Hoopus lessons from the past
by Stop-n-Pop on Mar 4, 2010 6:01 AM CST
73 comments
If recent Wolves history has taught us anything, it is that whenever Al Jefferson goes down, the problem the team faces isn't that his minutes are replaced by Kevin Love it is that they are replaced by guys like Mark Mad...wait a minute. With Big Al out for 2 games because of a DWI, Kurt Rambis started Darko Milicic in his place, once again keeping the team's best player on the bench.
What's amazing about this situation is that while Rambis seems to understand the concept of diminishing returns when replacing a starting level player with a below-average one, he seemingly has no compunction about starting the worst player on the team and giving him 35 minutes. We're looking at you Ryan Hollins. What's even more amazing about this little factoid is that we have a fairly solid backlog of evidence that suggests Love + Hollins = a big bowl of crap (the last time we checked they were -27.1 points/100 possessions as a duo). It will be very interesting to see the GameFlow because my game notes are filled with several mentions of "Hollins + Love = teh suck".
Darko got into some early foul trouble and showed flashes of anger early on in the contest so I can understand Rambis' unwillingness to give him big minutes, but the big frustration last night, and during many recent nights, is that this team continues to run out mismatched pairs at the 4/5. Darko + Love, Love + Jefferson, Love + Gomes, and even Gomes + Jefferson...these are the combos that (relatively) work at the 4/5. If Hollins is going to be thrown out there, who does he play well with? Interestingly enough, that would have been Brian Cardinal.
Hollins made 6-7 shots and grabbed rebounds but he walked away from the game with a team high -17 thanks in large part to his inability to adequately defend or run the pick-and-roll. Also, forgive me for having the following expectation, but a 7 footer with long arms who can high jump 7 feet should have more than 7 rebounds per 36 minutes. Hollins is somewhat digestible in small minutes, but he is untenable as a starter. He's capable of 2-3 game stretches of average play, but he's more than likely to burn you with below average rebounding, unfamiliarity with the p-n-r, and stone hands.
Anywho, the Wolves played an exciting game last night. They benefited big time from Dallas making an equally boneheaded mistake with their starting rotation by failing to go to Rodrigue Beaubois over Jose Juan Barea in place of Jason Kidd. Rajon Rondo, Russell Westbrook, Rodrigue Beaubois...these are the types of guards that have, does, and will continue to give Jonny Flynn fits. Flynn, for the first 3 quarters, played a respectable game, but went into full meltdown mode down the stretch. I don't blame him for this one. Sub 6 footers shouldn't be asked to be the A1 option when it matters in the NBA.
I'll leave you with this.
| Pace | Eff | eFG | FT/FG | OREB% | TOr | |
| Minnesota | 92.0 | 118.5 | 57.6% | 22.8 | 44.4 | 21.7 |
| Dallas | 121.7 | 55.2% | 19.8 | 23.3 | 13.0 |
The Wolves lost a game where they had an eFG of nearly 58%, got to the line at a higher clip than their opponent, and collected 44% of their available misses, yet they lost the flipping game. A -8 on turnovers will do that to you. What is interesting about this is that I counted at least 4 offensive rebounds that led directly to a turnover. Talk about throwing away an advantage.
Until later.
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Hollins
I wrote a thread about this a little bit ago, but I just wanted to remind everyone that Ryan Hollins is in the upper 99% of worst rebounding centers of ALL TIME.
Beyond just that, there are the the intangibles…that Ryan Hollins doesn’t have as well. For Example:
1. He’s one of the worst pick setters of all time.
2. He was Valedictorian of The Troy WIlliamson Pass Catching University Class of 2006
3. For all the talk of his hops, he never really forces anyone to alter their shot.
Hollins is a worse % rebounder than *Mark Blount*
Of course, that takes into account Blount’s years of giving a rip back in Boston before his contract. Astonishing, though, isn’t it?
Special note: His rebounds and fouls are still within one, with fouls one ahead. It’s 163 fouls to 162 rebounds as we come down the stretch of the season. I’m on the edge of my seat.
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
excellent work
I was pondering this very issue not long ago but lacked the iniative to look up Blount’s stats. They are different types of players though…Blount’s issue was more motivation than hands, right? Hollins seems to have the desire, just can’t make his hands work properly.
Please keep us posted on the Hollins board/foul ratio. This is almost as exciting as tracking someone’s attempt to break Yinka Dare’s (RIP) Most Games Without An Assist record.
Essentially...
Only Jason Collins and Brad Sellars are worse rebounding 7 footers. WE’RE WATCHING HISTORY PEOPLE!
A slightly different list based on total rebounding percentage
Here’s a search for 7-footers with career TRB% numbers lower than that of Hollins:
There are only 10 players of that description who’ve been over 7’0" in league history (who played > 100 minutes for their careers). Notable:
Bargnani and Alexis Ajinca among current players.
Tskita! Summer ball’s startin’ up Tskita, we miss you!
Paul Grant!
For single seasons, how many have been worse than Hollins’s spectacularly bad rate for the Wolves this year?? Another 13 or so, with names like Manute Bol and James Edwards (who played almost exclusively outside as a 4-5) on the list. Brad Sellars, of course, and Collins too.
We’re like a parade of horrible rebounding bigs in this franchise.
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
The rebounds/fouls stat reminds me of Matt Buser's Eddy Curry Line
which is more turnovers than assists + blocks + steals.
by Rascal Flatts on Mar 4, 2010 11:32 AM CST up reply actions
Thank god we only signed him for three seasons
Or two with a qualifying offer for a third.
The third year is a player option
It is beyond me how a player with Hollins’ resume could have negotiated it.
Right . . .
. . . but somehow we’re all convinced that if only Glen opens up the pocketbook, Kahn will wisely give the money to the right player in free agency, or trade for the right overpaid veteran.
Give the guy time and all that, but as we move closer to the Fifth Window opening and closing, there is little evidence that Kahn has an ability to obtain talent that exceeds the cost of getting the talent.
Yes, clearly we are *all* convinced of that
No one on this board has ever doubted Kahn’s ability to sign the best free agents to quality deals.
I liked much of what Kahn did before the season
but his low end signings almost all seemed questionable. They committed significant money to a backup PG & C who have done little this season, not to mention the money spent on Sasha. Really would have been just as well off signing end of career, good guys vets to the vet minimum for this season, not like the win total would have been significantly different. Of course, they could have just kept Rhino, Telfair, and Mad Dog, and had about as much production w/o paying Blount to stay home!
The $7 mil or so that could have been saved this season could have been added to the money they committed to these guys for the next couple seasons, and a useful starter could be signed this summer. That just isn’t going to happen now.
Even after his relatively poor performance this year..
It is tough to hate on the Sessions signing.
However, the signing of Pavs and Hollins leave me skeptical of Kahn’s talent assessment.
The only reason to hate on the Sessions signing
is because Flynn is still getting more PT.
Thanks Mplax
I wasn’t referencing Sessions ability so much as the lack of playing time and the fact the Telfair would have had equivalent production for less annual salary and a shorter contract. Including the Blount salary that ultimately came as part of trading Telfair, Sessions ended up costing almost $6 mil this season, if you follow the money trail. Hollins also was additional cost over Rhino/Mad Dog while be no more productive.
Not to get all ex ante on you, but
I just looked at the archives and SnP actually gave the Hollins signing a pretty positive review at the time. Granted, that evaluation was conditioned on Hollins being a 13 to 17 mpg guy and not a starter, but SnP thought that Hollins represented good value given what the Wolves needed.
There’s a difference between bad decisions and decisions that work out badly. I still think that, assuming we’re writing off Hollins now, this one falls in the latter category and doesn’t mean that Kahn is an idiot (or, clearly, a genius).
"Hope" is
not only a belief that things will change despite all evidence to the contrary, but also the only scintilla of attraction that the Timberwolves organization has to offer.
Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies.
Well….not in regards to Hollins.
Dark Love is a-Brewin...
The rebounding thing, too, has worsened.
Hollins is demonstrably worse as a rebounder this year than he’d been in previous seasons. Over time, his TRB%:
Rookie: 9.9%
11.6%
12.9%
12.1%
13.5%
This year: 8.9% so far.
That’s a big dropoff. (I’d call it falling off a cliff if Hollins had ever been that high in the air, so to speak, as a rebounder….) The way the kid’s being used is not agreeing with his boarding, such as it is…. er, was.
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
I was intrigued about that article at the time
because I had looked prior to reading it and I was absolutely convinced that it was a… not good signing.
The article convinced me a little bit, but I still had some major doubts. Still, for 2M I guess it’s not the worst thing in the world.
Player option can protect the player in (at least) 2 ways
1) If team is a poor fit
2) If player’s output outpaces the contract
If the GM thinks the market will bear $X for a player, but the player thinks they are worth $X*3, a player option can provide a compromise.
The GM can say “Gee, I really think you are going to develop into a $X*3 player, but I only have $X right now. So please sign with us, and if you develop the way we both think you will, you can opt out for a bigger deal more commensurate with your output”.
The player thinks “I’ll put in a few years, then opt out of this bad deal and get $X*4”
The GM thinks “I put the chances of this guy opting out at 20% at the highest …”
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Mar 4, 2010 2:54 PM CST up reply actions
pavlovic
gotta hate him too. doesn’t play defense, doesn’t care, just calls for picks and throws up bricks.
by voiceofharlanspast on Mar 4, 2010 3:32 PM CST up reply actions
PT for Hollins and Jawai
along with no legitimate shooting wing to space the floor were the things I found most disappointing coming into the year. (I’m over it now, and have chosen to look past the “punt on this year” approach to the season.) It reminds me of the good ole days when we had legitimate reason to be excited about upgrades at C to guys like Sean Rooks, “Thug Love”, and Andrew Lang. Read: these were not the worst, but yet the names speak for themselves.
This franchise has had its share of terrible centers – we know them when we see them.
After writing this, considered that we also know the flip side.
An upgrade to a Dean Garrett or Ervin Johnson gets it done, provided other pieces are put in place. This helps explain rallying around Darko.
Corey Brewer...
was absolutely brutal last night. 6 turnovers and a ton of bad fouls.
I am glad you don’t blame Flynn for not growing taller or having to take shots for this team. I guess that is something.
I said it last night and apparently I will have to say it again
But say what you will about Corey Brewer, the man created offense like Flynn could only dream of doing. And he looked like he was in relative control while doing it. He consistently beat the transition defense down the floor and got into the lane before the Mavs could get set. This goes a long way into creating mismatches and open looks when the defensive rotations collapse because no one knows who is supposed to guard who in these situations.
Apart from the 6 TOs, which were definitely some bone headed plays (and a couple, at least one, that should have been fouls), and the 38% shooting, Brewer played great. 7 rebounds, 4 assist, 2 steals, and 10/12 from the line! And I even saw one or two plays that should have been fouls but weren’t! Corey never gets the Paul Pierce type calls, but last night he actually got a decent amount of them. And while I don’t condone injuring people, Corey made Terry think twice about trying to play tight defense and Dirk think a few times about taking easy shots against Ryan Hollins. Also, apart from Darko (9) and Pech (12! He truly is our best player), he was the next highest in terms of +/- last night at +6.
I also mentioned that no matter how good the defense was for a 5 minute stint in the 4th, Corey was going to shoot 43-46% no matter what. You just can’t defend a guy who does the crazy $h!t he does.
Rambis/Flynn
The game was obviously winnable, which is a little shocking given who we were playing and our turnovers. S-n-P explains why we lost perfectly. Rambis’ rotations up front, particularly in the final 4-5 minutes. A Love/Darko combo gives us a better shot than Love/Hollins.
As for Flynn, I hope he calms down/grows up, whatever. Until the second half of the 4th quarter, he was a good PG, making passes and decent shot selection. But, then the opposite. Maybe he got too confident/tried too hard, whatever. Maybe he’ll grow out of it. He was about 6 minutes away from a complete, good game.
Flynn quotes in paper
I’ll give this to Flynn. He nails the team’s top two problems on the head in the paper today — turnovers and closing out games. We seem to have streaky guys that can get hot which makes the games more fun to watch than in recent years. But, we have no consistent, steady go-to guy. Maybe that’s all just a product of youth. Maybe a healthy Al gives us a little of that. Not to be too pie-in-the-sky, but I’ll take these two problems over last year’s squad (no shooting, very low talent).
by ChicagoViking on Mar 4, 2010 8:13 AM CST up reply actions
Flynn
did play a pretty solid game. We needed his scoring with Big Al out and he delivered early on. But I think you hit on one of Flynn’s biggest problems: He has the swagger of a superstar and the game of a backup. If his skills and decision making ever catch up with his confidence, he could be a pretty good player. But more often than not, he’s made a fool of himself this season.
by Rascal Flatts on Mar 4, 2010 11:56 AM CST up reply actions
He’ll get a lot better by having supreme confidence than being timid. It would be great, for this year’s W/L purposes, if he had the perfect balance of confidence and understanding of when to make certain plays. But the way he’s approaching the game is probably best for improvement as a player.
And it’s not like his “swagger” is arrogant or out of line. He’s not woofing at the other team, as much as just smiling and having fun out there.
Somehow, I’ve become a Flynn “apologist.” I just don’t think he’s a bad player, and if compared to most Wolves rookies over the years, he seems like he’ll be pretty good in time.
Don't disagree
I think he’s a functional version of Rashad McCants, who was under the illusion that he was a superstar plus had a bad attitude to go along with it. Flynn at least seems like a good team mate and I don’t mind him playing with some swagger. But still…..it’s tough to watch sometimes.
By the way, the college version of Jonny Flynn: Sherron Collins. That kid jacks up way too many shots for the amount of talent he has surrounding him at KU.
by Rascal Flatts on Mar 4, 2010 2:37 PM CST up reply actions
I tuned out for a while in the middle of the game, but I see that Love had 33 minutes — 4 more than his season average. I’d love to see Darko take some of Hollins’ 36 minutes, but he’s really out of shape and as SnP mentions, he lost his cool in the 1st Half. If the big problem was Darko Milicic not getting enough burn, it’s probably not a big indictment of Rambis.
Love must be okay with coming off the bench. It doesn’t affect his play any, and it might even help it a little bit. Minutes are the big thing, so as long as he gets 33 of them in a game like this, there’s nothing to complain about.
Wolves really need Charlotte to start winning. Or they need New Orleans, Memphis, Houston, Miami, or some combination to hit some big losing streaks. That draft pick would be nice to have. Best case (#13 pick) would require Charlotte to stay where they’re at (about .500 and 9th in the East) and have 2 of NOLA/Memphis/Houston trio fall behind them in winning percentage.
Although Flynn played a pretty good game
His mentality on the play where he drove to the hoop at the end of the game was horrible. “I will take this shot, I will take this shot…” must have been flowing through his brain which caused him to heave that prayer over Marion. If he could just pass on a few of those end of game plays where he drives to the hoop, he would be way more effective.
I think that’s been his number one problem this season. He gets into a mindset where he’s already decided to shoot once he starts driving and nothing will change his mind. It’s led to more “adjust the shot and throw up an airball over a big man” shots than I’ve ever seen. Hopefully this is something that’s fixable.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
" It’s led to more "adjust the shot and throw up an airball over a big man" shots than I’ve ever seen. "
Somewhere, Randy Foye just smiled.
my bad
Foye liked to use the glass when he was making those kamikaze drives down the right side of the lane, so technically, those were not airballs.
Exactly, Jonny’s too small to get it off the glass half the time so he just throws it up and hopes for a foul. Hopefully he’ll start, A) passing those off more and B) drawing more fouls.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
Potential silver lining
I know that bringing up Wins Scores or Wins Produced or Win Shares or any such stat can divide up the commenters fairly quickly, and this isn’t intended to launch another debate about advanced stats vs. what we see with eyes, etc. But, in general, Hollins is pretty consistently valued by these advanced stats as the worst player on the team, and so (as I think someone may have mentioned in a comment on a different post), simply trading Hollins’ minutes for Darko’s (or Sean Rooks or Cherokee Parks or Ervin ‘Not Magic’ Johnson) represents more wins for us even though they’re still negative players (just not as negative).
Put differently, what does it say about our squad that we played Dallas tough and had a real chance to win the game despite sitting Al the entire game and playing Hollins for 30+ minutes? In terms of Wins produced or whatever, no Al + Hollins = like -15 wins on the season. The rest of the team must have been doing something well in order to only lose by a bucket.
Growing my own "Darko-stache" since last Monday.
I'm not the student of the game you guys are
but I see what Corey Brewer’s been doing after a long incubation period (during which he was widely criticized) and I remember how Chauncey Billups flourished after leaving Minnesota. Young players need to be nurtured and brought along at their own pace.
Many of you seem to think Flynn has an upside and will become a valued player (if not a starting PG). Why is Hollins incapable of growing as a player?
Just asking. I’m not invested in Hollins but am curious why he’s not salvageable.
Because he's already so old.
He’s like 26 (or 25?) and has already been in the league for several years, and still sucks big time. That’s pretty much it.
by princelyfrank on Mar 4, 2010 10:42 AM CST up reply actions
He has some of the worst hands
in basketball. Scratch that…the worst. It prevents him from using his athleticicm to make plays. He can’t just jump up for an alley-oop because he can’t catch anything in mid air.
Brewer’s problem was allways game speed. The speed at which his body wanted to move and the rate of movement of the game mentally for him where different and as a result his shooting form was unbalanced and he had alot of turnovers.
A Darko Fan since 2010!
by TheEvilProfessor on Mar 4, 2010 11:14 AM CST up reply actions
And Brewer had a high BBIQ which made up for his scrawnyness. Hollins is not only super skinny with terrible hands, he also has poor fundamentals and instincts. Unless he’s REALLY smart, he’s probably not going to just “get it” at this stage of his career.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
While we're making lists of Wolves center futility
Worst hands: Dean Garrett?
Worst sense of balance: Felton Spencer.
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
Mark Madsen had the worst hands.
He would routinely drop passes when we would have had wide open layups under the bucket. I know he should be considered a 4, but the Wolves played him at the 5.
"Most inappropriate use at center":
The envelope…. (drum roll)….. Bob McCann!
(Bob springs up, delighted, from his seat in the audience. He’s wearing his sport coat from the car dealership. He trots toward the stage as the announcer intones:)
“Bob McCann, a 6’6” 244-pound bowling ball of a player, spent significant time at center for the Wolves, including 7 starts at the position during the 92-93 NBA season."
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
If you watched Ryan Hollins for the first time and didn't know his background
you would think he was some young, raw physical specimen that just picked up the game a couple of years ago and whom we are trying to develop as a project. But as others have said, he is already in his mid-20s and he played four years at UCLA. How in the name of God did he not refine his instincts – at least a little bit – playing for one of the top college programs in the history of D-1 basketball!? Add to that the additional years he’s been in the NBA since then and it’s incredible how terrible he still is, despite having immense length and athleticism.
I think Rambis so desperately wants someone of Hollins’ physical make-up that he is willing to sink this year’s ship in order to give Hollins every opportunity to develop through getting a ton of court time. After all, he did sign a multi-year deal, so he’s not going to throw in the towel in Year 1. But it’s tough to see someone who has already received such high-level coaching and experiences suddenly “get it”.
by Rascal Flatts on Mar 4, 2010 11:51 AM CST up reply actions
Sarcasm alert
Sometimes while watching Hollins bobble another pass I think to myself, “Man, Felton Spencer would have made that play!”
Add exasperated expression and exaggerated eye rolls.
Dunno what year it was,
But when I lived uptown one summer, driving down Hennepin one day I passed Felton Spencer and Sammy Mitchell, who were riding their bikes on the shoulder. It was a light day for traffic and everything, but still, my first instinct was to shout at him to wear a helmet and get onto the sidewalk. At 7’ tall, Spencer had the worst sense of balance I’ve ever seen. Seeing him on a mountain bike…. (Shudder).
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
Rambis Player Rotations
The question continues to be asked. Please see my recommended fanpost: A conversation between Kahn and Rambis…I could be completely off-base, but it does make sense of Rambis’ player rotations without assuming Rambis is completely inept as a coach…
We get it
you took a combination of weird rotations and a player development focus and made it into a fake conversation between Rambis and Kahn. There’s not much to comment about that hasn’t already been said or won’t be said in every game thread.
If people get it, then why does everyone keep asking?
The wolves are in full tank mode, they have been since win #13. So don’t bang your head against a wall when Rambis trots out Flynn, Pavlovic, Hollins, Darko, and Jawai with the game on the line…
Is there money somehow involved here?
Either that of someone deduced DR_JPK’s login password and is messing with them ?
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Mar 4, 2010 10:06 PM CST up reply actions
There's a difference between "getting it"
and “believing it firmly enough to stop all discussion about it.”
Also, I’ve never seen someone plug a FanPost as much as you are this one. It’s comical.
I contemplated a KLJ pseudonym
but ruled that out because of their style. He definitely wants people to read his fake conversation though.
Most Athletic Big, Ever to Wear a T-Wolves Uni!
I seem to remember that being the description of Hollins around here. I challenged that a little — seems to me that there was a #21 that was pretty athletic (and I’m not talking about Stacey King, in case you are wondering). Nope, s-n-p told me, Hollins was even more athletic than KG.
Then, I watched him play and my first thought was — this guy has the springiest legs in the history of the world because no one should be able to high jump 7’ when they are lugging around hands made of stone like this dude.
Pining for a Troy Hudson/Marko Jaric backcourt.
it is a fairly unique package
;)
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Apparently Brewer broke Terry's face last night
http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nba/news/story?id=4965447
So there is that…
Dallas fans were pretty unhappy with Corey on that.
In their game thread they seemed convinced it was intentional. One of those in-game reactions…. I’m not sure I give Corey credit for being able to do things like that on purpose.
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
I will say this
If I was going to do something like that on purpose, I would probably have used my left elbow rather than wrapping my left arm around him successfully and then hitting him with my right elbow… I’m assuming that’s going to be the natural reaction for just about everyone.
If Corey thought about this and decided to go with his right arm so it looked more like an accident in the split second that he turned around and saw Terry trying to dry hump his leg, he’s smarter and quicker than I gave him credit for.
Also, I said it in the game thread
but I just want to say it again. The “foul” that Ryan Hollins committed on Dirk when he set up for a charge out by the three point line was an absolutely tremendous play. There is no excuse for calling that a defensive foul. Sure he flopped a little bit, but the refs wouldn’t have called it if he hadn’t. The refs might not like flopping, but it really is a vicious circle that they don’t seem to want to stop (even though the onus lies on the refs more than the players).
I would have been fine with a no call, but when Hollins’ feet were planted so well and he took the contact perfectly as he was standing still and Dirk was running into him… there is no way that was a defensive foul.
Wrong Emphasis
way more time is spent on this board criticising Flynn or Hollins or Pavs or debating why Jefferson wasn’t traded then is spent admitting who actually chose these players (or chose not to trade them). These decisions didn’t happen out of thin air. This team does have a GM who is responsible for these moves
by Son of Gerald Green on Mar 4, 2010 5:36 PM CST reply actions
Because
a) You don’t know how good someone will be until they actually play. Yes it hurts that we took Flynn over a guy like Curry. But Flynn is still one of the most consistently productive rookies out there.
b) Hollins was a decent signing (I’d prefer he didn’t have an option year), he’s a guy you almost have to try out in our current situation with our current needs. If he works out we have 2 years of a great center at 2M. If he doesn’t work out, we use him as filler next year or let his contract run for 4M more than we would like. Still not nearly as bad as having another Jaric. Pavs was also a placeholder. No one thought he would be this bad. He was a moderately productive starter on the Cavs during their championship run. I wasn’t thrilled about the signing, but I wasn’t too worried about it as it’s only for one year either.
c) Not trading Jefferson was most likely a good idea. He wasn’t going to get anything great for him and now we can hopefully trade him during the draft or offseason when his trade value is hopefully higher (otherwise wait until the deadline next year). Why are you in such a rush to move Jefferson?
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