The Charlotte Pick
by shrink on Feb 21, 2010 10:22 PM CST
44 comments
On Saturday night, there was a game that slipped many people's attention, but may have a profound effect on the Timberwolves future. Milwaukee beat Charlotte 93-88, and it reduced the Bobcats lead for making the Eastern Conference play-off race to a single game.
Eastern Conference Standings February 21, 2010
1. Cleveland 43-14
2. Orlando 38-19
3. Boston 35-19
4. Atlanta 34-20
5. Toronto 31-24
6. Chicago 29-26
7. Miami 29-28
8. Charlotte 27-27
9. Milwaukee 26-28
10. Philadelphia 21-34
11. Detroit 20-35
12. Washington 19-34
13. New York 19-35
14. Indiana 19-36
15. New Jersey 5-51
At this point, it looks like four teams will be competing for five play-off spots, and with this win, Milwaukee closes to within one game of the final spot. The borderline play-off teams in the Western conference have better records, and it looks like whichever team Eastern Conference team misses the play-offs will end up with a lottery pick at #11 or #12. If that team ends up being the Bobcats, their pick will be protected this year, and be deferred to the future.
Charlotte Pick protections:
2010: Top 12 protected
2011: Top 10 protected
2012: Top 8 protected
2013: Top 3 protected
2014: Unprotected
Is it likely we get the pick next year? Would it be better if it was delayed? You be the judge.
Is it likely we get the pick next year?
At the deadline, both Charlotte and Milwaukee both took on salary to improve their team, while Chicago may have slipped. Charlotte has a strong team, and a good coach in the mercurial Larry Brown. However, the Bobcats are one of the most inconsistent teams in the league. While they've beaten the best team in the league (CLE), they've lost twice to the worst team in the league (NJN), and in fact account for 2 of their 5 wins! Moreover, their star Gerald Wallace has been having a great year, but he is often injured, and in fact plays with a style that invites injury. The Bobcats are perhaps the hardest team in the league to predict.
With the clustering of the teams trying to make the Eastern Conference play-offs, maybe its a good time to go over the tie-breaker rules. For two-way ties, the 1st tie-breaker is head-to-head record. Charlotte breaks down this way:
CHA vs MIL 1-2
CHA vs MIA 2-0
CHA vs CHI 1-1
CHA vs TOR 1-1
(You can see Saturday night's loss to Milwaukee may be important.)
The next tie breaker is winning percentage within the division.
Charlotte 5-4
Milwaukee 6-5
Miami 7-4
Chicago 7-3
Toronto 7-3
For three-way ties, the rules are similar. The first tie-breaker is the best record among all the head-to-head games among the three teams, and the second tie-breaker is, again, winning percentage within their own division. If a further tie-breaker is needed, they'll compare each team's conference record.
Would it be better if for the Wolves if the pick was delayed?
This is a tough question to answer, and I've heard great points on each side.
Fans that want the pick this summer mention that the Wolves could use a big improvement immediately. If we get the pick this year, it'll be a pick in the teens that barely misses this year's protection. There are several good players in this year's draft, particularly in the teens. It may be better to take a "bird in the hand" rather than add the risk that Charlotte improves and the pick devalues. In any event, waiting for the pick may reduce its value in trade. For us, we want to make a big impact next year, and getting a guy on the court can only help.
Those that wish to delay the pick point out that with its declining protection, the pick could climb higher in the lottery, and perhaps much higher if its delayed a few years. The Bobcats are likely to be sold in the next few weeks, either to an investment group led by Michael Jordan, or if he declines, to AOL's Ted Leonidas. In most cases, when a team changes hands, the team sheds long term salary (and talent) so the franchise is more marketable, and so the new owner can put his stamp on the team more quickly. It's quite possible the team could be headed for a few years of rebuilding, in which case the pick could become a high lottery pick in the future. Finally, delaying the pick would remove the $1.3 mil cap hold this summer, and save us $0.9 mil in additional cap space.
Regardless of whether you hope we get the pick, or that it's delayed, Wolves fans may want to keep an eye on the Bobcats and other Eastern Conference teams to see where that pick will end up. Games like Saturday's between two mediocre teams in the East may be important to our future.
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My Guess
is that Charlotte won’t get a ton better. I tend to think Gerald Wallace’s game will start to slip. Stephen Jackson is also more likely to go down the up. Nazr Mohammed is having a career year. I think the issue is the pick can’t really get much higher till 2013. There’s not a huge difference between picking 15th in 2010 versus 10th in 2012. As far as value.
We need talent.
And the odds of any one player in the 8-14 range of a draft being that much better than another player in the same range are negligible. The sure things are gone, and you are left to tempt fit and fate with your picks. Some of them will bust, some of them will bloom, and hopefully your squad has done their best to evaluate a player’s ability to contribute to a vision. All that to say, if we hope to improve from 13 to 9 while waiting a year, I don’t see the point.
My best guess
A non playoff team in the West gets in the top 3 and bumps Charlotte back to #13. Watch OKC or New Orleans get the #1 pick.
They're also on the upswing
I think the only way they miss the playoffs now is if Durant or Westbrook get injured.
delayed gratification
I’ve been pretty surprised to see how many fans seem to want the pick this year. To me, pushing it into the future is clearly better. First of all, it adds a bit of cap space next year. But more importantly, if the Bobcats go into a decline the pick could be top 10 in 2 years, or top 5 the year after that. Even as a trade asset, the pick would be worth a lot more next year – especially if the Bobcats start badly.
On a related note, does anybody have any idea what happens to a protected pick like this one (and the one the Wolves owe the Clippers) if an entire season gets lost to a lockout?
If no draft is held?
Everything is bumped back. The timing of the draft makes me think that is unlikely; the NBA started their lockout after the 1998 draft and was finished before the 1999 draft. The current CBA expires after 2011, but will the players be locked out before the draft or after?
After.
The season ends on June 30th every year. There is a reason the draft is held when it is. And that’s the reason for it.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
Would be a nice chip to have in a trade, otherwise you can have Stanley Robinson or Damion James, maybe that Whiteside kid too if he drops.
by AnotherDraftPickBitesTheDust on Feb 21, 2010 11:33 PM CST reply actions
Hope we get it, this year...
mostly because I think Charlotte will get slightly better next year, with a full season of S-Jack and Wallace. Plus, this year’s draft seems a little deeper than most. The 15th or so pick might look pretty good, compared to some seasons. DraftExpress has Xavier Henry at 15, right now, and I’d be ecstatic to get a guy like him at that spot.
I think the Wolves do OK either way
Early in the season I posted a few times that I wanted to wait for the Charlotte pick. Partly to spread out the picks a little better, but also thinking it could become a top 5 pick. I still think that is possible if Charlotte misses the playoffs this season. They have some volatile personalities on the floor, an ownership change, and the possibility Larry Brown could leave at any time, but it is just as likely in a couple years it ends up around the 10th pick.
Flip side is this is a deep draft, and as mentioned by others above the 15th pick in this draft could be better than the 10th pick in a later draft.
Probably best to get it now and deal with the extra picks. Biggest thing for me is getting the Utah pick, I don’t like how it becomes a 2nd rounder in a few years.
Why draft Henry with the Charlotte pick if we can get James Anderson with the Utah pick?
I may be way off on this, but James Anderson appears to be what Xavier Henry could be in two years. I don’t get why JA doesn’t get more love. He’s putting up some fantastic numbers and has improved at attacking the rim.
by Rascal Flatts on Feb 22, 2010 3:18 PM CST up reply actions
Heck, take them both
god knows we could use the talent.
by College Wolf on Feb 22, 2010 3:35 PM CST up reply actions
My thought was to use the Charlotte pick for an athletic big like Sanders, Alibi, Udoh, etc.
and then use the Utah pick for a value guy like James Anderson or Damion James, players that are solid performing upperclassmen, but don’t get loved in the draft because of their perceived lack of a high ceiling.
by Rascal Flatts on Feb 22, 2010 4:15 PM CST up reply actions
I won't be surprised if Kahn trades the Utah pick
for a 1st rounder a couple years from now, especially if he likes their own pick and gets the Charlotte pick.
I'll take it now thanks
Predicting what Charlotte’s roster might look like in 2013 is fraught with danger. And that pick is attractive enough to be parlayed into something more valuable on draft night.
Oh, and a question if I may:
Charlotte have traded a 2012 1st round protected pick to Chicago for Ty Thomas (?). If we have yet to claim our pick, is the Chicago claim held off for two years after our or simply honoured when the next pick becomes available?
Won't someone think of the ping pong balls?
Kurt Rambis - stop this insanity!
Correct
The Ted Stepien rule prevents a team from trading away its future picks so that they would go two consecutive years without a first. The protections on this trade would require that it be conveyed two years after they give us our pick.
Many of you probably recall when Minnesota did the same thing. After the 2004-05 cancerous Cassell/Sprewell/KG team fell apart, the Wolves desperately needed to add talent around Garnett, but had little in trade to get anything but talented-but-flawed players that would cost little. On January 26, the Wolves acquired Ricky Davis, Mark Blount, Marcus Banks, Justin Reed and 2 second rounders for Wally Szczerbiak, Michael Olowokandi, Dwayne Jones, and a future protected 1st
Wahref=“http://www.nba.com/timberwolves/news/wolves_trade_06.html” target="new">
Because the Wolves already owed a top-10 future protected 1st to the Clippers, the protected pick could only be conveyed two years after the Clippers pick was conveyed (and then the BOS pick would still need to meet the further protections of the second pick). As it turns out, this pick would not have been given out, and would have converted to a second rounder or cash. It is illegal for a team to trade a pick that is more than 7 years in the future, so protected picks often have clauses for what becomes of the pick in its final elligible year, such as turning into cash, second-rounders, or becoming an unprotected 1st.
This trade is also note-worthy for another reason. The two second rounders eventually turned into Craig Smith and Nikola Pekovic.
I think there are positives to both:
If we get it this year, I really think we draft [someone like] Larry Sanders who fills our need for a defensive big. Drafting that D-minded big this year allows him to learn our system and gain valuable experience so that when we make our 2012 playoff run he is a 2nd year player rather than a rookie.
If we do not get the pick, that is OK as well. As I said—I really believe the CHA pick will get used on a D-minded big, and if we cannot find a D-minded big with the UTA pick, we can always look to convince Darko to stay (especially after last nights game) or bring over Pekovic.
The real downside to keeping the CHA pick this year is that we are going to have to spread out those minutes and you really can’t have that many impact rookies in the same year…
As a Kings fan I have no stake in this one way or the other
But I’d rather have it now than later. The Wolves don’t have a lot of salary cap space this summer, and really won’t have much flexibility moving forward unless they deal Al Jefferson’s salary (or move another young player on the roster). If the draft yields quality talents in the teens, this is a team that needs talent everywhere. You can find quality players that help you with your pick, the Charlotte pick, and in the 2nd round. Whatever the case may be, the Wolves need greater talent across the board to be better aimed to compete in 2011 and beyond. The Kings have greatly improved their roster talent (or the impression of it I suppose) by getting Tyreke Evans. This is no doubt true. But, the roster also yielded good things by getting Omri Casspi with the 23rd pick (in the Ron Artest deal to Houston) and by trading the 31st pick to the Blazers for the 38th pick, Sergio Rodriguez and cash (2.9 million to be exact). I still think the deal made sense because the Kings weren’t financially sound enough to ignore 2.9 million in cash in what has been a tough draw for fans to come back to Arco. And namely missing out on DeJuan Blair happens to be something that may or may not work out. I think the Spurs took a good risk on him. I’m not sure it would have been wise for the Kings (or Wolves) to have done that.
I’m not the biggest Al J fan myself. I think the Wolves need interior defense and better talent at the 2. (I know that’s a hearty no duh.) I also think an upgrade at the 3 would work too.
If I were the Wolves, and ended up with the 2nd pick, I would have to consider a Derrick Favors over an Evan Turner given the Wolves need for size. On the other hand, Evan Turner could be the perfect player to pair with Jonny Flynn long term and give the Wolves the potent backcourt they need. I think mostly what’s missing for the Wolves is a franchise player (I don’t think anybody in the draft other than Tyreke Evans is going to end up being one—yes I’m biased) to build their foundation on. Whomever that player is the Wolves should take regardless of position. If the Wolves had the opportunity to take John Wall, you take him.
One guy I like, and think the Wolves should try to acquire, is Stanley Robinson from UConn. He’s the type of athlete that I think would thrive for the Wolves.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
"The Wolves don’t have a lot of salary cap space this summer"
I stopped reading there. Or I should have, because supporting Favors over Turner (based on wanting size of all things) is even worse. I don’t think drafting another 6’9" PF is the key to fixing the deficiencies of Love/Jefferson.
Sorry for being blunt, but it’d be nice if people would do their homework before offering their opinions about other peoples’ teams, especially when said homework is something as unambiguous as salary numbers. The Wolves are among the 7 teams with lots of cap space this offseason. The difference between the Wolves’ total 2010-11 salary and your Kings’ is less than $1 million.
Okay
They don’t have max cap space. Which means little in a Free Agent market with so many max FA guys available.
As far as Jefferson, I’d trade him for cap space, but he likely won’t fetch that. I didn’t say the Wolves HAD to take Favors over Turner. I said they had to CONSIDER it. The question really is Turner as good as people say he is, and you or I won’t decide this.
As far as being blunt, with what I’m used to doing (and dishing out) makes your criticisms seem absolutely pointless to me.
I do want to stress I’m neither a fan of Al Jefferson or any decision to build around him. I don’t think the Wolves should take any player to hide Al J’s weaknesses either. That’s stupid too. The Wolves have so many deficiencies, and I think the best option for them is clearly the draft. Just my opinion on that though.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
Let me apologize for John Doe
Basically, as you have just seen, if you type out an opinion that he disagrees with, he will tell you how blatantly wrong you are. Also, honest mistakes are not accepted around here, so consider his post your warning. ;-)
To the post though, I’d agree that Jefferson is no one to build a franchise around, and history would seem to agree with that. I do think he will fetch far more in return than salary cap or anything that Kevin Martin could have gotten. This could change very quickly if his injuries turn into the type of bad luck that Martin has had over the past few years. A big part of it is getting his form back to pre-injury (when he was widely recognized, right or wrong, as a great trade value). I don’t think Jefferson will be here if/when we manage to put together a championship squad, which would be all the more reason to consider a guy like Favors. Then again, our needs at the wings and a defensive minded big seem to be a lot more important right now than another PF (no matter how high his ceiling might be).
I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad idea to draft someone to cover up the other players’ weaknesses though. If we can find a guy who can cover Jefferson on the defensive end while Jefferson can cover him on the offensive end, it’s not a bad idea. Then again, it will take a very specific type of player to mesh perfectly with Jefferson, so who knows if that’ll ever happen. At the same time, it’s more important to draft for talent and a guy that could be a good piece on a contender than a guy who can make our (second?) best guy look less bad.
Well, I doubt Al J would fetch more than what Martin did. But that's me. (And I'm not an Al J fan. I'm also a Kevin Martin fanboy. I also think Carl Landry has a future with the Kings. So, you know, there ya go.)
I don’t know what Al Jefferson would fetch on the market, but he makes a bit more than Martin does. That does not help the Wolves moving forward if they want to move him at some point.
My original point was that the Wolves have A LOT of holes to fill. Therefore rather than thinking about only top picks in the draft, the thought behind my post was that the Wolves try to grab as many asset’s as possible and then mix & match the best one’s and trade the one’s you don’t think have as much value for pieces that fit with the players you keep. One of the best ways to get a quality lot of asset’s. I think, and believe, that any GM can pick in the middle to lower rounds of the draft and pluck players. It’s a matter of knowledge and belief of that particular GM.
As far as dissension, I don’t care. That’s actually a good thing and I certainly don’t mind disagreement. (I wouldn’t have lasted a week at Sactown Royalty if that was the case.) Therefore, there is no need to apologize. I like Hoopus not only for the analysis, but also because of the fan knowledge here. But in my opinion, the best Wolves centric blog on the net is Hoopus and I keep coming back for that reason. So, thanks for all the good conversations.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
I share your sentiment about Al
While I think he is a good player (not this week, but apparently he is playing through an injury… terrible idea, trade value or not), I agree that he has a lot of weaknesses to his game. Some that a player of his paygrade should not have. Or at least not have to his extent. He isn’t a particularly efficient offensive player, although he is extremely creative and it doesn’t seem to matter how many people are guarding him, his efficiency stays the same. I have a feeling he would really benefit from playing with a PG like Rubio, but in order to maximize this, he must learn to move better without the ball rather than just positioning himself for a postup.
As for Kevin Martin, not a fan of him for many of the same reasons as I am not a huge fan of Jefferson. I’m being a little harsh on both of them though, they are both great players, they just have faults. Martin is a very efficient scorer, but I tend to think he more than makes up for that on the defensive end. Add that to his injury problems in the past few years and his contract starts to look more and more scary. The biggest issue with me, and possibly with most of the GMs out there, is the injury issue. He seems to be made of glass and he doesn’t play a style that would reduce the risk. He plays similar to Maggette (although a better shot and passing and worse driving skills – Maggette is a tremendous driver) in terms of playing for contact, but Maggette is built like a brick shit house and Martin is built like Corey Brewer’s twin.
Why I think Jefferson’s trade value is slightly higher after all of that: less injury history, better at his best, younger, tremendous rebounder (when healthy… only slightly above average this year), and I would say he has a slightly higher ability to improve his weaknesses than Martin does. I’m basing the last one off of opinion and the fact that we have seen improvements in Al this year when he has finally had a coach who pushes him to improve his weaknesses.
As for Carl Landry, I really like him. Very efficient scorer who really throws his all into the game. Seems to be very tough and motivated. Needs to work on defense though. Lots of Rockets fans unhappy about losing Landry. That’s usually a good sign.
by Mplax on Feb 25, 2010 10:51 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Great points about Carl Landry all around.
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16
The main factor that is likely to have this pick protection go down to the wire
is the Bobcat’s road record. In short they are mediocre (7-20) with a symmetric home record (20-7).
"I was trying to focus on breathing," Milicic said. "I was just focusing on breathing so I didn’t die."
Relative Value of Different Draft Picks
In one of my favorite articles, Aaron Barzilai looked at the past production of the players taken at each pick position, and developed an effective tool for assessing the relative worth of a future pick.
Its an article well worth your time, but Figure 7 summarizes the results from many years of data pretty effectively. Barzilai determined the relative amount of production you would get from, say, a 15th pick compared to the production from the 1st pick.
Figure 7: Estimated value of drafting with a given draft pick
Draft Pick 1 Relative Value 100%
Draft Pick 2 Relative Value 92%
Draft Pick 3 Relative Value 87%
Draft Pick 4 Relative Value 83%
Draft Pick 5 Relative Value 78%
Draft Pick 6 Relative Value 74%
Draft Pick 7 Relative Value 70%
Draft Pick 8 Relative Value 66%
Draft Pick 9 Relative Value 63%
Draft Pick 10 Relative Value 59%
Draft Pick 11 Relative Value 56%
Draft Pick 12 Relative Value 53%
Draft Pick 13 Relative Value 50%
Draft Pick 14 Relative Value 47%
Draft Pick 15 Relative Value 45%
Draft Pick 16 Relative Value 42%
Now while two average #13 picks would produce roughly as much as the average #1 pick, this obviously doesn’t mean that you could swap them. The #1 guy could be on the floor with an additional player who is also producing. However, I think the numbers demonstrate that star players high in the draft can be much better than a pick only a few later. Is it better to get the #15 now, or wait (which is also a cost), for the chance at a better player? You be the judge.
Not yet having RTFA
I have to say I find that chart interesting and surprising in how much of a straight line it is.
My preference would be to get it this year. This team needs talent, and having a mid-first rounder this year could yield a player who helps, and is probably more useful in trade than a future protected pick would be.
Having it now gives you flexibility to use it yourself, trade it for a player, or probably convert it into a future pick if you think that’s best, as they did this past year with the Lawson deal.
by Eric in Madison on Feb 22, 2010 8:56 AM CST up reply actions
vaporware
There’s another good article floating around from 3-4 years ago, but I just can’t seem to find it on google. The authors made more of a judgement call, labelling all players as all-stars, good players, or neither and throwing up the percentages at each pick. It was pretty interesting, and showed the real allstars nearly always show up in the top 3-5 picks. If I remember correctly, top 10 was also a real dropoff point. There was also a “cursed” pick number in the top 10 that had never produced an allstar. This was an article with no stats, just the author’s judgements, but I remember it as being quite interesting. If anyone remembers or can find it, a link would be great.
Also at 82games.
That one is also at 82games, but was done by Roland Beech.
that supports my preference
for not winning too many games this year.
I want that 1-4 pick, I don’t think we find our #1 player in the 5-10 range and until we have him, that has to be our first priority. And we ain’t getting one through FA.
I hoping for this year
I’d like the option to package the pick with the Utah pick targeting a specific top 10 player. Or pairing it with cap room to grease a trade.
The bigger consideration is that the draft could get really deep this year. If things on the labor front continue to be scary, the idea of a lockout and new restrictions on the draft loom larger. I can’t believe that agents won’t be talking to borderline lotto guys like Henry, Whiteside, Ed Davis, Alabi etc. selling them on getting in before the lockout or some drastic pay cut takes effect in 2011. It could swell the mid first round a significant amount this year. If you’re Henry and faced with the late lotto this year or being locked out after the 2011 draft, then signing a reduced salary, what would you choose?
I'm hoping for this year
and there is exactly one reason for that: I’m impatient. It’s certainly possible we get a better pick in the future, and it’s possible it’s worse. I just see a lot of good defensive bigs, and a guy like Xavier Henry who’s stock has dropped enough to possibly be available at 14 or whatever, if he comes out. But like I said, none of us know if the pick will increase or decrease in value in the coming years. I just know I’d love to watch a team stacked with young talent next year, and have a good idea of who the true “core” is going forward.
"Pinch-bunters don't have a ton of value, even with the Twins"
by Steven Ellingson on Feb 22, 2010 12:08 PM CST reply actions
CHA in the lottery later tonight?
MIL won tonight, and the Bobcats are woeful on the road (7-20). they take on LAC, who’s 15-12 at home.
Since MIL owns the tie-breaker, CHA could be the #9 seed in the Eastern Conference by night’s end.
CHA lost tonight....
I guess they really don’t have to be in the playoffs. Come on now!
by GHACAN BLACKSTAR on Feb 23, 2010 1:23 AM CST up reply actions
Morey on the Draft
It was interesting to hear Darryl Morey on the BS Report yesterday. He said that he expected this draft to be really strong with a lot of players leaving because of the uncertainty of the CBA. He also expects the 2011 draft to be really weak, especially if there is a lockout, as not many players will want to leave college only to take a full year off. He then expects 2012 to be very strong again.
It would be nice to get the Charlotte pick this year, and then give up our pick to the Clippers next year. We’ll see!
That's about the only way
I will derive any satisfaction from the Jaric trade.
Wouldn’t it be the perfect occurrence to fully capture the change in this team’s fortune? First, we win the draft or improve our positioning. Second, we give the Clippers our first in perhaps the worst draft year in recent memory. And then third, Ricky comes over the next year and we become this year’s Thunder.
KAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Growing my own "Darko-stache" since last Monday.
by biggity2bit on Feb 23, 2010 11:29 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Like this scenario
especially the part about the Clippers getting the pick in 2011. That means about a 35 win season…and hope.
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