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Wolves Draft History: Stats people please help?


It seems like there's a lot of statistically orientated people on this site.  Just wondering about something related to the Wolves inability to move up even 1 spot in the lottery despite numerous chances.  I've always been curious about the probability of having repeated high lotto seedings without capitalizing.  What's the correct way to compute this?

Would it be correct to muliply the probabilities that we didn't move up each year?  For instance, we had .924, .916 and .905 probabilities of not picking 1st, 2nd or 3rd last year.  Or multiplying together, a 76.6% chance of not moving into the top 3.  Is this correct?  If so, I went back to thru the infamous 1992 (Shaq) draft and multiplied all the chances we had to move up (or not move up for computation).  A couple years we actually maintained our top 3 status so I just multiplied the 2 opportunities for us to not move up those years.  I rounded off and found...

The Wolves had a 3% chance of not moving into or higher within the top 3 once in all our lotto chances since 1992.  There was a 97% chance of us moving up at least once during all of those lotto forays, but we haven't done it.

I'm no stats guy though so maybe someone can correct my error.

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I'm currently pretty tired, but...

When you are trying to figure out something like this, yes, you multiply the probability of them not doing something – but you’d go the instance of them not moving up for a single year, so if you had .924, .916, and .905 probabilities for picking 1st, 2nd, and 3rd respectively for a year; then you’d actually take 1-[(1-.924)(1-.916)(1-.905)]=.745 and not (.924*.916*.905)=.766

Kind of funny you ask, because I keep a sheet for the Timberwolves lottery history just to depress myself… here’s the cut and paste of it:

The Timberwolves lottery history to see if “they’re due” for the #1 pick.

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-draft-lottery-history/

Originally the weighted lottery had 11 teams, but used a format where the worst team had 11 chances, and the best team had 1. It then progressed to the more current format in 1994 where they are heavily weighted, but still had 11 teams; then it progressed to 13 in 1996; and finally 14 in 2004.

Here’s the Timberwolves the overall odds that they would land the #1 pick in each season:

1990: 7 out of 66 chances for the #1 pick, or 10.61%
1991: 5 out of 66 chances, or 7.58%
1992: 11 out of 66 chances, or 16.67%
1993: 10 out of 66 chances, or 15.15%
1994: 164 out of 1000 chances, or 16.4%
1995: 182 out of 1000 chances, or 18.2%
1996: 77 out of 1000 chances, or 7.7%
1999: 89 out of 1000 chances, or 8.9%
2005: 5 out of 1000 chances, or 0.5%
2006: 53 out of 1000 chances, or 5.3%
2007: 53 out of 1000 chances, or 5.3%
2008: 138 out of 1000 chances, or 13.8%
2009: 76 out of 1000 chances, or 7.6%

Now for the calculation: Probability that they should have won by this point is one minus the probability they wouldn’t have won by this point. The probability they wouldn’t have won by this point is .8939*.9242*.8333*.8485*.836*.818*.923*.911*.995*.947*.947*.862*.924 which equals .23872. So the probability that they should have won the lottery by this point is 76.128%

How about their chances for a top two pick, since they’ve never won that before either.

Since DX doesn’t have the odds for the #2 pick on their database for the early years, I’m going to make my best guess (it’s conservative) at what the odds would be in those years for the Timberwolves to get a top-2 pick.

1990: 21.02% for a top-2 pick
1991: 15.29%
1992: 31.82%
1993: 29.29%
1994: 32.81%
1995: 36.00%
1996: 17.54%
1999: 18.67%
2005: 1.09%
2006: 11.32%
2007: 11.3%
2008: 28.04%
2009: 16.03%

Calculation: .7898*.8471*.6818*.7071*.6719*.64*.8246*.8133*.9891*.8868*.887*.7196*.8397, which equals.04373. So the probability that the Timberwolves should have got a top-2 pick by this point is 95.627%

by Casperkid23 on Feb 9, 2010 8:25 PM CST reply actions  

Haha, this is the biggest fail ever...

Another “because I’m tired” mistake:

1-[(1-.924)(1-.916)(1-.905)]=.745

is supposed to be
1-[(1-.924)plus(1-.916)plus(1-.905)]=.745

I’m getting off the internet, don’t mind me. In the future I’m previewing every single post I make.

by Casperkid23 on Feb 9, 2010 8:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Thanks

Thanks for correcting me. Depressing no matter what.

by Blond Ricky on Feb 9, 2010 8:59 PM CST reply actions  

What would be more interesting

would be to run a test to determine with a certain amount of confidence, how likely it is that David Stearn rigs the lottery. Don’t remember how to do this…

by Mplax on Feb 9, 2010 9:40 PM CST reply actions  

As I was looking at the probabilities above

I couldn’t help thinking of Stern as well. There were posts about the lottery a couple months ago and I did some research and noticed how often the big markets (New York, Chicago, and LA) have won the lottery over 25 years. The results defy the odds in a ridiculous way. Defying odds once over 25 years is one thing (random things happen), but I have little doubt the lottery has been rigged…the results (not every year, but several years) just defy odds and logic too much.

by Rumblebee on Feb 10, 2010 12:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Not going to go and do CI's, but...

If you quickly look at the DX site, and then compare the “Top-3 %s” on each slot and the actual Top-3 results thus far in the 20 years they have listed, they basically fall in line in. Not buying any kind of rigging theory (and I’m not saying you do), because cities like Portland, Charlotte/NO, and SEA/OKC; are on the same “lucky stratosphere” as LAC, Chicago, and Philadelphia.

by Casperkid23 on Feb 10, 2010 3:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Got a link to that?

I would like to take a look, sounds interesting.
I don’t think he has it rigged, but I would like to know what statistics say about it. Also, I wonder if there is a correlation between prospects being highly touted and big market teams winning (kind of sounds like it isn’t with the Oden/Durant thing at the very least). I think it’s just a lot easier to say it is when we are sitting in MN, which, despite the plenty of opportunities, have never moved up in the draft…

by Mplax on Feb 10, 2010 4:13 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm not saying the lottery is rigged every year

and of course cannot prove anything. However,

Since the lottery was implemented, the most dominant, sure thing guy (Patrick Ewing) just happened to end up in New York. Chicago has won the lottery twice, and Los Angeles has won the lottery three times. The three biggest markets in the country have won the lottery 25% of the time.

Also, the worst team in the league has only won the lottery three times since it became weighted, and ironically one of those times was when a massively struggling team was able to get the home state hero (Cleveland/LeBron). Also, teams with less than a 5% chance have won three times (this greatly defies the odds by the way) and one time just happened to be a long suffering big market team, again being able to bring home the local hero (Chicago/Rose).

It’s just funny how even though the odds are against it, the lottery just happens to work out EXTREMELY well about every four years from a marketing standpoint. I also find it interesting that in 25 years of the lottery system, there have maybe been 6-8 sure thing, #1 above the rest picks, and three of those years the lottery has worked out perfectly (Ewing, LeBron, Rose). Call me suspicious….

by Rumblebee on Feb 10, 2010 4:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Hmmm, maybe Stern will rig it

…so that we get the 1st pick. With an under the table understanding with Kahn that we trade the pick down a couple, and we take home town guy Aldrich.

That would not be a bad scenario, if we could get a decent wing + Aldrich out of it.

OK ok, I’ll remove the tinfoil hat now. From where I’ll remove it, I’m not saying.

by timmuggs on Feb 10, 2010 5:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Stern's rigging deserves more serious thought

but often, seemingly unlikely events are more likely than one initially suspects.

For example, I’m pretty sure that under current and previous lottery regimes, the worst team was more likely to get the third pick than the 1st pick and possibly most likely to get the fourth pick.

I’m convinced that the NBA does not understand the difference between “having the best chance to get the 1st pick” and “having the 1st pick be the pick your team is most likely to get.”

by littleboxes on Feb 10, 2010 3:21 PM CST reply actions  

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