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The Most Likely Al Jefferson Destination

I love thinking about trade possiblities, but I hate coming up with obviously lopsided deals for the Timberwolves. I think this deal I've proposed favors both teams, while also being consistent with past rumors...

 

Detroit gets...

Al Jefferson

Utah Pick (currently #25)

 

Minnesota gets...

Tayshaun Prince

Detroit Pick (Currently #7)

 

After taking into account rookie salaries, this deal matches up on the trade machine.

Detroit has been looking for a young big, and they get the best one available in Jefferson. Minnesota gets the opportunity to draft Al's replacement at #7(Favors, Davis, Aldrich, Whiteside) while also getting a starting SF and veteran presence with championship experience.

Poll
Who would you rather have on the Timberwolves?
Al Jefferson and the Utah Pick (#25)
71 votes
Tayshaun Prince and the Detroit Pick (#7)
182 votes

253 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 46 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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I would do this in a second

but I’m not sure Detroit would. Does Al really fit what they want? They are already paying Charlie Villanueva.

I think they are more likely to do it if the Wolves take Hamilton off their hands as opposed to Prince, but then I wouldn’t do it.

by Eric in Madison on Mar 3, 2010 10:06 AM CST reply actions  

Well...

Joe Dumars has assembled a team that needs to win now, so I think they’re definitely a possibility to trade their pick if they don’t move up from #7. We also know that he was trying hard to get a big at the deadline (Detroit was linked to both Utah and Phoenix), but they weren’t able to get anything done because no one would come anywhere close to Hamilton’s contract…and Prince isn’t good enough to get a strong talent in return.

So what other bigs are available to them? All the bigs at the 7 spot aren’t going to provide immediate help, and Dumars needs to win now. I think he jumps at the opportunity to trade for Al if it’s available.

by Blakeley on Mar 3, 2010 10:13 AM CST up reply actions  

They might need to win now

but they aren’t going to. And does Al move them toward winning in this scenario?

It’s tough to sell giving up the 7th pick just to exchange from Prince to Jefferson. Something like this might entice them more:

Jefferson, Brewer, Charlotte Pick (and maybe Utah pick) for

Prince, Chris Wilcox, and the 7th pick

by Eric in Madison on Mar 3, 2010 10:20 AM CST up reply actions  

Yuck

I’d rather take on Hamilton’s contract from your first response. If the Charlotte pick comes this year, it’ll probably only be moving us up 6 spots. AND we lose Brewer?

Are you that big of a fan of Tayshaun Prince or do you just hate Big Al that much? If we traded in the offseason, Prince is an expiring and Hamilton has 3 years left (same as Al). Unless they expect Prince to completely recover from all of his injuries and get back to his top 2005ish form, Jefferson is a better value (There will be lots of teams looking to use their cap space after they miss out on an FA and Jefferson is still a very productive player). Unless of course they don’t expect Jefferson to recover at all either and think they can get really good value with the 7th pick. I’d still be willing to take on Rip’s contract for a couple years. Good freethrow shooter (and drawer), good defender, great passer for a 2guard, low turnovers, and good pedigree. In the past he has also been a tremendous shooter, but this year he has suffered from injury and it’s clearly affecting his game. The only reason I see them refusing to take the Prince and pick swap deal (and to be fair, they might demand the Charlotte pick swap, which wouldn’t be unfair) is because of the aforementioned injury concerns regarding both players, they think they can pick up a perfect piece with their pick, or because they think Prince will be able to net them something really good from a contender (… probably not.).

by Mplax on Mar 3, 2010 1:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Upon rerererereading

that first sentence sounded rather snarky. Didn’t intend for that. Sorry in advance.

by Mplax on Mar 3, 2010 1:19 PM CST up reply actions  

No problem

I just don’t see the trade as originally proposed from Detroit’s side. I’m not entirely sure Al works for them at all—it creates a pretty disastrous defensive front court for them with Charlie V.

I don’t know. I don’t have a good handle on Al’s value around the league. This has not been a good year for him. Yes, the injury recovery, I get that. But there is going to be concern that he never recovers fully unless he can show it.

I’d be very leery about taking on Hamilton’s contract. If I could do Prince and 7 for Jefferson and the Charlotte pick I think I’d do that. I don’t think it works with just the Utah pick.

by Eric in Madison on Mar 3, 2010 1:43 PM CST up reply actions  

You're right about it not working as is

but I think it’s sooo close that we wouldn’t need to include the Charlotte pick or take on guys like Wilcox/Maxiell and giving up Brewer. Maybe include Sessions for a second rounder or throw in one of our second rounders.

FWIW, I think Jefferson is going to have a tremendous finish to the year. Like, comparable to his pre-injury numbers. And it’s gonna make me really hate to do this deal when the time comes (even though I don’t think it’ll ever really last), but I really think he is motivated to turn it around and all the rest he is getting will help him heal up for that burst.

But you’re right about the defensive issue. Especially without Big Ben coming back (unlikely). I still think they are getting good value though. And right now I think they are in “get value” mode because they are panicking and trying to stay competitive. They still have a lot of talent, they just need a good FA signing like Camby or swapping something for Tyson Chandler.

by Mplax on Mar 3, 2010 1:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Detroit

Isn’t even starting Charlie V this year, and their team sucks. I think they jump at an opportunity to pick up Al, and worry about getting a Defensive 5 later.

by Blakeley on Mar 3, 2010 2:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Detroit has been rumored to have interest in Stoudemire or Boozer

Not sure why Al wouldn’t work for them if they’re really looking for a low block guy.

by pagingstanleyroberts on Mar 3, 2010 10:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Detroit might do it

I mean, the precedent for somewhat questionable moves is there (Gordon and Villanueva mega-bucks signings?).

And looking at their roster, Al might be a pretty good addition for them. Villanueva ain’t no Love, but he can play a bit more of a perimeter game and has the athleticism/length to compliment Al nicely. Plus a beast down low should surely open things up for Detroit’s youngsters. Detroit’s youngsters are also, ultimately, what this trade would be about – if they pick around 7-9 there’s really no one there that fits what they’re doing (or could be doing) over the next 2-3 years, but opening up time for Jerekbo by removing Prince might really appeal to them (over both the short and the long term). There are some good, long SG/SF prospects at the Utah pick range too, and they would fit better on the team than a young big (who’d need more time to develop).

A big rotation of Al, Villanueva, and Wallace isn’t too shabby – that’s some solid and consistent rebounding and scoring with some defensive ability thrown in. A big rotation of Villanueva, Wallace and Cole/Ed Davis/Whiteside is pretty shaky, (or even Patterson) – they could be good, but they’ll probably be maddeningly inconsistent over the next couple of years. You know Al will give you 20-10 every night when healthy and fits in nicely with the bigs you already have, plus moving Prince opens up PT for Jerekbo while allowing you to add a value player at that same position later in the draft. I can see Detroit doing this, and I can see them also not doing it.

For us I think it’s a pretty lateral move. Certainly gives us a chance to add a developable big, or if we land outside the 2-3 enough ammo to potentially trade up for Turner. If we stay there it might allow us to take a flier on a high upside pick – perhaps Whiteside, or even Patterson or Vesely or of course Wes Johnson. This looks like it’d be a pretty interesting draft to have 3 of the top twelve picks, especially if we can land one of the top 3. There are legit star players at the top (Wall, Turner, and I’d argue Favors) that would fit well on our team if Al was moved, and then there are intriguing prospects with length and athleticism and high upsides at the lower picks (7-12 range) who are at positions we need (guys like Aldrich, Whiteside, Patterson, Vesely, Motiejunas, Stanley Robinson, Wes Johnson, Greg Monroe, or Ed Davis). In the best case scenario, how would feel about this team next year/future years?

Rubio/Sessions/Flynn
Brewer/Ellington/Wilkins
Turner/Aminu or Wes Johnson
Love/Aminu or Vesely (or Davis/Patterson or somebody if they slide)
Darko/Pekovic/Whiteside

Length? Check. (Rubio at 1, Brewer at 2, Turner at 3, and Darko/Whiteside at 5)
Athleticism? Check (Brewer at 2, Turner at 3, Aminu at 3/4, Darko/Whiteside at 5).
Rebounding? Check (Love, Turner, Darko/Pek – may not be quite as good as Al, but collectively our rebounding should improve via the other players)
Shot blocking? Check (Darko, Whiteside, Aminu, Turner)
Passing? Check (Turner, Rubio, Love, Darko)
Shooting? Probably the weakest area, but Pek can pound it low, Love’s shown good range, Wellington/Flynn/Brewer are all showing solid skills, Turner maybe, Aminu maybe, Rubio maybe.
Scoring? Most likely check. Turner will be a force. Love will get points, as will Pek and Flynn off the bench. The other guys have pretty high upside too – Brewer might become a 15 ppg guy and Wellington might become a 10-12 ppg guy. We may not have a 20 ppg scorer, but we’d have a guy who could consistently score (Turner best case), and about 5-6 other guys who could give you consistent complimentary scoring of 8 ppg or more (in no particular order – Love, Brewer, Flynn, Darko, Ellington, and Pekovic).

More than anything, that’d be a YOUNG and fun team to watch.

Growing my own "Darko-stache" since last Monday.

by biggity2bit on Mar 3, 2010 11:29 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't know if we'd be able to get Whitside and Aminu

I could see Whiteside going earlier than 12-15 (unless you thought Aminu would slide). But a Whiteside at 7, Henry at 12-15 scenario would not be out of the question.

What has been consistent is that Kahn has said he wants a team that will run. This seems like a good step in that direction.

You also forgot Prince in your depth chart. Shooting looks a little better at that point right?

by Blakeley on Mar 3, 2010 12:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Totally forgot Prince

That’d make things look a bit more solid.

My thought with Aminu is that he might be the guy at the Detroit pick, although he’s kind of Corey Brewer (good version) v.2.0. Whiteside will probably get taken way too early in this draft, but he was the thought with the Bobcats’ pick.

If this were the scenario that plays out (3 high picks, one of which is #1 or 2 overall), I can see Kahn and Rambis going with the sure thing at the top (Wall/Turner, although I think they should go Turner), and then pick up two high upside guys on the perimeter and inside.

At Detroit’s pick that would mean guys who might fall (Aldrich, Cousins, or Aminu), or if they think Wes Johnson is too good a fit then they’d go with him.

At Charlotte’s pick that would mean guys like Johnson, Patterson, Ed Davis, Whiteside (although he’ll most likely be gone), the random big who falls (Cole?), the random big who overachieves in workouts (Udoh/Monroe/Alabi? just as an example), or the Euro’s Vesely or Monty.

I think they’d be targeting size/length and athleticism with each pick no matter what because this team needs as much talent as possible. Given our system, though, I can see them focusing on high upside players with a good innate feel for the game (or at least for not Jonny Stopping offensive flow) – so guys like the Euro’s or Wes Johnson; or whichever big they think is most likely to develop into a plus defender, plus shot blocker, and plus rebounder with a passing touch.

Growing my own "Darko-stache" since last Monday.

by biggity2bit on Mar 3, 2010 1:00 PM CST up reply actions  

You forgot my favorite quality!

Defense? Check. (Turner/Brewer at 2, Prince at 3, Aminu at 4, Darko/Whiteside???? at 5)

Crappy Star Wars commercial spoofs with Hassan telling Darko to come to the Whiteside? Check.

I’d be interested in this lineup even if it required a swap of the Charlotte pick instead… but then I feel as if we should get a second rounder or something. Really at pick 9(?), you figure Wall, Turner, Cousins, Favors will almost assuredly be gone. Then you have a mix between guys like Cole Aldrich, Wes Johnson, Al-Farouq Aminu, Ed Davis, Patrick Patterson, and Hassan Whiteside that at least 2 of those guys will be around. For my part, I’m just hoping it wouldn’t be Patterson and Davis. If we could do this with the Utah pick though, wow. Watch out.

At that point, how would it be to swap the Charlotte pick and the Detroit pick for a guy like Favors or Cousins? Tempting. My ideal draft in this scenario (assuming we end up with 2, 8, and 13): Turner, Aminu, and Whiteside. Really requires some droppage of both of those guys (won’t happen), but it’d sure be nice to shore up our wings with Turner and Aminu and also having Aminu for guys like Rashard, Dirk, Bosh, etc. Even Whiteside could do a little work on Bosh. On the flipside, a more realistic scenario would be Turner, Johnson/Aldrich/Whiteside (in that order, knowing as little as I do about Whiteside, keep in mind), and Henry.

by Mplax on Mar 3, 2010 1:43 PM CST up reply actions  

That being said...

If push came to shove, I could see the Wolves taking on another year of Wilcox or exchanging Hollins for Maxiell to make this deal go through.

by Blakeley on Mar 3, 2010 10:16 AM CST up reply actions  

Ah

see above. You beat me to it.

by Eric in Madison on Mar 3, 2010 10:21 AM CST up reply actions  

I voted for this trade too, but one thought:

Isn’t Al + Utah pick (25) significantly greater than Miller + Foye? So unless we’re putting that much value in getting out of Al’s contract (since Prince isn’t a long term solution for us) aren’t we getting less for Al +#25 than Miller + Foye?

by TWolvesFanInLA on Mar 3, 2010 2:10 PM CST reply actions  

Interesting way to look at it

but it is a significantly stronger draft. You bring up a good question though and I’m not sure what the answer might be.

by Mplax on Mar 3, 2010 2:18 PM CST up reply actions  

No. I know we in draft-world tend to overvalue lottery picks,

but the simple fact is that Al oes not fit into the long-term plans and unless you an nab J. Noah or another [somewhat] proven player like T. Gibson or A. Bynum. Not saying that any of these teams would trade these players for Al, but that’s what we need to get. If no defensive big can be acquired, then a lottery pick is the next best thing.

This team needs to begin to form an identity and allow players to understand and begin to ork on their long-term roles within the team (OKC—the year they drafted Durant and Green; MEM—with the known roles of Mayo, Gay and Gasol). The Wolves cannot just continue to bounce Love back and forth throughout the lineup because of Al. Either Love is the long-term 6th man or he’s the starting PF

by SF on Mar 3, 2010 2:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Plus

You have to factor in that Al isn’t at 100%. You’re banking on him returning to form – which I think if he was in the old system he would return back to his 20-10 form relatively quickly – which reduces his value somewhat. This deal seems fair to me, as there are issues on both sides as to whether either team would do it, what the relative value is of the players/picks being traded, and the fit of each player on their new team.

I can also upside for both teams – obviously the pick for us, but also Tayshaun either holding the fort down or becoming a viable trade piece in a year or two (forget when his contract ends). Al’s contract is a little bit more of a negative because of it’s length, but he’s also a very productive player no matter what, and he would definitely help Detroit change the nature of their divisional games against Indiana (Hibbert), Milwaukee (Bogut), Chicago (Noah), and Cleveland (Varejao/Big Z). Interestingly those matchups are defensive big (them) against offensive big (Al), but Al has shown in the past that he can get his no matter who’s guarding him. You never know, Detroit might look at the relative youth of those bigs and decide Al is worth countering with.

Growing my own "Darko-stache" since last Monday.

by biggity2bit on Mar 3, 2010 2:56 PM CST up reply actions  

One other tidbit

Using Queen City Hoops’ player swap thing replacing Charlie V. with Al helps them by 2 wins, and replacing Ben Wallace with him helps them by +5 wins. For us, replacing Wilkins or Gomes with Prince yields +6 wins minimum (8 wins for replacing Wilkins). Due to Al’s longer contract I could see entertaining the Charlotte pick instead of the Utah pick (as there’d still be value for us available at that spot too), but then again I think low post scoring dominance is hard to find than lanky perimeter defenders who can hit threes.

I guess this is one of those trades that comes down to a values and direction thing – either it gets made to further you in one direction or affirm a value, or it doesn’t get made for the same reasons (but opposite).

Growing my own "Darko-stache" since last Monday.

by biggity2bit on Mar 3, 2010 3:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Does Miller + Foye = Ray Allen?

Ray Allen got traded for the 5th pick in 07. Each deal is different. Different draft depths, different teams with different needs, hard to really compare one situation to the next.

by Full Moon on Mar 3, 2010 2:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Not sure Detroit would want the longer contract of Jefferson

especially if they are looking to sell the team. Prince’s shorter deal could make the team more valuable to a buyer. The might prefer to trade Rip.

If the Wolves get in the top 2 of the lottery, this would be interesting.

by Rumblebee on Mar 3, 2010 2:23 PM CST reply actions  

Detroit would do this trade...

in a heartbeat. The Wolves might do it, also. If Detroit got healthy, and added Jefferson next year, they could be really good.

If the Wolves wanted to get even younger, a trade like this makes sense.

by Andy G on Mar 3, 2010 3:42 PM CST reply actions  

Does concern over using the Charlotte pick go away...

if it’s pushed off until next year? Who knows, it could be in the 20ish range, in a weaker draft.

Dark Love is a-Brewin...

by Bahlgren1 on Mar 3, 2010 3:44 PM CST reply actions  

Random question that's moderately related

Do you think other teams like Detroit value the lottery picks as much as a team like us that are desperately clinging to any straws of hope? I feel as if we might put a little more stock into a 7th-9th pick than most teams and fans do.

by Mplax on Mar 3, 2010 3:53 PM CST reply actions  

Perhaps

I think the pick holds more value for us because we can afford to take the BPA or the player with the highest upside. Other teams might devalue it a bit because they’re more likely to be searching for a particular need at that spot – whether the talent is there or not. I’m thinking as an example of NY last year – did NY really believe that Hill was the best player available, or did he fill a need for them? Why not take a chance on Jennings, for example, or even Terrance Williams?

It might not be much of difference in valuation, but I think for us (in a deep draft) another top ten pick is more attractive than it might be to Detroit.

Growing my own "Darko-stache" since last Monday.

by biggity2bit on Mar 3, 2010 4:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Apparently, Knicks liked 7 guys (Griffin, Thabeet, Harden, Evans, Rubio, Curry and Hill)…they were happy when we took Flynn knowing they’d get Curry or Hill.

Hill was a bust…he couldn’t get off the bench on a terrible, lottery bound team.

by TWolvesFanInLA on Mar 3, 2010 11:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Agree

but the other reason is the Wolves could take that 7th pick and package it with something else to get in the top 5.

by Rumblebee on Mar 4, 2010 6:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Let's trade Al Jefferson while his stock is at rock bottom

I think it’d be dumb to trade Al now, he is at an all time low right now with the arrest and playing on one leg. Keep him, let him heal up, buy low / sell high.

Wolves sell low by trading Jefferson now. Bad Move.

by DR_JPK on Mar 3, 2010 5:13 PM CST reply actions  

Totally Agree

He’s gonna get much healthier next year and will be closer to his previous two seasons then he was this last year. He was absolutely dominant then and you want to trade that for Prince who is primarily a role player and a pick that may or may not work out. If we get lucky in the draft then it works out pretty well for us. But if we miss then we just gave away a really good low post scorer. Which I love K-Love but thats not exactly his game.

by waldo11teen on Mar 3, 2010 10:38 PM CST up reply actions  

the good and the bad

I don’t think you guys give Prince enough credit for being a severley underrated player. He is almost forgotten on that team. However, here’s the bad. I think he and Brewer would overlap too much. Explain, well i think their abilities overlap, their time on thr floor, and their strengths/weaknesses. Now having said that, I would do the deal. Here’s why. Prince and Jefferson have both had injury problems. I have really started to doubt Al’s effort on the defensive end. I just feel Prince is very underrated. He never seems to be selfish, kind of like a Shane Battier, glue guy. I see him as a good fit for us. Finally, we could get a replacement in the draft for Al. If that flops, well Love then gets the minutes that he deserves.

by scottysnowski on Mar 3, 2010 10:52 PM CST reply actions  

I think he was just pointing out

that he might not have been all that underrated. Or else just asking a question. I don’t think he was trying to provide evidence for trading for him.

by Mplax on Mar 4, 2010 2:31 PM CST up reply actions  

So was Christian Laetner.

But before Redd’s injury he was a terrific scorer. Prince was on the team cause he plays defense and is a great role player to a championship team. He logged a lot of minutes all those great Piston runs.

by waldo11teen on Mar 7, 2010 4:22 PM CST up reply actions  

How is Al's stock going to go back up on this team?

How is he going to get 35 minutes a game? It ain’t gonna happen unless Love is gone. It’s either trade Love or trade Al. They can’t play together. We have to sell NOW. I’m sorry, but we just do. He’s already getting drunk after games now. Shows a total lack of commitment to this team and the city. He want out, we should accomodate him.

by John Wall on Mar 4, 2010 12:04 AM CST reply actions  

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ygwf4h8

Wolves:
Bynum
Jeff Foster
Sasha Vujacic

Lakers:
Devin Harris
Wayne Ellington
Yi

Nets:
Al Jefferson

Indiana:
Ryan Gomes
Ryan Hollins

by AnotherDraftPickBitesTheDust on Mar 4, 2010 12:24 AM CST reply actions  

No dice for the Lakers

They’re not going to give up Bynum for that sorry package.

Devin Harris can’t shoot 3’s so that makes him pretty much moot when Kobe is doing the ball handling and 3-pt shooting is important for the PG in the triangle.

Shannon Brown is the Lakers Ellington, but better than Ellington.

And Yi is terrible.

by roundhouse on Mar 4, 2010 1:07 AM CST up reply actions  

Harris isn't as valuable as you seem to think for the Lakers to do this

And why do they need Yi when they have a much better mobile 4 in Lamar Odom? Not to mention that Phil Jackson doesn’t use 2-guards under 6’5 unless they can play point and/or guard the opposing point, which Brown does and Ellington doesn’t.

by pagingstanleyroberts on Mar 4, 2010 5:12 PM CST up reply actions  

This is all dependant on us selecting Turner and the Nets selecting Wall. Also, Sessions and Charlotte’s pick to Indiana for Wes Johnson.

by AnotherDraftPickBitesTheDust on Mar 4, 2010 12:25 AM CST reply actions  

Anyone got a minute to post this on

Detroit Bad Boys? I’d be interested to hear their take on Prince. He is older (30), but only has 1 more year on his contract.

by Cedarpenguin on Mar 4, 2010 12:45 PM CST reply actions  

There’s a lot to like here. If healthy, I think Prince could actually be a decent addition by himself. There’s also a strong play to make with him as a useful expiring.

Say we end up picking #3. Favors has the upside to justfy that pick. Could we turn this into a 3 way deal, sending Prince and something to Philly for Iguodala?

by Blond Ricky on Mar 4, 2010 9:47 PM CST reply actions  

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