistency with the combo. Fact is, our backcourt last year was not well suited to complement our frontcourt. If you look at positional PER, the PF and C positions were the only positions to have positive net PER (or even close too). Our PG through SF positions just killed us.

by TheEvilProfessor on Sep 3, 2009 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

I get that, and reiterate that it was not a finished product.

It doesn’t really matter anymore, so I’ll stop talking about it. I’ve just invested enough time in this team over the years that it was nice to see some progression after the long KG death spiral and brutal following season-and-a-half. I would take the small positive steps last year (January wins, clutch play by Al, K-Love rebounding + getting to the line) and will this coming season as well.

by Punisher#8 on Sep 3, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

The host belongs to a station..

…that does a ton of bits and I think his bit BS detector is pretty good. Simmons does a bit with the Wolves and PA smelled it out.

Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Sep 2, 2009 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

speaking of

That was the first time in a while I’ve listed to anything on KFAN… it’s almost unlistenable what with all the stupid catch phrases. Suddenly I feel the need to savage a couple 13, 14 rubes. Sigh.

by strategery on Sep 3, 2009 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

I ALWAYS

I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS I ALWAYS

I have no problem with it personally.

by museum on Sep 3, 2009 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

I do think they need..

….to change their call letters to AM 1130 REGZA. The Toshiba bit is a tad overboard.

Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Sep 3, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

LOL

That was entertaining. Don’t think Bill will be back with PA anytime soon. :)

I actually thought they both had decent point to make. It just became a little extreme where Simmons wouldn’t admit any weaknesses to his argument.

I wish PA knew the T-Wolves and NBA just a wee bit better. He made several factual mistakes which Bill heard and noted, which made him lose respect for the cogent things PA had to say.

All PA needed to say was “Bill, look at the teams we played in January. Look at the Strength of Schedule – we played the easiest stretch of the entire season by far. Yes, we won some games, proving we weren’t in the worst 5 teams in the league, but being in that team #20-25 range is no place to be. Better to get worse now in order to get better later.”

by Django Z on Sep 2, 2009 5:27 PM CDT reply actions  

Good take on the interview.

I was listening this morning and I think PA was a little off due to the fact he was broadcasting from the MN State Fair, lots of distractions can make it difficult to pin someone down.
Your last paragraph is what he needed to emphasize. I just checked the NBA website. The Wolves played fifteen games in January and only four were against teams that ended with a winning record. Only two of their eleven wins were against winning teams. Yes, they played well during the month but it could easily have been a 6-7 win month with a tougher schedule.
The weak schedule in January was fun to watch, but artificially raised the hopes of desperate fans. Unfortunately this has also led to a lot of the bashing Kahn has received for realizing the team needed to be dismantled.

by Rumblebee on Sep 2, 2009 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

One of those mistakes...

..was not sticking to the fact that we did sign Chauncey Billups as a free agent. He let Simmons talk him into us trading for him. Not true.

by tddubb on Sep 3, 2009 4:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

PA did well

Though he stumbled on a few things, the Billups/free agents in MN thing especially. He should’ve conceded that point about our lack of attraction to FA’s and pointed out that $18 mill under the cap is $18 mill under the cap, and while we’ll certainly try to bring good FA’s here, that money can be used in other ways (re-signing Al, Love, Flynn, future good draft picks, or swinging possible trades that we otherwise couldn’t do). I liked that Simmons’ main point about January was “there were all these articles about them!” That was a dead giveaway that he didn’t have the full story, and PA hammered him there. Simmons seemed a bit frustrated at the end. I still like his basketball work, the guy knows his stuff.

by museum on Sep 2, 2009 7:09 PM CDT reply actions  

Terrible...but entertaining

15 minutes of two guys talking out of their asses…making the same two points ad nauseum.

Simmons only had two minutes worth of material, and PA should have switched topics…but I guess you’ve got to fill the airtime somehow.

I generally love Simmons, the guy is hilarious, but not one of his finer moments. PA is a tool, nothing new.

by DougW on Sep 2, 2009 7:15 PM CDT reply actions  

Regarding your "15 minutes...." line

That sort of sums up the whole debate, really. Everybody, no matter if you’re a professional journalist or just somebody on the internet, is talking out their ass a bit. We don’t know everything, and we’re making assumptions. And at least in part because of that, we can go back-and-forth making the same points endlessly without ever getting to the bottom of it, since no one can prove the other side wrong. And it’s getting old.

And don’t diss PA, I like him. The guy knows how to run an entertaining sports radio show.

by museum on Sep 2, 2009 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

But I think it was obvious that they both lacked the depth of understanding that 90% of the posts on this blog display. Both made obvious and superficial arguments which showed they haven’t actually watched many Wolves games (Simmons) or given the team much thought beyond identifying the simple talking points (PA). And then they embarrassingly made the same points over and over again.

I guess I am somewhat spoiled by having sources like this blog…I no longer need to rely on the lazy “professional” media for Wolves analysis.

by DougW on Sep 3, 2009 3:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

An PA

still sucks, unless you are comparing him to the rest of the crap on KFAN.

But that is setting the bar awfully low.

by DougW on Sep 3, 2009 3:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

You may be right about the depth of understanding

But then I’ve spent way too much time reading, thinking, and talking about this. And yet I STILL talk out of my ass plenty. I think it’s unavoidable. And if making the same points over and over again in this debate is embarrassing, I should really go find a cave in Utah and never come out.

by museum on Sep 3, 2009 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm sure I recently heard Simmons

describe Miller as having come down to the level of Jason Kapono.

Panic stations turned into happy land after we beat an inferior opposition like God wants us to.

You gotta love it when 10 minutes into the match you turn to the Hawk supporter next to you and say: "What the hell were we worried about all week?"

GOLDEN GOD BIRDS --- >>>> PREMIERSHIP HEROES ---- >>>>> BROWN AND GOLD ARMY OF TOUGH WARRIOR MEN ----- >>>>> 4 LIFE

by Auswolf on Sep 2, 2009 8:46 PM CDT reply actions  

They both made their points...

But Simmons was way off base going to the January card. PA did a great job explaining the HUGE holes in the game of Miller and Foye.

I wish he had challenged Simmons on the endorsement math. Last time I checked, KG and Adrian Peterson did/were doing pretty well with endorsements in our “small market” town.

"I'm gonna make you cry...I'm gonna make you cry and dip my cookie in your tears!!!"

by mutleyil on Sep 3, 2009 1:53 AM CDT reply actions  

Completely agreed on the last point...

…and don’t forget about Joe Mauer.

Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Sep 3, 2009 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

My favorite part of the interview..

Was when Simmons brought up Shaun Livingston. Listen to that again. He says, “It’s a risk. I mean, look at Shaun Livingston with the Clippers. He was supposed to be the franchise savior, and now he’s off the team.”

Hold on, Bill. What are you talking about? How is that in any, any, any way relevant? You’re telling me its a risk to draft players in the NBA draft. Thank you. That was a clear case of Simmons saying “I know about basketball! I bet you haven’t even heard of this guy!”

by LoveTo on Sep 3, 2009 10:51 AM CDT reply actions  

That point made me so mad

He seems to be implying that Rubio would be somehow more likely to suffer a career-destroying injury playing 2 seasons in Europe instead of 2 seasons with the Wolves. Or that if he suffered a career-destroying injury in his first 2 seasons in MN, we’d be somehow better off than if it had happened over there. Or maybe that good, young point guards like Rubio and Livingston are highly susceptible to career-destroying injuries and we should be passing him along like a hot potato.

Does any of that seem like a good take?

by John Doe on Sep 3, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

PA, Simmons and their ilk

I think this points out how little sports reporting there is. Most of what you read or hear is simply an echo chamber of talking points and personal opinions. That makes your opinion as good as PA’s or probably even Simmons’. Its a lazy man’s job and they are well compensated for doing what you might do with friends up at the bar (and with as much validity). And I truly doubt they do it in any more creative way than you might, especially in the case of PA. He is a hack. I bemoan how gambling interests (like a racetrack announcer, like PA, or tout, such as ‘Dark Star’) have become the go-to people for sports. The growing influence of gambling on sports is a corruption of why people participate in sport. It is a reflection of a society more intent on speculation rather than contribution. I believe most people are sports ‘fans’ because at one time they were participants (at some thing at some level, the type of sport or the level of accomplishment is kind of irrelevant). We enjoy sports because we remember what it was like to play the games, not because we want an edge that might allow us to win some money. We all start as amateurs. When we gamble, that is lost. Colin Cowherd on a recent edition of the ‘Sportsnation’ ESPN show was astounded that of those polled, somewhere below 50% gambled on sports. He was absolutely sure it was closer to 100%. Indicative of sports purveyors catering to a demographic that does bet (men, esp. younger men) and ignoring a much larger swath of people who just enjoy sports for the athletic competition itself. Why do ESPN and the others do this? I think it’s where they feel the most money can be made, plain and simple.

by ogishkemuncie on Sep 3, 2009 11:23 AM CDT reply actions  

I agree about why we follow sports

and it isn’t about the betting. As a matter of fact, I have a tendancy to despise those who regularly bet on sporting events as non- sports fan. We have a caller on a local sports call in show down here who routinely puts down what any of the local teams are doing, whether college or pro, but yet does not “support” any team any where. Yes I follow basketball because that is what I played growing up and my wife just doesn’t get why I follow the sport so closely. She never played any sports and doesn’t understand the passion for it or any sport.

I would like to say that I really enjoy coming here and having intelligent ( and semi-intelligent in some cases) discussion on the Wolves and peripheral items and would like to express my appreciation to SnP and Wyn for setting this up and “supervising” and all those whose insightful and thought-out comments make this sight a delight to read, respond to, and analyze my own viewpoints.

Timberwolves - NBA champs 2013!
(used with permission - Wolf in MO)

by frankenhoops on Sep 3, 2009 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Here's the deal

The Wolves played better than January. They then ran into better teams and started to shot the ball at a worse rate. The fundamental problem with this team was that it lacked shooters. So when shots didn’t fall they struggled. When shots did fall as in January- they were respectable. This was the reason- I was on the Curry bandwagon- big time.

I think keeping the pieces in place- they had maybe adding a FA or 2010 cap space- this could have been a Playoff team in 2011. This is probably less likely now that Kahn has done his thing. I’m not saying that Foye or Miller had great long-term value or that Kahn is neccessarily wrong. I’m only pointing out both arguments probably have some validity to them.

by Jose Cordoba on Sep 3, 2009 11:36 AM CDT reply actions  

My respect of PA is way up...

after that. Bill came at the interview with the view on the Wolves that a person would have if they read most NBA stories and followed box scores closely. I was impressed that PA didn’t let Bill over power him or goad him into being very negative in his attack. PA was clearly about to dump Bill when he started to repeat “Ricky Rubio will never play for the Wolves”. PA nailed the Foye/Miller trade stuff. That is where Bill was most off base (“Wolves took 3 HORRIBLE contracts back” nonsense).

I read Bill’s stuff and listen to a fairly high percentage of his podcasts even though I don’t find his take as great as I used to. He couldn’t be much worse about taking criticism.

by Pants_ on Sep 3, 2009 1:16 PM CDT reply actions  

No.

Simmons does what he does best: present controversial opinions to the masses ot get people talking. That is why he is so good at his job.

PA held his own for sure.

by WallyW0rld on Sep 3, 2009 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sorry my “no” was in reference to Simmons not talking criticism well…no he doesnt! You’d wish the guy saw an opposing viewpoint every now and again.

by WallyW0rld on Sep 3, 2009 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah.. it’s totally his schtick – criticize and mock from an unassailable position. Sometimes he’s dead on, and he’s by and large pretty funny, but sometimes he just gets a bug up his ass or is straight wrong and it’s very irritating.

Jennings: F*** the Knicks, them n***** is always going to be weak.

by Xand1 on Sep 3, 2009 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Even when he has Chuck...

Klosterman on and he’s pushed to do a little self evaluation he won’t budge on inch. Kills me when he claims to be a basketball reference because he’s written a basketball book no one has ever read.

by Pants_ on Sep 3, 2009 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

his podcasts with klosterman are great, mostly because klosterman is brilliant and is willing to have a back and forth with him about issues that aren’t strictly sports related. my favorite was when simmons refused to acknowledge that he benefits greatly from being on espn’s front page and that these benefits give him a distinct edge over up and coming writers.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Sep 3, 2009 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Another thing I didn't understand..

He mentioned, in some off-the-cuff comment about why Rubio won’t ever come to Minnesota, that he thinks Flynn will be a “top 10 point guard” by 2011. I agree with him on this.

Two issues:
1. Why, then, is he so critical of the Flynn pick? If he’s going to a top-10 point guard, and “border-line all-star” (also said that), then shouldn’t it be an awesome thing that we have him, considering the Rubio mess?

2. He said those things about Flynn. He says he has a “bromance” with Al Jefferson, calling him “the best young low-post scorer in the league.” And he’s gushed about Love, calling him an “evolutionary Laimbeer,” and “the BS Report’s favorite player.” He also had positive things to say about Brewer.

He’s apparently really impressed with the Wolves’ young core, but still says that the team is “screwed up, and is going to win 20 games for the next two years.” I don’t understand the skepticism of the team as a whole when it comes with lots of optimism about ALL of its major individual parts.

by LoveTo on Sep 3, 2009 3:00 PM CDT reply actions  

HA

All good points. Just using Simmon’s own assessments this team is basically one stud SG away with a ton of picks next year. who needs the cap space.

by Pants_ on Sep 3, 2009 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Another "B.S." talking point

He says we took on $18 million in bad contracts in the trade with the Wizards. The actual number is ~$7 million once Atkins is bought out, and it all comes off the books in 2011.

by John Doe on Sep 3, 2009 10:02 PM CDT reply actions  

Contracts

In the Wash.Trade- we took on 16 Million dollars of contracts for low-value players The Thomas trade lowers this number somewhat- due to Atkins’ option.

by Jose Cordoba on Sep 3, 2009 10:31 PM CDT reply actions  

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