Wolves/Nugs Recap
by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 18, 2010 10:32 PM CST
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PrintIs it wrong to worry about what will happen to an NBA team without Darko Milicic? Is this a good or bad thing for the future of said franchise. I haven't really figured that one out yet, but the first thing I thought of at the start of the game was that the Wolves didn't have a chance without the big fella. This is probably not a correct opinion for me to have. One of the things we'll take a look at when the team gets close to the 1/2 way mark is the interplay between Kevin Love, Darko, and Michael Beasley. Darko provides some decent defense but the early returns on offense seem to indicate that he is a mind-blowing black hole of suck.
Tonight we'll go with running random thoughts posing as a game wrap below the fold.
First quarter:
- How many fouls does Kevin Love draw off of the ball? I think he had 3 or 4 in the last game and he drew one early against Melo tonight.
- George Karl is a fantastic coach but it is unbelievable to me that the Nuggs aren't spacing themselves out beyond the arc.
- Kosta Koufos' left handed jump hook is less robotic but equally effective as Darko's. They both can't seem to hit it.
- Michael Beasley's first charge seemed to be a make-up call from Denver's heart-breaking loss to the Spurs. I don't think I've seen a make-up call span both teams and days. PS: Manu drew a legit charge.
- I would not want Crunch to show up at my door with Princes Kay of the Milky Way and a box of Dominoes Pizza. That is somewhat horrifying.
- Why do Nuggets fans still root for Melo? He's pretty much ensured that they're getting nothing for the guy in a trade and he's made sweet verbal love to New York Knick fans.
- With Wes Johnson, Martell Webster, and Corey Brewer on the team, can someone please explain why Lazar Hayward got first quarter minutes?
- The Nuggs are beginning to realize the Wolves are unaware of this thing called a "three point line". Al Harrington looks to be tonight's participant in the Wolves Three Point Camp.
- Somehow getting a $40 ticket for $30 to the Wiz game just doesn't seem like that big of a deal.
- When Martel Webster passed up an open look beyond the line to pass it to the awful shooting Hayward, J-Pete commented that "it was unselfish basketball, I'm not sure it was smart basketball." On the next trip down the court J-Pete noted that Kevin Love needs to expand his defensive game. J-Pete is on a roll. He later counters Hanny's comment about it "being hard not to like" Flynn with "I don't care about the smile stuff, I want guys who can play." J-Pete is doing the Lord's work tonight.
- Of course, seeing that I wondered aloud why Hayward was in the game, he seems to be playing decent ball.
- It really is amazing how many times Jonny Flynn loses track of his man on defense.
- Denver fans have zero room to complain about any call against Melo. The guy either stiff arms or pulls his man away on every offensive possession in the post. It's more than blatant.
- Flynn seems to be the type of player who has played on the ball his entire life and has no clue what to do when it's not in his hands. Even on defense, he gravitates towards the ball. On offense he cuts towards the hoop or to the ball handler when he should focus on spacing. Anyone who looked at him before the draft and thought he could play off the ball is...well, hey, look at that pretty kitten!
3rd quarter:
- Kosta Koufos had a 5 hour energy at the 1/2.
- Beasley did not come to play tonight. Really an embarrassing effort. He gets things rolling this quarter with a long contested 3. He misses. Love gets hacked on the rebound attempt, hustles back, and the Nuggs hit his man (Shelden Williams) in transition for the open shot. This will go down as "bad defense" on Love's part, but he was running to an obviously open spot on defense and he busted his ass on offense. He was put in this position because of a ridiculous shot. He's not the best defender, but he's the smartest guy on the team and his defensive struggles are widely overblown when considering his teammates.
- It sure is nice to see George Karl on the sidelines. It was really nice to see an early 3rd quarter interview ith him.
- If there ever was a game to show the net importance of avoiding large chunks of minutes given out to subpar role players, tonight is the night.
- This game has gotten out of hand. More important issues: Do I start Joe Webb or Ochocinco at the 3rd wideout/TE tomorrow in my Fantasy Football semifinal game? It's a 50/50 league and my other wideouts are Miles Austin and Gregg Jennings. I need something special to happen in order to win.
- I remember when Melo dropped 33 points on the Wolves in the 3rd quarter a year or so ago. I was driving to New Ulm listening to the Wolves in a snow storm. I don't recommend the experience to anyone.
- Love is an amazing, amazing basketball player. He's far and away the best reason to watch this team.
- The best thing about the games on Channel 29 is no Karl Malone fat shoes commercials.
- Love and Beas have kicked it into full gear. Wolves still down by 12. Is this a recipe game wrap? I've gone too far to throw it all away by looking through cook books. I'll stick with it. Although.....Zombie Red Dead Redemption does sound kind of good right about now.
- Corey Brewer, despite some questionable long shots, has been playing good ball for 3-4 games now. He's been dynamite in transition and he's even made some good passes.
- Minnesota Duluth pulled out the victory.
- Winona State and MSU are going at it. Minnesota needs a 2nd D-I team. MSU or WSU should be D-I. WSU just did this. For those of you who don't know, the best college ball in Minny has been played at MSU and WSU for the past 3-5 years.
- The Wolves have made their way back into the game. Can they keep it up? They're only down by 7. I've moved away from youtubes and google searches for WSU/MSU and I'm back focused on the game. What will happen? Love hits his 5th 3 pointer, that's what happens.
- It's really fitting that the Wolves were done in by a JR Smith 3 pointer. It was in transition and it wasn't the result of a systemic lack of regard for defending 3s, yet it was fitting. The Wolves have now allowed 10 3s or more 12 times this year. This is systemic.
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New Ulm?
My uncle lives in Winthrop and works at The Sausage Shop in New Ulm.
Haven’t been back there in ages.
SBNation Minnesota - For the greatest sports fans in the world.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on Dec 18, 2010 10:41 PM CST reply actions
if you go to winthrop
you need to stop and have a slice of pie from the pie lady of 2inthrop. one of the state’s great treats.
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
www.canishoopus.com
lyle's cafe is where the pie lady's legacy lives
and the pie is amazing.
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
www.canishoopus.com
Oh yeah
Been there many, many times. . .my grandmother (who also lived in Winthrop) passed back in 2005. . .but I made the trip to Winthrop with my family quite frequently when I was younger.
SBNation Minnesota - For the greatest sports fans in the world.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on Dec 18, 2010 10:48 PM CST up reply actions
Is your uncles name Scott?
My good friend owns the shop,best brats in mn.
by bringthesun on Dec 19, 2010 8:27 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Stupid mobile,now it shows it right.
by bringthesun on Dec 19, 2010 8:30 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Yep, that's my uncle!
And yes, The Sausage Shop is awesome. (-:
SBNation Minnesota - For the greatest sports fans in the world.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on Dec 19, 2010 9:30 PM CST up reply actions
Wells here.
south central conferece baby. (Good old days when Wells and New Ulm were in the same conference.)
There's a really good BBQ joint right up 22
in Mapleton….Token BBQ. Try it out if you haven’t already.
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
www.canishoopus.com
I do think this team misses Darko in a big way
The offense is built to be facilitated by him and the defense obviously isn’t there without him. Whether this is good or bad is open to debate, but it is what it is. Darko is key
I think we felt it a lot more last night because LMA was just too tall and long to deal with, but he would have helped a lot tonight too, especially in the first half
Seconded
Darko Milicic should no longer be considered a walking punchline. That stuff is old.
His play has been one key to any “good” stretches of ball we have played in the past month. He is a huge asset to this team, such as it is.
Thirded
Darko is just what this team needs….he demands attention…his passing is good….he’s beginning to find a scoring touch….he blocks shots….he’s 7ft tall.
Tolliver is a huge miss.
by Kevin Farmer on Dec 19, 2010 5:16 AM CST up reply actions
Fourthed with some stats
In the last months, Darko’s per-36 offensive numbers are at 18 points, 3 assists, 3.3 turnovers on .507 FG% and .655 FT%.
None of that is great, but I don’t see how it could be fairly called a mind-blowing black hole of suck. Most centers are more efficient, but most also fall short of 18 points/36 minutes because they aren’t creating any offense for themselves. A Darko post isolation hasn’t reached the rarefied Gasol/Jefferson/Howard/Duncan level of being an acceptably efficient source of offense in its own right, but it’s at least enough of a threat that defenses have to give extra attention to it, which in turn opens up things for others.
If it wasn't for Jordan Farmar and that guy Kevin Love, I would've killed somebody!
Girl Talk is like cocaine for the ears
although this song is a bit more under control.
Dear Alex Gordon:
I still think you will be awesome, but for the love of God, please stop getting hurt.
Sincerely,
RF
It's always difficult to explain them to new ppl
When they ask what the mashups are like…. I usually resort to “just listen to it, it’ll be worth it”
i still can't get enough of when he mixed
elton john’s tiny dancer with biggy smalls.
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
www.canishoopus.com
+100000
For those that are interested:
it sounds corny..
…but i love moments of pure musical joy and i couldn’t get enough of that when i first heard it. my wife got sick of me playing it over and over. it’s really amazing.
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
www.canishoopus.com
Same.
That mix is amazing for so many reasons. I’d really like to go to one of his shows just to experience it.
If yall are interested....
there is a really large underground hip-hop scene in the Twin Cities. Acts like Atmosphere and my personal favorite, Brother Ali, call Minneapolis/St Paul home.
www.unleashkevinlove.com
www.i<3Darko.com
Very familiar with RSE
I’ve been to Soundset the last few years…. we’re very lucky to have a scene like we do.
I guarantee
You’re preaching to the choir, here. As far as local music goes (even though I’m not from the cities), I was hooked on Rogue Valley for a good while this summer. They played a music festival I volunteered at, and the singer gave me their CD for working the merch table. Good folksy/pop/rock kinda stuff.
I think he's playing First Ave in March/April.
Check out Humdinger TV on YouTube.
http://twitter.com/HumdingerTV
also
really solid ty segall pick. rock n roll lives!
by juliancasablancas on Dec 18, 2010 10:53 PM CST up reply actions
Still completely baffled
and upset that the Wolves didn’t foul. There was a game earlier this season where the team didn’t know whether to foul or not, too.
Rambis is so bad.
i think this is the 3rd game
where they’ve fubar’d a late game to
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
www.canishoopus.com
How many more until Rambis gets fired?
6-22 now. It’s looking like they’re going to end up behind last season’s harrowing 7-24 pace. I think this season’s team is better, but they’re really poorly coached.
Do you go for a win - or a tie and overtime? Another view -------
It was a 2 point lead, 113-115. If you foul in the back-court, the guy gets 2 shots – If Ty Lawson just makes 1 shot, it’s a three point lead – you have to run the clock down to 2 seconds and get a ‘for sure’ 3 for just a tie, then you go into overtime. First of all, T’Wolves ballhandlers are notorious for losing the ball under pressure, second of all, you either lose the game by missing a 3, or by losing in overtime, which is a lock, since MN expended so much energy coming back – and the only guy you counted on in the end (last 7 points in regulation) was Kevin Love. If nobody else steps up, they just key on him. OTOH, if Lawson cans both freethrows – Game Over.
"Fighting contraction since 1989"
In other words - I don't think fouling was a no-brainer decision.
Its implications could have been just as bad – or worse. If we get the rebound
the TO is automatic. Advance to front court for a shot. 2 plus seconds is plenty
of time to get one off. If it’s a 3, we win.
"Fighting contraction since 1989"
I think the decision came down to what got them there.
They clawed their way back into that game by goading the Nuggets into some bad shots and getting the rebounds. It makes some sense for Rambis to stick with that approach, even though the Nuggets had been shooting free throws poorly in the fourth quarter – I would point out though that some of their misses at the free throw line may have been simply due to lack of focus, after all they were up by a fair margin against a team with one of the worst records in the league and a well documented tendency to collapse at the end of games.
My mother was a lovely woman, rest her soul, but she never saw the irony in calling me a "son of a bitch."
- Jack Nicholson
How the f does Kevin Love score 41 and we still lose?
Ty Lawson carved up our defense at every turn, and our point guards cannot even penetrate.
We lost because of turnovers and 3-pointers.
Plain and simple. We didn’t take care of the ball enough – a staple in our diet of why we lose games. We didn’t hit our 3-pointers, with the obvious exception of Kevin Love. And we didn’t defend the perimeter – another staple in our diet of why we lose games. These are recurring problems, not isolated incidents. They are also the kinds of problems that are to be expected by a young and inexperienced team – except for maybe the perimeter defense which is more likely a Rambis-created problem than an youth-created problem (but it could be a problem created by Rambis’ inexperience as a head coach, so …).
My mother was a lovely woman, rest her soul, but she never saw the irony in calling me a "son of a bitch."
- Jack Nicholson
Is that true?
Were we really at 7 – 24 last year? That seems… unlikely, given that we started 1-15 and only finished with 15 total wins on the season.
Never mind, I just looked it up. After the 1 – 15 start, we did indeed go 6 – 9. Between the 1 – 15 start and the 2 – 29 finish, we were a decidedly mediocre (used here in the complementary sense) 12 – 23. That’s a 28 win pace when stretched out to a full year. A lot of us thought 28 wins would be a fair expectation for this year’s team. If they want to, at the very least, not fall behind the pace of last year’s squad, they’ll need to start living up to that modest projection.
If it wasn't for Jordan Farmar and that guy Kevin Love, I would've killed somebody!
Some guy
took him the first round of my fantasy league.
Great pick.
Nice...
I don’t do fantasy bball. Where did most sites have him going?
He's ranked #12 overall.
Using standard league sizes and 8 category scoring.
If it wasn't for Jordan Farmar and that guy Kevin Love, I would've killed somebody!
its on coach
he must have told them not to foul when the clock was stopped to review Webster’s shot
I missed the game for a birthday party
But looking at the play-by-play, it has Webster’s shot down as a 24 foot jumper. Where on the court does one stand to make a 24 foot jumper only count for 2 points?
If it wasn't for Jordan Farmar and that guy Kevin Love, I would've killed somebody!
They reviewed it
He had a foot on the line
by Jose Cordoba on Dec 19, 2010 8:03 AM CST up reply actions
Oh, I'm sorry.
The correct answer is a three point jumper shot into your opponent’s basket.
But yeah, I figured that was what happened. It’s just weird that the play-by-play wouldn’t round all two point jumpers down to 23 feet or less.
If it wasn't for Jordan Farmar and that guy Kevin Love, I would've killed somebody!
The T.O. stuff is really bizzare
I think it’s just another example of Rambis not knowing how to add (see his stance on the 3 pointer). If everything breaks his way, he’ll need Anthony to miss a shot (60%), the Wolves to grab the rebound (75%), call a timeout right away and make a contested inbounds play. What are the odds on that last shot? Send the guy to the line and take advantage of the #1 thing you can control by fouling: the clock.
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
www.canishoopus.com
Respectfully disagree.
If you can get a stop, or force them to shoot a bad shot early, we have a better chance with them only 2 up, instead of 3 or 4. Ty Lawson had to drain at least one of those foul shots.
Carmelo was just damn good at getting it down to 3.7 seconds — still enough, if we
get the rebound & auto time out (which we still had).
If we went the other way, with them up 3 & we get lucky and get a 3, how do you think
we’d have fared in O.T. after that huge come-back? not well, in my opinion, with only
one guy unafraid to play, and already gassed.
"Fighting contraction since 1989"
They did get a stop
And almost everything broke Rambis’ way and they still didn’t have enough time . Their best chance was making the clock stop on Denver’s possession and then using that time to allow their own offense a chance to score within a more normal situation.
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
www.canishoopus.com
I'm talking about a stop in the last 27.3
If you can get maybe – six seconds on an early release (or a steal), you can win,
not just tie. I go for the win in regulation.
"Fighting contraction since 1989"
I've seen it work (and not work) both ways.
but … if you foul in the backcourt, the guy gets 2 shots. They’re up either 3 or 4.
You can tie at 3, you’re going to lose for sure at 4. I’d rather play hard defense
and try to get the ball or a quick shot. It didn’t work. Nether scenario works
very often. You – might – get a shot at 20 sec. have you seen our ball-handlers
fold under pressure? You either lose it or get a bad shot. It’s all equal when I
look at the guys we entrust th ball to.
But like I say, I’ve seen it work both ways. I’ve seen Jackson do the very thing
that Rambis did in short seconds and steal a win. But with a team probably
at least with 3 points on us, all I see is a possible tie on a lucky shot. A sure
shot would only net you 2.
"Fighting contraction since 1989"
Darko, mind-blowing black hole of a suck on O?
Wow. He’s not Kareem by any shot but a little harsh. He was that bad early on. But, I’ll take him on O over Pek and Koufos any day. He has been scoring and he passes well.
watchin portland/gs game right now w por announcers
“wolves lose in 3 OT to nuggets”
luke babbitt is awful. they were showing him finishing on the break…for the idaho stampede.
Some bad coaching late.
You have to foul and extend game. Nuggets were missing FT. Love, Martell, Beas, Wes, could all hit a 3.
DUMB! What a waste of a comeback. A real victory lost and a moral(e) victory lost. Wolves have to overcome youth, injuries, and their coach.
Ty Lawson has an insane first step.
And how many uncontested hoops did Denver have?
Jonny on O, not bad
Jonny on D, hmmm… He can’t stop people. He’s quick but he can’t stay in front of guys. Needs to learn D to be a starter (on another team). His O = Wolves starter
by ChicagoViking on Dec 18, 2010 11:04 PM CST up reply actions
I think SnP summerized Jonny's D pretty well
Horrible off the Ball…Like Beasley bad times 2
by Timberwolf i.e. Albatross on Dec 19, 2010 10:38 AM CST up reply actions
Few Thoughts
1. I’m not sure if Rambis is the right coach for the long-term. I will admit I have seen nothing of late that would lead me to advocate for his dismissal. This team is playing better and losing a good number of close games. This is inspite of injuries, youth, and lack of cohesion from playing together.
2. Kevin Love is a Top 20 Player in the NBA.
3. Jonny Flynn’s D combined with Kosta and K.Love inside is going to lead to some serious defensive issues.
4. The Wing Play on this team is miles ahead of where it was last season (Brewer, Ellington, Pavs, Wilkins, Gomes) vs (Beasley, Brewer, Wes, Martell).
5. If Rubio comes over and is an average NBA Starter. Combined with another Top 10 pick. This team will Win 40 games next year.
I think we need more from our wings
including Beasley. I agree there is a lot more potential on the wings, but I still consider it a weak link.
by Rascal Flatts on Dec 19, 2010 12:53 PM CST up reply actions
I would define Wing play
as Adequate. The same as Darko as starting C. In fairness to Kahn and Rambis it was previously horrific.
by Jose Cordoba on Dec 19, 2010 1:05 PM CST up reply actions
Adequate wing and center play...
and top-20 in the NBA power forward play? Point guards must be absolutely killing the team, if you’re right.
PG Play is the Difference
Between 6 Wins and 11-12 Wins.
by Jose Cordoba on Dec 19, 2010 1:14 PM CST up reply actions
the eyeball test tells me
… you have a gift for understatement
by midlife crisis on Dec 19, 2010 1:14 PM CST up reply actions
There are also issues
With Back-Up Bigs that are probably worth another 1-2. If Ricky Rubio was an adequate NBA Starting PG I think this could be a 40 win team next year.
by Jose Cordoba on Dec 19, 2010 1:16 PM CST up reply actions
I still think wings are a huge part of the problem
None of these guys are capable of putting the ball on the floor and making plays for others, and that includes Beasley. It puts a ton of pressure on our PGs to make something out of nothing, which they either don’t have the talent to do (Ridnour and Telfair) or are incapable of making a smart decision in those contexts (Flynn).
I agree a virtuoso like Paul or Nash could probably do OK without wings that can put the ball on the deck, but it’s hard to expect that from a guy like Ridnour. Hopefully Rubio is that guy. If not, we need to look at getting a wing with some handles and playmaking abilities.
by Rascal Flatts on Dec 19, 2010 1:27 PM CST up reply actions
Beasley's capable
He just doesn’t do it. Yet.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Dec 19, 2010 1:29 PM CST up reply actions
This...
Our point guards would look adequate, or much closer to it, next to Kobe/LeBron/Roy types of wings. Our wings would look adequate next to a Nash/Deron/Paul. But none of them are elite, and the collective, adequate-level of everybody makes for a bad NBA team. The number one concern heading into this season was that we didn’t have a single player that can draw extra defenders. There have been a few games where Darko has done this and we’ve played well. Same for Beasley. None of that has been consistent. Love, as great as he is at rebounding and knocking down open shots, doesn’t draw any extra defensive attention. The struggles of this team cannot be pinned on the point guard position, exclusively.
I wouldn't say I described Wings as a team strength
I stated the belief that PG Play and depth up-front are what is keeping us from breaking through to a .500 team. The Wing play is stronger than last year although not at the level without better ball-handling of a Championship Caliber team.
by Jose Cordoba on Dec 19, 2010 8:39 PM CST up reply actions
SNP darko comment
Dude I’m usually behind your opinion and analysis, but that type ish is just stupid of what you said about Darko…
Everyone on this site watches the same games u watch. Yeah darko was horrific to start the season, but he has shownthat when he’s confident that he looks like a near all star center..
He’s improving.
And love is obviously an all star talent and you have made comments about him being a 6th man… And you continually put certain players of ours down… Brewer you praise but the guy can’t hit a shot. But darko is a black hole? What gives…
Serious, don’t become a espn analyst and start talking bad about darko, even they have come around and you have went south… Go back to your sorry a** cooking recipes if this continues.. Give this team some time, we are trillions times better than we were last year
by HKayden on Dec 18, 2010 11:18 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I'm chalking the Darko comment up to frustration
This game could (should) have ended better thanks to coach. It’s hard to see all the Ls despite the better team. But, the Darko comments are about a month past correct.
Team still lacks a starter-quality PG and depth at C, true. I’m pretty good at 2-4. Rubio + big man in the draft.
by ChicagoViking on Dec 18, 2010 11:26 PM CST up reply actions
To Be Fair
Darko’s got an Offensive Rating of 93 and lousy FG% and TS%. He’s clearly been better of late- but he’s nowhere near an All-Star Center. I’m actually of the opinion that Darko is an adequate starting 5.
I never remember SNP calling Love a Sixth-Man.
on the other hand
he has just scored his career high (25) and recently blocked 7 shots. He has also outplayed Gasol, Duncan and Stoudemire (before getting hurt, after which Amare dominated ).
I have a Darko jersey. He's my favorite player, but
he has been offensively terrible this year. So many terrible turnovers. Poor shooting to start. So-so shooting most games since he’s turned the corner. Still shooting only 60% from the line when he gets there.
He has played like an all-star some nights and a bum some nights on the offensive end. I think he was a great pick up. He’s our only real rim protector. I think he’s a net positive for the team, but I don’t have a hard time with someone saying he’s been bad offensively and it bears looking into how this affects the team once we have a half season of data. The “mind-blowing black hole of suck” is stronger than I’d agree with, but I do think we should revisit the point of how this team functions with and without Darko at the half way point. I’m optimistic he’d end up a net positive, but he’s TOs and poor shooting do not make it an absolute lock.
Agreed
I think we rely on him too much. He should get a few token looks at the bucket to start games and establish himself, but in general he should be the 4th or 5th scoring option on the floor. His efficiency is horrible for a Center. The same goes for Brewer off the bench. One of our biggest problems on offense is the fact that Darko and Brewer get too many shots (Each are sporting a TS% of 46%. That is just terrible). We need Wes and Martell to be much more aggressive in looking for their shots and taking large volumes of 3’s.
by Rascal Flatts on Dec 19, 2010 1:00 PM CST up reply actions
The post-game wrap of the Golden State game focused on this exact thing.
Match-ups. Ultimately, an opponent is going to play defense in a way that results in shots for the player(s) on the other team that have the least likelihood of going in. When Corey Brewer is on the floor that means the opponents are going to work to ensure that he is the only one with an open shot. When we feed the ball to Darko in the post and make the cuts called for by the triangle offense, they’re going to stick with the cutters and make it so that Darko’s post moves (or lack thereof) are what determine whether or not we get points on that possession. At the beginning of the season that was almost always a winning strategy for our opponents. As the season has progressed it has become increasingly dangerous to do so, but we still end up losing because we turn the ball over enough to give away a lot of the games that we could be winning.
My mother was a lovely woman, rest her soul, but she never saw the irony in calling me a "son of a bitch."
- Jack Nicholson
Yet somehow
defensive oriented centers like Dampier, Chandler, and Wallace have taken far less shots per game (relative to Darko this season) despite being offensively limited and the same thing goes for defensive oriented wings like Bruce Bowen and Shane Battier compared to Corey Brewer. Why weren’t defenses doing everything possible to make sure Ben Wallace got touches and had to make shots?
We could very easily run an offense that limited Corey and Darko’s touches, but we don’t. Rambis lives in this theoretical world of basketball where an open shot is a good shot, regardless of who the person is taking it.
by Rascal Flatts on Dec 19, 2010 7:03 PM CST up reply actions
There's kind of an obvious answer to that
We don’t have any good ball handlers. It makes it easy to narrow our choices when they never have to worry about the ballhandler finding open space
by midlife crisis on Dec 19, 2010 7:35 PM CST up reply actions
So are you saying he's an all star?
Those 3 all stars you listed above have averaged for a season what would be a career game for Darko.
I think we’ve got a long way to go with Darko.
I'm ready to be swayed Wesley Johnson!!
I'm not saying he's an all-star
What I’m saying is that his play kept us in games against those teams where, otherwise, it would have been just another blowout. Since some people say how terrible he is, could we have just picked up some other terrible center and have him outplay Duncan, for example…???
It's not just that
http://basketballvalue.com/teamplayers.php?year=2010-2011&team=MIN
Both adjusted and unadjusted, the team plays better on both ends of the court when he’s not out there. There’s still a bit of noise from the early season disaster in there, but even broken down by month (which we’ll take a look at near the 1/2 way mark), that trend holds true.
It becomes even more apparent when you look at 2 and 3 man pairings. Love is the team’s best player. Add Darko to the mix and his numbers go south.
I think that this is yet another example of the good individual story not playing itself out in a team context. Yes, he looks better but the team certainly isn’t playing better because of him. The Wolves score 104.5 points/100 possessions. Darko is at 93. That gaping hole isn’t enough to make up the + 3 points he brings on the defensive end of the court. He’s had some good games but they haven’t exactly played themselves out as a bunch of victories.
Now, I suppose the argument against this is “give it time” and “they just need to figure out how to play with one another”. But ask yourself what is more likely: That this collection of players will coalesce around another extended round of abnormal play from a guy who has shown himself time and time again to be a very specific type of player or that betting on a guy with that sort of track record and fragile personality with a team running a silly offensive system won’t pan out?
I like the Darko story. A lot. I think nothing would be more awesome for this franchise than the ultimate reclamation project working out. It’s not happening right now. How ironic is it that they let Jefferson go because they thought his style of play wouldn’t fit with Rambis’ system yet they do nothing but dump it down to Darko whenever he’s in there. And no, the passing doesn’t make up for anything with that OE rating.
I’ll wait till the middle of the season for some of the early season noise to play itself out (we may even have to wait longer if his current injury is serious) but the early returns are not good in terms of him being able to affect this team in a positive light.
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
www.canishoopus.com
Not sure how you reconcile these two statements
Both adjusted and unadjusted, the team plays better on both ends of the court when he’s not out there
That gaping hole isn’t enough to make up the + 3 points he brings on the defensive end of the court.
If he improves our defense, we don’t play better on both ends of the court with him out.
+/- is notoriously flukey. Using it to evaluate a player whose first 3 weeks of data are clearly not representative of his performance in the 5 weeks since then is rather irresponsible. You’re quoting stats based on an 8 week sample size, already on the low end for +/-, especially adjusted +/-, and close to 40% of the that sample is bad data. Given these circumstances, forgive me if I’m not swayed by even a strong statement by the numbers. My eyes tell me Darko has been a net positive for a month now. I want to see if that bares out in the numbers as the sample size increases.
If it wasn't for Jordan Farmar and that guy Kevin Love, I would've killed somebody!
I reconcile it
By clearly stating up top that he’s a mind blowing hole of suck on offense, a point that I think has been lost somewhere in this thread. Also, the offensive/defensive statements themselves are not in opposition to one another. The OE/DE numbers are how many points a player scores/100 possessions and how many points a team scores/100 possessions. Darko is not out there for all of the Wolves’ possessions. Therefore, his comparison of DE to the team’s DE gains the benefit of the team performing at a different (often higher) level/100 possessions while he’s not on the court. There is a lot of noise in there (including Darko’s +41 in a single game), but the trend seems to be that he is a terrible, terrible offensive player.
I’m not sure we disagree with anything else. I’m going to wait for a larger sample size but the early returns are not good. Not good at all. My eyes tell me he’s a better individual player than this but it’s just not playing itself out with the team’s success.
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
www.canishoopus.com
whoops
they should all read oe/de instead of just de. the point is that on/off numbers at basketball value can give a different take on a simple differential between oe/des of players and their team.
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
www.canishoopus.com
You lost me a bit.
Does the team give up more or fewer points/100 possessions with Darko on the court? Establishing that he’s a net negative, is he a net negative because he makes us worse on offense and and worse on defense, which is your assertion in the first quote, or because the rate at which he improves our defense is greatly outstripped by the rate at which he worsens our offense, which is what I assumed you were trying to say in your (strangely worded) second quote.
If it wasn't for Jordan Farmar and that guy Kevin Love, I would've killed somebody!
His defensive abilities...
….are clearly outstripped by his awful offense. That one.
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
www.canishoopus.com
This is a perfect example of needing to wait for coffee
before typing. I’ve confused myself.
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
www.canishoopus.com
How is this equation clear?
Wasn’t it consensus here at CH at the beginning of the season that we would be jumping up and down if Darko provided 25 mpg of halfway competent play at center? Didn’t we say we hoped for little more than solid D and hit your open shots on offense so that your man can’t double off of you?
What is it that we expect from Darko? The goalposts seem to be moving.
goalposts?
this team has 6 wins. their offense is incompetent. their defense is worse. i guess i just don’t get it sometimes.
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 19, 2010 8:45 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
No offense, SNP
but the W/L is probably not the best measurement when trying to assess a specific player’s (lack of) improvement, especially on a young, bad team.
Again, do your eyeballs tell you that Darko is a black hole of suck on O and that the team is better off on D without him? Just curious.
i don't even know what to say at this point
as you’re obviously reading what you want to read.
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
www.canishoopus.com
Your posts tend to be voluminous
and I am certainly making a good faith effort to engage in civil disagreement.
Not sure what it is that you’re wishing I read more carefully. Did you already write about your “eyeball test”? Whatever it is, I obviously missed it.
Yes, the goalposts
What did we expect from Darko?
SnP's +/- stats are Darko relative to his teammates.
We have reasonable expectations for Darko relative to the rest of the league; he doesn’t need to be an All-Star. But as far as the team is concerned, he shouldn’t be a net negative. The player you described wouldn’t be, but Darko might be. If playing him makes the team worse than it would be with Love or Tolliver at center, that’s bad.
If it wasn't for Jordan Farmar and that guy Kevin Love, I would've killed somebody!
Sorry, I'm an "eyeball" guy. Is "net negative" a function of +/- ?
Because, if so, you have won the argument of advanced stats. The numbers say Darko still sucks. Darko’s historically horrendous start is a big hole from which to dig out of.
But when you assess Darko's play
on the basis of eyeballs, what have we seen from Darko his last 15-20 healthy games? Is he still a player you would describe as a “net negative”? I don’t see it.
Here's the thing:
even though Darko may be putting up decent individual numbers on the offensive end and look fairly good doing so, it may be that the extra shots he is taking and the ball dominance he is displaying are taking away better shots from other players. I don’t necessarily think this is the case, but it definitely could be.
My mother was a lovely woman, rest her soul, but she never saw the irony in calling me a "son of a bitch."
- Jack Nicholson
What are the "extra" shots?
You definitely get worried if you think that one player’s ball dominance hurts the overall flow of offense. I don’t have any such worries with Darko in the last month or so.
If Darko puts up 17 shots
when matched up against Amare Stoudemire, I don’t think anybody is going to bat an eye because his match-up is more favorable than other match-ups, take Beasley against Wilson Chandler for instance. But at the same time, if Darko is putting up 17 shots against Dwight Howard instead of letting Beasley take advantage of having the much smaller Jason Richardson guarding him, then something is wrong – even if Darko hits 9 of those 17 shots. It’s a game of match-ups and Darko has been good enough over the last month or so for the team and its fans to recognize that there will be times when Darko’s match-up is the most favorable for us. But we also need to recognize that most of the time our most favorable match-up will be elsewhere. Pretty much the only player on our roster that I look at and say that he never has a favorable match-up on the offensive end is Corey Brewer – the guy has no handle and his jump-shot is one of the ugliest in the league (even though it has improved a lot over the last year).
My mother was a lovely woman, rest her soul, but she never saw the irony in calling me a "son of a bitch."
- Jack Nicholson
if instead of his jumpshot
… he shoots his crazy full speed running hook, he’ll be as right as rain
by midlife crisis on Dec 19, 2010 7:36 PM CST up reply actions
I agree with most of that
except for this
But we also need to recognize that most of the time our most favorable match-up will be elsewhere.
I think that Darko vs. center matchup may often prove to be the biggest mismatch we can find on the floor on a given night. However, this statement begs the question, as we are still trying to assess which Darko we have.
Right now, I want Darko taking shots away from guys like Ridnour and Brewer. I feel that Beasley and Love are getting their shots most games. The guy who many of us want to get more shots is Wes, and that is kind of on him at this point. So again, I don’t feel that Darko is overly ball dominant at this point (eyeball observation.)
Another distinction is this: for Darko, touches do not need to equal shots. The hope is that the offense can run through him often without him having to take all of the shots. I don’t want to see him trying to take over the game against D12 or against a double team. I do want to see him passing to guys cutting to the hoop (which doesn’t happen often enough- not Darko’s bad).
why isn’t it Darkos bad?? He has to be willing to pass and it sounds like he isn’t. Are the cutters doing their job?
Timberwolves - NBA champs 2013!
(used with permission - Wolf in MO)
by frankenhoops on Dec 20, 2010 3:00 PM CST up reply actions
If Darko (or anybody) fails to find a man cutting to the hoop
it’s his bad. My point was- if nobody is cutting to the hoop (as is often the case with Wolves offense) it isn’t Darko’s fault. The Wolves are near the top of the league in standing around in half court sets.
Another eyeball observation: Darko is a better-than-average passer. And at times, he makes passes that almost nobody else makes.
He has to be willing to pass and it sounds like he isn’t.
Isn’t willing? Where does this come from?
I agree
Most people just wanted a servicable center. He’s providing that and then some. We do seem to be changing what was expected.
When Darko is “on”…this team is at its best. When we’ve moved the offense through Darko..it has opened up things a ton. I’ve been at games where Darko gets rolling and the wolves cant be stopped. Its been fun.
Darko is the inverse of Al Jefferson (*overall* this season)
I think when rim-protectors are involved, people sometimes forget that you have to play on both sides of the ball to be a net positive.
Lately, I think Darko has been a net positive because he’s been scoring a lot more efficiently. But overall on the season, he’s shooting with the efficiency of Corey Brewer (identical .462 TS percentages) and turning the ball over at the rate of Luke Ridnour (roughly 18% TO rate). Sorry, but in a long season, that kind of ineptitude on offense won’t be overcome with anything less than earth-shattering D. Bottom line is, just like Al Jefferson gives up what he gets, Darko gives back what he stops (by missing shots and turning the ball over).
The bright side is that Darko’s overall efficiency numbers have been dragged down due to his horrific start. If he can continue to score more efficiently, he’s a different (more valuable) player. It would also help if he did a better job of taking care of the ball.
by WolvesFan03 on Dec 19, 2010 10:59 AM CST up reply actions
We sure could hav used some "rim protection" the last two games.
It was critical to winning in both games, IMHO.
"Fighting contraction since 1989"
If Darko is the equivalent of Al Jefferson, but in the inverse
Well, let’s go to the salary board. Al: $14 million? Darko: $5 million?
They say it's always darkest just before dawn and man, was it dark last year.
He's not literally equivalent
Calling him the inverse of Al Jefferson was just to illustrate the principle that both sides of the ball matter—they both contribute to a player’s overall worth. People seem to forget this when talking about defensively-oriented players because a good defender is perceived to be a rarer commodity. Yet everybody seems to acknowledge the impact defense has on limiting Al’s value.
Burning/eating through possessions with poor efficiency and turnovers, especially at the rate somebody like Darko has done overall this season, can and does cancel out gains on the defensive side of the ball. Overall on this season, that seems to have been the case with Darko (for a rough proxy, he’s accumulated negative .5 win shares on offense, and positive .6 win shares on defense—basically making him a net 0 overall). But like I said, if he can continue to score more efficiently, he’ll gradually increase his positive impact on the team this season.
I'm obviously taking this from the eyeball perspective, not from advanced stats
But I think that this statement
I think nothing would be more awesome for this franchise than the ultimate reclamation project working out. It’s not happening right now
is quite backwards. “Right now” (before Darko went down) is exactly when it was showing evidence of working- his last 15 healthy games or so. My eyeballs tell me that Darko did these things fairly consistently: block and alter a great number of shots on D. Draw attention (incl. double teams) on O, make some very impressive passes and hit some of his shots.
It becomes even more apparent when you look at 2 and 3 man pairings. Love is the team’s best player. Add Darko to the mix and his numbers go south.
This is where I think that advanced stats can get in the way. Of course another productive player’s stats would go down when Darko is in the game. I can live with Love getting less touches and the offense going through Darko. Scratch that. I want to see it. If Love going off for fantasy league numbers like last night was supposedly the measure of effectiveness for the team, then it would be inconvenient to note that… well, we lost. And my eyeballs tell me we gave up more than a dozen uncontested layups/dunks at the rim (not even talking about fast break points.)
How ironic is it that they let Jefferson go because they thought his style of play wouldn’t fit with Rambis’ system yet they do nothing but dump it down to Darko whenever he’s in there.
Why is this ironic? Big Al was a black hole and, to some extent, we were able to anticipate the outcome of an entry pass to him. Many would assert that there was no evidence of him making teammates better on Offense. What happens when Darko gets the ball? He has shown a very adept ability to make the right pass, often resulting in high-percentage shots/layups for teammates. At times, his own shot looks wooden and mechanical, but I can live with what he has produced.
I don’t know what OE means, but I’m assuming that it was trashed by Darko’s historically awful start to the season. If this is the case, can we set that stat aside for a while until Darko gets healthy and has a chance to see if he can increase the sample size of good play- extending the trend of (eyeball approved) good games of the last 15 games or so?
Two things
Firts, where is there any evidence of there being enough cases of high percentage shots from Darko’s passes to label that as “often”? Second, how has anything I’ve written disagreed with your last paragraph. I literally wrote that I’m waiting for the noise to calm down a bit so we can get a better read on what appears to be a disturbing trend. I even said it was affected by the early season nonsense.
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
www.canishoopus.com
Again, I can offer no statistical evidence here
but at the eyeball level, what happens when Darko makes the right pass (as I phrased it above)? Layups and easy hoops by cutters like Wes, Brewer and Love. Do your eyeballs tell you differently?
are you even reading what i'm writing at this point
From a few inches above:
I’m not sure we disagree with anything else. I’m going to wait for a larger sample size but the early returns are not good. Not good at all. My eyes tell me he’s a better individual player than this but it’s just not playing itself out with the team’s success.
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
www.canishoopus.com
Hey
I am reading what you are writing, but your comments tend to be voluminous.
You say you are going to wait for a larger sample size, but you also some very pronounced statements about how the team is better off without Darko on the floor. These two things do not seem to go together? Is this a function of my poor reading ability?
yes
yes it is. and on that note, and since i’m being needlessly chippy, i’ll do what i should have done at the start of this and bid you and the site adieu until tomorrow. it will always be there in the morning.
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
www.canishoopus.com
Since we talk about not reading what people post
I would like to know what your eyeballs tell you about Darko’s play over the last 15-20 games.
Darko's season
so far has really been two different seasons. In the first 11 games, he was horrendous on offense shooting 28.8%. In the next 14 games, he played very well and shot 51.8%. I really don’t care about any stats on Darko which include those first 11 games (which included all of October and 57% of November). I know you kind of mention this, but is there any way that you can just look at those 14 games (from the Charlotte game thru the Phoenix game) and provide +/- and efficiency numbers. To my eye right now, he is a positive out there on both ends of the court.
But those games count too, don't they?
He had a full camp and got to know Kurt and his offense in the prior season. Yeah, he had a horrible start. Those losses and his poor play hurt our team. Randy Foye was an all-star in 2008-2009 if we only include his January numbers.
by Rascal Flatts on Dec 19, 2010 1:08 PM CST up reply actions
sort of
I think what we’re seeing with Darko and Beasley is an attempt to see how they do in different situations against real NBA players. Camp doesn’t have the same kind of D
by midlife crisis on Dec 19, 2010 1:10 PM CST up reply actions
You mean the first 11 games of the regular season wasn't against real NBA players?
I don’t get why we totally exonerate a guy for putting up historically bad numbers for a 10+ game stretch. I agree that he’s played better lately. If he keeps this up and we start winning games, that’s great.
by Rascal Flatts on Dec 19, 2010 1:21 PM CST up reply actions
Well...
Threre is at least reason to suspect that maybe, just maybe, he’s not as terrible as his overall numbers are. He was pretty pathetic in those first 11 games, yes, but there are trends which suggest that he’s not teh suck and any analysis that doesn’t at least make that point isn’t really complete.
They say it's always darkest just before dawn and man, was it dark last year.
Exactly
The whole purpose of stats / advanced stats is to try and determine how a player is going to do in the future and how to most effectively use him & who to play him with. It is pretty clear the sample size is way too small to be labeling him as the suck. It is also pretty clear to my eye and several others that he has not been a negative on either the offensive or defensive ends during the past 15 games.
While this is true,
if the next 11 games he plays in are more similar to the first 11 games of the season instead of the last 15 games, then what are we supposed to believe about Darko? And what if after that second 11 game stretch of incredible suckitude he goes on to have another 15 game stretch of borderline all-star caliber performances? If 11 games is too small of a sample size to make a judgment, then 15 games is too small as well. In reality 26 games is probably too small a sample size to make a judgment. But 26 games is better than 15 or 11, so why don’t we go with that until we have seen him play consistently like the all-star or consistently like the bum for a whole season (and I mean for us, because his performance in every other system he has been a part of is only marginally relevant to how he plays in our system). If he flip-flops from the one end to the other (and the caliber of his opposition isn’t a significant factor in his apparent inconsistency), then we can conclude that he is an inconsistent player and know that we can expect either a feast or famine from the guy every night.
My mother was a lovely woman, rest her soul, but she never saw the irony in calling me a "son of a bitch."
- Jack Nicholson
this is his 7th year in the league
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/milicda01.html
let’s not get carried away with thinking that he doesn’t have a huge sample size to judge.
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
www.canishoopus.com
As I stated in my above post,
his performance in every other system he has been a part of is only marginally relevant to how he plays in our system. This goes for every player that comes to a team that plays a system that is different from the one the player previously played in. Ramon Sessions looked like a pretty decent starter when he played for the Bucks, but that didn’t translate very well to our system. So Darko’s numbers prior to the games he played with us last year are pretty much irrelevant when forming an educated opinion on what his numbers will be when playing for us. But we definitely shouldn’t discount any of the numbers he has had while playing with us to make an already small sample size even smaller just for the sake of artificially making him look better (although we can probably safely eliminate the Portland game and the MSG-Knicks game from our per-game calculations of his statistics because he didn’t play enough to get a legitimate opportunity to produce an entire game’s worth of stats – but we should still include them in per-36 minute stats).
My mother was a lovely woman, rest her soul, but she never saw the irony in calling me a "son of a bitch."
- Jack Nicholson
irrelevant?
oi. he’s performing now almost exactly like he did in orlando and memphis.
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
www.canishoopus.com
If he had done the same things he did in Orlando and Memphis while playing for the Lakers during that period, I would happily use that larger data set to draw conclusions.
I’m just not willing to draw conclusions for what to expect from him in this system based on what he has done in systems that are completely different than ours. My reluctance to do so primarily comes from the fact that he has seemed like two different players for us this year – one pretty good and one really bad – and both the Jekyll and Hyde sides of him were on display for extended periods of time – it wasn’t a game-to-game flip of the coin to see which one we got.
If you were inclined to believe that we have enough information from the 50 games or so he’s been with us to come to a conclusion about what to expect from him, that’s alright by me. If you believe that he plays up and down with no real level of consistency for extended periods of time, I can accept that as a valid conclusion for what to expect from him on this team. The fact that it happens to be in line with what he has shown while playing in systems different than the one we run seems to me to be circumstantial.
To me, the other stops are only as relevant as they are similar. I would liken this to Elton Brand joining the 76ers a few years ago. And really the same thing goes for Martell Webster, Michael Beasley, and even Kevin Love. Playing in a different offensive or defensive system will usually entail using a different skill set than before because most of the time the players are asked to do different things. While there is bound to be a fair amount of overlap, some things will definitely be different. If those different things play to the strengths of the player being asked to do them, then they will be more successful. If they play to the weaknesses, then they won’t be successful. It’s possible that we are seeing an offensive system that plays to Darko’s strengths and he will be much more successful here than he was at all of his previous destinations. Or we could just be seeing an extended flash of brilliance from him and he’ll go right back to being a “mind-blowing black hole of suck” in the coming weeks.
My mother was a lovely woman, rest her soul, but she never saw the irony in calling me a "son of a bitch."
- Jack Nicholson
He is who we thought he is
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/milicda01/gamelog/2007/
One day you’ll get a 6-11, a few games later it will be a 3-11 mess. There are exactly two things that have changed with the big fella: assist rates and usage rates. In other words, he’s found a team that is willing to let him handle the ball at a much higher clip than anyone else before. How is he performing? Roughly at the same level with a higher usage rate than he did in Orlando and Memphis. He looks like Jekyll and Hyde because that’s what he is. It’s what he’s always been. He’s teasing his 5th team now. The difference in styles of play is playing itself out exactly like one would expect: he gets a higher usage rate, is asked to make more passes, and otherwise performs close to his historical percentages. He’s doing exactly what one would expect when asked to be something of a focal point of an offense…..often to the detriment of his teammates, which is starting to be noticed in other circles, as well. I think we’re watching a team of 6th men being assembled around Kevin Love.
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
www.canishoopus.com
but,
has darko been a detriment to his teammates and a negative asset on the floor over the past 15 games? Does he have the potential to be a positive asset on both ends of the floor if he keeps playing like this? It has been pretty clear to me and others over the past 10 games that our main problem has been the PG position on both ends of the court, yet Ridnour is the second ranked player on the Berri/Winston list. It doesn’t pass my sniff test.
Exhibit A: Darko plays with a Ridnour/Brewer backcourt.
That right there merits an asterisk next to any claims about his being a detriment to the offense. Exhibit B is Beasley, whose game requires having the ball in his hands. Love is the only other starter who plays well off the ball. And he’s having… well, a great season.
Well,
That problem is easily solved – make Kosta the starting C, or better yet, make Love the starting C and the team will be transformed into instant playoff contender. Darko can be used as the victory cigar again, that strategy got him one ring already, so why change the winning combination :)
by Scott Richard Miller on Dec 20, 2010 8:37 AM CST up reply actions
Kevin Love became the first player in NBA history
to record 40+ points, 15+ rebounds, and make all of his three pointers with a minimum of 5 attempts.
And I was the first person in history
To sit on my couch and watch him do it.
by fanslaststand on Dec 19, 2010 11:24 AM CST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Surprised with Beasley's 2nd half
I figured that he would fold and sleepwalk through the rest of the game after his gawdawful first half, but he showed some poise and played great. He picked up where he left off in the Blazers game with 17 pts & 5 trips to the FT line. But again, the biggest thing to me was his defense. He still had momentary lapses in judgment but he did a much better job of staying with his man and being active overall.
Corey Brewer Sucks
What good play of late is the author talking about? He made the a pass pick up ball players wouldn’t make with 2 minutes left in a 5 point game…dreadful offensive player
As JPete has said on air a lot lately
It is hard to form an opinion on Corey during the game. One second he makes a great steal, or hustles full throttle to track down a lost ball. 30 seconds later he is turning the ball over or shooting a long jumper with a 5% chance of going down.
I like Corey’s hustle, but I think ultimately he is just too erratic to play late game. I think Rambis knows this but cannot find anyone else who can guard SGs.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Dec 19, 2010 12:40 AM CST up reply actions
Webster needs a chance
I know he’s still getting his legs back but I really think (read: hope) he’s the guy we want playing the 2 at crunch time. I missed last nights game and didn’t notice him too much against Pheonix, can anyone comment on how his D looked?
Yep, when Martell gets his legs, that'll be great.
Jonny? I’m not sure. He plays strangely. It looks like he’s doing ball-handling drills
in-game, hopping around like a plugged antelope. I can’t figure him out yet. No one
plays like that. Seeing it is different than looking at stats. Stats look OK, but his style
out there is weird. I guess unpredictability is OK, as long as he and his mates know
where he is going. He baffles me at this point.
"Fighting contraction since 1989"
We win if we've kept Lawson and not Flynn
that’s just sickening and frustrating to think as a Wolves fan.
I don't think that's a huge deal
A lot of other teams didn’t think much of Lawson either. It wasn’t a tragic misstep.
If you want to be angry, be angry that we took Flynn instead of Curry
And yet the Canis Hoopus board knew
I recall Lawson being a top 5 pick based on his score in the CH college player rater.
If it wasn't for Jordan Farmar and that guy Kevin Love, I would've killed somebody!
Not sure where the complete hoopus rating was posted
but he was 3rd among guards (behind curry and harden). (good memory!)
The community draft board had him at 12.
Stockpiling "winnable" games since we lost the first one
by Cedarpenguin on Dec 20, 2010 1:40 PM CST up reply actions
I liked Lawson
because of what I saw in the NCAA tournament. However I didn’t think Curry or Jennings would make a good NBA players so…
I know that SnP and many others here rated Lawson above Flynn
Flynn was a weird, out-of-nowhere pick.
by WolvesFan03 on Dec 19, 2010 11:02 AM CST up reply actions
4th road game in 5 nights - top two centers out
It’s bad to lose. It’s worse to get smoked and show no heart. This team did not fold in the 4th quarter. That means something. The Timberwolves coaching staff is doing a good job with ten new players and many young players. I like these players and this coaching staff. We did not expect everything to turn around this season. Next season the corner will get turned and we will get a glimpse of what a (this) team can do.
3 top Centers out.
Tolliver would get the start before Koufos if they were the only two bigs healthy other than KLove and Beasley.
My mother was a lovely woman, rest her soul, but she never saw the irony in calling me a "son of a bitch."
- Jack Nicholson
The comment about Milicic being a blackhole...
I am definitely noticing a trend of Darko passing up the opportunity to hit the open man from 3-range. He keeps dribbling until the help defender gets deep enough that Darko can’t make a good kickout happen. However, to be fair, there is very little movement happening on the perimeter comparing to earlier in the season. The cuts to the basket have disappeared as has most of the misdirections and other utility plays. Guys stand in their spot and watch Darko go to work a la Al Jefferson. That’s not Darko’s fault…
Ailuridae - Why can't we be friends? Why can't we be friends?
Love 4 Love
Am I the only one who has to fight the urge to take a game in the 20/20 range from Kevin Love for granted? I guess he’s averaging 20/16, but we always lose the game, so I see his boxscore and stifle a yawn and fume that his weak side defense sucks. Then I catch myself and think he’s averaging 16 rebounds?!
To what then do we attribute Love’s quantum leap this year? The normal progression from rookie to veteran? To Rambis’ brilliant and unimpeachable coaching prowess? Do we give Love more credit for having historic games on a 6 win team? Or less credit?
And if he’s still in his 20s…what’s he gonna be like in his prime?
by Los Lobos Del Bosque on Dec 19, 2010 3:26 AM CST reply actions
Normal improvements
Per-36 minutes, his numbers have gone from 16/13 to 18/14 to 21/16. It’s normally reasonable to expect this level of improvement from a 20 year old rookie to a 22 year old 3rd year player. It’s just that 13 rebounds/36 minutes was such an elite number that we all assumed Love as already operating at maximum potential. Normal improvements to Love’s production took him from very good to ridiculous.
If it wasn't for Jordan Farmar and that guy Kevin Love, I would've killed somebody!
by John Doe on Dec 19, 2010 7:44 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly so. This is a solid example of numbers/time being useful.
For two years those of us wringing our hands over why Love couldn’t get playing time were looking at those rates, seeing a pretty good chance he could emerge this way.
Have we even had a thread to do with Love’s increased playing time this year? He just played 37+, 39+, and 43+ minutes in three consecutive games, the latter two of which were a back-to-back, and he scored like a monster down the stretch of the third game. Let’s have that talk about his bad conditioning again, shall we?
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
by feral on Dec 19, 2010 9:18 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Decisions....
Corey Brewer should not touch the ball on the offensive end if the game is in the balance, as this one was…..there was an opportunity at 102 -108 to cut this to a four point game, the Nugs were wobbling a bit….Flynn threw it at Brewer who fumbled it out of bounds. He seemed to do this most of the night at crucial junctures ie when the Wolves were trying to get onto the front foot. All of a sudden it’s an 8 point defecit again…..Brewer was great on the defensive end but offensively just not on the same page as anyone else.Then, shortly afterwards, we have a play whereby the clock drains away and the best we can come up with is a Luke Ridnour 3 pointer from about 6 miles out. Are these really the best choices we can make at critical stages of the game?
blame the ridnour 3 attempt on Brewer too
because… it was Brewer that failed on the play and left Ridnour with nowhere to go.
I'm a Timberwolves fan, therefore I must be a masochist.
Execution, execution, execution
1. Too many points off turnovers, badly timed ones too.
2. Is it remotely possible to hold Anthony under 20 points? He’s a machine.
3. Lawson is just a better NBA player than Flynn. Markedly.
4. He should start calling himself B-Streaky.
5. All I could think of in the fourth quarter was the late great Johnny Cash – specifically this song, which ought to be the season’s refrain:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2fTVnFeErw
Ringmaster of the Cirque du Coreil.
The suspense is killing me.
A Boy Named Sue?
Ring of Fire?
Goodnight, Irene?
I Still Miss Someone? (As in, Ricky Rubio?)
Ghost Riders in the Sky?
What can it be??
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
The turning point for me...
…was that possession in the 4th when there was a silly turnover between Flynn and Brewer, and while they were talking to each other and exchanging apologies, Denver quickly inbounded the ball for an easy layup. This was all in the midst of the Wolves run that lost critical momentum after the aforementioned back-to-back boneheaded plays.
Credit the Wolves for having some fight and making a game out of it, but it all seems of symptomatic of what Jim Petersen (who should be an NBA assistant coach sometime soon, and who the Lynx are lucky to have) was talking about a few games ago when he mentioned that the Wolves don’t value possessions. Not only are the Wolves the league leaders in turnovers, but so many of them are silly turnovers like traveling, stepping out of bounds, fumbled hand offs, or being unable to respond to full court pressure while inbounding the ball. Also, how many possessions have we seen, particularly in crunch time, that result in an awful shot? It’s not only turnovers that are killing this team, but just managing to get quality shots at critical points in the game. I’m sure having an inexperienced team with a lot of new parts plays into this, but it seems like a mindset issue as well, which makes it all the more frustrating from a fan’s perspective.
On a side note, I wish there was a mixtape of Tom Hanneman spinning the Wolves’ poor play into reasons to admire Rambis or stick with this team. In virtually every game, there’s mention of Rambis’ patience, ‘teachable moments’, ‘growing pains’, or assurance that they’ll eventually ‘figure it out’. I’m thinking about making a drinking game out of it. Not saying that he’s not right, but it is a little comical at times, and I enjoy the combination of Hanneman’s predictable, company-line optimism with Petersen’s increasingly more critical take.
"Loading up the pump, the uzi, a couple M-16's, a couple 9's, a couple joints with some silencers on them, a couple grenades, and a missile launcher with a couple missiles since 2003"
every possession matters and the wolves don't seem to get this
pete’s been excellent on this point lately. you’re 100% right.
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
www.canishoopus.com
Jim Pete seems to have grown into his role pretty well.
I don’t get a chance to watch much, being too cheap for FSN, but he’s comfortable. Hope they hang onto him for another year.
He does lack Kevin Harlan-esque schtick, but I don’t miss that so much.
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
www.atdhe.com carries almost all of their games and is free.
I know we’ve said this numerous times before, but every time people talk about not being able to see games I feel a need to point people to that website. The quality is usually pretty grainy, but it’s better than nothing. Also, if you have a TV with an HDMI port you should be able to hook up most computers to display on the TV – HDMI cables can be expensive (HDMI cables usually retail for $30 or more), but if you can make friends with an employee of Best Buy (I find that $10 can make a lot of friends) you can actually get one at around cost (under $5) making the entire expenditure $15 or less.
My mother was a lovely woman, rest her soul, but she never saw the irony in calling me a "son of a bitch."
- Jack Nicholson
I attest that it is indeed better than nothing
and if you hook it up to your TV you can watch the game on mute andDexter at the same time to make the GF happy
by Timberwolf i.e. Albatross on Dec 19, 2010 10:52 AM CST up reply actions
Dexter is a fun show.
My mother was a lovely woman, rest her soul, but she never saw the irony in calling me a "son of a bitch."
- Jack Nicholson
Gonna start season 5 tonight...
Amazing show that makes you wonder about your own humanity when you root for a serial killer…
by Timberwolf i.e. Albatross on Dec 19, 2010 10:56 AM CST up reply actions
I don't question my humanity when watching that show.
I can understand and sympathize with Dexter – though I don’t really buy into the “destined to be a serial killer just because he witnessed his mother’s murder” angle that the show is predicated upon. Maybe I just have too much faith in humanity and the field of Psychology to accept pre-determination of that kind.
I feel like if I were ever to be put in a situation where my ability to survive within the bounds of the law was taken away from me that I would probably become a very successful serial killer.
My mother was a lovely woman, rest her soul, but she never saw the irony in calling me a "son of a bitch."
- Jack Nicholson
No one should ever even consider paying big box prices for HDMI cables
monoprice.com has them for dollars, and even Amazon has them for like $7. BB’s price are absolutely absurd with zero justification for what they charge. Anyone who has ever paid full price there should go back and ask for a reacharound because you got bent over.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
Is it that recent a thing?
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
Yes.
Could not agree more……you can see opposing teams jumping into the passing lanes and over commiting on the post feeds because they just know the Wolves will cough it up.
It’s happening so often that you wonder if the team have accepted it as being a normal occurence.
It needs sorted…quickly.
by Kevin Farmer on Dec 19, 2010 9:50 AM CST up reply actions
Appreciate that the NBA highlights 'reel' included Love on the early offensive glass.
There was one possession that showed him at his willing-the-ball best. At the time I said it was a highlight that wouldn’t get treated as one… But sure enough, somebody noticed.
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
Just a random thought
Guys that the offense is run through on other teams…
Howard, Kobe and pau, cp3, d will.. Sorry I just don’t remember those guys and the alike just Turning their teams into playoff teams after their first year of doing it… It takes time and chemistry but darko has shown that he can do it @ times with the best of them..
This has to be very new to him, he has a ton of responsibility, and he’s embracing it. Once he gets it down, I believe that darko will be used to the attention that hes getting and
Will excel.. But he needs time, the talent is there…
Love is a rebounding god, but no wAy he grabs 30 rebounds without @ least some type of burn in 2 seasons.. This is Beasleys first year in the NBA where he’s getting double teamed and things of that nature, and while he’s incredibly skilled, he was a black hole and still can be @ times…. Will he be in 2 years??? Hell naw..
Your core? Rubio, beasley, love, darko and lets get barnes… Peronally, think we could get turner from Philly… I think a wes turner wing combo would be sick
by HKayden on Dec 19, 2010 10:46 AM CST via mobile reply actions
(Not sure why we're spotting Beasley two seasons in that comparison.)
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
Am I the ONLY one here who.....
is relatively satisfied in the much improved play and competiveness in the Wolves? It seems to me this is the normal learning curve of a very young team with almost an entire new roster, combined with all the injuries that have caused a lack of familiarity on the court with most of the guys.
Would I have liked some more wins as a result? ABSOLUTELY. But for me, for this team right now, it is about the “Journey to Maturity” (how’s that for turning a phrase?)
This team has been the laughing stock of the league (only the Clippers were funnier), for many years. For the first time in a long time the Wolves are actually getting some + national publicity for their play. For me, this season is a big step, and has already been enjoyable to watch.
When I read ALL the negative comments here, I wonder did people expect consistant play and wins this year? I would suggest if thats the case, the posters were misguided in that belief
I was hoping for a few more wins by now, but what I REALLY want to see is season long growth of the team, combined with learning their roles on the court, consistant effort, consistant competiveness, all culminating in a nice run of wins during the last 21 games of the season. I believe ( though don’t know for sure), that our schedule for the first 1/4 was a tougher than average scedule.
I think people here either have forgot how bad the last 2 seasons were, or are just jaded and cynical, wanting results RIGHT NOW, without letting the team grow into being good. I for one am enjoying watching the growth of this team!
Last word…. “All we are saying is give Flynn a chance” apologies to J Lennon.
by lazlopierce on Dec 19, 2010 11:26 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
No I'm having a ball actually.
Start of the year my goal for the team was to have 60 games competitive late into the 4th quarter with no more than 22 games decided before the final 5 or so mins. The other goal was to see if improvement from several players on the roster.
things I’m pleased with
Kevin Love
Beasley like what I’m seeing often, but jury is still out with the charges and TOs
Darko I want to see more — overall not great — since Charlotte so much nicer to watch
Tolliver was a nice pick up
Webster and Flynn to early to call
Disappointments
Rambis …he maybe good, but I find myself second guessing him and our offense as a whole and our defensive scheme way too often. Could be I’m just not getting it, but I don’t have much faith in him at the moment
Pekovic …Rookie adjustments were expected, but I didn’t think I’d see him committing 3 second violations, fouls and offensive goal tending violations at the rate we have been.
Ridnour …I like Luke, but I think we kinda pulled a bait and switch on him. We are supposed to be a push the pace running team. We aren’t. Our pace is fast, but we don’t run the break. Luke looks so good pushing the ball in traffic, but not so good in the half court and on D.
Nah
I’m pretty satisfied. This stuff takes time, much more than most around here seem willing to give. Maturing into a competent NBA team certainly doesn’t happen overnight, or even over a couple years, at least for the vast majority of teams. It takes luck, some GMing ability and lots of time to gel. Simply put, none of our guys are vets who really know what’s up and how to play in the league. Until they get to that point they are going to struggle with simple things, turn the ball over a lot, fail to close out games and generally get abused by the rest of the league.
At least we can see them starting to be competitive. I’m not sure where they’ll end up and I still think we need a lot more talent, but we seem to be moving in the right direction and I’m happy for that. If they fail to get there, I’ll be disappointed, but I have hope now, something I didn’t have last year, and that’s a step in the right direction in my mind.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
I am willing to give Rambis a pass...
Until the end of the season. He has some talent, but he has players and a team with obvious faults.
If by the end of the season:
1) the team is cutting down turnovers.
2) Beasley and Darko are getting better and quicker in their decision-making.
3) we beat teams we are supposed to beat and close out some games against superior opponents
4) Our team starts making the right rotations on 3-point shooters
5) Rambis gets better at managing the clock
6) Corey Brewer stops forcing shots and plays his role
- I will believe we have some semblance of coaching and player development that is worth keeping
BTW, I think Rubio is going to help a ton
2 things I think Rubio can do very well in the NBA.
1) Play Defense (once he gets familiar with the speed of the game) – his length and quickness is very unique
2) See plays develop before they happen and set up the offense accordingly. This is one thing Ridnour and Flynn are not very good at, especially as shoot-first PGs. I think this is why you see a lot of our offensive possesions turn into stagnant, dribble-pounding. (Well that and people cutting without any real purpose).
Darko's last 15 games.
Since November 15th
Games: 15
Minutes: 422 (28.1 MPG)
FGs: 95/181 (52.5% FG)
FTs: 23/35 (65.7% FT)
Points: 213 (14.2 PPG)
O.Reb: 35 (2.3 ORPG)
D.Reb: 61 (4.1 DRPG)
Ast: 37 (2.5 APG)
Blks: 41 (2.7 BPG)
TOs: 37 (2.5 TOPG)
So, after seeing a couple posters making Darko the new whipping boy, I decided to do some research. I’m not going to post the stats since you can see them above, but it becomes clear that Darko is NOT the problem. Your team would have stunk with or without Darko and the fact that you’re looking at a Center as the problem when its the incompetent guards who can’t do shit tells me that this is just the annual “sucky teams” fans’ way of getting their anger out.
Anyone who was expecting Darko to be the savior is a fool. All the advanced stats can go fuck themselves because according to them, Love is the best defender.
JUST WATCH THE GAMES WITH YOUR EYES.
Ignore the broken English in places…
Ailuridae - Why can't we be friends? Why can't we be friends?
by DarkoMilicic on Dec 19, 2010 12:09 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
+1
I think Darko and Beasley could be unstoppable, with Love. I really think the talent is there.
It really comes down to coaching now, getting people to cut well off the ball. And getting Beasley and Darko to really start making quicker and better decisions of what they are going to do with the ball. (and sometimes Love, although I think of the three he won’t and doesn’t need to have the ball in his hands).
I give Flynn a month – after that I give up on PG play until we get new players (Rubio).
by Pass the rock on Dec 19, 2010 12:19 PM CST up reply actions
The reason the advanced stats may suggest that Love is the best defender on this team is simple,
defensive rebounding is incredibly important. When a player gets an offensive rebound they usually are in position to get a high percentage shot. When Love is in the game our opponents get fewer second chance possessions, which means they get fewer of those easy put-backs. Love makes a living off of getting easy put-backs on the offensive end, which probably is part of the reason he has such a high offensive rating. So the stats can be misleading, and they certainly don’t tell the whole story. But that doesn’t mean they are lying either, because the truth MAY BE that Love prevents as many easy baskets for our opponents with his rebounding ability as Milicic prevents with his ability to block and alter shots.
My mother was a lovely woman, rest her soul, but she never saw the irony in calling me a "son of a bitch."
- Jack Nicholson
When we're saying "advanced" here, we seem to mean the "aggregate" stats.
It’s only when you get to stuff like PER and “Win Shares” that we’re lumping rebounding, steals, assists, and everything else in a box score in order to supposedly produce One Stat To Rule Them All.
Those really, really are not the gist of “advanced” stats. At all. At all. Those are a sort of selling point for people like Hollinger, and they can be okay thumbnails, sure. But it makes me a little crazy to see PER treated as if it’s somehow the epitome of how “advanced stats” people think. Far from it.
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
by feral on Dec 20, 2010 3:50 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I like this. No, really. I do.
Of all the idiots, in all the idiot villages, in all the idiot worlds, you stand alone, my friend.
Personally I don't see rebounding as integral to "defense" in that sense.
There are too many players who do one well, but not the other, at first blush.
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
What about Ridnour?
139 comments and not one about our senior calming influence. 1-7 shooting, and a crucial possession with a couple minutes left and down 5. Luke brings the ball up and jacks a 3 with 20 seconds left on the shot clock. Then he runs back on defense and fouls the shooter under the basket. A huge turnaround.
I was one of those happy to get Luke, thinking he was the backup mentor we needed but he repeatedly makes the errors you’d expect a rookie to make. I am really disappointed in what he has provided.
What he said
I know Flynn has a lot of detractors on this board, but with the way the vet Ridnour’s played, I can’t understand how anyone wouldn’t want the young kid with potential (however much it may be) to start and get more burn.
Ridnour’s been a plague.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Dec 19, 2010 1:40 PM CST up reply actions
Here's why I don't want Flynn to start...
Kevin Love is 5 for 5 for 3 point range.
He sets a pick for Flynn, who drags both defenders with him.
Does he kick it back to Love for another attempt?
No.
He dribbles it into a crowd and then throws it to Brewer when he realizes he can’t do anything with it.
How does an NBA point guard run that play and not at least look for Love, unguarded out at the perimeter?
FAIL.
Check out Humdinger TV on YouTube.
http://twitter.com/HumdingerTV
by HumdingerTV on Dec 20, 2010 11:05 AM CST up reply actions
Luke is either great or terrible
Lights out or 1-xxx. If we could replace him with someone who’s consistently GOOD, this team will make monster strides.
Hopefully Ricky will be that guy, or maybe Irving if we’re lucky enough to land in a spot to draft him. And yes, if he keeps playing as well as he has early, and if he’s not out for the season, I would take him 10 times out of 10 if he’s BPA, Rubio or not.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
Luke has been my biggest disappointment of the year
I thought signing him was a great idea. Since then, I’m just consistently shocked at the poor decision making he constantly displays, mostly at the end of games. I don’t even feel confident with him bringing the ball up under moderate pressure. We need to trade for a PG. There’s gotta be somebody better available till Rubio comes. Even a half-season rental.
and 1-0
when Love gets more than 30 rebounds
by midlife crisis on Dec 19, 2010 2:42 PM CST up reply actions
My perspective
Great discussion! Got me out of the woodwork here. Been a reader since about March leading into the draft. Have really got emotionally involved with the Wolves since the reset with Kahn/Rambis creating some new interest if not hope for me. I am more in the Oceanary/Biggity positivity mindset than Stop-N-Pops but I hold no judgement of those struggling to be hopeful – I can’t imagine what it was like to be emotionally invested in the Wolves the last five years. Must have been painful. I am also more of ‘eyeball’ guy than a “stats” guy when coming to evaluating the progress of our Wolves.
i have a Masters of Psychology and an undergraduate minor in math so have some knowledge of both Art and Science. To me stats are an attempt to turn art into science. In psychology, a people get excited over a %40 percent correlation between a hypothesis and the outcome of a study. That means it still is not true %60 of the time. When I sat down with a depressed client the fact that a SSRI works for %60 of depressed people is meaningless in the context of that one client. I have to say “Let’s try it”.
To me sports is art not science. You have all these pieces and tools and you are trying to paint a picture. Kahn/Rambis are in the process of painting a picture and we won’t know the out come for another two years or so. To me it is shaping up and looks hopeful. In two years or so we will know if we have Rembrandts, good artists that only experts know about or some hippy artist who thinks his art is great but it is really the dope. The proof will be in the pudding.
In the meantime I am really enjoying watching these guys scratch. We still haven’t had all the pieces in place over an extended period of time. We are in consistently in the ballgame until the last five minutes or so, or scrap from behind. I know lots of teams really step it up the last five and we haven’t learned to deal with the increased pressure. It wouldn’t hurt, though, if just once they missed a three or two instead seemingly hitting every freaking one and/or we get a call or two. Rubio gets here and we get a few more pieces and we learn to play as well the last five as the rest of the game, my intuition tells me we should be winning at least half our ball games. From there it’s on to a masterpiece – yes i am an optimist. Go Wolves!
As a hard science person
I’m assuming that by art and science you mean math is the science and psychology is the art
by midlife crisis on Dec 19, 2010 6:28 PM CST up reply actions
(Which is which?)
i have a Masters of Psychology and an undergraduate minor in math so have some knowledge of both Art and Science.
Which is the art, and which the science? ;-)
Every real thought on every real subject knocks the wind out of somebody or other. – OWH
Good HDMI cables are not expensive!
http://www.monoprice.com/home/index.asp
All cables meet the same specs as Best Buy or Monster cables.
"The Human race has only one really effective weapon, and that is laughter"-Mark Twain
Yessss!
Got mine from there for like 3 bucks and they work absolutely perfectly. NEVER BUY FROM BIG BOX STORES!!! Cables especially, but really anything. They’re terrible.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
lol those stores are terrible
I got a SSD the other day and realized I didn’t have a SATA cable, best lie of course wanted $25 the only one they had on their shelves so I ordered online with expedited shipping and only paid $5 (mainly for the shipping). Go F yourself Best Buy/Wal Mart/Staples/etc.
I'm not sure if I should be ticke off at S&P for raining on my parade
… or thankful that he interjects entertaining vitriol into a situation that can easily turn out as badly as last year.
On the one hand, this team really does demand patience. We still don’t have anything close to a starting PG and our SG can’t handle the ball well enough to pick up the slack. Given those apparent weaknesses, being competitive while developing players way to a spot that they are better to far better than hoped for leads to excitement. What will this mean with Rubio, a PG who plays defense.
On the other hand, I’m glad to have someone calling out the FO on having buckets of assets and turning it into very very little. Webster, Wes and Flynn are all this regime has brought in with their assets while both Darko and Beasley were free. I’m happy with what Kahn does in the discount aisle, but please, don’t let him go shopping with the whole list. Now that Iggy has played himself off the block, I don’t know if there’s a player out there that can make a big difference when that last window closes.
The worst thing about Kahn coming in right before the draft was that it kept McHale from continuing his run of rockin’ #5 picks. His 1st two became hall of famers and K Love is who McHale thought he was. Kahn brought us the Rubio/Flynn and a year of KAAHN jokes.
Agreed...
there is still much to wonder about in the here and now. Kahn has done exactly what he said he would do – go long, athletic and young and use a development model. The development model is very intriguing to me considering how young players are coming into the league now. Kahn will probably rise or fall on whether this works. The jury is out for me more re Rambis – he has helped them stay competitive despite multiple injuries and lineups, but some of his coaching in the last 5 minutes has been puzzling to me. Clearly his is still in a development mode but when does losing become a habit Hopefully he can be more helpful in the end game.
Agree with previous poster that Flynn’s playing style has been strange – he has some tools, hopefully he is just lost due to being way behind on the system, but it was disheartening watching Lawson run circles around Flynn in this last game. I was a Curry guy myself but hopefully Flynn can come around – he does seem to be trying to facilitate more than score and he certainly has more competent teammates to pass to.
I like Love, Beasley, Webster, Tolliver, and Johnson a lot. Love Corey’s ability to disrupt and provide energy, but he needs to be on the bench the last five minutes except for defensive purposes. Ridnour has disappointed – agree we are really hurting at point guard and this has been glaring the last five minutes. Ambivalent about Darko and Pechovic – great potential but not sure how they fit. I’m really rooting for Darko though, but I don’t think you can develop confidence in someone – he is going to have to find his own way and may never do that.
I don't understand anyone disliking Rambis, but...
Well, I caught myself screaming and swearing at him last night when I realized he wasn’t fouling. Absolutely, if I’m the Nugget with the ball, I throw it as high as possible. The refs can’t blow the whistle until it comes down.
A normal outside shot takes three seconds from the time it leaves your hands to the time it’s rebounded and a time out is called. That’s assuming the defense gets it pretty immediately. The probability the defense gets the ball cleanly when all the other team has to do is tip it is well, not super high.
Horrible decision.
You can't dust for vomit.
Stop-N-Pop...
Not only do we obsess over the same ridiculously frustrating basketball team…
We also have the same favorite 90 seconds off the new Girl Talk album.
ODB smashed up with Radiohead’s Creep?
Um, yes please.
Check out Humdinger TV on YouTube.
http://twitter.com/HumdingerTV
my 2nd favorite moment
was inxs and holla back.
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
www.canishoopus.com
As a St. Cloud State alum,
I think you’re overlooking the Huskies in the conversation with at least Mankato State. They’ve had their share of Elite Eight appearances and conference titles in a decade where they played regularly against the Mavericks.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Dec 20, 2010 1:53 PM CST reply actions
that's pretty good for a school
with several degrees in drinking.
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
www.canishoopus.com
Ugh
I get defensive about those assumptions, especially since the basis is a Homecoming incident that happened over 20 years ago. There are likely no numbers on this, but it’d be a shock to me if the number of binge drinkers were drastically different than any other public nonreligious school in the state.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Dec 20, 2010 3:53 PM CST up reply actions
i'm sure it's no worse
than msu here in kato….where we have the barmuda triangle and the drunk bus. it’s a fine school. i went to several b-ball camps up there. just giving you a bad time.
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
www.canishoopus.com
Of course
I understand; I actually don’t think it’s a fine school, but it gets the job done for what it’s there for.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Dec 20, 2010 5:07 PM CST up reply actions
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