5 more things we learned from preseason
by Oceanary on Oct 7, 2010 12:13 AM CDT
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PrintFinal Score: Wolves 106 - Knicks 100
This game meant a little more. Unlike the Lakers, who are coming off a championship season with their entire team intact and then some, the Knicks very closely mirror our own Wolves. Very high roster turnover. Meaning not much time to develop cohesiveness so far. Meaning lots of minutes for the New York starters in a serious effort to win.
Hmm. Too bad for them.
Preseason isn't the season. If it were, it wouldn't be "pre". But as always, there are things we can take away from this game still.
1: This team has a bench
Today's big statistic: every single Wolves starter was a net negative on the floor for a cumulative -22. Martell Webster, by himself, was a net +20. The bench as a whole was a net + 52.
Ultimately, at least in terms of depth, it doesn't matter whether Love, Beasley, Johnson, or Webster are starting or not. There will be serious talent coming off the bench for us, guaranteed. For the first time in what feels like forever, we have players we can substitute in who aren't undersized and overwhelmed.
2: Rebounding won't be a problem if the team doesn't let it be
Yes, Kevin Love is the only standout rebounder on the roster. And to be fair, he's so remarkable on the glass he practically counts as two players in that department. But although the likes of Darko, Pekovic, and Beasley aren't exactly double digit rebounding machines, this team is hardly window deficient. Martell Webster, Corey Brewer, and Wes Johnson are all above-average rebounders for their positions, and the team as a whole...as shown today....can make up for the lack of traditional trench warfare with a cohesive team effort. Eight Wolves grabbed at least 5 boards today. Our point guards alone combined for 13.
The lack of great rebounders in the post doesn't automatically spell doom for a team, nor vice versa. Last season, the Thunder and Suns finished 3rd and 6th in rebounding respectively, despite neither team having a single player average over 9 rebounds a game. The Wolves had two of the best rebounders in the league, and won 15 games. This season we have the personnel to be a great rebounding team in the mold of Oklahoma City...the only reason rebounding will be a problem night in and night out this year will be if the team lets it.
3: Wesley Johnson is going to be really, really good
And yes, DeMarcus Cousins....who by the way, dropped 16-16 on the Suns last night....is going to be really really good too. But Wes has plenty of talent, and today he started to show the all-around game that made him a prized pick in the draft. 12 point, 5 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 steals in just over 20 minutes of action. For as much that gets debated about his flaws, this guy has a ton going for him in the NBA. He's a brigade's worth of firepower, particularly from deep. He gets off the floor like a rocket and drops from the sky once he's airborne. He's not great moving with the ball, but he moves the ball exceptionally well. And it appears...so far at least....that fears the 'Cuse zone defense would cause problems for him in the NBA are unfounded.
With his skillset and athleticism, I predict it's just a matter of time...and not much time at that...before Wes gets invited to play for team USA alongside Love.
4: We're going to struggle with turnovers most of the year
Even though the system is carried over from last year, the roster is not. Only 4 players remain from just a year ago (well....3 1/2...) meaning we have 10 (and a half..?) new players learning the triangle for the first time. Ridnour shouldn't have much trouble, but Beasley and Johnson in particular figure to be very up and down taking care of the ball this year.
That said, once the team figures it out to even a fundamental level, we're going to see some of the most exciting basketball the Wolves have played....well, maybe ever. Bryant and Gasol both commented last season that the team....despite the horrible amalgamation roster....were executing the triangle well. Meaning Rambis can indeed teach it effectively. This year's team will pick it up given time, and unlike last year's team, actually have the talent to finish the plays off.
5: Luke Ridnour might be this summer's biggest pickup for the team
There's a common theme with most of the players we acquired this summer....they can shoot, rebound, and run the floor. Luke Ridnour....well, he actually doesn't particularly do any of those things well. What he brings to the table is far more important.
Luke Ridnour leads.
Consider the Lakers. They have Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom, and a flawlessly executed triangle system coached by arguably the greatest coach in NBA history, yet know they cannot get away with young kids and hybrid players at the point guard spot. That's why Derek Fisher still starts despite the fact he's slower than every point guard he plays opposite of, and misses 99% of his layups. That's why the team won't trust Shannon Brown when it matters, and why they switched youngster Jordan Farmar for veteran Steve Blake.
The point guard position is the first link in the decision making chain, even in a practically inverted offense like the triple--post triangle. What Ridnour does first with the ball dictates what the rest of the team does after it leaves his hands. And he's a legitimate mentor for Flynn as well....keep in mind, this is the guy the Bucks had show Brandon Jennings the ropes last year.
It won't show up in his modest statlines, but Luke Ridnour's presence this year is going to be invaluable.
Oh, and for those of you who didn't catch Monday's game:
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Few more things ...
1. Could Pekovic share court with Love. It looks to me that unfortunate answer is no. They are too similar in some aspects to successfully do that. Did they play together at any given moment in 2 pre-season games?
2. Does Beasley helps or hurts team with his style of playing? He either has very poor court vision or doesn’t understand that when he is doubled there is somewhere on the court who is free. Or neither of those two, but he is overconfident and intentionally force things instead of passing to teammates. Also, on defense he is sometimes completely lost. Although it is something that everybody expect (he plays the same way last year in Miami) I am little disappointed. I like it much more when Wes is on the court.
3. Rebounding always was team business (and OKC really beautifully demonstrate this last year). Ridnour didn’t have 8 rebounds today because he is jumping high but because our bigs were boxing out on each possession. Darko and Pek don’t need to increase their rebounding rate if they continue to box out and tip balls to teammates (as Darko did several times today on offensive end).
4. Time to really learn triangle offense is 1-1.5 years. That means don’t expect to big roster changes in following years like this summer. Lakers for example have stable roster for years.
5. If we are going to do lot of offense through Darko, like today, we need more player movement and more blocks around. Darko has realistically low efficiency in finishing things on low post and doesn’t draw fouls (and has low FT%). Offense through him need to more frequently finish with passing, not with Darko finishing, and this isn’t possible without more player movement.
by andromeda on Oct 7, 2010 12:54 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I think Beasley just needs time to develop in his role. He’s taking on a completely different role at the NBA level than he had at Miami, and so I think we’re going to see some nights where he seems out of sync and forcing stuff and other nights where he’s dropping 35 and taking over games. I think we need to give him a good 40-50 games to learn and adapt his game and understand the subtle differences between when playing within the offense will do the work for you and when you just need to put your head down and create.
As for Pek, I think he can play with anybody, honestly. I think we have 4 very smart and potentially excellent off the ball bigs in Love, Darko, Pek, and Tolliver. I think you point out a great observation – Darko and Pek are good to great at boxing out people and helping their own teammates get rebounds. When is the last time that we’ve seen bigs who do so much work away from the ball to try and get their teammates easier looks or lanes to the basket or rebounds or whatever? Furthermore, I think such awareness will allow them to play together fairly easily. They’ll get what one guy is trying to do and be more likely to adjust their game accordingly, know what I mean?
Finally, I think a bunch of our TOs yesterday were due simply to guys not always anticipating the pass coming, or just being slightly off the mark with their passing. I think this is to be expected. Rambis is having these guys go from offenses that are much more iso heavy or set play calling heavy to one where they’re making their own decisions and passing the ball a ton. If they weren’t missing some of those passes now (especially when you’ve got Love and Darko zipping between the legs and behind the back no look passes), we certainly would be seeing this from the team when Rubio gets here. They’ll adjust and I think the TOs will go down noticeably. We’ll still have them, of course, and other teams will start playing for steals more, but I think it’s a very, very positive development for this team that they’re passing and sticking with it.
OK, really last thing – Darko will be fine offensively, eventually. Just give him reps, and let the coaches guide him through his mental block (which is what I think it is – he thinks too much when he’s going to attempt a shot and thus clutches up, he just needs to let it rip, Larry Brown be damned).
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
and, of course
the best way for Darko to get past his head trip is if he doesn’t read a lot of hypercritical crap from fans like Brewer’s always getting.
Sometimes I wonder if fans stop to think that players do read some of this stuff.
No autopsy, no foul.
I hope the players don't read this.
Darko, turn off your computer and hit the gym! DO NOT listen to us. We are idiots, trust me.
by princelyfrank on Oct 7, 2010 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I am not aware of any players
who frequent this site; but last year there was a FO underling who read it daily as part of his “new media” position.
heh
“new media”…nice. I’m not sure it really qualifies as new anymore. But I suppose that is largely generational semantics.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Oct 7, 2010 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions
JAF - Long time no see!
How is it going? Any insight to share?
Seems like the Kahnzonebis plan is going along pretty well so far.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Oct 7, 2010 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Little out of the loop
took a multi week vacation in Sept and by the time I got back, the team was gone. So not much communication with my friend. Should have a chance to catch up in Sioux Falls (pheasants, buddies and basketball – a great combination) and will post any insights I can.
As dropstep, I think, mentioned in the game thread,
Partly the Knicks have a poorly-built roster in terms of the balance between boards and blocks.
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
And the Lakers have an exceptionally well-built roster in terms of rebounds and blocks
Most nights we’ll be facing teams that fall somewhere in between
one more thing
Meaning lots of minutes for the New York starters in a serious effort to win.
Wouldnt agree w/ that, everyone of yall starters logged more minutes. Except for our Felton….but hey.. good game from a new look twolves team.
We definately got our ass handed to in the rebound battle.. thats where yall one the game.
"they try to do what he do, and been where he's been, but they get folded in two.....he's the dude"
Felton's an interesting story this year.
He took the qualifying offer last year from Charlotte, and basically with the move to New York it’s looking like he couldn’t stand Larry Brown so much. D’Antoni’s an interesting change for the kid….
The influx of PG talent two drafts ago seriously changed the landscape of the league. Before that draft teams like Minnesota were longing for guys like Sessions and Ray Felton, but after it those same young veteran points were probably undervalued.
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
Stoudemire was getting lots of time
until D’Antoni realized what the problems were, and that the game was lost (or that he didn’t care if they lost). Amare’s minutes were right up there until the 4Q
No autopsy, no foul.
Rebounds and Free Throws is where the Wolves won the game.
Sam Cassell for Marko Jaric? That's ridiculous! I would never have traded Sam Cassell for Marko Jaric.
- Sam Cassell on McHale's decisions while running the Timberwolves.
how has paul george and aminu looked?
It’s not exactly a hard task for him to be the best wing out of this draft. Very few real contenders, but the guy does look legit.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Oct 7, 2010 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions
George went 2-9 for 4 points and 2 rebounds in 26 minutes last night
And Aminu won’t get enough minutes to make a significant impact anyways
The biggest rival Wes has for a spot on the first team all rookie roster is obviously Evan Turner, but he hasn’t looked very good so far either. I think the two guys most likely to make a big run at Wes’ spot are Gordon Hayward and James Anderson…both are on great teams that will still let them play significant minutes and keep them in their natural roles
Aminu
against Portland played 18 minutes and missed all of his shots (scored 1 point on FTs), had 4 TOs, and fouled out. That is the extent of his stats (well, he was – 17 in +/-).
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
I just don't think he'll play enough regardless
Eric Gordon has the 2 locked down for the Clippers, which means Aminu will be fighting both Rasual Butler and Ryan Gomes for minutes…both of whom have more experience and complete skillsets.
I think Aminu’s going to be pretty good in a few years, but right now the opportunity isn’t there for him
Which may be
for all the better for Aminu. Taking some time to learn from Gomes-y wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world for Aminu at this point.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
There was a report on Rumor Central
(you know where) that Turner’s role this season was going to be backing up Jrue Holiday at the point. Ouch! The coach was quoted as saying that’s where he’s most comfortable. I was thinking that that was very disappointing for the Sixers, and would have been more so for the Wolves if they’d given up a ton of resources for one more PG whose fit along Rubio would be a question. But, in the Sixers forst game there was none of that, he seemed to play the 2 off the bench and was the first guy subbed in to play along Holiday. So, to be determined…
Ya looking back I don't know why I wanted Turner so bad on the Wolves...
Beasley is a way better fit for the shot creation type player than Turner right now.
The more I look at old Turner highlights I see a guy with pretty decent ball handling skills schooling mediocre defenders. No real speed, jumping ability…features that will haunt you in the NBA.
by Timberwolf i.e. Albatross on Oct 7, 2010 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions
I do.
Turner would look awesome on the Wolves. I think he ended up on about the worst possible team for him in Philadelphia.
ya...I just haven't seen any ray of hope out of him so far
All that skill and he isn’t putting up any impressive stats other than 5 rebounds a game.
I like where we are at now and may actually like this team more without him.
by Timberwolf i.e. Albatross on Oct 7, 2010 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Former #2 draft pick "busts" is more like it. %
Sam Cassell for Marko Jaric? That's ridiculous! I would never have traded Sam Cassell for Marko Jaric.
- Sam Cassell on McHale's decisions while running the Timberwolves.
It's a rich vein, #2 overall
Stromile Swift
Tyson Chandler
Jay Williams
Darko
Emeka Okafor
Marvin Williams
LaMarcus Aldridge
Durant
Beasley
Thabeet
Evan Turner
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
They were as passive taking him as we were taking Johnson.
At least with Wesley there was “fit.” At #2 overall Philadelphia coasted. They needed to make a move on that one.
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
I still think Turner will be a pretty good player
but I was always surprised with how many people would have taken him over Wall. That’s just silly and I think people will start to see that very soon. And I do think he would be doing a lot better on the Wolves than in Philly. Also, I still think Cousins will be a better pick than Turner as well :)
You're not letting natural selection take its course! You're like the guy who invented the seatbelt...
If any team SHOULD have picked for need, it was the Sixers
Philly did the same thing we did with Love….they took their best player, then drafted a guy who mirrors 90% of his skillset and plays the same position. Now they’re stuck with incompatible pieces that unbalance the roster, and Turner is stuck on a team that can’t give him the opportunity he deserves or can maximize
If you think that the Sixers could have had a perimeter trio of Iguodala, Holiday, and Wes Johnson…that would have been stellar in a couple years. Instead now they have to rely on guys like Nocioni and Young at the 3 while still having huge holes in their perimeter shooting game
I don't know about Turner
I still think he would’ve rocked on this team. We wouldn’t have Martell Webster, for sure, but then again with a guy like Turner you’d slide Ellington over to PG because Turner’d be the guy bringing the ball up. I guess there’d be no Wes either, so maybe Martell would still be here.
Anyways, I think the appeal of Turner is that he’s huge, can handle the rock, understands the game of basketball, plays defense, and (I hate to say it) is perfect insurance against anything that happens with Rubio. However, having seen how we’ve played these last two games it sure is making a whole lot more sense why the Wolves were so high on Wes.
Also, apropos of not this, anybody see the clip where Anthony Randolph strips Darko of the ball and goes down for a baby dunk? Ya, Darko got schooled on that play, but when talking about bigs for a running team, check out that sprint from Darko! He basically keeps up with Anthony Randolph, a guy who I think many of us feel is among the more mobile and fast ‘big’ men out there (I put big in quotes because AR plays more like a SF/SG than a true big).
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
I definitely agree
Turner’s problem is his situation. I think if we had taken him, he’d be rocking out right now.
The problem is that the Sixers play a grinding halfcourt style and have no one to spread the floor, so when Turner has the ball, he gets swarmed and there’s nothing he can do about it
Oops, just mentioned the same thing above.
But yeah, I think Turner is going to fade from the conversation a little bit this year, as guys like Wall, DMC, and Griffin dominate the ROY talks and Turner struggles to fit on a team with Iggy and Holiday duplicating all his strengths.
I think we’ll forget why we pined so hard for the guy, but I think the reality is that he’d look a lot better (and have a lot more national buzz, too, as strange as that seems) if he were in Minnesota.
He’s got intimidating size for a guard, and is so smooth and good with the ball. If he had the chance to be the go-to perimeter guy in a system that fits his talents here, I think he’d impress a lot of people. But yes, the Sixers should have taken Cousins.
So here's a question
if Philly impodes/struggles through the first 40 games this year, do we approach them for a trade – either for Iggy or even Turner (but I’d assume they’d want to rebuild around him)? Would you still want Iggy?
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
First reaction:
Yes.
But I guess if the reason for the implosion is because Iggy’s play is taking a dive, then we’d stay away. But if he’s playing well and the pieces just don’t fit around him, then I think he’s one of the top few guys we should be targeting with our cap space.
He can handle and create shots — something we don’t currently have — which is huge for when Rubio is sitting (or before he comes here). His athleticism makes him a great fit in transition next to Rubio, and his ability to create and kick it out fits well with the rest of our wings and shooting bigs.
Turner does not have good athleticism
Wes and Webster are better athletes. The only way I try to deal for Turner if I knew Rubio was not coming here otherwise they duplicate each other’s skill sets. Ok athletes with shaky jump shots
Disagree on what
Both guys Turner and Rubio both have Ok athletes with shaky jump shots. Iguodala contract is bad for what he gives a team. His Jump shot is bad too.
(Not so sure about his size intimidating.)
In most of the combine measures that seem to matter – wingspan, reach, &c – James Harden is a measure better as a physical specimen. Harden’s wingspan, for example, is 6’10.75" to Turner’s 6’8". And James Harden is only 6’5" in shoes.
That was one of the things that took the luster off, a little, with Evan T. He had this reputation as a Scottie Pippen-style long, rangy guy who could defend maybe three spots, but he didn’t measure that way at the combine. Nobody’s going to use him as a three, much.
(It sure seemed to me like Minnesota and Philly were likely to swap #2 and #4. Hmm. Maybe Rambis’s preoccupation with “length” nudged him away from wanting to do that, after the combine?…. [shrug])
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
I think the thing with Turner
is you’ve got to let him run the team. That’s what you draft him for. He’s not a role player, per se, because he doesn’t really have some single attribute the leaps off the page other than leadership and competitiveness. What he is good at, though, is finding teammates and setting his team up and making good decisions. He’s a lot like Love in that way – he can be a productive guy but he’s best when you just let him go out and do his thing and not try to force him into being a limited role player. In that sense going to Philly and especially hiring Doug Collins is about the worst place for him (are we going to see Darko redux?). Turner’s stuck behind Jrue and Iggy, and isn’t a good enough athlete or shooter to be a specialist at something (like a defensive specialist or three point specialist).
I think Turner’s best hope is that Philly struggles early and management decides to blow the team to hell and start over. He needs to play, and more importantly he needs to be given some free rein to play and create.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
He had shorter arms than expected, yeah.
But I’m willing to bet that at least in ways that matter to basketball (not sure about their bench presses) Turner is a lot stronger and packs a bigger punch than Harden.
But, to me at least, that doesn’t change the fact that Turner — for reasons that must go beyond arm length and reach — Turner can physically impose most guards he’ll face.
Philly could have taken Cousins, at 2 or after dropping a bit.
They had the first Chuck Barkley, why not another one? They even dealt out of Dalembert before draft night.
Whatever those big red flags are, they’d better be real.
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
Yeah, we're not the only team that passed on Cousins
And I think he would have made sense in Philly. Evan Turner was amazing in college, and I’m looking forward to seeing how much of that was matching up against inferior size/talent and how much was his own superior talent.
It wasn't that they had Chuck once...
it’s that they had Derrick Coleman—twice. That would be enough of the Taunting of Talent for any team to choke down in a lifetime. DMC is that guy.
I'd say Wes is top 3 or 4 among the rookies right now.
BTW, I haven’t watched any full Wolves game yet. Has Wes been slamin’ it down like he did in college? I’d love to see him in the dunk contest. And the way he shot threes last year made me fall in love with him. Does he have a shot to partake in the 3-point shootout?
Wow, I am REALLY getting excited about the T’Wolves right now. Mainly because of Wes and Super Cool Beas. :D
No dunks
other than the off the backboard one from Ridnour that I can remember.
He’s looking really, really good from distance, though. Just a really great, easy and smooth shot. The speculation is that he’s not going hard to the rim right now because his hamstring is still a little tender.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
Great that he's still smooth from 3
I hope he gets in dunking shape soon though. That would make the Wolves even more fun to watch. I mean, the Wolves aren’t really a lock in the top 10 dunks of the week last season (with the only two memorable ones being Brewer taking off on Fisher and the one Hollins made).
Does anyone know
if there’s a more, or I guess the right word would be ‘less’ Knick oriented highlight clip?
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
you noticed the same thing, huh?
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Oct 7, 2010 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions
Weird...I watched it and thought the same thing, before reading the comments
And then I watched it a second time and counted, and there were 7 Knicks highlights vs. 5 Wolves. It seemed worse, and I think its because multiple Knicks highlights were played more than once. Glad I’m not the only one that noticed this.
Here's one
that’s a little better. Got some nice Wes highlights.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
The only thing worse than the footage is the write ups on this game
No one other than a few sources give the Wolves any credit for improved play, and chalk this up to Pre-season. The knicks themselves were quoted as being taken off guard by our defense.
by Timberwolf i.e. Albatross on Oct 7, 2010 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Amare's defense comment...
I saw a write up somewhere that mentioned he said that. I couldn’t get a read on what he meant by that though. Did he mean he isn’t used to seeing team defense played that well for early in the pre-season? Or did he mean that the Wolves were trying harder on defense than most teams do, with it just being pre-season. I’d like to think it was a compliment, but Amare is a douche. Not sure.
I was reading on Posting and Toasting
(the Knicks SBNation blog), and one guy on there was talking about how he’s happy they signed Amare because he’s going to bring them to a championship. Oh man, that added 10 minutes to my longevity (because, you know, a good laugh supposedly adds 10 minutes to your life).
On the whole, though, they’re playing the ’it’s just preseason’ card a lot, but my take on it is that they sounded a lot like we did the last couple of years – they’ve got some good players/stars but are upset with their performances (Gallo and Felton especially), they think that some of their young guys are going to become stars this year (Wilson Chandler, Fields, Mozgov), and they’re really trying to convince themselves that this team will win more games than it actually will.
The truth, from my perspective, is that they are going to really miss David Lee (rebounding and hustle/effort especially), and that they have a flawed roster run by a coach who can’t get them to play the way he wants them to play. They’ve got some redundancies at positions (or simply some mediocre options with flaws, so its a pick your poison type thing but in a bad way). It just reminds me so much of having Big Al as your centerpiece and trying to convince yourself that Randy Foye is really going to break this year, that Corey Brewer is going to average 16 ppg, that Bassy is a starting point and that Ryan Gomes is a real high level ‘glue’ guy (a Battier type in his influence). I’m sorry, but the hard truth is that it’s a 25 win roster full of players with, well, it’s not that they don’t have potential or talent, it’s more that they just don’t quite go together in a synergistic way and are in roles that aren’t quite right for them (either too many expectations or responsibilities that aren’t matched well to what they do, etc.)
I think (and I don’t mean this as a slight) that Knicks fans are in for a season of hurt this year because they’ll be very lucky to be in the conversation for the 8th seed in the East. Are they better than Toronto this year? Better than even Cleveland or Indy? I think D’Antoni’s going to kill this team eventually with his ego, and Knicks fans are already complaining about Amare’s lack of rebounding and defense (as if nobody knew that about him).
On the flip side, reading all of their posts and comments made me realize just how excited I am about our team. We’re getting no buzz, no props from any in the national media, no ‘mea culpas’ from those who doubted us. And you know what? I’m sorry for all those guys, because, holy shit, we have a team of guys who compete hard every minute and play together and for each other and appear to buying whole heartedly into their coaches’ schemes – and it’s working. “Fear the deer” is on, my friends. I mean, look at our roster:
- our PGs are rockin’ it. They’re pushing the pace, make great decisions and passes, playing good defense, and hitting open shots when they’re there (well, Ridnour is).
- our wings are exciting, can shoot and play defense, and are far and away collectively better than anything we’ve had on the perimeter in years. Martell is looking like a steal, Wes is looking great, Brewer’s defense is still pretty exciting even if his shot isn’t falling. Hell, Wayne and Lazar are both outstanding shooters who play with a ton of tenacity and heart even if they don’t get much burn. The best part is – all of these guys seem to fit their roles perfectly. Beasley’s still learning in his role, but really he’s the biggest question mark right now and even that’s not that big of a question mark (in terms of his role).
- our bigs are, in many ways, the heart of our team. Watching Love and Darko pass, watching Pek show some nimble low post moves and then wrestle rebounds away from the other team, watching Koufos and Tolliver play with great passion and energy – and watching all of these guys play with the interests of their teammates clearly in the forefront of their minds is absolutely awesome. Again, every one of them has a role and seems well suited to it.
I think this team is going to surprise a great many people. These guys like each other, they’re playing for each other and buying into Rambis’ ideas. They’re embracing their roles and seem well suited for their roles. Anything less than 30 wins this year is going to be a disappointment, and I for one believe they have an outside shot at 40 this year if they just keep doing what they’ve been doing (passing the ball on offense and hustling on defense).
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
by biggity2bit on Oct 7, 2010 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
And when other teams exploit our weaknesses in the regular season
and they will, this is a team that will learn from the blow outs. I can’t see Wes or Martell or Pek not hunkering down and studying game films after a bad game.
In previous years the worst thing was that our players didn’t seem to learn, and the team itself had to adjust and compensate when we didn’t match up well.
No autopsy, no foul.
didn't learn...or didn't care?
Neither Gomes nor Al struck me as the kind of guy who hated losing enough to put in the necessary effort to prevent it in the future.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Oct 7, 2010 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions
I was thinking earlier
that this team may be better than even the optimistic above us have thought. I didn’t post it, because it seemed a bit unhinged, but seeing your hope running wild prompted me to do the same.
If play during the regular season looks anything like the first two games of the preseason, then this team has a host of candidates for year-end awards.
Wes and Pek both look like they’ll be in the ROY conversation. We have five potential MIP candidates, because of their expanded roles: Beasley, Webster, Ridnour, Darko, and Love ALL will see bigger roles. Webster, Ridnour, and Beasley have already impressed the Wovles Faithful. Imagine what the reaction will be among the non-believers. Love looks like the player that we know he is, but what we know isn’t common knowledge yet around the league.
I guess what I’m saying is that the conversation could be very, very different in six months. All we have right now is some promising play and a legitimately fun roster, but if they pan out and keep playing to their potential, we’ve got nothing but sunshine in the forecast.
Next thing you know, they'll take my thoughts away.
One interesting note I saw in these games was consistency through out the game
They don’t give up…then hold strong later in the game. Also our Bench is all extensive purposes just as good as our starters which puts a lot of teams in this league at a disadvantage to us for about a third of the game.
I’m not pick 40 wins…I saying 30 might happen.
What I am saying is our margin of defeat is going to go down drastically this year. We are gonna have a lot of fun 4th quarters and solid entertaining ball through out.
by Timberwolf i.e. Albatross on Oct 7, 2010 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Preseason has my hopes way up
Wes and Martel are the great surprises for me, it looks like both are ready to play in this offense. I think the game I’m most looking forward to is the 11/2 game against Miami. While a win would have me going crazy, just competing and fighting the whole game would be such a huge departure from anything I’ve seen since KG left that I’ll be sold on this years version of the TWolves.
I won't be let down if they get creamed...
it’s 3 franchise players vs our Zero
by Timberwolf i.e. Albatross on Oct 7, 2010 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Our lack of a franchise player
Is the reason that Beasley (or someone else) needs to have the fro. The pistons had no franchise players, but they had a guy with a fro. If Beas doesn’t step up to the task I think Pek may be the guy we can count on.
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Oct 7, 2010 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Hoot!
Great perspective. I wonder if Love has considered a fro? Would he do that to show his leadership potential?
Or maybe get a skull tat?
Leadership potential = fro
I think the stat guys can work up a very nice chart showing a strong correlation between the too. Having a guy named love and a fro would ensure many 70s nights at the target center. The skull tattoo is a great point perhaps we don’t need a fro, but instead something to figuratively be a fro for example a skull tattoo. Wonderful point!
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Oct 10, 2010 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with you that for all intents and purposes our bench should be just as good as our starters. My concern about this stems from the flip side of that: for all intents and purposes our starters are no better than our bench. If we play 48 minutes of B- basketball, and the other team plays 36 minutes of B+ basketball and 12 minutes of C+ basketball, can we win? Sure. But if instead the other team plays 36 minutes of A+ to A- basketball and 12 minutes of C+ basketball, then we don’t really have a shot.
At least it beats playing 36 minutes of C+ basketball followed by 12 minutes of D- basketball like we put out there last year. It’s amazing we even won 15 games with the players we ran out there last season.
Sam Cassell for Marko Jaric? That's ridiculous! I would never have traded Sam Cassell for Marko Jaric.
- Sam Cassell on McHale's decisions while running the Timberwolves.
Notice he said Ridnour got stripped
Yes, our PG is a 7 footer! Or he was surprised by our Point Center offense.
What was Darko doing with the ball way out there by himself?
by Zev on Oct 7, 2010 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions
I noticed that too!
Mistook our tallest player for our shortest one. On the other hand, they’re both white…
If it wasn't for Jordan Farmar and that guy Kevin Love, I would've killed somebody!
Any ideas on who will be our 12?
I’m guessing that Jonny won’t be ready for the season, which leaves 1 spot open along with the 11 that played vs NY: Hart, Lazar for Koufos. Hart will probably be waived, so Lazar is sent to DLeague? I would have liked to see him get a few minutes with the second team to see what he can do. And it’s a bit puzzling why Koufos is getting DNP-CD’s in preseason as well.
Zgoda suggested Hart might be staying at least until Jonny is healthy
And I agree that Hayward will probably spend significant time in the DLeague
So my guess:
1 Love
2 Beasley
3 Johnson
4 Webster
5 Milicic
6 Ridnour
7 Pekovic
8 Brewer
9 Telfair
10 Ellington
12 Tolliver
Then we have an interesting dilemma. Hayward and Flynn obviously stay (and Flynn will be back on the active roster when he recovers), which leaves one spot for Koufos and Hart. If even that….a lot of teams want to carry just 14 players this year.
I don't think its obvious
that Hayward stays. Although Hayward may be the better player (completely up for debate) I think you lean towards keeping an extra big body on the roster and Hayward goes to the D-League. I also think there’s no chance that Hart makes the roster, especially since he’d just be a cost without any benefit to Glen Taylor.
Another note on Hart is that we have Ridnour starting and Telfair to back him up at the point. Plus it looks like Ellington can be penciled in for minutes at the PG spot and might even be ahead of Telfair in that regard
When you're rich you don't write checks...Straight Cash Homey!
By stay, I mean doesn't get cut
We can only have 12 active players on the roster anyway, so Hayward would be on the IR list, which for him means lots of DLeague time
(The "inactive List," technically.)
We’ve done away with the pretense of the various strains and aches that put players on “injured reserve” as of the last CBA. (Larry Coon: “The cynic will note that marginal NBA players seem to have a lot fewer back spasms nowadays.”)
D-League players automatically go on the inactive list.
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
Hart's a veteran journeyman who plays decent D at the PG spot.
Sort of guy I’d like to see around, tutoring Jonny on how to play on one whole end of the floor.
If the NBA thought at all sensibly about player development, Lazar Hayward would be a good candidate to get PT in the D-league. (Heck, on my franchise Wesley Johnson would by default be slotted there until he earned his way up, high pick or no. But that’s a different universe.)
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
Very good article. Agree with every point
Also, looks like Luke is having fun. I think it’s important for the team
to be confident enough in their mates that they can have fun on the court.
I think we’re going to have the chemistry for that kind of team. I hope we
can do the right thing with the cap space. We’re one or two players away from
being competitive in the playoffs
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."
Did anyone else see that Ryan Hollins had 14 rebounds
in his first preseason game with the Cavs? Did Hollins have 14 rebounds total all of last season?
With a city like Cleveland...
… and all of the say-it-ain’t-so, throw-us-a-bone, give-us-SOMETHING-to-believe-in-here vibes that Cavs fans are currently going through, I have to conclude that this fluke Hollins performance was perhaps the ultimate bitch slap from the basketball gods.
35:
The number of games, last season, in which Ryan Hollins had more fouls than rebounds.
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
I thought he played in more than 35 games
by midlife crisis on Oct 8, 2010 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions
The Bench
I honestly expect we’re going to see today’s +/- ratios a lot this year. I don’t think our starting 5 is up to par with a lot of the league just yet, but I also think that our bench (filled with young, talented players with something to prove) is going to outshine most opponents benches. For that reason alone we will be more competitive and in games than last year, where going to the bench was like spotting the other team points.
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