Unforgivable
by Mplax on Mar 17, 2010 3:24 PM CDT
97 comments
So it seems to me as if the Hoopus community is going through another one of those times where everything seems hopeless. Understandable, seeing as they haven't even been in a game won a game for quite some time. But my question is this, apart from the obvious answer, Sasha Pavlovic losing, what is the one thing that has or could happen this season that has been unforgivable? The one thing that if it happens or continues to happen beyond this year, will lose you as a fan?
Is is something that can be controlled by Kahn? Drafting, signings, scouting, etc. Rambis? Lineups, the Triangle, too much/little time for certain players, losing his players, etc. The players? Lack of effort, complaining too much, not complaining enough, not taking responsibility, not showing the desire to improve/succeed, more DUIs, etc. Or something different altogether? No luck in the draft and you're out of here? Something I missed? Let's fill this thread up with the worst thing that you can think of that has or could happen to this franchise. I think we need to get it all out. I'd love anything from a well-thought out reply or a one or two word response saying what it is that is irking you the most. No optimism, that's for another thread. I say we get everything out. Maybe if Kahn has someone reading this site they will catch on to a few things that some of the most important fans that this team still has will no longer tolerate.
I'll start. For me, it's a toss up between f*cked up rotations and lack of effort. But I think when it comes down to it, I would rather see us lose by 20 trotting out strange lineups (as long as Sasha isn't there, please no more Sasha!) than I would see us lose by 1 in a game that we could have won if it seemed like our team gave a crap. So "effort" would be the thing that annoys me the most about this team. And also probably why Corey is far and away my favorite player on this team (and also why I will irrationally defend him when he goes 1-7 from the field, but refused to give up). What is it for you? Let's rip this team apart! At this point, they deserve it. I'll maybe post a thread later this week that is the opposite of this one.
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Love coming off the bench and getting <30min per game
With Hollins starting coming a close second and Flynn’s PT over Sessions lagging just behind.
Showcase Love and
then send him to Golden State for their #1 pick. His attitude is wearing on the staff
and on the team. He’s playing for himself, not the Timberwolves. He never wanted
to be here, anyway. He always wanted to play on the West Coast. It’s not just
that he’s miffed with the coach; he never wanted to be in the Midwest..
Showcase him, and get something good in return. He’ll never be happy here
no matter the circumstances. With all the positives he can bring, he does have
negatives, not to mention his current attitude: He’ll never be an adequate
defender, he’s not quick, and there is the question of whether he is injury
prone, plus, Golden State would get a pretty good guy with a smaller contract
than, say, Jefferson. I say up his minutes, get the ball to him on every possession,
pad his stats the last ten games and get another 1st round pick.
"It's not too far; it just seems like it is."
by WillistonCoyote on Mar 18, 2010 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions
disagree strongly on your assessment of Love's value as a player...
He may have an attitude, but it is hard to argue that it isn’t warranted given the way he has been treated this year. Love knows he isn’t a bench player, especially not on this team. And the reprucussions of being treated like one are very real for a person whose next contract will swing by several million dollars based on that distinction.
I’m not sure where you get the idea that he never wanted to be here, or only wanted to play on the west coast. Up until recently I didn’t here much chatter about him having a bad attitude and I certainly can’t think of any quotes identifying that he wants to play on the west coast.
If the current administration wants to undervalue what they have then I guess they should send him off, but that will be a good sign for me that the Timberwolves are taking a very wrong approach to achieving any future success.
Love in an interview prior to the draft
said he wouldn’t mind playing in Minnesota….He was interested in New York as well, who had the 6th pick in 2008.
F-ing up the draft year after year after year
This is the one that has me near the breaking point. McCants over Granger. Foye over Roy. Brewer over Noah. Love over Lopez. Flynn over about 5 better PGs. Selling practically all our 2nd round picks because Glen wants $$ and we don’t know who to draft anyway.
The only way this team is going to pull out of the ditch is through the draft. And if we keep drafting “Best Bench Player Available” I will stop following the team.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
If we don't walk away from this draft
with at least two legit starters (one of which will be a really good starter), I may just stop watching for a while…always have my gopher bball to fall back on.
A Darko Fan since 2010!
by TheEvilProfessor on Mar 17, 2010 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions
I think they get Mbakwe back
for next year which will make them very good in the 4 and 5 spots. Carter can play SF when we want to play big. Need to see some real improvement from Rodney to get more of the 3 minutes from Damian.
The gophers only have a very off chance of getting white back. The real kicker is if they can get a guy like Cory Joseph. I like Nolen’s intensity, but I think Westbrook’s ocassional moodyness kind of caught on with him.
A Darko Fan since 2010!
by TheEvilProfessor on Mar 18, 2010 8:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Cory Joseph would be huge
He would make this a top-10 team, assuming Mbakwe plays and the rest of the significant underclassmen return. Especially if Tubby can settle on an 8-man rotation.
I think Rodney still only plays about 10 MPG (assuming they have Mbakwe, Sampson, and Iverson healthy for the season).
PS: I am an optimist in real life
But until Kahn shows some savvy in this area it is tough to have hope. The Wolves also absolutely need to move up into the impact player zone of the draft for once. Just once.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
I don’t think there is anything so far that is unforgiveable. Unforgivable to me would be not setting the team up to a get a Top 4 draft pick in this 4 players strong draft, and they did as best as can be hoped considering Jersey’s run at the worst record in league history.
Flynn may turn out to be a poor choice, and his passing and facilitating have been bad, but I still can’t figure out how much of that is system based, because Sessions who was a superior passer and facilitator in Milwaukee has been just as bad statistically this season as Flynn no matter what this preference for minutes may be. That is the optimism, that somehow our system negates the roll of a facilitating PG which clearly no Triangle team ever had in years past. In that sense, Flynn can still be valuable as a driver and a shooter. Flynn’s 3 point shooting has been better than I thought it would be post draft, so I guess that’s something that’s positive.
In conclusion, going into this season we knew it was about rebuilding and getting another high draft choice. Yes we’re full of despair at just how poor the product has been, but if this team had 5 more wins that took us further down the lottery pecking order, I would have less hope.
How dare you bring your optimism into this post! :)
Unforgiveable might be too strong a word… but I wanted to see what fans thought was the worst thing that was happening or something that they couldn’t tolerate their favorite team doing any longer. Something that needs to change for you to fully hop back on board. Maybe before you’d ever consider buying season tickets, for example.
I for one have been and will be on board. I don’t know what this franchise would have to do to lose me completely. But it’d be bad… like move away from MN bad… And I’m not even saying I wouldn’t be a fan if they moved away, I’m saying I wouldn’t be a fan if they did something that had people calling for them to move onward.
We rely on the draft too much, making good FA signings and trades would go a long way to help out, I mean look at our record, when it comes to drafting players.
Name a team in the finals in the last 10 years besides the Pistons that didn’t have their #1 Option come from the draft I may agree with your premise of focusing on FA and trades. Then you look at who was able to make trades for such talent with the Lakers and Shaq and Boston with KG and you realize smaller market teams that aren’t desirable destinations have no chance with such a strategy. Sorry, but I think the best strategy isn’t to focus on other avenues of improving this team, but rather get better at the one hope we do have in improvement, the draft.
I sorta disagree..
Yes, Shaq was drawn to LA because of the market, but Kobe was drafted.
Boston got that championship due to personnel decisions—not FA preference. Allen and KG were both brought in from assets garnered fom the draft. Rondo, Pierce and Perkins came from the draft. The only free agents they brought in that year came because of the desire to win, not because of market.
Bottom line, good personnel decisions win championships—not market size or weather.
by SF on Mar 17, 2010 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions
My Point more was
That this team doesn’t have the luxury to live off FA acquisitions and trades while not relying on the draft. As you cite with boston their success in the draft was what allowed them to trade for KG and Ray Allen and speed up the maturation process of their team development. They could have tried to do what OKC did and build with all young players, but because they had Pierce they won too many games to get superstar help for Pierce in the draft.
You can’t make good trades without making solid draft picks to use as assets and you can’t lure top flight Free Agents to Minnesota without an already winning team. Like or not, we have to rely on the draft and we have to make better decisions because of that reliance.
Yes but those teams knew how to draft and than made great trades or signings to get to the next level, say what you will but the Mavs, Lakers, Celtics, Magic, Heat, and the Nets don’t go to the next level with out pulling the trigger on a major trade, BTW Shaq was easily the #1 the Laker teams when they had their 3 peat, we only have a # 2 in Jefferson (When Healthy) bottom line is we need more talent, what Taylor has been doing the last 5 years does not work, it only makes the team less attractive to the rest of the world.
As you say, those teams knew how to draft and because of that had the assets in place to swing deals to change their square parts to round parts or vice versa. Until we have player on this roster that is worth building a team around in this superstar driven league, any trade to better balance the roster is only going to have negligible results.
Defense
I don’t know if this coincides with effort or not, but this team will never win if it doesn’t improve on the defensive end. Maybe last nights debacle is to much on the forefront but their defensive rotations are inexcusable. They can run all they want, but it would help if they would also run back. Although I guess on the flip side, I’d rather see some really high scoring games if all they are going to do is lose anyway.
Right
They don’t get back after misses. They can’t set up Rambis’ “wall” if their backs are
still to the opponent when the opponent gets there, which is 99% of the time, and results in
a stuff or a lay-in. These guys don’t hustle back to the other end, though it’s been
stressed over and over…and the driver should be harassed out on top before he
gets to the lane so he either veers off or passes off, instead of getting a straight line
to the hoop when all of the T’Wolves back away and stand there watching.
"It's not too far; it just seems like it is."
by WillistonCoyote on Mar 18, 2010 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Lottery Luck(or unluck)
I’m not sure I can handle much more of the Wolves unluckiness in the draft lottery. If they end up with the 5th pick in the draft this year I think someone will have to file a formal complaint to Congress.
This would be heartbreaking. At some point the statistical odds of continued futility in the lottery have to start swinging the Wolves way to more positive results, but your right, getting the 5th pick this year after so many past lottery failures may stretch me to the breaking point. Any pick one through four I could live with.
While I agree we need to get lucky in the lottery for once,
past lottery events have no bearing on this lottery, if it is a true lottery. that is one of the fallacies of statistical measurements. past performance can not be used to predict future occurance in a random setting. and each draft is an individual event. but yes, getting anything less then 2 would be a huge blow. and prof positive of a curse on the wolves franchise.
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Mar 17, 2010 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions
You are correct...
In that each lottery is in itself a seperate occasion. But you also have to realize the odds of never moving up at this point in the Wolves history is also a statistical anomally.
while I agree with both of you
it is frustrating, especially when we always seem to land at x+1, where x is the number of stars in the draft spot. still, while not moving up by this point may seem to be an anomaly, in truly random settings stranger things have happened.
and by god, i want us to draft were we deserve for once, 1 or second. but if we still remain cursed it will end up being 3-5
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Mar 17, 2010 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I disagree
Cousins is a beat and would be more than worthy at #4. You trade Al for whatever you get, Cousins with a similar post game to Al is a good fit next to Love, and by all accounts is Taller and Longer than Al. Cousins physical tools are amazing. I will be excited to see his measurements to confirm just how big and long he really is, no pun intended.
Hmmm
I guess I haven’t read or seen that about his physical tools. He looks like a 6’10" guy with a hefty build. Kind of soft, but with strength. Definitely not a great athlete, but strong enough to move people around.
I would say that Blake Griffin and Derrick Favors have amazing physical tools, and that DeMarcus Cousins has good physical tools.
Is Cousins really taller/longer than Jefferson? If so, I guess that’s worth something, especially next to Love.
His attitude still worries me, and if Kahn chose Flynn based largely on character/charisma, I don’t expect him to get impressed by a guy who yells F-bombs in his coach’s face.
I guess I’d rate the initial draft lottery reactions as:
- - Celebrate
- - Celebrate
- - Similar feelings to 2008… mixed — eventually I’ll talk myself into Derrick Favors as a Rubio sidekick.
- - Initial depression. After enough medication, I’ll talk myself in and out of DeMarcus Cousins. Not a good experience, overall.
- - Begin search of a new team to cheer for. Probably a great sense of relief after enough time and collection of thoughts. Rather than buy season tickets, I’ll fork out some dough for good seats whenever (Team X) comes to town, so I can cheer for them and against the Wolves.
So, in the end, #5 is actually not a bad option, possibly even the best option. #4 is the worst, just behind #3.
Based strictly on the eye test
Cousins looks taller than Big Al. His frame looks a lot more muscular and toned verus Big Al. Again, my eyes have failed me before, but if he is taller.
Just looking at List measurables, Cousins 6-11 270, Al 6-10 260. Cousins frame looks like it could still full out with more muscle. I just think, strictly based on the eye test, Cousins frame looks similar to Shaq than Big Al. Not comparing their athleticism of course, as someone like Shaq was a freak ahtlete for his size.
If Cousins measures out 2 inches taller than Al at 6’8.25" and with a several inch longer wingspan, we would have someone with center skills and a center body and with 5 years to learn to exceed Big Al’s level of defense, I like that bet.
It's hard to judge height
Kevin Love looked pretty tall when he was playing in college, but he doesn’t look tall in the NBA. So, maybe the height difference between Cousins and Al isn’t as great as it seems when we watch Cousins play against college players and Al play against pro players. Still, Cousins is probably/definitely taller, and that would be a nice perk. He’s also younger. The only thing that allows the slight possibility that we might be able to trade Al for Cousins, is that Al is proven (well, at least he’s as proven as a player who’s played on losing teams his entire pro career can be) and Cousins seems dangerous.
by oblivionspocket on Mar 18, 2010 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Favors/Cousins Physical Tools
You are correct that Cousins doesn’t have great athleticism but he is very strong around the basket.
As it goes with Favors I’m not sure he is quite the athlete people have been lead to believe. I’ll be interested to see how he tests out at the combine. I will be very suprised if he has the speed and leaping ability of Blake Griffin. I do think he is bigger than Griffin is, so he has that going for him. Don’t get me wrong he’s no slouch but I’m not sure he’s on the same level of athleticism as a Dwight Howard, who he’s been compared to.
Most of what I've seen from Favors...
is on SportsCenter and youtube. That doesn’t give much of an impression on what sort of player he is, but it makes it pretty clear that he’s a freak athlete. At 6’9" he’s doing dunks in high school that have won NBA slam dunk titles, and a few that haven’t ever been attempted.
I like to think of Favors
as a slightly more athletic Al Horford. Skill-wise, time can only tell.
Love doesn't want to play here...
…and it makes no difference if the coach is Rambis or anyone else. He’s used
to the West Coast life, he’s always wanted to play on the West Coast, and has made
no secret of it. He will never be happy here. I say bundle him off to Don Nelson
and get his #1 pick in return. Just sayin’.
"It's not too far; it just seems like it is."
by WillistonCoyote on Mar 18, 2010 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Odds
#1: .199
#2: .188
#3: .171
#4: .319
#5: .123
Sadly there is over a 60% chance of 3 or worse.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Mar 17, 2010 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Odds
I know the odds are less than 50% that the Wolves get a top 2 pick. My biggest concern is that they get the worst possible pick that they could, #5. Obviously Wall and Turner are the top 2 picks, but I think Favors and Cousins have also seperated themselves in the second tier, which would make that 5th pick even more heartbraking.
What I don't get
is why, if we are the second worst franchise, do we have such huge odds of drafting 4th?
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
The top 3 picks are determined by the lottery
and all 14 lottery teams have a chance to win. So the Wolves have to get lucky and win a top 3 spot, or they get pushed down to 4 or 5.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Mar 17, 2010 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Draft_Lottery#Process
Scroll down a bit for the table
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Mar 17, 2010 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Why am I thinking about this wrong?
If we’ve got 199 combinations out of the 1000 possible, why does our percentage go down to .188 to get the 2nd pick? Some teams wins #1 so their combos are out of contention so the total goes down and we still have 199. So…shouldn’t 199/1000-x be greater than 199/1000?
Why do the top 2 teams odds decrease for the 2nd/3rd pick, the 3rd team stays roughly the same and the rest improve?
Because 20% of the time we get the #1 pick
and therefore won’t have any chances left for the #2 pick
Got it...
The odds that we get #1 are greater, but if we don’t, the odds that we get #2 go up slightly.
Yeah, it would be easier to see if you added them together.
The chances of getting EITHER the 1 or 2 are
.465 for #1 team
.387 for #2 team
.313 for #3 team
.245 for #4 team
etc.
So we have a 19.9% chance of getting the top pick, a 38.7% chance of getting one of the top two picks, 55.8% of top 3, 87.7% of top 4, and 100% of top 5.
"Pinch-bunters don't have a ton of value, even with the Twins"
by Steven Ellingson on Mar 19, 2010 1:31 AM CDT up reply actions
also,
it is abad system if a bad team has a better chance of moving down then of staying put.
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
Not winning a championship with the second
best power forward of all-time, oh wait we already did that.
No but I’d have to say drafting and Rubio, If Rubio turn’s out to be a bust or won’t come here (which I think he will just sayin) that’s going to hurt this team a lot, if they don’t come out with a well above average starter in this years draft I will pick a new team.
by Bad News Wolves on Mar 17, 2010 6:25 PM CDT reply actions
I don't know about unforgiveable,
but if they don’t try to win games next year, I’ll be angry. I don’t mean I want them to go out and get a bunch of veterans or anything, but I want to see them use the roster they have to best effect.
Play the best players. Tighten the rotations. Don’t start Ryan freaking Hollins.
by Eric in Madison on Mar 17, 2010 6:40 PM CDT reply actions
Ahhh
so a twist on my own least favorite. I chose drive/effort of the players and it seems you would like to see the drive/effort of the coaches change? I agree, I don’t want to hear Rambis and Kahn say they don’t care about the record anymore. There is a nice balance between development and winning and playing Hollins and Pavs is on the wrong side of that line.
you guys have cap space right? do you advocate getting some veterans though to try and start
winning? i am personally always of the opinion that development is more or less occurs with lots of playing time, but i wonder at what point losing too much (and by too much) really hinders development.
"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."
Yes
Especially if they trade for a second lottery pick or something, I would like to see them use their cap space on a vet or two (hopefully on short term deals) that have experience on winning teams.
Having an entire roster of young players who have done nothing but lose doesn’t strike me as a good way to proceed.
by Eric in Madison on Mar 18, 2010 7:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Unforgivable
Bringing back both Jefferson and Love next season.
Rubio never playing in the NBA.
Finally getting what is deserved in the lottery, drafting the right player and having him look like a future HOF’er, then tearing his Achilles in February (Wolves luck).
Nothing unforgivable
Insufferable: going through this long, painful season dedicated to evaluation (and development), and not learning one positive thing about this team. Honestly, the only things I learned with any degree of certainty was who did not have an important role on this team. I’m a Love fan, but I don’t think I learned as much about his potential this year as I should have. I did not learn to what extent Sessions has value. I did only learn that I would not miss one other player on this roster if they were shipped off, with the exception, perhaps of Darko, who will also not play enough for a full evaluation. Every one of those ridiculous coaching decisions that served no purpose for winning or evaluation or development is an offense.
Inexcusable: dicking Love around. I am assuming that the decisions that seem arbitrary to the outside world are not accompanied by good communication from Rambis. This could be wrong, and poor communication is not what I expected from Rambis. But from all I can see it does not seem that Rambis does a good job at checking in with his players.
Indefensible: the decision to draft Flynn at #6. I tend to cut a lot of slack on most draft picks, which typically look worst in hindsight. OK, at #6 the BPA is probably a PG, and there are huge red flags for Jennings, and maybe you’re worried that Curry is too Foye-like. But Flynn made no sense. If anything trade down and you will still get a better PG. Enough.
There’s probably more
The Kevin Love trade is already a positive for the Wolves
Love is probably as good as Mayo, and the Wolves saved significant money and won’t be paying Jaric next season. The issue now is where does he go from here:
1. Stays with the Wolves and has a solid/very good career.
2. Stays with the Wolves and never gets much better.
3. Gets traded and never gets much better.
4. Gets traded and has a solid/very good career.
Good Luck figuring this on out Mr. Kahn!
I think
We may be able to trade Love for a good perimeter player, especially if we package Flynn with him, Its clear that Rambis doesn’t see much in Love so we may as well trade him, someone has to go, Love and Rambis just aren’t getting along well at all.
I don’t know if I jump to your conclusion, but I think you need to figure out the draft order first and decide. If the Wolves get 3 or 4, Cousins may be a better fit with Love and Favors may be a better fit with Big Al, although Favors could probably fit well with either, my point is Al and Cousins probably wouldn’t be a good fit. If your forced to take Cousins do to BPA at # or #4 I would hope Al would be shipped out.
In conclusion, I hope the Rambis Love feud isn’t something that becomes a broken bridge between Love and the franchise.
Its either Rambis or Love but
Someone has to go, Love is sulking and playing like crap now, unless we’re going to get rid of Rambis, Love has to go, its just not working out between the two. Besides if Al can continue to improve and rebound from the ACL tear he will be better than Love.
You are 100% correct
The entire off-season depends on the lottery and where the Wolves pick. Other moves will evolve based on what they get with their 1st pick.
Trade Love.
A guy who has always wanted to play for a West Coast team will never be happy
here, no matter the circumstances. If it were another coach other than Rambis,
it would make no difference. Love wants to be out West. Do a deal with a West
Coast team. You can get a #1 from Golden State, There’s the Lakers, the
Clippers, Trailblazers or whatever. Just know this: Love will never be happy in the
snow. That’s the bottom line; and he will whine until he gets what he wants, and
that can only impact the rest of the team negatively. Love is about Love, not
about his teammates. He’s dogging it. No matter what situation he’s in, he
should still give all he has, even if all they give him is 5 minutes a game.
"It's not too far; it just seems like it is."
by WillistonCoyote on Mar 18, 2010 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions
seriously enough with the Love wants to play for a west coast team
Until Rambis put him on the bench and gave him inconsistent playing time, ranging from 12-33 mins a game, also with Wolves losing game after game, everything was fine then.
He has never complained about playing in Minnesota, period. He has complained about playing time, not making rookie all star team and finishing 6th in ROY voting. But that’s his competitive nature. Love is a team player if you haven’t noticed throughout HS, college and the NBA. So I don’t know where you got this “Love is all about Love” idea.
If I was averaging a double double in less than 30 mins (the only guy in the NBA doing so) on a team with 14 wins, I’d say something.
I still believe this team is under performing.
I want to believe these coaches actually know what they are doing. But why so little time for Sessions and Ellington? why so much for Flynn and Hollins? Do they know how to coach point guards in this system? Why do other teams get so many wide open layups compared to us? Forget about KG he couldn’t even help us anymore and he seems to be showing his age now anyway. I would like to see Kahn draft 3 good rookies and keep them all. Then maybe turn Pekovic and 3 2 round choices in for something worthwhile. How in the heck can a San Antonio team with one inexperienced point guard and guys in their 30’s beat us by so much?
Nor sure about Sessions
but I think Ellington is being used pretty well. Ultimately, he is a 10 MPG game shooter who gets a couple 3’s per game and averages 8 points. Doesn’t do him any favors to get extra playing time on a bad team and make him think he is a starter. Guys like him are valuable for a couple minutes per quarter, as a late 1st rounder he is fine.
Ellington should start at PG
look how bad Flynn is he can’t run the offense, he can’t defend and now he can’t even score, Ellington plays solid D and has the outside shot to compliment Big Al, so why not let Ellington play the PG?
Under performing?
Have you seen the crappy players on the roster? Combine Crappy players with injuries to Big Al and Love, the only 2 good players on this team and this is what you get.
The only thing...
Would be selling off draft picks Sarver-style while letting young players leave and playing for the lottery every year. I’m not going to go into Tea Party-esque complaints about a regime that’s trying to clean up the mess from the previous regime.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Mar 17, 2010 10:13 PM CDT reply actions
to clarify...
I’m not accusing anyone posting on this thread of that. It happens on the Strib boards often, though.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Mar 17, 2010 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions
No accusations assumed!
I just figured I would make a thread for everyone to get a good rant in. I plan on making one in a day or two entitled: Why we forgive the unforgivable. AKA Happy Fun Time.
To add to the bad drafting.
Its been disappointing watching Al in a system that doesn’t fit him at all. And after being here for three years now can’t somebody teach him how to pass and kick out to open three point shooters on the perimeter. But yes having Curry would be great right now. That dude can shoot the lights out. As much as I hate to give him credit Skip Bayless was right…we are the TImberfools after that draft. There is still time though, hopefully Flynn develops nicely down the road.
NO
I will not say that Skip Bayless is right. I just can’t.
If the team moves, or sells Jefferson for Pennies on the dollar, or starts a new rebuild project in three years – those may make me lose my fanship for this team.
Timberwolves - NBA champs 2013!
(used with permission - Wolf in MO)
by frankenhoops on Mar 18, 2010 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions
Not only can he shoot...
he sets the table and he changes direction quicker than anyone I’ve ever seen. Very difficult
to cover.
"It's not too far; it just seems like it is."
by WillistonCoyote on Mar 18, 2010 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions
The year one strategy of playing with an incomplete roster, mismatched to the system the coach wants to run
Whether you see it as tanking or playing the hand they were dealt given the timing of the Rambis hire – it has been ugly for fans and players alike. I don’t believe it possible to take steps forward this way, and unsurprisingly we have yet to see any.
Losing by 20 night in and night out...
Is pretty friggin awful… I’d rather watch any college or most high school games over the Wolves right now as at least the youngsters look like they want to win. If there is any form of tanking going on it’s pathetic… who the hell thinks this team is good enough to catch the Warriors? and lets be real… the Nets aren’t gonna catch us.
Sasha Pavs getting court time makes me want to cut myself… what a complete waste of a basketball player… I’d much rather see A. Tucker… Although I’d be awful surprised if he didn’t completely suck too (at least his young).
The rotations are absolutely vomit inducing. Why does Ellington never get a start? Ryan Gomes is proven to be one of the worst starters in the league… Bump Corey to the three and lets give Ellington a start. The only reason I can see for not doing this… is Corey seems to have found some offense at the 2.
Finally…to a few of our bigs (Darko is exempt)… I couldn’t give a shit if every single one of ‘em fouled out every single damned game… play some inside fricken defense or get the hell of the team… I can’t emphasize how annoying this is to watch.
This team is unbelievably difficult to watch… I love watching basketball but whatever this team is doing right now sucks.
Put some Fing effort into it guys.
They're tanking
Just look at this roster, its filled with scrubs combine that with Injuries to the only 2 real players (Love, Al) and this is what you get.
Trading the draft pick before the draft
is about the only thing that would drive me away. Then it has a 100% of becoming a #1 or #2 pick. But there’s a 100% chance the wolves would never trade the pick before knowing what it is, so we’re safe, right?
Next (really first) on my list, is taking more than one castoff from a single team. Why couldn’t Dallas find a spot for either Hollins or Jawai? Now we know.
Next is taking one castoff from several teams. There was a reason no one wanted Pavs, and we know this one now, too. Seriously, it would have been better to rotate D-league prospects on 10-day contracts throughout the season.
Lastly, the lack of explanation of things that are not making sense to us fans. (The staff better know what is not making sense to the fans, so maybe not knowing is at the top of this list!) Is Hollins doing good things in practice? Examples, please, to show why he starts. Or, why are they not seeing what happens with starting lineups that include Sessions and/or Love? Other people have been rotated through the starting positions, why not these two? Because Jefferson needs to start every game? Because Flynn needs to start every game? Let them also see what others are giving up to come off the bench. That would teach them humility and appreciation for what they are being given.
Basically, only the GM and coaches could drive me away from a team. The players could only drive me away from being a fan of theirs. There would be other players on the team I could root for.
Showcase Love and
then send him to Golden State for their #1 pick. His attitude is wearing on the staff
and on the team. He’s playing for himself, not the Timberwolves. He never wanted
to be here, anyway. He always wanted to play on the West Coast. It’s not just
that he’s miffed with the coach; he never wanted to be in the Midwest..
Showcase him, and get something good in return. He’ll never be happy here
no matter the circumstances. With all the positives he can bring, he does have
negatives, not to mention his current attitude: He’ll never be an adequate
defender, he’s not quick, and there is the question of whether he is injury
prone, plus, Golden State would get a pretty good guy with a smaller contract
than, say, Jefferson. I say up his minutes, get the ball to him on every possession,
pad his stats the last ten games and get another 1st round pick.
"It's not too far; it just seems like it is."
by WillistonCoyote on Mar 18, 2010 6:12 PM CDT reply actions
of what?
He’s made no secret he wants to play near home. Anyway, if he’s dogging it,
and I think he is, then he’s not a guy I would want on my team. Every time he
isn’t happy with something he’ll take it out on whomever he’s pissed off at by
sabotaging the team for his own selfish purposes. That’s cancer. It spreads.
Get rid of him. Can I make it clearer? I like his talent, but I prefer explosive,
athletic players. He’s certainly not that. You think he’s got foot-speed, or gets
down the court at a hustle? and look how many times he gets stripped down low.
Often.
"It's not too far; it just seems like it is."
by WillistonCoyote on Mar 18, 2010 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions
seriously stop saying Love wants to play for a west coast team
Until Rambis put him on the bench and gave him inconsistent playing time, ranging from 12-33 mins a game, also with Wolves losing game after game, everything was fine then.
He has never complained about playing in Minnesota, period. He has complained about playing time, not making rookie all star team and finishing 6th in ROY voting. But that’s his competitive nature. Love is a team player if you haven’t noticed throughout HS, college and the NBA. So I don’t know where you got this "Love is all about Love" idea.
If I was averaging a double double in less than 30 mins (the only guy in the NBA doing so) on a team with 14 wins, I’d say something.
No he's not an athletic player
but there’s plenty of great players that haven’t been athletic. Rambis is screwing with his playing time, you’d probably be frustrated too if you got 12 minutes one game and 30 the next when you know you can help the team.
I’ve never heard anything bad about Love’s attitude, in fact all i’ve heard is good. Sure he looks frustrated right now and he isn’t giving his full effort in the game but no other wolve is either. Love has spoken out about some things this year but I have no problem with that.
I’m still waiting to see where he has said he want’s to play for a west coast team, please show me some sources and i’ll lay off but I follow the wolves closely and have never heard Love say anything close to this.
by Bad News Wolves on Mar 20, 2010 12:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Move
I would stop following the Wolves if they move out of state.
Try living out of state
and constantly asking yourself why you bother. It’s not like the local team (GSW) has offered anything better this year, but it’s not hard to imagine some combination of factors that makes me significantly divest from his team and spend my precious NBA viewing time switching on the TV rather than cuddling my laptop (in contrast, every single Warriors game is televised locally).
1. Ping Pong Ball nightmare
2. A Flynnesque pick (Flynnish?)
3. An historically bad decision in what has been termed the Jefferson/Love death match.
4. Nellie retires and/or the Warriors finally get sold.
5. A healthy squad of Curry+Azubuike+Maggette+Randolph+Cousins+whatever they get for Ellis is as fun as it sounds
6. Rambis rotation decisions continue to blow.
7. The only change in the Wolves starting lineup next year is the insertion of one new draft pick.
8. NBA League Pass rates go way up.
9. Williston Coyote gets his way and Love is shipped out to GSW for 3 of their D-League all stars.
10. My link to the Wolves, Canis Hoopus, becomes less about intelligent analysis and witty banter, and more about knee-jerk, antagonistic jackassery.
Maybe to address #10
We need to provide a link to Rube Chat for those that want some good old fashioned antagonist jackassery.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Mar 19, 2010 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions
I understand about out of state living...
I live in Dallas now but I can’t help myself from routing for the Wolves. What can I say they have been my team since they began? If they move though that’s it though.
AZ for me
I do live outstate, I live in Arizona. I choose to follow Minnesota because that’s where I grew up and they are my team. Plus, I have the logo tattooed on my arm!
by scottysnowski on Mar 19, 2010 11:59 PM CDT up reply actions
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