Revenge on Casey's Revenge
One of these years the Wolves are (hopefully) going to have themselves a Magical Revenge Tour through the league; cutting their way through teams that had, at one point, given half-assed efforts, joked through the better part of the 2nd half, stayed out too late the night before because they knew full well that the Wolves weren't going to give them a fight....you get the picture.
Last night was not the beginning of the MRT but it was a catalyst for a few things that we need to talk about below the fold.
For those of you who don't remember, the Wolves ended the 2008 calendar year with one of the most embarrassing games in team history against Dallas. Mavs coach Rick Carlisle was booted from the contest early on and that left assistant Dwane Casey in charge against the man who unbelievably fired him a few years prior, Kevin McHale. The Mavs came back for the win from a 29 point 2nd half deficit. The most disturbing thing about the game was not that the Wolves gave up a nearly 30-point lead in less than 24 minutes; it was that Kevin McHale told his team not to foul with 45 seconds remaining in a 5 point game. They gave up. I argued at the time that McHale shouldn't have been allowed to board the plane back to Minny.
Last night with about 8 minutes to go in the 4th quarter the Mavs' announcers on League Pass said (and I'm paraphrasing) "This is the part of the game where the Wolves typically fall apart...This is where their guard play just can't stand up to the challenge." Typically opposing announcers limit their generic comments about the Wolves to far-out statements about Ricky Rubio or the inability of Kevin Love and Al Jefferson to play together, but the Mavs announcers showed themselves to be one of the few groups who get it right: The Wolves' perimeter play is atrocious when it matters and it is the single biggest reason why they lose. They have seen the damage up close and personal and they know full well that the Love/Jefferson pairing is not the problem when weighed against the likes of Sebastian Telfair, Rashad McCants, and Randy Foye or, a rookie pair in Jonny Flynn and Wayne Ellington. They have seen the pattern that we Wolves fans are treated to upwards of 80 times a year. When Rodrigue Beaubois hit his 3rd 3 pointer of the 2nd half, when Dallas went to the 3-guard lineup, when the Wolves had an ugly 24-second violation with just under 5 minutes left, and when the announcers hooked on to pointing out that Flynn was trying to dribble the ball into the ground on every possession, I thought we were going to see yet another Dallas disaster. When Dallas took the lead on a pair of free throws on a foul that put Ryan Hollins out of the game, I was fairly certain that we were being treated to another collapse special.
What saved the game for the Wolves? For one, while Our Beloved Puppies were on the wrong end of a 14-2 4th quarter run, they never stopped playing hard on defense and they collected a series of charges that kept the attacking Mavs from collecting more points from their big run as they should have. This allowed them to (barely) make it through an extended offensive drought.
What also allowed them to win is that they shot the lights out for the entire game. They ended with an eFG of 60.2%. That's pretty damn impressive for the guys in blue. What's even more impressive is that the Wolves won a game in a fashion that they typically lose by. Check out the Four Factors:
| Pace | Eff | eFG | FT/FG | OREB% | TOr | |
| Minnesota | 97.0 | 120.6 | 60.2% | 20.5 | 20.0 | 16.5 |
| Dallas | 111.3 | 48.2% | 35.4 | 29.8 | 14.4 |
They lost in 3 of the 4 areas yet they walked away with the W because they shot the hell out of the ball. In a normal Wolves tilt, this means that bad defense allowed the opposing team to go nuts from the floor and no matter how well the Wolves controlled the offensive boards or got to the line, they ended up losing because a 60+ eFG is just too much to deal with. The Wolves were 12-22 from beyond the arc. Corey Brewer was 3-4 from deep including a gut-checker with 2 minutes remaining off of a Ryan Gomes offensive rebound that put the Wolves back in the lead and was the turning point of the final 120 seconds. Did Dallas play poor defense? I haven't watched them enough this season to say one way or another, but they did have some nice defensive plays in the 4th quarter and the Wolves had to earn every point down the stretch. OK, Dirk's foul on Brewer's 3 point attempt with 1:07 remaining was garbage defense but...well, I think the Wolves will take it.
Moving on to broad Wolvesian philosophy, I think we can start drawing two conclusions from the team's recent play. First, Rambis got it right: It is better to have a reserve lineup that is worth a damn than it is front-loading the starting lineup and watching the D-League-esque 2nd string get blown out of the building. Wayne Ellington, Damien Wilkins, Ramon Sessions, and Kevin Love holding their own off the bench and they have allowed Rambis to shorten the rotations and play with confidence when the starters head for the pine. We can quibble about who should be starting, but it's hard to argue with the idea that a shortened and more talent-spread-out rotation has led to better performance.
Second, Ryan Hollins is showing signs that the only thing missing from a Love/Jefferson frontcourt is the type of player we have been calling for on Hoopus for the better part of 2 years: an athletic back up big who can guard both positions. Is Hollins savvy enough to be this type of guy in the long run? Is he good enough? I'm not optimistic, but what I am hopeful for is that he is showing that a 3 man rotation between a combined 96 minutes is the way of the future for a front court anchored on Love and Jefferson...if Kahn does decide to keep the pairing together. Earlier this year I wrote that, for the first time, I didn't think a Love/Jefferson pairing could work in the long run. This was, in part, due to the fact that the type of player they need to pair them with is so rare and so specific, that I don't think they would ever be able to find him. Joakim Noah isn't walking through that door. That being said, the last few games with Hollins in the starting lineup have renewed my hope that such a type of player is possible and that it could work...it's just not very likely and I have no idea if they can ever find their magical mystery athletic 3rd big (or a magical mystery athletic and insanely rare small forward).
A few things to wrap this up:
- Runner up for play of the game: Flynn's drive through the heart of the Dallas defense for a kick out to a wide-open Wayne Ellington, who daggered a 3 from the corner to put the Wolves up by 7. The arena emptied at the second the ball went through the net. Flynn dribbled way too much all night and he had issues getting by Beaubois, but he played well when it mattered and he set up a fantastic look for the dagger shot.
- 3rd place for play of the game goes to Damien Wilkins and his 45-foot shot at the halftime buzzer. This trimmed a 7 point Dallas lead to 4 and it really changed the tenor of the game.
- Beaubois could be a very good player in a few years. He is insanely long and quick. If he puts it together, the Mavs could have themselves a nice player for a long time.
- I picked the Mavs to make the finals this year. I have no idea what is going on with them right now but they are too talented to be playing this poorly. Dirk is one of my favorite players and I think he is woefully underrated. Here's hoping they can turn it around for the playoffs.
Well folks, that about does it. The Wolves face a fantastic challenge tonight. They go up against one of their rebuilding peers (Memphis) who just happens to be miles and miles beyond where the Wolves are at. 4 in a row against the Griz would be a fantastic sign. Winning both ends of a back-to-back would be another. Let's see if the Wolves have what it takes and if they will answer the bell and play well against a squad that ran them out of the gym the last time they played.
Until later.
UPDATE: I really can't overstate just how big of a game tonight's tilt in Memphis is for the Wolves. This is the biggest game of the year for them. It is a chance to show their fans (and themselves) that something has changed and that they are going to go out and give a 48 minute full effort against a peer that has moved well ahead of them in the rebuilding process. This should be viewed as a playoff game for this team and it will be very disappointing if they don't treat this game with the kind of importance it deserves.
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It's a lottery system
maybe they are putting themselves on fate’s path for the first?
This player development thing seems to be working
At times earlier in the season it was easy to give up hope with the likes of Hollins and Brewer, yet something has clicked with both of these guys. It’s really fun to watch them develop right in front of our eyes.
Here is the +/- for Hollins’ last three games: +26, +20, +9. Wow.
Hollins and Brewer...
….really have shown solid strides. Gomes is playing better this year too. This staff has really done some nice things on the development front.
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After Brewer signs his nice multi-year contract in a couple he
he better remember to name his first born Kurt!
funny but true... and give him clark kent glasses with the middle taped.
by Kevin Love Jefferson on Feb 6, 2010 4:47 PM CST up reply actions
Rambis
were never taped just so you know. That’s slapshot and the Hansen brothers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Feb 6, 2010 5:31 PM CST up reply actions
I don't get this Hollins thing...
I mean I know he’s been playing BETTER, but that’s not saying much considering we’re comparing him to the guy earlier in the season who Dave Berri described as “The Least Productive Player in the Game”.
I feel like there are two real reasons why we’re on this winning streak…
1. As SnP said, we’ve shortened the rotation. No more Pech, no more Cardinal, and no more PAVS!
2. The big one…Jonny Flynn isn’t killing us. Asst/TO for each of the 3 games…8:3, 8:2, 7:1. That’s a far cry from the 5:4’s we’ve been used to.
Jefferson to the Bench
I also liked it when the sat Jefferson in favor of Love down the stretch.
Good Comments
Addition by subtraction. Also no more Jawai.
I think it is a matter of relative pairings...
…for instance, does Hollins + Jefferson and Love + Jefferson for an entire quarter > Jefferson + Love for 8 minutes with patches of Jawai and Pech. Jefferson and Love are both good enough rebounders and scorers so they cover up Hollins’ biggest problems with his game. I don’t think it will end up being a long term solution because Hollins doesn’t appear to be good enough, but he is definitely showing that this type of player can do wonders.
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Agree completely.
That was one of the more exciting things about last night’s game—it showed that what Khan has been saying we’ve needed for a long time now, is an athletic big—and last night showed why. Now if we could just get that athletic big. S-n-P, do you think Larry Sanders could be that guy? Is he athletic enough?
Also, Blakely makes a good point up above. This team is obviously at its best when Flynn has high (7-8) assist type games. Also, it seemed like the Wolves actually played a little defense last night, which was encouraging. I would like to see this team win without having to shoot the lights out (over 50% on 3’s?) but I guess until we have more talent, this is what we have to relay on to beat the top teams…
by SF on Feb 6, 2010 8:49 AM CST up reply actions
I don't know...
…if Sanders could develop into that guy or not. The problem with the Love/Jefferson approach is either finding the right kind of guy to split minutes at the 4/5 or, even harder, to give them what they need at the rim from the 3. These sorts of players don’t grow on trees and Sanders certainly qualifies for the type of player who could do this. I think it’s between him and Hassan Whiteside of Marshall in terms of being the type of player that could work.
Noah is still the guy that could turn this team’s 4/5 into the best young front court in the league. With him on board the team could figure that someone out of the Flynn, Rubio, Sessions group would work at the point and they could throw all of their other resources at the wing. Of course, at this point no one is getting Noah away from the Bulls.
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The good news is that there seems to be a slew of these types of guys who may potentially be in the draft. I need to watch more of most of them to be able to break them down in detail, but with Whiteside, Sanders, Alabi, Udoh, Varnado and even Jerome Jordan all out there, the Wolves should be able to get some sort of lengthy shot-blocker. DX’s scouting reports seem to think that Whiteside, Alabi and Udoh all have good potential as both shot-blockers and pick and roll defenders, so they should be guys we keep an eye on.
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One word: Eh...
I hate that there are significant flaws in all of those guys.
Jordan would maybe be a minor upgrade to the Hollins of late. With Hollins, you have a guy who can guard the face-up bigs in the NBA while Love and Al may struggle against those types… Jordan couldn’t do that since he’s not the pure athlete, though certainly the superior athlete to Love and Al. But he brings far more interior help than Hollins, hence the minor upgrade.
I consider Varnado the slightly better prospect than Jordan, but he shouldn’t be moved far out of the paint, so then face-up bigs would be a bigger problem than they are now. While the help defense in the paint would be elite when he is on the floor, do you really want Varnado struggling to guard bigger Cs while Love/Al are struggling to guard quicker PFs? Not to mention his offensive repertoire is less than Jordan’s… I’m just not sold on his fit here if Al and Love are on the team (unless Varnado proves he can guard guys like Cousins – a beast I’ve never seen him tackle); but he should be a great 3rd big for some team in the late-first. As a 4th big for the Wolves? Great, but so much as a 3rd for them.
Alabi is kind of a softie and while he has athleticism, he’s not a dominant defensive force in the paint. I certainly like him more for the Timberwolves than the two guys listed prior, mainly because he has a budding offensive game and he has more versatility on defense; but I don’t really want to hinge a future on the guy and would rather move up because he doesn’t seem to have the fire/want to dominate the interior offensively or defensively.
Sanders is kind of the same as Alabi, except more athleticism so he’s more adept to guarding guys outside the paint (much like Hollins now), and brings more weakside help defensively. However, he’s arguably more soft, so it would lead Love and Al to be forced to guard most starting Cs – at least that’s how I view it since the next time I see Sanders guard a true C will be the first. I don’t know about you, but I don’t necessarily feel comfortable with Love guarding Cs. Offensively, he’s working on his jumper, and while it’s not to the reliable stage yet, I think he’s much better working outside the paint – with his scoring near the hoop coming mainly off garbage buckets.
Udoh is tantalizing, and his frame could add much more muscle since he’s a freak physically. However, his offensive game is inefficient at best, and he too is somewhat soft when it comes to man defense. Weakside defense is arguably better than Sanders; and his ability to defend post players should get better when he puts on more weight. Potentially he could become exactly what the Timberwolves need, but the questions about his strength, toughness, and scoring efficiency (worst among the bigs that I track) lead me to wonder if this raw player will ever “get it”.
Last, but not least, Whiteside. Extremely underwhelming against Tulsa to soften the hype of the Memphis game. However, when I tried to move him down from the 8th spot I had him at last week, nobody jumped out at me to move ahead of him. His weaknesses are glaring: strength, rebounding, post skills, and passing IQ. However, he’s still an efficient scorer without post skills because of his nearly-unblockable, smooth jumper. Rebounding isn’t there because of fundamentals and he gets rooted out too easily – his frame can add strength which hopefully will solve some of the problems. Is he soft? Offensively, sure. Defensively, no. He’s great in man and weakside help – the best on this list for both. His fit here would just be too awesome, but he needs to pull it all together and that’s a big risk.
Whiteside is up there with Cousins and Aldrich; but if all three realize their potential Whiteside is the best fit, no question. However, he’s easily, EASILY the biggest risk in that group of never getting it. Knowing what I know now, I would be ecstatic if he was a trade-up target.
Udoh is a guy I would be somewhat happy to get here, but he’s also a big risk/reward guy. Sanders and Alabi are two guys I wouldn’t be disappointed with if the Timberwolves drafted them, but it’d be kind of bleh. Jordan and Varnado being drafted would be disappointing if they keep Al and Love – though as I said, I like Varnado for a different team.
That’s my overly long, not-asked-for take on those guys.
Would some of those guys...
Be worth going after with the Charlotte pick, which should be in the mid-to-late teens?
by pagingstanleyroberts on Feb 6, 2010 12:55 PM CST up reply actions
Good stuff
Sounds pretty reasonably thought out to me.
This is how I feel...
If we use assets and the Bobs or Jazz pick to get the guy we want then I’m okay but I would be sorely disappointed to have to settle on one of these guys with our pick. I feel that every one of the guys you listed should stay in school for one more year but realize that most likely, none of them will.
I figured you’d be around and was hoping you’d weigh in. I actually went and tried to find that thread over on RC where you posted about these guys, so thanks!
Thing is, you’re never going to be able to find the perfect complement, or at least you can’t hold out in the hope of doing so, because prime Camby probably isn’t walking through our door, unfortunately. Personally, I’m fine with taking a risk/reward guy with some flaws if we’re doing it later in the draft. In the context of taking one of these guys with Cha/Utah’s pick, or a better pick we get via trade, which one do you think is going to be the most realistic, in terms of availability AND fit? Whiteside would be great, but I’m guessing he goes too high to be worth it given our complete dearth of talent on the wing, so would you be happy if we could get Udoh in the late teens?
Basically, I’m assuming we’re going to shore up the wing with our pick, so I consider all of these guys targets with our other picks. Sure, the jury is out on Al and Love, but which one of these guys do you think would be the best value later in the draft? I just want a guy who can give us what Hollins does but with some BBQ and more youth so we can see if that 3 man platoon is workable.
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Oh, and I’d rather get a guy with some quickness who can guard out on the perimeter and shut down pick and rolls a bit, even if he’s not a great man defender against strength players. Honestly, I think both Al and Love are much better in those matchups. Love might not be ideal against C’s, but I think he does far better in strength matchups than when he’s forced to move his feet, even if he gives up a few inches in height. He’s a brick shithouse, so at least he has the strength to muscle guys out the post, and he’s got great fundamentals that help make up for his lack of height (remember him blocking Duncan and really frustrating him last year?). He and Al also obviously have the rebounding/scoring process to really help cover up those weaknesses in that 3rd big. I think we’d be better off maximizing the complementary abilities of the theoretical front court trio by getting a guy who provides maximum quickness D (for lack of a better term) even if he’s a junk scorer with weak rebounding. So yeah.. basically Hollins but better.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
Most realistic in terms of availability and fit is probably...
…either going to be Sanders or Udoh. I used to be a guy who thought Alabi would be a great 3rd big here, but as I said above, he just seems to lack the fire.
I’m not a Sanders fan (that is, I don’t gush over him), but it’s not like I hate the guy, so if he were taken by the Timberwolves I would certainly hope for the best – it’s just that he is relatively untested against real bigs. As you know, he’s a good/great athlete for a PF/C and has insanely long arms; but lacks the bulk. Kind of in the Hollins mold, but far more focused on the defensive end.
Udoh is a guy who you’d think could be molded into a good/great player in the frontcourt given his variety of talents and evolving game – even though he’ll be 23 on draft night. Defensively he gives just as much as Sanders and, as I said in my long post, he’s got a better frame than Sanders to add weight and still possesses the insanely long arms.
For me at this point, I’d go Udoh, if only because he’s a more known quantity to me and he’s turned around the Baylor program in one season with him being the only significant addition. Sure he hasn’t dominated in marquee matchups, but he’s been good enough and has significant upside despite his age – this isn’t Johnson who is seemingly polished.
Can’t we just pretend that Whiteside comes on strong late in the year and dominates the boards while gaining 20 pounds of muscle, but then for some reason drops to the 8-12 range where the Timberwolves trade up using a combination of Pekovic, and the CHA/UTA 1sts?
Loved your comment about 3 players for 96 minutes
I have been saying this samething sense this years draft, not only on this site, but on numerous other sites. Thanx for saying that, i literally jumped out of my seat when i read that
They definitely need...
..a very specific player to make the 3 man rotation work.
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At the very least
You gotta believe SOMEONE out of Whiteside, Alabi, Uduh, Sanders, Monroe, and Varnado would be that fit. And most of those guys will be available in the 14-24 range when we make our second two picks. I’m just hoping that we get the right guy.
I also don’t think we should discount a player like Monroe as the third guy in that rotation. He may not be the athletic pogo stick type, but at the very least I think he’ll be very productive. We could do a lot worse than having a 96 minute of just productive players.
Monroe.. maybe,
But he’s not that athletic and he’s not a top-tier defender. Really, I’d rather have Pekovic than Monroe. What Monroe brings in passing ability, Pekovic brings in scoring. Am I off to think that Pekovic could be a Marcin Gortat kind o player?
As for that athletic, shot-blocking center, I think that the Wolves ought to target, in this order:
Aldrich
Udoh
Alabi
Sanders
Varnado
And one more thing: if we end up picking thrid, who in the world do we take?
by SF on Feb 6, 2010 10:12 AM CST up reply actions
I think a guy that we all forget
who may just be a perfect fit: Donatas Motiejunas. The man is built like Dirk/Bargnani and hopefully he will have the ability to defend like Dirk. Draftexpress lists defense as a main weakness, but he is only 19… a lot of time to improve. Might even be able to improve his 3pt shot and space the floor for us if we get a lineup like Rubio/Flynn/Turner/Brewer/Jefferson. His potential makes me drool. And I still think he will drop to the middle of the Bobcat and Utah pick after March Madness.
Yuck
Euro big men that can defend are extremely few and far between, so color me skeptical. I absolutely hate Bargnani’s game. People have been looking for the next Dirk for years, but have yet to find him….
by Rascal Flatts on Feb 6, 2010 1:49 PM CST up reply actions
Think we could get Motiejunas
and trade him for Robert “Tractor” Traylor?
what Pekovic brings
Don’t underestimate this guy. He is an frickin’ HERO in Athens… and why not? Olimpia has been European champion like five years in a row, in large part because of him.
Personally, I think the Wolves would do well with a veteran 3rd for the front court, if not Pek then Haywood from Washington. (I can’t believe he doesn’t get more attention: really, he is a very underrated and athletic big up for FA this summer)
It’s fine to take a draft prospect and develop him, but both of these guys are real fighters on the boards on both ends. It’s time now, especially with 2011 shaping up at least to be a shortened season, to think seriously about making a move and getting some playoff experience for the team.
also Jawai
Sorry if I’m out of touch at bit (just too much work and travel lately) but no one has said anything about Nathan Jawai. Last time I looked it seemed he was starting to get comfortable on the court… and he showed some real quicks a la Big Al on his low post moves.
Whatever… the fact is that whoever ends up the 3rd big, the coaching staff should be among the best in the league for bringing them along.
Aldrich and Alabi in the draft
are two that i really like, and i am still not sold on Thabeet being a bust, not saying we should go after him hand and foot, but you know, if the right deal comes along, i still think Thabeet can become a defenseive force, but he will never be a scorer,
My thoughts exactly
And I also think that ultimately, either Love or Jefferson HAS to be a sixth man for them to work out on the same team together. Both to set the right tone at the start of the game, and to balance the rotations during it.
Do you think they can end up finishing the game together? I think this will be a huge indicator on whether the Love/Jeff combo can work. Last night is a nice example where the defensive matchups just don’t allow the two to be on the floor together in crunch time and I’m wondering if one of them would be able to watch the end of games from the bench.
Last night, I felt the team was a little cowerdly, to be honest
Either Love isn’t nearly as good defensively as fans like to claim, or the team was just too scared to find out.
Either way, like I said in the game thread, if the team has any faith in Love, then they should trust him enough to guard Dirk for two minutes. I’m not really sure what to make of the fact he didn’t…Al and Love should have finished the game together last night.
Wasn't Love in the game at the end?
Gomes guarded Dirk and Love guarded the center. Love and Hollins played well together for most of the fourth quarter, and then Rambis switched in Al for Love and it was a complete disaster. Rambis brought Love back in for Al and moved Gomes over the PF position and we finished big.
I think the reason they weren’t playing together was also about the offensive end: taking Al out allowed them to open the lane and spread the floor, which helped them at the end because Dampier had to come out to guard the screen and rolls.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Feb 6, 2010 4:44 PM CST up reply actions
jefferson and Love were playing together w/ 2 minutes left in the 3rd. Wolves up by 11. with 8 minutes left in 4th wolves still up by 10, Hollins replaces jefferson.
5 minutes left in 4th. Wolves up by 6 jefferson substutes for Love. Hollins fouls out with 2 minutes left. Dallas up by 2. Love also substitutes for jefferson.
Brewer scored 6
flynn scored 4
Ellington scored 3
Dallas held to 2 free throws made.
by Kevin Love Jefferson on Feb 6, 2010 4:58 PM CST up reply actions
I agree! -- they have to learn to play together and learn to improve on their weaknesses. If not Love then put jefferson on Dirk. He has more mobility than people realize especially after dropping the 30 pds.
You can’t have one of your two best players sitting the pine at the end of games. Its been either love or jefferson sitting. Mostly love. and its not smart in my view.
by Kevin Love Jefferson on Feb 6, 2010 5:10 PM CST up reply actions
Are those nights from Flynn coming in the offense, or not?
I only saw the first quarter last night, and have been in scrubs for recent games, but are the Wolves letting the geometrically-named offense slide somewhat?
Criticism of Flynn has mentioned pounding the ball all year, of course. Couldn’t that (nice in the replay) drive inside to dish out to Ellington in the corner have happened just as easily in summer league, though? Before there was any coach to impose an offensive doctrine on the kid?
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He still dribbles way, way too much without a sense of purpose
When he finally does get into the lane, it’s either a shot, a kickout to the perimeter, or a turnover. The thing I’m still not seeing enough is him setting up the bigs for easy shots. In the dunk highlights posted earlier this week, one of them is a beautiful wrap-around pass Flynn made to Jefferson for an easy dunk. That hardly ever happens.
by Rascal Flatts on Feb 6, 2010 9:19 AM CST up reply actions
Agreed...
….he pounds the ball into the ground WAAAAAYYY too much. Even on the break he dribbles when he should be making the early pass. He definitely has the tools to be a very good point but it’s going to take him understanding that he needs to do a lot of the work with the ball out of his hands, instead of dribbling 15 seconds off the clock every time down the court.
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There are two things that could be possibly going on. They could show casing him. Showing how clutch he is and how well he can attack the lane. Or Rambis could be realizing that his role with the Wolves will never be as a classic PG and that they need a playmaking 3 and a consistent 2 that is a great catch and shooter.
I am really starting to think it is a waste in this current cap environment to waste the expiring contracts to probably land a way overpriced free agent. Maybe the Wolves can pry away Kevin Martin with a package like Big Al and a Kings/Bobcats pick swap or Jonny Flynn, Rights to Pekovic, Gomes, and Pavlovic. Or package for Iguodala and Dalembert. Dalembert would be ideal on this team. His athleticism is world class and he is a great rebounder and and shot blocker. He is older and getting paid a lot of money, but if Kahn wanted to make a playoff run next year, he could certainly do it. Move Big Al for the above package and have a front court of Love, Dalembert, Pekovic, Hollins, and Whiteside (drafted with Sacto pick swap). Give Whiteside a developmental year. He has all the tools to be an unreal front court player and under the tutelage of Rambis and Co, I really think Whiteside would have a shot at reaching his potential. Then have a wing rotation of Iguodala, KMart, Brewer, and Ellington. The rotation would cover all of its bases. Catch and shooting, playmaking, attacking the rim, 3 point shooting, rebounding, and defending the perimeter. The real tricky part is the PG part. Does Flynn show major strides and Kahn decided he wants to go forward with him as the starting PG or does Kahn think he can convince Rubio to come over here this summer giving him this lineup? Fortunately, the Wolves don’t have to make that decision until the summer, but if Kahn really wanted to, I bet he could trade Flynn/Rubio and the Wolves 1st for Evan Turner.
This would give Kahn a lot of veterans and some great young pieces behind them. Iguodala and KMart will always have value and if things didn’t work out, Kahn could always move them next year. Taylor would commit to a lot of long term deals, but I think it is also better than going fishing in FA where it is the most inefficient way to add players.
Dalembert, Hollins, Whiteside
Love, Pekovic
Iguodala, Brewer
Martin, Turner, Ellington
Rubio/Flynn, Sessions
Why would Philly trade for Al’s big contract when they already have a 6’8 guy who camps out in the left block making 15 million a year?
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
I'm sure I see the difference in overspending on a free agent
and trading for Iguodala’s contract. If he can’t help the Sixers with a superior squad around him how on earth is going to help us substantially here?
Ultimately we can’t invest tens of millions to get from a 20 win squad to a 27-28 win squad. And our flexibility is gone.
We’ll make a small trade or help someone, but that cap flexibility is staying. I’d back us in to be under the cap at the start of next season.
Free Alando!
Are we sure that the Sixers, minus Iguodala, are a superior squad?
I actually agree and think that, as multi-faceted as Iggy is, his contract just isn’t quite worth it.
But I always do find a kind of logical flaw in the argument that you should avoid acquiring players from losing teams because if they couldn’t lead their teams to success, they couldn’t lead ours either. That’s not necessarily true. If you remove Iguodala from Philly, I think we have a significantly better team than them. If you add him to our team then, that gap further widens. The fact is that our team has good talent but is missing wing production. If you take a productive wing player and add him to the Wolves, even if he’s from a bad team, it makes the Wolves a lot better.
Fair point
But remember one of those trade scenarios involves us giving up Al Jefferson, so we are swapping our ability to score in the post for a wing with a long contract. So in that instance, his ability to produce become even more important. I’m not sure Love brings the same type of offensive game, even with Dalembert at centre.
My point wasn’t about Philly minus Iggy, it was about Iggy with that current squad around him. Thw W-L column suggests that at least this season, they are better than us, if only by a small margin.
Free Alando!
Gotcha..
And I wouldn’t give up Jefferson for Iguodala. I don’t disagree with you at all about this particular case, I was just disagreeing with a point that I see a lot of people make (about players from bad teams).
Canis Hoopus.......................
Where overvaluing Big Al’s trade value happens.
what do most good go very good teams say they are looking for? a big man. There are very few really good ones in the NBA. That has more value than you realize
by Kevin Love Jefferson on Feb 6, 2010 4:09 PM CST up reply actions
No one can gauge that accurately unless a trade actually happens
Either way, Al is a borderline All-Star when healthy, so why is it a stretch to think he could get moved for another borderline All-Star?
by pagingstanleyroberts on Feb 6, 2010 4:47 PM CST up reply actions
good big men are harder to find and therefore have more value than good wings.
Also if Al was healthy and doing his 20:10 thing for a winning team, he’d be an allstar every year.
by Kevin Love Jefferson on Feb 6, 2010 5:02 PM CST up reply actions
I have a RED FLAG on Flynn's PG mentality. Remember the two on one with Brewer ahead of him. Brewer would have had an easy layup. Flynn kept the ball and ended up being fouled.
SMART, UNSELFISH PG always make the Brewer pass. Flynn either didn’t recognize that he should pass it to Brewer or wanted to score himself. [I’m guessing the latter].
When Flynn is close to the hoop he wants the points much more than the assist. Thats why we seldom see passes to Jefferson, Love and Hollins on Flynn drives.
Flynn has talent, but he is much more of a scorer than a facilitator.
by Kevin Love Jefferson on Feb 6, 2010 1:52 PM CST up reply actions
Then he will resign himself
to ending up as the sixth man type. Gotta love that we have Rubio then, right? It makes watching stuff like that soooo much less stressful.
by TheEvilProfessor on Feb 6, 2010 2:00 PM CST up reply actions
Has the four stages of Jonny Flynn begun?
I’ve been hard on him all year, but I’m coming around. As my wife says, he’s “Danger Mouse” out there. Capable of blowing up at any time for the better or worse. Always feels safer with Sessions in the game, but Danger Mouse is more exciting.
I’ll say this about Jonny. He has offensive talent. More so than any guard we’ve had here since Sam Cassell. I’m worried that his height is the limiting factor on defense. But if Hinrich can effectively guard shooting guards three to four inches taller, Jonny can potentially be effective against the 6’ 3" or 6’ 4" point guards.
I think he has plenty of potential to be, at the very least, a solid defender who isn’t a major weakness out there. He’s strong, has a great wingspan for his size and is incredibly athletic. He just needs to learn how to actually do it, because right now his problems are all compounded by playing like a moron on that side of the floor. He frequently doesn’t get around screens and gets caught out of position. It remains to be seen if he’ll make progress in that area, but the good news is that at least that stuff can be fixed.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
He would be perfect instant offense off the bench
but he probably won’t be a Wolf if that time comes. That’s the kind of realization that doesn’t kick in for a high pick until after a trade or two.
I don't think it's an issue of...
Flynn’s selfishness, or that he would “wants the points much more than the assist.” It’s an issue of court awareness, and understanding the angles and geometry of it. From everything I’ve seen and heard from Flynn, he doesn’t seem to be out for his own points at the detriment of the team or anything like that. But he does, at the moment, have a rookie’s court awareness. He’s always been able to drive and score, as this doesn’t require court sense nearly as much as it requires pure quickness and strength.
I know exactly the play you’re talking about, but had a different take on it. Yes, the better point guard play was to pass to Brewer. But I didn’t see selfishness as the reason he didn’t do it. I saw it as he took a bad angle on his drive. He went straight at the basket from the center of the court. Had he gone more to his left and come into the basket at an angle, the defender would’ve had to commit to him, leaving an open pass to Corey. The way he did it, the defender never had to decide who to commit to, so he never had an angle to get the ball to Brewer. It’s a basic 2-on-1, and Flynn ran it really poorly. But I don’t think he was being selfish.
Yeah, it's interesting
because it’s something that’s complete common sense. You really don’t even need to know much about basketball to understand fast break spacing.
I hope you are right. But I reserve my "Flynn is being selfish" argument as another option for consideration until it is proven otherwise.
And one more thought. Why is it that Flynn puts so much effort into driving but hardly seems to consider a simple dish to a big in the post when he is driving?
Flynn and Jefferson both need the 7 second rule. If you are not doing something with the ball in 7 seconds give it up.
Flynn needs to FOCUS ON driving to get assists. Thats half of his value as a PG who can get in the lane. He has started every game this season and I can literally count the number of dishes to big men on one hand. Thats just not good enough.
by Kevin Love Jefferson on Feb 6, 2010 3:35 PM CST up reply actions
Again think about DRIVE and DISH. I bet Flynn drives to the hoop 5 times a game. For 50 games times 5 drives thats 250 drives and I literally can't remember 5 dishes to big men. Thats 2% of the time when it should be about half the time.
It should be 50% drive and score and 50% drive and dish. Thats one reason he is blocked so often, every defender knows what he is trying to do.
That has to change.
by Kevin Love Jefferson on Feb 6, 2010 3:43 PM CST up reply actions
no its just a "guestimate" based on observation... but do you think I'm far off?
how often have you seen dishes to big men?
By the way, it should be 40% drive and score, 30% drive and dish and 30% drive and kick to jump shooter…
But you understand what I mean…. he does very little drive and dish.
by Kevin Love Jefferson on Feb 6, 2010 4:01 PM CST up reply actions
Driving to the hoop and dishing it to big men
is not as simple as you make it sound. It’s not this easy thing he’s choosing not to do. And I think to suggest that he should force the dish to the big man to reach some 50-50 ratio is kind of ludicrous.
Especially when our big men are generally terrible pick and roll players
Hollins does it well, but Al and Love are both a step slow on the roll
last season Love in particular did very well on pick and roll with both telfair and miller.
and with jeffersons skills near the basket, he could surely be a great pick and roll player… if it was emphasized in practice.
by Kevin Love Jefferson on Feb 6, 2010 4:04 PM CST up reply actions
Pick and roll is a lot about mobility
And no, Love wasn’t very good with it last year. Maybe good compared to the rest of the team. But compare him to KG, Stoudemire, Duncan, etc…..no way
And at any rate, THIS year we barely run any pick and rolls to begin with.
I agree pick and roll is rarely run this season but last season, we ran them often with the high pick for telfair and miller and Love was very effective at rolling and scoring or getting fouled.
He used his bulk to get a great position right near the hoop and the smaller player trying to cover him had no option but to foul or let him score.
by Kevin Love Jefferson on Feb 6, 2010 4:13 PM CST up reply actions
Love
Is quick on his feet, its just that defenders cut under him and force the guard to throw it over the top. He’s in great position a lot of the times but its a risky pass to him because there’s usually a much more athletic guy in front of him. I don’t blame Jonny or Ramon for not making that pass when it arises.
I think they're coming from the same mentality that Jackson has with the triangle
Showcase the team’s top threats in the 4th. They did the same thing late against Philly: give it to Jefferson time after time and let him go to work.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Feb 6, 2010 12:59 PM CST up reply actions
Tonight is as significant as any Wolves game can be, true.
Memphis isn’t a phenomenon I’m sold on. Frankly they’re reminding me of a sort of junior model version of the überBlazers who accrued all that talent for a couple of years, but who posted basically one-and-a-half solid records and no playoff success before being eclipsed. They got Randolph at a discount for his reputation, much like those Portland teams.
But games against either the Grizzlies or the Thunder, whom we get twice in the next 10 games, mean something. They’re a chance to see how that next step can go, and I want to see progress in those contests. Watching Corey match up with Durant, or the center rotation dealing with Marc Gasol, is fun. You want to see competitive games. Blowouts are a legitimate setback.
(Tonight is here, however, not in Memphis like the writeup says.)
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
Here's the kicker with Memphis...
…they have a core that, I think, can compete at a fairly high level. The problem they have is that they have absolutely zero on the bench and they have to make a decision on Gay. They are also a team that could fall apart in a HURRY if Randolph reverts and Gay gets a big offer.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Wallace hasn't had his redemption with me
Look at the roster moves he made last offseason. Darko for Q Richardson for Randolph obviously is a score in the short term, but then Zach is occupying almost exactly the same salary space Pau Gasol was in at the end of the day, and his chemistry reputation is on a par with Alex Guiness in “The Man in the White Suit.” (Even when he stops blowing stuff up and things wind up working, Alec tears apart the industry.) They signed Iverson, seemingly because they didn’t have enough ball-hungry guys who wanted to lead the offense, and once he was out the door (without ever suiting up in the home locker room no less) they decided to ink Jamaal Tinsley in Iverson’s place…..
Wallace seems to have made the “talent over all” decision that made those Blazers teams look so formidable for a season or two, only he’s made it in order to reach “.500 and a bit out of reach of the playoffs.” I’m not sure when you get to the tipping point on that idea. Sometime around when J.R. Rider compares himself to Willis Reed.
Memphis could get better. Thabeet could emerge some more, Darrell Arthur could get healthy and come out too. I’m skeptical.
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
Very well argued
Maybe because I had the same skepticism without all the detailed thinking, but that’s a nice collection of smart thoughts.
by dropstep on Feb 6, 2010 11:54 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
since memphis 1 win and 8 loss start, they are 25 wins and 15 losses - thats a 51 win pace for a full season.
memphis is an a decent team. If they could keep their current roster together, add some experience to a relatively young roster and also add a couple of good off the bench players with MLE or older veterans on the cheap, they could become a 60 win team.
But keeping their current roster together in small budget memphis is unlikely.
by Kevin Love Jefferson on Feb 6, 2010 2:06 PM CST up reply actions
By the way if we added a couple of good shooters and Rubio we'd also be a 50 plus win team.
by Kevin Love Jefferson on Feb 6, 2010 3:38 PM CST up reply actions
Memphis Depth
Supposedly Thabeet can be had for the right price as well. I’ve felt that you could offer a package of (Brewer, Gomes, and Sessions) for (Thabeet, Haddadi, and S. Hunter). It woudl shore up Memphis’ depth, and give us a center prospect in Thabeet. I’m just not sure if I could emotionally handle losing Brewer after all I’ve been through with him (no we are not dating…we’re just good friends).
I wouldn’t give up Corey for Thabeet either, but how about Gomes or Sessions and Utah pick for Thabeet? Memphis is two games out of 8th seed and could use the depth.
by TWolvesFanInLA on Feb 6, 2010 4:13 PM CST up reply actions
Memphis is all over the place looking for bench depth
They’ve reportedly had a lot of talks about Dorell Wright, Ronnie Brewer, and Chris Douglas-Roberts, among others, and are determined to add at least one of them by the deadline.
The stick there is that adding one of them still won’t put them above the luxury tax. So it doesn’t really give any indication if the small spending now means they’re willing to spend big on Gay over the summer.
Sessions on Memphis' radar
Point guard is the biggest complaint. With shooters like Mayo and Gay, the fact that Sessions can’t shoot would not seem to present any drawback.
I haven’t seen Thabeet play much this year, but, despite going #2, he surely isn’t impressing folks. Is there a chance Hollins is a better fit than Thabeet?
by TWolvesFanInLA on Feb 6, 2010 4:44 PM CST up reply actions
Look at Thabeet's numbers adjusted for time.
Marc Gasol is an extremely efficient offensive center, and he’s kept Hasheem off the floor. The guy’s numbers aren’t that horrible though. He’s rebounded better than I’d have expected, and per 36 he’s putting up 4 blocks. And 6.6 fouls, which is where the “rookie” part comes in.
He’s not an untenable prospect, not at all.
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
That's why they'll keep Gay
Basically, if Randolph reverts, they can still be decent with Gay. If Randolph doesn’t revert, they could be really good.
tonight
Marc Gasol is one of my favorite players in the league. Love watching him play. Can’t wait to see that frontcourt matchup.
It should be a very interesting game because this is really gut-check time for the Grizz too (horrible losses by the hands of Cleveland and Houston). So are they paper tigers (er, bears) or not?
by Rasho Revolution on Feb 6, 2010 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
Another obstacle...
Memphis lost by 18 at home to the Rockets last night. If gambling were legal, I think I’d take the Grizzlies to beat the spread.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Feb 6, 2010 1:02 PM CST up reply actions
I like Beaubois
For some reason after cataloging the several assets Presti wrung out of Rashard Lewis’s free agent defection last week, I find myself rooting for all of them.
Beaubois was the second of the three first round picks Seattle/OKC got for Kurt Thomas, whom they acquired with the trade exception from Lewis’s sign and trade. They dealt Beaubois for BJ Mullens on draft night, but it still “counts” in my book.
The Thunder still get one more first from the Suns in that Kurt Thomas salary dump. It’s still paying off a trickle of dividends.
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
Beaubois' upside = Westbrook with a jumpshot. That's scary.
by Rascal Flatts on Feb 6, 2010 9:16 AM CST up reply actions
He'll never be as physically strong as Westbrook
Westbrook has the frame to put on a lot more upper-body strength than Beaubois does.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Feb 6, 2010 1:06 PM CST up reply actions
He’s built like a shoot-first Rondo with a 3pt shot. Basically a physical doppleganger with completely inverted skills. They’re both like 6’1-2 and kind of skinny, but have crazy athleticism and absolutely ridiculous wingspans..
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
Good comp
They were drafted in a similar area.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Feb 6, 2010 4:49 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think that one counts for Presti unless Mullens pans out
The Mavs took Mullens because they knew the Zombie Sonics wanted him, and Presti took Beaubois after finding out who Dallas wanted them to take for them.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Feb 6, 2010 1:05 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, ultimately I agree
It’s not scorekeeping for Presti so much; I just like the idea that, in losing Rashard Lewis, the franchise got a trade exception that’s kept on giving in terms of talent. Still one more first rounder to cash in, too.
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
Sometimes, it's simple
when you make shots, you look a lot better than when you don’t.
I do agree that shortening the rotation and spreading the talent has been useful, and happily Rambis has settled on the correct guys to play.
That was a fun game to watch. But how did the Wolves get out-rebounded? I saw Love get pushed under the basket by Damphier once, but still. Wolves won that game by hitting their first shot, not by rebounding the misses and putting them back in.
by Dave T on Feb 6, 2010 11:41 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Start Hollins, and there are tradeoffs.
Guy cannot rebound.
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
Great win, but ugly game
It still amazes me that teams can press the Wolves like that and have it be so effective. It seems like the Wolves’ scoring drought ended the moment the Mavs stopped playing full-court man to man. The clutch shooting from all comers was impressive, and Flynn’s two plays (the one mentioned in the post and the layup where he went away from Love’s pick because Dampier was hedging to that side and got an open lane) at the end show exactly the maddening nature of his game.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Feb 6, 2010 1:10 PM CST reply actions
It amazes me teams don't do it more.
Even when the Hornets (for example) played Chris Paul and Darren Collison together, Rambis was reluctant to go to the two-PG lineup. Late in games when you’ve got Corey Brewer on the floor, any time he touches the ball the other team can try to scare up the ball. The Mavs announcers were right about our guards under late pressure.
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
There really seems to be a correlation
between Flynn’s assists, Hollins’ +/-, and winning. I’ve said it a few times now, but I really like the combo of Flynn/Brewer/Hollins out there. Hollins seems to work really well with Flynn and Brewer is just a more compatible fit with a more athletic group of guys while Ellington is better with Sessions, Love, and Big Al (not saying he is better than Brewer, just that it is maximizing the talent). I’d have a hard time placing Gomes or Wilkins, but I feel like they could really play with either lineup and be just fine. Gomes has a better shot and all around game, but Wilkins brings slightly more hustle/energy, defense (IMO), and movement.
This is a good potential theory -- need sample size
I sort of agree with you, but I want to see if teams adjust. I’m just wondering if we’re in the doldrums of a season right before the all-star break, and all of a sudden Corey’s shooting the lights out and Hollins is playing long mintues with the starters.
Let’s see if teams can figure out what Hollins is doing well and take it away. Let’s see if he becomes a foul machine again. Let’s see if he can consistently grab more than 3 rebounds. If we play 7 more games and he’s playing even close to the way he has the last 3, then you may be onto something.
And everything looks Brew-Tee-Ful when Cbrew is shooting 3/4 on 3s and getting fouled on another attempt. . .
Agree with
needing a sample size for further analyis on Hollins. If he does continue to play at this level that would make another unbelievable storyline for this team. The first being the unexpected emergence by Brewer. This would be two players who would have dramatically increased their asset value. Makes us that less deseprate.
Definitely need to see more
but I still think, even if we aren’t in the middle of an 8 game win streak (….) that the two of them together on the floor is a better combo than Jefferson or Love and Flynn. He just seems to suit Flynn’s game better and Flynn seems to suit his “game” better.
I’ve been defending Brewer around here for months now (alone?), so I’m glad he is finally doing his part in saving my fingers from all the typing.
Gotta be careful not to read too much into this win
Even Cuban has been saying the Mavs are playing like crap.
However, seeing agree with SNP on the take of needing to add a big guy to take some of the heat off AL and Love. If the Wolves keep Jefferson and Love, they are one 25 MPG big guy away from being as good as any team in the front court.

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