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Hollinger Article on Plus/Minus

 

http://insider.espn.go.com/insider/insider/news/story?id=4946751

 

The Whole Argument is summed up nicely here-

"Some insiders like the stat because it accounts for factors -- quality D, effective screens -- that don't show up in box scores. Others, like Nuggets stats guru Dean Oliver, say, "It's noisy, uncertain and kind of a black box -- you have a hard time understanding why it's coming out the way it is."

The stat is also much better at assessing a player's value to a particular team than comparing him across teams. For example, it can reveal Wade's value to the Heat, but not whether he'd be more valuable than LeBron James is to the Cavs. It also doesn't factor in substitution patterns. The Thunder's Jeff Green has a league-worst minus-13.6 rating, which doesn't take into account that he's often the lone starter running with four bench players and he's logged twice as many minutes without Kevin Durant or Russell Westbrook as last season, when his rating was minus-3.51."

 

A few tidbits

 

Jonny Flynn, Ryan Hollins, Al Jefferson, Corey Brewer, and Ryan Gomes make up by far the worst 5 man unit in the entire league at -21.70 per 48 minutes.  The next worse group is Brook Lopez, Chris Douglas-Roberts, Courtney Lee, Devin Harris, and Yi at -13.85 per 48 minutes.

 

The three players who benefit their team from being on the floor: D.Wade, Anderson Varejao, and Kobe Bryant

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Nice. Whatever you think of plus/minus

It’s pretty satisfying to know that the Wolves FREAKING STARTING LINEUP is the worst unit in the league.

Where’s the lighter fluid?

by Eric in Madison on Feb 26, 2010 9:25 AM CST reply actions  

Stop!

"I was trying to focus on breathing," Milicic said. "I was just focusing on breathing so I didn’t die."

by Auswolf on Feb 26, 2010 2:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Use Petrol.

"I was trying to focus on breathing," Milicic said. "I was just focusing on breathing so I didn’t die."

by Auswolf on Feb 26, 2010 2:37 PM CST up reply actions  

lets look at on court/off court for those 5 players...Net = on court minus off court

Net on court minus off court…

Gomes Plus 5.7
Jefferson Plus 2.3 [fighting injury most of year]
Brewer – Minus 0.9
Flynn – Minus 7.5
Hollins – Minus 9.8

if this were a team focused on winning….these three would be in the starting line up.

Love plus 6.8
Sessions plus 5.3
Ellington plus 3.6

So starting line up

Jefferson
Love
Gomes
Ellington
Sessions

If you look at our best 5 man line up… thats what its been…..

by Kevin Love Jefferson on Feb 26, 2010 9:43 AM CST reply actions  

Great--

Our best 5 man line up is comprised of one guy (Love) who represents a cost-effective, young player. Sessions is believed to have been brought in as a back-up/trade asset, W’Ellington is a bench player whom we hope to replace with a veteran, Gomes is hopefully gone, and as for Jefferson . . . well, we haven’t really covered how we all feel about him yet.

by PoorDick on Feb 26, 2010 10:13 AM CST up reply actions  

+.0314159

Sounds like a great idea for a fanpost…

by Rumblebee on Feb 26, 2010 3:05 PM CST up reply actions  

If only we had someone

who would make us a gratuitous amount of fanposts dedicated to Al Jefferson’s domination on the interior…

by Mplax on Feb 26, 2010 4:35 PM CST up reply actions  

What you always have to keep in mind that plus/minus doesn’t account for how good the opponent’s playing 5 are. You could say that starting always means more minutes against quality players since at least the start of the game is against the opponents best time.
Ending a game is the same.

I think as that grows we could see some kind of combination of plus minus combined with the average per of the opposing player at the same position or even the average per of the opposing 5 while on the court …

Who’s feeling bored!

Official Kahn/Rambis band-wagon rider since 2009

by Wim (Belgium) on Feb 28, 2010 4:26 PM CST up reply actions  

The problem with +/- is

take any current Wolf, put him on a team with LeBron and Deron Williams, and their +/- will skyrocket. It’s a good tool when used the right way, but far from perfect. It also does a poor job of evaluating a player who is in the wrong system for his game (say Flynn perhaps).

by Rumblebee on Feb 26, 2010 3:08 PM CST reply actions  

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