Ghosts of Wolves future...I hope
So much for a Timberwolves “off night.” When you’re this non-competitive, and have major chips invested in the draft, certain college basketball evenings become more engaging than when we send our starting 5 out for an exercise in (mostly) futility. Tonight was a prime example with the Ohio State@Purdue and Kentucky@Florida doubleheader on ESPN. They could have called it “Who Wants to be an NBA Lottery Team?” Or perhaps the more caustic “Drool over Evan Turner and John Wall, you sucky NBA losers.”
Since Turner played first, I guess he can go first here too. In the interest of full disclosure, this is the first time I’ve seen him play over the course of an entire game, so my opinions are largely based on what I saw tonight. I just didn’t have much time for college hoops last year, and he’s been hurt this year (but appears to be TOTALLY healthy now, BTW). I’d seen bits and pieces of him before, but tonight was quite a show. A big nod to Rumblebee for his in-person scouting report from a few days ago, as it gave me a great idea of things to look for.
Let’s start with this: Evan Turner is a hell of a player. I had heard the opinions, but until you really watch him, you don’t get just how SMOOTH he is. In fact, he’s so good we really should just call it SMOOVE!!! He runs the point almost exclusively for the Buckeyes, plays the aggressive tip of the spear in their zone, has fantastic court vision (which didn’t particularly translate to assists tonight, but you could see it) hits the offensive and defensive glass very well, and gets to the rim practically at will. What I like so much is that he slithers through defenses to get to the rim as opposed to the ugly, ridiculous, (and hopefully someday outlawed in the NBA) Bowling Ball method favored by the Dwayne Wade’s of the world. Can’t really comment on his outside shot, as he barely took any. However he nailed a huge 3 to tie the game with under 2 minutes to go, and seems to have decent form, so no reason to think he can’t develop that part of his game.
The only thing I saw on the negative side was a quite a few turnovers. He had a bit of trouble when he got trapped, but he also showed a great knack to split those double teams or find open guys crosscourt. I would have no concerns about problematic turnovers with Evan Turner because that happens when you are the primary ballhandler. I am shocked at how often and well he runs the point for 6’7” guy. You put all this together, and I was hugely impressed. He has an unbelievably well-rounded game, but also demonstrated some decent strength and athletism. I can see the Scottie Pippen and/or Brandon Roy comparisons, and those are probably the career comps I would come up with, but I think this kid could be even better. I would whole-heartedly endorse taking him anywhere after anybody named John Wall. Especially if it means we avoid someone like Derrick Favors, who reeks of Stromile Swift.
Now speaking of Mr. Wall. Well, I’m sure there’s not much I can say that would be any different or better than has already been said. His quickness, athleticism, handle, and court vision are off the charts. He plays good man D, using his quickness to pester the hell out of people, and plays well off the ball getting into the passing lanes. The “off the ball” thing also translates to offense too. Kentucky used him in this scenario way more than I realized, and he did well with it. It seemed like their offense stagnated a bit, but Wall made lots of nice back cuts, and one hell of an alley-oop dunk late in the 2nd half. He’s the complete package. But the one thing that has really stood out to me this season is that thing…that intangible thing…that sense of the moment…John Wall has “IT” in abundance.
He’s surrounded by very talented teammates, and when they are going well, Wall is happy to set up the offense and facilitate. When they are flagging a bit, he knows how to get them going. Tonight, KU was down early in the 1st half to Florida, and you could just see the kid (subtly) take over the game briefly. He pushed the pace to set up some easy buckets, hit a couple of jumpers, and just generally upped the energy of his team. Before you knew it, they went from down 8 to up 6. When Florida got within 2 points late in the 2nd half, Calipari put Wall back on the ball. Immediate result was an easy layup, then a slash and kick to a wide open teammate for a 3. The cherry on top was an absolutely awesome open court block on a FLA fast break that sealed the game. That, my friends, is IT!!! If we get the #1, we take him and never look back. And then try and figure out how to trade up to get Evan Turner too…
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Agreed
Getting those two by far is my favorite scenario. They’re both so absurdly multi-skilled and aren’t especially weak in any particular area. This team needs more versatility, length, and athleticism (especially at the wings); those two can provide that and more.
If we can only get one of those two, we’ll be pretty set at one position and we’ll have a lot of options. With the other pick(s), I wouldn’t mind taking a gamble or two on a high-upside player like GS did with Randolph a few years ago.
Thanks for the good review
You seemed to see the same player in Turner that I saw on Saturday. That’s a good sign and hopefully speaks to him being a consistent player. I really like your description of how he drives to the hole, “slither” is what he does. I agree with your turnover assessment as well, he got caught a couple times by the trap on Saturday. I didn’t mention this because I felt his teammates did not help him much with the trap, and I am also assuming he won’t be dribbling as much in the NBA, but your assessment is still valid.
Get Them Both!!!
But how? HOW!!!!
Here’s how…
Trade Al Jeff to NJ for Bobby Simmons, one of their 2-year $3M back bench players and their pick.
For Nets – they get a front court of Al Jefferson and Brook Lopez to court LeBron – and dump a salary early.
For Wolves, the Nets probably start winning right away – but do they make up the 8 games they are behind 3 seed Golden State? So Wolves end up with #1 and likely #2 or 3 set of ping pong balls. And Bobby Simmons $10M expires.
Would be just our luck
To do all this, get the #1 and 2 most ping pong balls, and then get the #2 and 3 picks in the draft.
Doh!
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
Love him
Turner, that is. At this point he’s the guy I want first and foremost. Would he play the 2 or the 3 for us? I don’t know. Does it matter? If, according to my hypothesis, we’re building towards Rubio in 2-3 years, Turner sounds like he would look awesome next to El Playmaker Extraordinaire. Traps? Rubio laughs in the face of traps. Can you imagine the sneaky deadliness of Slithering Turner feeding off of Rubio’s passes, or driving to the hole and kicking out to KLove? I guess what I love most about Turner is that I get the sense that he’d do for our perimeter/backcourt what Love does to the front court, and that is positively impact it and elevate anyone’s play around him.
I’m sure Wall is every bit a great talent as everyone makes out, and I guess I won’t be too upset if we end up drafting him. I guess I just find it personally hard to get overly excited for him because Turner fits so well with what we’re already doing/where we’re already moving, and Wall strikes me as more of a “OK, we’re starting over now with Wall as square one.” Nothing wrong with that, just more difficult for me to imagine right now and get excited about. Does that make sense?
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
Yes, you're Turner man-crush makes sense...
Not to mention making me a little jealous. It’s OK…I’m willing to share him. To take a swing at your questions…
Would he play the 2 or the 3 for us? As presently constituted, I would think he would start at the 2 with Corey moving to the 3. That’s a nice, long-armed set of of wings that could play some perimeter D.
Playing with Rubio – I would love to see it. Outside shooting and overall quickness would be a concern, but when you could have two guys who can break down defenses like this on the court at the same time, you have to do it. Kevin Love at the high post would be a great complement. An Amare Stoudemire like finisher would really be needed to make this go though. And yes, we would lead the league in “slitheryness.” 82games.com even says so.
As far as Wall, I’m with you. This would be the one time I wouldn’t be heartbroken to miss out on #1. I’m on record as saying Rubio will be a Nash-like player, and we should be very excited about his arrival year after this. Drafting Wall would certainly cause problems in moving Ricky…
"I'm gonna make you cry...I'm gonna make you cry and dip my cookie in your tears!!!"
well it's official
we will now win the #1 pick because we have finally accepted that we wouldn’t really care if we missed it. How that for irony?
by TheEvilProfessor on Jan 13, 2010 10:13 AM CST up reply actions
Not to mention...
That the fairly new head of the NBA Board of Governors (Taylor) hired David Stern’s pet (Kahn) to be our POBO. Methinks the Wolves ping pong balls might find gravity a willing ally this year…
"I'm gonna make you cry...I'm gonna make you cry and dip my cookie in your tears!!!"
Call me crazy
No seriously, call me crazy, because at this point if we had to draft tomorrow and had the number 1 overall pick, I’d be very very very hard pressed not to take Turner. I should provide a little context, though: I believe Rubio will be a Kidd like player with his impact on a team. If I didn’t believe Rubio was all that, then Wall makes so much more sense. I suppose you could also take Wall and then work out a trade with whoever takes Turner for more assets or another player.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
Just to be clear, I’d take Turner #1 overall. I think the guy is just too good and too good a fit for us. I’m not denying Wall’s star potential. I’m just saying that Turner is going to be more Tyreke Evans in impact than he is James Harden, if that analogy makes sense.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
You definitely have to extract value in that situation as Wall is the consensus #1, so if a PG needy team had #2 like Indiana or Philadelphia, you would hold them hostage to get Turner plus more assets. The real problem for me is the likely scenario where we don’t trade for more top 5 picks, we don’t win the lottery as usual, and are stuck looking for a major contributor at pick 5. It feels like its Wall or Turner for that instant impact, even though Wesley “AARP” Johnson could probably play big minutes as well, but suffering through this season of losing would be tough without something of great value to show for it.
Turner, Brewer and Rubio don't work. You need a great 3 point shooting wing. At least one.
I’d like to see us get turner and Wesley Johnson.
Johnson shoots the 3 at 48%.
We get Turner with out pick.
We get Johnson by giving up Pekovic, Flynn and Charlotte pick.
Our team.
- jefferson
- Love
- Johnson
- Turner
- Rubio
Bench
Big with Utah pick
Free agent pick up next summer
Brewer
Ellingon
Sessions
by Kevin Love Jefferson on Jan 13, 2010 1:47 PM CST up reply actions
rubio has a pretty nice three now
It would depend on Brewer and Turner developing a little consistency from deep while being selective. Love is going to be the other deep shooter IMO. That leaves more slashing room for Tuner and cutting room for Brewer.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jan 13, 2010 2:07 PM CST up reply actions
Brewer is shooting 24% from the 3 point line, Turner is shooting 25% from the 3 line. We need another 3 point shooter.
If your starting line up is:
Jefferson
Love
Turner
Brewer
Rubio
Four out of 5 starters want to shoot close to the basket, either in the post or driving the ball to the hoop.
You need some guys to spread the floor – If Rubio has become a consistent 3 point shooter than helps but we also need wing who can shoot 3’s well.
by Kevin Love Jefferson on Jan 13, 2010 2:27 PM CST up reply actions
rubio
is shooting 37% on one league (9 games) and 49% in another (17 games).
by TheEvilProfessor on Jan 13, 2010 2:36 PM CST up reply actions
his legs are tired
He isn’t in game shape an needs alot of conditioning still. Once he gets that taken care of, his shot will be about 40% or higher for his career. He is never going to be a dirk like volume 3 shooter, but when he shoots it, he will shoot it well.
Which is all you really need from him. His ability to be able to hit that shot will open up the paint for slashers. We don’t need volume 3’s. Just players that can do it from everywhere when given the opportunity.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jan 13, 2010 3:22 PM CST up reply actions
I'd Love it
if Love could hit even 37% from 3. Just enough to make people respect the shot while still being effective. If we could get 3 more 37%ish shooters… golden! I’d rather have that than 3 32% shooters and 1 43% shooter.
Haven't seen Johnson play yet...
But his numbers seem like a good fit for our needs and back up what you’re saying. I’ve seen X. Henry play a few times now, and have been very unimpressed.
I do think both Corey and Turner will be serviceable 3 point guys, but if we can nab a sharpshooter in the draft that can play near-Brewer-like defense, I’m all for it.
"I'm gonna make you cry...I'm gonna make you cry and dip my cookie in your tears!!!"
Wes is also 2 years older than Turner
Give Turner 2 years to work on his deep shot and it will be at least as good.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jan 13, 2010 2:37 PM CST up reply actions
What's crazy
Is that some of the older guys coming out in this draft – including Wes – are the same age as Andrew Bynum. Rubio’s gonna be about that old when he comes over too. Not bad.
Can't say enough about Turner
His player description actually has the word “bust” erased, scribbled over, crossed out, whited out, and they even brought in LMA who said he looks “OK.”
Good thing we haven’t retired jersey #21 yet! Let’s just hope the Favors-crush continues for the rest of the world.
dream lineup
is Rubio, Wall, Turner on the wings.
Rubio defends SG, Wall PG (there is no one he can’t stay with) and Turner guards SFs
Turner is a shotblocking/rebounding SF we will need. I love it. Never gunna happen, but I love it.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jan 13, 2010 2:39 PM CST up reply actions
And Brewer
could be sent in for Rubio or Wall for a defensive assignment on the 2 guard. Or we could even move Turner to the 2 and Brewer to the 3. Or we could pick up a guy like R.Brewer or Childress and use them as well…. ooooh the possibilities! I hope Kahn has someone reading this crap! haha
yes...
if getting Wall and Turner was realistic as they may be the 2 best players in the whole draft regardless of position.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jan 13, 2010 3:23 PM CST up reply actions
I hope someone is reading it
If we only signed either Ronnie Brewer or Josh Childress this summer as FAs, I would be satisfied. Just give us Turner, and y’all can have your DWade’s for ungodly amounts of unobtanium.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
If we get wall then we have to trade Rubio and Flynn and won't get top dollar since everyone knows we have to move them.
Either that or we change our name from Minneapolis to POINT GUARD CITY
by Kevin Love Jefferson on Jan 13, 2010 10:02 AM CST reply actions
Not exactly
Only 2 of 3, Rubio, Flynn, and Sessions. And as much as 2009 had lots of point guards, 2010 doesn’t, so I think (hope) there will still be enough need to keep their market value high.
by Cedarpenguin on Jan 13, 2010 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
I watched both games as well
Turner was great, but its clear to me as someone who watched him before the injury that he isn’t all the way back yet. That’s how good he is.
Wall had something of an off night; didn’t score or shoot well (got a few points late after things were decided). His talent is blindingly obvious, though.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 13, 2010 1:08 PM CST reply actions
As good as Turner is you can't pass on Wall.
the guy will be a top 5 player in the NBA. He looks like D-Wade to me except more of a point guard.
Turner would be my pick anywhere after 1 and then Wes Johnson.
If we could get either Turner or Wall I would probably cry out of happieness. Both guys will be amazing players I wouldn’t come close to complaining about getting either one of them.
by Bad News Wolves on Jan 14, 2010 6:26 PM CST reply actions
The Timberwolves
where “Getting pick #3 happens”

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