Wolves to make an offer to Sessions?
by Blond Ricky on Sep 4, 2009 11:03 AM CDT
Email
PrintUPDATE: Chris Sheridan at ESPN is reporting that Sessions has agreed to sing an offer from the Wolves for $16 million over 4 years.
http://my.journaltimes.com/woelfel-world-of-sports
Bucks Sessions on brink of offer sheet?
BY GERY WOELFEL
Ramon Sessions could be approaching the end of his long and unpredictable free agency odyssey.
Sessions, a restricted free agent who wound being the Bucks' starting point guard last season after just two years in the NBA, could be on the verge of receiving an offer sheet.
Surprisingly, it might not come from the New York Knicks or the Los Angeles Clippers -- two teams that have heavily courted Sessions since the commencement of free agency on July 1.
According to some NBA officials, Sessions may wind up signing with the Minnesota Timberwolves. The Timberwolves are in the market for a guard after their top choice in the 2009 draft -- Ricky Rubio -- recently decided to play for Regal FC Barcelona.
Neither Sessions nor Chubby Wells, Sessions' agent, could be reached for comment Thursday night. Ditto for Timberwolves president David Kahn.
If Sessions does sign an offer sheet with the Timberwolves, the Bucks would have seven days in which to match it. That is highly unlikely, though.
[ed. trimmed]
Sessions would be quite affordable on a deal starting at what we have left of the MLE. $3.7 million? The timing is kind of weird given Kahn's words about preserving 2010 and getting playing time for our young guys, but I guess Sessions would still qualify as youth. It's not like we're stocked with great backcourt options. There should be minutes for both Sessions and Flynn.
252 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Um.....
Can he play off the ball?
Panic stations turned into happy land after we beat an inferior opposition like God wants us to.
You gotta love it when 10 minutes into the match you turn to the Hawk supporter next to you and say: "What the hell were we worried about all week?"
GOLDEN GOD BIRDS --- >>>> PREMIERSHIP HEROES ---- >>>>> BROWN AND GOLD ARMY OF TOUGH WARRIOR MEN ----- >>>>> 4 LIFE
Oh for an edit function.....
or quicker wits.
Hard to gripe about a guard of Sessions talent but it strikes me that we need an outside shooter and I gather Sessions is not that man. And while he provides support for Jonny Flynn, would he really want to come here to be second fiddle? Or have I got my fiddlers mixed.
Panic stations turned into happy land after we beat an inferior opposition like God wants us to.
You gotta love it when 10 minutes into the match you turn to the Hawk supporter next to you and say: "What the hell were we worried about all week?"
GOLDEN GOD BIRDS --- >>>> PREMIERSHIP HEROES ---- >>>>> BROWN AND GOLD ARMY OF TOUGH WARRIOR MEN ----- >>>>> 4 LIFE
He played a lot of 2 last year.
But, yeah, he cannot shoot.
The thing, though, is that when get an opportunity to sign a guy with talent for a shade less than $4 million, you do it if you are the Wolves. I’d like this move.
Interesting if true
I like Sessions. He gets to the line pretty well. He’s only 23 years old. The thing is, it clearly limits Flynn, which might be OK. There’s no reason to believe that Flynn is ready to step in and play 32 minutes a night. Sessions is clearly ahead of him.
Still, with Flynn, and Rubio in the background, spending future money on a starting quality point guard seems like a strange use of resources. However, getting talent cheap is never a bad thing. He doesn’t shoot threes, though, which is obviously a glaring need.
I like Sessions
and I’m okay signing him for lower dollars at the tail end of what appears to be a buyer’s market for free agents. The part about the Bucks being up against the cap and cutting costs is an added bonus. Finally, if it’s true, it’s more reassuring that this is being done when a head coach is in place, instead of Kahn flying solo.
However, if you want to see Ricky Rubio in a Wolves uniform in the next few years, this is not a good sign.
Delaying hope for a Rubio Revolucion since roughly 11:43 p.m. on September 1st, 2009.
that's not happening
until 2012 in all likelyhood. So you give Sessions a 3-4 year deal. Assuming he doesn’t drop off, if the deal is reasonable, there will always be some championship contender who wants a backup PG…easy to trade later on.
by TheEvilProfessor on Sep 4, 2009 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions
The more I think about this
the more I like it. First of all, I’ve been concerned about Kahn just punting this season. Not that Sessions makes the Wolves a playoff team, but it shows an interest in, you know, improving the team this year, which I think is a good thing.
It might be that Kahn just doesn’t see a 2 guard that he likes. The Wolves have no starting caliber 2, but there might be nobody available that they think is worthwhile. In those circumstances, getting a guy who really can play, even if it isn’t exactly the position you need filled is not a bad thing. It depends on the money, in large part. How much does this eat into the cap room for next season?
"I’ve been concerned about Kahn just punting this season."
Agree 100%. People don’t watch or attend games to sit and think about what next year’s lottery pick might be.
I would say it eats about 4 million of cap room Eric
But, that depends on how much cap room the Wolves had. According to Sham, which is probably the best salary site out there right now, the Wolves have 38 million in committed salary already.
I would submit that if the cap level, not the tax level, drops to about 53 million, the Wolves would have likely had, with their draft picks, only about 10 million in cap space anyway. How that can compete with the many teams that would have had cap room is beyond me. But, I think the Wolves made a wise decision to lock up Sessions to a low price for a few years making it easier to deal him to a team wanting to make an inquiry down the road. It also means that the Wolves can attach a bad contract (let’s say Al Jefferson if he is no longer that useful—I’m not saying anything about Al one way or the other—he’s just the biggest cap number on the Woives at the moment) to Sessions in a trade creating useful cap relief.
I don’t know. I do know that the Wolves weren’t likely to be players with so many other teams in the 2010 FA mix.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
YES!
The perfect player to back up Flynn, and a very good one indeed. I really like this acquisition if it’s true.
This tells me that Kahn
is definitely considering moving/cutting both Brown and Chucky.
by TheEvilProfessor on Sep 4, 2009 8:49 AM CDT reply actions
Maybe one, not two.
Cutting or trading both will leave us with 2 PG’s. If one gets injured, we’ll be in trouble. If both get injured… We’ll probably keep Brown as a sophomore with room for upside.
Kahn mentioned in the Rubio conference call...
That he has options for Brown and that Brown and his agent are aware of this. That could mean trade or could mean teams who’d sign him if he is cut.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Sep 4, 2009 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions
but both Flynn and Sessions
aren’t really vets. Do we really need another 2-3 yr PG? Why not trade both…sign Bobby Jackson to a one year deal for vet min? So someone can actually mentor them both.
by TheEvilProfessor on Sep 4, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions
We might be doing just that
but when does the restriction end on Atkins? It would be one of the easiest contracts to trade in the NBA right now (disregarding talent of course) so a trade could even bring back more (not great talent/potential, but more talent/potential) than we send out.
I’d be happy with Jackson back in MN
So we have a little ways to go to wait and see
I hope Kahn is a forward thinker and already trying to move Atkins to see if it’ll be worth it or if he should just cut him right now.
I think deals
can still be reached, they just can’t be finalized until 9/27/09.
by TheEvilProfessor on Sep 4, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions
Is there a deadline for being able to cut him without paying him his entire salary?
by oblivionspocket on Sep 4, 2009 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions
It says he's partially guaranteed for 760K this season
According to Storytellers. But a date isn’t given which lends me to believe the Wolves can cut him by Oct 1st or so.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
No Kidding
A highly productive 23 year old Ramon Sessions for 3.5-4 Million compared to an awful 35 year old Chucky Atkins for 3.5 Million.
The only reason- Atkins hasn’t been cut is because he hold value in a trade for another team to have this pleasure. I’m still dumbfounded that a team allegedly has interest in Bobby Brown- I’m guessing the return will be a Top 59 Protected 2nd in 2016.
Bobby Brown is a sophomore, if you didn't know.
He could become a very solid player. After (1) season, you can’t already say he’s THAT bad to be traded for a top 59 protected 2nd round pick in 2016. I know you were kidding, but he has plenty of room to improve.
The great and wise Charley Rosen...
Suggested after the McCants trade that Brown could be the team’s PG of the future. That statement cast doubt onto all of the scouting reports he’s given on foxsports.com.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Sep 4, 2009 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions
he must be under the impression that the wolves are trying to asssemble the worst team of all time
And while that might be a noble pursuit, I don’t think it’s quite what we’re going for.
by oblivionspocket on Sep 4, 2009 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Contract length is my main concern...
Nothing wrong with having two solid PGs who could each potentially play more than 25 minutes/game, but it’s not in the best interest of Sessions or the team to make this a long-term deal if they’re using the rest of their MLE.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Sep 4, 2009 9:19 AM CDT reply actions
Thinking about it further...
I’m not sure how Sessions’ presence on the team is any different than Telfair’s would’ve been. Obviously, he’s a better player, and if Kahn had made this move after the Wolves had, say, traded #6 for a future lotto pick (a big if that can’t be assumed) and kept Lawson at #18, I’d say it was a great move. Now? I just wonder whether it slows Flynn’s development and hinders the team in the sense that Sessions is still young and looking to get paid. On the court, it allows them to be a running team for all 48 minutes and increases their potential for wins to 30, but what does it do in the long run?
by pagingstanleyroberts on Sep 4, 2009 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions
Hey. It could help the team and it's not about cutting salary :).
Right, PSR, Depending on the length of the contract (ie- assuming it wouldn’t be too long), doesn’t it give us options? In a way, it’s not completely unlike the J-Flynn/Blond Ricky situation, except that Sessions is much more of a known quantity. If he develops even more, he becomes a more attractive piece to other time.
Also, as much as we want Flynn to have the best situation possible to develop, it would be nice to put a little less pressure on him.
And it appears Sessions can play off the ball, at least somewhat.
Like Eric said, I like the idea of attempting to actually make the team better now (esp. with a young player, who seemed to be coming on more and more at the end of last season). That kind of move might help to appease our more “veteran” players (eg- Big Al), who seem to be frustrated by the rebuilding process.
Unrelatedly, it will be interesting to see what the pundits say about this move, if it happens, since there’s been a lot of positive buzz about Sessions. I am guessing Kahn would get lambasted again for the 2 PG thing.
Apparently Sessions played 24% of his minutes at the 2 (according to a buddy on Rubechat), so he can definitely spend some time there. And he’s not going to hamper Flynn or Ellington. The Wolves are so thin that all 3 could get 24-30 mpg no problem, for example:
PG: Flynn (30), Sessions (18)
SG: Sessions (14), Ellington (24), Brewer (10)
Or something along those lines makes a lot of sense.
And yeah you’re dead on that down the line he’d be a great trade asset. Who wouldn’t want a 16-18 PER mid 20’s PG-oriented combo who’s making under $5 million a year? That’s fantastic value in my opinion.
Jennings: F*** the Knicks, them n***** is always going to be weak.
Ya
Sessions played 13% of Milwaukee’s total minutes at the 2 last year, and put up a net positive PER (+2.5) compared to the other team’s 2. Dude shoots a lot, but that might be OK on this team right now—who else is going to jack it up? His scoring rate per 48 isn’t bad either—something like 22.1/48 min as a SG.
My only concern is the pecking order and contract dissatisfaction—Flynn should clearly be given the opportunity to be our #1 guy at PG, with Sessions playing the Foye role last year. And while I’m concerned that Sessions will gripe about his contract within a year or two, I think that his value will hold steady or improve making him easily tradeable, and that makes this a good move.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
I wonder if Sessions will start on opening day. Flynn seems to not care about his role (at least not outwardly) and probably wouldn’t hard an issue with coming off the bench considering he’d still get big minutes. Then you can slide Sessions over to the 2 when you want a small lineup, but this way you avoid throwing Flynn completely to the Wolves (no pun intended when i wrote that, so I’m not changing it) while still giving him ample PT.
Jennings: F*** the Knicks, them n***** is always going to be weak.
Because
Sessions can actually play the 2 for stretches. Unlike Telfair.
by TheEvilProfessor on Sep 4, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions
I understand that and shouldn’t have discounted that aspect of it. I guess my larger point is it seems counterproductive to sign young player who isn’t considered a guy who’ll be around for the long term and who could potentially disrupt the pecking order in the meantime. Sessions will want more money, eventually, and the issue with him is the same issue that would’ve occurred with Foye: good player but not necessarily worth $6-7 million per. That’s part of the reason Foye was traded.
I don’t want to misrepresent my opinion of Sessions: I like him and if this is true, it will make the games more fun to watch and give the Wolves two PGs who would deserve minutes for a majority of teams in the NBA, which hasn’t happened since they had Cassell and a productive T-Hud. My point is that this could — could — disrupt Flynn’s development, and that would be different than if Rubio were here because Sessions is more of a short-term solution.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Sep 4, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions
I am posting an article on this
so you can voice your opinion there. :)
by TheEvilProfessor on Sep 4, 2009 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions
Worrying about him wanting more money eventually
leads to nullity. The same thing can be said about any player. What are they supposed to do, not acquire players because someday they are going to want more money? That’s 3-4 years from now in Sessions case. You can’t let that paralyze.
Plus, let’s hope he’s worth more eventually. Don’t we want bargains? Good players?
by Eric in Madison on Sep 4, 2009 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions
Seriously though
Foye for 3-4 years at $6-7 million per, or Sessions for 4 years at $4 million per?
Savings (assuming larger contract for Foye) = $12 million.
It’s a risk worth taking.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
huh??
Where are you getting these numbers for Foye? This year he’s playing for $3.5M for the Wizards; next year he has a qualifiying offer (i.e. not guaranteed) option at $4.8M.
A case could just as easily be made that Foye would have been cheaper than Sessions “assuming smaller contract for Foye” (… not that Kahn was interested in any case)
So, once again, more jumping to conclusions and bad math … along with a back-handed, perhaps subconscious, compliment indicating that Foye might actually be worth $6-7M per. (So far in his career he’s been injury prone so we’ve only seen glimpses of his potential; I have a nagging suspicion that Washington is not the right team for him to flourish though their coaches certainly wanted him.)
No offence personally, biggity2bit, and I don’t want to rain on anyone’s parade, but your post is another example of the rationalizing of some seriously bad decisions that have been made this off-season, e.g., dumping three starters for basically nothing, passing on DeJuan Blair in the draft, Hollins at $7M, … and, dare I say it? ..“Blount”.
Be that as it may, IMNSHO Sessions is a very good hire if it comes through. I’m just surprised that some of the other teams that were courting him didn’t snap him up earlier.
They might not work out...
But I wouldn’t call any of them “seriously bad.” An example of a “seriously bad” move is signing Joe Smith to an illegal contract. There’s a reason they took that deal for Telfair and Smith — they’re overrated because they got minutes with 20-win teams. I don’t want to talk about Rubio but it’s way too soon to call that a “seriously bad” move. Sorry, passing on Blair to take Ellington isn’t a “seriously bad” move; he’s a good player who doesn’t fit with this particular team, and Ellington has shown that he at least can be a rotation player. Giving a little over $2 mil per to Hollins is a minor risk for a player who fits with this particular roster; they needed an mobile, fast big, and he’s at least 1/3 as good as Varejao and got paid about 1/3 as much.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Sep 5, 2009 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions
a little short on the logic
It needn’t have been a choice of Blair or Ellington: remember, Kahn traded away a pick in return for one next year. I was in agreement with K-Love on draft night, and equally thought: What’s going on with all the guards?
Supposedly no good big men in this year’s crop excepting Griffin and Thabeet (I think that will be proven wrong). Anyway, I can imagine Love thinking “Where’s the backup center or do they expect us (i.e., K-Love and Big Al) to log 35 MPG through 82 games without going down hurt?” Hell, even Shaq with his enormous frame and power took the second night of back-to-backs off last season.
About Bassy and the Rhino: “There’s a reason they took that deal for Telfair and Smith — they’re overrated because they got minutes with 20-win teams.”
Come on, now… that’s just weak. Time to take a re-look at SnP’s “Benefits of Bassy” Mar. 8 or check out Rhino’s TS%. Anyway, a lot depends on who “they” are: I’m sure the Clippers were ecstatic to take the deal … as were the Wizards theirs.
Finally, sorry, but I insist: Hollins contract is overpriced. I’ve had it out with SnP over this on his initial post on Hollins and still am of the same opinion. The key point is not total salary but total salary for MPG (a new metric I’d label $AL/total season minutes). Foye’s would have come in at $3.5M; Hollins’ comes in at over $10M, assuming he puts in his career average of less than 500 minutes or 8.8 MPG. We might ask: How much will this number come down with greater playing time? Alternatively, how much do we want to give him greater playing time?
Incidentally, the error of overpaying on role players was astutely commented on by Malcolm Gladwell in his correspondence with Bill Simmons in the springtime. A great discussion on this and many other points… check it out on Simmons’ archives.
Idea
That’s not a bad idea. It might be worthwile to compile a list of players by position and the amounts paid for each minute of PT. And then maybe have another metric for production per minute or something. It might help clarify (or bogle the mind) what a GM is thinking.
by TheEvilProfessor on Sep 8, 2009 7:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Right now
We are still in Kahn’s “acquiring assets” phase. Especially when they are at discounted prices. The coaches can worry about sorting out lines and offensive/defensive schemes. There will be more moves before the season, by the trade deadline, by next year’s draft, etc. In the meantime we get to see what parts work and where.
Fantastic signing if it’s true and it starts around the $3.5 million number mentioned.
He’s not the most natural fit, but he’s unquestionably talented and would be an incredible value if the #‘s are correct. I think he’d be a very nice piece to have and he could fit in pretty well as a backup at the 1 and 2. Plus, he’s not good enough to single-handedly increase our draft stock all that much.
Jennings: F*** the Knicks, them n***** is always going to be weak.
Plus Sessions is a known quantity who can drive and finish the break, so he makes the team much more entertaining to watch.. He would be enough to give us an actual running rotation in the back court which, though it might not win a ton of games, would give us some real, entertaining basketball.
Imagine a Flynn/Sessions/Brewer threesome streaking down court looking for KLove outlets..
Jennings: F*** the Knicks, them n***** is always going to be weak.
You might've heard this, but I didn't.
David Kahn has interest in signing Rodney Carney but had to attend to more pressing matters first.
I didn't hear or see that on Carney
I hope its true. Signing Carney would round out minutes at the 2/3, is young, and should be inexpensive 1-yr deal.
Then all thats left (in next 30 days anyways) would be “pruning”, as Kahn says, Atkins, Blount, etc
by PoohRichardson on Sep 4, 2009 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, at least it'll be easy to decide on a nickname: Razor Ramon
I hate Pod Six. I don't even know why we have a Pod Six. Total suck pod.
by Kevin Loves McHale's Navy on Sep 4, 2009 10:24 AM CDT reply actions
Hmmmm
It does sound like we missed having to talk about a backcourt controversy, so we went out to find a new one. I don’t want to cramp Flynn’s style, I want him to have free reign. But at the same time, with a roster like ours that has zero depth back there, we’d probably be nuts not to do it. It’s not like Flynn is going to play 48, and if Sessions can play at the 2, that’d be good. Is Sessions going to be the backup at PG, first guy off the bench, then? Don’t y’all think he would have a problem with that? I could deal with this:
PG: Flynn (30), Sessions (18)
SG: Sessions (14), Ellington (24), Brewer (10)
I just question whether a guy who was a productive starter last year would deal with it.
Sessions would start at the point
almost certainly. I can’t see it the other way.
Look, I want Flynn to play and develop too, but let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Sessions is clearly ahead of him right now. We don’t even know if Flynn is capable of playing in the NBA yet.
by Eric in Madison on Sep 4, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions
I do think that you
will see them both on the court for at least 15-20 min a game, since they can play sessions off ball and also may want to see how flynn plays off ball. Remember, this year is still a see what we have year. I think this addition would make the wolves more fun to watch…even if they are losing.
by TheEvilProfessor on Sep 4, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Just for some info
Here are the positional PER numbers for Sessions last year at the PG and SG.
Sessions Off PER Def PER Net PER
PG 20.6 14.1 6.5
SG 16.8 14.3 2.5
That is significantly better than we got at either position last year.
Wolves Off PER Def PER Net PER
PG 12.1 19.1 -7.0
SG 15.0 17.3 -2.4
by TheEvilProfessor on Sep 4, 2009 10:39 AM CDT reply actions
Sessions played
13% of the bucks SG minutes…they were 0.5 net PER at the position for their team last year. A combo of Flynn/Sessions/Brewer would be fun to watch in the fast break. I do wonder who would gaurd the 3 though.
by TheEvilProfessor on Sep 4, 2009 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Interesting. That seems to be telling us that he’s a decent defender, which flies contradicts what I’ve heard about that part of his game. Those are some really solid differentials, especially at PG. If this goes down we could be the strongest we’ve ever been at that position.
Jennings: F*** the Knicks, them n***** is always going to be weak.
Anyone else noticing this?
There seems to be a theme going on when it comes to Kahn’s (and now, I’d assume, Rambis’) preference for point guards, this from DraftExpress about Sessions:
Sessions clearly has that natural knack for running a team, something he first displayed as a freshman. After injuries derailed his sophomore year, Sessions got back on track this season, showing major improvement as a scorer. His mark was all over this camp, and he does it with solid decision making, and a patient, probing way of making a defense commit to stopping him or stopping the pass. At this point Sessions would probably rather pull defenses toward him and use his excellent court vision to find teammates, but he is improving with the pull-up jumper and a creative array of floaters and other finishing moves if he makes his way into the lane.
Who else is a natural PG? Flynn definitely is, especially from the leadership standpoint. Rubio is, especially from the court vision and passing standpoint. In other words, this regime values and appears to be emphasizing PGs who are natural leaders and offensive creators for their teammates. What a novel idea!
What is also interesting to me is that all three offer something a little different—Sessions sounds like a plays a bit more of a tactical game, seeing what the defense will do and then scoring himself or passing to a teammate. Flynn has superior quickness, speed, and athletic ability to either break down other players or create for teammates. And Blond Ricky has vision, vision, vision and the gumption to believe that he can pull off the impossible.
It’s also interesting to note that they all offer something defensively as well. Again, from DX on Sessions:
On the defensive end, he lacks superior quickness but uses solid fundamentals to compensate in this area. Sessions uses good positioning and a tough mentality to stay with athletic guards who have more polish physically.
Flynn offers speed and even more attitude, and could become a real pest. And Ricky’s anticipation and long arms could also become a real asset.
It makes me wonder if we’re seeing the blueprint for the kinds of players this team is going to recruit—‘naturals’ for their position (or position’s demands) with a strong attitude or mental makeup. We’re seeing it in who they’ve identified for the PGs (and gotten rid of), which is telling given it’s the most made over part of the roster. We’re also seeing it on the staff with guys like Theus, Wohl, and Laimbeer joining Rambis himself. If they can assemble a critical mass of guys (players) like this, other players not necessarily known for playing this way (cough—Big Al—cough), this team might morph a lot more quickly into a hard nosed (in a Sloan type way) entertaining team. I’m not going to get into wins or loss predictions, but the attitude and personality of the team might change dramatically—even this season.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
Amen
I guess this year I couldn’t care less about wins so much as I care about style of play and swagger. I want my team playing like they know they belong and are fun to watch. Creative and Smart. I fully expect them to get bumped and bruised, but like the idea of being sound on the fundamental on the perimeter. Plus, I think Sessions could teach Flynn a thing or two about man to man d in the NBA and really accelerate his learning curve.
by TheEvilProfessor on Sep 4, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree
We keep talking about needing a veteran point, but sometimes what you really need is a player (or manager or teacher or whoever) who just gets it or sees it. Reading up on Sessions, he sounds like a guy who sees what I call the tactical side of basketball. Sessions is so effective offensively and defensively because he plays more like KLove, and not because he can just blow by people athletically. I think he might actually have a lot to offer Flynn in terms of teaching him how to maximize his abilities at this level.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
I thank a lot of that has to do with the way we are all conditioned to a typical Wolves offseason structure. For every year I have been a Wolves fan, the typical formula has been as follows:
1. Draft
2. Minor trade if any
3. Use MLE to resign a free agent or sign a clown like Mike James
4. Sign a veteran in early October for the minimum as a last second signing.
5. Rinse, Repeat
We have seen it time and time again: Kendall Gill, Hassell, Eddie Griffin, Kevin Ollie, LaPhonso Ellis. But why?
Bottom line: think about it for serious. Our backcourt is thin, do you take a cheap Sessions or a vet min Bobby Jackson??!!! No, you take Sess every day of the week. Great pickup.
Few Random Thoughts
2012 Wolves???
C- K.Love/ Al
G- Jonny Flynn
G-Ricky Rubio
G- John Wall (Fingers Crossed)
G-Ramon Sessions
It’s hard not to like this. To sign a productive young player to a reasonable contract. It’s silly to complain that we might not tank as epically if we sign Sessions- so we should keep a washed up Chucky Atkins or Bobby Jackson instead. Sessions doesn’t shot three’s as well as he could- but he’s at least middle of the road on D. He’s a clear improvement over Bassy. Kudos to Kahn- if true!!
Sheridan is reporting that it's done
4 years, $16 million, 4th year is a player option, paperwork being done now.
Hard giving up cap space, but I endorse this. Talent is at a premium, it’s not a huge commitment, he’s a good player and 23 years old.
by Eric in Madison on Sep 4, 2009 11:00 AM CDT reply actions
Four Years!
Of course we’re just reading tea leaves here, but four years suggests that there is no such thing as waiting around for Ricky Rubio. It also suggests that Khan doesn’t necessarily think Rubio is every going to play for MN. Interesting. But certainly nothing wrong with signing a talented player to a reasonable contract, even though I wish it was for fewer years, but $4 million is not even Jaric money!
I doubt that Kahn will say that...
He will probably talk about stockpiling talent at a good value and the benefit he’ll provide to a running team. And honestly, there’s some justification for that: it backs up what he said about getting good players. Also, it’s not out of the question that Sessions would get dealt if Rubio was freed up; that’s a great contract for a player like him. Also, since the fourth year is a player option, it’s possible that they did that knowing that Rubio might be here in 2012 and that Sessions would want to go somewhere else.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Sep 4, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions
The fourth year
is a player option.
by TheEvilProfessor on Sep 4, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions
I honestly don't think this has anything to do with Rubio
As Kahn correctly intimated in his press release, as an organization, they can’t sit around waiting. Get the best talent you can. Try to get better. 2-3 years is an eternity—who knows what will happen with these players? Any and all of them will almost certainly be tradeable.
We don’t yet know what Flynn is. We know Sessions can play in the league. It’s a good value for a starting caliber point guard.
by Eric in Madison on Sep 4, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions
$4 million is huge value if he continues to play at the level he’s shown thus far in his career. If he improves at all, he’ll be one of the biggest steals in the league.
Speaking of cap space, how much would this leave us with next year? I seem to recall we would have had over $10 mill, so we may still be able to be players in FA.
Jennings: F*** the Knicks, them n***** is always going to be weak.
I think he already had this deal in mind
When he told Rubio he couldn’t be thinking about him if he decided to go play for Barcelona instead of the Wolves.
by oblivionspocket on Sep 4, 2009 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Seems like a good deal
With the cap space they have and the money problems throughout the NBA, I think the Wolves will be able to do a few more of these deals the next couple years.
the way I see it...
…if this goes through and the deal is reasonable, I say, good for Kahn. So much of the beginning of his tenure is changing the culture of the franchise and the fanbase. This fits neatly into it. Being aggressive, erring on the side of taking a moderate risk, injecting both talent and value into the lineup…
Plus, it can potentially show other free agents in the future that we Mean Business. Sessions must have liked what he saw. There’s a structure in place to allow him and the team to succeed. I can’t think of any other Plan B after the Rubio train wreck earlier in the week.
by Rasho Revolution on Sep 4, 2009 11:02 AM CDT reply actions
I've been interested in Sessions
since he started getting some burn at the end of his rookie campaign and started putting up an average of like 16 assists per. This could be the Rubio-esque passer that we need to get Flynn comfortable with working off the ball or at least as more of a slasher than a passer.
A lot of people made good points about him so I won’t go into anything like minutes, but I am happy to see Sessions might be here… or if Eric in Madison is correct, that he is here already!
Although
Does he strike anyone else as the type of player who would give up until a contract year came up? At least once he gets a nice contract unlike this one?
Is this based on anything in particular? I don’t know anything about him as a person, but I haven’t heard a peep about him being lacking in character.. I know he put in time with the D league (and tore it up) and worked his way up to being a productive NBA player, so that seems tos peak of a hard worker who didn’t give up. I dunno.
Jennings: F*** the Knicks, them n***** is always going to be weak.
I'll ask around for some Bucks fans and get back to you
But he always seems to have Perkins’ facial expressions and the idea that he is entitled to more (McCants ish). I haven’t seen him in too many games or too many minutes, and I definitely like him and am glad, I just feel as if he might have that attitude locked somewhere deep inside. Not that I think it will be an issue if he is competing with Flynn this year.
I think it was having to back-up Luke Ridnour
That put that scowl on his face. Scott Skiles has his favorites.
This is all about value. 4 million a year for a starting quality point who happens to be 6’3, so he’d kind of be able to play as a facilitator for Jonny. Good value.
by TheFlingerofPoo on Sep 4, 2009 11:04 AM CDT reply actions
IF we want to keep him around
he has a reasonable contract and Rubio or Flynn could eventually be traded. If we want to trade him, who doesnt want a cheap and productive PG in the prime of his career?
Lets no kid ourselves
Until Kahn sees all of the pieces that make what looks like a complete roster that can challenge for a title, he is just going to collect what he views as good assets/deals. Sessions is exactly the kind of guy a contender would want if their PG goes down close to the trading deadline…decent deal and talent. There are a large number of possibilities and that is what Kahn wants. he is simply collecting assets and 16M for 4 yrs (incl PO) is a pretty decent deal.
by TheEvilProfessor on Sep 4, 2009 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions
Why didn't Milwaukee want him?
Does anyone have a feel for why he wasn’t the PG of the future in MIL? He’s 23, he’s got good stats, good size for a PG. Sure, they have Jennings now, but they didn’t have to make that pick. Strictly going by PER, he was 13th among point guards last year. Even though the FA market is weak, it seems like the market for him should have been better, or that MIL should have been more eager to keep him as a long-term piece.
Just wondering if anyone knows about the warts, if any. On its face, this looks like a nice move by Kahn.
I thought it came down to money
It’s cheaper for Milwaukee to pay a rookie than to pay Sessions. And Milwaukee has had some success with finding PGs over the years. They had to make a bunch of difficult choices, and given the strength of the PG class in this draft I think they decided to spend their FA money on other positions. I could be wrong, though, or this could be an incomplete picture, but I think it was mostly about money.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
From the numbers being thrown around, it looks like Milwaukee is $1.6 million under the lux, so that would essentially turn a $4 million deal into a $6.4 million deal and cause them to lose out on whatever gets returned to teams under the lux. They already have a flashy youngster in Jennings and IIRC have PG depth with Ridnour, they may just choose to let him walk.
Doesn’t make sense if you consider his stats, but sometimes money matters above all else.
Jennings: F*** the Knicks, them n***** is always going to be weak.
Milwaukee overpaid for a couple players
and it’s keeping them from retaining Sessions. A max deal for Redd, and an obscene amount for Dan Gadzuric, coupled with too much for Charlie Bell, has really set back the team. They’re lucky they got out from under R. Jefferson’s contract.
Yeah, it must be the money for the Bucks. I wonder if they’re being short-sighted, though. They’ll want to replace Redd and someone like Terrence Williams could fit the bill. Then they keep Sessions at a reasonable price and all of the sudden their team may not look too bad, or too expensive. It would probably have required them to take a luxury tax hit this year, though.
I still wonder about the rest of the FA market, though. Is it really that slow, or is Sessions somehow worse than his stats? I hope it’s the former.
The Bucks SB blog
Also wishes they could figure out how to keep Sessions. Their logic for why we’d want him—capable starter/back up at PG in case Flynn needs more time. Also their logic for wanting to keep him (replace Flynn with Jennings).
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
Thanks for checking on that!
It does indicate that they think Jennings has a higher upside than Sessions, which is not surprising.
I saw some of Jennings in the SL and I have to say that he’s got some talent. Really quick and will get anywhere he wants just like Flynn, and has decent vision too. He might be a little taller and longer than Flynn, but he looks smaller because he’s so scrawny. I think he’s going to struggle to finish, at least early in his career for sure (moreso than Flynn). He does have insanely quick hands and should be a sleeper for steals and assists if you’re in a deep fantasy league.
Anyway, Jennings’ flash might turn out to be a huge boon for us. If it distracts them from a gem like Sessions who is already pretty solid (and is still young!) I think that’s awesome.
Jennings: F*** the Knicks, them n***** is always going to be weak.
Let's not discount the notion
that Sessions at this price is a nice consolation price to the ticket sellers, who now have an answer when someone says, “Why should I be any more excited about this team than I was for last year’s team?”
Look for Sessions’ picture to replace Rubio’s on the Wolves site as soon as the ink is on the contract.
Delaying hope for a Rubio Revolucion since roughly 11:43 p.m. on September 1st, 2009.
I just want to point out
that we shouldn’t discount Milwaukee from this situation yet. They can still match the offer sheet and at this price (although it isnt expected) they might. It’s also a possible strategy of theirs to say they wont to try to get teams to bid lower and then match rather than wait for teams to offer a number that they know the Bucks wont match. Just saying, its still a possibility at this price especially
I don't see why
they’d waste any money on a fourth point guard. Doesn’t make sense given what the Bucks have been doing all summer.
Someone mentioned
That it might be a sign and trade. We’ve got some pieces that Milwaukee might accept (expirings). I guess it doesn’t necessarily help them this year, but it might work.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
It means
“That’s a really good point that you just made.”
If you’re in an argument/discussion and you bring up something that the other side has difficulty refuting, then you have put the other side in a “box,” figuratively speaking. Not that you were being confrontational, but that’s just the jist of the phrase.
Delaying hope for a Rubio Revolucion since roughly 11:43 p.m. on September 1st, 2009.
Why would they sign him for expirings?
They could just let him walk and I don’t see us giving up anything of value in return
Jennings, Ridnour, Ukic
They aren’t matching.
Panic stations turned into happy land after we beat an inferior opposition like God wants us to.
You gotta love it when 10 minutes into the match you turn to the Hawk supporter next to you and say: "What the hell were we worried about all week?"
GOLDEN GOD BIRDS --- >>>> PREMIERSHIP HEROES ---- >>>>> BROWN AND GOLD ARMY OF TOUGH WARRIOR MEN ----- >>>>> 4 LIFE
by Auswolf on Sep 4, 2009 3:55 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
We all know how tremendous those three are ;-)
Jennings might be good though, we’ll see. I’d put my money on not so much.
They can also make another deal
Thus opening up enough space to match Sessions, now that his value’s been set in this market.
I will say this much though
They would have to move Ridnour and his 6.5M salary, plus another deal. They would have 4 PGs and that is too many. In order to get those deals done, they would have to give up future draft picks. I don’t see them wanting to do that. Plus, if they could have gotten rid of Ridnour to sign sessions…wouldn’t they have done that earlier? Why pay him more than Jennings or Ukic combined to only have him back them up? It just doesn’t make sense…who would want ridnour plus maybe Elson or Thomas?
by TheEvilProfessor on Sep 7, 2009 7:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Great signing
Especially since The Wolves are rarely ever players for free agents – even the minor ones like Sessions and Hollins – and its nice to see activity like that. Plus, it kind of dispells the notion, at least somewhat, that free agents don’t want to come to Minnesota.
Hollins may not have had many options but Sessions could have had a 1 year deal with NY (and presumably had other suitors if the money had been right), but decide to go with the Wolves. It’s a nice feather in Kahn’s cap.
Not to mention that Sessions is actually a legit NBA player, not necessarily some backup scrub we’re hoping blows up. I know PER’s not the end-all be-all of player evaluation, but he put up a 17.65 last year at age 23, which would have ranked him behind only Love and Jefferson on our team. That’s right – a GUARD actually producing at an above-average level might be on our team next year. Incredible!
So yeah, beyond showing us that Kahn is willing to make moves, its hows that he’s appears to be capable of spotting underrated guys and signing them to value deals. This is an amazing change from the old regime!
Jennings: F*** the Knicks, them n***** is always going to be weak.
If the Bucks
match this offer, they will not only have to pay the luxury tax for him, but they won’t get back that windfall of moneys (the tax itself) that goes to the teams that are under the tax. They won’t do that. Unless they can unload some contracts in the next few days, Sessions is ours.
by TheFlingerofPoo on Sep 4, 2009 11:52 AM CDT reply actions
Any idea on how this affects cap room?
It will be interesting to see how much we will be under the cap next year…
Just a hunch,
But it probably affects it by about 4M. In other words, whatever happens to cap space, it affects our salary level much less than it affects our talent level. Not that we were going to sign a max deal next summer anyways (probably….)
And wouldn't RR's salary
Be something like $3.5 mil? So they’re almost interchangeable for the next couple of years. . .
RR’s 1st year rookie scale number will count towards our cap space though during the summer free agency and trade period, so even though we aren’t paying him, his cap-hold reduces our cap space.
But it's the wolves we're talking about
So, the paying is almost as important as the cap space. Glen has to save up his money before he splurges again when we’re competitors.
by oblivionspocket on Sep 4, 2009 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions
I thought once
he signed his new eurodeal that the cap hold goes away. It’s only a caphold if he “could” come over. I don’t think it impacts anything else now.
by TheEvilProfessor on Sep 4, 2009 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions
I belive that to be incorrect. Essentially Rubio’s contract has a buyout next summer as well, just expensive. If this were the case, the wolves could sign a free agent up to the cap and then negotiate for Rubio, that’s circumvention as all other draft picks count as cap holds before they sign. Essentially a team would derive a benefit from drafting a Euro in a contract versus drafting an American player.
I believe the new contract
that he signed does not include a buyout next summer.
by TheEvilProfessor on Sep 4, 2009 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions
But his old
contract did. But that was canceled when he was transferred. So I believe it now comes off.
by TheEvilProfessor on Sep 4, 2009 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions
I hate to tell you wrong
But you are wrong
Unsigned first round picks are included in team salary immediately upon their selection in the draft. They count as 100% of the scale salary for that pick, unless there is a verbal agreement for a higher salary. An incident occurred prior to the 1997-98 season when Vancouver’s first round pick, Antonio Daniels, revealed in an interview that he and the team had verbally agreed to a contract starting at the maximum salary (120% of the scale amount). Since verbal agreements apply to the salary cap, the league then changed the team’s cap figure from the scale amount to 120% of scale.
Once a first round pick signs a contract, his actual salary is included in the team salary, of course.
If a first round pick signs instead with a non-NBA team, his scale amount is excluded from the team salary on the date he signs his non-NBA contract or the first day of the regular season, whichever is later. The scale amount goes back onto the team salary on the following July 1 or when his non-NBA contract ends, whichever is earlier. In other words, these cap holds are removed for players playing outside the NBA, but only during the regular season.
seems silly to me
If the hole point is that you need to account for an expected player cost and you know that you won’t be paying it this year…then it should come off. Maybe I am biased as an accountant, but we are pretty close to lawyers and there has to be an interesting story behind why they wrote it this way. The way it is constructed, it is a disincentive to sign euros. I can definitely see that getting rewritten in the new CBA.
by TheEvilProfessor on Sep 4, 2009 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions
I Disagree
It is a disincentive to draft Euro’s, but an incentive to sign them. I think the purpose of the rule is so that you don’t draft a draft pick, then wait to sign him and use your cap space to sign a free agent, then turn around and sign your draft pick once you’re over the cap. This exact scenario is why Phoenix and other teams of the past 5 years have chosen to deal lat first round picks because they wanted the cap space versus a likely bench scrub.
By doing it this way, if your Euro pick doesn’t sign by the first day of the season, you now have cap space to sign a player during the season. I believe that whether a team meets the luxury tax threshold is determined before July 1st after the season ends, so essentially although the unsigned pick counts against the cap for free agency purposes, it will never make you pay the tax.
If done anyway different, the TWolves could plan on signing Rubio say in 2011 or 2012, plan to have cap space available that summer, use that cap space to sign a free agent, and then sign Rubio, this would be deriving a benefit from having drafted a Euro versus an American player who counts against the cap until he signs.
taken another way
if you draft an american player…and then they unexpectedly sign with a foreign team…you still end up in the same situation. This makes signability an issue. You can get around this by giving the team an option to then not sign the player until after the season if they choose this route. I just think that this hasn’t taken enough of the plausable scenarios into account and planed for proper if/then avenues. That’s all I am saying. I think it is justifiable to prevent teams from playing the system to their benefit…however, it also shouldn’t impede you from operating. That way, team pick the best players period. I have always hated the MLB draft for a similar reason.
by TheEvilProfessor on Sep 4, 2009 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, can you imagine
If LeBron was the number 1 pick, then promptly left for one of those supposed $50mill/year deals in Europe?!?
If they are going to renegotiate
the CBA anyway, they need to tweek the rules to consider options like this as it is becoming more common. As basketball takes off in Europe and Asia (as Stern hopes), then there will be more players in this position. They just need to be proactive about this.
by TheEvilProfessor on Sep 4, 2009 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Good move by Kahn
And good posts by a bunch of people before I an making this one.
Just one observation that may not have been made:
Kahn woulda been dumb NOT to do this. He’s got to show some development of the team to Rubio if he wants to land him in 2-3 years, and this does that.
It also puts us in the position of being able to trade Rubio’s rights in a couple of years, assuming that Sessions and JFly are all that we hope they are.
Who knows, maybe he has read Fegan’s mind, and knows that Rubio wants to be elsewhere. By the time Rubio is ready to come over, the Knicks might actually have something to trade for Ricky, like a draft pick or 2.
Once we all get past the jilted boyfriend role (and I think we are just about past it), we are gonna see this as an excellent move in terms of flexibility for the team’s future, as well as putting out a better product for the next couple of years.
Kahn’s thinking a couple of steps ahead of me, and maybe a most other people as well. Good for him.
Nononononononononononononononon.
No.
I will make this my season-long mission if I have to: just say no to J-Fly.
Jennings: F*** the Knicks, them n***** is always going to be weak.
you could always
just stick with the change of “Jonny…Jonny…Jonny!”
by TheEvilProfessor on Sep 4, 2009 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions
I’m brainstorming something to do with Flint, but I haven’t hit the magic combo yet.
The firestarter just seems too long to catch on.. but c’mon.. Flint and tinder creates fires.. Jonny Flynn creates.. lots of stuff. Work with me here guys!
Jennings: F*** the Knicks, them n***** is always going to be weak.
The FLYing Headband?
He needs to bring that back.
How about
Blaze? I just get images of Jonny Blaze bike tricks in Ghost Rider. He did electrifying things…and could start himself on fire.
by TheEvilProfessor on Sep 4, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions
His nickname at 'Cuse
Was Jonny Upstairs. I like that. Why do we need to reinvent his nickname for the NBA?
Remember Johnny "Blood" McNally...
an old NFL player, very colorful. I always thought Johnny Blood was a great moniker. Maybe we have another Jonny Blood on our hands.
Naah, wouldn’t work. Some other names are good.
While I respect Xand1’s position, JFly is really fast to type, flows off the fingers. Hard to fight that.
Agreed
Let’s just let it roll. Should make him feel right at home.
by TheEvilProfessor on Sep 7, 2009 7:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Stats
For those who haven’t had a chance to check, you might be surprised by Sessions’ per-36 numbers:
16.2ppg
7.5apg
4.5rpg
2.5TO
1.4 steals
The kid can play.
Jennings: F*** the Knicks, them n***** is always going to be weak.
Yeah, I like Sessions
it seems like he’s an outside shot away from being one of the best PGs in the league. I don’t know if he’ll ever develop that, but even if he doesn’t, he’s a bargain at 16/4.
Beautiful Signing by Khan!!!!!!
Sounds like This just sealed Rubio’s fate..so long Ricky.
Um...
I’d still like to see Ricky come over in two years. I have no problem with us stockpiling valuable point guards, as long as we’re also looking at the 2 and 3 over the coming seasons.
It will be three
and Sessions may not even pick up his 4th year option.
by TheEvilProfessor on Sep 4, 2009 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions
This is how Khan and Rambis are going to run the two Guard offense.
C – Al
PF – Love
SF – Gomes/Ellington
SG Sessions
PG Flynn
I love this offense
Ellington at SF would be too small
That being said, Ellington will still be a tremendous player at SG in an up-tempo style from what I have seen (summer league) and heard (Rambis/Kahn interviews). Brewer would be a tremendous addition to up-tempo basketball over Gomes if he can prove he deserves it!
You know who hates this signing the most?
Portland.
33 year old Andre Miller at $21 million/3 years versus 23 year old Sessions at $16 million/4 years. Dare I say it, did Kahn just get one over the almighty Kevin Pritchard?
Beginner’s luck! The Timberwolves can’t do anything right! Sessions wants a bigger market but his agent is making him do it and he’s going to demand a trade!!!!!!
Jennings: F*** the Knicks, them n***** is always going to be weak.
I think you are right...
He wants a big market like OKCity, or Portland, or maybe Indianapolis or SLCity — lots of sponsorship deals there, like for old age pills from Lilly Pharma, or singing gigs with the Mormon Cabernackle Twire.
Portland will start loving it
When we trade them the rights to Rubio for Fernandez, Outlaw, Joel and picks . . . Just sayin.
by TheFlingerofPoo on Sep 4, 2009 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions
I really wanted Sessions in terms of raw talent, but for the next 2 years the veteran experience Miller brings to stabilize the offense is worth more. After that, it’s Bayless or bust and restarting. Congrats on a great deal for the closest player to Chris Paul on ball-screen action.
There's Gotta Be More To Life
Let's face it
from the blazer’s perspective, they needed the experience for a playoff push. The wolves on the other hand are in the talent acquisition phase..makes sense all around.
by TheEvilProfessor on Sep 4, 2009 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Everybody’s happy, yay!
Seriously, good luck to the Blazers. I think Miller will serve you will – he’s always been one of my favorite players to watch (love his post game!). While your overeager fans can irritate me from time to time, I always root for the team because I understand the excitement 100% and hope the Wolves will be in a similar position before too long. That and Portland is a great city.
Jennings: F*** the Knicks, them n***** is always going to be weak.
Well
Al is probably going to be in the blocks, and Love is probably going to be in the high post or weakside, so what’s it matter what they call them?
It's official...
The Wolves announced it on their site.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Sep 4, 2009 12:58 PM CDT reply actions
Love that deal for the Wolves, that's a great price for Sessions
While playing Flynn and Sessions at the same time against any physical SG is very difficult with Sessions not able to shoot from outside, you now have three great PG options for the future. With Rubio, Sessions, and Flynn, it’s next to impossible that none of them is an elite point guard for the next decade.
There's Gotta Be More To Life
Great!!!
The complaints about setting this team’s time-table back seem like a stretch considering he’s 23 years old. I also have no regrets due to Ricky possibly deciding he might want to play in the NBA. Kahn took advantage of the 2009 FA-Landscape to land a productive player who would have surely gotten more next summer.
More Sessions
Sessions is a tremendous upgrade over Bassy. He’s a medicore defender as evidenced by his numbers at BBR- but compared to the Wolves Perimeter Crew last year- he’s Micheal Cooper. It’s not even worth addressing how much of an upgrade he is over Chucky Atkins or Bobby Jackson.
Loving this signing
Great move by the Wolves. Sessions is only 23 and is only going to get better. He’s great at getting to the rim and is a solid facilitator. This a value deal that will pay off big time for MN.
Sessions.....
is a god signing. I thought we were trying to get him but Donnie didn’t think he was that much of a difference to interfere with our plans for next summer when there will be at least 7-8 superstars available. At the end of the day….Sessions is a great player. He can pass, create his own shot, create shots for others, get to the rim and get to the line. His jump shot sucks big time though…as does his defense but the kid is young. I think Kahn did this to try to smooth things over with the fans that were and still are upset about the Rubio situation.
FYI….Sessions will not be backing up Flynn. It’ll be the other way around. Flynn isn’t even close to Sessions right now IMO.
was probably assured he's the starter
Gotta be. Adds value to the relatively small $$$. And good for bringing Flynn up to speed.
Thanks for actually leaving something worth reading
It’s nice to get a perspective from another team’s fans if it is isn’t obnoxious and borderline harassment.
That being said, who do you think the Knicks are going after in terms of a long-term starting PG? Duhon is obviously only temporary and he is getting older. Or do you think they will stick with some temporary fills this season and maybe the next until something better comes along?
Sessions isn't that bad a defender-
http://basketballprospectus.com/card.php?id=sessira01
He’s at least medicore. As far as his jump shoot-if he had one- he’s probably receiving twice as much per year. I do think you’re right that Sessions is better than Flynn although I think they’ll play together quite a bit.
His mid-range shot is decent, his shot just doesn’t extend to the three. The good thing is that a) he once had that shot in college and shooting can be developed and b) he knows he isn’t good at it and limits his attempts a lot so he doesn’t become some unconscious chucker.
There's Gotta Be More To Life
If it's okay with you
I’m prolly gonna steal the name “Unconscious Chucker” for use on some other boards.
Or even this one, to agree with and recommend the comments I make under “PoorDick.”
Delaying hope for a Rubio Revolucion since roughly 11:43 p.m. on September 1st, 2009.
by PoorDick on Sep 5, 2009 12:07 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
That sounds SUPER funny,
and I can’t wait to see it!
by Unconscious Chucker on Sep 5, 2009 12:25 AM CDT up reply actions
The original Unconscious Chucker? Jimi Hendrix.
I hate Pod Six. I don't even know why we have a Pod Six. Total suck pod.
by Kevin Loves McHale's Navy on Sep 5, 2009 12:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Booo thumbs down
Or is it enough after everything happened that its ok now?
I'm ashamed of myself
for how much I’m laughing.
For my penance, I’m headed over to BlazersEdge to ask them if they would trade BRoy to the Wolves for the rights to Bobby Brown.
by Unconscious Chucker on Sep 5, 2009 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Sorry guys.....
I meant to say a good signing…..check this out. This is what one of our blogs here in NY said about Kahn. Remember I’m not trying to start no beef with anybody here I’m just sharing one cities basketball news with another. I also want you guys to tell me if you think this is true. I love the blog where I got it from and I visit the site on a daily basis….along with about 2 others.
“So let me get this straight.
You trade two starters to move up to the 5th pick in the draft.
You draft Rubio with the 5th pick, a player who you know is temperamental about where he sees himself playing, along with the notion that he has to earn enough money to buy himself out of his Euro deal.
You get him excited about the prospects of being a lead and starting NBA guard for about, oh, 4 minutes, then pick the next best point guard, immediately infuriating Rubio’s camp instead of filling a need with another position player (Stephen Curry) who can get your fanbase excited for years to come.
Then you tell the media the two point guards can play in the same backcourt together and you expect them to.
Like a new car that is about to be driven home Rubio’s trade value, which was a major reason to draft the kid, isn’t any higher than it is now, yet you don’t pull the trigger on a deal and Rubio stays home to live in his parent’s basement.
Then you sign ANOTHER point guard to compete with Flynn for the next four years?
Wolves fans, you better hope that Mr. Kahn gets proper value when he ultimately trades Rubio.
At the end of the day, if the Wolves were hoping that Kahn would come in and bring solace to a rocky organization, then you can’t be overly comfortable after his first off season."
Man those guys are bitter. I guess I would be too if I was faced with the prospect of watching the Knicks every year..
Realizing that a team is up against the lux and can’t afford to sign it’s promising yet young PG and making an aggressive signing is in no way or world a bad move. Kahn played this brilliantly and it will most likely wind up in the Wolves getting a huge steal.
Jennings: F*** the Knicks, them n***** is always going to be weak.
Sure, ultimately the Wolves might end up trading Rubio (or at least one of those 3 pretty sure)
But why not start collecting good players now when they are available, and decide who it is later. The urgent need was finding two players for the guard rotation which has happened now if the Bucks don’t match, and not OH QUICK RUBIO DOESN’T COME OVER SO TRADE HIM TO THE KNICKS FOR THEIR JUNK AND A PICK as some members of the media and fans insinuated.
There's Gotta Be More To Life
There are so many assumptions in that piece
It’s hard to know where to begin.
1. Rubio’s trade value could certainly increase in the next two years.
2. Why is competition for a starting role a bad thing? If Sessions and Flynn do compete, they both have to up their game, and everybody benefits.
3. I don’t know if Rubio’s camp was “immediately infruiated” by the Flynn pick
4. You can’t complain about us saying we’ll play two point guards and then complain about us signing a third point guard once one of the original two left the fold. If that’s our strategy, then it makes perfect sense.
5. No one expect Kahn to immediately bring calm. Blowing this thing up was always going to be the first move.
4. You can complain
If a team from Hoth takes all the PG you wanted for your own team, but couldn’t get because you whittled away all your assets in a desperate attempt to sign Lebron James and return to relevance.
Why would they want LeBron?
They already have a young SF in Gallinari. And having two good players at the same position? That would be madness! It would crush Gallinari’s development! If you were hoping Donnie Walsh would bring sanity to the Knicks organization, you can’t be overly comfortable…"
sniff...sniff
what’s that I smell…irony? Hey, I know you!
by TheEvilProfessor on Sep 4, 2009 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions
DaJoka..couple points
1. Not sure if Rubio is anymore tempermental than any other 18 year old. Wisdom and rationality take a long time to develop. An example is Billups, on talent alone he is slightly above average…but he keeps a level head on him and makes the most out of what he has and doesn’t seem to make a big deal out of anything. This is a learned trait.
2. Curry wants to be a PG…not a SG. This has been repeated often, but noone seems to let it sink in.
3. With a clause in the CBA that allows for a larger deal after three years, Rubio will come over in 2012. I say come over because he may in fact not play for the wolves, but in order to come play in the NBA, which I believe he really does, he has to come through us (when a deal is right for us…not just him). At that point, Session’s has a player option on year 4, which he may not exercise making the 3 PG problem moot.
4. Sessions can also play spot SG, which is ideal for Kahn to see if he can actually play 2 PG at the same time. You know…perhaps provide some facts to show Rubio (if he does come over to play for the wolves) that a 2 PG system works on occasion.
5. At worst, we have a pretty talented PG signed to a decent deal (largely because no one wanted to sign him over waiting on someone like Lebron, who we knew we weren’t getting anyway) that can be used as trade bait to a championship contender with an injured PG at some point in the future.
So considering we weren’t contending this move makes a lot of sense for us. On average it wouldn’t be wise, but for our position it isn’t nearly as bad as that site makes it seem.
by TheEvilProfessor on Sep 4, 2009 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions
About the Curry point..
It was widely accepted until the Wolves took Rubio fifth. All of a sudden, he’s a great shooting guard now!
There are plenty of minutes to go around
Bobby Brown and Chucky Atkins need not see any if we are lucky.
Thats 48 minutes at PG and 48 minutes at SG (or PG2 as Kahn likes it). There are plenty of minutes for two young guys. We are looking to run which I assume means we will. That means we want a fresh PG in the game at all times, so I foresee a lot of substitutions between Sessions and Flynn the second they start slowing down. Rubio is a moot point for 2 years. It’s like we get a free top 5 draft pick in 2012 in addition to whatever we get then.
Also, there is no reason to trick ourselves into thinking that Flynn will come in and immediately be a starting caliber PG. Yes, he will, more or less, be given free reign, but that doesn’t mean he will come in and be Chris Paul right away like it sounds like we here are expecting. Just because we talk about how he will be good doesn’t mean we don’t see the realistic side of things. He is a rookie and as such, he will need plenty of time to adjust and become familiar with his new friend “The Rookie Wall.” No, no relation to John Wall
I like it as "sing"
So I can pretend it’s part of some mythical “Timberwolves: The Musical” stage production:
CHORUS: “Offer sheet, offer sheet,
Ramon alone cannot be beat!”
RAMBIS: “He’ll help inspire our Wolfy family.”
KAHN: “He won’t require our ’09 MLE…”
If it wasn't for disappointments, I wouldn't have any appointments
by Jackdaw on Sep 4, 2009 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
My idea of the Ballad of La Pistola sounds straight out of this bad boy. Picture it now: the curtain rises to reveal a dim stage stage set up as Ricky’s room. The spotlight illuminates an obviously torn young man who begins to sing about how he just wants to play basketball but must now make a life-changing decision that is infinitely more complicated than he anticipated. It could be a parallel plot line to the Wolves and their struggles in MN, complete with cameos by Fegan, Kahn and Jordi Villacampa as the villain.
I think we’re on to something here.
Jennings: F*** the Knicks, them n***** is always going to be weak.
And Jonny Flynn
rises against all odds to defeat the Timberwolves’ enemies night in and night out to save the day when Super Rubio was stuck in Spain. Then it ends with all of the TWolves fans realizing that Flynn was the real hero all along!
The goal for the Wolves right now
is to aquire assets. Especially young assets that show potential to get better – regardless of position. I’m sure Flynn and Sessions will both get plenty of time on the court this season. Just like Jefferson and Love.
The Last Thing
I want to do is go forward worrying about appeasing Ricky Rubio.
Ricky's just an asset now.
He’ll play if that’s what’s best for the team (eventually), he’ll be traded if that’s what’s best for the team.
Moving forward with the guys who are here. With the quick trigger on this move, it looks like Kahn & Co were working on Plan B all along.
Kahn is dealing so much right now, it’s impossible to tell what moves are temporary and what moves are long-term.
I’m glad (if we keep him) that we’ll have more backcourt talent, this year. The games might be really hard to watch if it’s J-Fly and Ellington back there for 30+ minutes. We’ll be a lotto team with or without Sessions, but it’s clearly going to be prettier basketball with a proven point guard that can also play some off the ball.
I read that Houston are looking for a non-guaranteed deal to acquire
Chucky for Brent Barry + James White works.
Does Barry have any one season value for us?
Panic stations turned into happy land after we beat an inferior opposition like God wants us to.
You gotta love it when 10 minutes into the match you turn to the Hawk supporter next to you and say: "What the hell were we worried about all week?"
GOLDEN GOD BIRDS --- >>>> PREMIERSHIP HEROES ---- >>>>> BROWN AND GOLD ARMY OF TOUGH WARRIOR MEN ----- >>>>> 4 LIFE
short answer
no. How long do they have on their deals? It would have to include picks (plural). What a waste of roster space.
by TheEvilProfessor on Sep 4, 2009 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Barry is a $2m expiring
White is due 825k this season and $1m in 2010.
Barry has some size and shot; could he not play 10min a night at the 2?
And that deal is actually the lowest amount of money we could take back on salary matching
Panic stations turned into happy land after we beat an inferior opposition like God wants us to.
You gotta love it when 10 minutes into the match you turn to the Hawk supporter next to you and say: "What the hell were we worried about all week?"
GOLDEN GOD BIRDS --- >>>> PREMIERSHIP HEROES ---- >>>>> BROWN AND GOLD ARMY OF TOUGH WARRIOR MEN ----- >>>>> 4 LIFE
Not too bad then
but I still think Kahn can do better. Maybe to NO, SA, Orl or someone. Take back one bit player with an expiring and a draft pick?
by TheEvilProfessor on Sep 4, 2009 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, unless we are getting a recent first rounder who just doesnt fit
I want a draft pick otherwise we might as well save the money ourselves. The 2M we could save just isn’t worth getting a guy like Barry for a year. We could cut Atkins and sign someone for veterans minimum and come out further ahead.
From an outside perspective… this is an awesome asset acquisition. Sessions is at least a very good backup point guard for the next four years… that’s if he regresses a little. He’s a good player.
Fair warning, though: Sessions and Flynn is not an effective backcourt combination. On defense, any kind of big shooting guard would just punish Sessions or Flynn. Offensively, teams could sag off both point guards and diminish what they do best: getting into the paint. If both guard defenders sag into the lane, there isn’t much room to operate.
The point guards that can’t shoot well need to be in a backcourt with a good shooting guard: Rondo with Allen, Parker with Ginobili/Mason, etc.
I’d like to see an even split of the point guard minutes next year… minimal time together hopefully.
"If the Lakers are Hollywood, then we are South Central." - Clipper fan.
Draft Picks
Kahn’t we pry NY unpprotected #1 from Utah. Take AK47 and ? for Atkins and expirings? Pretty please? Give them back they’re pick, include gomes? Please.
I don't think we could get AK47 for expirings
and definitely not the Knicks pick on top of that. It would be nice though and I would do it in a second. I would be happy trading Kirilenko for expirings even without the pick just because I don’t think we will get much in FA next year anyways and he is done the year after. He also needs a change of scenery and could benefit from being anywhere but Utah. Would he like up-tempo?
That pick
Is almost guaranteed to be in the top five, and it’s Utah’s ticket back to being a contender, especially considering how stacked the 2010 draft looks from the top. Barring a blow-you-off-your-feet offer, they’re not moving it.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Haha
Well lets not discount the Knicks too much. Obviously they are not a good team by any means, but top five means you are “almost” guaranteeing they are on of the worst 2 teams in the league! They have D’Antoni as a coach so I don’t know if thats the most realistic assumption. Yes, they are godawful, it’s true, but they have a couple pieces which could help them move up if they develop.
First, David Lee and KryptoNate returning could be nice. Then they have Duhon (who did exceptionally well under D’Antoni), Jordan Hill and Tony Douglas (who could turn out to be quite the NBA ready PF/PG, but I wouldn’t give either of them much upside), Curry (who is supposedly getting his body under control again), Chandler (who is a steady presence at the 3), Harrington (who brings a certain amount of consistency to the table as well), Hughes (who is a pretty good shooter/overall player when healthy) and Galinari (who could finally break through the Euro barrier). Obviously these are a lot of ifs and assumptions, but the Knicks could be a .400 team this year, especially if they somehow snag someone for a sign and trade with David Lee and Nate Robinson (unlikely).
Per above, that's extremely optimistic
The Knicks benefited from several weaker teams in the East (Toronto, Washington) last year, and as far as the totem pole goes in the East this year, they’re clearly the second-to-worst team in front of New Jersey. The team is basically the same with the exception of Hill, a project who has a lot of development in front of him and was only drafted so high because of the lack of big men in the draft, and Douglas, a decent defender who shot extremely poorly in the summer league. Curry isn’t going to give any level of consistent production, Harrington is a one-dimensional gunner, Hughes is downright awful, and Galinari has a lot to show for his draft status. Given the increased competition in the East, they’ll struggle to win 30 games.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
You are right, I am being overly optimistic
But that’s what was called for when the other side was being overly pessimistic. Yes, as I said before, the Knicks are absolutely godawful and the only way they will contend in the next 5 years is if someone (or someones) actually sign with them next FA, they wouldn’t if they are smart but D’Antoni will be enough to convince someone.
As I said lower down though, Harrington is a pretty efficient shooter and has a lowish TO%, his only huge knock is his rebounding and his defense is suspect. As I said, I don’t think either of their rooks have much potential but I think both of them will be ready to contribute this year (as backups obviously). I wouldn’t bet money on Galinari panning out, but he does have some potential left and this could be his year. With Mike coaching the team, they could be a middle of the road team. They did win 32 games last year and I don’t think they have gotten that much worse.
Could; probably not though
It’s less how much they stayed the same and more how the East in general improved. Toronto and Washington are going to be miles better than their dismal performances last year; Charlotte stayed roughly the same and has the benefit of an entire year of experience under Brown; Indiana marginally improved with a bunch of C-level free agents and could have internal improvement from Rush and Hibbert; Detroit should perform better than last year after refitting with Gordon and Villanueva; and Philadelphia has too much talent to not reasonably contend for a playoff spot.
Yes, D’Antoni definitely improved the Knicks from the previous disaster year under Thomas (23th in offensive efficiency to 17th; 29th in defensive efficiency to 23rd), but that’s enough to get New York any traction in a stronger East.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Most of your arguments for the other teams
could be used for NY: One more year under D’Antoni, internal improvements, addition of (kinda) NBA ready players through the draft, and (my personal favorite) NY is going to be miles better than their dismal performance last year. I know, a lot of thought went into that last one as I’m sure it did with your assertion too… I mean, we can all assume that Arenas and Haywood will come back completely healthy and better than when they left. We can also assume that the 33 yr old Jamison will hold up and not deteriorate whatsoever. And of course Randy Foye, Nick Young, Andray Blatche, and JaVale McGee will have their breakout seasons this year. Aren’t we being a little overly optimistic here?
Not at all
Comparing Washington and Toronto to New York is apples and oranges at this point, namely because Washington and Toronto have such higher ceilings. For Washington, when the players coming back are an All-Star caliber player and a good defensive center and the two incoming players are solid rotation players, it’s much easier to see where improvement comes in. There’s much more margin for error. Same for Toronto with all their additions; granted, they’ll struggle to defend against anyone, but it will be hell of an offensive team. Predictions that center on the middle ground between overachievement and underachievement are usually correct, and given the degree to which Washington and Toronto can overachieve, it’s extremely doubtful they’ll be worse than New York will be next season.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
K
But injuries happen…. especially to guys who are oft injured and old (strange concept I know) and Washington has some of those guys, namely their superstar.
Also, I see you ignored every comment I made where I was actually arguing the point more than being facetious. Well done.
If you wish, then
Hill is a project with limited skills that was taken high because of the lack of bigs available in the draft, and Douglas has a long way to go before cracking an NBA rotation. His dismal shooting numbers in summer league weren’t particularly encouraging, though his defense will be helpful for a squad like this. Internal improvement under D’Antoni beyond Gallinari is doubtful considering what he has to work with. There’s only so much he can do with the limited personnel he has, especially considering that Walsh will probably flip a good portion of the roster in search of 2010 cap space.
As for the roster, Duhon is a backup that was overwhelmed by the starter’s minutes assigned to him; Hughes is the only true two on the team, a dismal prospect considering his wayward shooting and defensive woes; Chandler is passable but not terribly efficient; Harrington is a gunner and poor rebounder; Darko plays hard every one game in three or so and has been continually disappointing; Jeffries is awful; and Curry obviously isn’t going to produce anything until he gets in shape. The only two bright spots are that Lee will likely have another 19-20 PER year with great rebounding numbers and Gallinari will probably improve on a lost year.
That motley bunch isn’t getting past anyone in the East save perhaps New Jersey next year. Even if Washington loses a major player or two for a significant stretch, they’re still going to win at least 35 games, which is more than can be said for this squad.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Your guess must be based on
all of their internal improvement about to take place? Cuz last time I checked, just about everyone on their team that plays significant minutes is on the downside. Nick Young, Andray Blatche, and JaVale McGee just aren’t going to be able to make up for an injured Arenas and Haywood; aging Butler, Jamison, and Miller; and no draft picks to boot. I’m predicting a troubled year for Washington again and that prediction that you are about to complain about is no worse than your for NY.
Your analysis about Duhon, Douglas, Darko, and Hill is complete conjecture based on absolutely nothing except for your own opinion. And as I have already said, Curry has supposedly gotten his act together a little and lost some weight…still not gonna help much, but he could get there.
great value for sessions, but the question remains: who is going to shoot the basketball? still time to address that, and you have to feel good about sessions for that price, but adding another guy with no jump shot makes it all the more obvious that the wolves are absolutely devoid of shooters. never thought i’d say it, but you guys might have messed up by trading q.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
Don't count out Gomes
He’s at least at “can make open jumpers” level. And I do think Love’s jump shot will become effective when coming off of screens he sets for Jonny Upstairs (it’s catching on) and Sessions.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Sep 4, 2009 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Has.......
it even crossed anyones mind that the Bucks might match this?
Wait.....
Ben R…do you even watch the Knicks or are you making assumptions?
To sit here as a Wolves fan and try to talk about the Knicks is crazy!!!
Gallo has a higher ceiling than anybody on your team maybe with the exception of Jefferson. Chandler is a better defender than anyone on your team. Douglas is a decent defender? Did you even watch him in college? He earned ACC All-Defensive Team honors again and was selected to the All-ACC First Team. His other major honors included being named the ACC Defensive Player of the Year, receiving the second-most votes for ACC Player of the Year. You do know what the ACC is right?
Harrington and Nate are better scorers than anybody on your team.
I can’t lie though..I can’t wait to see Flynn and Nate go at it. Even though Nate is better right now it should still be interesting. I could be wrong but I thinkwe played you guys last year early in the season and Nate had like 26 pts and 10 rebounds. Keep sleeping on Nate.
i’m not holding my breath on gallo, but i can see why a knicks fan might be optimistic (blind fan loyalty).
college doesn’t always translate directly to the pros and defense takes a while to learn at the next level. calling douglas a decent defender before he’s played a single nba game is a lofty compliment. he’s also 23 years old, so he better be dominating his competition at that level for him to even be worth a look in the nba. he’s also a combo guard with mediocre athleticism, so sorry for not being too excited about him setting the world on fire as a pro.
harrington is an average scorer who shoots a lot. he brings almost nothing else to the table. he’s a poor rebounder who doesn’t pass and turns the ball over pretty frequently.
i do like robinson, but if he and david lee are your two best players, you have a bad team. a really bad team.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
Check your facts on Harrington
He has actually taken pretty good care of the ball in the latter stages of his career. He’s also a pretty good scorer considering the fact that he also spaces the floor (check advanced stats, not his per game stuff). You are pretty spot on about the rebounding, but Lee isn’t a chump on the boards.
i was thinking of his a:to ratio, which is pretty bad. considering that he never passes, he turns the ball over a fair amount.
his ts% was much better last year than it has been for his career and was still just barely above average (average is around 54%, he shot 54.7%). he does space the floor, but considering he’s a much better sf than pf, that’s not that unusual.
i would never disparage david lee’s rebounding, just saying that if he’s your best player, your team is probably bad.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
I'm not too concerned about a:to
For a forward.
He had the best year of his career under D’Antoni? Weird.
Agreed, but right now (if you go by David Kahn’s rationale of needing a 1-2-3-4-5 pecking order) New York is made up of 4-5-5-5-6, with some luck, they could end the season with a 3-4-4-5-5. Still by no means winning a championship, but middle of the road. I am not saying by any stretch of the imagination that NY is a good team and I would want to cheer for them to win, I’m just saying that it’s tough to right that pick off as a guaranteed top 5 pick (pick… not team)
i wouldn’t guarantee a top 5 pick for them either. i went with top 8 when i shook my magic 8 ball. bottom 5 teams in the nba? that seems pretty close to a lock, but things happen. an injury to an important player on a bad team can be pretty devastating, so they might not be there as of the season’s end. but right now, they are probably just ahead of sac and nj with little hope of passing more teams.
unless of course, gallo plays like an all-star this year.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
Agreed
I wouldn’t put them much higher than the top 5 teams, but I think they will be just outside of it come year end. Possibly with the TWolves inside of it if the injury bug bites again. New York is pretty well hedged against injuries though because no one guy would devastate their team like most others (ex. Arenas, Big Al, Wade, etc). Let’s just say I wouldn’t be too surprised if they got closer to the 10th spot.
He's not a Wolves fan...
Check where he posts most often. As for that 26-point, 10-rebound performance, it came in a game where the Wolves snapped a 13-game losing streak by hanging 120 on your D-less crew at MSG.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Sep 4, 2009 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Per above
I’m obviously not a Minnesota fan; a little research would have determined that. And yes, I’ve watched quite a few Knicks games to make informed judgments on apparently your favorite team.
And even then, with respect to Minnesota, Gallinari’s ceiling isn’t close to Love, who had awesome rebounding statistics for a rookie (third in the league in offensive rebounding rate and overall rebound rate) and posted a 18.39 PER. At best, Gallinari is a third or perhaps stretch second option for a contending team; in the more immediate future, he has a long way to go to show that he was worth his draft slot. Love has already shown he was worthy of his and more.
As for Douglas, players who were defensive stars in college are a dime a dozen in the NBA. Being able to defend players with vastly inferior skills and athleticism to NBA players doesn’t mean that he’ll instantly be a good defender on the NBA level. I’m certainly not saying that he’ll be bad — on the contrary, I was slightly upset that the Lakers traded the pick — but he has a long way to go before he gets a solid spot in a rotation.
And yes, Harrington and Robinson are good scorers, but that’s all they are. Robinson ranked 59th among point guards in assist ratio and Harrington ranked 67th among power forwards in rebounding rate. For his usage rate (eighth among point guards), Robinson’s assist ratio is abysmal, and it’s a testament to this trait that D’Antoni, normally tolerant of gunners, would comment negatively on it. As for Harrington, it’s true that he’s often away from the basket and that Lee was taking a bulk of the available rebounds, but when he’s behind rebounding luminaries such as Yi Jianlian, Matt Bonner, Glen Davis, and Andrea Bargnani, it’s a problem.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
Really.....
David Lee played out of position the entire season last year and led the league in doube doubles. Like I said before…he was top 5 rebs and fg %…his #‘s go up every year which means he works hard. For the last pick in the 1st round..I’ll take that anyday.
Toney Douglas will be fine. He’s no Chris Paul but he’s a good back up and he can spell Duhon.
Gallo like I said is a better prospect than anybody on the Wolves.
To have a 6"10 guy that can bring the ball up, shoot, find the open man and do just about everything else is exactly what every team wants. Does he need to work on his D…of course he does but who on the Wolves made the all defensive team last year?
Gallo spent his last season with Milano in the top Italian league, finishing first in the league’s overall efficiency ratings. During the 2007–2008 season, he averaged 17.5 points, 5.6 rebounds, 2.0 steals, and 1.3 assists per game in 33 regular season games and 18.1 points, 6.5 rebounds, 1.8 steals and 1.5 assists per game in 8 playoff games and remember…he was only 18 then. Compare his #‘s and Rubio’s #‘s at that age. Only reason I use Rubio is because I know alot of people here are high on the kid and I would be also. It’s just that Gallo is really slept on right now and nobody is preparing for him which could be dangerous next year. Keep an eye on this kid….the competition he played against is much much better than the NCAA.
I agree…Harrington is a gunner and he will be gone next year..as will Hughes. All together…the Knicks have like 40 something million in expirings next year. Watch how Donnie turns that into something special at the trade deadline.
I think Love has all the potential to be a great great PF/C and you already know what I think about Jefferson. I love Flynn’s game…me and my friends actually made the drive up to Cuse Country to see him play a few times and he never disappoints. You guys will fall in love with him because he has a great personality and he leaves it all on the court EVERY NIGHT!!! Like I said before…his defense or lack of will show until he figures out how to play the passing lanes in the big league. Sessions is another good player but again…on defense there will be mismatches that favor the other team.
I hate to agree with a Knicks fan...
(Or should I say a Knicklehead…)
but, i agree with what you say on Gallo. He’s got big big upside and this season I’m thinking he shows us his potential.
when you described Gallo
I have to admit that your description reads like Odom. If you want to actually convince anyone on this website of anything…you may want to stop just using the hyped up stats…like PPG, REB, etc that are sooo influenced by pace, PT and other factors that always get swept under the rug…but are actually really important.
by TheEvilProfessor on Sep 6, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Also Ben R......
You say Douglas shot poorly in the summer league but why don’t you tell us how many assists he averaged.
I’ll give you 2 hints……it was more than Flynn and it was double digit assists.
Care to take a shot at the answer?
I bet if Douglas took a shot at the answer he would miss
But I’d like to phone him up for an idea as to what he thinks the range is.
Wow Ben R.....
Where to start
“And even then, with respect to Minnesota, Gallinari’s ceiling isn’t close to Love, who had awesome rebounding statistics for a rookie (third in the league in offensive rebounding rate and overall rebound rate) and posted a 18.39 PER.”
Why are you so obsessed with rebounds. You said Love has a why higher ceiling that Gallo and then you just run down rebound stats lol.
“At best, Gallinari is a third or perhaps stretch second option for a contending team;”
If Gallo is #2…what does that make Love?
Are you saying he is a #1 option on a contending team? I didn’t think so…nobody even here would agree with that statement.
“Being able to defend players with vastly inferior skills and athleticism to NBA players doesn’t mean that he’ll instantly be a good defender on the NBA level.”
I agree all the way on this one!!!
“And yes, Harrington and Robinson are good scorers, but that’s all they are.”
Did I say anything different? Al and Nate are nothing but scorers.Al Harrington averaged 20 points per game and averaged 6 rebounds per game. What’s wrong with that for a small forward? Nate averaged 17 points and 4 assists…you talk about them like their bums.
FYI
Bargnani doesn’t average more rebounds than Harrington.
Yi doesn’t average more rebounds than Harrington.
Big Baby doesn’t average more rebounds than Harrington.
Bonner doesn’t average more rebounds than Harrington.
Where exactly did you get this information from?
Unless you was talking about those big men averaging more rebounds than Nate.
Usage rate or no usage rate….the question is, do you think any of those 4 players you mentioned above are better than Harrington?
Me neither……
Attn: DaJoka
When you are responding to someone or continuing the back-and-forth regarding some particular point of contention, please, please click “reply” rather than always posting a new train of thought (with the entry form at the bottom of the page). This will not only help keep you in conversation with the people you want to talk to, but it will also conform to what everyone else is doing here with comments. Thanks in advance.
Bargnani doesn’t average more rebounds than Harrington.
Yi doesn’t average more rebounds than Harrington.
Big Baby doesn’t average more rebounds than Harrington.
Bonner doesn’t average more rebounds than Harrington.
actually, other than bargnani, ben r is 100% correct here. it’s pretty close to a tie with bonner, but all of those guys rebound the ball at a slightly higher rate. looking at per game numbers is not useful when comparing guys who play vastly different amounts of minutes. per 36 and total rebounding percentage are much more helpful. and other than bargnani, all those guys beat harrington.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Canis Hoopus
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
