Wolves Updates 3/27
by SG on Mar 27, 2010 1:39 AM CDT
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From Tim Povtak/Fanhouse:
Rambis is the one who pushed the front-office to take Milicic from New York, even though the Knicks had soured on him. Rambis made it clear he wants him back next season. And a Timberwolves source confirmed their plans to try and re-sign him this summer.
Also from Povtak:
"This is a good thing for me here right now. I think me and Al (Jefferson) can work well together next season,'' he told FanHouse Friday. "I've always just wanted the chance to play, and play the right way. It looks like I can get that here. They trust me. If they are going to play me this much, and have any kind of goals to be a winning team, then I would like to come back.''
From John Hollinger/ESPN:
Minnesota has nearly twice as many wins as the Nets (14), but by almost any objective measure, the Timberwolves have been just as bad. The Nets are 30th in offensive efficiency; the Wolves are 29th. The Nets are 27th in defensive efficiency; the Wolves are 28th. The Nets are outscored by 10 points per game, the Wolves by 9.5.
Heading into Friday's contest against Orlando, Minnesota has lost 14 straight games and 20 of its past 21, and hasn't held an opponent under the century mark in more than a month. Thanks to that streak, the Wolves, not the Nets, occupy the bottom slot in the Power Rankings with a horrific 90.7 rating -- meaning even an average team would be nearly a double-digit favorite against them on a neutral court.
Sure, Indiana is a bad team, but even on bad teams, the leader in minutes is usually a player of some accomplishment. The leaders on New Jersey (Brook Lopez) and Minnesota (Al Jefferson), for instance, have stellar PERs despite the woeful state of their teams.
From Jerry Zgoda/Star Tribune:
• Wolves rookie Jonny Flynn when asked about his top-seeded Syracuse team losing to Butler on Thursday in the NCAA tournament: "I went to a quiet place and just was by myself for a while."
• Guard Sasha Pavlovic played his first extended minutes -- more than 17 -- since March 14 because of a strained calf and DNP-CDs (Did Not Play-Coach's Decision). Veteran Brian Cardinal was inactive for a second consecutive game.
• Corey Brewer has not made a three-point shot in three of his past four games, since his franchise-record streak of consecutive games with a three ended at 33.
From Kevin Brockway/Gatorsports.com:
Brewer said even he was surprised at how well he had recovered from surgery to repair a torn ACL that sidelined him last season.
"Once the season started, I didn’t even think about it, I put it out of my mind," Brewer said. "But I’m jumping better than I thought I’d be jumping."
From Jonny Flynn's twitter account:
That's good Gilbert didn't get any jail time. It pays off to be a good person. I think that helped him out a lot in this situation.
From an NBA chat with Travis Heath at Hoopsworld:
Jason in Steel City:
With all the questions about Rubio, Flynn and the possibility of adding Wall, why is it that no one talks about the most NBA ready and tested pg on that roster in Sessions (who has played really well)? Any chance the Clips could snag him?
Travis Heath:
Sessions has been steady but not great this season. His biggest weakness is his inability to shoot the ball from deep. That said, I actually think he's been underutilized some in Minnesota mostly because they want to try and develop Jonny Flynn, which is understandable given where Flynn was drafted. Sessions has a very reasonable contract that a number of teams would likely be interested in acquiring this summer. I think the Wolves view him more as an asset than a long-term solution at the point. As such, I believe he could be had via trade for the right piece or pieces.
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Come on!
Kevin Love is totally getting traded. Pack your bags, Kevin. Welcome to the Al and Darko era.
by littleboxes on Mar 27, 2010 9:08 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
it wouldn't suprise me at all if they
were both traded for wing talent and Pek and Darko were our frontcourt starters plus whoever we could nab with the charlotte and utah picks. (hoping for wall/tuner with ours).
A Darko Fan since 2010!
by TheEvilProfessor on Mar 27, 2010 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Pekovic
I really don’t think he’s a big part of the plan. Everything Kahn has said on the guy seems luke warm.
Mark it down, it’s Al and Darko with Hollins in reserve. Love gets dealt for???
by Blond Ricky on Mar 27, 2010 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm leaning heavily toward hoping that Love gets dealt
for a 3-point bombing SF who also plays killer D. Basically a more skilled and bigger version of Corey Brewer. Then Brewer can play 25 MPG off the bench. Team is instantly 10 games better with this one move. Of course that is still only about 25 wins.
I bet
the Blazers would be interested, as would OKC, or GSW, or Utah, or Houston, or Sacramento, or the Spurs. Hell, even the Pistons or Nyets/Knicks would be happy to have him. I think there’s lots of team who’d be happy to take him, and a number of the stats teams are also some of the better teams to help facilitate a three way deal. I’m not saying that Beasley should be the guy, but could you imagine Miami being able to keep Dwade, add Bosh, and trade for Love? Pretty awesome for them, right?
Point – you gotta give value to get value, and Love’s a pretty useful player for a lot of teams. The trick is identifying who you’d want in return.
Growing my own "Darko-stache" since last Monday.
I am starting to really loathe Rambis
System over talent.
Adherence to preconceived ideas -No Sessions and Flynn experiment despite nothing to lose, Pavs is a shooter, etc.
Seemingly preferential treatment of players.
No apparent regard for statistics of any kind.
But, people around the league think he’s good. Great.
by Blond Ricky on Mar 27, 2010 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Love is a better economic value than Al
both on and off the court. So the only way Love gets traded instead of Al is if Al’s value is so low that the Wolves just decide to keep him instead of giving him away for nothing, and trade Love for hopefully another young 4-5 mill a year guy with more complementary skills (Ty Thomasish? If they don’t draft Favors?)
He may be better economically
However, if they both have to matchup against strength based players on D due to lateral quickness and ahtleticism issues, Al is taller, stronger, and longer than KLove to do so. Al will be able to defend his position better. If Love can never defend his position because of his genetics, I don’t see how he’s a better value even if he’s paid less.
So, then . . .
. . . if you’re right (and I have nothing to prove you’re not), how do you get any value for Love, and from whom do you get that value?
Make a list of all the Synergy Sports Clients, call them up and tell them we got this cheap 3rd year player who rebounds, passes, and has an emerging outside shot and hope they value stats more than the eye test when making a potential deal.
My prediction is Love gets dealt
in a package for a legit starting SF. The guy will need to be good on D to make up for Jefferson, and hopefully he shoots like Wally World.
My proposal
Kevin Love + Ramon Sessions + Ryan Hollins for Mike Conley and Haseem Thabeet
I think there is good value for both teams in this trade.
no thanks.
I’d rather have Darko than Thabeet and we don’t need Conley Jr. If we’re trading with Memphis, I want Gay or Mayo.
Let’s figure out a Love/Mayo trade to bring this whole thing full circle.
by TWolvesFanInLA on Mar 27, 2010 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Conley would fit in as a PG in the triangle better than Sessions. Shoots over 40% from 3. His issues in shot creating and passing would be masked in the triangle. Conley is a better fit than Sessions for about the same money. Thabeet is as about a one dimensional player as Kevin Love as Thabeet can play D without O. I think I like Thabeet’s chances of playing the high post improving better than Love’s ability as a defender, but reasonably minds could disagree.
by that logic
i think mayo would be a better triangle point guard. as far as masking things goes… and he guards 1s and 2s equally crappy, instead of only being able to guard a 1 ineffectively.
I can see it now
Resign Darko for way too much money.
Draft Wes Johnson #3.
Trade Love.
Resign Pavlovic and Wilkins.
Awesome!
Darko isn’t that good people. He’s average and looks the part of a center and for a team that’s never had anything at the position we’re willing to accept that? Rambis is looking like a bad decision.
What could Love have done that’s so bad that we’re willing to roll with a guy who cares so much about basketball that he let himself get totally out of shape during the season? There’s a guy who wants to get better? Are we seriously o.k. with that kind of attitude? This whole season has been very troubling. We’re developing young talent, but don’t give guys like Love, Sessions, and Ellington extended time. We bring in Darko (which was fine), but then let it cut further into Love’s development.
Name more than 3 players who got significantly better after age 25? Now look at Darko’s best PER and win/wage. It ain’t happening people. Signing him for anything more than a Sessions like contract will hurt us. Even at a decent price it’s going to hurt us if it leads to Love’s exit. Get ready for the Al/Darko frontcourt of the future people.
Why not keep an average center around
sounds like a piece of the puzzle to me. If Darko is here for 10 years and basically is a 30MPG average center, I’ll gladly take it, especially when the cost was Brian Cardinal.
I have no problem keeping Darko around...
provided it’s for the right price. He says it’s not about the money, but I’ll believe that when I see it. He’s getting paid what, nearly $8 million this year, will he accept the $4 million or so he’s worth? Doubtful. You overpay for bigs, I get that. I’m fine with that as long as we’re getting a guy who’s better than average.
Basically, I don’t see him accepting what I think he’s worth. Sounds like he’ll be back though so assuming we overpay, we’ll get the chance to learn yet again that overpaying for a role player (Hudson, Jaric, James, etc) just isn’t smart.
I would point out
What could Love have done that’s so bad that we’re willing to roll with a guy who cares so much about basketball that he let himself get totally out of shape during the season?
Love is noticeably fatter right now than when he had lost all that baby fat. If you’re going to rip Darko for being out of shape when not playing at all, then you gotta rip Love for being out of shape while playing.
Lastly, the dearth of legit centers in the 20 some years of this franchise is all the reason to resign him. I don’t care if we slightly overpay – a legit 7 foot center is next to a bona fide number 1 option as the hardest things to find in basketball.
Growing my own "Darko-stache" since last Monday.
exactly
a true defensive center isn’t that easy to come by…otherwise we would have had one years ago. anyone notice how Al’s defensive stats (blocks and steals) have seemed to increase now that he is playing with a big around him (at least some of the time) that can defend – meaning challenge a shot. maybe it’s coincidence…
Obviously Love will be gone after this, but who does he get traded for or what kind of package can he be included in? I can’t see us giving Hollins a ton of minutes next year and even with Darko we’re still going to need an athletic 4 or 5. Hypothetically if we get Turner, do we then trade Love and possibly one of our other First Rounders for a guy like JaVale McGee or even Josh Smith, even though I know we’d have to give up a ton. How about if we miss out on Turner, we obviously don’t want another slow footed front court player like Cousins, do we take Favors or Davis and then trade Love for somebody like Deng or Igoudala, or even to move up from the Charlotte pick and take Wes Johnson? Give me some scenarios?
by AnotherDraftPickBitesTheDust on Mar 27, 2010 10:43 AM CDT reply actions
Flynn/Sessions
Turner/Ellington
Brewer/Johnson
Jefferson/Hollins
Darko/McGee
Release Gomes, Trade Love and Charlotte’s pick to Washington for McGee and their Top Ten pick. Take Wes Johnson with that pick. Plenty of cap room to sign another player, maybe somebody like Ty Thomas or take a guy like Varnado with the Utah’s pick.
by AnotherDraftPickBitesTheDust on Mar 27, 2010 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
Trading Love for McGee
Sending out Love for a package highlighted by J. McGee would be the biggest about face I could think of in terms of BBIQ. From what I understand of McGee, he’s completely frustrating in that he’s got good skills, but no BB brains. Combine that with Hollins and Al and we’ll have one of the lowest BBIQ post groups ever, even with Darko’s above average feel for the game.
Highlighted by getting a starting SF in Johnson and an elite, athletic shot blocker that’s also only 21 years old. Charlotte’s pick is going, I don’t see taking a swing at somebody like Vesely, who will probably stay in Europe, or a guy like James Anderson, who’s weakness looks to be defense as well.
by AnotherDraftPickBitesTheDust on Mar 27, 2010 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Few Points
1. All this railing about needing a 5 is silly. We seem to think we’re going to improve if we play Darko or Cole Aldrich at the expense of Al or Kevlar. We’re not a great defensive team- True. We’re actually a worse offensive team than Defensive team- yet throwing away Al for Cole Aldrich apparently makes sense. If you’re going to replace Al with a better Defensive center- their positive contribution toward the team winning every night much be an improvement over Al. This type of player isn’t easily acquired look at the money thrown at Dasanga Diop.
2. This team’s problems lie at the 1-2-3. Look at Per Differentials. Love and Al both have Positive Differentials. They’re the only 2 players on the team that qualify. Yet people think this team’s biggest need is at center?
3. Darko is such a positive value to the Team they’re like 1-17 since they got him. Have fun in Serbia! He’s not worth much. He’s not a good rebounder, he’s not in shape, and he’s been run off several teams.
The "worse offense than defense"...
…point cannot be driven home enough. This is the worst offense in team history by .5 points/100 possessions (the last time I checked). It’s horrific. They are a terrible shooting team with the biggest eFG differential in team history. It’s epic.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Perhaps
but I think improving defense makes this team better in the short and long run more sustainably and effectively than improving the offense.
To Jose Cordoba’s point about Darko being so good we’re 1-17 with him. Well, Love and Jefferson are so good that we’re at 14 wins with them. Awesome. To me that says that no one on this team should be untouchable. No one.
In terms of improving the offense I think rechanneling the offense through a Wall/Turner/Granger (we can dream sometimes, right?) type player will help our offense significantly more than trying to figure out how to make Al an efficient scorer in the triangle. As long as we carry around this notion that we have to run our offense through Al or Love in this system we’re going to have issues, in my opinion. Those guys should be viewed as complimentary offensive players to a perimeter star. If they can’t accept that, then ship them out.
I really hope Kahn and Rambis are willing to blow this team to hell in order to reshift priorities and player roles on offense and defense. Do what you have to in order to get a top 2 pick. Trade anyone but Rubio, and starting banking/planning on paying him whatever you have to – lockout or not – in order to get him to come over. I’d give Indiana just about anything in order get Granger from them. The more I think about it the more I come to the conclusion that Al and Love haven’t played themselves into being an indispensable part of the solution. They certainly could be, but it depends on other things – the draft, trades, and whether they can accept a lesser role.
Growing my own "Darko-stache" since last Monday.
Just to be clear
In Rumblebee’s Post- I made the same point. No one is untouchable.
I’m just making the point that Darko’s not really worth much of a long-term investment.
by Jose Cordoba on Mar 27, 2010 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Darko
The Darko bandwagon is understandable given our history, but with the stats based analysis on this site, I still find it perplexing. The guy just isn’t that good.
Nobody should think the Wolves' biggest need is at center.
Wings. Wings. Wings. It’s not even close. We’ve know it since the trade for the #5. The end.
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
Makes Sense
on the Fantasy Island that is the Wolves Management.
Love vs Charlie Villaneuva
1. Age- Advantage- Love
2. True Shooting Percentage- Advantage- Love
3. Contract- Advantage- Love
4. Rebounding- Huge, Huge Advantage- Love
5. Pure Point Rating- Advantage- Love
6. Defense- Considering the Pistons are 5.7 Points Worse with Charlie V. on the Court- he’s probably not any great shakes there. Considering the Wolves are 6.3 Points better with Love on the Court. Charlie V. also gives up a higher defensive PER to 4’s than K.Love.
I’ve got no comments beyond this about this silly trade. I’m guessing this is probably a bit.
Don't take the bait
This guy is playing everyone on CH right now. He just signed up today, and funny but College Wolf has been prowling around in his typical way as well, giving SNP crap about KLove. Something tells me there is a TWB connection here today.
If you're going to simultaneously bash Love
and write like the dumbest guy on the planet, wouldn’t you be doing it to take a piss on the anti-Love faction of the board, which includes College Wolf?
Evan Turner
Derrick Favors
Luol Deng
Andre Igoudala
Wes Johnson
JaVale McGee
Ed Davis
Jason Thompson
Anthony Randolph
Taj Gibson
Al-Farouq Aminu
We’ll get two players out of this list, by drafting one, and trading Love, with possibly Sessons and our later first round picks for one.
by AnotherDraftPickBitesTheDust on Mar 27, 2010 3:28 PM CDT reply actions
Darko/Al vs Darko/Love
Can anyone speak, objectively, to these tandems? I haven’t been able to watch the last few games, but am wondering which combo is better?
While I’ve always appreciated Al’s low post scoring, I’m still leaning towards trading him before Love.
I am not a scout, and I don't play one on TV
but here are a few things I’ve noticed…
Both duos have looked good at times and bad at times.
In both cases you have good size on the floor and good rebounding at PF. In both cases I cannot think of many PFs we can defend.
Darko, being a lefty, likes to post up on the right block. Al being a rightly, prefers the left. This sounds dumb but is actually kind of nice. Both have some good moves down low, and if you rotate the ball to the weak side the other guy is ready and waiting in his comfort zone. Darko is also showing the ability to play in the high post and shoot from the outside. So it is a little of the inside-out pairing we thought we were getting with Love/Jefferson.
Darko and Love can make nice passes back and forth to each other. Watching them run the triangle with some other decent IQ guys like Ellington is fun. I have no way of knowing this, but I think Love is on a bit of a slow-down strike with his recent lazy-looking play. I suspect if the team traded Al and said “Kevin – you are our guy – we had to sit you to show the league Al was healthy” we’d see a much more involved Love. That version of Love plus Darko would look pretty interesting on O.
None of the three have been blocking many shots. Darko has the best defender of the three. He aggressively defends the P&R and tries to body up to guys in the paint. But he hasn’t been an intimidator or anything.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
Love vs Darko
Per 36 mins this year with the Timberwolves:
Love: 18.0 ppg, 13.4 rpg, 2.8 apg, 0.5 bpg.
Darko: 10.4 ppg, 8.3 ppg, 2.4 apg, 1.7 bpg.
Albeit a small sample given Darko only played 16 games this year with the Wolves.
But seriously we are gonna trade Love away for a few more blocks with Darko? Didn’t you all complain there was too much love for Love in this blog, now we want to trade him?? I understand it’s not all about stats, but give me a break guys, there’s a reason why Darko is a bust.
BTW
I’m all for keeping Darko, however trading Love would be a mistake, like I said a guy averaging double double, and only 21 years old is hard to come by.
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