Even More Drunken Action
From the Strib:
Minnesota Timberwolves basketball player Al Jefferson was arrested and booked into jail early this morning for allegedly driving drunk, according to jail records.
Jefferson was arrested by the State Patrol at 1:08 a.m., and was brought to the Hennepin County Jail shorty after 2 a.m., according to the State Patrol and jail records. He was released at 3:19 a.m.
Jefferson was arrested on a charge of fourth degree driving while impaired, said State Patrol Lt. Eric Roeske.
Jefferson initially was pulled over for speeding as he left downtown Minneapolis, heading west on 394. He was clocked going 56 mph in a 40-mph zone, Roeske said.
...
Roeske said a field sobriety test led to Jefferson's arrest. A blood test was administered and the results are pending a Bureau of Criminal Apprehension analysis, Roeske said.
Jefferson is scheduled for a court appearance on April 23.
We obviously don't have all of the information about this case (the blood alcohol level would be nice to have) but it appears that the Wolves' highest paid and most visible player was out driving under the influence last night. Maybe he didn't see this jersey hanging from the rafters:

Just so there's no confusion going forward, this particular website has zero f'ing tolerance for people who get drunk and then get behind the wheel. Zero. They're called cabs, taxis, trains, and buses. Use them..
I'm sure there will be more to follow.
PS: Here's hoping it's something else.
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If we look at the headlines lately
it’s 100% fitting.
Cheers!
The Charles Barkley 2009/10 Ancestors Count: 9 Grandmothers, 2 Mothers Alltime: Reg. 32-2 Playoffs 7-0
"There were arms coming from everywhere, and I knew they weren’t going for the ball," Miller said. "I was just trying to get [the shot] up before they called some crap like ‘on the ground.’ "
"What do you want me to do?" Wright asked. "Do you want me to Derek Fisher him?"
"Give them some fucking credit, i mean for real." Jackson said.
"I just fell on my face for no reason," Bryant deadpanned. "I'm a klutz."
"Fucking right i'm preachin' it!" Carlisle replied. He later added "We need to not always make hard work out of sex." Take cover whenever he pulls the undoing-card..
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Sheed for $30k: "They've got to know that he's a [darn] flopper. That's all Turkododo do."
"Ball." Hedo Turkoglu
Charles Barkley on the Eastern Conference race: "Cleveland and Orlando are the two best teams in the East. The Boston Celtics, people keep waiting on them to get healthy. I mean no disrespect, but old people don’t get healthy. They die."
Mutombo, Ewing and Yao at the restaurant...
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YAO: " Leave your car keys here and run home. I'll give you the keys tomorrow."
The last straw
I hope he gets traded. Asap. I’ve had it.
Official Kahn/Rambis band-wagon rider since 2009
Stupid
Just stupid, me and a friend were joking around after we left the game last night and wondered what the players would do later on that night after losing 12 straight. He answered they are just going to party hard and not care. obvouisly some of it he got right.
sure glad we didn't trade for Tyrus Thomas and his bad attitude
better to have a guy who openly pouts during games when he doesn’t get the ball, chooses not to play defense, and gets a DWI.
Hate to upset the applecart on this miserable team. Thanks Kahn!
by Son of Gerald Green on Feb 28, 2010 1:07 PM CST reply actions
To be fair
As far as I can tell, this isn’t something anyone saw coming. This is damaging and change-worthy stuff, but Kahn couldn’t have predicted the future of Al’s actions. Maybe if he had, he would have traded him earlier. Maybe not. I’m interested to see how all parties involved handle this.
by nja700 on Feb 28, 2010 1:43 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
But you have to admit...
That there were a lot of people pulling for his trade BEFORE the deadline including myself.
BetterLaettner
by BetterLaettnerThanRider on Feb 28, 2010 5:23 PM CST up reply actions
I disagree
Keeping Al on this team this year was flawed from the start. He’s in his prime, coming off major knee surgery, from which he worked his arse off to recover. How did we treat him? We traded away the two most complimentary pieces for someone who is not going to play until 2011 or 2012, and team him up with Love, who is about the least complimentary front line pairing with Jefferson that you could imagine.
Maybe no one could anticipate a run in with the law, but something was going to snap this year for Jefferson if we didn’t take immediate steps towards the playoffs this year.
I don’t disagree with anything the Wolves did in re-rebuilding because the Foye-Jefferson duo was vastly underwhelming, and Kevin Love is flat out an all-around better player. But as I noted several weeks ago when I wrote an article pushing for a move to the Bulls, I would be absolutely shocked if Jefferson didn’t want out of here. To think otherwise would assume that he lacks any competitive drive what so ever. It’s BS – when Jefferson says in the paper, “I’m glad I’m not going to Chicago,” I would have loved to hear the inflection in his voice. He’s been moping for weeks.
And the fact is we could have had two nice pieces in Deng and Thomas that would have filled wholes that we have that we will probably not fill in the draft or free agency. Or we could have easily went after Kevin Martin, who would finally give us a solid two scorer. Yes, there was a good reason to wait until summer with Al, but it was a very close call, and it already looks like this is going to bite us.
If his value was not already veering toward Zach Randolph (traded for expirings last summer), it certainly is now.
Oh, and Jonny Flynn should have been a 15-20 pick. Every day the Flynn-Curry debacle is looking even WORSE than Roy-Foye. An “F” for Kahn on that pick.
Meet your new boss Wolves fans, same as the old.
Good points across the board
but I don’t know if I can buy into this one being worse than the Roy/Foye deal.
The only problem with keeping Al, is that trading him is flawed at this point as well… His value is so low and by all means it should go up (doesn’t mean it will, but it should). Hopefully Kahn had the right idea by holding on to him and hopefully his value will go up if he looks good after a few days rest from the suspension. And hopefully he will have something to prove again. To the MN fans this time though, not the allstar fan voters…
Sad
I hope he can get his act together next year (cough so his trade value goes up cough), maybe once his injury is fully healed.
On a side note: there’s a 40 MPH zone on 394????
I think it's right outside of the arena
Before it merges with the traffic coming from 94 E and W. There’s not a lot of room to get to that speed. I don’t know what that means.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Feb 28, 2010 1:27 PM CST up reply actions
Judge not lest ye be judged?
Or something like that. I’ll cut the guy some slack. Yes it was a terrible decision and I hope he gets fined quite heftily for it by the team, but it doesn’t make him a bad person. It makes him a dumb person of course, but not a bad person. As much as I rag on Jefferson here, he really is a good guy and he will probably learn from his mistake.
Also, basketball really isn’t the issue here. Him being a basketball player doesn’t make what he did any worse than if a teacher or doctor had done it. His trade value shouldn’t be a factor in how we judge an action like this.
RIP Malik. Much respect.
+1
As someone who has known multiple people be arrested for DWI with no harm to others, it’s obviously a big mistake but not one that speaks volumes about them. I’m sure Taylor had something to say to Jefferson about Sealy. This isn’t an Eddie Griffin situation.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Feb 28, 2010 8:29 PM CST up reply actions
I'd be very surprised
if Sealy isn’t mentioned in Jefferson’s “formal apology”
What, show some restraint and perspective?
You realize this is a sports board, right?
Justice is proportionate. Al Jefferson just got charged with a 4th degree DUI, which is the lowest grade for the offense having no “aggravating factors.” I know the team has a history, Malik Sealy was a good guy, and all that, but…. Again, any real system of justice is not somehow going to damn the guy’s character over one offense of this sort.
It’s only us knuckleheads in internetland who can’t wait to do that.
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
I'm afraid
that I have little to no idea what you are trying to say.
Probably was gone before this.
Wolves will have to cut their losses, hopefully at least getting a good complementary player to their line up when/if the trade transpires. But the heady days of getting a Bynum or A’m’a’r’e’’ straight up, pardon the poor pun, are long gone.
"Never make predictions, especially about the future." Casey Stengel
No field breathilizer?
The only thing worse than this is if he found to have drugs in his system….
"I was trying to focus on breathing," Milicic said. "I was just focusing on breathing so I didn’t die."
by Auswolf on Feb 28, 2010 2:28 PM CST via mobile reply actions
A preliminary field test not admissible in court, or even necessarily accurate.
If he did a field preliminary breath test, it was in all likelihood over .08 (the legal limit) if they arrested him. The ESPN article indicates the cop told KARE 11 or something that he couldn’t reveal the number, but it was over .08. (It wasn’t over .20, or he would have been arrested for a gross misdemeanor/3rd degree DWI).
Even if the blood test comes out lower than .08, he could technically be charged with DWI “impaired” as opposed to DWI “BAC over .08”, but in all likelihood then he’d just get a careless driving (as would basically anyone else with that kind of charge in Mpls).
Thank you
It’s so rare to have someone who knows something about the potential charges chime in.
Again, justice by its nature has to be proportionate. The guy’s apparently being charged with a 4th degree DUI, meaning no “aggravating factors” like the higher BA level. We need to be glad nobody got hurt, not indignant when we know the tiniest bit about the situation….
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
That's what I first thought
Maybe he refused the breathilizer and is on some sort of painkiller for his knee.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Feb 28, 2010 2:38 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
SO what is the penalty for being over 0.08?
"I was trying to focus on breathing," Milicic said. "I was just focusing on breathing so I didn’t die."
It is hard to determine what the ultimate outcome would be until all the information is in...
but the standard “offer” in the city of Minneapolis for a first time DWI with a BAC over .08 but below .20 (with no accident and no egregious conduct towards the cops, etc.) would be 30 days in jail, but 27 of them stayed (or suspended) for 2 years, on the agreement that you’d have no same or similar offenses.
The remaining days would be done on what’s called sentence-to-service or “STS” (it’s like a the work crew… you may have seen them on the highways? they do many different things though), less any time served in jail. If a person gets arrrested—even for an hour—and released, he’d have on day of jail credit. Someone like Al might get community service instead of STS. A person would also have to pay a fine and complete the one-day Hennepin County DWI program. (It’s like a 10-12 hr. long day).
Weird...
…in Anoka County all 30 days are stayed for a first offense where the offender pleads guilty at arraignment.
He didn't refuse anything the law requires him to take...
if he took a blood test. The MN state patrol (and any cops coming to the Hennepin County Jail) now does blood tests (or occasionally urine), b/c there’s extensive litigation pending over the validity of the “intoxylizer” (which was the standard for a long time). Blood tests are also the most accurate. The results just aren’t immediate.
I guess they could attempt to make something out of alcohol + any painkillers as an argument that he was driving while impaired but, based on the time from booking to release, I am guessing it was just a standard blood draw and the ultimate charge will just be alcohol-related DWI.
Message to the Al Defenders
I understand the comments about not don’t judge others, none of us our perfect, regarding the DWI
I also understand that any shot on this board at David Kahn is going to met swiftly with a variation of “leave Kahn alone”. This for a 14-47 team that’s losing in double digits, took Flynn over Curry, and may or may not get Rubio over here in 3 years. I don’t know why this is the case or what Kahn has done to generate such strong defenders, but I’ve gotten used to it and it’s my choice to post on this board.
What I don’t understand is the “Jefferson is a good guy” sentiment. How do you know that? I know that he chooses not to play defense, he negatively reacts when he doesn’t get the ball when he thinks he’s open (while the play is in motion!), it was rumored that he was jealous of K. Love earlier in the year (I have no idea if this is true), the offense comes to a standstill when he’s got the ball in the paint. All of these things are of his choosing.
He plays the same position on Kevin Love. We’ve all known this now for 2 years. Kahn had a chance to make a move before the deadline and he didn’t, saying he wanted to evaluate the team for a full year before making any major moves. How much more evaluating needs to be done?
Our team is averaging 27 wins a year for the past 4 years. Right now we’ll be lucky to make it to 20. Everyone is responsible, Taylor, Kahn, Rambis, players, and fans if we keep accepting dreadful play then that’s what we’ll get and what we deserve.
by Son of Gerald Green on Feb 28, 2010 2:45 PM CST reply actions
So did Kahn get him drunk?
Surely this is has to be judged separately from all the other woes.
"I was trying to focus on breathing," Milicic said. "I was just focusing on breathing so I didn’t die."
Like Auswolf
I really don’t get what connection you are trying to make here.
I really don’t think failure to play defense or him creating his own offense has anything to do with him as a person. The rumor of him being jealous of Love was shot down within a day or two of the rumor coming out. And Al is hardly the only guy who would complain about not getting the ball when he has the likes of Pavs jacking up shots left and right, for one example.
This team has been a lot more competitive since late December. Obviously they are not a good team and that is why they lose, often times by double digits. But we are no longer seeing a 40ish point blowout by GS. We had a 4 game win streak. It’s a heavy burden for Kahn if you expected him to come in here and turn a crappy franchise with no future into a great franchise with no future. He cleared guys like Miller and Foye, who would both have been up for new deals, for an extra pick. Kahn thought he was going to get Evans or Harden, but Rubio fell to him and he had no other choice. Regardless, it can’t be judged whether it was right or wrong yet as we have not seen the outcome, but every single GM in the league would have taken Rubio at that point (disclaimer, there is a .01% chance this isn’t true). He handled the situation with Rubio about as well as he could have after the draft.
He traded away 2 picks this year to invest in the future. It’s more likely that those turn out than whatever would have happened this year. It would have been nice to take someone besides Flynn and hold on to Lawson, but it’ll probably be a wash in the long run and really can’t be judged accurately quite yet.
As for the deadline, Jefferson’s trade value was pretty low. In all likelihood it should and hopefully will go up from here as he gets healthier. I’m not saying Kahn has done a perfect or even a good job so far, but I do think it’s tough to judge his actions yet as we have not seen the outcome.
It’s absolutely not Kahn’s fault that the team is averaging 27 wins over the past 4 years and there are also very few current players who are responsible for it. No body is accepting dreadful play, we all recognize that the Wolves are terrible. Doesn’t mean we can’t enjoy the team and keep our hopes up for improvement.
Hope this effectively responded to what you were saying, but like I said I really don’t know what you were trying to get at so sorry if it doesn’t.
Agreed
And furthermore, I don’t think this site has given Kahn a pass on picking Flynn over Curry at all.
One thing I will agree with SoGG on is that we shouldn’t assume that Jefferson is a good guy. I don’t know whether I speak for all Minnesotans, but Kirby Puckett forever removed sports heroes from my life. I appreciate good playing on the court/field. I do not assume it represents a player’s behavior off of it.
I'm not saying he is definitely a great guy
but I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt. This is really his first true slip-up and I think he deserves a second chance.
I get your point.
I agree that just because he made one serious mistake doesn’t mean he’s a horrible person.
I’m actually talking about the flip side: no matter how much great play and charitable behavior I’m allowed to observe, I never assume that a player is a good person because of it. You know what they want you to know, until they can’t control the message anymore (I’m looking at you, Tiger).
Haha hey now! Let's not start relating the Timberwovles to Tiger Woods!
The national media might pick that up! But no it is a good point. But at the same time I don’t want to stereotype the entire profession (not saying you are) by saying he doesn’t deserve a chance because the other guy we gave a chance to ruined it for him.
I’m very interested to hear his apology. Not to hear what he says per se, but how he says it. I thought Tiger’s speech was terrible and he didn’t show any emotion beyond how he construed what his PR guy told him to do (seems like he was told to look solemn and Tiger took that a few levels too far… solemn, not devoid of all emotion).
Or Tim "not so good and" Pawlenty
"Never make predictions, especially about the future." Casey Stengel
Who's saying he's a good guy?
Most of the “Al Defenders” that you cite just defend against people saying he’s not a good guy. None of us know either way. Transferring on-court demeanor with off-court personality is extremely shortsighted.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Feb 28, 2010 8:34 PM CST up reply actions
I know we all make mistakes,
but this is unacceptable considering the past history with drunk driving not only Sealy but Eddie G. as well.
It is also the first law problem the team has had while Kahn is in charge. I’m interested in what kind of punishment Kahn gives to Al.
by Bad News Wolves on Feb 28, 2010 3:43 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Unacceptable? Definitely
But two specific people are not the reason why.
Jefferson isn’t responsible for the actions that led to that and IMO he shouldn’t be held to a higher standard because of that. As an example of just how completely stupid it is and what his idiotic actions could have done, for sure. But saying that he shouldn’t have done it because Malik Sealy died just seems to give other guys a free ride who haven’t had that happen to their franchise while ignoring the very large number of non-professional athletes who have become victims. I guess to summarize my rambling point, would it be any different if he had done this while in Boston?
I don't give anyone a free pass on DUI's
However yes Al Jefferson getting a DUI is a bigger deal than a non professional athlete. Right or wrong athletes are considered hero’s by many and have more responsibility than the average person. To quote spiderman “with great power comes great responsibility”.
Also team history does mean something. I see Al’s DUI as an insult to sealy, Eddie G., as well as many other non athletes.
by Bad News Wolves on Feb 28, 2010 4:15 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Ok
I would just rather have sober teachers than athletes. To each their own.
So Malik Sealy’s life means more to you than all the other people that have ever died from a drunk driver combined? I think all of Boston might disagree with you.
No
it’s not like people don’t die in Minnesota from drunk drivers too.
I’m not saying sealy’s life is more important than anyone else’s but he is a fairly important part of the teams history and Al showed a lack of respect for sealy, Eddie G. and many others that have been affected by drunk drivers.
by Bad News Wolves on Feb 28, 2010 4:45 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Unfortunately
Minnesota ranks among the top states for DUIs in the nation. A dubious distinction.
"Never make predictions, especially about the future." Casey Stengel
The Strib has a really sobering..
…site on the subject:
http://www.startribune.com/projects/82069027.html
I think I heard something a week or two ago that there are more than DWI 100 arrests/day in Minnesota.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
per day? arrests?
I seriously hope you’re mistaken (no offense) because that is a TON (even assuming most of those occur Thursday-Saturday)
Nope, he's right on
In 2006, there were ~42000 arrests for DWI. That’s ~115 a day.
I worked in an ER for
2 years and we would reserve a specific room just for when the police would come in and need a legal blood draw, it was pretty common to see 3-4 drivers per night come in with the police to have their blood drawn and that is just one Twin Cities Hospital. It was very alarming how common it was.
If that is how many arrests there are
just think how many drivers are operating their vehicles impaired.
If anything good comes out of this, besides a trade, Al might be able to parlay his community service into a positive effect on some kids or other drivers affected. It’s a sad part of American culture, so reaching out to youth might be the most effective way to change prevalent attitudes.
"Never make predictions, especially about the future." Casey Stengel
Any crime stat
is subject to variation with levels of enforcement as well as with the rate of the crime itself. If Minnesota takes DUI more seriously than, say, Oklahoma, then the rate of arrests increases.
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
Been hoping someone else besides me
was thinking the same thing. We have officers in this state who basically dedicate themselves to getting drunk drivers, not sure all states have the same policy.
Another issue is our lack of convenient public transit. A large segment of the population of NYC or Chicago can get on the subway or El, get drunk and get home without getting in a car. The suburb I live in doesn’t even allow corner bars, which unfortunately just gets people in their cars.
Actually that is one of my favorite arguments for transit
“Drink driving,” as the British call it, never made my radar during a half-year living there. Admittedly I wasn’t probably seeing the same news sources as a normal citizen, but I know for a fact drinking to a state of blotto -ness in public was more prevalent in London than anywhere else I’ve lived.
I never saw or heard of a drunk driver there. You could take the train home with your group of friends. Maybe that’s just my perception? I don’t have time to dig for numbers right now.
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
I'm just saying
that his actions shouldn’t be punished any more (and they should be punished extremely harshly) because of Sealy. It’s not disrespecting Sealy. It’s only disrespecting everyone else who has died by doing so by putting Sealy on a higher level.
Driving drunk is a terrible thing to do, but it was terrible before that ever happened to Sealy.
I view it as a little bit more
This is like getting caught with a gun charge on a team that changed its name from the Bullets. The worst thing in franchise history was a guy on the team getting killed by a drunk driver. It should never, ever, ever happen with this franchise and while I agree that he should be given no special treatment under the law, he has another group of people to answer to that will likely be (should be) much less forgiving.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
I should say..
…this isn’t to say that he shouldn’t be forgiven, just that the history of this franchise makes it more necessary, in my opinion, for him to be VERY out front about this and to do a lot of community work above and beyond what he will be sentenced to.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
I agree to that
and if I was Kahn, I would put the hammer down on it. That said though, I don’t think we are allowed to judge him any differently just because of Sealy. Back to what I said before, it’s disrespectful to others to only take Sealy into account far more than it is disrespectful to Sealy to take everyone into account. I hope that makes sense…
As far as Al the public figure, I think his actions will be very telling. If I were in his position, I would be doing everything I could to let the community know that I want their respect back and I know I have to earn it. Again though, not because of Sealy (and again again, I have all the respect in the world for Sealy, I don’t want this to come off as me not caring about what happened to him), but because what he did was downright stupid.
Same as the Bullets thing. It’s a stupid thing to do regardless of where you are. The franchise has every right in the world to punish you to whatever extent they deem necessary. But I don’t think it is realistic to expect the players to act differently because of something they probably know little to nothing about. My opinion might be different if every player was given a long lesson on the history of the franchise they are playing for and events (such as the Bullet-deal and Sealy) that make certain ideals more important to Franchise X than Franchise Y. But at the same time, the people you don’t hear about are just as important as the people you do. And I feel as if fans ignoring the nameless in favor of Sealy is shortsighted and [inadvertantly] disrespectful.
Again, I don’t want this to sound as if I am blaming people or calling someone out for being disrespectful. I’m just saying this is how I see it and why I don’t think we can blame him as a person any more than anyone else. Like I said before, I would rather have drunk athletes than drunk teachers as far as role models go.
I hate to disagree
but I do, though I understand your sentiments. Expecting a young person to relate to something that happened when they were a teenager, living in another state, is not realistic (this applies to Jefferson/Sealy, and I think Arenas). Would you expect a teenager in MN today to be influenced 10 years from now by something that happened in NY today?
Also, what is the statute of limitations for a team on issues like this. Should Yankee baseball players be tea-totallers because Babe Ruth and Mickey Mantle were notorious boozers who shortened their lives by their lifestyle. Should the Yankees ban players from being pilots because Thurmon Munson died flying an airplane.
I have no problem with the criticism of Jefferson, but holding him to a different standard because of Malik Sealy is hard to swallow. We all know people who have died in alcohol related crashes…yet people continue to drink and drive. BTW, for every person busted, about 9 are just lucky a cop hasn’t gotten them.
I think we can all agree on this
Al Jefferson should definitely not get a pilots license!
I would also be interested in knowing what the TWolves have in place
to help players if they are out drinking. After all, Sealy was here and died while Taylor owned the team. Jefferson was apparently drinking near Target Center (based on where he was arrested). Do they have drivers in Town Cars stationed around DT MPLS after games? They should, other teams do. If they don’t, people should ask why not.
That's actually a really good idea
Especially on weekend games.
I was thinking the same thing. Just ring up a limo when they go out.
Al probably thought he was fine to drive, which was apparently not the case. A stand-by limo would solve these issues.
"Never make predictions, especially about the future." Casey Stengel
I work at a Warehouse district uber-popular restaurant
And I can attest that there are, in fact, a TON of cabs, towncars, limo’s, and on demand people who will come and take you home if you’ve drunk too much. It’s actually pretty amazing. We have at least a few parties each night that take cabs or call one of these services – it’s quite heartening actually to see people having a good time and taking responsibility for it when it comes time to get home. This option is out there, readily available and prompt/discreet/professional and literally on call whenever. The failure to make use of it is either one of ignorance or negligence, and I hope that in Al’s case it is the former.
Growing my own "Darko-stache" since last Monday.
Yes
but we are talking about a Timberwolves-employed service. It would go beyond convincing players (who probably don’t want to get a cab) and into a new area of team-responsibility. Soeone brought up that it would show that the team is ok with its players getting drunk… but really it’s something that should be done and I don’t think it would be taken like this. It’s more of a precautionary thing than an excuse for the players. Then again, when you are away from your job (which is kind of a dicey line for athletes), you really can drink all you want as long as you don’t break other contractual areas (which I would assume doesn’t include drinking?). If it affects your performance, you will get a sizable paycut (unfortunately not until their next contract).
But I do think it’s dumb either way that he didn’t take care of it himself. The organization isn’t responsible for him and shouldn’t have to be. It would just be a nice thing to see and I think it would go a long way in placating the fan base if they started something like this. The alternatives are out there aplenty and he should have figured one of them out.
I think the Wolves stance will be
that the players should be resting/icing/recovering from the game and preparing for practice/meetings the next day and therefore they weren’t aware players were out drinking. Its a great idea if the teams could offer some sort of transportation, but I don’t think they want player to think that they are in favor of the parying/drinking.
I usually don't make requests of other posters
but would you mind changing your profile picture? Mine’s bad, too, but at least it’s me (though that is not the issue either).
"Never make predictions, especially about the future." Casey Stengel
i'm assuming you meant me
i’ll do it in a second, I just put this one up earlier for different posts when the question was whether it was Big Al or a different Al, just wanted to show that the police did in fact have Big Al when they took the picture
theal, yes, thanks
I normally would not make such a request. But seeing Al’s mug shot, literally in the case, seems strange for a CHer profile pic.
Thanks!
"Never make predictions, especially about the future." Casey Stengel
No problem
in a different thread before this thread I just put it up and did a
“-————> Big Al’s mugshot” post and then I guess I got drawn into all the discussion and didn’t change it back quick enough. I totally understand asking me to change it, it wasn’t gonna be permanent.
Oh, understood about why it's there too.
Thanks.
"Never make predictions, especially about the future." Casey Stengel
Sigh...so much for the
“we may suck, but at least all of our players are high character guys” angle…I’ll now consent to an Al Jefferson for Joakim Noah and a bag of peanuts trade
Sorry Tim Allen
You’re going to be shocked when there isn’t value anywhere close to that. It was either trade Al’s awful contract for Deng’s awful contract or Martin’s awful contract. And now to get any value for Al, and someone to take the contract on the eve of a new CBA, it’s going to cost the number 1 or Rubio.
I agree
Everyone else in the league can see he doesn’t play defense too. We’ll get another gifted but flawed player in return. But at this point that’s fine.
Unless this is a pattern, I doubt the DUI has a big impact.
Someone earlier mentioned Bynum or Amare as the “golden days” of Big Al offers…but both players have significant flaws just like Al. I wouldn’t want either one on the team, though I’d consider Bynum.
I’d MUCH prefer Noah…but after this year his value has gone up substantially. Again, half the GMs out there are actually smart and understand the nuances of the game – they see what we see. Unless we can unload Al on some GM who swims in the kiddie pool I don’t think we’ll get much…if we can trade him at all.
Hmm…anyone got Dunleavy’s number?
I posted the "heady days" comment
I’m no fan of Amare. The point was intended to be illustrative, suggesting what in the past the Wolves perhaps could have gotten for Al. Again, at this juncture it will be cutting losses, so hopefully they can at least get a player who will complement the rest of the roster in a way that adds maximum value.
"Never make predictions, especially about the future." Casey Stengel
Kahn suspended Jefferson 2 games without pay
by Eric in Madison on Feb 28, 2010 5:03 PM CST reply actions
I'm assuming that pay is going to a good cause
hope
"Never make predictions, especially about the future." Casey Stengel
nostradamus is alive
drunken posts lead to drunken wolf
Why do I feel guilty now?
Perhaps our horsing around so much then having this happen. Not that I truly believe our posting had some karmic effect on what transpired (for if we did have that power, you know what everyone would be posting). At least nobody was hurt and hopefully Al will learn his lesson.
"Never make predictions, especially about the future." Casey Stengel
Of course we don't
otherwise the franchise would have moved to one of the Koreas by now.
If that were the case,
SnP could do the commentary or play by play, in Korean. I would pay good money for that. And regardless of win or loss, every night would be Korean recipes.
"Never make predictions, especially about the future." Casey Stengel
If our posts had karmic value
than the Wolves would have won 6 championships by now
BetterLaettner
by BetterLaettnerThanRider on Feb 28, 2010 7:53 PM CST up reply actions
ugh
If I’ve had anything to drink, I don’t drive. That’s definitely the best way to go. It’s just not worth it. Either plan ahead or skip the beer/wine/liquor. If that’s too much to ask, you should probably evaluate yourself a bit. And I love me some alcohol. Just be smart.
Hopefully Al learns from this. But don’t judge someone from one bad decision like this one.
How do fans feel...
about athletes driving 100+ MPH on the freeways?
Adrian Peterson and Bernard Berrian were both ticketed in the same week, going over 100 on the Twin Cities highways.
LeBron was ticketed at 101 (who knows what his top speed actually was) on his 23rd Birthday.
I’m not sure which is more dangerous, but the stigma attached to drunk driving brings out the judgments of everybody, while the Nascar-style commuting of Peterson and King James gets laughed off by most people.
If I had to bet on which is more likely to cause a fatal accident between Jefferson driving 56 mph on 394 after one too many cold ones, or Peterson soberly driving 109 mph on the windy, busy Highway 62, I’d probably vote on the latter.
It doesn’t make either of them right, but the drinking aspect brings out a whole ’nother level of criticism, when reckless driving, generally speaking, is a common habit amongst pro athletes, even around here.
Let’s hope this is Al’s first, and last, slip-up with the law.
by Andy G on Feb 28, 2010 5:37 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I still don't understand how AP could drive 100+ mph
on Crosstown on a Saturday night. I’m lucky to get above 20 with all the traffic on that thing.
Very good point
If people drove 100+ MPH as often as people drive legally intoxicated, the mortality rate from the excessive drivers would be much higher.
I don't know if 'Stigma' is the right word.
I don’t know that there is anything like a stigma surrounding drunk driving. Alcohol related accidents are the number 1 cause of all motor vehicle related deaths. That’s no stigma. If you drive drunk, you are being an extremely dangerous idiot. No ifs ands or buts.
Driving recklessly, like the people you mention, is also dangerous and stupid… and those infractions should result in stiff consequences. But, I don’t quite hold that on par as getting drunk and then getting behind the most dangerous weapon possible.
by Krotz the Wall on Mar 1, 2010 9:30 AM CST up reply actions
Stigma
“a mark of disgrace or infamy; a stain or reproach, as on one’s reputation.”
That’s the definition I found online.
If Al was driving at .12, slightly over the legal limit, at 56 mph on 394, my own opinion is that he was less reckless than Adrian Peterson doing 109 on Highway 62.
Whose reputation will suffer more damage? Jefferson’s, and it’s not close.
That’s all I meant.
Yes, you used the word correctly.
I wasn’t questioning that you used the word right, or that it applies. But, I was pointing out that the word ‘stigma’ is most commonly used today to signify something that gets more negative attention that it might deserve. I was simply stating that a person can’t make that argument about drunk driving. You drive drunk and that should weigh on your reputation.
Yes, Al got ticketed going 16 mph over the speed limit, while intoxicated. What if he hadn’t been caught just coming onto the freeway, as that is just at the start of 394… so coming out of a pedestrian heavy area? Yes, 109 is idiotic and dangerous. Drunk driving, statistically, more likely to cause death or severe injury. Both should lead to ramifications. Both should be taken seriously. Both should be viewed negatively by the public. Speeding while drunk is simply a double-whammy.
by Krotz the Wall on Mar 1, 2010 11:07 AM CST up reply actions
Depends on how you look at statistics
Yes, as a whole DWI is far more deadly, but I would offer that as a percentage, people driving over 100 MPH on a public freeway are far more dangerous.
or people texting while driving
But all are dangerous. I live in LA now and have zero tolerance for crazy, drunk, texting, or dangerous drivers. Of course, there is nothing I can do to stop them, save for minimizing driving.
"Never make predictions, especially about the future." Casey Stengel
I used to love just getting in the car and driving around
Over the years I have been minimizing the driving whenever possible, or driving in areas w/ minimal traffic.
Cars are generally pretty annoying but convenient of course
In Philadelphia I joined Philly Car Share, which was brilliant. Had a “pod” with a Prius (scary, huh) two minutes away. Go online, reserve it, drive away. 5 bucks/hour, .10/mile, no gas, no insurance payments.
"Never make predictions, especially about the future." Casey Stengel
Another way in which he is now similar to Zach Randolph ;)
I don’t think he’s a bad character, at all. Just next time, hail a cab or pay a driver.
dude makes $150k per game..
…you are right, get a cab
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
$20 for a cab
or $300k to drive your own car?
I’d actually say it should be more… but that’s a lot of money! 2 games seems a little weak though.
Agreed.
Anything less than five is kind of insulting.
once convicted I think
the NBA will suspend him as well, but this will be next season and hopefully when he is on a different team
Are you saying EVERY CITIZEN who gets a DUI
should be suspended from work and lose 5% of their annual income, or just athletes? Ever have a friend or relative get a DUI, did you think their employer should punish them. If you do, fair enough and you may be correct….but I bet we have a lot of hypocrites posting here today who have a much different opinion when the DUI involves someone they are close to, or perhaps even themselves. Fact is, about 10% of drivers in this state have a DUI…probably someone we know. Add on the fact that only about 1% of drunk drivers actually get caught…
Yes
The cost of a dwi is horrifying for someone making 40k per year.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Feb 28, 2010 7:13 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Al makes that playing (or not) 12 minutes of basketball
OK, that is an exaggeration since practices and travel have to be factored in. But a cab ride to/from where his vehicle had been parked would have been cheaper than what he’ll pay just for towing now. Not that it matters to him or is about money. But pay for a ride!
"Never make predictions, especially about the future." Casey Stengel
A DWI can cost someone..
…10-20 k in fines, legal fees, lost wages, bail, towing, and insurance hikes. Average citizens take more of a hit than what Al is getting.
41% of automobile deaths in 2006 were alcohol related. That’s about 17,000/year. That’s an obscene amount of people. Because there are so many deaths, the cost for driving drunk is appropriately high for normal people. Al isn’t even coming close to what the impact of a DWI has on most people.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
17k is an obscene number of people
considering nearly all those deaths could have been avoided had different decisions been made. Two ways of dealing with this problem: a) hit offenders’ checkbooks and revoke their licenses; b) change the attitude surrounding drinking and driving. I’m not sure what percentage of people the former has any effect on, but the number of second+ DWIs is very high, suggesting it’s not all that effective (see Strib series). The jerk who killed Malik had something like 4 or 5 DWIs. Even stripping him of his license does not guarantee he won’t get behind the wheel smashed and kill others. Ignition locks should be mandatory for these offenders.
I think changing attitudes would be more effective, especially among younger drivers. It worked to some degree with smoking and the campaigns run when a few of us were younger. It’s hard to change people’s behavior, but having a different attitude may at least help prevent such behavior from becoming the obvious social problem it is in our culture.
"Never make predictions, especially about the future." Casey Stengel
Attitude is definately a possible way to lower this number.
This is just a guess, but I would assume most people learn their lesson after a DUI and that the repeat offenders are in the minority. However, having been in college within the last 5 years and having a brother currently in college whose friends I do get to associate with, I have noticed that many people who have not been convicted seem to think that driving drunk is something to brag about. I constantly heard people say things like “I should NOT have driven home haha” and laughed it off like it was an achievement to get away with this and something to brag about. This attitude needs to be addressed but the problem is how to make an impact on the younger crowd because there definately are campaigns about it, but some people tend to think that they are above the law and will never get caught.
That would be unusual. It's typically 1 to 2 games, and not in addition to what the team is doing.
1999-10-27 Hornets Derrick Coleman arrested for DUI
2001-04-03 Blazers Rod Strickland suspended by NBA for 1 game for DUI
2001-05-14 Wizards Mike Smith suspended by NBA for 1 game (first game of 2001-02 season) for pleading guilty to DUI
2002-09-19 76ers Derrick Coleman pleaded guilty to DUI and was sentenced to 3 days of community service, 9 months probation, a 60-day suspended sentence, and fined $825 plus court costs
2002-10-08 Cavaliers Zydrunas Ilgauskas pleaded no-contest to DUI charges and received 1 year probation, 30 day suspended jail sentence, fined $1K, and his drivers license was suspended for 1 year
2002-10-14 76ers Derrick Coleman suspended by NBA for 1 game for guilty plea for DUI
2002-10-14 Cavaliers Zydrunas Ilgauskas suspended by NBA for 1 game for no-contest plea for DUI
2006-11-10 Bobcats John-Blair Bickerstaff assistant coach suspended by NBA for 2 games for DUI conviction
2007-01-31 Kings Eric Musselman suspended head coach for 2 games for DUI conviction
2008-12-01 Suns Jason Richardson arrested and charged with DUI (date approximate)
2009-02-27 Celtics Gabe Pruitt suspended by team for 2 games for arrest for DUI
2009-08-28 Suns Jason Richardson suspended by NBA for 2 games for his guilty plea this summer for a DUI arrest in December
2007-01-31 Kings Eric Musselman convicted of DWI (date approximate)
2008-06-23 Nuggets Carmelo Anthony suspended by team for first 2 games of 2009-09 regular season for arrest for DWI
2009-04-05 Clippers Zach Randolph arrested for DWI
2009-04-06 Clippers Zach Randolph suspended by team for 2 games for arrest for DWI
as far as I know NBA doesn't make decisions typically until after the court date
so they very well could say the 2 games is enough and not suspend him, but they could also add more if they feel necessary
Good work
They’re just following precedent, it seems.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Feb 28, 2010 8:39 PM CST up reply actions
a dui shows up on a background check
and will affect applying to jobs or colleges, graduate schools etc so it will negatively effect someone’s career as it very well should and if an employee represents their employer in a negative way yes there should be consequences. Al chose to represent a team when he signed a contract, he knew what it involved.
I bet corporate CEO's don't
take pay cuts when they get busted for a personal crime. Or politician’s, who are supposedly leaders.
CEOs?
Of course they don’t take pay cuts; they get bonuses, usually tied whether directly or indirectly to some crimes and misdemeanors
"Never make predictions, especially about the future." Casey Stengel
so since those 2 systems are flawed we should just
condone a DUI, he was well aware of all the NBA players and other professionals that have been suspended for similar actions when he decided to drink and drive, a stupid decision should have consequences and he absolutely deserves to be suspended, there is no excuse for a DUI. Not to mention I’m sure there is some sort of clause in his contract about conduct detrimental to the team.
HEY A*&Hole
Did I say anywhere in my comments that this should be condoned??
Point it out if I did, otherwise, I’ll accept the apology!
then what exactly are you trying to point out
with your CEO and politian comment? if your going to say something have a reason for it. I am saying he deserves to be suspended, you on the other hand brought up CEOs and politicians without saying anything else and left your point to be inferred.
What I am saying
is I wish we would either hold other people to the same standard we hold athletes, or hold athletes to the same standard we want to be held when we or someone we know get in trouble..that simple, cut out the hypocrisy as I stated in my original post.
I was basically just saying
that there are other situations where a DUI affects your job or chance of getting one. Such as background checks. Athletes are the face of a team and therefore they can negatively affect the team and the team should be able to punish them as well. Back when I worked at the YMCA we were not allowed to do certain things such as buy liquor etc when wearing our uniforms since we were representing the YMCA at that point and if we did we would be punished. Unfortunately Al Jefferson is more or less always “in uniform” since he is an athlete which he should be aware of and that is why contracts have outs for the team if the athlete does not represent the team in a decent manner. On a completely different note 2-3,000 dollars and a chance of losing a license is a big deal to most of us where as Al can easily afford it so losing some of pay may do a little better to “teach a lesson/punish”
I don't really disagree
I agree with your take on the difference between the cost to an athlete and the actually cost to most of the rest of us. I guess I try to look at the other cost the athlete has in these situations. Their character is publicly damaged, which is a far higher cost than most of us have to pay when/if we are arrested. Adding a suspension just seems even farther beyond what we are punished, but also more than others in the limelight, like CEOs, politicians, entertainers are punished.
You made me think (darn you!)
Would the league’s image be hurt if they didn’t do anything? I’d think that the league (and it’s reputation) would actually be hurt more if they let guys get away with this stuff than anything kind of destruction it could have a single person’s reputation.
But the league is its own business entity and they really have a lot of discretion in what they do and to what extent (within reason obviously).
See, what bothers me
is the reality that about 10% of all drivers have DUI’s, and if not for the luck of not being caught, about half of drivers would have a DUI at some time in their life…don’t ask me for a source, but it is well known, and I am probably underestimated when I say 50%. Yet we as a society demand that teams punish players, while asking nothing of other high profile people like CEOs, politicians and entertainers.
I don’t dispute the league has little choice, they are getting public pressure that only seems to apply to athletes, that bothers me. That said, with all their resources, they are fools for putting themselves in this situation.
there are plenty of people in here discussing their opinions
about what happened and you seem to be the only one who needs to swear and attack someone rather than have a back and forth discussion. Nice Work.
Did I attack you first, or did you attack me
I made a simple statement above about hypocrisy and holding public figures to a different standard. Your follow up was “So…we should just condone a DUI” …
I took that as an attack on me because I in no way implied that. I really hate it when people have a difference of opinion, and the comeback is that the person who disagrees is in some way condoning a criminal offense. Putting words in my mouth, either directly or thru insinuation, is the one thing on this site that will always set me off.
pretty sure i responded to your first comment and
did not assume that you were condoning anything, however your second comment came off in a much different way as all you did was point out other people that get away with it which makes it seem like you are implying that since they don’t get punished Al shouldn’t and yes to not punish Al we be condoning it since the league has made it clear that it is frowned on. If you actually would read carefully before deciding to swear and call names and more or less act like a child (which you may very well be for all I know) you would see that I never implied that “you” condoned it. It was a question ie if the team does not punish him then what should they do since it would appear as if they are condoning it by not punishing.
anyway
that’s all I was trying to say, wasn’t trying to attack you just trying to state my opinion as well. I did not appreciate being called a name nor did I feel it was necessary so decided to respond to that as and defend myself as well. As far as I’m concerned we’ve both said our share and it can be dropped so we don’t take up space for people who actually want to discuss this. Sorry if it came off as me attacking you.
I'll ask a simple question
why did you bring up “condone” after my post. I read this entire post, most people agreed with each other, I brought up a different opinion, and the word “condone” was immediately brought up?
Maybe you meant nothing, but think about the question I just asked and put yourself in my shoes.
I used condone because it is the opposite of punish
and the team is not punishing then I would call it condoning, would you have not gotten upset if I instead said “look the other way” or some other word?
I'll ask again
where did I say “We should…condone a DUI” (you stated WE, not THE TEAM as you say in the previous comment here). The fact that I question why an athlete gets more punishment for a DUI than almost any other citizen is far from saying I condone a DUI.
When a post is dealing with a subject like this, and a dead person is brought up (Malik Sealy), using the word condone is very inflammatory. I still believe you were trying to imply that because I did not agree with additional punishment, that I “condone” DUI. Nobody here today has in any way condoned DUI, yet YOU chose to bring up condoning immediately after MY post. Though you didn’t do it as a reply so it no longer appears that way, it was obvious you were responding to my post.
The reason I responded directly and in a way that stood out is that after your response I did not want anyone reading this to think that I in any way, shape or form would condone DUI. If you want to consider my original response to be acting like a child, fine… I happen to think it is childish when people use inflammatory language like “Condoning DUI” to make a case.
I still do not understand
how you are not grasping the logic that if a team/employer/league etc does not punish someone for a mistake it will appear as if they are condoning it, that is why the word condone was used. If I wanted to refer to you I would have used the word “you” and “condone” together which I did not.
Condone= to disregard or overlook (something illegal, objectionable, or the like).
Go bury the hatchet
at the bar over a couple drinks
BetterLaettner
by BetterLaettnerThanRider on Feb 28, 2010 8:02 PM CST up reply actions
hopefully it is buried
dont think either of us were trying to really offend eachother, just a misunderstanding mixed with a sensitive topic i suppose
It's the problem with written posts
I work in sales for a living and am mindful of how I say things because I know the amazing difference a few words make, or how something is phrased. Your post that irritated me was a question, but it could be called rhetorical. Watch a political debate or discussion, it is a tactic often used to put words in another person’s mouth. If we were talking face to face, it would probably be blown over in a sentence or two, but here the idea of “condone” lives on, so I needed to reply in a way that leaves no debate.
Frankly, if I could delete that post and every comment between us, I would and the issue would disappear. I wouldn’t even mind if SNP deleted the posts. Not angry, just defending myself while hopefully being instructive.
Time for the drinks.
I think it's worked out just fine.
I thought about axing the thread if it got out of hand but it looks like it worked itself out. Just a quick reminder to everyone to keep it civil and to stay as far away from name calling as possible. Everyone comes here to enjoy talking about a common subject and all Wyn and I ask is that we give each other the benefit of the doubt in cases of disagreement.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Simple misunderstanding guys
let it go and come back and talk with us.
Yes, we would have to invoke the Zell Miller arbitrating resolution
"Never make predictions, especially about the future." Casey Stengel
A few words
There has obviously [already] been a lot of debate about the topic. But it really seems as if we are all in agreement with the larger points. I feel as if I have been discussing such minute points in this topic that I really feel as if I am disagreeing with someone a lot more than I am. What Al Jefferson did was absolutely idiotic. And that’s an understatement. I don’t think anyone here will disagree with that.
I’ve had an ongoing conversation with a couple people and it has all been about to what extent he should be punished and why what he did was wrong. The fact remains that it was wrong. As Kahn mentioned, it’s extremely lucky that no one was injured and we can all be thankful for that. Especially so since he was so close to home and our relatives. Which is the part of this that has truly been glossed over. Not only was he being an idiot, but he was endangering the lives of his fans and the family of his fans. So before we get into too heated of arguments here, let’s all just be happy that it wasn’t something worse (RIP Sealy).
I plan on withholding my own opinion on Jefferson until I can hear his apology and see if he seems truly sorry for it. My gut feeling is that he really did learn from his mistake and he won’t do it again, but we can never be sure. For most people though, it takes getting caught once and especially for public figures, the backlash is a good lesson. Obviously there are quite a few exceptions, but on all accounts we have so far, Jefferson was cooperative and apparently not over a .20 at least.
Hold Jefferson to whatever degree of responsibility you choose as it is indeed your choice. But don’t forget how lucky it was that no one got hurt. Also, let’s not pound too heavily on the “trade Jefferson” bandwagon just because of this. It has already been discussed at length and any more discussions probably won’t get us anywhere except for complaining about the guy and his mistake.
Can't disagree
FWIW, I thought I heard he was .012 (often referred to as .12)…I think Doogie said this on the radio this afternoon, it was info he got from an insider at the jail. My apologies if this is wrong, but I think it was said publicly so I think it is OK to pass along.
If the 0.12 number is true..
..Al likely had at least 10 beers or most of 2 bottles of wine or 10 tequila shots or 5 very large martinis in a relatively short period of time.
My reasoning:
Game started at about 8:10p (IIRC), the box score lists the game time as 2:13. So, even if Al trotted off the court and popped a beer in the shower at 10:30 he would have had to consume 10 additional drinks in the next two-and-a-half hours to blow a 0.12 at 1:10am.
If he weighs 265 (as listed) it would take 10 drinks in 2 hours or 11 in 2.5 hours, roughly (according to online bac calculators – it takes about 8 in that time to blow a 0.08) to blow a 0.12. You have to be pretty committed to getting lit to throw back a beer every 12 minutes for more than 2 hours. And to get behind the wheel after drinking at that speed? Oy.
'It's just noise coming out of an ugly scientist.' Michael Scott
Also keep in mind
empty stomach after an extremely strenuous workout. Unless he ate while he drank, which we can’t really answer. But I’m guessing the number goes down a wee bit just because he was probably dehydrated and possibly on an empty stomach.
one other possible factor
is that he may have finished a drink or taken a few shots before leaving, sometimes if you have very recently had alcohol it will register higher on a breathalyzer (or at least it used to) and since he was pulled over fairly close to downtown this is a possibility. In any case we won’t know for sure what happened until the court date and everything else is just going to be speculation.
Your reasoning is pisspoor
The old guideline is that 4 beers/2 glasses of wine/2 shots and you’ll be at .08.
Obviously AL is very big human being so he can tolerate more alchohol, but I assure he did not drink 10 beers. There would be a lot of very fat NBA players if they drank 10 beers after games.
If anything he was probably taking shots and drinking cristal or whatever the hell rich people drink these days.
his reasoning is solid, there are many factors
but 10 alcoholic drinks is a possibility. Just look at the chart on this site http://alcoholprev.colostate.edu/bachart.shtml and assume that you go down 0.015 per hour and its comes close to 9-10 drinks. Not that it really matters the point is that he made a mistake and hopefully he learns.
My reasoning is poor?
But you cite an ‘old guideline’ that does not refer to weight or time? Wow, just wow. I am especially curious as to your apparent confidence that he didn’t drink 10 beers (ignoring the fact I listed several options). How many calories do you think 10 beers have? How many did he burn the last couple days? And, do you really think there is much of a difference (alcohol or calorie wise) between shots, champagne, and beer?
Not sure why you’re so adamant here. I listed a very, very reasonable scenario. From game end to being pulled over was about 2 and a half hours, this is fact. BAC of 0.12 (if true) provides significant info as to how much and how fast he must have consumed. But don’t let reality get in the way.
So, what do you think he consumed to get to 0.12 between 10:30 and 1:08? Think about it a bit more and I am pretty sure you’ll see I am being very, very reasonable.
'It's just noise coming out of an ugly scientist.' Michael Scott
beer has like 150 calories, shots & wine probably less than half that
So 10 beers = 1500 calories. These guys carefully watch what they put into their bodies, there is no room to needlessly take in 1500 calories chugging beers.
I just think you are clueless as to how NBA players roll. AL was not cracking beers in the shower at Target Center or rushing out to the clubs to drink as much as possible. These guys take their sweet time after games showering and getting dressed and then make a grand late night entrance at the clubs.
He probably showed up, took a few shots with his teammates/other buddies, had a drink or two, hit on some groupies, and then left.
I don't know if you live in the Twin Cities
but if you do, you need to listen to KFAN. Corey (Sludge) Cove and Henry Lake have had a great bit for years about how they would leave Target Center at the end of a game, go over to the former Bella Note, and see Michael Olowokandi there about five minutes after the game ended!
Bet the Kandi man
could not hit the urinal when he whizzed.
"Never make predictions, especially about the future." Casey Stengel
Was he ever introduced
to Onterrio Smith?
"These guys carefully watch what they put into their bodies"
You heard how he lost all of his weight this summer, right? ;-)
I seriously doubt he drank 10 beers, and I don’t think that is what CaliWolf was trying to say though. He was giving an approximation of how much of each thing Jefferson would have to drink in the timeline to get to where he got. Then he just used it as a reference to what he had already typed. It was probably a mixture of some of the options (which I think were all slightly off in the comparison, but that’s just picking at straws) or a few drinks like long islands like Rumblebee suggested above.
Yea if AL can drink 10 tequila shots in a "relatively short period of time" and only have a BAC of .12 that would make him the drinking champion
Also, in his previous life, AL was Norm from “Cheers”
Oh please
The calorie difference is much less than you think (12 beers about 1200-1800 typically; 2 bottles of wine about 1200-1500 typically, half a bottle of liquor about 1100; all about the same total alcohol content). And, it is beyond clueless to think NBA players, especially 25 year olds, are careful about what they eat. Didn’t he lose 25 pounds by staying in Minny and not going home to eat fried food? And, drinking that amount 2 or 3 times a week is absolutely sustainable for somebody, much less a pro athlete. Was it Odom with the candy obsession? Didn’t Wade have some diet issue? And Shaq obviously eats organic kale and heritage wheat bread for breakfast lunch and dinner.
And, you are kinda shooting yourself in the foot by claiming Al started drinking later. I was being generous by saying he started as early as possible.
The facts are (actually, if the blood test comes back at 0.12 the facts are) he blew a 0.12 about 150 minutes after we all saw him on the court. If he ‘rolled’ the way you say then he drank a lot faster. This is simply reality. There is simply a physical reality that requires a man of his size to consume a certain amount of alcohol to get to 0.12. This isn’t even debatable. A ‘few shots and a drink or two’ won’t get it done. He has a certain volume of blood in his body and therefore is required to consume a certain volume of alcohol to get to 0.12. That volume is not small and under any reasonable circumstance required him to consume enough drinks to give pause, to say the least, when sliding behind the wheel.
But, thanks for being civil. Really, hope I am as well.
'It's just noise coming out of an ugly scientist.' Michael Scott
I think one issue
is that your equivalents were a little off. Apart from that though, I don’t know how else you are wrong.
Open to being wrong...
…but which ones were off? I admit to loose language with ‘very large martinis’ (roughly doubles). Roughly a six-pack of beer = a bottle of wine = 5-6 shots = 5-6 normal mixed drinks. Lots of experience here, so any mistakes should be attirbuted to my drunkeness (sans driveness; or athlecticness).
Cheers, and here’s to hoping Al’s blood test comes back much less than 0.12.
'It's just noise coming out of an ugly scientist.' Michael Scott
I doubt it was ten beers
but if the bartender was making the drinks correctly, just two Long Island Teas would get a large person to this level in this amount of time. That is why people should particularly stay away from mixed drinks before driving (especially when they involve multiple alcohols and little soda or water). Also good advice to females who don’t want to be taken advantage of.
.12 is correct
.012 would not be a big deal … .12 is … and that is what he blew according to a person who absolutely would know … keep up the intelligent back-and-forth … love reading everyone’s thoughts.
Jared Allen has 3 DWIs from before he was on the Vikings
he is rehabilitated, no longer drinks, and is a great teammate and member of the community.
He most definitely still drinks...
but as long as he’s not driving anymore afterwards I don’t care.
I highly doubt he still drinks
He completely changed his lifestyle so he wouldn’t be in situations where he would be tempted to drink.
If someone saw J. Allen drinking, it would be a much bigger deal than AL getting a dui
I've seen him drinking
I saw him drunk at WEFest two years ago and some friends of mine run into him at the bars from time to time. Big deal, it’s not illegal and it doens’t make him a bad person as long as he’s not driving anymore.
Actually, it might be a violation of his parole agreement
3 DWIs is very serious.
"Never make predictions, especially about the future." Casey Stengel
Yeah, sorry
I meant to hit reply to the topic above this one but instead started a new one.
And now the transformation into Z-bo 2.0 is complete
Sigh.
When Al signed his new deal post KG trade I thought it was good insurance for him and a reasonable deal for the Wolves. With his serious knee surgery, struggle to post his normal numbers, struggles within the triangle, and now the DUI …
Is Al now a “Bad Contract” ?
Yikes.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
One other thing to keep in mind
Although he has been around the NBA for quite some time he is still only 25 and came right out of high school, this is his first mistake and he is relatively young so as dissappointed as I am, he does still deserve a chance to show us that he has learned before we condemn him. He should be punished accordingly and then hopefully it will be over with and lesson learned. Luckily noone was hurt.
Not going to defend what happened...
because what he did is inexcusable.
What troubles me is whether or not this is a sign of deeper problems. As thealmtyb said, Al came to the NBA straight out of high school. He came to us in a trade for KG, who was not only the best player in our franchise’s history – he was the most popular. Little bit of pressure there. Next, Al was tagged as the face of the team. He signed what we all considered a reasonable contract, but, as the highest paid player, had to handle all the expectations. He watched the team trade a lead guard for a guy who played the same postition (FWIW – I still like this trade). He’s had 3 coaches in 2 years and is playing in an offense that doesn’t really suit his style. He’s been the subject of a lot of criticism and trade rumors. Plus, he is trying to play with one rehabbing knee and one injured one.
Now, I’m not saying that he’s on the verge of being Underwood, Artest, Jackson, et al. It was just a mistake by a still young man. I would just hope that the FO or the judge will have him speak to a counselor – if only to release in a positive way what must be lots of frustration.
Well, we know Al was/is close with Rashad McCants...
… so he probably isn’t a total stranger to the “feel good” scene. ;)
(To be clear, that was not meant as a shot at Al but as a shot at Shaddy, whom I still detest for his selfishness and for wasting his talent and the Wolves’ draft pick.)
The truth is, all of these guys drink, sometimes to excess, and many smoke pot and do other drugs. They’re rich twenty-somethings. It comes with the territory. It doesn’t matter if you’re talking about Wall Street, Silicon Valley, or the NBA—rich twenty-somethings (all twenty-somethings) drink.
Mad Dog aside, the Wolves haven’t employed many teetotalers. Think about this list: Eddie Griffin (R.I.P.). JR Rider. Ricky Buckets. (Ricky’s exploits are basically common knowledge, and they’re an easy target for comedic fun. Just ask Bill Simmons, who makes fun of Ricky’s drinking in approximately 75% of his columns but has probably gotten drunk with Ricky when both were in Boston. On a less funny note, there’s an LA-based columnist who, in an extremely unprofessional manner, refers to Ricky Davis in his columns as “the druggie.”) Doug West (who appeared to be one of our best citizens, but turned out to be an alcoholic.) Vin Baker. Stephon Marbury. (Steph admitted to smoking marijuana last summer. At least I think he did—the Vaseline in his mouth made his speech patterns all-but-unintelligible in that Youtube video.)
There are many others, including current Wolves.
The point isn’t to name names or to “out” anyone; the point is to say that Al driving home with a .12 BAC isn’t a good reason to sound alarm bells about his character or any “demons” he may or may not be facing. At 24 years old, Al’s part of the current binge-drinking generation. I wouldn’t be surprised if I found out that he seldom drinks, but when he does it’s to excess. As others have pointed out, he might not have had more than a few drinks or shots since he was presumably drinking on an empty stomach while dehydrated and fatigued.
So no, I’m not ready to disown Jefferson for this citation. Running down the list, I’d say: Careless? Yes. Stupid? Yes. Unforgivable. No. A representation of his “true” character? I have no idea, and I suspect that no one on this board knows.
The carelessness aspect of the citation is as dumb and unforgivable as the offense itself. Any public figure who drinks ought to have his/her own breathalyzer—they’re not very expensive and are easily and legally obtainable—and should never drive when their BAC reading is close to the legal limit. Obviously Al didn’t use one on Saturday night.
Al’s BAC is the least worrying part of this whole fuck-up, at least to me. Having a few drinks on a Saturday night after having added another “L” to an already long losing streak, in which you’ve been injured and played below your ability while being derided incessantly by your home fans doesn’t strike me as an unusual, or even an unhealthy, thing to do. I thank goodness no one was hurt and I hope Al learned a lesson, but people are reading way too much into this. I don’t “condone” drinking and driving, but as Andy pointed out, the stigma that our culture attaches to the offense leads to emotional overreactions that aren’t evoked by other equally reckless actions. I personally believe LeBron’s and Adrian Petersen’s race car antics are much more dangerous to my and others’ safety than Al Jefferson’s, but this just adds fuel to the anti-Al Jeff fire. Empirical research suggests a high probability that at least a quarter of the people denouncing Al’s behavior have engaged in it themselves, and I find the hypocrisy and judgment nauseating. As a native Minnesotan who has lived in various places around the USA and other countries, I can say that this is a somewhat uniquely “Minnesotan” reaction. We like to publicly denounce irresponsible alcohol use while engaging in such behavior in the privacy of our own homes or our friends’ homes. To play up a stereotype, it might be a function of the repressive, passive-aggressive stoicism common among the Norwegian-Lutheran culture that predominates in parts of the state. Or maybe it’s something else. It doesn’t really matter, I guess. But it’s strange to me that people are making character judgments over a matter that boils down to carelessness and bad luck.
by Shogun on Mar 1, 2010 10:07 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Well said
Now maybe I don’t have to comment on this topic even once.
Thanks...
…the “bad luck” part of it comes from the fact that there is (an estimated) one drunk-driving arrest for every 27,000 miles driven while drunk. (Even though I’m quoting “SuperFreakonomics,” the author, Steve Levitt is a very legit economist.) Although Al’s race (black), size (huge), and car (presumably a Bentley or a dark SUV with big, shiny wheels), probably make him more likely to get pulled over than the average motorist, probability was still on his side when he got behind the wheel thinking he’d get home without incident. The fact that he got pulled over—or that there was even a cop around to see his wheels cross the white line—was bad luck.
the fact that this happened
during the season makes it look worse for him. This was a dumb thing to do, no excuses. He’s gone this Summer. I think we will get something decent for him. We might have to add a sweetener that we wouldn’t have before, though. No, I’m not talking Rubio or our pick.
It's totally irrelevant to his arrest
But the only way I can buy the idea of him being traded this summer is if Kahn and Rambis don’t believe in player development and Kahn doesn’t believe in maximizing the value of assets. If they had really decided to move him, why would they keep putting him in situations that don’t suit him? Giving him the ball on the left block 20-30 times per game is a warning sign that he’s getting moved; making him do things that he’s uncomfortable with isn’t. Forget about the words that Kahn and Rambis say and focus on how the guy is being used. It’s not consistent with getting the most out of him as a player unless they’re treating him like a long-term asset instead of a short-term one.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Mar 1, 2010 12:08 AM CST reply actions
Maybe because they don't want to hinder Love's development?
If they play Al 38 minutes a game and just let him do what he wants, that is hurting Kevin Love’s development. They both play the same position. Notice how they rarely play at the same time now. Love is our future at PF and everyone knows it. Al is playing less because we want Love to play more.
If they don't want to hinder Love's development,
his playing time is deeply puzzling to me.
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
Love's playing time you mean?
Yes. I’m starting to wonder whether Love just isn’t a conditioned enough athlete to play the minutes we’re all advocating for him to play. It would logically explain the confusing tendency of several coaches now to limit the amount of minutes he plays. I wonder if you would look up Love’s college stats, if his minutes were disproportionately limited based on the impact he had on the game. Perhaps his body type is such that he’s always going to huff and puff when he approaches 30 minutes a game.
If they're not playing together...
Why would what he does on the court matter related to Love?
by pagingstanleyroberts on Mar 1, 2010 9:27 PM CST up reply actions
I'm close to being in this camp
I don’t think it’s a lock, but I think it’s well above 50% at this point.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Washington.
The gun thing, the “shootout” before the game, the fire sale, the implosion.
The Nets have a nice looking future. Washington’s in for hurt. Still have Gilbert around at his money, too.
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
(Sure; just reacting to the Nets thing.)
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
I wouldn't say we are anywhere near rock bottom
let’s hope we are at the bottom as far as our franchise goes though. If it gets worse from here, I reserve the right to blame you to irrational extents ;-)
This will come to a close this summer.
It has been painful to watch Al on this team. I personally think a healthy Al Jefferson brings enough to the table that he can be a weapon if used properly (and with teammates that can stretch the defense). Kahn and Rambis have chosen to go another route, building around the triangle/motion offense. This is fine, but Al is a round peg in a square hole. I understand Kahn likely wanted Al to show he was healthy (trade value) and/or see whether he could work in the motion o (answer: no) prior to making a move. But talk about brutal to watch it not work on the court.
On the DUI, it’s very disappointing. Particularly as stated above with the history of the franchise. That said, this particular mistake is one that people in MN and WI make in large numbers every weekend. I “thought I was ok to drive” and got one myself years ago before being married & having kids. It was a wake-up call and I did my best to advocate to those would would listen. I still saw a good number of people not listen and get behind the wheel. I can’t figure out why this seems to be an area where many people cannot learn from others’ mistakes.

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