Season Preview, 2010-11 Edition
Team Name: Minnesota Timberwolves
Last Year’s Record: 15-67
Key Losses: Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes, 2010 #16 (Luke Babbitt), Ramon Sessions, Brian Cardinal (you heard me), Delonte West (yeah, that’s right, key)
Key Additions: Michael Beasley, Martell Webster, Luke Ridnour, Wesley Johnson, Nikola Pekovic, Anthony Tolliver
1. What Significant Moves were made during the off-season?
Trading Al Jefferson means that the remaining tangible return for Kevin Garnett consists of Wayne Ellington, Kosta Koufos, part of Martell Webster and some draft picks. Despite being the man pegged as KG’s alpha dog heir and having the best low-post offensive moves in the league, Al’s welcome wore out in Minnesota with Kurt Rambis looking to pick up the offensive pace and fans’ confidence in Al as a championship caliber franchise player waning.
The real significance of David Kahn’s second offseason can’t be found in any singular move, though. It’s the sheer volume of player movement that sticks out.
There are only 3 players on the Wolves roster whose tenure exceeds Kahn’s. Sebastian Telfair wasn’t even here last year and has watched shooting guard Wayne Ellington pick up minutes at the backup point this preseason. Corey Brewer’s time in Minnesota may be up with some apparent regression in his offensive game and 3 new swingmen to compete with for time. Only Kevin Love appears to have a definite future with the Wolves.
But under Kahn nobody’s safe. No other team has churned its roster more in the last two years. In fact, the Wolves have only 4 returners from last year and had only 5 last year. The Heat? 6 returning players this year. New York, New Jersey, Golden State, and Washington each have 4 or fewer returners, but all had more than 5 last year.
Despite having only two preseason games with which to build a case, it’s beginning to appear that the Wolves’ moves this summer have succeeded in building them an identity: an up-tempo, athletic team that looks for solid spacing and outside shooting opportunities. Oh, and they're all-in on Ricky Rubio in case anyone hasn't figured this out already.
2. What are the team’s biggest strengths?
This is where it gets tricky. I have no idea what this team's biggest strengths are. I know what they should be: Rebounding and getting to the line. The team also should have a fairly decent second unit. Wes Johnson, Martell Webster, Nikola Pekovic, and Anthony Tolliver are massive upgrades over Sasha Pavlovic, Damien Wilkins, Stewie, and Brian Cardinal. The Wolves could (I repeat: could) be causing fans to deal with the word "depth" for the first time in a few years.
However, all of that being said, the biggest problem with writing about this team is that I do not believe anybody (yes, anybody) has any idea how all of these parts will play together. Last season was such a massive failure on all fronts that we have no idea how (or if) Kurt Rambis can really coach, if his system is really a system, or if anyone involved with the team has any clear idea what the hell they are doing. Last season was that big of an abomination. It was a fraud perpetrated on the purchasing public and it is amazing that there are still fans who...well, those of us who are still around really like pro basketball and there's not really a logical way to explain our attachment to the franchise that continues to poke a finger in our eyes. More on this later.
In theory, this team should control the boards on both ends of the court, play decent defense on the wings, shoot well from beyond the arc, and win 10-15 games simply by showing up and shooting the rock at a general percentage unseen in the post-KG era. In practice, I'll believe it when I see it. I like what I've seen so far this preseason, but the current mixture of this club is volatile and could go south in a hurry. Martell Webster and Wes Johnson are not known as good shot creators off of the dribble, Michael Beasley hasn't proven he can be a solid gunner, Jonny Flynn is suffering through the 2nd-year Wolves curse, this coaching staff has shown exactly nothing so far, and [insert your own possible blunder here]. When this team is winning games (or losing in a competitive manner) Kahn's "plan" will seem like it is headed down the right track, as we should see lots of hustle, athleticism, length, passing (especially from the bigs) and good shooting. When this squad is losing games, it will certainly be pitched by the team as a work in progress (and, to be fair, it is), but it will also still be the result of a long-running tradition of horrific front office decisions (both pre and during the Era of Kahn). At the end of the day, this is still a 15 win franchise with an under-performing coaching staff and front office that passed on the BPA with a top 5 pick and was unable to turn additional (and multiple) 1st round draft picks into anything other than Martell Webster. The one thing they have going in their favor is that anything approaching average will be greeted by us die-hards as honest-to-Pete manna from heaven. The soft bigotry of low expectations finally has a home at 600 First Avenue.
3. What are the team’s biggest weaknesses?
They haven't proven anything. Period. As hard as it is to predict the strengths of a group of guys that do not have a lot of shared court time together, it is equally hard to tell what they do not do well together. They should turn the ball over a lot. They should have trouble creating their own shots in a 1/2 court setting. As many assets as they have poured into the point guard position over the past 2 years, it is still a largely unsettled part of the roster that saw Wayne Ellington get minutes at the spot during the pre-season (seriously, how crazy is it that after two top 10 picks and 2 free agents that the team had to play Ellington at the point?!). Their coaching staff has not shown itself to be able to improve a roster. Their front office staff has not shown itself to be able to make an above average roster. At this point, and with their track record, the question is what aren't their weaknesses?
4. What are the goals for this team?
Not perpetrating fraud upon the paying public. I know it's kind of harsh, but last year was an unmitigated disaster that was not only one of the two or three worst seasons in franchise history, but was also an 82-game washout that became (according to team legend) a testing ground for the long term plans of Coach Rambis and POBO Kahn. I'm sure all of you who paid for a ticket are happy to hear that.
I want competitive and entertaining action on a night-in/night-out basis. This probably means that we'll need to see some solid coaching and player development. For better or worse (most likely for the sake of addiction), I appear to be the type of fan that is in this thing for the long haul. My goal this year is to not feel like a dupe for following this team. Again, congratulations Timberwolves--low expectations have garnered you another victory.
5a- B-Easy is OK but DMC is a no go?
See if you can make sense of this paragraph from Chad Ford's off-season grade post about Our Beloved Puppies:
The Wolves started off the summer with the selection of Wesley Johnson with the No. 4 pick in the draft. There were better players -- see DeMarcus Cousins -- on the board, but Johnson filled a need and was a better fit, personalitywise, with the culture the team is trying to build. The Wolves also got a bit of a steal in early July when the team landed Beasley for essentially nothing. Beasley may not fit the culture, but he was the No. 2 pick in the draft two years ago and is a big-time talent. The move cost the Wolves little; there was only upside there.
Mr. Ford didn't feel it necessary to put two and two together, but I will: If you pass on DMC because of attitude but then take a flier on Beasley despite of it, that doesn't make any sense. BPA, BPA, BPA. It's not that hard. To be fair to the Wolves, and to say something negative about their abilities to pick the BPA, we believe that they honestly thought Wes Johnson was the better player than Cousins. We promise not to dwell on this horrible pick going forward, but we do want to make something very, very clear: This was a draft blunder on par with Foye/Roy. Wes Johnson will be a nice pro. DMC will be a beast. I think we have made our thoughts on this subject known for quite some time and this is the last we will speak of it. If they were scared away by the guy's personality, it doesn't say much about their ability to groom young players (especially in light of what the Kings are doing). If they had Johnson ranked ahead of him, it doesn't say much about their ability to judge college talent. Either way you cut it, it was the wrong pick--always was, always will be. 15 win teams don't get to draft for fit...especially for the fit of a certain teenage point guard 1/2 way around the globe.
5b- Is this the end of the line for Corey Brewer?
It doesn't look good for the former Gator. Aside from having an unpredictable POBO with no real attachment to anyone on the active roster (his allegiances lay in Europe), the Wolves added two players in Martell Webster and Wes Johnson who appear to be souped-up versions of the skinniest 6'8" guy on the planet. His qualifying offer is nearly $5 million and he is going to a) have to show a lot of improvement this season (even over what he showed last year) and b) get a lot of playing time at both the 2 and 3 to show his worth to the club going forward. Martell Webster will make over $5 mil next year. Wes Johnson will make just over $4. Corey Brewer is really going to have to distinguish himself if the team is going to plow $15 mil into slightly-above-replacement-value performers at the 2/3. My hope is that one of these 3 guys distinguishes himself at the 2 and that Mike Beasley can lock down the 3. If anything, all of this should provide some solid motivation for Brewer to make this a fantastic year. No matter if he ends up on the Wolves or not, he has plenty to prove and he will be pushed at every step of the way. Early returns from Johnson, Webster, and Brewer do not place things in Corey's favor.
5c- Is Kevin Love an All Star performer?
Regular readers of this site know that I have long viewed Kevin Love as the best player on the squad. Regular readers will also know that instead of getting geeked about the Flynn/Love/Darko connection, there is nothing that irritates me more about this franchise than knowing that it very easily could have (and should have) been Curry/Love/DMC. Efficient scorers? Check. Monster rebounders? Double check. Did I mention that I would never bring up the DMC bit again? Sorry. Back to Love.
Love is an absurdly efficient and productive player. In his first two seasons with the team, he was either 2nd or 1st in WP/48. He was the team's best rebounder on both ends of the court by a country mile (leading the league in Oreb% in his rookie season). In his first year with the team he was a +3 on an OE/DE differential. In his second year he was +4. Think about that for a moment. Think about how bad the Wolves were over the past two seasons and then think about how Love managed to come out with a net positive or 3-4 points for every 100 possessions he was on the floor. How does he do this? First, he's not as bad of a defender as everyone would like to pretend. In fact, he holds his opponents to less than their average production in direct match ups. Will he have trouble guarding gigantic centers and athletic power forwards? Of course. However, in aggregate, he more than holds his own.
Second, Love is one of the best possession-by-possession finishers in the NBA. The ultimate goal of any player is to end as many possessions in his team's favor as possible at both ends of the court. Love is not only the best offensive and defensive rebounder on his team, but he is top-5 in the entire league. The guy has the ability to grab nearly 30% of available rebounds on the defensive side of the court. He gets his mitts on roughly 15% of available rebounds on offense. That's a single player positively ending nearly 30% of any miss by the opposing team while extending the possession of 15% of his own team's misses at the other end of the court. It is pretty hard to overstate just how important this is for a team that doesn't shoot the ball well.
Moving beyond rebounds, Love does not turn the ball over at a high rate. Last year he had the 3rd highest Ast% on the team while carrying the 4th lowest TO%. This year he will have the opportunity to put these numbers through the roof. One of the most striking things about the first two preseason games is that Minny bigs are going to have lots of opportunities to hand the ball off to guys who can but the ball in the bucket from long range. If Webster and Johnson are hitting their jumpers, Love could have an even more absurdly efficient season.
Rounding things out, the guy gets to the line at a higher clip than anyone else on the team. Rebounding, free throws, decent shooter, not a lot of turnovers...you really can't ask for too much more from the guy. He could have a break-out season this year that puts him at a level where talking about All Star status isn't such a ridiculous proposition. Love is far and away (at least for me) the number one reason to follow this club.
Wrapping It Up:
I have to be completely honest. I have no idea how to write about this team anymore. The more I think about last season's whitewash, and the more I think about how little I think of David Kahn, the less I want to think about the club. The ownership, coaching staff, and front office of this franchise has underperformed (and obviously so) for such a long time that it has become second nature for any remaining fan to view what happens off-the-court as somehow eclipsing (at least in terms of interest and entertainment) what happens on-the-court. This is a tremendously negative thing and it's kind of a downer. Just look at the tone of this post. It's terrible, no fun, and kind of a drag, and I'm tired of dancing the dance.
How long have we been talking about Blueprints, Plans, or whatever iteration of "hold on while we wait to get lucky" the team is feeding its season ticket holders? How many different versions of Foye/Roy have we been through? When was the last time anything happened on-the-court that was worth talking about? Corey Brewer's dunk against the Lakers is the only thing I can think of during the last two seasons.
I have zero faith in the ability of David Kahn to pull off whatever it is he thinks he's doing. I disagree with those who say he doesn't have an obvious general strategy (he's all-in on Rubio), but I find nothing in his resume or performance to suggest that he deserved (or continues to deserve) the job.
I have zero faith in the ability of Kurt Rambis to get the most out of whatever roster is put in front of him. Last season was an absolute embarrassment, and a lot of it came from the complete inability of the coaching staff to coax out anything approaching player development. The guy has shown nothing.
All of this being said, I'm tired of focusing my attention at the off-the-court issues of this franchise. I'm tired of knowing from day 1 that the most interesting thing during the season will be putting together a college draft board. I don't want to worry about systems or the never-ending series of roster moves that are probably still on the horizon with a guy who seems to value busy work over smart work. I just want to watch entertaining basketball and I no longer care how the sausage is made. That's my bar for this team. Either they are entertaining on-the-court or I flip the League Pass over to OKC. I don't want the soap opera or another Blueprint. There is no longer anything off-the-court that is worth my allegiance or attention and I want results because I'm tired of waiting. This is what apathy for a die hard fan looks like. I'm not going to be duped by this franchise anymore. I'm not going to get excited over table scraps. This is a 15 win team that has proven nothing.
Entertain me with competitive ball or I turn the channel with no complaints or comments. It's that simple.
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Spot on?
would imply he hit the nail on the head 100% of the time.
5a) How do you pass on DMC with the number 4 but take a chance on Beasley?
Kahn was able to add 2+2=4 the spot you are asking the wolves to take a chance on an attitude and DMC. A player who would not even come to the facility and audition for the team.
2nd and 2nd = 2 the number of number two picks you gave up to take a chance on Beasley.
A slightly different roll of he dice.
Now all that said doesn’t mean I don’t think DeMarcus Cousins isn’t going to be good or even great. But I can say for this team I would rather have Wes and Love than DMC and Love.
I’m sick of having our two best players not able to be on the court together and that’s what we would have had. Again.
DMC a center, no?
I would drive 10 miles to hear fucktwats sing.
by littleboxes on Oct 12, 2010 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions
He's been playing
PF for the Kings thus far, or sort of a hybrid PF/C (a la Al Jeff).
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
I'd be curioust to know who the C that DMC was playing with....
…cuz it ain’t really Landry or Thompson (even though JT does play C when Cousins isn’t out there).
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
JT plays C, but that's not his better position (although he can get better there).
In my opinion, and I haven’t seen any of the games (although I’m sure Akis Yerocostas and James Ham, both guys who have seen them play would agree), but I’ve seen JT & DMC play in the past: DMC isn’t a real PF any way you slice it. He may have the quickness to defend some bigger PF’s, but I would be shocked to see DMC guard PF’s if Dalembert was in the game. Not because Daly is so good at defending PF’s, but mainly because DMC probably won’t be able to.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If he playing alongside Landry?
The Kings are going to have some interesting tradeoffs to make this year.
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
Yes feral. Mainly it's been about whose been healthy because Dalembert, Hassan Whiteside, and Landry, all have been battling injuries this pre-season.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
And I couldn't agree more about the trade-off's.
There are Kings fans who are going to receive a rude awakening about several players on a number of fronts.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Wow, you are massively down on this team right now. I’m an optimist and looking forward to this year though I admit if they don’t compete (or look like they’re competing) I too will tune out most of the NBA season and spend my time watching … I don’t know really, I’ve heard Chuck is good.
Chuck looks nice. Okay casting – Adam Baldwin.
The writing is baaaad.
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
Yeah, that show sucks.
It should on in original syndication, like Pam Anderson’s VIP. That’s what I can best compare it to.
by princelyfrank on Oct 11, 2010 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions
If Kahn had drafted Cousins...
I wonder if the tone of this post would be completely different. It seems like, more than anything, the criticism towards Kahn is largely focused in one direction…and then the rest is just added on for posterity.
No
It’s cumulative at this point. I don’t think he has the first clue what he is doing.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Also..
…as I’ve mentioned in a few other places, I have zero faith in his ability to do anything according to a reasonable process. Even when he does something good, I’m not sure it was according to anything but luck or internal office politics.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
I think
you might want to consider a sabbatical from your Wolves fandom this year. Go watch OKC or Sacto instead – you sound incredibly burned out. I’m serious – if this is how you feel then what’s the point? What’s the personal, emotional cost of being a Wolves fan for you, and why continue to be one? How is it worth it, after everything you just said (and I’m being serious, not just rhetorical)? I guess it just reminds me of what my dad says when he’ll suddenly turn the Vikes off during the middle of the game and go outside, and that is watching the game is supposed to be entertainment and something that gives him energy. When it becomes something that sucks energy from him and (from experience) knows will bring him down for a couple days, he says ‘screw it.’
It’s OK to be done with the Wolves, SnP. You don’t have to like or follow this team anymore if it’s pulling you down that much. I think we all have the utmost respect for you, and I also think no one will question any choice you may make to leave or take a break. I guess it’s just hard to hear how far apart you are from what you ostensibly love about basketball when it comes to this team.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
by biggity2bit on Oct 11, 2010 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think...
…I’m definitely burned out with trying to understand anything with this team’s front office/ownership. I do want to make it clear that I’m damn excited about the on-the-court product despite all of the nonsense. I guess I didn’t make that as clear as I should have/would have liked to have in the post. I’m completely at the turn-off-the-tv stage with how this team is run. I’m trying to say that this is my equivalent of turning it off and walking outside vis-a-vis POBO/Papa Glen. As for the games, I just want to watch fun professional basketball and I’m hopeful that this can happen this year. There is something obviously contradictory here, but that’s…well, I’m trying to figure out how to write about the team in a way that reflects how I feel about the franchise. I need to completely cut out the off-the-court stuff.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
This raises a point that, with all the KAAAAHN crap going on, I forget sometimes.
I’m not rooting for a front-office, i’m rooting for players. I’ve read bitter comments to the effect of “even if we’re good, the media won’t give credit to Kahn.”
So? Kahn’s kind of annoying. If he successfully puts together a roster, then awesome, but I don’t feel the need to stick up for him. I’m a fan of the Wolves’ players (now if they could just find some good ones and keep them….)
I was a fan of Jerry Krause's.
When Kahn produces like the Pippen/Grant draft year, let me know and I’ll put him on the Christmas card list.
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
I will cheer for Kahn
Just becouse of all the hate he gets. That is why I will go for the heat too.
by chuckd@79 on Oct 11, 2010 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think this line..
….has been blurred with the Wolves. It has been impossible to separate the front office from the product for such a long time that a weird sort of relationship has developed.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
But if the wolves do well
Then Kahn gets less heat.
Good idea
I may be misreading the whole situation, but there seemed to be a turn for you when running this blog brought you a little more access than maybe you’d had in the past. I think that came with a cost. Not that it compromised you, like it might have done with some who would want to ingratiate themselves for more favored status. Instead it seemed to give you a level of insight into a front office that most of us are better off not understanding in order to maintain the unbridled hope that is the basis of fandom.
Like at least one other poster here I grew up an Oakland Raider fan. Sometime around the Marcus Allen fiasco I realized that Davis was too much of an ass to ever support in any fashion. It took no insider access to learn that, but I have never gone back to that team. even when, years later we inhabited the same patch of land.
My advice is that if you learned things you never needed to know, somehow let them go. The team is bigger than Kahn (unlike the Raiders and Al Davis), and miracels can happen in basketball even in the face of the worst management. even without championships, a season like the Warriors gave their fans a couple years back can make it all worth while.
I cannot tell you...
…how much I agree with your first paragraph. It’s been like something out of a Mel Brooks movie.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Is it possible
that most of the bad stuff you’ve been hearing about the sausage making process is coming from former/disgruntled employees with an agenda? Or is it current folks/people with nothing to gain?
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Oct 11, 2010 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions
"Looks like a duck . . . "
Considering the tone of this post, SnP, if and when you move from Mankato to OKC or wherever, you may want to have the real estate agent write up the description of your house, instead of employing your considerable skills. In a buyer’s market, I don’t think this is going to get the “SOLD” sign up very quickly:
FOR SALE 1 1/2 story Cape Cod in a dodgy neighborhood with five registered sex offenders living within three blocks. Next door neighbor could quite possibly be making meth, or is just tanning leather in his living room. New kitchen that isn’t as nice as the old one. Long history of water damage, as well as serious concerns with the foundation. Bedrooms smelled like that when we bought the place, and have only gotten worse. Garage door doesn’t open in winter, or close in the summer. Wiring replaced with several dozen extension cords running throughout the house. Oven exhaust doesn’t work, but it does help keep heating bills lower during the winter. $179,000, serious buyers only. First accepted offer receives a girl’s small lightly-used Sebastian Telfair jersey.
by PoorDick on Oct 11, 2010 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
It definitely looks like a duck
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
But WHICH Mel Brooks movie??
The Producers?
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
“The Producers” (1968)
Full Length Mirrors Melbourne
by Dollie Woodrum on Oct 11, 2010 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm with Biggity
I also think a factor wearing you down is being the ambassador of this site. Take a break, it will be here when you get back.
Personally, the wolves have been nothing but heartbreak from day one. But they’ve also given me some of my greatest sports memories. KG drinking ‘Dave Long Islands’ when I was working at Champps near his place when he hung out there. Standing in the urinal next to Spree at Rick’s Caberet the week go got traded and welcoming him to town while keeping my eye contact straight ahead, the KG MVP announcement before the playoff game, Kevin Willis taunting me after I taunted him in our inaugral playoff series—he pointed to the scoreboard and said, “Second Round baby” as he ran into the tunnel.
Don’t let Kahn get you down. In 5 years DMC will be 315lbs and playing on his second contract with another team. He wouldn’t have worked out here. He would have been a disaster. Wes is a basketball player. Ricky has a chance to be something really nice.
The NBA will be a lot like the NFL this year, way more parity. The really bad teams really improved a lot this year. We could have 25 wins (I think a few more) and have the worst record in the league.
Predictions: The wolves will have 3 3-game win streatks this year. That will be three weeks of the season we will all be in great moods.
Listen, I made a bet with my boss before last season (Twins game and steak dinner) that the Wolves will make the playoffs before the Wild. I’m sticking to it.
Keep your chin up. I promise you’ll feel recharged in 2 months.
Dave
by Dave Mulvihill on Oct 11, 2010 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Standing with Spree at a urinal. Now THAT is a distinctive sports memory.
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
Nope, not far away enough
Admit it, SnP, you’re done here. Don’t go away mad, just go away.
by Dave T on Oct 11, 2010 7:02 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Do you have info that is more inside than the rest of us? If not, I really can’t see how you can paint Kahn so badly. He did lay out a plan(longer, better D, and better shooting) and he has accomplished a lot of it, some with shrewdness(Rubio) and some luck(Beasley). Flynn/Curry was a clear mistake, IMO. DMC/Wes competition is still only on college paper. We’ve yet to see. As far as coaching, I wonder if there was an edict to lose. That could rile the coaching staff as it makes them look incompetent. I just can’t bring myself to believe that Rambis was doing his best beyond individual player development. The whole staff looked sort of disinterested. He possibly was overruled on roster decisions and knew that almost no one from last season would be around this year. That could explain the DMC decision as it seems that Rambis was very high on Darko.
I wonder if S&P gets mad at the Vikes
…when they punt on 4th down. Gotta go for it on every play.
In hoops, Rambis had one chance to remake the squad. If he did not play Love enough, maybe he had his reasons, and maybe it was better for Rambis to punt last season, in a sense.
(S&P pretty much can't stand football, for reasons pretty close to my own.)
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
True...
…I cannot stand football, and yes, I vote for going for it on 4th all the time! Cut the punter! ;)
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
There have been some simulations that support your decision
The exceptions being when you would give the other team a field of less than 20 yards to score a TD.
I just don't see how
You’re excited about the team that is going to be playing this year. But then say the person who signed/drafted all of those players doesn’t know what he’s doing.
Really these players all got here via luck? that’s your legit position?.
The "reasonable process" problem is worth emphasizing, but I'm not sure how we can really describe it well from our POV.
I’d like to know, for example, whether with Ronzone and Rambis there is now some semblance of a real process for making personnel decisions. If there is, then we can at least suggest that the last year’s “chop hard, we don’t have time to sharpen the axe” M.O. was partly a result of the whole front office contract situation.
If we knew, end to end, how a couple of crucial decisions got made, that could be pretty telling. But we’re fans; all we can do is sense, in several different ways, that the Wolves can’t do things like properly review and edit their Web press release stuff, let alone evaluate draft prospects in a “rigorous” way.
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
My biggest practical reason...
…for wanting to cut out the front office talk (aside from it getting old) is that it would be impossible to do without hearsay and anonymous comments. It would have been a lot of “I’ve heard” or “sources tell me”. I don’t want that at all.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Right, as fans we really just can't know.
It pains me to recognize, though, that even Kahn’s politician “Tell them what they want to hear” answers haven’t ever hit this note. Asked about one thing or another, he forever says “We’re working harder.” He never mentions processes at all. He doesn’t seem to even know this is something to brag up.
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
Won't Kahn ultimately be judged...
…by the product he puts on the floor and how they perform? Whether by luck or by fire, we win a championship or 12 games this year, it will reflect in large part on his abilities as a GM – or lack thereof. If he is a chauvinist or racist or Republican or Davis-like “ass”, it won’t do anything except act as an accelerant to the demeanor and general attitude of his constituents in light of negative outcomes.
Maybe I'm just a wonk who watches C-SPAN and enjoys it sometimes,
but a big part of the fun of being a fan, for me, is watching the whole team building thing over time. I enjoy stuff like trying to figure out whom to draft…. All the stuff we keep ourselves watching with over a summer, you know?
It’s unnerving to feel like we’re reading the mind of someone who’s really not paying that much attention at some point…. The idea that fans on a board like this probably thought more about McHale’s draft picks than he did was similarly unsettling.
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
Aren’t you asking for a lot, to get process info? Think about what we ever heard from McHale. Nothing. Do other GMs lay out their plans any more than Kahn has? Without real info, I would have to guess that all that any team’s fanbase hears is pablum.
I started by saying "but I'm not sure how we can really describe it well from our POV."
What we have, at least some of us, is an unsettling persistent impression that a person who’s overmatched in terms of some basic GM skills (talent evaluation) is flying by the seat of his pants. It’d be reassuring to think he at least could set up a front office that had a decent process for working around those blind spots…. But as fans, we really have no way to demonstrate that definitively.
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
I agree that drafting Flynn was a mistake ...
… and I think Kahn would agree with you, which is why he hired Ronzone.
Drafting Wes was not a mistake. Wes is exactly what they were looking for: outside shooter, good defense. I think Wes was Rambis’s pick. The jury is still out on Kahn, Rambis, Ronzone and company. But your post implies there’s no plan when the plan is obvious even to ME. Bigs who can pass and defend, wings who can pass and shoot, everybody runs.
by Dave T on Oct 11, 2010 7:22 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I dont know why people on this site cant
See the fact that DMC = Big AL both are fat and both can score
Don't forget rebounds!
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
Getting Old
SNP, I truly enjoy the time and effort you have put into this site.
With that aside, I want to say that while I used to read your articles line by line, I now skim or just go right to the comments. I know that you will get down about who the wolves drafted, complain about Kahn, Rambis, and all the wolves draft picks.
I’m generally happy that the wolves have scrapped the entire roster and started over. Let’s move on and focus on who is in MN and not what coulda, woulda, shoulda been.
It’s a new season.
Thank You,
The DR
by DR_JPK on Oct 11, 2010 2:01 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I think I acknowledged....
….as much in the post. It’s all getting old.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
S&P, you did acknowledge that it is getting old
…but it would have been better if you had never mentioned it, and never mentioned the FO.
You could have written this differently. It’s like you are trying to turn off your audience.
I want this to be an entertaining site. If you cannot find anything positive about Kahn, don’t mention him. Or find someone, somewhere, who does appreciate him. Or write about who is going to have to eat the most crow if naysayers are wrong and the Wolves exceed expectations.
Or talk about the kind of player you might like to see us get instead of Brewer.
I personally think the Wolves did a great job of turning the roster into something with way more talent, with plenty of cap space left for more moves. So there is room for other opinions.
But just as someone advised turning off the TV when the VIkes suck, you can turn off the bile and focus on the positives.
Agreed. Even some of the national media members are awaking to the fact
that there’s a plan in place, we have a lot of quality young talent and we should make a little noise this year. This post makes me want to take my ticket for tomorrow’s preseason game and throw it in the garbage.
To be perfectly clear...
…my goal here was to write a post that takes a clear break with what I have been doing ad nasuem for quite a while and to focus on positive things that are hopefully going to happen on the court. The main point here is that it is boring and destructive to talk about the off the court problems of this team because that’s all that has been available for a long, long time.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
It's sort of a last harrah...
…of focusing on what I have focused on for a while.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Well that's good, then
otherwise, you might want to start including a link to the Minnesota Suicide Prevention Hotline on the bottom of each post.
but you didn't
You pretty much slammed Kahn for his drafting again and again while taking 1 paragraph out to praise Love.
I thought the last paragraph...
…was pretty obvious:
As negative as all of this has seemed (and it’s largely aimed at ownership and the front office), I’m genuinely (and cautiously) optimistic that the Wolves will have an entertaining team this year. My head tells me that this position is filled with contradiction and is against my best interests, but I’m rolling with it anyway. I’ve been writing about off-the-court issues with this franchise for such a long time that just the thought of getting it back to what is on the hardwood is kind of entertaining by itself.
I realize writing about the draft/front office nonsense is old and that was the point of this post.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
I read the whole thing
Thought it was a good article.
by onthekubelwagen on Oct 11, 2010 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions
I read the whole thing even though I've read much of SnP's opinion on this. (I disagree with him, even though I'm a Kings fan, because I don't place the value he has on DMC. That's me, though.)
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
There are 29 paragraphs in this piece
I’m not going to count how many are positives vs complaints. Not worth my time. Seemed mostly unremitting complaints to me.
I know you are waaaay better than that. Please let the positives come out again. I hope this is the last one that focuses more on management than on the players.
I'm confused by all the implications...
that Stop-n-Pop’s writing is poorer because it’s negative in tone.
I actually kind of think the optimism around here is getting a little excessive (not that it’s unenjoyable, mind you, I just think we’re going to be in for a bit of a disappointment when the season starts). I have to chuckle every time I see things like “Kahn has turned this team around” and outrage that a Wolves blogger isn’t optimistic for the prospects of a 15-win team that didn’t acquire a proven star player in the offseason.
Seriously, when did Canis Hoopus become a place where only sunny, positive outlooks were welcome? We’re going to tell the site’s main writer to stop writing if he doesn’t think the management has done well?
by LoveTo on Oct 11, 2010 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
We've had two preseason wins.
It’s like the housing bubble, only all we did so far was stick signs in the grass outside and set up an open house for late October.
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
Agreed completely
and there’s a fine line between being generally negative on this team and what it has done and complaining just for the sake of complaining. The latter is obnoxious… beyond obnoxious. I don’t think that was in this post. It was basically a summary of all of the moves Kahn has made this summer, but without taking into account a couple pointless summer league games.
Didn’t most of us hate the Martell trade immediately?
And most people here voted for Cousins to be the pick… I know I still would.
Most of us have also said quite often how we have benefitted from Kahn’s hiatus from the microphone.
There has been significant turnover on the roster.
We do have a lot of depth (wait isn’t that positive???) compared to the past.
This team was absolutely awful last year. I don’t remember this many people complaining about how people were upset during the season last year. In fact I remember the game threads getting down to about 20 other people commenting on a nightly basis… I remember… I was there for most of them. That doesn’t mean I don’t think this team could have done better. Better in a lot of areas. Because they certainly could have and should have.
Remember last year when Jonny was the next CP3? We should go back and see how many people stopped complaining about taking Curry until the season started and we all remembered why we wanted Curry in the first place. Anyways, like I said there is a fine line between writing about this team during this offseason (the offseason following our worst season in a loooong time… and that’s saying something) and complaining just to complain. It sucks to read even more TWolves bashing when we have gotten it outside of here every day this summer, but at least these aren’t the same old tired story lines. Sure, I’d have liked to read a nice positively realistic preview for the season, which is what I expected in the post. But apart from the title being an extreme misnomer, I have no problem with this post. Maybe it should be changed to, “Offseason Review, 2010 Edition”?
You're not letting natural selection take its course! You're like the guy who invented the seatbelt...
Spot on.
Let’s look at some comments I distinctly remember from this time last year:
-Jonny had the potential to be the next CP3 (similar college stats, Big Al even said so!)
-Love and Jefferson could co-exist, because Laimbeer was going to get them to play tough defense.
-Sessions was the steal of the summer (Hollinger even said the upgrade from Telfair to him was worth 9 wins!)
-Hollins was going to be the shotblocking, athletic third big we needed.
- There was finally a new, winning culture in place! We were going to challenge for 30 wins, and once Rubio came over, we were one scoring wing away from the playoffs.
I remember this because I was one making several of those comments. And people who disagreed or had vocally lower expectations were considered pessimists and whiners. I’m just saying that the chatter this offseason reminds me a lot of the chatter last offseason.
And while I obviously don’t have a problem with that — we’re fans in the pre-season, it’s what we do — I think it’s weird to see all the backlash toward a guy who wrote a post that isn’t as rosy as people wish it were.
I also find it interesting just how much two preseason games and some NBA downtime have shifted the outlook. Go back and read the comments on draft night. Almost everyone was merciless in their criticism of Kahn, both for the Wes pick and the Webster trade. Now, after not nearly enough basketball to change perceptions, pro-Johnson and anti-DMC comments far, far outweigh the vice-versa. Again, which is fine, but people are ALREADY saying that focusing on that missed pick is pointless whining. Strange.
I guess for me
is that what I see on the court so far from these guys looks so much better than anything I saw last year. Ya, it’s pre-season, but even beyond that I see guys passing, passing, and passing some more, even when they weren’t making shots or were down. That, in my mind, is a huge improvement over last year’s team. And defense! Have we talked about defense? These guys are actually trying, or perhaps they simply are good enough athletes to not get exposed on every possession. And the last thing that I see is competitiveness. So far this team has yet to back down. Doesn’t matter if NY goes up 10-12 points in the first or whatever it was, or if they’re playing the Lakers. These guys have stayed aggressive all game, and that is more than I can say about last year’s team.
Finally, in terms of the talent added to this team…
- Darko and Pek are such far cries from Hollins it’s not even funny. Darko has some great court vision and can really zip some passes. Pek looks like a potential force down low, and a better rebounder than we expected. This isn’t all potential and ‘could be’ optimism as was applied to Hollins, these are two big guys who have gotten their teammates involved and forced the other team to account for their abilities.
- Ridnour looks so much better running this team than Sessions or Jonny ever did. I don’t know how else to put it – the dude just looks like he landed on the right team at the right time. He doesn’t hold the ball to long, makes great decisions, and can drain the three when open. Again, this isn’t potential or ‘should be able to do x, y, and z’, this is what they’ve shown on the floor.
- Love still looks like Love. And it appears that he’s going to get more minutes this year.
- The depth. Last year if Al wasn’t hot, or Love, there was no one else to pick up the slack. Brewer and Flynn jacked up a ton of shots, but honestly neither of them should be counted on to pick the team up scoring wise. This year, at least what I’ve seen so far, is that Beasley, Wes, and Martell can all be the lead scoring options, with very solid (and consistent) supporting scoring from Ridnour, Pek, and Ellington. I guess my point is that if you wanted to beat the Wolves last year, you pretty much had to do one of two things – either take away Love and Al, or make the team one dimensional in relying on Love and Al for scoring. This year there are ample guys who can come in and score, (all supported, incidentally, by the non-Hollins-esque play of our bigs who can pass and set good screens).
I fully respect your point that we need to temper our expectations for this team after only two pre-season games. But I will also say that some of us were excited about Wes, and the direction he might help this team take, before the draft:
Like I said at the beginning of this post, Wes Johnson (I think) has a chance to be one of the best 2nd or 3rd options in the NBA. He’s the ideal guy at the top of this draft to make some other lead guy that much better. For example, how much better might Iggy be with Wes? How much better might Lopez and Harris be with Wes? How much better might Rubio be with Wes? How much better might Tyreke be with Wes?
Going a step further, I posted this on July 2nd, and so far it looks pretty spot on. I repost it here because I think it bears revisiting just what this team had to deal with last year, namely a perimeter based largely on Gomes, Wilkins, Brewer, and Ellington between the 2/3, a low efficiency/low FTA/high volume low post scorer in Big Al, and a guy asked to be his defensive partner in Hollins. The impact of replacing that perimeter foursome with Beasley, Martell, Wes, and Ellington isn’t rocket science, it’s just such a huge, huge upgrade for enabling Rambis to play basketball how he wants. Shooting efficiency improves, length and athleticism improves, and defense improves. Replacing Hollins with centers who can actually do more than jump out of the gym also enables Rambis to play the kind of offense and defense he wants. Replacing Al’s high volume/low efficiency approach with two higher efficiency guys (well, Darko’s not really high efficiency, but he takes a lot fewer shots than Al, so addition by subtraction?)…well, just read what I wrote awhile ago:
So what about our SFs? Wilkens and Gomes played the majority of our minutes there last year, and their dMULT’s were 1.083 for Wilkens and 1.139 for Gomes. Again, not good. They got beat defensively too much, and couldn’t score enough offensively to offset it (they gave up, on average, 7.4 points per game!!!)
Enter Wes Johnson. Long, athletic, from Syracuse. Oh no… Nah, I’m just kidding, sort of. Despite coming from Syracuse, NBA types almost universally are high on Wes’ defensive abilities. We all know he can shoot, so if he can become even average defensively it should be a big upgrade for us.
Last year our SFs weren’t good shooters, (.468 eFG), and didn’t shoot very much (13.6 FGA) or score very much (15.1 points). Comparatively, our Centers shot .483 eFG on 17.3 FGA, netting 20.1 points. Based on the moves in the draft and FA thus far, this is where I see the biggest change occurring offensively.
IF we truly are going to start running more we should get about the same number of possessions as last year per game (96). There are two big, inter-related differences though: by substituting out Big Al for Darko (and Pek), the Wolves are taking out a player who’s a volume scorer and replacing him with a hesitant shooter in Darko (which is good – he’s bad at shooting), and a very efficient scorer in Pek. Pek and Darko will probably equal more shots than Al, but not that many more. Pek efficiency should result in more points per FGA for the Darko/Pek grouping versus Al.
The second difference is between Martell Webster and Wes Johnson and Brewer/Wilkens/Gomes. With Al gone, the focus of the team is, in my opinion, going to be recentered on the perimeter. A rotation of Webster/Wes/Ellington/Brewer is going to put up more points, more efficiently, and with significantly better defense than a rotation of Brewer/Ellington/Wilkens/Gomes. My expectation, which I think is reasonable, is for the SG position to be a wash – over the course of the season we’ll score as much as we give up. Let’s be conservative and say it goes from -2.4 ppg to -.4, a + 2 ppg improvement.
For the SF position, it all depends on how well you think Wes is going to do. Let’s say he takes Gomes’ minutes and plays 30 mpg. Gomes scored 10.9 points on 9.6 shots last year. I think Wes is going to be given every opportunity to shoot more, so let’s say he’s at 12-13 shots a game netting, maybe, 14-15 ppg? Combined with his improved defense (we’re assuming), and the improved depth (Brewer, Webster, or Lazar at SF is going to be much better offensively than Wilkens), and I think we could reasonably expect an improvement of + 3-4 ppg in differential at the SF position (being conservative). If all other positions can duplicate what they did last year, the combined improvement in scoring differential at the SG and SF position is around 5-6 ppg.
Now, the quick caveat – this analysis is intentionally broad, and as such doesn’t factor in a ton of detailed stuff. My intention is to outline how bad our production was last year at the SG/SF positions, and how there is a very realistic opportunity of a + 4-6 ppg improvement between those two positions. The improvement in talent level and more importantly in depth at those two positions is what is key. Corey Brewer goes from starting SG to backup SF. Gomes was efficient, but couldn’t defend SFs well at all. Wes can be counted on to duplicate Gomes’ offense and should be a clear upgrade defensively. The improvement necessary for + 3-4 points in scoring differential doesn’t require these guys to be superstars because, to be quite frank, what they’re competing against was actually that bad. It’s like the improvement we got from Darko over Hollins – it’s less about how great Darko was and more about how poor Hollins was.
So if we can expect the other positions to net about the same differential as last year (which is around zero between the PGs, PFs, and Cs, which I think doable), then our scoring differential can be expected to improve from -9.6 to perhaps -5.5 to -3.5. If you consult the chart at the top of the post you will see that that puts us solidly in the mid 20 to low 30 win range, (or to use the actual numbers from last year, a minimum of 25 wins to as high as 32 wins).
My optimism, to sum up, isn’t rooted so much in unrealistic expectations about these guys, (Wes is going to be a 20+ ppg scorer! Yes!), but rather from seeing in two preseason games (and for the entire game each time) Rambis getting these guys to play a brand of basketball that seems very well suited for maximizing their talents and potential. That’s the biggest difference between last year and this year, if what we’ve seen this preseason is any indication. Gomes/Wilkins/Brewer/Ellington was simply in no way, shape, or form, the kind of perimeter players Rambis needs to run his up-tempo system. All the other moves seem to bear this thinking in mind as well (trading Al, inserting Darko and Pek at center, acquiring Ridnour) – so far the results seem to look pretty positive. These guys are passing a ton, the right kind of guys are in the right kinds of roles… I mean, seriously, in retrospect (if what we’ve seen this preseason is what Rambis really wants to do) last year’s team looks like a Frankenstein of talents and abilities/roles within a hybrid scheme. No wonder they only won 15 games.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
by biggity2bit on Oct 12, 2010 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Thank you for this:
“The second difference is between Martell Webster and Wes Johnson and Brewer/Wilkens/Gomes. With Al gone, the focus of the team is, in my opinion, going to be recentered on the perimeter. A rotation of Webster/Wes/Ellington/Brewer is going to put up more points, more efficiently, and with significantly better defense than a rotation of Brewer/Ellington/Wilkens/Gomes.”
This is exactly what we’ve seen so far in the pre-season, and I expect it will continue. Don’t you?
Yeah I don't get the implication either
Heck if you have an opinion and your job is to write your opinion then why on Earth would you try and fake it and start saying stuff you don’t really believe in just to be positive? Heck if someone doesn’t like it, why don’t they go out and write their own fanposts trying to argue the positive themselves? Why do they need someone else to write about it?
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Oct 13, 2010 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions
There is nothing positive in what you wrote
Except about KLove. You come across as a bitter man.
by Dave T on Oct 11, 2010 7:04 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Holy shit...
If that was your attempt at being positive I’m glad I never got to read the negative version. Especially after the Vikes just lost. I’d probably have to get talked down from the roof.
Was I supposed to keep them?
Cause ya I feel like a tree murderer for ordering the damn things now…
by Timberwolf i.e. Albatross on Oct 11, 2010 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions
no strengths?
How is it not clear that this team has some legitimate depth? Eight high lottery picks that are all 3-4 years away from their prime…seriously, how could you be so down on this team?
At the risk of being overly optimistic, here’s a little list of teams that I think the Wolves are/will be/can be better than this year:
1) NJ
2) NY
3) Philly
4) Toronto
5) Cleveland
6) Detroit
7) Indiana
8) Charlotte
9) Washington
10) Sacramento
11) Golden State
12) New Orleans
13) Memphis
14) Houston
Please, before you guys call me an idiot, take a look at their rosters…they are littered with players that wouldn’t smell the floor on this Wolves squad.
I'd agree with you that we can be better than all of those teams
I’m a little more doubtful that we’ll be better than Houston, Charlotte or Indiana, but if the planets align, its possible.
I think Sacramento is going to be awful, personally
and Philly will largely be based on how good/bad Evan Turner is.
Sacto obviously comes down to your opinion of Cousins.
I think it’s legitimate to question his long-term viability as a headcase, but I do think he’s going to make noise this year and I’d bet on him finishing 2nd to Wall in the ROY voting.
I think Philly actually should be alright. Jrue Holiday is a legit starting point with a lot of upside, Iguodala is a borderline star in his prime, and they’ve got some production in the frontcourt in Speights and Craig Brackins. No, they’re not much better than an 8th or 7th seed in the East, but I think they have a clear talent edge on us.
Dude
fouled out again. Also put up something like 17 points and 10+ boards in 25 minutes.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
The biggest problem Cousins will have this season
is figuring out how to pry the damn ball away from Tyreke Evans without having to kill him first. I can see Kobe and Shaq type problems arising between those two. And they might both be too young immature to step up and sacrifice for the good of the team.
Sam Cassell for Marko Jaric? That's ridiculous! I would never have traded Sam Cassell for Marko Jaric.
- Sam Cassell on McHale's decisions while running the Timberwolves.
That would make a great storyline.
Sacramento got a lot more interesting this summer.
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
Indy…Roy Hibbert is their second best player and Tyler Hansbrough may start.
Houston/Charlotte…would need to underperform due to their mix of veterans and strong coaching…but would you even consider swapping rosters with either team…yuck.
I'd say Darren Collision is the Pacers' second best player
I like that guy quite a bit and it was definitely the Pacers’ weakest position.
Houston will largely depend on Yao Ming (as always). And no, I wouldn’t switch rosters with either of them. The Wolves definitely have a better future than either one of those two.
So much for the genius of Daryl Morey
The Pacers were nicely patient about their PG situation.
It’s a buyer’s market at that position, they were among the few teams really hurting there. They took their time, and got a nice addition.
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
I admire the Pacers' organization
Except for Lance Stephenson, they have a team with mostly quality character guys who have good talent. I loved how they kept trying last season to get wins, despite the fact that it hurt their lotto odds. I never liked the Reggie Miller Pacers or the post-brawl Pacers, but a couple of years ago, I started to like what Bird/O’Brien are doing there.
If the Wolves closed down shop tomorrow, I might choose them as my new favorite team.
This team is just such a big...
…unknown that I agree the depth should be a positive, but we have no way of knowing how they’ll all come together.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
you're right, there are a ton of unknowns
They haven’t played together much and they are very young.
All that said, the talent upgrade between this squad and any of the post KG era (particularly last season’s) is painfully obvious and enormous.
I'd like to think so...
….but it’s still a collection of (mostly) role players. Love is a legit starter, Johnson looks like a player, and Beasley has all the talent in the world, but there is a lot that has to fall their way to make an improvement close to a 30 win season. That’s a huge improvement in terms of historical precedent. It just doesn’t happen that often.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
forget the % change
This is not even remotely the same squad as last year. Go take a look at some of the putrid teams that won around 30 games last year and tell me that number is out of reach.
and maybe they are role players
But, they are high-end,starting quality role players.
To the point where I don’t think we really have a positional weakness. Which means we now in the position where we can completely focus on acquiring a go-to talent, without regard for where they play.
by DougW on Oct 11, 2010 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree...
…that there was a lot of turnover but I’m a big fan of playing the percentages and big jumps just don’t happen that often, no matter how much turnover occurs. 2 years ago Kevin McHale said that he expected the team to see a 20 win jump in the standings. I went over the probabilities of such a thing occuring here:
The probability of a 25-30% club improving their record in the following year is a hefty 73%. With a high draft pick and a full season of Al Jefferson and Randy Foye, the Wolves should be able to, at the very least, match their paltry victory total in 2007-08. Just how much they will improve is the question. The expected change in winning % for a 25-30% club is 9%, or about 7-8 wins (30-52 is a .366%). (Source: Basketball on Paper by Dean Oliver; p.111.)
…
…
…
…
…
Needless to say, there aren’t too many teams in the history of the league to sport such numbers right before a massive turnaround. The closest example I could find is the 97-98 Spurs…or, as the event is otherwise known as, When Duncan Came to Town. Barring the introduction of a historic, game changing rookie, there is nothing in the Wolves stats, roster or schedule to suggest that they are in any way, shape, or form capable of running off an additional 20 wins in the 2008-09 season. Unfortunately, as I have been saying for some time, the sudden appearance of Basketball Jesus appears to be a large part of the Blueprint. And then something magical happened…
Just to give you an idea of how rare a 20 game turnaround is, the 2003-04 Nuggets won 26 more games than the previous season, ending up with a 43-39 record. The reason why? They added Andre Miller, Carmelo Anthony, and Marcus Camby. This is the 8th greatest single-season turnaround in NBA history. (Jason Kidd and the Nets had an equal turnaround in the 2000-01 season.) The 72 win Bulls are also on this list, improving by 25 games from the year before.
It really is extraordinary to see improvements in the 15 win range. 7-8 is more in the range of what should be expected. I’m hopeful for 25 wins.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
I only made one trade on 2K11
(traded Telfair, Brewer and Koufos for Jamal Crawford) and we went 54-28. So, I think its possible. =P
That game is damn addictive
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
This ignores what we got rid of...
For crying out loud Ryan Gomes, Ryan Hollins and Corey Brewer started last year.
To use your own example…Corey Brewer went from starting to possibly 11-12th man. That team last year was not even remotely NBA quality. It was torn down to the studs.
30 wins is not that much of an achievement, and a 15 win improvement over last year’s group will be even less so.
I know it seems like no big deal...
…in relation to what they had last year, but big 15 win turnarounds simply do not happen all that often. At the end of the day, how much more production per 100 possessions does Martell Webster give over Ryan Gomes? Will Nikola Pekovic eclipse Ryan Hollins’ production at the 4/5 in his rookie year in a completely different league? Can Mike Beasley man the 3 at the same level of efficiency as he did at the 5 and with a higher usage rate? My point is that once you start to plug a lot of these new players into the very specific roles that they will play, it becomes a far more complex problem than just saying that a talent upgrade = a lot more wins. In theory, it should happen. This team tanked last year and 10-15 wins should be there in theory. In practice, I’ll bet with the historical averages.
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Well..
….here’s hoping that Ronzone is a wookie.
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Raaaaaaaarrrrrgh!
I said Horizontal Boosters!
by aarendsvark on Oct 11, 2010 11:15 PM CDT up reply actions
You keep talking but
You’re not convincing anyone. There is no slightest relationship between this year’s team and last year’s. Last year’s team was putrid and embarrassing. This year’s team has a future. Stop living in the past.
by Dave T on Oct 11, 2010 7:30 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I would also add
It really is extraordinary to see improvements in the 15 win range. 7-8 is more in the range of what should be expected. I’m hopeful for 25 wins.
15 wins for the season is also a major outlier. Since 1946 there have only been 35 teams to win 15 games or less. Since the league expanded to, what, 28 teams 15 years ago, that’s 420 potential opportunities to alone, making 15 wins a less than 3.57 % outcome in the last 15 years (in other words, an outlier). If you bump that number up to 25 wins, then suddenly you get 191 teams. And if you go all the way to 30 wins, you get 334 teams. The point is that, at least statistically, it’s far more likely for a bad team to get around 20-25 wins (perhaps regardless of talent and system) then for that same team to only get 15. All of which is a roundabout way of suggesting that perhaps a 7-8 game improvement is likely, but that it might also be reasonable to assume that this team is, at base, a 20-25 win team (and certainly not the team that only won 15 games last year, what with the dramatic overhaul in the roster). Nearly 57% of the minutes played last year are gone, and of those remaining Jonny and Corey are not going to play anywhere near what they did last year. So perhaps we are at base a 20-25 win squad, or perhaps this squad ‘improves’ on that hypothetical (yet statistically informed) base and wins 28-33 games this year.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
Very good point..
….and it kind of tips my hand in terms of how I view the team’s place in the 15-win canyon of heroes. Either they massively (possibly purposefully) underperformed or nobody has a clue what they are doing. Maybe it’s a combination of the two. I think they started last season thinking they were going to win as many games as they could and the whole “we’re just sharpening the ax” line of thinking kind of developed itself as a talking point as the season wore on. 15 wins is a historical outlier but I think they were legitimately awful on quite a few fronts.
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Which is worst
Legitimately terrible or deceiptful? Neither is pleasant for the team you root for.
by aarendsvark on Oct 11, 2010 11:17 PM CDT up reply actions
I hold out hope
that we can be the 04-05 Bulls. That team jumped from 24 to 47 wins. They had no established stars just a lot of new young players that were high picks,
Their top 8 in minutes played were
Hinrich 24
Chandler 22
Duhon 22
Gordon 21
Nocioni 25
Davis 36
Curry 22
Deng 19
Wasn't that a Scott Skiles bump?
They went from 16th best to 2nd best defensively. He did the same thing with Milwaukee, helping them jump from 30th in the league to 15th best the first year he took over. Once he wears out his welcome in Milwaukee, Kahn and Rambis need to go after him hard to bring him on board as an assistant. He really knows how to coach defense.
by Rascal Flatts on Oct 11, 2010 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Perhaps so
but look at the talent he was dealt. Skiles has turned seemingly mundane rosters into outstanding defensive units. He hasn’t had the luxury of a player like Kobe (or KG to use an example closer to home) to provide on the floor leadership.
by Rascal Flatts on Oct 12, 2010 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Particularly Milwaukee – Skiles really turned that defense up.
There are personnel explanations – the injury to Michael Redd, acquiring Salmons – but Skiles gets some credit for that turnaround on D.
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
That's what I was thinking too
It’s unusual to see a massive losing-to-winning turnaround in one year, but it’s also unusual to see a 90% roster turnover in one year
If we're talking about why Al's gone, defense is probably a bigger point than pace.
Not that the latter didn’t matter, but Jefferson defensively….
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
Challenge to SNP
Write a season preview without talking at all about Kahn’s incompetance, past draft picks, Rambis’s poor coaching etc.
A season preview is about the upcoming season! How about a little excitement? Sure, this team is far from a contender, but it should be loads better than last year and much, much more fun to watch!
I think that's a good idea...
….and I’ll put something up.
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I was hoping for some ideas to come out of the back and forth...
…in the comments of this post.
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Here is a suggestion
The post above does a good job of explaining your position on whether Kahn has used his assets wisely or optimally. That is a very reasonable thing to do. You also question how he arrives at his decisions and how much is based on luck. That is also very much fair game.
For a followup post, though, it might be enlightening to completely ignore all of that. Ignore what picks were involved, what alternatives seemed to be available, etc. Ignore all of the how regarding the current roster.
Just compare the pre-Kahn roster to the current roster, analyzing the results on a few factors, such as:
- Does the roster fit the vision that Kahn and Rambis have espoused?
- Current outlook in terms of wins/losses
- Future outlook in terms of wins/losses
- Cap outlook
I realize this is somewhat irresponsible. Clearly if the team had the top 10 picks in the draft and $50 million in cap space they would be much more improved than if they had no picks and no cap space. So cost is relevant. But it is somewhat liberating to step back, look at the big picture, and determine if the ship is heading into the right direction.
As a small aside, I would guess that if you got some of the behind the scenes stuff on other teams, not all would be good. Knicks, Warriors, Blazers, Bobcats, Pacers, Clippers … there are a whole host of teams that I must honestly say I don’t know what the f#$* they are doing.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Oct 11, 2010 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions
good idea...
…and i definitely think there are other teams with equally dysfunctional behind-the-scenes action. i also know that there are teams who have their stuff together on a level unimagined by our favorite franchise.
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My favorite example of dysfunction is the Spurs.
Obviously not the regime in place from roughly Duncan’s drafting on. But before that? San Antonio made a series of bizarre decisions that burned years off David Robinson’s career pointlessly. Red McCombs was the owner for some of that, of course, and took his bargain basement approach to running the franchise in many ways. They were whacked for a good while, there, despite decent enough talent.
Just the history of their coaching hires…. When you hire a new coach while the old one’s about to go into a playoff series, that would be the old S.A. Spurs. Or before the 1994-95 season, they waited to see who the Wolves would take as a coach (Bill Blair), and then they took the other guy (Bob Hill). That was how the decision got described. Or how about John Lucas – “coach rehab,” known for helping players deal with substance abuse and similar problems? Hired to coach a team of Boy Scouts including D-Rob, he wound up not participating in huddles during timeouts. Head coach: not in huddle. They traded for Rodman the next year, and it was almost like they needed a basket case for Lucas to coach. Very, very weird.
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
I'd love to see a look at the options we have at the 2 and 3
There’s Webster, Brewer, Beasley, and Ellington isn’t too bad.
by aarendsvark on Oct 11, 2010 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions
In addition to what is quoted below
Challenge to SNP
Write a season preview without talking at all about Kahn’s incompetence, past draft picks, Rambis’s poor coaching etc.
Also – Be sure not to include prior history of the team (i.e. focus on the 15 wins not 67 losses), players that could have been drafted, incorrect moves by the FO, any flaws in any of the players’ games, deceitful statements by management, and be sure to leave out any snark, snide, sneer or viewpoint that is not shared by management and the faithful soldiers on this board. Remember, the sky is always blue, your computer can be turned into chocolate, and Jessica Alba is still available and interested if this whole “marriage” thing doesn’t work out
Is just disinformation…
by Son of Gerald Green on Oct 12, 2010 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think Pangloss
did mention Jessica Alba in one of the footnotes.
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That footnote in its entirety:
“Jessica Alba’s acting, like Cunégonda, is half-assed.”
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
This actual seems pretty fair
I don’t have much faith in Kahn or his drafting. If I believed he was the only voice in personnel decisions I’d be a Thunder fan tomorrow. I do like his cap management, coaching hires and radio silence. I agree it’s hard to get a real sense of strengths or weakness as this team has no history, but I am cautiously optimistic. My optimism maybe misplaced, but it’s there because the roster overhaul has been so complete I feel basically like we are watching a new expansion team. I will lose hope if Rambis appears to be a moron at the end of this year or we find ourselves stuck over the cap.
I understand the pessimism
Writing about politics in a world gone mad where phonies get all the press (and in fact have their own network dedicated to carrying it), I can appreciate despair and hopelessness. But not about the Wolves.
This is my break from the cruel hoax that is reality. With the Wolves I can hope, but no one gets hurt (like we will this fall if the crazies elect enough Birthers to Congress).
Keeping the faith in the face of disillusionment and economic dismemberment.
How about this:
I’m a Timberwolf Tea Partier. I’ve had it with the establishment but I’m optimistic that there is still hope for what is left on the court. It’s not a perfect analogy but I think my pessimism is aimed squarely at the front office/ownership while still wanting (and hoping…possibly even expecting) to enjoy the actual play. That’s what I was going for here.
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And just like the Tea Party, you are blaming Kahn (Obama) for destroying the team (economy), when in fact it was McHale (Bush) who created most of the mess.
The problem...
….is that the blame doesn’t matter when the anger is legit. People want change and it is perfectly understandable for people to take out their (legit) anger on someone who campaigned on that slogan. At least that’s how I feel about Kahn. I feel about Obama the way Jon Stewart put it: he campaigned as a visionary and has led as a functionary…turning “change” into a meaningless political concept. Same thing goes for Kahn. Don’t forget that McHale set the table for the draft picks and cap space. At least Hoiberg and Stack did. Things have been so bad for so long with this team that I was expecting some very big cultural changes that simply haven’t materialized. The roster has flipped, but this is still Papa Glen’s baby.
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I like your take on Obama
He tries to much not to fight.
Change as cynical marketing slogan
Good analogy. When you expose your (successful) slogan as having been cynical marketing BS and little more, you make your audience less likely to believe in the concepts of hope/change in that context.
If only people would have been as skeptical about hope/change as we are about “run with the wolves” in the first place.
by onthekubelwagen on Oct 11, 2010 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions
This place is toast
It has nothing to do with Obama. We had 30 years of bad econmic policies . Free trade when everybody else does not do free trade. we have not built any new infrastructure in 50 years and our schools are bad and our health care system is one of the most inefficient in the world.
by chuckd@79 on Oct 11, 2010 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
agreed
Not sure if “toast” is the word I’d use, but certainly the arc of the US political/economic establishment is pointed well away from the interests of ordinary people here and has been for decades. We need independent political movements.
by onthekubelwagen on Oct 11, 2010 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Americans are too lazy for that.
The last time something like that happen was in 60’s. All the leaders of those movements got killed. Face it we are like the Romans and I know that the anglo saxon dominance of the world is over.
Quick
What’s the difference between President Obama and Kahn? Kahn actually turned it around in two years.
by Winston Wolf on Oct 11, 2010 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes
But I’m drinking the Kool Aid hard. Just look at the roster, cap space, and most importantly no bad contracts before a potential “hard cap”. Two things that should not be overlooked 1) Kahn will not be deep in the red financially 2) we will not be hampered in future years with expensive nonperforming assets.
by Winston Wolf on Oct 11, 2010 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Per the thread
I think President Obama’s equivalent to Kahn would have been ending the wars and knocking a couple trillion of the national debt. Basically saying we still might be hosed with the current unemployment but the future looks better than the past. The past isn’t my fault but I fixing it.
by Winston Wolf on Oct 11, 2010 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Kahn's "five windows of opportunity"
have come to a close. He laid out the period from his hiring until now as the time in which he promised to remake the roster. We feel good about this end result? I guess I feel like a lot of assumptions are being made about things that are only questionable.
The bottom line is that, based on these players’ track records, we should be terrible. Now, most of them have a chance to improve, but I think all the talk about how we should win 30 and could win 40 assumes almost a best-case scenario for all of them.
Agree
The best predictor of future performance is past performance. The rosy win scenarios are based on multiple guys having career years. Sure, it could happen, but it’s highly doubtful. What is more likely is that a couple of players indeed do have career years, a couple of players take a step backwards and are actually less productive than we predict (remember Sessions last year?), and most of the others perform at about the same level they have in the past. I agree we should be a better team, but I think something along the lines of 20 – 25 wins is a fair assessment.
by Rascal Flatts on Oct 11, 2010 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions
What track records?
I’m not among those who think they’ll get to even 30 wins, but players with less than 3 years of experience don’t have track records. Obviously, this counts out guys like Webster and Darko, but 1 or 2 seasons is in no way enough to evaluate a player’s ability.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Oct 12, 2010 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions
Webster, Darko, Ridnour...
Wesley’s college track record (solid, not great) and I guess if Beasley’s two years subjectively don’t count, then not him, but…
Living in Asia...
Is great. The people are coming over here by the boat loads, and the most of the people I know who have moved back to the US can’t wait to come back to Asia.
SNP:
I think an article strictly comparing last year to this year would be cool.
Seriously
there’s something to be said for non-English speaking countries:
1) the food is better (insanely so)
2) fewer Americans bloviating on the tube/radio
3) the food is better
Keeping the faith in the face of disillusionment and economic dismemberment.
Corollary to #2:
People don’t shout everything they say.
Americans don’t realize how many sour faces they get elsewhere just because they’re so danged loud. People in Paris are almost ridiculously polite compared to any New Yorker – compare the French and New Jersey flight crews from that vacation. But Americans think French people are horribly rude, because the French people are in a state of shock over being screamed at.
Old London “Tube” joke sound file, by the woman who did all their PA announcements: ""We’d like to remind our American tourist friends that you are almost certainly talking too loud."
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
Wait
is Asia a country? Last I checked it’s an incredibly diverse, expansive, and just all around massive continent with billions of people. The only generalization that can be made about Asia is that it’s big.
by Rascal Flatts on Oct 11, 2010 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions
and...
…that you shouldn’t start land wars there.
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by Stop-n-Pop on Oct 11, 2010 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Inconceivable
"Silence is golden but duct tape is silver." ---Anon.
by uncle rico on Oct 11, 2010 11:55 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I do not think that means what you think it means.
Sam Cassell for Marko Jaric? That's ridiculous! I would never have traded Sam Cassell for Marko Jaric.
- Sam Cassell on McHale's decisions while running the Timberwolves.
by ynotsema2 on Oct 12, 2010 12:41 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
He got the line spot on!
What else did they mean in The Princess Bride (I think that was it)?
He did get the line right.
My response was that of Andre The Giant’s character (Fezzig) after the Man in Black had done several things that Vezzini thought were inconceivable.
Sam Cassell for Marko Jaric? That's ridiculous! I would never have traded Sam Cassell for Marko Jaric.
- Sam Cassell on McHale's decisions while running the Timberwolves.
Princess Bride references always get rec's.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Thank you. Also, Africa is not one place or culture.
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
This piece pretty well captured my feelings about the Wolves
As for the upcoming season…frankly, I’m still pretty pessimistic, in large part because this team is unbelievably young. Teams this young rarely win very many games, and at this point, I’m with SnP: I want exciting, entertaining basketball, which means at least some decent amount of winning.
Maybe they will come together in a Grizz-esque sort of way, but I won’t hold my breath for that.
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on Oct 11, 2010 2:41 PM CDT reply actions
That's why I love the Luke Ridnour signing
If there’s any one player that can make a cohesive unit out of 10 young kids, it’s Ridnour
While I am happy
with the Ridnour signing, the above statement must be in the running for biggest hyperbole in the thread.
I think the difference between Beasley and Cousins was...
….they felt one fit the system, while the other didn’t. Whether or not that’s true remains to be seen, but I don’t see that as the team just being hypocritical.
Personally, I think Kahn has a very definite plan in mind. He has a system he wants to see run and a coach that can teach and run it, and everything he’s doing is to get the right players for that system. Which I think he’s done a very good job of, considering the players he’s acquired.
I think the issue here isn’t that he’s doing a bad job or doesn’t know what he’s doing. It’s that the WAY he wants to do things is different than the way some CHers would do things. As I’ve said before, the sticking point on CH ultimately boils down to system versus BPA (of which S-n-P is very clearly on the BPA side of), but I personally believe it doesn’t matter which comes first in the end.
By my eye, in the more modern era at least, system teams (Bulls, Lakers, Celtics, Spurs) do much better over a longer period of time than “player” teams like the Hornets, Hawks, Mavs, Rockets and ehem Cavaliers
The kicker...
…with system teams (at least the ones you mention) is that they all seem to come equipped with crazy good players. Jordan (and Pippen), Kobe (and Shaq), The Trio, and Timmeh are the ultimate examples of BPAs. Talent is the key in the NBA. You need to have great players to win at a high level.
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True
But how do you know if DMC is not a taller al jefferson
They have completey different games....
DMC is an overpowering, high energy, efficient rebounder who wants to punch you in the mouth.
Al Jefferson is a crafty low post scorer who generally avoids contact.
DMC will not be overpowering
He is not big enough . He looked big in college but in the pros not so much. He is 6-9 with out shoes. this is 1/2 bigger than big al. That is why he fouls a lot. cant overpower people like he did in school
Nobody plays...
…with the top of their head. Wingspan and reach are what matters. He’s definitely going to need to learn how not to foul (and to get in enough service time so the refs give him some benefit of the doubt) but he’s legitimately huge.
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And strong
His upper body is built
It’ll be interesting to see how the Kings compliment him. Or Evans. They’re sort of our opposite….lots of talent, but none of it seems to fit together and they don’t seem to have a plan on how to get there
However,
height does dictate eye level to some extent. And the ability to see the basket is imperative to scoring with efficiency, isn’t it? I don’t know how strong a correlation there is between these things, but common sense would tend to indicate that a 7’0" player with a 7’8" wingspan would be able to shoot better than a 6’9" player with a 7’8" wingspan simply by virtue of being less likely to have their line of sight to the basket blocked by a taller player’s head.
On that subject, why is it that more players don’t play with a massive afro? Wouldn’t it make sense to try to artificially obscure an opponent’s vision by wearing your hair in such a massive puff that it blocks out the sun? I’m sure they could use enough gel and hairspray to ensure that it never ends up getting in their eyes. I wonder why nobody has tried it. Ben Wallace used to wear his afro pretty high, but I feel like it could have been bigger.
Sam Cassell for Marko Jaric? That's ridiculous! I would never have traded Sam Cassell for Marko Jaric.
- Sam Cassell on McHale's decisions while running the Timberwolves.
A more appropriate example
would be comparing a 6’9’’ player with a 7’8’’ wingspan with a 7’ player with a 7’5’’ wingspan. This should give them a relatively equivalent standing reach, which is what the initial debate was about.
Apart from that, I agree that, if nothing else, Beasley should at least bring back his afro or whatever it was he had going.
You're not letting natural selection take its course! You're like the guy who invented the seatbelt...
Combine numbers differ with your "not big enough" take.
He basically measured out with NBA center size in every category that matters. Look back to the “Comparing Combine Measures” post before the draft. First comment:
Cousins has legit NBA 5 length. That helps, although his weight does not. (C’mon, man, you can’t show up in shape?) Favors could probably play the 5 with his reach, as well. Nice.
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
DMC is 6'9.5" without shoes.
Which is the same height as alonzo mourning, and he has amazing length. His most amazing feature is his lateral agility. He is amazingly quick for a guy his size.
by Are we cursed? on Oct 11, 2010 9:59 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
He has "legit" center size...
just not anything special, there. If his size advantage was a big reason for his (per-minute) college dominance, it’s reasonable to question whether that will continue in the NBA. He will be “legit” now, compared to being “huge” in college ball.
I think what gives him an advantage
is his aggressiveness and nose for the ball and basket. You can’t teach that stuff. To me a more apt comparison might be a bigger version of Kevin Love, in that he invites contact around the bucket but has the length to avoid getting his shot blocked. And he loves to rebound. He just makes such an impact when he is on the floor. He can’t help but get his mitts on the ball. If only Darko had Cousins’ take no prisoners attitude while on the floor.
by Rascal Flatts on Oct 12, 2010 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions
It's a good thing
that Pek does have DMC’s no prisoner’s attitude. This ball club definitely needs a big man who’ll flatten a few guys during the course of a game. I really do wonder how Cousins is going to do this year. There are a lot of legit guys just the same size or bigger than he is in the West this year. It’ll be a real fun challenge for him.
The other thing I was going to point out is:
I think what gives him an advantage is his aggressiveness and nose for the ball and basket. You can’t teach that stuff.
Proof: Hollins, Ryan.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
Yes...
and that kind of stuff is what made him a lottery pick. But lottery pick is different from “generational talent.” If he were allowed to match up with college posts, he’d be dropping 25 & 15 on a regular basis. Let’s say he’s got “legit” center size and some skills to go with that. He’s got the makings of a good NBA center — perhaps an All-Star (Chris Kaman just made it, after all.) I just think that his massive size advantage in college overshadowed some of his limitations and that he’ll be a good — but not necessarily great — pro. If he were 2-3" taller, his size advantage would be noticeable in the NBA.
I don't..
….but I like my chances when comparing the college production of DMC to players of that size in the past. Guys that big, that productive, and that talented just don’t come along that often.
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by Stop-n-Pop on Oct 11, 2010 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Which is as much luck as it is skill
The Bulls don’t get Jordan if the Blazers don’t take Bowie. The Spurs don’t get Duncan if the Admiral doesn’t miss the previous season. You’ve said yourself many times how Sam Presti isn’t Sam Presti if the Blazers take Durant.
We had a chance at DMC, no question. It remains to be seen what will become of that. Personally I don’t think the gap between Wes and Cousins is anywhere near the gap between Roy and Foye. Nor am I ready to anoint Cousins as the next Hakeem. NOR am I going to write this team off because it decided to do things differently than I would have.
Rubio has yet to play with this team, and as you said before, Kahn could very easily luck into Harrison Barnes or Perry Jones. And then he’s a de facto genius. I think we’d all agree that Deryll Morey is a better basketball mind than Mitch Kupcek, but which one of them landed Pau Gasol? Sometimes it’s better to be lucky than good.
I'll stick with my First Theory of NBA General Managing
45-55 wins is skill. Anything more is luck.
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It takes a whole lot of luck...
….to land historically great players. You obviously have to be good to make it all work (see McHale, Kevin as an example how to flub a shot at a historically great player) but yeah, luck matters a lot at that level.
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I guess I just feel genuinely more optimistic about this team than most of CH
Whether he did it intentionally or by accident, Kahn has assembled a very telented roster which should be exciting to watch and should produce a lot more wins than last year.
DMC could certainly be a disaster for us, no doubt, but again, I don’t feel like it’s going to be like Roy/Foye. That trade sent away franchise talent for a guy who’s a semi-competent backup at best. Wes may not be a superstar, but he’s much much better than an 9th or 9th man off the bench.
"Kahn has assembled a very telented roster"
How can you make that statement? Most of the players on the team (other than Love) would be considered to be ranked in the bottom half of the league at their particular position. Some (like Flynn) would be ranked behind some back-ups (like Ridnour).
You could be right, but I don’t see how—at least (and especially) until the actual games are played.
I think they'd get ranked low by production
By talent level, I think they’d get ranked pretty high.
A guy like Michael Beasley is going to fall in the middle of the small forward/power forward crowd in terms of what he’s done so far in the NBA, but in terms of what he COULD do or what he COULD be in a few years, the sky is the limit.
I honestly believe this is the most talented roster the Wolves have ever had. Even the KG/Spree/Cassell years weren’t this talented. But obviously we’re very very young and most of that talent hasn’t become skill and production yet…..hopefully it will
Fair point
It is true that this roster has upside built into it. But that doesn’t mean it gets realized. And some might even regress.
by Rascal Flatts on Oct 11, 2010 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions
By this defintion
any roster with Ryan Hollins has the most talented roster in the league.
You're not letting natural selection take its course! You're like the guy who invented the seatbelt...
Sorry TA
It’s just that your brain is on such a different level than mine that I can’t quite convey a joke to you.
Though to be fair, talent seems to be a synonym for potential for how he is using it. Ryan Hollins has boatloads of potential. Just a very very low chance of ever reaching it or coming anywhere remotely close. If this is not how it is being used, well I think he should look up the definition for talent, which is more closely associated with actual production than their ability to be talented some day.
You're not letting natural selection take its course! You're like the guy who invented the seatbelt...
Why didn't you just say that the first time?
Interesting double standard we’ve got going on here. I love it. You…complete me. =)
I love you, Tim.
You're not letting natural selection take its course! You're like the guy who invented the seatbelt...
The system could be enough to improve immediately
The 01-02 Pistons won with Ben Wallace and Jerry Stackhouse as their best players. The post-Malone/Stockton, pre-Boozer/Williams Jazz finished 1 game out of the playoffs (42-40). It’s in no way a pre-req for improvement and is mostly about consistent effort and players who fit the system. Maybe it’s not a team with championship potential, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all to see them finish ahead of more-talented teams that rely too much on talent to win and just don’t have enough of it (Kings).
by pagingstanleyroberts on Oct 11, 2010 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions
I think just having talent to finish the playbook will improve our win total a ton this year
Last year, the Lakers would pretty regularly comment that we executed the triangle well. We just didn’t have the athletes and shooters to get buckets out of it. Now we do
The difference between Beasley and Cousins
was the cost of bringing them aboard. One of them required the 4th overall pick, the other just 2 second round picks. Hypocrisy has little to do with it.
agreed
Beasley is a near-freebie in terms of assets, making his maturity and motivation questions easier to deal with.
Next thing you know, they'll take my thoughts away.
I think that's the reasonable take..
….and I can live with it. I just don’t think that it had anything to do with why the Wolves chose one path over the other.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
I'm not convinced
that SnP is a BPA guy. He’s just a BPA guy when the team was so bad the previous season that the talent cupboard must be bare. I get the feeling that he would much rather draft for fit if the team’s own draft pick was in the 20-30 range. But so long as it remains in the 1-10 range I think SnP would rather accumulate BPA’s and hope one becomes a KG caliber franchise changer.
Sam Cassell for Marko Jaric? That's ridiculous! I would never have traded Sam Cassell for Marko Jaric.
- Sam Cassell on McHale's decisions while running the Timberwolves.
I agree with that
Lotto picks shouldn’t be used on anything but BPA. 15 win teams don’t get to worry about fit.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
More ridiculous examples
Defintion of system teams: Teams that have/had Jordan, Pippen, Kobe, Shaq, Gasol, Duncan, Ginobli, and KG, Pierce, and Allen? Is that really the definition of system teams? If anything your example of system teams includes only teams that are both system and player teams.
The Rockets aren’t a system team? Utah? I find it strange that your system teams all include one or more of the top 5 players of their era while the player teams don’t. Lebron and CP3? Arguably for CP3. Joe Johnson, Dirk, and Yao? Maybe the top 5 players at their position…
You're not letting natural selection take its course! You're like the guy who invented the seatbelt...
Should be an interesting season...
I agree that last year was a total joke. It’s unfortunate that our tank-fest didn’t land any type of sure-thing superstar of a draft pick. I don’t think Cousins was the guy, but Johnson won’t be, either. He’s a nice player and should have a place on a good team, but like Kahn and all of the fans realize, we’re still missing that A1 Piece. Let’s hope our first lottery luck comes in 2011—and not 2012, when we lose our pick.
Before I go all suicidal on the Kahn Drafts, I need to see Steph Curry and DeMarcus Cousins have an impact on team success in the NBA. That’s what Brandon Roy did. I admit that Curry looks good, out there. But, he hasn’t really been tested in a competitive environment, yet. I have no idea if he can generate scoring in close games against good defense. I have no idea if he can play tough defense, on the ball. He sure can shoot it, though.
On Beasley, I was happy with the trade, because of his potential as a scorer. I’m not sure what his role is, though. Does he start at the 3? The 4? Does that put Wes Johnson on the bench? I think I’d rather have Wes in there at small forward than Beasley — at least for the bulk of minutes. He’s a better pure jumpshooter and almost-definitely a better defender of that position. I’m not sure how I feel about B-Easy’s joke-around attitude. Seems like a genuinely nice guy, but I can’t tell if he’d be annoying to be around for long stretches or if that’s just an act when the camera is around. Frankly, he seems a little obnoxious, but maybe that’s just a show.
I mentioned this the other day, and I’m sure most of the posters disagree, but I think there’s a reasonable chance that this is Kevin Love’s final season in Minnesota. I feel this way for a few different reasons:
1) I think Michael Beasley will challenge him for the starting power forward spot, over the course of the season. Love will not want to come off the bench any more than he did, last year.
2) I think the Wolves are going to lose a lot more than they win, this year. Love hates losing and will grow tired of Minnesota, flying under the radar with his high PER.
3) Next year’s draft is power forward heavy. We’ll add Rubio at point guard. We just added a small forward. Power forward might be a position that we look for an upgrade.
Something to consider. Should be interesting, as always (well, not last year…)
We'll have to see on Love
SnP should at least give credit to the front office and Rambis for picking the right PF (Jefferson) to unload and keeping Love around.
by Rascal Flatts on Oct 11, 2010 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with that...
…they chose the right guy. Didn’t even think to put it in the post. Good catch.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Yeah
But I also get where you are coming from in general. A WTF moment was Kahn’s free agency romance with guys like David Lee and Rudy Gay. Was he really interested in these guys or was he just driving up their price? If he was really thinking about paying Gay big $ to come to Minny, that would have been a pretty big disappointment. He may end up being an accidental genius – driving Gay’s price up for Memphis to eat and then getting essentially the same player in Beasley for one-third the price.
by Rascal Flatts on Oct 11, 2010 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions
There's literally...
…no rhyme or reason to anything he does. It’s all just whatever is available in front of him at any given point in time. He has to “work hard” because it’s all on the fly…for better and/or worse.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
I cling to the hope
that he is a savvy (albeit arrogant) executive and his courtship of Gay and Lee was purely to drive up their price and build a positive vibe with agents and other future free agent players, so that when there is someone we really want, he has a fighting chance to get that player. But yeah, if he was genuinely interested in signing those guys, then ugh, he really is just stumbling along and changing for the sake of change.
by Rascal Flatts on Oct 11, 2010 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions
I think David lee would have been a better fit than love is
If we really want to be a runing team I would rather have Lee than Love
He's looking at...
…at least Noah money if they get close to .500 in 2 years.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Who knows what the CBA will look like in 2 years.
With (likely) another lottery pick and (hopefully) Rubio in the fold, a lot can change. Decisions on the whole roster (minus Flynn and Wes) will have to be made before floating 10mil+ to Love.
Great and understated point. With Rubio plus a new top 5 player, the wolves will have unbelievable ability to improve and to make a big deal.
Dave
by Dave Mulvihill on Oct 11, 2010 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Part of the issue with being a Timberwolves fan...
Is that years of Kevin McHale’s ineptitude has sapped all of our “Fire ‘insert GM’” attitude. We all know how long it takes for Glen Taylor to get rid of someone who sucks, so why get all hot and bothered again over Kahn when we might be in this thing for the long haul.
Our best bet is to just hope and pray that this year is at least somewhat more entertaining then the last 3 years that we have had to sit through.
I think it is sad that a this is how A Wolves Fan Site puts out a Season Preview
We have a lot of work to do sure…but Fans are supposed to optimistic, and an article like this actually took my excitement for the season down…
There is a difference between being a realistic fan and what was written above.
by Timberwolf i.e. Albatross on Oct 11, 2010 3:39 PM CDT reply actions
Fair point
but I have to say that SnP’s venom resonated with me to a degree. We as fans should feel duped about last season. I remember watching those last few games where we were playing our lotto picks against lineups filled with D-Leaguers, undrafted FAs, and 2nd rounders (Golden State and Detroit in particular), where we already had the 2nd worst record sealed up, and we still couldn’t win. It was a total embarrassment and to me the fault lies squarely on Kahn and Rambis’s shoulders.
by Rascal Flatts on Oct 11, 2010 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions
So why not be excited about whole new line up?
Why not put out a season preview for the masses, which is what it is it’s not for us it’s for others, that says “Hey, we were trash last year, but this year we have a whole new team with a ton more talent that fits a scheme. So far we have been competitive and fun to watch.”
This article just tells the rest of the team sites that we are as beaten down as they think we should be based on what national media has done to our name for the last 5 months.
It’s just sad that this article represents this sites “Collective Opinion” of this next season.
by Timberwolf i.e. Albatross on Oct 11, 2010 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions
It's only sad..
….if you think that stuff actually matters.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Well if you don't think it matters maybe you shouldn't write it
That is a real poor attitude to have.
You don’t seem to realize that this collection of blogs is actually a serious thing in the NBA Community. Did anyone expect a glowing review from you or anyone? No. What we expected was something that didn’t sound like you got dumped by Kahn just before the big dance.
You spent a 3rd of this article in the past, another 3rd saying how you don’t know what will happen and the last 3rd convincing us it won’t be good.
Way to set the season off right from the Number one wolves blog
by Timberwolf i.e. Albatross on Oct 11, 2010 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think it matters..
…what other sites think of it. I also don’t think much of measuring differing definitions of what it means to be a fan. If this is that serious, than count me out.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
I guess I just may be missing something...
if this is your show and I’m just tuning in then I’ll switch the channel…but I was under the impression that this site was a collective site and that some public review of our future might actually take in the site’s opinion as a whole. This article does not accurately reflect our opinion as a whole of how we feel about this upcoming year…it’s just sad that it doesn’t matter now is all.
I could be wrong…I just feel the world didn’t need another wolves bashing article in it is all.
by Timberwolf i.e. Albatross on Oct 11, 2010 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions
I've always thought that this was SnP's (and wyn's) show
I don’t need him to write articles that reflect the majority opinion. I, like you, thought this post was a little “Debbie Downer” for my liking. But he can write what he wants without worrying about what I think.
by TimAllen on Oct 11, 2010 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well then pie in my eye I guess
Then my only response is I’m sorry.
Wish SnP has some more good vibes right now.
by Timberwolf i.e. Albatross on Oct 11, 2010 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I should have made it clearer..
….but the point of the post was to make and end of the Debbie Downer take on this site. Mission Not Accomplished on that front.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
It is definitely a collective site..
…and typically what has happened in the past is that there is some back and forth in the comments and if someone has a differing view in the fan posts I bump it up to the main page. I’m not trying to be chippy, but the last thing I think about when writing on this site is what other sites will think about it.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Can I at least get you to say this team is deffinately less funny looking than last years?
by Timberwolf i.e. Albatross on Oct 11, 2010 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Even the box scores were a freak show last year.
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
Coming to the site as not-a-huge-basketball-fan
I think SnP/Wyn have encouraged and regularly highlighted contributions from other users like Oceanary, without enforcing some kind of party line about the team. If somebody wrote a comprehensive and positive “season preview” piece I bet it would get on the front page.
Plus: since when do fans “have” to be positive? I say to each his/her own. No false cheerleading. That’s for timberwolves.com to do.
by onthekubelwagen on Oct 11, 2010 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions
timberwolves.com is only good to schedules...
Not much fact in there at all I agree.
by Timberwolf i.e. Albatross on Oct 11, 2010 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions
There have been a few positive season previews.
Maybe the one I wrote was too early (it was shortly after the signing of Pekovic), but others have written them as well. Most of what I read on this site tends to be upbeat and optimistic about the future of Timberwolves basketball. Granted there are some articles that take a more realistic view with a pessimistic eye towards the past and the future. However, I have yet to read something on this blog with anywhere near the negativity that I hear when conversing with non-wolves fans about the outlook of this franchise. Just my observations, for whatever they are worth.
Sam Cassell for Marko Jaric? That's ridiculous! I would never have traded Sam Cassell for Marko Jaric.
- Sam Cassell on McHale's decisions while running the Timberwolves.
Unlike most people here, apparently
I come for a great writer’s/mind’s opinion (and the many great comments as well), whether it jives with mine or not.
One thing I cannot forgive, though? The incorrect use of ‘than’ from the supposedly ‘great’ writer/mind. Come on SnP… up your game or I’m changing the channel!
You're not letting natural selection take its course! You're like the guy who invented the seatbelt...
Wait, did someone claim this?
It’s just sad that this article represents this sites "Collective Opinion" of this next season.
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
Uhh . . . .
yeah, a bunch of us approved each word before SnP typed it. He had us over to his house over a long, beer-filled weekend. His wife made us pancakes on Saturday morning, and Eggs Benedict on Sunday, bless her heart. We all brought cots and blankets, but we didn’t get much sleep. Too much work to do.
But in the end, I think it was worth it. Quite frankly, I was surprised you weren’t there. Did you check your “spam” filter?
Anyhoo, now that We’ve established The Collective Wisdom, it’s expected that everyone will follow it completely. It helps avoid a lot of arguments.
Oh good, no more dissension
Now I can go over to the Twins blog until April.
You’re saying you were over at S-n-P’s for a long, beer-filled weekend, sleeping on cots and blankets, and there wasn’t any fighting over the pancakes?
We got some good chemistry going on this year, and no mistake.
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
I'm just disappointed
that after all that work, and finally reaching consensus on the full text of that post, that we could not agree on a mission statement. Like I said over lunch Sunday, we’ll never get anywhere without a mission statement.
Keep your chin up.
We’ll cover it at the retreat in February in Ibiza. I checked at the hotel and there are still a few suites available. Mr. Taylor has once again graciously agreed to pay for our rooms and incidentals, and we will of course be flying on his private 767 (Hopefully we can keep MAYN HOLLUP out of the cockpit this year!).
Still no confirmation on whether Ricky will join us, but he did say “It’s always been a dream of mine to get there some day.”
That's fine and good
but since you were not willing to reschedule the retreat to accommodate my committment to the Trilateral Commission meeting in Bucharest you know that my input will be missing. And frankly, after our little dust up over the proposed use of the term “spastic” to describe Corey Brewer in the write-up, I’m not so sure that the scheduling is not fully intentional on your part.
Sadly, I have to attend a Department of Redundancy Department meeting
… again.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Oct 12, 2010 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions
It's preseason
So even if we win, it comes with a big caveat. Yeah, I’m excited, but I was also excited a couple years ago when we went 6-3 or something like that, only to hugely disappoint in the regular season. I just want the regular season to start to see what we really have. Pre-season only tells you so much.
by Rascal Flatts on Oct 11, 2010 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Summer league, pre-season, regular season, whatever
Real games are still 100x more fun than talking about the games
agreed..
….and I’m excited for the tilt. first one to be on fsn this year.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
It tells you who's going to put in the effort when they're on the floor
To me, the preseason is when I decide who to root for during the season. Especially having so many new players.
I'm really liking Webster so far.
Great intensity without the horrible mishaps that Brewer throws in there. I also like Pek more than Darko though I’m not sure about his defense. Ridnour appears to be a solid pickup, watch his face when he throws the off the backboard pass to Johnson.
I'm excited
The wolves are playing well in the pre-season. Seem to know their roles and enjoy playing together. I’d love to see them continue to do so.
I am I am sick of the hate
My two team are the wolves and the heat
The main questions
1) Will they rebound well enough defensively to get fastbreak opportunities?
2) Will they improve their perimeter defense enough to force jump shots and contested shots?
3) Can they generate enough offense via passing?
4) Will their shooters be able to make contested outside shots?
5) Will they be resilient enough to change the momentum in games that aren’t going their way?
by pagingstanleyroberts on Oct 11, 2010 3:46 PM CDT reply actions
Wasn't there a post last year
About how historically bad we were on 3 point differential? I’m really hoping our wings can turn that from a minus to a plus this year for us. We’ll be noticeably better if they just pull it (closer) to even.
by Cedarpenguin on Oct 11, 2010 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Indeed
We attempted the 3rd least 3-pointers while we allowed the 2nd most attempts. The result was that our opponents made 2.6 more three pointers per game than we did. This is one area where Rambis is squarely to blame. Guys like Flynn, Brewer, Gomes, and Ellington should have had more of a green light than they did from behind the arc. I can’t tell you how frustrated I’d get seeing a wing dump it into the pinch post, make a quick cut to about 20 feet, get the ball back and then jack up a long 2-pointer. Ugh. Also, Rambis had Brewer play free safety on defense and it was often his guy that was raining 3’s down on us. This was a fixable area that Rambis never addressed last season. Let’s hope he gives our wings this season freedom to jack up the 3-ball when it’s open.
by Rascal Flatts on Oct 11, 2010 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions
yes
last year’s squad was horrific at the arc on both ends. hopefully at least the offensive end gets better
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on Oct 11, 2010 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions
I have no doubt about that part...
They’ll make more 3s. The difference between being a good open 3pt shooter and a good 3pt shooter will loom large, though, because it’s very possible they’ll struggle to get open halfcourt looks vs. good teams.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Oct 11, 2010 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions
My suggestion for anyone feeling down about these Timberwolves...
Is that they go back and read from the Canis Hoopus Story Archives during the Glory Years/Days.
January 2nd through January 26th, 2009!!!!!!!!!!!!
January 2009 was the first time since the 2004 Playoffs where it was actually fun to be a Wolves fan. After years of crappiness, it was great just to watch an entertaining product on the floor. Here’s hoping for something approaching that level of entertainment again this year.
Talking myself into DeMarcus Cousins since 5/18/10
I think there is some cautious optimism going into this season
but it’s tough not to be bitter about past decisions and what could have been, and SnP’s post reflects both of these sentiments.
by Rascal Flatts on Oct 11, 2010 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions
In hindsight..
….I probably should have added a bit more to this season’s cautious optimism. It clearly wasn’t reflected enough in the post.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Eh, next time
I think there will be plenty of positive things to write about when the season starts and we can focus more on what we have than what we don’t
Well...
If you (like me) believe that there is a serious issue with Kahn’s “process,” then the underlying fear of any potential short term gain is the terrifying reality that it might mean that David Kahn will be around for an extended period of time.
A perfect world scenario for us Kahn dislikers might involve a Kevin Pritchard level of internal drama that would lead to Kahn’s ouster in spite of the Twolves success.
At which point we would then hire…Kevin Pritchard!!!!!!!!!
Talking myself into DeMarcus Cousins since 5/18/10
We'll chalk it up to...
stop-n-pooping. You’ll start popping next time! :-)
There's a solid article from Four Letter...
You were a daydreamer, a sass-mouth, and, not infrequently, a bit of a gigglepuss. Somehow I doubt twenty years of amphetamines and failure have done anything to improve that.
by Kevin Loves McHale's Navy on Oct 12, 2010 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Long time no
humorous sarcastic comment reading.
Welcome back
You're not letting natural selection take its course! You're like the guy who invented the seatbelt...
Eh don't worry too much
this is your first article that I’ve been actively turned off by and besides that being a great ratio people are allowed to disagree. I think I keep my optimism up by turning off horrendous games (lots of em in the past couple of years) and just glancing at boxscores the next day. That + beer is how I survived the 90’s Twins and TWolves and I see no reason why it won’t continue to work until we have a decent team. The only problem is I now have so many other hobbies that I may not give full attention to a winning team. =)
What is the fire point for Rambis and Kahn?
I would say anything below 25 wins might get Kahn fired, while anything below 18 wins would get Rambis fired.
Talking myself into DeMarcus Cousins since 5/18/10
Kahn won't get fired until Rubio's situation is resolved.
If Rubio eventually goes public with a trade demand, Kahn’s out. If he comes over and isn’t good within 2 or 3 years, Kahn’s out. But I don’t think any reasonable level of suckitude this year gets Kahn fired during the offseason in which he can sign the savior.
But yea, if we’re sub-20 again this year I think Rambis goes.
this wasn't a season preview
It was a draft-night rant. If you’re so burnt out on the team that you can’t see the forest for the trees, then why are you continuing to do it? At least this helps explain the lack of recent posts. I’ve always appreciated the quality of your writing, so I hope you can regain some of the enthusiasm you once had for the team – which currently has more potential as constructed (in my humble opinion) than at any time since before KG left. Look, a lot of people wanted cousins. And players like him don’t come along all the time – precisely because most players who are expected to be as good as you think Cousins will be don’t actually end up being as good as projected. The only way to completely remake the roster in a very short period of time was to strip it down all the way and then take advantage of whatever opportunities come along. I really don’t understand how you can say there is literally no rhyme or reason to Kahn’s actions – it’s an irresponsible and untrue statement. There is quite obviously a consistently executed plan, but as somebody else recently said, he’s the accountant, not the talent guy. I don’t mean to come off as his biggest defender, and he does come off as an ass a lot of the time in interviews (more because of how he says things and how he relates to the audience than because of what he’s actually trying to say) but c’mon. This is better then 3 months fishing in northern minnesota and an overpaid, mediocre free agent. I’d like to see a guardedly optimistic preview focusing on how we now have actual NBA talent at every position. Anyway, I hope this thing comes together, and I hope a few months from now you actually are excited about what’s happening on the court. And if that happens, I hope you can attribute the result to something other than utter luck or randomness, even if it’s not curry and cousins doing the damage. Or at least appreciate the improvement that is, not what hypothetically might have been.
by island wolf on Oct 11, 2010 4:32 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
+ 1
I totally agree. I’m not in Minnesota so I don’t see a lot of David Kahn. What I have seen doesn’t strike me as being off base.
What I don’t get is that I have heard both Kahn and Rambis lay out a plan, and stuck with it fairly consistently. I do not understand anyone who follows the NBA who say they don’t see a strategy from the Wolves front office. Now you can disagree with that strategy, but you have to give credit that they have picked a direction.
I feel good about this season. Im not expecting a playoff run, heck I’m not even expecting .500 ball, but I am expecting a competitive team that comes to play every night. I expect a team who get out and run and play a fun style of basketball that is a treat to watch instead of what this team has offered.
And for all those who say that Cousins was the best player available, being on the east coast I saw a lot of both Johnson and Cousins both live and on TV, and Johnson has a better shot at being ROY and having a more fruitful career. You will never question Johnson’s effort and attitude, Sacremento is going to wonder why Cousins feels that he can take certain plays off and where the intensity is every other night.
SnP--buck up little camper.
I also think a factor wearing you down is being the ambassador of this site. Take a break, it will be here when you get back.
Personally, the wolves have been nothing but heartbreak from day one. But they’ve also given me some of my greatest sports memories. KG drinking ‘Dave Long Islands’ when I was working at Champps near his place when he hung out there. Standing in the urinal next to Spree at Rick’s Caberet the week he got traded here and welcoming him to town while keeping my eye contact straight ahead. The KG MVP announcement before the playoff game. Kevin Willis taunting me after I taunted him in our inaugral playoff series—he pointed to the scoreboard and said, "Second Round baby" as he ran into the tunnel but only after I called him underrated…..
Try and not to let Kahn get you down. In 5 years DMC will be 315lbs and playing on his second contract with another team. He wouldn’t have worked out here. He would have been a disaster. Wes is a basketball player. Ricky has a chance to be something really nice.
The NBA will be a lot like the NFL this year, way more parity. The really bad teams really improved a lot this year. We could have 25 wins (I think a few more) and have the worst record in the league.
Predictions: The wolves will have 3 3-game win streaks this year. That will be three weeks of the season we will all be in great moods.
Listen, I made a bet with my boss before last season (Twins game and steak dinner) that the Wolves will make the playoffs before the Wild. I’m sticking to it.
Keep your chin up. I promise you’ll feel recharged in 2 months. Its a great site you add a lot.
Dave
Cousins
This was a draft blunder on par with Foye/Roy. Wes Johnson will be a nice pro. DMC will be a beast.
I’m a little sick of hearing about Cousins honestly so I’ll be happy if you ever actually move on from that. Obviously he is ridiculously talented but off court issues have claimed many a promising career, and injuries have derailed many more (especially big men). I want to see where Cousins and Johnson are in 5 years before I decide if this was a mistake. I also want to see where Curry and Flynn are in 5 years before I decide if that was a mistake.
I’m also tired of you selling guys like Flynn and Johnson so short on little to no resume. Flynn played one season, and it wasn’t as bad as it’s been made out to be. Johnson has hardly played a healthy minute in preseason and rookie league games. Give it some time.
all i know is...
ridnour, johnson, beas, pek and webster, with tolliver off the bench, already looks more competitive and better balanced than last year’s roster. and we stockpiled a couple of draft picks and kept our space to boot. take away kahn’s blabbering and i have trouble understanding people’s criticisms of his actions.
as for cousins, it’s been beaten to death ad nauseum. if he’s as good as some think he will be (and he may be, but nonetheless he didn’t fit our "system), then philly and nj are even more at fault than us. i’m willing to compare wes to turner and johnson and hope he vastly outperforms them. i know it’s just two preseason games but it’s hard not to like our energy ball movement unselfishness defense and shot making so far.
maybe it’s ronzone, maybe it’s rambis after a year, maybe it’s kahn delegating, but i’m happy with the offseason moves.
by LA Wolf on Oct 11, 2010 5:33 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
i like our team better than
last years Cavs minus Lebron. I’m assuming everyone on here does. So does that mean if we had LBJ we would be NBA elites? Is James that good or are we that much better this year.
by wet_nurse on Oct 11, 2010 5:40 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
I read through this thing a 2nd Time
I have difficulty disagreeing with anything said. It’s not overly rosy- but this team won 15 Games last year including 2 of their last 29.
We really have no idea what will develop.
I could see A team that wins in the Low 30’s or High Teens.
I could see Rambis flourish or faulter. I’m having a hard time seeing the problem with anything written.
So long as this is the thread for bitter
Zgoda just said Channel 45 isn’t partnering with the Wolves this year and FSN is only running 45 games.
Welcome to my world of screw-your-copyright online piracy.
Keeping the faith in the face of disillusionment and economic dismemberment.
I suppose a link wouldn't hurt
And it’s 50 games, not 45.
Keeping the faith in the face of disillusionment and economic dismemberment.
RUMINT...
…has it that Channel 29 will be the local landing spot for local coverage.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Good to know
I dunno, I just like watching games on the TV every now and then. I guess I’m old fashioned that way.
Keeping the faith in the face of disillusionment and economic dismemberment.
Know what you mean...
We had to drop cable this year, preparing for my wife to stay home after the 3rd baby, and my only way to watch Wolves games on TV will be any local coverage.
by Krotz the Wall on Oct 12, 2010 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions
Like HUMINT
but with rumors.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Anyone know if 29 is carried by any Charter package in Rochester?
Channel 45 was pretty much impossible to get in Roch last year. Stank.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Oct 11, 2010 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Any idea what the coverage will be like on FSN down South in Nebraska?
I occasionally stumbled across some Wolves games last year, but didn’t care very much nor payed too much attention. With the A-Train now on the team, the Wolves are instantly my 2nd favorite team and I’d like to see them play some games.
Settle down SnP
The Wolves management said last year that the team would be bad and things would be ugly and admitted last year wasn’t even rebuilding. Last year was about getting rid of the dead weight so we can start rebuilding. I share your upset feelings but feel optimistic for the first time since we signed Sprewell and Cassell. Quick, athletic, and everybody on the team bring multiple assets to the team. I don’t think the Wolves have EVER had this much depth at every position. I don’t think this is a 15 win team any more, I think it’s damn close to a .500 team if not better and I think this team will be able to put on a damn good show.
And I’m not convinced DMC is the better pick. If he doesn’t lose weight, if he doesn’t improve his ball handling, if he doesn’t learn to pass, and if he doesn’t learn how to not get into foul trouble Cousins will have a career slightly better than Big Country Bryant Reeves. It’s only been a couple preseason and summer league games but I’ve seen little to say Cousins is a lot better than Johnson in terms of overall games. And if the Wolves wanted a slow, plodding power guy they could have just kept big Al rather than replace him with DeMarcus Cousins.
thoughtful article
I contend that all of Kahn’s actions are consistent with competence. But, S-n-P, your inside knowledge scares me.
I would drive 10 miles to hear fucktwats sing.
I tend to disagree with SnP's takes...
…. but this one is spot on. Why is everyone offended when a writer reports what he sees/believes to be true? His job isn’t to promote the Timberwolves. Go read Jonah Ballow if you want that. Our team was a joke last year and Kahn’s draft-day decisions, which are the most important decisions he’s been tasked to make, have been bad. I can understand why his tone doesn’t agree with some people, but the fact that there are almost 250 entries, mostly complaining about his pessimism, strikes me as very strange. See how pessimistic you feel in February when we’re gunning for another top five pick.
Why, thank you.
And I have missed you as well. But I’ve had difficulty finding my way back to Canis Hoopus since I just recently discovered that the Internet has pictures of naked ladies on it.
Actually, I noticed over the summer that many commenters on this site have adopted a wildly enthusiastic opinion about the near-term prospects of this team. I don’t happen to share their optimism, but in a remarkable departure from my usual petty behavior I’ve chosen to leave the optimists unchallanged, and let them enjoy it while it lasts.
Hopefully they’re right, and we won’t be constructing mock drafts by mid-December.
You obviously...
need to put more stock in early preseason results. Would it help if I drafted another post suggesting the Wolves could be the worst team in the league?
Hey--
Howdy. Here’s a present I found just for you:
NBA GMs surveyed on what was the most underrated offseason acquistion:
1. Al Jefferson, Utah 21.4%
2. Steve Blake, L.A. Lakers 14.3%
3. Darren Collison, Indiana 10.7%
4. Carlos Boozer, Chicago 7.1%
4. Mike Miller, Miami 7.1%
4. Anthony Randolph, New York 7.1%
Also receiving votes:
Raymond Felton, New York; Spencer Hawes, Philadelphia; Joe Johnson, Atlanta; Courtney Lee, Houston; David Lee, Golden State; Shaquille O’Neal, Boston; Luke Ridnour, Minnesota; Hedo Turkoglu, Phoenix; John Wall, Washington
- Last year: Anthony Parker 14.3%
Nice...
and interesting to see Mike Miller on that list. I actually think that acquisition was overrated after watching Mike’s revamped style of play, two seasons ago. What will LeBron think of Miller trying to hijack the role of perimeter playmaker and refusing to shoot wide-open treys?
Hey
he’s only trying to teach those guys how to play basketball the right way!
by Rascal Flatts on Oct 12, 2010 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions
The only thing better...
than Miller kicking it to Telfair in the corner will be Miller to D-Wade. I assume that Mike will start shooting and knowing his role. It’ll just be annoying to know that he could have been better in Minnesota.
Supposedly LeBron loves Mike Miller's game, and endorsed the signing in a big way.
So I read somewhere or other.
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
Miller..
….talked about playing with LBJ way back in his Wolves days. He named his kid Maverick after LeBron’s buddy/manager.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
We're sure it wasn't after Tom Cruise, right?
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
Lebron's manager is
John McCain?
You're not letting natural selection take its course! You're like the guy who invented the seatbelt...
I highly doubt Al's aquisition is underrated.
I would put down $20 saying that Utah wins less than 50 games and Utah fans are fed up with Al by seasons end.
Yup
They’ve got him playing Center next to Milsap. That’s a real problem defensively. They definitely need AK in the starting unit at the 3 to help those guys protect the rim.
by Rascal Flatts on Oct 12, 2010 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions
But Jefferson is
and Millsap isn’t good enough to cover for Jefferson. Big Al at PF next to Dwight Howard? That works. Big Al at C next to KG? That works too. Big Al and Noah? That probably works also. But I’m not so sure ‘Sap has the defensive length and range to cover for all of Al’s foibles. This is where AK can help.
by Rascal Flatts on Oct 12, 2010 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Will AK be there?
Are they going to hold onto his expiring the one more year? He was supposed to be part of the multi-team Melo trade a couple of weeks back, and the influence on Utah’s defensive situation could have been serious.
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
But they were to receive Diaw in that same deal. He’s like AK-37 – not quite AK-47, but close – on the defensive side of the ball, isn’t he?
Sam Cassell for Marko Jaric? That's ridiculous! I would never have traded Sam Cassell for Marko Jaric.
- Sam Cassell on McHale's decisions while running the Timberwolves.
Yeah, I mentioned that in some fanshot or other....
Basically they’d have been going from a 4-3 (AK47) to a 4-5 (Diaw) in terms of their recent use. Probably a wise shift in terms of how their roster looks now.
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
Hey look at that
7.1% of the voters were Golden State fans!
You're not letting natural selection take its course! You're like the guy who invented the seatbelt...
Kahn certainly deserves our skepticism...
but SnP, since Draft Night, has written strongly and often cryptically about how stupid he thinks David Kahn is. As I understand it, the two biggest reasons are drafting Jonny Flynn over Steph Curry and drafting Wes Johnson over DeMarcus Cousins. That is to say, he passed on one guy who 3 other teams passed on, and another who 4 other teams passed on. Sure, those could have been mistakes. Depending on how important you think Ricky Rubio’s backup is to the fate of the franchise, that Curry mistake could prove to be significant. Depending on how much you think Cousins and Love can defend a frontcourt together, maybe that Johnson pick was bad, too. Point is, this isn’t the type of thing that shows Kahn to be an absolute moron with no “basketball acumen.” I’d rather have Johnson than Cousins, all things considered. I don’t know it all by any stretch, but I like to think I’m not completely stupid, as Kahn apparently is for making that determination.
The most interesting part of all of this is that SnP and many others have already concluded (without a SINGLE game being played) that the Al Jefferson trade was a wise choice. That is something that nationwide basketball fans would find interesting, if not hilarious. A very similar trade was made between the Lakers and Grizzlies, when Gasol was shipped out for cap space and a late first rounders. Shortly thereafter, it was considered unethical, corrupt, and everything that’s wrong with the NBA. Deron Williams isn’t Kobe Bryant, so I don’t think that this will receive quite that degree of criticism. But a healthy Al Jefferson is absolutely as good as Memphis’s Pau Gasol. For all of the criticism of David Kahn that goes on here, it’s ironic that the move that could EASILY prove to be his worst is the only one applauded by the masses.
It’s going to be a fun season on this blog. I look forward to the great “back and forth” that posts like this one can generate.
Darn Right!
Let’s all get wasted and shovel our general sense of anxiety on to a professional sports team! Until they’re champs, there’s always room to bitch!
I was 100% in favor of trading Al Jefferson...
But I would by no means give this trade a “passing grade.” In my book it gets an incomplete. If the T-wolves use the cap space acquired by this trade to pick up an Andre Iguodala, Josh Smith, or Gerald Wallace (those are probably the only three guys who might potentially be available for Cap Space) then I’ll give the trade a B+/A-.
But if David Kahn can only get a Matt Harpring/Eric Maynor type package or even worse…nothing, then this trade is nothing more then an unmitigated disaster. Enough to get Kahn and Rambis both fired.
Talking myself into DeMarcus Cousins since 5/18/10
As a member of the high USG low efficiency scoring is bad club
I’m fine with the trade as is. I honestly think Al is a terrible fit for Utah for many of the same reason’s he’s bad here. I think Al’s main skill is taking lots of possessions on a bad team with no other options and converting them into 20 points in the low block.
1. He’s a poor defender (and that’s being generous, oblivious might be more accurate)
2. He’s a bad passer out of double teams (once again oblivious to the double… I think his court vision isn’t very good)
3. He sets bad screens if he sets them at all (I do think this is easily fixable).
4. He can’t pick – n – pop well.
His best skill IMO is his rebounding. His scoring is … nice but hardly exceptional (drawing contact would really help).
He rarely ends possessions with a turnover
which is pretty important in the world of advanced stats. And while his efficiency isn’t great, it’s not horrible either. I agreed with the trade too, but we need to recognize his strengths.
by Rascal Flatts on Oct 12, 2010 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions
The Jefferson and Gasol trades aren't on the same level
First, Gasol’s a much better player who was the focal point of 3 playoff teams before the deal. Second, the Lakers post-Gasol were much better than the Jazz post-trade will be, mainly because they were a fringe playoff team before the trade and probably not a title contender with it. Third, one of the picks they received was from Memphis, a team that won’t be drafting in the 20s for a few years even if they make the playoffs. Time will tell whether the trade worked, but calling them similar is silly.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Oct 12, 2010 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll try not to be so silly...
but I’ll add a few points of clarification:
LA was in 1st Place at the time of the Gasol trade. Adding Pau kept them there (with an improved winning percentage), after Bynum went down.
Gasol’s a “much better player.” Thank you, hindsight. He was not an All-Star in 2007, the year before the trade. That’s probably because he was on a 22-win team. He played 59 of those games, dropping 20.8 points and 9.8 rebounds per. That sounds eerily similar to Al Jefferson, perhaps with better assist numbers and worse rebounding numbers. After Hubie Brown returned to the broadcast table, age set in for Bobby Jackson and Eddie Jones, and in-his-prime Shane Battier was swapped for rookie Rudy Gay, Pau was no longer a winning basketball player.
In the year of the trade, Pau was down to 18.9 points and 8.8 rebounds per game, at the time of the trade. In his 39 Memphis games played that year, they were 10-29. Worse production than pre-injury Jefferson on a similarly bad team. The comparison is a fair one, if you can block out the Lakers-Gasol from your mind for a second. That’s why Memphis traded him for cap space. That, and they have a cheap owner. The confusing part was not waiting until the deadline to start a bidding war.
I’m not sure by any stretch of what will happen to Utah, this year. But if they can maintain their usual 50+ win pace, having added Jefferson but lost Brewer/Korver/Boozer, it’ll speak highly of Al, possibly place him on the All-Star roster, and leave that trade looking pretty similar to Pau Gasol’s.
The outlines of the argument are okay, but you're puffing Al up and underselling Gasol at the time of that deal.
“(Pau) was not an All-Star in 2007, the year before the trade. That’s probably because he was on a 22-win team. He played 59 of those games, dropping 20.8 points and 9.8 rebounds per.”
Pau was injured until mid-December in ‘06; he missed all the games at the start of the year, and by the time he came back Memphis was already in the tank. The All Star thing seems like rather an arbitrary argument under those circumstances, especially in the Western conference where the All Star PF crop included Duncan, Nowitzki, Stoudemire, Boozer in a career year, and David West representing N’Awlins’ surprising emergence. Gasol hadn’t played much that year yet, and wasn’t a big name in Memphis.
We all remember the reaction of the league to that trade, and it wasn’t “Hmm, Pau Gasol’s okay, maybe he can do a little something in LA.” That reaction featured Greg Popovic saying the league really should have the power to veto trades that made no sense. That’s not hindsight, it was the immediate reaction of almost everyone. Adding Gasol struck almost everyone as “unfair.”
As far as comparing Pau and Jefferson as of the moment of the trade, there’s a little matter of defense to talk about…. That may explain why Greg Popovic isn’t lambasting David Stern for allowing Jefferson to work with Jerry Sloan. And despite ample opportunity to hold the bidding option for Jefferson, at last year’s deadline and this summer, nobody’s exactly blown away by the one-sidedness of Big Al’s departure either. Even stinging rebukes of Kahn don’t say it that way:
In a vacuum, the trade is pretty questionable for the Wolves, who desperately need talent but sent away the team’s most talented player. It’s when you consider the move with the rest of Kahn’s oeuvre that the mind-numbing stupefication comes through.
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
More context is needed...
because Pau Gasol joined a first place Laker team that included the almost-unquestioned best player in basketball. Put it this way: had the Timberwolves traded Al Jefferson in a similar deal, at that point in time, a VERY similar reaction would have occurred. Kobe needed SOMETHING and he got a borderline All-Star big man. He had the Lakers in first place with Andrew Bynum — the 20-year old version! So, when they lost Bynum and quickly replaced him with Pau Gasol, the crazy reaction was expected and warranted.
Pau Gasol has never been confused for a solid, let-alone good, defensive player. I’m sure you watched some of last year’s Finals, when he was abused more often that he held his own. (To say nothing of his disastrous showing in the 2008 Finals, a time period much-closer to what we’re discussing, here…) I won’t say that last year’s Jefferson was an equal defender to Gasol. You and I have discussed how incredibly poor he was. But, he wasn’t that bad before the surgery and he might regain his mediocre-but-not-terrible ways, with a full recovery behind him.
Pop isn’t worried about the Utah Jazz because they ain’t winning any titles with this crew. My point is that they might be able to steady the ship and survive the loss of their two-time All-Star, with the Big Al addition, and if they do, the notion of trading him for cap space, at age 25, seems pretty wild to me.
exactly
The Gasol trade was seen as unfair because the recipients of Gasol were the Lakers. Same trade to the Knicks would have smelled funny, but I doubt everybody would have been up in arms.
Jefferson to Utah also slips under the fairness radar a bit because a) Jefferson was on the block, it wasn’t a surprise like Gasol was; and b) Utah just got rid of Boozer, so the “picture” of Utah hasn’t changed much. It’s still Deron and a 20/10 Power Forward.
Next thing you know, they'll take my thoughts away.
God I love what this site has become.
I don’t claim to have much ownership anymore, but damed if I’m not proud to see so many familiar names that posted on Hoopus pre-SBN alongside dozens of names I’ve never seen before have a 250 comment thread over the team’s outlook, laced with a heap of direct criticism, that hasn’t turned into a flame war. It warms the sub-cockles of my heart.
And if anyone has beef with the 1st four paragraphs, you come to me. They’re the first words I’ve written here in god knows how long, so I’ve got to take credit.
www.canishoopus.com
The only thing that separates Canis Hoopus from Blazer's Edge level traffic...
Is a few lucky ping pong balls during the Greg Oden lottery. How does the traffic on this blog compare to the other members of SBNation? It seems like the commentary level is at least very high.
Talking myself into DeMarcus Cousins since 5/18/10
BE is about 4x the traffic
That city also has a team with history. And Ben & Dave are absolute pros.
But, I will say that the Hoopus community was widely lauded in the SBN circle this past year. It’s impossible not to notice the quality of discourse here.
www.canishoopus.com
I thought SnP had a fair assessment of the team as it is
but was not very fair about how he’ll evaluate Kahn once we see how the team pans out. I have two issues in particular. First, if Webster plays as well as he has in preseason, I think you have to give Kahn credit for finding a gem on another team’s bench. And yes, Rambis may have been the one to identify Webster, but Kahn hired Rambis, so you have to give some credit to the top of the pyramid, too.
Second, if Cousins ends up having attitude problems that prevent him from being a star, I think Kahn deserves credit for passing on him. (Though I supported taking Cousins based on what little I know.) Off-court issues (or on-court attitude issues) aren’t something SnP wanted to weigh in on, but for a time he said that the Wolves “really need to do their homework on Cousins” (or something like that). That caveat got lost over time, but it’s possible that the Wolves did their homework and made a decision based on it.
All that said, I believe SnP that Kahn probably isn’t the sharpest knife in the GM (or POBO) drawer, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t give Kahn credit when he gets something right.
It's like pulling that band-aid off quickly.
Good post, S-n-P. I think a lot of us are truly sick of having not much more to talk about than off the court stuff, or trying to, by will power alone, pull together optimism about the collection of players and ‘talent’ that this team has collected for this go ‘round. It’s sad when the most interesting thing about the team, even in Nov., is studying the possible lottery talent that might be coming out of college for the draft.
I read this post as a sort of turning point. A “I’m not going to do this any more” post. I’m not going to buy into the off the court PR and drama. We watch and talk about basketball because we love BASKETBALL, not cap economics or off the court power struggles, or trying to guess if the team is really truly trying as hard to throw games as it seems they are. That’s just crap.
I don’t agree completely with you on all things, SnP, but I share your general sentiments.
As for positives, I just get a little excited when I look at the Wolves roster this season. Do you know why? It’s because I see a bunch of names, all of which belong to actual pro-level basketball players. That is a definite improvement over the past couple years. We have athleticism again. We have some size advantages again. We have some outside shooting again. I can’t remember how many times, while watching a game last year, that I felt that I couldn’t even call what the Wolves had on the floor a ‘basketball team’ because they certainly didn’t seem to be playing basketball. At least this year, all the guys at least belong on the court.
I can’t wait for games to get started. I want to see some good basketball. I want to see a hell of a lot of compete from the Wolves. I want to see all that athletic ability and size result into swarming, team first, annoying as hell defense. I want to see what Beasley can do. I want to see if Love has more to bring to the team. I want to see what it’s like to actually shoot more free throws than our opponents… and maybe even get more 3 pointers in the same game.
There is a lot of basketball to talk about… a lot of basketball questions to ask, a lot of talent and potential questions to watch over the course of this season.
Yes. Yes. Let’s talk basketball.
by Krotz the Wall on Oct 12, 2010 11:56 AM CDT reply actions
Maybe I'm in the minority on this one,
but I enjoy all of the arm-chair GMing that we talk about as much as the actual basketball. I like speculating about why it is we decided to pass on DMC and take Johnson. I thoroughly enjoy coming up with a plan to put together a winning basketball team. And arguing about whether player X is as good as player Y for our team kind of floats my boat too. All of the front-office stuff would be irrelevant without the fun of watching the games unfold though.
Sam Cassell for Marko Jaric? That's ridiculous! I would never have traded Sam Cassell for Marko Jaric.
- Sam Cassell on McHale's decisions while running the Timberwolves.
Sure...
It’s part of the package of being a real fan. The problem comes when, after 4 or 5 years, that off the court stuff is really all there IS to talk about. When every year it seems that wrong/odd/no moves are made. When the team doesn’t get better. When talking about the off the court stuff gets bitter and contentious, then it’s time to start trying to focus on the game.
by Krotz the Wall on Oct 13, 2010 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Cousins is easy
Wolves want up-tempo and quick with a lot of running and movement. Have you seen the shape Cousins is in? 16.4% body fat, one of the highest measurements in NBA history. Put into the Wolves fast-paced system the guy wouldn’t be able to keep up unless the NBA allowed him to use a Segway. He is like a more talented (but slower) version of Al Jefferson. They wanted athleticism and could either draft Cousins and spend all camp trying to bring him down to what they wanted plus dealing with the demons in his head or draft the best athlete in the draft who also happens to have a great head on his shoulders…
Ladies and Gentlemen, with the forth pick in the 2010 NBA Draft the Minnesota Timberwolves select…Wesley Johnson, small forward from Syracuse. (Because he was their only real option)
by newfrickinshow on Oct 13, 2010 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions
To play devil's advocate.
Why not draft Cousins and start to build a team around him? Why not fit the other players and the style of game around the BPA? We could almost surely get a first round pick or two for Kevin Love. Jonny Flynn would look more at home in a slow-it-up, grind-it-out game plan. We could have kept Babbit and have him catch-and-shoot all day from DMC’s kick-outs. After all, we’re currently building a team around a player that isn’t even on the roster yet and probably never will be (Rubio). Why not scrap what is so obviously a DOA (dead on arrival) plan and try to re-create the early 90’s Orlando Magic by drafting the modern equivalent (DMC) of the single most difficult-to-fill role on that team (Shaquile O’Neal)?
Disclaimer: the views and opinions expressed by ynotsema2 in this post are not necessarily the views and opinions of ynotsema2. Go Timberwolves!
Sam Cassell for Marko Jaric? That's ridiculous! I would never have traded Sam Cassell for Marko Jaric.
- Sam Cassell on McHale's decisions while running the Timberwolves.
How many NBA Championships did the early 90’s Magic win? 0. How many times did the early 90’s Magic make it to the NBA finals? Once. Then Shaq left to be in the Phil Jackson system.and the Magic spent the next ten years mired in futility.
Do I want to draft the next Shaq so he can do the same, leave for Miami in three years? No thanks. I’d rather build the team that the next Shaq wants to come to, rather than be the team that the next Shaq leaves after a couple years of disappointment. It’s actually something that seems to happen a lot in basketball; bringing in the superstar too early. KG on the Timberwolves, made the playoffs every year but couldn’t get through the first round and had a hard time building through the draft because most of the surefire picks and top talent were already gone. Cleveland, see LeBron. Magic and Shaq. Nets and Vince Carter, etc.
As long as you keep putting superstars on teams without building a team first, you will keep competing for the playoffs year after year, but never competing for the championship.
by newfrickinshow on Oct 13, 2010 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions
That's not what his supporters think.
They think he’s the next big thing and no matter of empirical or anecdotal evidence can ever convince them otherwise at this point.
I’m just playing devil’s advocate on this though. I’ve dedicated an entire Fanpost as to why the Wolves selected Johnson instead of Cousins. And I should be counted amongst the Johnson supporters on this site.
Sam Cassell for Marko Jaric? That's ridiculous! I would never have traded Sam Cassell for Marko Jaric.
- Sam Cassell on McHale's decisions while running the Timberwolves.
Hyperbole much?
That’s not what his supporters think. They think he’s the next big thing and no matter of empirical or anecdotal evidence can ever convince them otherwise at this point.
I would absolutely 100% consider myself on the side of the line that wanted Cousins over Johnson. I maintain that opinion and probably will for the next 15 years (meaning I don’t expect Johnson to ever prove me wrong). Cousins had one of the best statistical seasons for a freshman since Shaq. But I don’t think you can find anyone that is 100% convinced that Cousins is going to be as good as Shaq. I think you could find very few, if any, people that actually think Cousins has even a 10% chance to be as good as Shaq. Could he be as good? Of course. Is it even remotely likely? Not at all.
Cousins is most likely going to be very good and I wouldn’t be surprised to see him putting up 20/12s with slightly above average efficiency within a few years. But I’d be very surprised if Cousins ever comes anywhere close to averaging 30/12/3/3 while maintaining the best FG% in the league.
I hope we can put this annoying bit to rest, though.
You're not letting natural selection take its course! You're like the guy who invented the seatbelt...
Late as always
to a thread but I have just not been spending a lot of time thinking about the Twolves yet.
First of all, I agree 100% with SnP – Kahn seems to employ a “throw a bowl of spaghetti against the wall and see what sticks” approach. While he has made good on goal to make the team longer in size, he has strayed from his fundamental premise of “being the best at player development”. If this were the goal, we would have emphasized at all levels (draft, FA signings, etc) raw athletic /basketball talent that could be developed. We have not done that. Rather, we seem to be more focused on resurrecting careers of players who, for what ever reason, have under performed / failed to meet expectations. While that might seem to fit under “player development” it is far harder to change the spots on a leopard than to start with a clean slate. (Sorry for the mixed metaphor) Coupled with how little improvement that most of us saw with the players we had last year, begs the question as to if we have the right stuff (HC, ass’t, trainers, etc) to even be above average in player development.
We are all in on Rubio but there is a serious issue out there – Rubio will need to buy himself out BEFORE July 1 and the lock out happens. (Anyone who does not believe a lock out is inevitable probably believes in the Tooth Fairy too) Is Rubio going to spend the money on the buyout and not get paid for 4-6 months during the lock out? When the money is not going to be all that different? (At least in the 1st year) When he could stay in Europe and wait it out? I have always struggled with going “all in” on someone who is not currently on the roster. (see NY Knicks as an example of what can happen) Just too many variables.
There is a much more bottom line attitude permeating through the organization than in the past. Example? Big Al was not traded for basketball reasons – he was traded for financial reasons. Example? Beasley who absolutely not on the radar, but was picked up for almost no cost with Miami sweetening the deal. (By the way, I like the Beasley pick up a lot)
There is a reason why we have the lowest projected payroll in the NBA – Taylor has lost far too much money and his partners have not further stomach for it. You can’t have a 1/2 empty building and $5 season tickets and expect to met expenses. So it was a little hard to publicly hear Kahn touting his cap space when he was not going to be able to spend it. (A quick aside – This comes back to a point that has been made several times – Kahn would be far better served by being more reserved in his statements than by trying to be so “media friendly”.)
Now frankly, I am ok with going younger and cheaper. It was frankly what should have happened several years ago. Young, cheap with a strong player development staff has allowed a lot of teams to reposition themselves to be a playoff team and, if they get a lucky lottery ball – a title contender. But in this type of situation, BPA has to be the call! SnP is spot on – you can’t come out with a “fits our needs” pick when you need the transcendent player. I have no clue if DMC will be that type of player. But I am convinced that DMC has a much greater chance of being that player than Wes. (In fairness, DMC also has a greater change of flaming out too) But isn’t that the risk you expect a team to take at this point?
I saw a very pessimistic person last year regarding our “potential” record – with 2 key players coming off serious injury, a rookie head coach and a brutal schedule, I knew the Twolves were going to get clobbered in the first few months and be a last place team for most of the year. I was accepting that – because I was expecting a far better 2nd half under the better player development premise. It was quite frankly pretty pissed when I saw so very little. Not sure if it was tanking (understanding, but not acceptable when I was paying for tickets), talent level (possible) or lousy player development (what worries me the most). But it was tough to stomach.
This year, we have better overall talent on the wings and better overall size. We will still struggle to defend at the rim and to score inside. We will shoot better on the perimeter, but I see us having even less success in getting to the rim from the perimeter and drawing fouls (mainly due to our mostly immobile posts clogging up the lane on offense). We should be able to run far better with stronger defensive rebounding. Our schedule is not nearly as brutal in the first 6 weeks as last year – in fact – we may catch a few teams with better personnel who might be still struggling with injury/chemistry. Flynn is our only injury – and he should be back soon. So…..
I see us at 25-28 wins. I see us winning 7 or 8 of our first 17 games, leaving us to get15-18 wins out of the remaining 65 to make a significant improvement in our record. But that will be meaningless unless the player development takes off.
by Just A Fan on Oct 12, 2010 12:12 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
Yes.
Even if the Wolves out perform and reach 30 wins, but it is done despite no real player development, this will be yet another lost season. We have to see 2 players, at least 2, really start to grow into something. We need to see growth and development across the board.
The other thing we need to see is this group of young men form a true team identity. If they are going to have any success, now and in the future, they need to play for each other, be more collectively than individually… especially on the defensive side of the game.
Good post, JAF.
by Krotz the Wall on Oct 12, 2010 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Thank you
Your keyboard must be hooked into my brain. Or vice versa.
A little baseless speculation on Kahn’s oversharing with the media: I believe he knows he’s in over his head, and is already auditioning for his next gig—sitting on a panel in front of the camera during the pre-game Chucklefest, and trading witty barbs with the likes of CWebb, Ernie, and some former All Star with half a brain who retires in the next year.
Before you scoff, please note Matt Millen’s accomplishments as the Detroit Lions GM, before he returned to the studio as an “analyst”:
After his playing career, Millen was President and CEO of the Detroit Lions from 2000 until 2008. His eight-year tenure as head of the franchise led to the worst eight-year record in the history of the modern NFL (31-97), and resulted in his termination on September 24, 2008.
He's got too much Tiki Barber in him...
Every time he talks I just want to punch him (him being Kahn or Tiki) in the face.
Talking myself into DeMarcus Cousins since 5/18/10
The voice, the mole, the bad jokes and condescension...
let’s just say he’d be unpopular as a TV analyst.
Oh, I have no belief
that any programming exec would be dumb enough to hire Kahn for that position (other than for potential trainwreckiness), but I can see our man Kahn fancying himself quite the quotesman.
“Methinks Kenny should get his fishing gear out, because the Atlanta Hawks are going to be SWEPT in the play-offs!”
It's Fan Night on NBA TV
Every Tuesday Kevin McHale, Chris Webber, and David Kahn call our game of the week!
I would drive 10 miles to hear fucktwats sing.
Kahn's..
…relationship with the media is much more Freudian than that. Everyone knows he’s in over his head. He knows they know. He knows why they know that he knows they know. And so on and so forth.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
But SnP
As bumbling as he might be as a personnel/b-ball guy, it can’t be just dumb luck that he got his mitts on Rambis and Ronzone. While the jury is still out on Rambis, he was a big name candidate and Ronzone seems to be THE GUY in terms of international scouting. And while we may have been scratching our heads over the romancing of Gay and Lee, he certainly seems to have a knack for getting people to like Minnesota and leave folks with a good impression. Perhaps he is quite savvy as an executive in terms of the politicking and networking aspect of his role, but it’s more of the personnel stuff that he’s in over his head on.
by Rascal Flatts on Oct 12, 2010 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions
If you knew of a workplace...
…that was handing out 6-7 figure salaries and the guy in charge of doing the hiring didn’t know what he was doing and had zero industry credibility (especially at decision-making time) compared to everyone else in the room, would you get your Machiavelli on and apply? Let’s also not underestimate where both Rambis and Ronzone came from. Was Rambis really the Laker coach in waiting? Why didn’t he end up with Sacramento? Ronzone was on an escape from Dumars Island who was also looking for a place that could really highlight his ability to select foreign players.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Dude, seriously?
Rambis didn’t end up in Sacto because Sacto didn’t want to pay him:
Sources reiterated Wednesday that Rambis was Sacramento’s top choice and would have had the job if he had been willing to accept the established terms. But the Kings’ odds of luring Rambis away from L.A. with only two years guaranteed and at the salary level Westphal accepted were always long, according to Lakers sources, even if Sacramento had waited until after the Finals instead of pressing for a conclusion.
…
When Rambis passed — having said repeatedly that he was determined to delay any decision about his future after the Finals and with the Kings intent on paying their new hire less than $2 million annually — Sacramento moved on and agreed with Westphal on a two-year deal with a team option for a third season.
I just don’t get it, man. You’re lambasting Kahn for being unqualified for the job, and yet he’s enabled this team to dramatically update it’s talent and length without taking on huge contracts. You make it sound as if McHale was a FO genius for signing Joe Smith to an under the table contract and Troy Hudson to a long term deal. Seriously? You really think that guys like Rambis and Ronzone happened to end up here because they think Kahn is some sort of boob? Why would guys universally respected around the NBA just happen to end up here? Why, if Kahn is the inept moron you and JAF make him out to be, don’t we have a FO and basketball coaching staff made up of slimy, snake oil opportunists just looking to make a quick buck and live out their basketball dreams? Oh, I guess Kahn got lucky and somehow managed to hire the best and brightest and hardest working of all the Machiavellian money-grubbers out there.
Ugh…I just don’t get it. I seriously sometimes wonder if some of you guys have some bizarre co-dependent relationship with McHalian basketball, and now that this team isn’t doing anything that resembles that either in the FO or on draft day or on the court, every little thing that you’re missing becomes magnified and becomes further evidence of how terrible Kahn is (and by implication how great McHalian basketball is with high skill guys like Curry and DMC playing basketball the way it’s supposed to be played – at a slower pace the Trailblazers and no imagination or ingenuity).
Barf.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
Another great decision making GM
From TrueHoop:
Are the Knicks finally on track?
They spent forever and a day in the quest for the magical elixir of 2010 cap room. Then they guzzled mightily of that cap room and ended up with … an injury prone big man who doesn’t play defense or create his own offense efficiently, but talks like an MVP candidate who has everything figured out. It’s also worth mentioning that they hired a coach famous for a system that relies on a transcendent point guard, but they have no such player, and no trade assets to get one. The Knicks had a fine offseason, and more to talk about than ever. But if they’re on anything resembling a path to greatness, they’ll have to prove it on the court this year.
I’m sure you’d love it if Donnie Walsh ran this team, what with his BPA drafting philosophy and excellent credentials. It really sucks we couldn’t lure him away from NY to run this franchise and stock it full of young talent and draft picks – oh wait, that’s right. Knicks don’t have that much young talent and no draft choices. Yippee for pedigreed GM’s!!
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
Again..
…what does this have to do with anything I’ve said here or in the past? How do you want me to respond to a “I’m sure you’d..” line of reasoning? Especially with Walsh. I’m not sure where pedigreed GMs came into the mix here. I want competent people who know what they’re doing and can produce consistently above-average results over a long period of time.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
I don't expect it to happen...
but if this team DOES shock the world and win something like 35 games, Kahn deserves the credit. The only way this isn’t the case is if Kevin Love makes big advances as a scorer and is clearly leading us to improvement. He was McHale’s guy — not Kahn’s, so that wouldn’t be to Kahn’s credit.
But if the Webster-Johnson-Beasley-Darko quartet plays a significant role in the turnaround of this franchise (again, not holding my breath) David Kahn will have shown himself to be more than competent as a GM. If these guys win less than 25 games, while Golden State and Sacramento are fighting for playoff spots, Kahn’s seat should feel pretty warm, if not burning hot.
I'm not sure..
…that anything I’ve written precludes me from agreeing with that. If all of this works out, of course the guy deserves credit. Lots of it. This guy pitched a fairly specific timeline/plan for success. I’ve never understood how people couldn’t see that there was a basic idea behind all of it (Build Around Rubio!). My contention that Build Around Rubio is like building a war strategy entitled Bomb Their Capitol. There are lots of specifics to work through to make it all jive and he’s not exactly basketball’s version of General Petraeus. He’s a talking head. My contention is that having a talking head in charge of basketball operations is just as dangerous (relatively speaking, of course) as having one in charge of day-to-day military operations.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
BTW:
Scratch the “fairly specific” from the timeline. Fairly obvious was what my brain was trying to go for.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
When you write such things as
…the guy in charge of doing the hiring didn’t know what he was doing and had zero industry credibility (especially at decision-making time) compared to everyone else in the room, would you get your Machiavelli on and apply? Let’s also not underestimate where both Rambis and Ronzone came from. Was Rambis really the Laker coach in waiting? Why didn’t he end up with Sacramento? Ronzone was on an escape from Dumars Island who was also looking for a place that could really highlight his ability to select foreign players.
it comes off to me pretty clearly that you’re saying Kahn is a dolt, or am I not reading your meaning correctly?
Furthermore, you imply that Kahn’s role in getting Rambis and Ronzone in here is incidental, in that ‘incidentally a dolt is GM for the Wolves so let the shark feeding frenzy begin!’ (essentially that Rambis and Ronzone smelled blood in the water with Kahn and came a-runnin’.) Or am I misunderstanding that as well?
So, as I read it, the primary leadership of this organization (Kahn, Rambis, and Ronzone) is, hmmm, what’s a good word for it? Pure coincidence maybe? Or the result of dumb luck and happenstance?
As for
…what does this have to do with anything I’ve said here or in the past? How do you want me to respond to a "I’m sure you’d.." line of reasoning? Especially with Walsh. I’m not sure where pedigreed GMs came into the mix here. I want competent people who know what they’re doing and can produce consistently above-average results over a long period of time.
In the time that Walsh was associated with the Pacers they made the playoffs 16 times, including one Finals appearence and 4 Eastern Conference Finals and averaged 44 wins, including seasons of 61, 58, 56, 52, 52, and 48 wins. Isn’t this exactly what what you just described? Or do you want an unknown such as Presti or Cho running this team? Near as I can tell the only thing I’m sure that you want is for Kahn not to be running the team.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
He's not a basketball guy...
….and, to go back to the talking head/military analogy, he’s the non-military guy in the room trying to tell military guys about tactics. He’s a smart guy but he’s not that type of smart. He also has some fairly obvious blindsides (need to please, willingness to tell folks what they want to hear).
As for Rambis, I think I’m implying that Sacramento took a more realistic approach to hiring a guy with a questionable record at the head of the bench. Kahn knew that Rambis was a big name and he paid him what a team in a similar spot did not. I don’t have a good enough read on Ronzone yet to know the whole back story of how he got here. From what I can piece together, there is a small pool of guys who are good with international players (also read: cheap investments) and that the two just sort of found each other. Not quite dumb luck but we’re talking about a handful of guys who could be considered for the spot. The NBA is a small, small club in that sense.
I wanted someone running this team that came from a modern working program.
I still don’t know what to say about Walsh. I’m not sure how that relates to anything I’ve written. I think he’s doing a terrible job in New York.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Walsh in NY
Agreed 100%.
I’m still optimistic about Rambis. I don’t care that he sucked last year – for right or wrong I think he wasn’t trying that hard. I think this year is his make or break year, and he just seems like he knows exactly what he wants to see and why. I guess that’s not exactly a ringing endorsement, but it seems like players like him (even Love might be coming around), and he certainly has the NBA lifer track record going for him. We’ll see. I think he’s going to be OK, though, I really do.
As for Ronzone, I say you can never have too many good scouts working for you. The Twins are built on that premise, and if the Wolves can adopt that practice then all the better for us – know what I mean?
And lastly, as for Kahn…I think I am beginning to see what you’re getting at (the military analogy makes sense for me). I guess I do hope that in the long run Kahn steps back more and runs the contracts/managing the cap/strategy side of things, as I think that’s what he’s best at, and hands over the talent evaluation over to better people. Whoever posted below the idea of Kahn as a general, big picture overseer is the exact type of role I’d want him in over the long haul. Be a lawyer, be an executive. Let basketball decisions be made by basketball people.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
modern working program is key
Tom Penn is not a basketball guy. But he worked for Pritchard and I was excited when it appeared he was going to be hired. And I think S-n-P would have also been excited. Why? Because he worked for a modern working program.
To be fair, David Kahn is not a basketball guy but he worked for Donnie Walsh, who, according mainstream media sources, appears to be respected, if not widely. So Kahn also came from a working program in Indiana. Of course, Kahn had been out of league for several years, running the DLeague.
There are at least two questions:
1. If Tom Penn had made all these exact same moves, would we (or SnP) be OK with them?
2. If Tom Penn were here, would he have respect from basketball people? That is, would the sausage making process have been substantively different?
(and in insert Dennis Lindsey in for Tom Penn at your leisure)
I would drive 10 miles to hear fucktwats sing.
Oooo
I still wonder what this team would look like if Lindsay had been hired.
Gotta admit, I’m a lot more wary about Penn now after everything that has happened in Portland. I don’t know if it’s right or wrong, but you gotta seriously screw some things up or make some bad choices/assumptions if you get shown the door like that – and there’s really no uproar from other people around the league. It’s a small community, and you’d think if there was less fire behind the smoke more peers would speak up about it.
Anyways, all good questions. While I love the continued hiring of player development coaches and the upgrading of facilities the Wolves have done, I still wonder about the lack of advanced stats stuff. I get the feeling they’re going more Twins than Athletics on this one.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
I am very surprised both Penn & Pritchard were fired
They built a very promising team and apparently were fired because the former leveraged a bigger salary from management and the lattery did not share enough credit with management.
I think most people around the league viewed this as “Paul Allen and Vulcan are mildly insane control freaks.”
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Oct 12, 2010 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Ya, that's probably true
but it’s also pretty low brow, in my very humble opinion, to engage in the shenanigans Penn did to get a raise. I mean seriously – the guy had to realize he was on many team’s shortlist for potentially GMing in the next few years, right? Dude totally pre-spooged before anything legit opened up for him.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
by biggity2bit on Oct 12, 2010 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions
I feel as though
Pritchard got shown the door because they didn’t make it past the first round of the playoffs the last two years. Rather than doing something about it, Pritchard’s strategy appeared to be “wait for the kids to grow up.” He picked up Camby at the deadline last season, but that was more out of necessity than an inspired desire to consolidate talent. He should have looked into a possible deal of Przybilla, Fernandez and Batum for Iguodala at the deadline. Philly knew they weren’t going anywhere and they really wanted to get out from under Iguodala’s contract – even if it didn’t provide immediate cap relief. Of course, if that trade were to take place, then Philly would have drafted Favors and Portland wouldn’t have sent us Webster.
Sam Cassell for Marko Jaric? That's ridiculous! I would never have traded Sam Cassell for Marko Jaric.
- Sam Cassell on McHale's decisions while running the Timberwolves.
B2B
Ok – time to draw the line.
Donnie Walsh had, for better than 2 years, made every decision revolve around 1 very specific goal – to get LBJ and 1 other max free agent to sign in the summer of 2010.
His draft choices, trades, his coaching hire – everything was done with the sole purpose of obtaining the goal. The fact that it did not happen does not detract from his clearly setting the goal and making every decision towards it. (By the way, this is another example of why I get so nervous about building around a player that is not yet on your roster)
Now, please clearly state Kahn’s goal and support his decision making process towards obtaining that goal in the last 16 months. Because, quite frankly, I can’t.
Goal:
To get Ricky Rubio and one relatively good free agent to sign with us while drafting, trading for, and signing players that fit into a defensively minded, uptempo, Rubio-orchestrated, system. All the while trying to lead the league in player development.
Towards that goal:
Passing on the BPAs for guys who fit that goal
Getting Darko, who is a good passer and should work well enough as a big defensive center
Trading for Martell Webster
Trading for Beasley (to an extent)
Signing Ridnour (again, to an extent)
Giving up on Sessions (still think this turns out to be a great trade for the Cavs)
Giving Hollins a shot… and then some
Trading away Jefferson
Drafting guys like Ellington and Lazar (who I think are both underrated for their ability to get up and down the court)
Getting rid of guys like Gomes and Smith while keeping Corey around
I’d give him a B- for his moves in relation to obtaining his goal (higher than I would give his moves outside of that context)
I’d also give him an A for trying to lead the league in player development. Not that he has shown much yet, but that he has tried to move towards that goal. Even more impressive? He has managed to get Glen’s ok for an arena and culture change while staying stingy on the budget. This remains the point where Kahn has impressed me the most. We need serious facility upgrades and culture upgrades and he seems to have done that. I like to hear how we are trying out new things (upgraded facilities, trainers coming in, nutrition guys, more guys to work with the players, etc). On top of that, I don’t know if it can really be attributed to him, but our players seem to have a good culture between themselves.
On a side note, he has made efforts to be a player-friendly team. He worked with guys to get them off the team so they could go where they pleased without any issues. He has also seemed to work well with our current players, at least in a boss/employee type relationship. Examples off the top of my head: Cardinal, Darko, Rubio to an extent, and Daniels.
You're not letting natural selection take its course! You're like the guy who invented the seatbelt...
I appreciate your work
and I will need to answer in some depth (maybe a complete fan post) that I can do in the time I have tonight. But let’s take just the 1st step.
Let’s accept your premise – Kahn’s goal is to build a defensive minded, up tempo team to be lead by Rubio. As such, all moves need to be assessed against that goal.
1st move – drafting Jonny Flynn. Happens within 5 minutes of getting Rubio. A ball dominant, smallish, pick and roll point guard, schooled in the Syracuse zone defense. How does this move us toward the goal? I would bet that most (including most here) would have thought Curry, a legit shooter with high Basketball IQ would be the choose. Keep in mind that, at the time, Kahn believed that he could get Rubio immediately – not having fully researched the constraints. (I do NOT fault Kahn here – no one on the staff (and less than 1% of all draft experts) expected Rubio to fall.) So, does Jonny Flynn move us closer?
More to come.
that should be can't do in the time I have tonight
I really wish we had an edit function. Argh!!
It seems like
I may have struck a nerve. Well, at least it suggests I’m on to something, right?
While I await your post (and seriously, I do, as you typically have great stuff), I will cover my own personal thoughts on Kahn and more specifically the TWolves FO structure:
Kahn was the fall back guy for Penn, the cheap ‘replacement’ who would keep Taylor’s guys on (the holdovers from McHale) and yet would still carry out the blood letting this organization needed. Understandably a lot of, shall we say, high quality candidates would balk at this. Notably, neither Lindsay or Penn have a GM position yet. Be that as it may, Kahn was cheap, was willing to go along with Glen’s stipulations, and was most of all an eager beaver who’d been waiting his entire life just for such an opportunity.
So Kahn, realizing that this was his one chance to do this, did what he’s always done in life – learn the rules, figure out how to game them, and play the two trump cards he has available: one, hire the best muscle (or help) you can (this would Rambis and all of Rambis’ assistants, and later Ronzone); and two, outwork everyone. Some people may be smarter, have better connections, or just simply more talent, but something tells me Kahn represents a small bit of the American dream in that pure and simple hard work can compensate for an awful lot in this society. Is he in over his head? Ya, probably. Is he flying by the seat of his pants? In hindsight, ya, probably. Did he make some big mistakes, especially in not having a coach on board before the draft? Yes, certainly yes.
Here, I think, is where you (and I’d venture SnP, but I’m not entirely sure) and I differ on Kahn. I believe he learns from his mistakes. He’s too…mmm…committed to beating other people, shall we say, to not learn from his failed strategies. My guess is Kahn is the type of guy who knows each and every person whom he feels has slighted him or gotten the better of him over the past 10 years. But inasmuch as Kahn hates being wrong about his take on things (because let’s face it, everyone knows what he is, including him, and that’s – to put it kindly – not your typical NBA GM, and to put it less kindly he was the fallback guy brought in because he’d do the blood letting that needed to be done), he is nothing if not adaptable to whatever will put him on top. That’s why, in my opinion, he took so long on a head coach. It’s also why he brought in Ronzone, a guy who has stated he wants to be a GM (and can effectively function as one here), and a guy who Kahn can use as much as Ronzone is using Kahn (to be perfectly blunt about it).
To get to the main point of things, Kahn may have been the last resort option, the guy GT picked because no one else would take the job. He may be underqualified and over his head. He may not have great basketball talent evaluation skills, and he certainly probably gaffed in trying to run his first draft himself. But that, to me, is beside a greater point – Kahn is the guy who’s been picked on his whole life by everyone, and he’s come out on top. He’s weasely, conniving, probably more vengeful than we know (in the sense that he knows exactly who’s ‘wronged’ him or doubted him and who hasn’t), but above all he’s a guy who’s figured out how to play ‘the games’ of corporate life better than most. In other words, you may not like him on a personal level, but he’s that guy you definitely want on your side in a war game.
I personally think he deserves a lot of credit for hiring Rambis and Ronzone and (this is the important part) for empowering them to do their jobs. Jonny, as a ‘reach’, was still valued as worth a lotto pick this year. That’s worth something. Wayne, as a Kahn pick, is looking like a really great value these days. That’s worth something. Is he Mr. Savant Presti as a GM, who lucked into one KD? No, but we would be doing a disservice to Jonny as a prospect if we called him a bust or a terrible choice. Be aware that after Jonny, only Curry and Jennings really did anything amongst the other rookies drafted. We could have done far, far worse than Jonny.
Ultimately my hope is that Kahn does recede into more of an overseer, contracts/legal type guy – the one who ultimately maps out strategy and trades and the like. I think that’s what he’s good at. Let Ronzone and Rambis take more of the lead on talent stuff. And for what it’s worth, these pre-season results are looking more and more compelling by the game – defensive intensity, multiple contested shots, improved shooting and ball movement. I don’t credit Kahn with identifying all the pieces for making this happen (guys like Webster, Beasley, and Wes), but I do credit him with managing the team and the cap in a way that put us in position to have the assets to get these guys without damaging the rest of the framework of the team Rambis wanted.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
by biggity2bit on Oct 12, 2010 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah I really just threw this together
in about 4 minutes after reading your post.
I’m not at all a fan of the Flynn pick, and for full disclosure: I would have drafted Curry for bait and then tried to trade down for DeRozan or T. Williams (in hindsight, DeRozan would still be my choice of the two, despite Williams’ recent play). Who knows what teams would have been willing to pay up for him. If it wasn’t enough I would have rolled with Curry (especially if Rubio was a question mark). Then I probably take Lawson with our next pick. I work out the deals later if I end up with Rubio/Curry/Lawson.
Flynn is and always will be a giant question mark. It was valid, just not the best choice by most peoples’ point of view.
I will say this though: Kahn thought (incorrectly) that Flynn could play next to Rubio (or so he said?) and, to be fair, if that had worked out they could have been (could be?) quite the duo to watch.
I look forward to your post as I think there are a lot of question marks (and I generally agree with you and SnP, I was just playing a little devil’s advocate while also trying to be fair to Kahn).
You're not letting natural selection take its course! You're like the guy who invented the seatbelt...
I'll try
Plan: Create the opportunity to compile a team that can contend for a championship.
Step 1: Select an identity
Athletic running team in the mold of Showtime Lakers (not seven seconds or less)
Step 2: Draft players and select coaches to fit that identity
Flynn fits because he’s very athletic. Rambis fits because of his coaching philosophy and his association with the showtime Lakers. Darko fits, Webster fits, Brewer fits, Wes Johnson fits, etc.
Step 3: Create cap space to allow your team the opportunity to make a “singular move” to acquire a number one option. Big time free agents won’t come to MN. So the only two ways to get a big time player is via the draft or via trade. The only way to acquire a player of this caliber via trade is to have cap space, draft picks, and young cheap players with potential who play a similar position as the high caliber acquisition. This is why you accumulate young athletic wings, because you want to find a dynamic veteran wing.
Step 3 is the key. I will not be upset if they do not acquire a number 1 option this year. They haven’t had the opportunity to select a number 1 option in the draft (DMC is not a top 15 player in the NBA, ever). So the only options remain keep waiting for draft luck and retain the assets required to make a trade for a number 1 option.
The difficult part of step 3 is that it requires discipline and patience. If the team does not maintain the discipline of reserving cap space the plan goes haywire. Cap space is lost by paying to keep players who are not number 1 options and for whom cap-friendly replacements can be found.
That is it. He’s done a fine job.
I would drive 10 miles to hear fucktwats sing.
by littleboxes on Oct 12, 2010 11:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Too much to respond to
Sacramento (a team roughly in the same boat as the Wolves at the time of the hiring) refuses to pay an unproven head coaching candidate beyond 2 years. This situation reminds me of when Green Bay and the Vikes were searching for coaching candidates. Minny gets the “desired” candidate in both cases. How does anything that I wrote relate to McHale? I wrote at the time that he should have been axed with Wittman. You’re all over the place on this one.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
FWIW:
This is a good case study of why I decided that this post would be the last call on me going down this route. There’s no good way to write about why I feel this way about the guy/front office without turning this site into a gossip page.
As much as it pains me to say it, there are very good reasons why this guy has a terrible national rep and it’s not just odd ball quotes about Darko (which I defended…along with his signing) or Beasley. This guy has a very particular back story that really adds a lot of layers to how he deals with people, particularly co workers and reporters.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Then please
share the backstory, because I don’t know any of it. What I know is what I see on the court, who I see as the hires and selections, and what I hear on the radio or on TV. And from all of that, Kahn looks like a good hire to me.
I think this is where I have the toughest time with the take you have on Kahn, and that is that it seems clear that there’s stuff you know about him that tempers your view of him, but you either can’t or won’t share that stuff with us. I guess it’s not so much that I disagree with you, I just feel ultimately that I can’t engage in meaningful debate about him because we’re playing on two different playing fields – one where you and JAF, for example, know ‘the inside scoop’ and one where the rest of us only get to see what’s in the news and on the court. It’s like the point that DMC supporters frequently make about the kid – how do we really know he’s a cancer? There’s really not that much to suggest that he is in the news, but there are persistent rumors and innuendos that he’s a loose cannon. Well, which is it? Without having first hand knowledge of him, do we believe the rumor or go with what we see on the court and in the news?
It’s a fair question, and one I need to own up to myself as I know I have defended Kahn before (see my comments above for example), but then used the same rumor based reasoning for putting down the DMC pick. I don’t think I was/am right for doing that. Damn! Alright Wes, you just got a hella lot more competition to live up to!
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
by biggity2bit on Oct 12, 2010 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I kind of agree
With the evidence before me, I judge Kahn as “competent”. If the evidence lacks context, but that context is a secret, then what am I to think? I will continue to judge Kahn as “competent” until I see evidence to the contrary.
Where I disagree is on sharing the backstory. I’m fine judging Kahn as “competent” based solely on what I see as a series of team-improving transactions. If you, SnP, disagree with me because you have more info, then fine. I’m not trying to convince you, and frankly, a novel’s worth of scandals wouldn’t change my opinion of Kahn’s transactions.
Next thing you know, they'll take my thoughts away.
And that last sentence..
…is exactly why we’re dropping it with this post. There’s no good way to do it and even if there were, he could still win out at the end of the day. I think the best way to describe it is that we got a little TMI about the guy and it’s colored everything we can process about how he operates and that, combined with us being tired about writing about the front office, makes for a good time to change the focus of the above-the-fold writing.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
If you want to enjoy you meal
don’t go into the kitchen. didn’t you ever work in the food service industry?
Plus, Kahn’s an executive in a culture obsessed with playing it safe. It’s like a story I have about TV network decision makers that I don’t have time to share at the moment. I would guess that a similar level of insight into any number of organizations would leave you equally horrified. Of course I say that with no knowledge at all.
This is my theory as well
My suspicion is that, while SnP’s TMI about Our Kahn’s methods has made him appropriately pessimistic about our front office, his lack of similar TMI about other franchises has made him overly impressed with all the other front offices in the NBA.
Our POBO may well be a bozo, but I think the league is lousy with bozos.
If it wasn't for disappointments, I wouldn't have any appointments
I should clarify...
This doesn’t mean Kahn gets a free pass in my book. My opinion of him is based on results. If what I’m perceiving now as “team-improving” proves to be the opposite, then his star falls.
I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt a little (in that so far the trades haven’t led to better results) because of hope and fandom, and because, on paper, the team is vastly superior to where it has been, while also having an identity.
The lack of identity was my biggest problem in the late-KG era and lasted until pretty much now.
So, what I mean to say is that the verdict is (obviously) still out, but in my eyes, so far so good on the transactions front (which is his only front that interests me).
Next thing you know, they'll take my thoughts away.
re: TMI - You saw him...
…wearing more horrid shorts with black socks and white sneaks, didn’t you! That’s the TMI! Or, dare I say, was he wearing…Birkenstocks??!!
Gahhh!!!!! The image is now seared into my brain!! Nooooooooo!!!!……….
;)
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
by biggity2bit on Oct 12, 2010 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Actually...
…yeah ;) It was pretty upsetting to see a guy with that much money dress like that ;)
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Random interjection:
Does anyone else hope that Ronzone takes over for Kahn some day? Then surround him with guys to complement his strengths? At least we’d have that McHale-ian feel back with the league and the media!
You're not letting natural selection take its course! You're like the guy who invented the seatbelt...
I'd put money on the claim...
….that Tony Ronzone falls in the group that hopes Tony Ronzone takes over for Kahn some day.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
When Glen hired Kahn
he described his job truly as a POBO. While we all assumed this was just title inflation, which we have seen around the league, I think Glen really wanted a big picture exec. Someone on the basketball side who had skill in contracts, cap planning, long term planning.
Remember the rumor of how several of the Wolves top choices to replace McHale declined because they wouldn’t be given the freedom to clean house and build their own FO immediately. Kahn agreed to let people continue on in their current contracts and make changes as those expired.
I kind of feel like Kahn has been the “Acting GM” for this period. And it is probably not a great role for him. We need a real GM, and it may be that Kahn and Glen would agree. They may have been waiting for some contracts to expire and the right candidate to emerge. They may also be hoping that Ronzone will grow into the role.
If Kahn ends up as the manager for the GM, and empowers him to make the BB/talent decisions, it seems like a structure that could work. Kahn has a vision and seems to have the financial stuff figured out.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Oct 12, 2010 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions
This..
….
Remember the rumor of how several of the Wolves top choices to replace McHale declined because they wouldn’t be given the freedom to clean house and build their own FO immediately. Kahn agreed to let people continue on in their current contracts and make changes as those expired.
Is spot on. He agreed to do it on the cheap (i.e. keep people on until the end of their contracts or until they quit) and he was the one candidate who knew EXACTLY what Papa Glen wanted to hear. The guy definitely has a talent for guessing what people with money in their pockets want to hear.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
If it's spot on, then again:
We can throw all the pies we want at Kahn, but it’s Glen who’s been the problem for the last season and more.
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
I don't know
Ronzone seems more like a guy that you’d have a beer with (kinda like McHale) and who has this niche expertise, but is perhaps less savvy in the bigger picture stuff. But that’s just my first blush impression.
by Rascal Flatts on Oct 12, 2010 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions
I read a thing
in a Detroit news website (sorry, can’t find it now), from a few years back when he started working with Team USA, and basically he said his ultimate goal is to be the GM of his own team. In that sense SnP’s suggestion that some basketball people around the league might be interested in coming here because of the opportunity generated by Kahn’s inexperience might be right on. Ronzone’s work with us has to be about as close to being a GM (at least in terms of talent evaluation) without actually being one as there is in the NBA. And honestly, if all this goes south, Kahn is the one to get axed and arguably Rambis and Ronzone could emerge as the leading candidates to keep around.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
I agree completely
but is that a bad thing? I liked McHale enough as a person. He did well with the reporters and other GMs in the league, by all reports I have heard or not heard (I hear Danny Ainge liked him more than most). The only thing I had against him was his ability to put forth enough effort to know what he was doing. McHale is the definition of why stats are bad. If used incorrectly… blah blah blah. He didn’t put forth enough effort into scouting these guys (Jaric springs to mind). One good season and he was on their bandwagon.
On to Ronzone: I feel the difference between him and McHale is all about effort. By all accounts, Ronzone is everywhere, in every circle, and scouting tons of guys. I don’t want to take him out of his niche by making him the GM, which is why I would offer him a full complement of basketball minds to help him out. If Rambis proves to be a good talent evaluator and coach, he should definitely stay on. Then look for guys who are good with the payroll, salaries, etc. It would give us a good international image (imagine how many coaches or guys close to international players would speak praises of Ronzone) and seemingly a good national image as well (he’s not a skeevy ass clown like Kahn comes off as during interviews).
I guess to me, it comes down to the logic that it’s bad to have one guy in charge of all that stuff anyways, so why not get a guy who maximizes a couple departments (goodwill and international repore (sp? There’s an accent on that word, isn’t there?)) and get guys to surround him who can do the rest. I don’t want my GM working the phones, running the draft, scouting nationally and internationally, dealing with salaries and taxes and caps, managing talent and expecatations, and dealing with the media. What else am I missing? Either way, too much for one person. I’d rather have a guy who already does a few of those things extremely well. Plus, we’d have someone who actually has experience in the business before he gets hired! A lot of experience at that. Basketball minds can not be underestimated. McHale certainly had basketball talent, but not necessarily a mind for evaluating it more than on TV. Kahn? He’s just a lawyer who happened to get into basketball.
You're not letting natural selection take its course! You're like the guy who invented the seatbelt...
I always thought
it was spelled rapport.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
by biggity2bit on Oct 12, 2010 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions
That'd be it
You're not letting natural selection take its course! You're like the guy who invented the seatbelt...
What?
I don’t agree at all that there’s no plan. I don’t know if I agree with it yet — who are these guys anyway. You have passing bigs, good-shooting wings, everyone allegedly plays good defense, Beasley is your volume scorer and potential superstar. Webster wasn’t just some player that was offered to us — Kahn went out and got him. Don’t you think Webster and Wes are two versions of the same player? Is that a coincidence? Random variation? Now, I will argue that Rambis probably told Kahn “get me a veteran wing that shoots well and plays good defense” and handed him a list of names, but IMO Kahn is now listening to good advice. I just wish he had hired Rambis before the draft instead of after.
The failure to hire a coach before
a draft in which you had 4 of the top 30 selections has got to be the single biggest mistake a GM can make (unless they similarly failed to do so before a draft with 5 of the top 30 selections). In my opinion that’s almost a fire-able offense by itself.
Sam Cassell for Marko Jaric? That's ridiculous! I would never have traded Sam Cassell for Marko Jaric.
- Sam Cassell on McHale's decisions while running the Timberwolves.
Here's the thing:
Why worry about stuff that you have no control over except your pocketbook? I don’t have a problem with being negative (there’s plenty of fodder for it) or pessimistic (some take that perspective because of superstition or because they’re jaded which is also acceptable). But this is supposed to be fun. There are plenty of possibly negative things in life that people don’t discuss because they have no agency in the matter; wouldn’t being a sports fan qualify under that category? It’s a lot easier to stop buying gear/going to games/paying for League Pass if you don’t like the team’s decisions (which I did 2 years ago because McHale and Wittman still had jobs) than it is to, say, stop paying taxes or move to a different country because of qualms about economic or foreign policy. The Wolves obviously need fans, but what’s the point of being a fan if it’s a source of aggravation?
Ultimately, this is the team on the floor: take it or leave it. What’s most important to me is how this team can succeed and what might trip them up, which teams they match up well with and which ones give them trouble, why certain players are or aren’t fitting with the style of play (beyond “because he sucks”), etc. I started going to this site because it was the closest thing to Britt’s old blog on the Web, the only place where a person could focus on the game and cut through the bullshit one wades through at the Strib message board or TWolvesBlog (at least what it was when I visited there). It’s really not like that as much as it used to be. Is the optimism kinda nauseating? Sure. But isn’t optimism part of being a sports fan? Watching sports is the epitome of a leisure activity; it has no bearing whatsoever on the health of a nation or a society. At some point, wringing one’s hands over who should/could be on this roster and/or what should/n’t be done takes away from the game-by-game details. I’d much rather talk about what specifically causes them to win/lose each game than keep bringing it back to a familiar narrative, because ultimately that’s easy and requires little critical effort.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Oct 12, 2010 1:48 PM CDT reply actions
A Day Late.. Maybe a Dollar Short?
As a no-longer Vikings fan and a moderately interested Twins fan, I find it very disturbing that the one team that I still care deeply about is the one that just barely improved on the New Jersey Net’s record last season!
There were a few games where disinterested teams like OKC weren’t able to completely embarrass the Timberpups last year, and thank god I was at a few, but the overall level of suckitude was near epic.
I can picture that being in a position of closer contact with the confident and fearless crew of the USS Minnow could lead one to lose faith in the heading the ship is on, but there is always the possibility of serendipity intervening and a fair wind taking us to safer harbors and away from the rocky shoals that seem to surround us.
Of course, this isn’t a TV show, and the folks in the front office aren’t actors, but I still want to believe that Laimbeer, Ronzone, Theus, and the assistant coaching cast of thousands will have enough input to keep Kahn and Rambis away from Shipwreck Shoals.
I also want to believe that as long as the TWolves record remains in the 20 to 30 wins category, tickets will be cheap enough to afford and so will beer!
Go Timberpups! And definitely let me know when the next CH gathering is, DO NOT want to miss it!
"The Human race has only one really effective weapon, and that is laughter"-Mark Twain
re: Kahn
As president of basketball ops, David Kahn’s job is what? To put a competitive team on the floor, which he has done. To say he he doesn’t know what he is doing is ludicrous. To put together the team he has considering the team he inherited is astounding. Better players at EVERY position and still with bunches of cap-room and picks. Sure he may be a bit abrasive and (insert negative Kahn adjective here) but so what? The man graduated from UCLA, has a law degree from NYU, was GM of the Pacers and was a founding owner of 4 NBDL teams; not to mention he is a personal favorite of David Stern. His basketball IQ might be lacking but that is where Ronzone helps. Kahn knows what he is doing I can’t figure out why so many cannot see that. I like the direction this franchise is going and can’t wait to see the Wolves win some games and get some fans back in the Target Center. It has been a while.
I know u told me to not keep it mean, but the wolves r going 2 suck and suck royally.
by Jeffrey Thompson on Oct 13, 2010 10:12 AM CDT reply actions
I like you, Jeffrey
but not as much as I like ice cream.
I would drive 10 miles to hear fucktwats sing.
by littleboxes on Oct 13, 2010 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions

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