We're almost there
by Stop-n-Pop on Mar 23, 2010 8:00 AM CDT
Email
Print11 games to go.
First of all, that was the first home game since the 21st of February against OKC where the Wolves have been in it down the stretch. I suppose this could be either a negative or a positive depending on how you look at things. I'm going to roll with a...ugh, has it really been over a month since the team has had a competitive home tilt? I really want to say that it was a positive. I enjoyed watching the game but now that it's over it's pretty hard to view it as a stand-alone event that, unfortunately, was still a loss.
Have I mentioned that there are only 11 games to go?
Last night's loss can be explained away in fairly easy fashion: rebounding, rebounding, and more rebounding. Against the Raps the Wolves managed only 35 total rebounds, which tied for their 5th worst output of the year. Their 8 offensive rebounds were tied for their 4th worst output of the year. On a night where both teams topped the 50% eFG mark, there were a relatively smaller amount of available grabs, but this was still a night where the team was unable to control the boards.
On the other end of the court, the Raptors grabbed 30.8% of the available misses, while shooting an eFG of 53%. The Wolves won the battle at the line, they made fewer turnovers, and they shot well from the field. Ultimately, they were done in by being -4 on the offensive glass and in the FGA column.
Of course, there was also the shoddy transition defense, the missed easy shots, and the never-ending parade of guys in black jerseys headed straight towards the rim, but beyond that...it was the rebounding.
I decided to perform an experiment during last night's game. After the game against the Lakers where I complained about the team's lack of interior defense I received a few emails from people who reminded me that the Wolves' real deficiency was on the wing and that if guys like Jonny Flynn, Ryan Gomes, and...cough...Corey Brewer could keep people in front of them, the pairing of Kevin Love and Al Jefferson and their defensive efforts might be viewed in a more favorable light.
Which is it? Are both simply very bad? Is there a chicken/egg aspect here? In order to get an unbiased set of eyes on the situation I asked Mrs. Stop-n-Pop to watch the game and pay attention to a single question: Are the Wolves big guys or little guys the ones responsible for all of the black jerseys getting to the rim? Here are a few of her more notable comments:
- "Oooh, they don't really stop anybody, do they?"
- "Do you think they get depressed by all of those empty seats?"
- "That little guy with the headband [Flynn] looks like a chicken with his head cut off. He can't stay close to his enemy [the guy he is guarding]."
- "The big goofy guy from Toronto [Turkoglu] is so slow. Is he really hard to stay in front of? By who?"
- "Why is it the job of the big guys to clean up for the little guys? That's all they'd be doing if that were the case."
- "Do I really need to watch the whole game?"
- "What happened to the big Australian you talked about?"
- Jonny Flynn showed some nice flashes of being able to attack the interior of the Raptors "defense" (quotation marks provided in the sense that the Wolves play "defense"). He was able to make some nice kick outs and he got to the line 10 times. This was as close to the summer league Flynn we have seen all year long. Unfortunately, he went 3-10 from the floor.
- I have no idea what Kurt Rambis designed for the Wolves' last play, but it did draw the following comment from Mrs. Stop-n-Pop: "Oooh, that's what they wanted?"
- Wayne Ellington was able to get to the line for 6 FTAs. He also had 3 assists and 0 turnovers while shooting 5-10 from the field.
- Hoop Data hasn't updated their box score category in a while so I don't have an exact number to put with the following claim, but it seems like the Wolves missed about 10 shots at point blank range. Kevin Love FUBAR'd two early gimmies and there were a few missed layups later on in the game.
- At least it wasn't the Wolves' transition defense that failed them down the stretch. Toronto bullied them down the stretch in the 1/2 court, scoring on several straight possessions down the wire after the Wolves pulled within 2 with about 4 minutes to go. This is where Hedo went for 5 points, 2 rebounds, and 2 assists and seemed to be able to get whatever he wanted off of the pick-and-roll.
- For the wings-are-the-big-issue crowd, the Wolves' perimeter was bested by the trio of DeMar DeRozan, Sonny Weems, and Antoine Wright.
53 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Possible
The Jazz are 9th in Defensive Rating while giving minutes on the Interior to Memo Okur, Carlos Boozer, and Paul Milsap. That group’s only real positive skill on that end would be Defensive Rebounding where they rank 6th. Granted they have AK 47 also. But They’re probably the best example of long-term why a Big Al/ K.Love pairing could work. It should be noted that the Wolves are currently a WORSE Offensive team than Defensive Team relative to league average. Although fewer turnovers would make a big difference in this department.
Interesting experiment
And what’s even more interesting is how it jives with the results of this advanced stat experiment. Now, to be fair, I don’t the author of the experiment is claiming that it’s a perfect metric or even a metric that is above further tinkering. But it does suggest that the Wolves best defenders are Love, Al, and Darko. I wasn’t quite sure what to make of that when I saw it, and was kind of thinking that maybe big men were more easily valued than little guys. At any rate, it is a good conversation to start up because if you look at the bottom of the rankings you will find Pavs, Hollins, and Flynn.
Growing my own "Darko-stache" since last Monday.
At the same time...
….Utah has been the poster team for “good enough for the playoffs, nowhere near a championship” ever since Boozer arrived. Pretty much every year they get booted from the playoffs by a team with more length and better defense up front.
They did make it to the WCF once
And if they stopped giving away talent for nothing (Brewer, Maynor, etc.), they might still be a contender. I think I’d rather have the "good enough for the playoffs, nowhere near a championship" problem, to be honest, than the “not good enough to even think about the playoffs for another 3 or 4 years” problem.
Woops, replied to the wrong comment
At any rate, I agree playoffs is better than no playoffs. But since we have to build from the ground up anyway, why not build to be the odds on favorites? A team like Utah, as good as they are, stands no chance against the Lakers (and a minimal one against the Nuggets, Mavs, and a healthy Blazers team). If we know Al/Love won’t work….and I don’t see how it’s anything but a foregone conclusion at this point….there’s not much point in my mind to sticking with it when we have the assets to make it better.
Utah has the Knicks pick coming up.
They stole Boozer from the Cavs, and they’ve got Isiah’s last folly in their back pocket now. They could do some sort of sign-and-trade on Boozer this offseason; it appeared they were on the edge of the equivalent with Chicago last summer.
What I’m saying is, there are ways solid organizations try to get over that hump.
Whether Utah can manage…. The Maynor thing was absolutely a talent-for-financial-breathing-room thing, and their situation’s fluid with Carlos, and I’ve never been entirely sold on Sloan as a championship coach, but they’re still playing the game. They hit their low, bounced once and emerged from it with Deron Williams as a very good pick. Good organizations can get things done.
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
Jonny
I only watched the first half, but it looked like Flynn was pushing the ball harder into the half-court offense, and quickly exchanging the ball with the wing and getting us into the offense. Presumably, this has been a point of emphasis for the coaches. Needless to say, things ran a little smoother when it happened.
He still struggles to feed the post. One of the only times he tried, the ball was stolen. However, he made a couple of very nice passes — unfortunately, the best one ended with a missed layup by Love.
On a different note, it would be nice to have at least one big perimeter shooter, like Andrea Bargnani — a guy with a smooth shooting stroke and high release point. It’s very easy for Bargnani to get his shot off whenever he wants. Wolves don’t have that, and haven’t really ever had that aside from Garnett who was obviously not a perimeter player. It must be easy for Calderon to rack up assists playing with Bargnani and Bosh.
What I find hard to believe...
Is that Kurt Rambis actually used a big rotation of Darko/Al/Love for the whole game…and we were competitive. Where was Ryan Hollins!
What frustrating
is that we lost the rebounding battle with that rotation. At the beginning of the season, this was supposed to be the biggest strength of the Love/Jefferson duo. Add in Darko’s solid, but not great, rebounding and you’d think we could have easily outmuscled Toronto on the boards.
by Rascal Flatts on Mar 23, 2010 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions
Length and long rebounds
I’d like to see the stats for the game because the Raptors had the advantage with the offensive rebounds off of long jump shots. It’s similar to the advantage Portland has in that category. That’s partially on the perimeter guys to box out.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Mar 23, 2010 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions
This is interesting
because it was a strength last year. Did Mike Miller’s box-outs make that much of a difference?
I think Miller made a much bigger difference than we give him credit for
His rebounding, playmaking, and efficient offense made him a vastly superior 2-guard to Corey Brewer and Wayne Ellington. What was frustrating is that he would have been even more of a difference maker if he had decided to shoot more. I’m glad we got rid of him because I prefer to invest in Brewer/Ellington over the long run, but we did take a step backwards for this season as a result.
by Rascal Flatts on Mar 23, 2010 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Pavs...
is the guy that Miller is vastly superior to. Mike is better than Ellington and maybe Brewer, but not by all that much. His “playmaking” was my single least-favorite part of the 2008-09 season.
Agreed...
…adding Pavs has to make “The Miller Effect” look larger than it actually is/should have been. He’s horrible in every way and it’s a joke he’s been getting burn in the NBA all season. I can’t recall ever having less confidence in an NBA player to do anything—anything at all—of value while on the floor. I felt similarly about McCants during his absolute worst stretches last year, when he was shooting and pouting us out of games, but then he’d break out with a occasional hot-shooting game, and you’d at least remember that the guy had talent. But Pavs has no talent and looks & plays like a stand-in from a bad basketball movie like Semi Pro.
Mrs. Stop-n-Pop
Identifies the realities of NBA defense when she says: “Why is it the job of the big guys to clean up for the little guys?”
The NBA is a rotation league. It’s a help and recover league. The players are just too good on offense for straight up man defense to work. Perimeter defense is NOT about keeping your guy in front of you consistently, nobody can do that. It’s about forcing an extra dribble; it’s about channeling your guy toward the help, it’s about effective doubling down and recovery.
I blame everyone. The bigs are not exempt. Good defensive teams simply don’t give up the number of free shots at the rim that the Wolves do, and it’s because their bigs rotate hard and protect it. They force the extra pass or the contested shot.
by Eric in Madison on Mar 23, 2010 8:54 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Rotations
You are completely right about defensive rotations. I have been saying the same thing for the last several months, the Wolves defensive rotations are horrible. Part of this is coaching and part of it is the players. Guys like Love, Jefferson, and Gomes are very slow laterally and that extra step it takes them to get to the open guy leads to wide open shots. Then you have a guy like Flynn who I think just doesn’t give 100% effort on the defensive end when it comes to rotating. The other part of it though is that the players don’t look like they know where to rotate which I blame on the coaches.
Here, here
I think you and EIM nailed it. Our overall lack of length, mobility, and hops makes it difficult for us to rotate and recover fast enough to challenge shots. Ellington, Gomes, Love, Wilkins, and Sessions all play some decent straight-up man defense, but collectively they lack the mobility and ranginess to play good “rotate and recover” defense. Having a couple of extra inches of reach or an extra gear of quickness when closing out on a shooter makes a massive difference. Brewer is about the only guy with above average athleticism and length for his position (when he plays 2-guard). Nearly everyone else on the roster is lacking in one or both categories.
by Rascal Flatts on Mar 23, 2010 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Thanks for the shoutout
I’m planning on getting more things up this week so it doesn’t look so bare – four pieces (three of which are old writeups) isn’t too much to take a look at. I’m going to upload my Quality Opponent Stat Spreadsheet which should give people more reason to check it out, as well as the previous weeks of the Consensus Rankings so people can see the change throughout the year in how these guys were viewed – probably tonight when I get home.
As far as the game is concerned, I’m glad they at least put forth some effort throughout the game. The lack of defense (all over, really), is kind of frustrating… especially when Kahn has pointed out that scoring was the Timberwolves main problem more than once in recent months. Love grabbing so few rebounds in a seemingly great match-up for his skills was kind of shocking, however having to guard their perimeter-oriented bigs was a major cause of that… though you expected him to take advantage of their softness on the offensive end which didn’t happen.
Ellington played a great game, especially early in the 4th to tighten things up. Also, this is one of the few times we have seen Flynn give up the ball on a fast break when he made an easy flip to Brewer for the entertaining slam.
I honestly expected the losing streak to end last night – alas, my split attention on NIT games (sadly, I find those just as entertaining, if not moreso) probably shows my lack of faith in the product on the court.
Check out my NBA Draft blog: http://casperkid23.blogspot.com/
Jonny's pass to Brew...
… was a huge step forward for him, and while it’s sad that it’s taken so long for Jonny to learn this because any “point guard” should take the easy assist rather than laying it in himself (both to boost his own asst totals and team morale), I have to agree with both Casperkid23 and Andy G that Flynn’s passing and running of the offense looked much better in the Raps game. Outside of a few games in January, it was the most unselfish-looking ball I’ve seen him play this season, and I hope he keeps it up. (I don’t think Flynn’s a selfish player, actually, just that he doesn’t have the knowledge/reps yet to consistently play like an unselfish point guard “should.”)
I think you're right
Jonny’s a good egg, but he doesn’t have the maturity yet to make the simple play. Everything has to be a production with him.
by Rascal Flatts on Mar 24, 2010 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions
Bosh is Good
I haven’t seen him play a lot, but what I saw of him last night on the offensive end, wow. If KG had his post game, he’d have been the G.O.A.T.
Pining for a Troy Hudson/Marko Jaric backcourt.
bosh? a wolf?
wouldn’t it be nice to see him playing the 4 in a wolf’s uniform? love can come off the bench as the 6th man.
flynn/session
turner/ellington
brewer/pick
bosh/love
darko?/pick
That'd be beautiful...
… and there was even a pr > .001 of it happening, I’d be excited.
But I’ve long thought that adding a “Bosh-like” player, i.e., a long, rangy forward who can play in both the high and low posts, would make this team much better and more enjoyable to watch. (Darko’s a great passer out of the high and low posts, but he’s just not much of a scoring threat so he doesn’t fit into my vision.) I think Anthony Randolph could still develop into that kind of player and I’d be pleased if Kahn tried to steal him before the Warriors get sold and their implosion ends and they realize they’ve got an all-star talent in Randolph. He could be Bosh-like if he develops. And he’s still only 20 or 21.
I also like Greg Monroe, despite the lack of athleticism. I think he’ll be a very able passer/scorer in the high and low posts for a decade or so.
Went to the game
And the big issue was lack of transition execution on either end. They didn’t get back; the Raps did. The Raps are more athletic at every spot except PG. The Wolves, though, didn’t play good transition D when the got back or execute that well when they did (I’m looking at you, Jonny, for throwing an alleyoop to Brewer when another pass would’ve done the trick and costing them 2 points). Everybody looked slow; the bigs were having a tough time running the floor in the first quarter.
That final play: ugh. They’re better off keeping it simple and running a PnR because it’s the toughest play in basketball to stop. All I’ll say is if the team had kept forcing turnovers after that run that got them to within 2, they might’ve been able to win without a final play. They can’t play on their heels defensively.
Finally, I’m ready for the Ryan Gomes era to end. He’s not a “glue” guy, and he doesn’t bring much to the team when he’s not shooting well. The team needs a hybrid 3/4, but the guy’s got to be athletic and be able to get in on the fast break action. No “glue” guy would let Hedo Turkoglu walk past him for an easy two in a tight game.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Mar 23, 2010 10:01 AM CDT reply actions
Damion James, Stanley Roberts, Al-Farouq Aminu
Totally agree we should look to draft a Ryan Gomes replacement with one of our later picks (unless we pick #5, at which point Aminu has to be considered). Roberts and James most definitely could be had with either the Charlotte or even potentially the Utah pick. I guess part of it depends on what we do with our first pick, but there are some solid combo forwards out there that can help us.
by Rascal Flatts on Mar 23, 2010 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Not sure he has the bulk
But he does seem pretty rangy. I suppose in some small-ball cases he could play the 4.
by Rascal Flatts on Mar 23, 2010 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Indeed
The ‘Cuse zone doesn’t give us much opportunity to figure out if he can really defend. I hate that, but I guess Boeheim didn’t design his defense to please scouts and fans prospecting for future pros!
by Rascal Flatts on Mar 23, 2010 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions
This is (part of) why I'm not a Cuse fan.
Sure, I enjoy watching them. They are a perennially good team.
But at the college level, I still think preparing players for future success, in basketball and in life, is of utmost importance.
Boeheim, for all his hall of fame talent (which I don’t doubt), has always used the zone, and it doesn’t prepare his guys at all defensively. It’s just a college gimmick.
Dark Love is a-Brewin...
What happens at halftime?
At what point is Kurt Rambis going to get asked about his halftime adjustments/planning? How many times have the Wolves come out of the break flat and disinterested? Is this because of coaching? Are the others teams making changes the Wolves can’t counter? Why aren’t the Wolves making changes to their advantage? Are Rambis’s halftime speeches putting the players to sleep? Are they taking naps?
What is causing these 3rd quarter meltdowns?
Perhaps part of our tanking strategy (tanknique? tanktastic tactics?)
is to slip sedatives into the Gatorade.
Dark Love is a-Brewin...
Point Guard Play
I only got a chance to watch bits and pieces of the game last night but looking through the box score I see the (/-) of the PG’s were polar opposites again. Comments are saying that Flynn looked better last night than he has in the past, but he still finished the game with at teamworst (-18), while Sessions was a team best (12). I don’t want to get into a debate about the use of (+/-) but it is interesting that Flynn is still getting double the minutes of Sessions.
The announcers even mentioned how much better the ball movement is with Sessions in the game last night. I was shocked to hear JimPete say something that actually made sense. For those that watched the whole game any insight? Thanks
I really like making teamworst one word
but we should change it to “teamwurst.”
As in: Flynn was teamwurst on a bun;
As in: The Wolves defensive rotations are grilled teamwurst.
As in: Yum! Teamwurst turnovers.
by Eric in Madison on Mar 23, 2010 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Will they give out free Teamwursts at Hoopus Night?
On the +/- thing, it looked to me like it was a pretty glaring 1-game fluke. They Sessions had 3 turnovers in his very limited mintues and didn’t bring much to the table.
Flynn was much more what we were hooping for - got to the line, rant he pick-n-roll with Love very effectively which helped make it a 1-possesion game late in the 4th, some good passes, some bad ones, erratic shooting and shoddy D. While I agree the +/ looks terrible, I thought he was the better guard. But I didn’t see the whole game either so I can’t really speak conclusively. What I did see of Sessions wasn’t that good, and Flynn was slightly better.
Teamwurst and...
what about roastations?
I was gonna add something like this to the post above, headlined “rotations”, but as long as Eric in Madison delivered the outstanding idea of “teamwurst”, we can add “roastations” to the same lexicon.
Neither were good
Nevermind the +/-, neither were that good last night. I will say that Flynn had a stint in the second half where he largely responsible for generating 7 consecutive points….without taking one shot. First, he made a nice drive and interior feed to Jefferson for an easy bucket – something we have rarely seen this year. On the next trip down, he made a nice drive again and kicked the ball out to a wide open Corey Brewer for a 3-pointer. On the ensuing Toronto posession, he doubled Bosh and stripped the ball, then made the simple pass to Brewer for a fast break dunk. That sort of sequence gives you hope. He also made one or two nice drives to the bucket and earlier in the game made a nice feed to Love and Love botched a wide open layup.
Unfortunately, he also made his fair share of boneheaded plays. On one fast break, he had a streaking Corey Brewer open for a wide open layup. Instead of simply passing him the ball (like he did after that Chris Bosh strip), he threw an errant ally-oop up that Corey couldn’t handle. There was absolutely no reason to do this since there was no defender to go over the top of. A simple bounce or chest pass would have sufficed. On a different drive into the lane he was out of control and tried to dump it off to an unsuspecting Al Jefferson. Result: Turnover. In addition, late in the game, he had his fair share of ball-dominant indecisiveness. I don’t know how often a big comes up to pick his man and Jonny doesn’t take the pick. Instead he tries to get cute and ends up in no-man’s land just dribbling valuable time off the clock with no place to go. If Flynn learns how to simplify things and settle down, he can get a lot better.
by Rascal Flatts on Mar 23, 2010 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Sessions has been beyond uninspiring lately
I’m starting to wonder if my “he’s been drinking” jokes are more truth than humor…
Sessions has been a pretty disappointed
player.
He reads Rambis not guaranteeing starting/playing time, yet he has not been able to break through even with his superior play. He signed with the promise of being able to compete for the #1 job. That has not been the case.
Rumor has it that several teams inquired about his availability at the trade deadline (including 1 that runs the triangle offense) but we chose not to respond.
Losing brings a lot of this stuff out – especially with younger guys.
Sessions looks like a different player from the one I saw in Milwaukee...
… I don’t like to read too much into the “Skiles Effect” on point guard numbers, but Ramon definitely thrived in the Bucks’ free-flowing offense and has played like a dog on a leash here, jerking around, occasionally breaking free to run and have some fun, but usually looking stifled. Not a perfect metaphor, but I think Ramon could be a very effective starter on the right team. Unfortunately, even though he’s better than Flynn right now, I don’t think that team will be Minnesota unless Rambis abandons the triangle next season.
for the record
I don’t think any of our big “expect” to get the ball in position. Largely because Flynn hasn’t done it all year, but I am not sure that that dump off to al was a bad TO. Players that play with CP3 and apparently Rubio just get used to expecting the ball all the time. I believe they call that a heads up play. Apparently Al’s wasn’t so heads up. Not that I could blame him for that.
A Darko Fan since 2010!
by TheEvilProfessor on Mar 23, 2010 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Some silver lining
The fact that Jonny is setting up teammates and the offense a little better shows he can learn and will get better in that area. It was said above, but the next area to improve might be the entry to the post, especially with a post player like Al.
yep
and closely followed by ending the matador defense strategy. :)
A Darko Fan since 2010!
by TheEvilProfessor on Mar 23, 2010 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Similarly...
I noticed Darko maintaining several (three specifically come to mind) possessions by tipping a 50-50 rebound to an open teammate. KLove used to do this quite often, but seemingly less in recent contests.
If sticking strictly to the defensive side of the ball
Who in his prime would help this defense more….Gary Payton or KG? I say Payton, hence I think the problem starts on the perimeter.
If KLove missed fewer layups and put backs, he would easily average a point or two more per game. This is an area he needs to improve.
Purely speculation on my part, but it seems like Flynn is being allowed to “GO” more on offense rather than stick to the Triangle. I wonder if they are trying to boost his late season appearance to help in a trade this summer.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Next Game
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Days of NBA Lives: Wherein Roy Hibbert tap-dances to Maine
- Grizzlies Valentine’s Day cards are the key to love
- Kevin Love would like the NBA to take the MLB’s approach on All-Star games
- Kobe Bryant fires a few hilarious salvos at Jeremy Lin
- Brandon Jennings states the obvious regarding his 2014 free agency, everyone goes nuts
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
