Recap OpenThread: Say it with me "winning streak"
by wyn on Jan 31, 2010 11:08 PM CST
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PrintTwo wins in a row. It's a strange feeling. Plenty of things went in the Wolves' favor tonight:
- The ball was going in the basket: 50% from the field, 42% from downtown, 80% from the charity stripe. After struggling with the long ball and free throws for much of the season, tonight was a welcome deviation.
- Jonny Flynn and Ramon Sessions combined for 5/15 from the field, but ran the point to the tune of 17 assists and 3 turnovers.
- Kevin Love dropped a career-high 25 points from all over the floor; 2/5 from 3-point land, 5/6 on free throws, and the usual bevy of put backs. Love also led the Wolves with almost 32 minutes.
- While he struggled early, Al Jefferson (22 points, 11 rebounds) looked back to his old self in the second half and decimated what little post defense the Knicks have.
- Ryan Hollins had his second consecutive double-digit game after getting another nod to start.
- My favorite by far: Wilkins +34, Sessions +28, Ellington and Love +22, Hollins +20. That's ridiculous. I can't wait to see the game flow for this one.
What'd you like? Too rosy a picture of tonight? If so, don't tell me until tomorrow. Let me savor tonight.
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Maybe the team has finally figured it out
If you play some defense, you can win some games. It’s not a terribly complicated formula.
Nice to see out bench decimate the other teams’ for once. Love really levels the playing field in that regard. Is it a permanent thing? I don’t know…probably not. But I think it’s what the team needs right now.
And for those worried about his minutes, I don’t think Rambis is doing anything with any of the players other than playing them when they do well and benching them when they don’t. Against the Clippers, it was Al and Brewer playing good ball, so they got the minutes. Tonight it was Love and Wilkins. It’s such a pure “earn your minutes system” that maybe we overthink it and look for hidden agendas that aren’t there.
At any rate, I personally like this Love as a sixth man thing....
…because
1) It gives out starting lineup height, length, and more of a defensive edge
2) It gives Jonny Flynn a pick and roll partner that will actually roll
3) It gives out bench some much needed scoring and rebounding consistency
4) It shortens the rotation so we’re not gambling with players like Pech and Pavlovic
5) It gives Sessions more talent to work with in the second unit
As someone pointed out on the Star Trib...
….Love is in the Kevin McHale role Mac played when the Larry Legend Celtics were at their best
+1
I was thinking the same thing. Plus, Hollins seems to be responding well to his insertion into the starting spot. OK, perhaps he’s a bit too prolific with the fouls, but he compliments AJeff very well and Love is taking advantage of mismatches and an increased scoring role. If egos can remain in check, this seems to be working out.
Hollins needs to rebound better
That’s my one thing that concerns me about this. Because the truth is, we’ve played a couple of soft teams where Hollins wasn’t going to get punished for not holding his position and crashing the boards.
But I like his defensive focus…he stays with his man, contests shots, gets into the lanes, and picks up his rotations. And the whole team is doing a much better job communicating on defense.
Yeah...
I was kinda glossing over the rebounding part. But the defense is improved and I think (hope) the boards with come in time.
He got punished, the team did not
we’ve played a couple of soft teams where Hollins wasn’t going to get punished for not holding his position and crashing the boards.
Three boards in 30 minutes means you’re getting kept off the glass. As a team, the Wolves are just making up for it. ‘Cause Jonny Flynn is a rebounding machine!… Or sumpin’.
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
I don't there will be much of an ego problem
Only because its K-Love, and if there is any other player in the league with that Skill Level willing to accept a Bench role for the betterment of the team, it’s definetly K-Love. And i am not saying i predicted this, but i always saw K-Love coming off the bench if we could get a competent center, because he would excel in that position, i hope this rotation is here to stay, especially if we get a better center.
Out of curiousity
Why do think that Love would be any more willing than anyone else to come off the bench long term? He’s been doing his share of sulking already this year, as recently as the Clippers game.
Not really
The only reason he wasn’t happy after the Clippers game was because he didn’t get enough minutes, if he gets 30 minutes i htink he will be happy, its kind of just a gut feeling
He was always kind of
a primadonna in high school so I was just curious. I hope you’re right. It reminds me of the people who argued that Love would stay in MN forever but someone like Mayo would leave as soon as they could. I never understood that.
I really don't have any facts to back it up
But his on-court and off-court demeanour tell me that he would be willing to come off the bench if he got enough minutes and if it was for the betteremtn of the team, for me it’s kind of just a gut feeling kind of thing
I'm guessing that after last night...
…he’s learning to like it.
He gets to be the man on the 2nd unit, and it gives him more chance to score. Playing without Jefferson on the floor might just improve his game. And his recognition.
So I like this move, although I was critical at 1st.
Unfortunately
this may prove that long term Love and Jefferson will not work together. If the Wolves can acquire enough talent to have a great starting lineup and Love as the 6th man, this is fine…but teams are seldom this deep. When McHale was 6th man the NBA only had about 22 teams.
Love's not as good as McHale...
And if Lamar Odom, Manu Ginobili, and Ben Gordon can come off the bench in today’s NBA, there’s no reason Love couldn’t. The main thing is that he gets paid what he’s worth.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Feb 1, 2010 8:08 PM CST up reply actions
Don't necessarily disagree
but it depends on Love’s attitude and what the Wolves can pay. I think the next CBA is going to make well paid 6th men a thing of the past. There will probably be something closer to a hard cap (not saying a hard cap, just some method to better control salaries), which will also allow the trade salary matching restrictions to be eased or removed. Going to see more trades because teams are going to want the money going to guys playing 38 MPG, not 30 MPG off the bench.
also..
….mchale was starting when they peaked. he was a beast.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
I get that...
…but I side with McHale in the idea that basketball reached its pinnacle in Boston during the 86 season. That team was the Celts at their very best.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Hey, cool!
You know that 3 big man rotation where a true center provides athleticism and shot-blocking, Big Al provides positional flexibility and go-to post offense, and Love does a little bit of everything? We did that! Other than 2 minutes of garbage time for Pecherov and spot-PF minutes for Gomes, we only played those three, giving them 30, 30, and 32 minutes. It could totally work!
…Though ideally, the big, defensive center wouldn’t have zero defensive rebounds in his 30 minutes. I laughed out loud when I saw that in the box score.
And yet, like I said before,
We still destroyed New York on the boards. By 22. 58-36 in rebounds.
It’s some sort of alchemy.
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
Whether Hollins is the long term option or not.....
(Probably not), it’s still nice to see how the team looks with a solid 3 man rotation of bigs. Hopefully we can either find the right veteran (Haywood/Dally/etc.) or can draft one.
How can we start Hollins as a rebounder and be winning that?
Yes yes, we’ve heard Rambis’s “energy” explanation, and the “bench is stronger” explanation for why Ryan H. is starting….
However, we’re now starting a big who’s gotten 1 rebound every ten minutes over the two games, and the Wolves still killed New York on the boards last night. I mean, 58-to-36 killed them on the boards.
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
I think it all has to do with the Knicks
Apparently the Knicks were outrebounded 59-40 in their previous game against the Wizards. It helps explain Flynn’s career high rebounding, but not Hollins 3.
It actually makes Hollins only getting 3
look that much worse…
by Cedarpenguin on Feb 1, 2010 11:52 AM CST up reply actions
Although he did get his hands
on a couple of balls and deflected them out to one of our perimeter guys. Now I’m not sure if that counts as a rebound for him, our guard that ended up securing the ball, or as a team……my point is just that there were a couple of big possessions that he kept alive, even if he himself didn’t get credit for the rebound. Given how poor his hands and balance are, I think he needs to do more this. His length should allow him to keep balls alive, even if he is just flailing away at it as he’s tipping over from being lightly jostled by an opponent….
by Rascal Flatts on Feb 1, 2010 12:28 PM CST up reply actions
Thanks
I didn’t get to watch the game, I appreciate the insight that I can’t glean from the box score.
So when I tuned out,
Jonny Flynn had just tacked three made shots onto his 0-7 start, and was sitting at 6 points, 8 assists, and 8 rebounds.
The thought occurred to a few people on the thread just then that he could get a triple double. Apparently, after that point, he played almost not at all?
Ramon meanwhile put up a Mark Jackson line: 5 points, 9 assists, 6 boards.
When was the last time both PGs put up solid assist totals on the same night?
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
Team season high in assists
29.
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
Hollins doesn't want to take rebounds away from Big Al and Love
It seems to me that Hollins is not supposed to rebound since that would take away rebounds from Al and Love. If you want your stars to be getting double-doubles, then the supporting role player always lets the stars get the rebound. That’s my theory.
My theory is that he's just a really bad rebounder
He has terrible hands, poor balance, and a high center of gravity, all things that work against him when trying to carom boards. Assuming the Wolves plan on doing an offseason progam for him, hopefully it involves strengthening his base and improving his overall balance. Bench presses and arm curls won’t help. I think Marcus Camby should be his role model.
by Rascal Flatts on Feb 1, 2010 11:25 AM CST up reply actions
That lineup where they got the 20 points lead was incredible. Wilkins and Ellington shot from outside, Jefferson was killing them inside .. they really had no answer for our offense
+
the knights shot awfully short, SO many of them shots hit the front iron
Official Kahn/Rambis band-wagon rider since 2009
knicks
Official Kahn/Rambis band-wagon rider since 2009
by Wim (Belgium) on Feb 1, 2010 9:37 AM CST up reply actions
A little prespective
while I am as thrilled as the next guy that we won (and was entertained as well), the Knicks kicked our butts for the first 6 minutes of each half. But, with no Al Harrington and Nate Robinson deciding to be gunner, rather than play maker, our 2nd team was as 3x as good as the Knicks. What pleased me the most was that the Twolves took advantage of it!!
Each game makes it a little clearer to me that Love and Jefferson will not be the starters on a contending team. They have size and quickness limitations that will give nearly every NBA opponent an advantage at 4 or 5 (depending on how we choose to guard). We would need a star type 5 to play with them, rather than a serviceable 5 which was my initial take. Not many of those star 5’s around, so I am starting to think a trade is now more likely than not.
Get to see my FO friend next Saturday night, will see if I can get an insight (that I can share) on the trade deadline talks.
Great
Always appreciate any insight you are able to share
by Cedarpenguin on Feb 1, 2010 11:54 AM CST up reply actions
I don't agree.
Remember last year when Al + Love played Phoenix, who had Shaq + Amare? I thought they played them even. Now, Dwight Howard will kick our butts, but he kicks everyone’s butt.
Jefferson last year when healthy was PLUS 7.1 in net PER - [His PER 26.3, Opponent PER 19.2]; Love this season is PLUS 7.8 [his PER 25.9, opponent 18.1]
All you need to do is outscore opponents.
http://www.82games.com/0809/08MIN15.HTM – Jefferson, last year when healthy.
http://www.82games.com/0910/09MIN10.HTM – Love
I did an analysis of December defense, it showed we were 11th in the NBA for “at the rim” defense and it would have been “better” if adjusted for pace. [Thats when Jefferson and Love played the most together.]
http://www.canishoopus.com/2010/1/28/1274057/where-wolves-opponents-score-on
by Kevin Love Jefferson on Feb 1, 2010 1:12 PM CST up reply actions
On a totally unrelated note
My sources have informed me that David Kahn just hired several covert ops to trail front office personnel next Saturday night!
Pretty much agree with your Jefferson and Love take, especially Love. Jefferson’s inside scoring may help enough to live with his defense. Of course, if they draft a drive to the hoop type like Turner then Al’s inside game may not be as important.
I was at the game
I find it shocking that Flynn had 8 dimes. The offense flowed FAR better with Ramon at the helm. He got all the run late and seeing his +28, I assume Flynn was close to -7. Early was hard to watch from 6-8 to 10-24. Al and Flynn both sucked early. Love was dynamite. So too Wilkins. Love’s best games seem to be when his gf is in town from LA. She sits behind me a few rows and the other game I saw her at he blew up too. Not saying, just saying.
Good handle
can get to the rim when she needs to. Jump shot and court vision need a little work. Man’s up well on D – needssome work on weak-side help D. She’s a good prospect.
by A.K. Agikamik on Feb 1, 2010 2:55 PM CST up reply actions
She can be Adriana Lima 2.0 for the Target Center
Crap I probably just gave Love the Marko jinx…
I'd feel better about this
if the poster linking the photo didn’t go by the handle “littleboxes”
Not true
Huge props for the populist folk movement. I actually know the neighborhood that inspired the song. It’s just that, you know, sometimes words or phrases can have, like, different meanings if you twist them around. That’s all. Look at the multiple meanings packed into John Doe’s handle, as described below. My own handle can not only refer to a basketball move, but in my case refers to a nickname derived from my palsy-induced abnormal gait more commonly called “foot drop”.
Kids can be so cruel.
John Doe
just be sure not to behead her and send her head to the boyfriend in a desperate attempt to instruct society about the sin of Envy. Avoid that, and all will be fine.
I figure now would be a good time to tell you...
Every single post I’ve ever read by you, I hear in my head as if it were being read by a psychotically calm Kevin Spacey. It’s great.
That’s an awesome movie, by the way.
That's awesome.
Of course now I feel compelled to modify my writing to make it as close to movie John Doe’s speech as possible.
It really has worked out well as a username. My real name is John, the idea of ‘John Doe’ speaks to the anonymity of message boards, and I frequently finding myself using flowery speech to berate those I disagree with, which is something the Kevin Spacey John Doe would have no doubt done a lot more of had he not been busy slaughtering sinners.
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