Darko will remain a Timberwolf if...
by TonyO on Mar 21, 2010 2:18 PM CDT
123 comments
Darko Milicic had a rather startling answer after practice this morning when Phil Miller asked him whether he'd return to the Timberwolves next season if the team guaranteed him a starting job and 30 to 35 minutes a game.
He said yes.
Now, he also said the team would have to make off-season moves that proves things are bound to get better. He was very clear this 0-4 road trip from which the team returned Saturday was truly miserable. He finished the trip with a 16-point, 12-rebound game Friday in L.A. He missed the final five minutes because of back spasms he attributed to conditioning issues.
But he also indicated the right environment where he can grow and develop as a player -- not money, destination or other factors -- is most important to him.
It sounds like he still wants to live the NBA dream, but without having to live up to the expectations of the guy drafted No. 2 ahead of Camelo Anthony, Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade.
He said he doubts any other NBA team would make him such a guarantee, so basically suggested Minnesota is probably the place for him in the NBA if he decides not to return to Europe.
Of course, the Wolves don't seem willing to guarantee Kevin Love a starting job and 30 to 35 minutes a game, so...
If Darko is your long-term starter, would that have to mean Love or Al Jefferson gets traded this summer? I can't see Love -- and certainly not Big Al -- being happy as a sixth man permanently.
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I could not make that promise
If I were Kahn/Rambis. I like Darko as much as the next guy, but lets be realistic. He isn’t that good—certainly not good enough to build your lineup around in that way.
by Eric in Madison on Mar 21, 2010 2:23 PM CDT reply actions
I wonder if Kahn/Rambis could say...
… that, yes, in all likelihood Darko would get 30 mins a game (barring some trade for a legit 5) next year. I’m not entirely sure that any of the bigs in the draft is ready for that sort of burn next year. Down the road it’s tough to say what Darko might or might not be, but I have a hard time seeing any athletic and defensively capable big in the draft who (a) is ready to contribute major minutes right away and (b) has a ceiling significantly above where Darko can play right now.
For those reasons alone I would almost give Darko what he wants (assuming a reasonable contract, of course). But a few other things make me sympathetic to the idea. First and foremost, minutes given to Darko probably give us a better shot at winning than minutes given to some other rent-a-center or raw project type. This team cannot suffer another season like this one without seriously poisoning its youth and souring its chances at Rubio. Secondly, Darko is already one of the two most effective defenders on our entire team. We need more committed defenders rather than fewer committed defenders if we are ever going to reach contending status. Third, I think we are likely to see more big-man draft value lower rather than higher in the first round. I would argue that we will see something along the lines of last year’s PG draft: a few steals driven late into the first round by the sheer number of competitors at their position. Securing Darko allows us to throw significant assets at an elite perimeter prospect, confident that we can pick up at 4/5 a Holiday type prospect or a Collison type bargain later in the first round.
We need a step towards defensive competence and a winning culture, Darko is the most NBA ready of any of the set of centers {Darko + 1st round picks}, and we can get better value with a patience-oriented pick in this year’s crop of big men.
I agree with most of this
But I will say…I think we are overstating Darko’s defensive abilities. Having a big who actually hedges on the PnR has so amazed us that I think we’ve missed that he still gives up a ton of shots at the rim and isn’t the best rotator in the world because he lacks quickness.
I like him, and I’d be happy to have him back. Maybe I even would make him that promise, but he has real limitations which we should keep in mind.
by Eric in Madison on Mar 21, 2010 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't get me wrong...
I totally agree that he has limitations, and some of them relatively serious. And I agree that seeing a PnR hedge from a Timberwolf not named Garnett makes me feel like I saw Sasquatch ride a unicorn ride past my office window.
I guess what I’m saying is that Darko is the most constructive choice among our current options, especially with respect to the next season of play. I don’t see him as a major component of a championship team (although I’m not sure I’d rule that out as a possibility yet), but if he competes defensively, plays strong, fast, team-oriented ball, and doesn’t eat up a lot of cap space next year, I think it’s a good route to take. And I’m not sure we will do better with any big not named Favors in this draft in either the short or the long term.
I agree with your original
point above. There isn’t one big man in this draft – not even Favors – that can give us 25-30 minutes per game of play and have more of a positive impact than Darko next year. Sure, guys like Cousins and Favors will eventually be better players, but as rookie big men who are still very young, they will surely be mistake prone and struggle defensively.
by Rascal Flatts on Mar 21, 2010 7:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Funny as it may sound
If Darko had played overseas the last six seasons and was coming over now, he would probably be a top-10 or top-15 pick….makes sense to keep him on that fact alone. His upside is definitely higher the Cole Aldrich.
I think Darko definitely has higher upside than Aldrich.
by TWolvesFanInLA on Mar 21, 2010 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions
exactly
he’s 7’1" and ~270 with a decent understanding of the game. he can pass, he can play decent defense – and likely improve his defense with conditioning and a bit of coaching. he’s 25. i’ll take that over a project any day of the week…and twice on sunday. what’s aldrich, like 22 now?
in the laker game, he had 16 and 12 pretty effortlessly… i like that.
happy to offer redemption
If he wants to show he can play I’d be happy to help him out. The last thing we need is a project at center, learning to lose as we try for a top draft pick… for the 6th year running.
by midlife crisis on Mar 22, 2010 12:58 AM CDT up reply actions
What are our other options at the 5...
…if we don’t draft Cousins?
by CourtsideATX on Mar 21, 2010 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Very true
He isn’t that good, but he isn’t that bad either. I think it gets back to the rarity of 7-footers with some semblance of skill. When you can get your mitts on one, you should try to hold onto him.
by Rascal Flatts on Mar 21, 2010 7:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Part of me has longterm
dreams of a Favors/Darko lineup. I think between the two they would provide solid point productions just by being in the right places to take advantage of the ball movement and would be dominant defensively. I know that would likely mean moving Al and Love, but wouldn’t that also be enough to get Turner? Say a threeway trade with NJ (who misses out on pick #1) to get their pick by them getting Al and Love or some combination of players and picks?
We would go from a team with matchup problems we have to cover to a matchup nightmare for other teams in about a year. Just my opinion though…hope springs eternal.
A Darko Fan since 2010!
by TheEvilProfessor on Mar 22, 2010 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions
But you have to figure Favors is a ways away from really contributing
He isn’t going to dominate as a rookie—young, raw bigs never do.
I like Favors as the third pick, and I do think it forces you to trade one of Al or Love, and go with Darko/Love?/Favors. I will say that drafting Favors is the least likely of the top guys to actually help make you better next season.
Of course, one would hope that whatever you could get for Al (or Love) would help.
by Eric in Madison on Mar 22, 2010 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah
in my ideal world, trading Al is enough to get NJ’s pick while kicking in the charlotte pick. That way Love and Darko Start, and we nab Favors to develop for long term rotation matchups. If we get the #2, we also nab Turner. Getting Turner and Favors should be enough. Maybe grab another wing prospect with the Utah pick. Food for thought.
A Darko Fan since 2010!
by TheEvilProfessor on Mar 22, 2010 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions
I wouldn't mind
taking a chance on Aminu. The idea is that, if we end up moving Al, adding a guy like Aminu (a SF/PF) would give us great flexibility next to two great low post passers in Love and Darko. Favors has the greater star potential but would cost a lot more to get. Aminu might be had at the Charlotte pick, and assuming Darko is coming back would mean we don’t have to target a big to get it done.
Aminu, at SF/PF combined with Brewer, at SG/SF, could give quite a unique look. Both are long and crazy athletic, both are top notch defenders. Both are somewhat suspect shooters but great in transition and crashing the glass and wreaking havoc. Again, assuming Al departs, Love and Darko are both great passers out of the low post for them, and Sessions and Rubio would be great play creators for them. Improving our defense by 4-5 points a game alone would probably add 10 wins to this team.
I’m not saying this is what we should do, but I wouldn’t be against if it did happen.
Growing my own "Darko-stache" since last Monday.
by biggity2bit on Mar 22, 2010 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions
Or perhaps
this guy at SF. Could be great pickup at Charlotte’s pick.
Growing my own "Darko-stache" since last Monday.
by biggity2bit on Mar 22, 2010 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree on Vesely.
I’ve mentioned this a few times now, but I think Vesely could be a really useful piece in that he allows a lot of defensive length at the 3-spot in a slightly bigger frame than Brewer is genetically able to offer, and has the added virtue of being tall enough to give minutes against the stretch-4s that pose a monumental challenge to our current set of bigs. I think to a lesser extent Aminu could be a similar type of piece, with more bulk for the Lebrons and Pierces but less potential to give significant minutes at PF (a rich man’s Ryan Gomes?). Additionally, I have to think seeing him gather lobs from Rubio would put butts in Target Center seats.
for that matter
Watching Brewer posterizing guys off passes from Rubio will put butts in TC.
Growing my own "Darko-stache" since last Monday.
I should clarify...
that I want lobs to Vesely. Seriously, Youtube that stuff. It’s ridiculous.
Interesting, I was thinking more in the 25-30 range.
The guy has skill’s and his physical build is pretty rare. I would be okay with bringing him back as the starting center next year but I wouldn’t give him 35min a game, that’s a bit much.
by Bad News Wolves on Mar 21, 2010 2:29 PM CDT reply actions
Hello.....I'd guarnetee Darko a starting spot in a second.....
He’s a talented big that makes others better and doesn’t need the ball. Add in two 1st round picks and a free agent and were talking play offs baby……….
Next year we will still be in a "talent evaluation" phase..
..so I would strongly consider making Darko the starting C. However, there is no way to account for Rambis’ seemingly inexplicable rotations. Currently, only Al and Brew are averaging even 30mpg, so I would see this as a longshot.
"I can't see Love -- and certainly not Big Al -- being happy as a sixth man permanently."
I don’t think this team has the luxury at this point of saying, “Hey, here’s our starting five.” Nor has Love proven that he is a starting 35-minute-a-night PF, and although Al is their best option right now and has earned it on offense, his injuries, defense, effort, and future cost give one pause before saying, “Okay, good. We’ve got the PF who will lead us to a championship. Now let’s get four more guys.”
There are 96 minutes at PF and center. If Al, Darko, and KLove split 86 of those (30/30/26), it leaves ten minutes of jumping and fumbling for Ryan Hollins. I’m alright with those numbers for next year, especially with the injury history of the three main characters.
Also, depending on whether the Wolves go cheap or go for wins, and if they don’t get a top two pick, I could see moving Love or Al Jeff for more perimeter help, and drafting Favors or Cousins to pair with the remaining PF and Darko.
PAY DARKO!
How can you write such a perfect post, but completely ruin it
by even considering giving 10 MPG to Hollins? This could have been your best post ever, ugghh!
Seriously, PAY DARKO! TRADE HOLLINS for 10 practice jerseys.
Favors
He would be the absolute perfect compliment to Love and Darko. He can play the 4 or 5 and exudes raw power and athleticism. I would definitely look to move Jefferson if we somehow landed Favors and Darko decided to stay.
by Rascal Flatts on Mar 21, 2010 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Favors might be BPA but
This team needs a wing player in the worst way. After watching Turner dismantle the Gophers, I want Turner over anyone.
The question becomes...
whether we keep Love-Jefferson-Darko, and add a wing, or trade one of them for a wing, and add Favors or Cousins.
It probably depends entirely on where we’re picking in the lottery.
I think
we draft a wing, try to keep Darko and bring over Pekovic, and trade Al for the best player we can.
Growing my own "Darko-stache" since last Monday.
by biggity2bit on Mar 22, 2010 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Pekovic
just isn’t a fit on this squad….not unless we completely blow up the frontcourt and replace everyone with a bunch of pogo stick athletes and length. Then we could probably use a guy like Pekovic that can get us some good old fashioned low post scoring. But right now the lack of mobility and length is just killing us. Plus he may not want to come over to the NBA unless he is guaranteed a decent amount of minutes.
by Rascal Flatts on Mar 22, 2010 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions
True
I was more thinking of him in as the Super-Rhino bench player. He’d make a great able-bodied big to pound on other centers in the WC, but Darko would be our main big guy and we’d still look to get some pogo sticks. In essence my take on it is that we need to fundamentally shift away from low-post scoring dominance in the Al Jeff model in order to better integrate and accelerate the development of our other players. However that doesn’t mean that I don’t want to completely give up bruising low post scoring, rather I’d like to see only around 15-20 minutes of it a night. To me I’d rather take a flyer on Pekovic (an asset we already have) than take one on a Monroe, Alabi, or Whiteside IF a more promising wing/pogo stick prospect at the 3/4 or 4 is available at the Charlotte pick. Pek’s not a perfect, but he’s still a fine player who allows us more draft time flexibility. That’s all I’m saying.
Growing my own "Darko-stache" since last Monday.
by biggity2bit on Mar 22, 2010 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I think the problem
is finding enough minutes to keep both him and Darko happy. And are we willing to pay a guy MLE money to play 15-20 minutes per game? He is a dominant Center in Greece that has not been in any hurry to come to the NBA. He’s not coming over unless he gets minutes and a decent contract….I think he’s of more value to us as a trade chip.
by Rascal Flatts on Mar 22, 2010 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions
That's the only way I like Whiteside actually
if we are already loaded in the frontcourt and could use him specifically for guys like Garnett and Nowitzki. Guys who aren’t a threat to post him up and push him around and then we could use his shot blocking ability and his stretch defense ability. Otherwise I would be extremely worried about using him every game for 20+ minutes.
But what if Turner and Wall are gone by the time we draft?
The fact may be we just can’t get Turner. So then what do we do? We go with the best talent available and that is probably Favors or Cousins.
by Rascal Flatts on Mar 22, 2010 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Maybe he'll sign if we offer him a
8 year 184mil deal, worked with Mauer.
by Bad News Wolves on Mar 21, 2010 5:20 PM CDT reply actions
In the sense that Darko can both defend and score...
….can move the ball, and has enough NBA experience to not need a year of a sharp learning curve, he’s probably a better option than anyone we can pick up from the draft or free agency. So why not?
30 minutes of Darko a night, paired with say, Favors, Davis or Cousins….that’s a frontcourt with some real potential.
Is he going to guarantee the Wolves that he will get/stay in shape?
If so, the low end of the range (30 min) doesn’t seem like asking too much based on the team’s needs. Pretty big if, though.
Need to read this closely
It was Miller who set the parameters in the question (starter, 30-35 min), not Darko. He simply agreed that he would come back under those conditions. Frankly, who would not.
The much more promising thing in the report was that money/location was not the deciding factor. That, my friends, is huge for us. He is more interested in his development and the overall increased performance by the team.
I am convinced that he will show up in shape, knowing that he plays. He was in good shape in Orlando and his 1st year in Memphis. He is not habitually out of shape.
Kahn should lock him up for 3 years, with a nice salary. It takes tremendous pressure off the team needing to find 2 key pieces immediately (big 5, big scoring 2) and allows us to focus on just one.
by Just A Fan on Mar 21, 2010 5:40 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I still think they need a pogo stick big
that can guard face-up 4’s and help protect the rim, but yeah, Darko would help solve the problem of matching up against the big Centers. That’s the problem with Jefferson and Love. You actually need two kind of bigs to cover up for their defensive weaknesses – a big 5 and an athletic 4.
by Rascal Flatts on Mar 21, 2010 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions
I was thinking more along the lines of
Udoh, Sanders, or Stanley Robinson with one of our later picks. Of course if we draft #3, then Favors would help solve the problem for us.
by Rascal Flatts on Mar 21, 2010 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions
You are so correct
Darko would be playing 30 MPG now if he were in better shape, so why not. I don’t think I’d commit to 3 years, although I might give him 2 years with a team option at a really nice salary so he gets paid if he performs but the team isn’t stuck if Darko just finds a way to perform at contract time. Not sure what you mean by a nice salary, but with their payroll for next season I think they could commit to $5 million, then trade Hollins to save some money.
If this team is lucky enough to land a top 2 in the lottery, I really believe if they solve the center with Darko they could package enough assets to get Wall and Turner!
I'm interested
in what people think the Wolves could offer to another team that would make them give up on John Wall or Evan Turner at a rookie contract rate: Love, Rights to Rubio, future first, take back a bad contract?
Rubio, a quality young player, and something else like Charlotte's pick or Pek's rights
But only for Turner. I don’t see a team trading out of the top spot, aside from maybe Utah.
by CourtsideATX on Mar 21, 2010 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm think Flynn and Hollins for the #1, maybe add Ellington
J/K
Kinda like what C..ATX says here. If the Wolves are keeping Darko, then a couple big guys become expendable. Hollins isn’t worth much but someone probably take him for nothing because he’s young and fairly cheap. Either Pekovic, Love, or Jefferson goes in this deal. The Wolves could definitely take back a bad contract. Would rather give up Flynn or Rubio (who wouldn’t). Probably the Charlotte pick. A sneaky thing could be one of the 2nd rounders, because a team might use it to turn into cash on draft night.
PoorDick
That is the big question… and I think that most of the teams in those spots will be keeping Wall and Turner. The TWolves do not have the chips to get up in that range, save the possibility where we’re picking 3rd and one of the Top 2 covets Derrick Favors. Maybe something like Favors and Ricky Rubio could get us John Wall, or Favors and Kevin Love could get us Evan Turner. Something to that effect.
If we’re picking 4th or 5th, forget about it. What team would want Wesley Johnson and Kevin Love or Al Jefferson for Evan Turner? It might have to be something like Ricky Rubio, Kevin Love, Wesley Johnson and a future 1st Rounder or the Charlotte Pick. Is that worth it? I don’t think so — I’d rather just wait for Rubio and do something else in this draft.
Opposite question
What would it take from another team to get you to part with pick #1-5? If people truly want to win sooner rather than later, isn’t it at least worth considering a trade for more of a sure thing? This might be the most effective way to use cap space. Sometimes it works (Chandler for Brand), sometimes not (Gasol for Abdur-Rahim), but it’s worth a thought.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Mar 21, 2010 11:26 PM CDT up reply actions
No thank you if it's 1 or 2 (Within the parameters of realistic offers, obviously).
But if we’re in the 3-5 range, I think I’d seriously advocate trying to package the pick with some other assets to see if we can reel in a big fish.
Agree in general
I’d really like to see the team re-sign Darko. He has looked like a great fit on the team at both ends IMO.
I actually think both the 2 and 3 are equally big holes.
Brewer and Ellington at SG have exceeded my expectations but both seem like quality bench guys vs. starters.
Gomes and Wilkens are bench SFs and of lower quality than Brewer/Ellington IMO.
JAF – since you mention the 2, is the team planning to slide Brewer to the 3, or are they happy with Gomes, or ?
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Mar 21, 2010 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions
3 years is too long
Just look at what we have with Hollins. I would pay him (and even over-pay him) for a 1 year contract. The 1/2 season has been pretty good, but I’d like to see what he comes in to training camp looking like next year and he may decide he wants to go back to Europe and I don’t want him on the bench whining for 2 additional years. 1 year. He can head back to Europe during the lockout.
by Cedarpenguin on Mar 22, 2010 7:41 AM CDT up reply actions
Yup, the part hinting at wanting redemption was key. I wouldn’t give him any guarantees, but I would coddle him a little during negotiations. You come in and say “we can’t guarantee you a set amount of minutes as it’s not fair to the other players, but we can guarantee that you’ll play a lot if you show us you’re serious and show up in shape.” Then you explain how this is his best chance to prove his detractors wrong and show that he can be part of a winning team and offer him something like a 2 year deal with the second year as a player option so he can opt out if he’s not comfortable.
I think if you talk sense to him he could very well be convinced to stick around. It sounds like he’d relish a chance to actually make something of his career and prove that he’s more than just a draft bust.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
Mid level exception money
is what I was thinking. So, $5M range. Still leaves us with plenty of money for a 2nd tier FA, plus we can spend a couple of picks on addressing the issue at 2.
JAF
any insight into the Love/Jefferson deathmatch? Has the FO talked about any particular FAs yet? Anything about Josh Childress or Ronnie Brewer in particular? Or even my new favorite FA, David Lee (if we trade one or both of Love/Jefferson)?
The staff
is consumed by scouting duties right now with so many potential lottery picks playing in the NCAA. We also have a pretty big contingent of people headed to Europe right after the season to scout current/future/other players. Plus, an extensive in house evaluation summer plan for existing players is in process.
It does not sound like any “scenario” playing will be done until the lottery order is established.
Any word
about who’s going to stay in the FO after their contracts run out and who might be gone? Any rumors about whether or not Kahn is going to bring in some of ‘his’ guys and who they might be?
Growing my own "Darko-stache" since last Monday.
by biggity2bit on Mar 22, 2010 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions
Depends on the draft
As PoorDick states, 96 minutes for Al, Darko, Love and Hollins is 30/30/26/10. If we draft Wall, Turner or Johnson at the top, we can snag a defensive big at the Charlotte pick that needs to be developed like Whiteside or Alabi to get the Hollins minutes, and this rotation could work. If we get Favors or Cousins, they are going to need more than 10 minutes a game. I would have to be certain a trade could be worked out for one of Love or Al under those circumstances otherwise Darko is would be fighting for minutes, unhappy, maybe out of shape, and we would have wasted some money.
I'll give you Alabi
but we already have Hollins. what do we need Whiteside for? if they were both in at the same time the only play we’d run would be called “the one where i wander around and look lost”.
25-30 minutes for Darko - sure
for next year, absolutely
and maybe he turns into something more with a little lovin’ care
The funny thing is
that he’d never get more than 30 minutes per game in Europe. Guys like Fran Vazquez, Nikola Pekovic, and Tiago Splitter don’t even sniff 30+ minutes per game, so he sure as heck isn’t going to do better overseas than what we can offer him in terms of minutes.
by Rascal Flatts on Mar 21, 2010 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Good point...
…and what about the frequency of games, here vs. Europe? I’m not certain, but I imagine Darko will play more minutes per game AND he will play more games over here.
by CourtsideATX on Mar 21, 2010 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Starting to seem like Darko will be back...
…as long as Rambis continues to like his play and we don’t draft Cousins. Darko is a good fit for our system and our team needs. Plus, i hear that the center position is the easiest to learn in the Triangle…are you listening, Hollins? :)
No problem here making him the starter, but I agree that 25-30 minutes of burn sounds more realistic (Bynum minutes). MLE money sounds about right as well.
But like the Zgoda mentions, Big Al or K<3 would have to be moved. Pekovic’s rights would also likely be traded. Keeping Darko would solve a problem and give Kahn more assets.
It would have been nice...
if he would have asked what darko wants (starting, consistent playing time) and not exact minutes. I agree we should sign him for around $5million (if he can get in shape and improve some) because this would allow us to trade jefferson easier, hopefully for something that allows us to get favors.
Then after getting the second pick a line up of rubio, turner, brewer/trade love?, favors, and darko actually looks fairly promising.
I'm curious
as to how many of you who are saying ‘no’ to Darko are the same people who rip the wolves for saying ‘no’ to Chauncey when he demanded a guaranteed starting spot in order to come back – keeping in mind in Chauncey’s case we already had a legit NBA point guard under contract, which is just slightly different from our current center position…
I’m sold on Darko. Pay the man.
The analogy breaks down...
When one considers that Billups was pulling down starter’s minutes and averaging 15+ per night for a team that finished with 50 wins. I’m not saying he’s not worth keeping, but I want this team to make smart decisions, and right now, it’s not clear that Darko’s market value is $5 million+.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Mar 21, 2010 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Checking out advanced stats, tho
at 82games and basketball-ref strongly suggests that, even in his limited time here, Darko’s been one of our top four players.
Growing my own "Darko-stache" since last Monday.
by biggity2bit on Mar 22, 2010 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions
If...
we keep Darko, I still hope we try to draft a young big man, whether that is a C or a PF. Actually it opens it up a little bit. You don’t HAVE to draft a center, you can draft a PF who could play either/or. Like an Udoh (who I really like) or a Whiteside with our Charlotte pick or a Favors or Cousins with our top pick. If what Kahn says is true (that there is a market for Love), then my preference would be to deal him. I hope Darko gets in supreme shape and comes back hungry.
Temporary Bobcats Fan - Actively rooting against: MIA, CHI, MIL, TOR
I'm not ready to deal from the top of our deck
How about we trade AlJeff instead of Love?
I like what was mentioned above – Darko, Love and Cousins as a 3 headed C/PF rotation. I’m getting more comfortable with Cousins if we get pick #3.
That's still a problem defensively in my opinion
All three of those guys lack quickness and mobility. If Darko stays, we really need a PF/C or rangy PF/SF that can guard some of the face-up 4’s that Love struggles with. Cousins doesn’t help at all in that department. Favors does, Udoh does, Sanders does, etc. I think if we draft Cousins, then Darko doesn’t stick around, because Cousins is going to eventually deserve the 25-30 minutes per game that Darko wants. And there is no way these two will play together much.
by Rascal Flatts on Mar 22, 2010 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions
+1
Growing my own "Darko-stache" since last Monday.
by biggity2bit on Mar 22, 2010 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Might work in the short-term
but in the long-term I think Favors has the potential to be a legit starting PF that swings to C with a guy like Love coming off the bench. Most games end with Favors and Love on the floor together.
C- Darko, Favors
PF – Favors, Love, TBD hybrid forward against small-ball teams
I just don’t see how we can make Pekovic work on our roster. Plus he is big-time ball dominant. I’ll bet Jefferson has better passing skills than Pek.
by Rascal Flatts on Mar 22, 2010 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, I meant it for next season.
Obviously as Favors (hopefully) developed, he would get more minutes, and Pekovic would probably dealt. I could easily see Favors starting and Love coming off the bench eventually, with either Darko or some other center joining them in the big-man trio.
Pek
Do you think he is worth more as a trade chip now (think “potential”) or later once someone knows he’s already in an NBA contract? How much do teams want out of that risk of the player not coming over. I don’t see Pek as having a lot of “potential”, we kind of know who he is and what he can do, so do we try to bring him over first to maximize our value, or does he have the most value trading his rights?
Sorry, not that I expect you to have an answer, more thinking to myself and your comment about trading him after Favors develops made me think down this path.
by Cedarpenguin on Mar 22, 2010 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions
I think...
He would come into the NBA and play surprisingly well for a rookie, post efficient numbers in limited minutes, and draw some Hollinger PER attention (maybe along the lines of Mareese Speights?), which would boost his trade value perhaps artificially high because, as you said, that’s pretty much what he will bring. A team would probably say, “Hey, he’s putting up a 12 and 8 in just 20 minutes, and he’s only a rookie!” and give up a little more than he’s worth, projecting him to improve more than he likely will.
I was just going to ask this same thing
And I agree with LoveTo, except instead of Speights, I would offer Scola as a comparison. Except more muscle and less finesse.
But I think Pek’s value will increase slightly once he actually gets here and proves he is worth a contract (IF he proves that). So you also have to ask yourself, is the risk that he will lower his trade value worth betting on the upside? Personally I think once he gets some good coaching here (Laimbeer seems perfect for his style of play) his value will rise moderately, though not much.
Some guys have hit upon this...
But why wouldn’t Rambis and Kahn guarantee him that if he works hard and gets back in shape while keeping his head straight? There are so few guys who come out of the draft ready to play that many minutes. Ready to go NBA centers are hard to come by and you guys have one, albeit an out of shape and occasionally disgruntled one (though he’s happy now that he’s playing)
If Love or Jefferson is angry coming off the bench then trade them. Rambis won’t play them together so dump one, with or without Darko. Cousins is a nice fit if you get rid of Jefferson. Love is more outside in to Cousins inside out and would give you balance like you have now, but with a player who should be able to understand his role coming off the bench and has shown he can be productive in limited minutes like he is playing at Kentucky right now. Darko gets in foul trouble? Move Cousins to center. Throw some courtesy minutes Jawaii’s way and you can split the 96 minutes..
Love 34
Darko 32
Cousins 20
Jawaii 10
That should keep everyone remotely happy and active and pending foul trouble those numbers could fluctuate.
Don't forget about minutes for Pekovic
Even if we don’t draft a big early like Cousins, Favors, or Whiteside you still have to find minutes for Pekovic. With Love, Pec, Jefferson, and Darko, we seem to have a competition for minutes.
I'd be surprised if Pekovic plays for the Wolves
by Eric in Madison on Mar 22, 2010 7:36 AM CDT up reply actions
Depends on Al
my leaning right now is to trade Al for the best player/value you can. Pekovic is such a nice backup plan to have for Al’s production, especially for the price. Best case scenario is you draft a wing (Turner), bring Pek over, and trade Al for BPA. Beggers can’t be choosers, and so just get the best talent you can regardless of position.
Growing my own "Darko-stache" since last Monday.
by biggity2bit on Mar 22, 2010 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
Sounds like the Strib guy said 30-35
So, maybe just a guarantee to start is enough with decent minutes (20-30 regularly). He really should start. We need someone inside who plays D. The Wolves really should try to move Al.
Part 2 is getting more pieces so he wants to stay (and a decent FA wants to come). The Draft is key. I hope we get a star player plus at least 2 other good players in all of this. We need a lot, so a minimum of a star (ET or Wall), 2 solid players, and Darko is a start.
Darko
This is pretty good news. I’d love to get Darko back for 2-3 years at 5M per year. The guy is only 24 years old and could absolutely keep developing.
by Mac of the MIAC on Mar 22, 2010 10:51 AM CDT reply actions
It's true
His upside is great. We all talk about getting Brook Lopez, but Darko could be a double double guy every night too who we already have an inside track on.
Growing my own "Darko-stache" since last Monday.
by biggity2bit on Mar 22, 2010 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Eh, not so sure
He’s never shown a knack to score much and his rebouding is average at best for his size. What I like is that he is the type of Center you can start the 1st and 3rd quarters with and he will play smart defense, eat up space in the paint, and help the offensive flow without making too many mistakes. He’s just a good, solid big man to anchor your team at the beginning of halves. But I don’t think he ever averages a double-double.
by Rascal Flatts on Mar 22, 2010 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions
He’s never shown a knack to score much and his rebouding is average at best for his size.
This part is key, though. He doesn’t seem like an animal on the boards, but he’s decent overall and his size alone gets him a couple a game. There’s always a play or two where he’s able to pluck a board away from the other team just by standing there with his arms up. Being his size is just a flat out huge advantage. I hope we can keep him for a reasonable amount.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
Perhaps
Supposedly he has a nice shooting touch, but I haven’t watched him enough to know. My point is that, if Al is no longer on the team and Darko plays more minutes and becomes a bit more of an offensive focal point, it’s not out of the question for him get 3-4 buckets a night and 1-4 FTAs a night. That would put him in the 7-11 ppg range. Rebounding-wise he’s average, yes, but still 8-10 a night with starters minutes isn’t out of the question.
The big kicker for me is that if Darko was in reasonable shape and playing 30 minutes a night right now, my expectations for him would be around 8 and 8 a night. With his size and talent level, especially in this offense, I think his potential is easily as a double double guy, and potentially as a 14-16 ppg and 10-12 rebs a night type player. Will he get there? Most likely not, but that’s where the Brook Lopez comp came from. And I should also clarify – I’m not saying he’ll produce like Brook, but that he’s rather like Brook-Lite (which isn’t a bad thing at all, at least for us).
If he’s serious about redemption and seeing what he can do, I think he’ll look like a far better and more productive player at this time next year than he is now (a year to condition, a year to work on his shot, a year in the system, a year with Laimbeer!)
Growing my own "Darko-stache" since last Monday.
by biggity2bit on Mar 22, 2010 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions
This Roster = Billions of Championships
PG: Rubio
SG: Rudy Fernandez
SF: MarKo
PF: Pekovic
C: Darko
6th Man: Oleksyi Pecherov
Never, ever play: Sasha Pavlobrick
Wooohoooo!!!
We’ll finally win a title!!!!!!!!
by College Wolf on Mar 22, 2010 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions
With the 5th pick in the 2010 NBA Draft the Minnesota Timberwolves select...
…Jan Vesely.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
BTW:
With Darko (Serb) and Pekovic (Montenegrin) already associated with the team I wonder if the Wolves would spring for a Croat player if he were really good. Here’s a good article on the subject:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/alexander_wolff/news/2001/07/03/hoop_life/
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Mar 22, 2010 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
With the 5th, no.
But I wouldn’t be disappointed with his appearance here next year.
I beleive Vesely is under contract at Partizan for a couple more years
It’s possible something could be worked out, but he’s 19, he doesn’t have the body to play in the NBA right now, and it’s hard to imagine him really helping next year.
by Eric in Madison on Mar 22, 2010 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions
True...
… he’s still pretty skinny. I guess I’m so eager for his type of length and athleticism on the squad that I’m jumping the gun on his availability and readiness; however, if we end up with a single undersized or defensively inept draft pick from this year’s crop I’m going to riot.
Yes
They must find full sized players.
by Eric in Madison on Mar 22, 2010 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Wow we suck
We’re talking about Darko like he’s David Robinson or something, He looks great because we’re compared to Hollins. I’d rather work something out with Memphis and pry Thabeet away since they don’t need him.
Name me an NBA player bad enough to make Thabeet look like David Robinson
because even Hollins isn’t that bad.
Thabeet>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hollins
Thabeet doesn’t get playing time because of Gasol but he has looked decent the few times I’ve seen him play.
Don't forget Hamed Haddadi
Cuz he’s eating up the rest of that PT :)
by Mplax on Mar 22, 2010 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Only because he has more rebounds than fouls
But you’re making the argument that Thabeet is better than Darko. Is that right now? Because if it was Thabeet that we had stuck out there for 20-30 minutes per game recently I don’t think the board would be suffering from weird, unhealthy Thabeet mania. You implied that Hollins made Darko look like Robinson, but no one can make Thabeet look like the Admiral.
Not Quite but.....
Darko is a headcase and he didn’t put any effort in while in NY, as evident by his lack of conditioning, while Thabeet has no issues and is a hard worker with good potential. So while I wouldn’t say thabeet is the better than Darko now, he definitely has more positives, Memphis just happens to be stacked with quality bigs.
Thabeet is having.........
a decent game at the moment.
that may be true
but at least Darko really knows what he is doing out there…you can’t say the same for Thabeet.
A Darko Fan since 2010!
by TheEvilProfessor on Mar 22, 2010 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions
All I said was I felt he had more upside, the guy is only a rookie, he has been playing decent ball since Gasol went down. I really don’t understand the infatuation with Darko.
If the whole point is that the
wolves will play the triangle, Darko’s style of play fits it much better than Thabeet’s will…at least on the offensive end. The thing that Darko provides more than anything else is lineup flexibility. Because he doesn’t have some large hole in his game he gives the coach a little more leeway in lineups for matchup purposes. After having Love or Jefferson to tinker around that’s kind of nice.
Thabeet isn’t big enough and way too soft to guard the bigger centers in the league. That’s all.
A Darko Fan since 2010!
by TheEvilProfessor on Mar 23, 2010 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions
Good quote from Ball Don't Lie
<I think Kevin Love(notes) should threaten to retire and play overseas next year if he isn’t promised a starting slot and 35 minutes per game in the NBA in 2010-11. Darko can teach us things, you know. >
Did that wrong
I think Kevin Love(notes) should threaten to retire and play overseas next year if he isn’t promised a starting slot and 35 minutes per game in the NBA in 2010-11. Darko can teach us things, you know.
Abou Darko
here’s some statistics I find interesting. From 82 games at center (Darko’s 17 game as T wolf) Darkos EFG% .439 and per 10.3 His opponents EFG% .408 and per 9.8 at center Hollins .541 and per =11.5. his opponents have had an EFG of.539 and per of 17.3 . Jefferson has an EFG at center of .497 and per of 21.1 but his opponents have a EFG% of .564 and a per of 18.5. Also using Berris WOW formula I now have Darko as a +.06 (plus .10 is average) and Hollins has risen to a – .11. Jefferson is now a +.17 (these are for 48 minutes. The thing that stands out to me is that it really could be that Darko does play far better defense.
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