Poll: Who's the Wolves' best player
by biggity2bit on Apr 2, 2010 1:59 PM CDT
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PrintInterpret 'best' anyway you want.
The stuff below the jump is a repost of a comment I made elsewhere in order to fulfill the 75 word minimum.
Considering all this draft talk
I thought this was a really interesting and telling quote from Doc Rivers about why the Thunder are on the rise (and by comparison why we’re struggling):
"The one thing you see when a young team plays well, it’s clear that there’s one player that’s better than all the other young players,‘’ said Rivers. "That allows all of the other young players to play their roles. In most cases, young teams are all even [in terms of the players’ talent] and they’re all fighting each other to be the star. There’s no doubt that Durant is the guy on this team.’’
Which description of a young team sounds like us? Makes me think of how Jonny Flynn and Corey Brewer have seemingly had blinders on all season in looking for their shot, about how Love has sulked at coming off the bench and Al just goes and does his thing. It’s interesting in this context to note that arguably the three guys who have made the most effort in playing within the system offensively and defensively are the three players almost no one questions for wanting to have back: Sessions, Ellington, and yes Darko.
I think Kahn is convinced that Rubio is a star, but he’s not here yet. I hope hope hope we get Wall or Turner this year. I don’t care who on the active roster we give up to get them. If Coach Rivers’ comments are true, though, we will struggle to go anywhere until we have that guy who is the unquestioned star in his peers’ eyes, and as of this moment, neither Al nor Love nor Jonny no anyone else on the Wolves’ roster is that unquestioned star.
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Kinda wish
you’d put Flynn and Brewer’s names were choices. I can see people voting for them. Especially Brew. If people interpret “best player” as someone they’d really like to see stay with this organization. Plus I’m sure someone could make a good arguement for him (not sure I could though).
Temporary Bobcats Fan - Actively rooting against: MIA, CHI, MIL, TOR
I thought about it
but the poll idea (I thought) was to discern who the community thought was better between Al and Love. You can also vote ‘Neither’ if you think Flynn, Brewer, or other guys are better.
"Thankfully, they are not straw-colored brain bats."
Brewer for me
I voted neither because I like Brewer. Start of the season I have to say that I was hating Brewer. This year has really changes my mind. He is growing into a very strong player.
by scottysnowski on Apr 2, 2010 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions
For me, I interpret best by this question:
20 seconds left in the game. My team is down 2 and my life depends on the outcome. Which player do I want taking that last shot? On the Wolves, I’ll throw the ball into Al and let him do his thing.
what if someone asked you this question
at the beginning of the game and you had to decide who would play 36 minutes and who would play 12 minutes (between Al and Love)? You die if the Wolves lose.
Is this not the more appropriate question?
I think its gotta be love.
He does everything better but score.
by Rubio Rubio RU-BI-O on Apr 2, 2010 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm cool with your answer
but curious about how you don’t think it’s a more appropriate question.
Note, I write curious and not “I think you’re stupid.” I’m fine with you having this opinion, just curious.
#1. To me better player means, helps me win more games.
#2. To you better player means the player most likely to score on any given possession, or to be perhaps more fair, the player more likely to score on a clutch possession.
Seems to me that #1 includes #2, if you believe that #2 helps you win games. So why not just decide on helping you win the game as opposed to helping you win a game in one particular way?
Perhaps I’m being unfair and or not understanding your larger point.
It is an odd criteria for what is valuable
Having the guy who can hit the last shot is important, but how often has a Wolves game come down to the last shot? You need a guy who can get you to the last possession with the game on the line, which means improving the team in multiple ways. Once you get to that last play it’s more about drawing up a good inbounds play to confuse Jonny Flynn and/or Corey Brewer than it is about being able to pound it into the post.
You die if the Wolves lose
Please be playing the Nets.
by Bad News Wolves on Apr 3, 2010 1:24 AM CDT up reply actions
I voted for Big Al
Because ultimately I think both Love and Al are centers, and Al having more height, weight, and length versus Love gives him an advantage defending centers versus Love. Neither of these guys have the agility to guard PF’s in this league.
Impact
I think best means the player who impacts the game the most (defense, rebounding, getting teammates involved, scoring, etc.) In that case I think Love has to be considered better than Jefferson even though Love is more of a role player than Jefferson.
by Rubio Rubio RU-BI-O on Apr 2, 2010 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions
I voted for Big Al, but I think it is close
Love is younger, a better outside shooter, a better passer, a better per-minute rebounder, has a cheaper contract, and plays slightly better but still poor defense.
Jefferson is a better shotblocker, a 10x better scorer on the block, and has a better attitude (IMO).
Teams tend to highly (over?) value interior scoring, so Jefferson’s trade value would be higher IMO.
If we are using TimAllen’s system, definitely Al by a landslide.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
With Tim's criteria, I'd actually pick Al
over most players in the league. We’ve seen him score bucket after bucket in a row, despite double teams, in the 4th in certain games. I’d hate to expire due to an off-balance fade-away hucked up by Kobe.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Apr 2, 2010 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Al
I think Al is a better player, but would rather keep Love b/c:
-talent level is close and Love may be better in the triangle.
-Love is a much better value for the money.
-Love is 4 years younger, which is significant.
-I think trading Al has a much better chance of netting us Granger, Gay etc.
The shipped has sailed on Jefferson
At least that’s how I see it. Putting aside my argument about his lazy play, the truth is that he will never be the guy MN fans fell in love with, ceretainly not on this team. He is a better low post scorer than Love, but right now, he barely outscores Love on a per minute basis. And that’s with the offense running through him, often on possession after possession. Last year, pre-injury he was scoring at a great rate, but with an incredible usage. He took more shots than any other center by a wide margin, and had more missed shots per game (10) than most centers had attempts. He will not see those numbers again because, thank goodness, he will never be used like this again. The team identity is in transition, based on coaching style and positions available for upgrade, and will be necessarily wing-oriented for scoring. Jefferson will not be having the ball pounded in to him on a team of ball movement and slashing wings. In his favor he will be more difficult to double as part of a team with multiple scoring options, but only if he improves on passing out of trouble. The one benefit he has over Love, low post scoring, is part of a very static game that, if all goes well, will quickly be gone. Love will both be better able to get his points within the flow of the offense, but facilitate the offense as well and not clog the lane. It was one thing when Jefferson was a 23 ppg player, but he’s now a 17 ppg guy and my guess would be that that’s only going down as the roster upgrades.
It's good to know these things. I was clueless before...
- that a 24 year old returning from ACL surgery, who was widely considered an All-Star snub last season, should basically consider himself worthless to the team because of a bad season
- that “if all goes well”, we’ll no longer need a reliable post scorer. Take a look at a list of recent champions (and conference finalists, for that matter) who didn’t have Michael Jordan on their team and tell me how many didn’t have a reliable option in the post. The Pistons, maybe?
- that Kevin Love is a better defender than Al Jefferson. Not sure where this comes from but we’re obviously not watching the same game. As bad as Al Jefferson is on D, Love may be one of the few players he is better than.
Look, I’m not bashing Love. He’s a great rebounder, good passer and brings a lot of intangibles to a team. But that’s what he is. An intangibles, dirty work kind of guy. He’s a more talented version of Brian Cardinal. He’s can’t create his own shot, and unless he puts in a lot of work, he’ll never be a “go to in the clutch” kind of guy.
Al Jefferson, when healthy, is a perennial All-Star and one of the most reliable scoring options in the league. When he had Mike “I Won’t Shoot” Miller, Randy “I Can’t Shoot” Foye, ‘Shaddy McCants and pre-filtered Brewer’s Brew on his team, he took a lot of shots because there was no one else to take them. With better players, sure his numbers will go down. But I don’t think the Love v. Jefferson argument is even close when you look at the overall body of work.
Nice comprehension
The point is that that “all star snub” season is not going to happen again, and it has nothing to do with Jefferson’s age or knees. Jefferson took 20 shots per game that year for his 23 ppg. That ain’t happening again. It’s just not going to be that kind of team going forward or something is seriously broken. The ball is going to move around more, and it’s going to fall into the hands of guys who can create their own shot, God willing. It’s not like the Wolves can get away with no post option, but it doesn’t have to be Jefferson, given his low scoring efficiency and poor defense. They’d be fine with a guy who could score in the paint off a more limited number of post moves, but who also scores by cutting to the basket and receiving passes on the move. This provided they have the compliment of wings who can both slash and hit from the outside. That’s a bigger need right now and the one that should be addressed this summer.
Of course, as Jefferson gets better teammates
he’ll be willing to pass more. And if teams can’t constantly double him, because we have other options, he’ll get easier and more efficient scoring chances. Pau Gasol gets plenty of All-Star considering despite the fact that he gets a limited amount of touches, isn’t a great defender and isn’t even the #1 option on his team. I don’t see any reason why Al couldn’t be that same type of player.
Al isn't an All-Star
and he doesn’t make the players around him appreciably better. He’s a good player, but he’s not a foundational type player. “Realizing” he needs to play better defense 3 years or whatever into his tenure here says it all for me. He’s a good player, but he isn’t a Roy, an Oden, a Durant, a Wade etc. type player.
"Thankfully, they are not straw-colored brain bats."
He's not a Roy, Durant or Wade, sure
but Oden? C’mon, that guy has done next to nothing in this league. His biggest claim to fame thus far is dirty pictures on the internet.
And no, Al isn’t an All-Star right now, sure. But he was pretty close last year (without Shaq he would’ve been one) and could be an All-Star again if he gets back to 2008-2009 form. I’d agree with Kahn’s assessment that’s he a #2 kind of guy, maybe #3.
But we’re talking about best player on the Wolves. And that’s clearly Al.
not fair
Comparing Love to Cardinal is not fair at all. Varejo is a better comparsion. Comparing Love to Cardinal is a real slam.
by scottysnowski on Apr 2, 2010 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions
ya timAllen was making valuable points
and then he lost me with the Love and Cardinal comparison, pls dont say that again.
Its not close...
Outside of his low post scoring Love is better in every other aspect of the game(rebounding, passing, defense, etc.).
I believe Al will probably win because people are so focused about what he does offensively and Love comes off the bench but Love has a larger impact on the game.
I bring this question up all the time, if both guys were struggling offensively who would have the larger impact on the game? I personally don’t believe that if Al isn’t scoring he isn’t helping the team win games.
Odds are the Wolves will pick #3 or #4. It’s not impossible to imagine one of Wall or Turner being available then (e.g., if a frontcourt-hungry team like Golden State is in the top 2), but for the sake of argument, let’s say Wall and Turner are gone. While I don’t see the Wolves having the assets to move to #1 or #2 without giving up their first pick, #4 could be a different story (just like last year).
So, let’s say the Wolves take Cousins at #3, and then have a deal in place to move enough other assets (one of Al/Love, + maybe some other riff raff) to get the #4 and be in position to take Favors. Would you do it?
On the one hand, Al and Love have both proved to be good NBA players with plus skill. OTOH, they’re the top 2 players on a 15-win team for a reason or three (not all of the reasons are their fault, granted).
Cousins + Favors is a much better sized and much more athletic and complimentary combo. Better defensive potential, better overall potential, could even be dominant if things worked out, but much more bust potential, too.
If you had a choice of Jefferson/Love, or Cousins/Favors (+ potentially trade booty from dealing the other PF), which would you choose? It’s sort of sad to say—given I’m comparing the two guys in the running for our NBA squad’s best player against two prospects, one of whom has make-up/personality questions and the other has the dreaded “rawness” issue- but I’m not sure of the answer… At first blush it’s easy to say no, that the reason they suck is more to do with the wings than the Love/Jeff combo and its limitations. That is true. OTOH, I can’t shake the feeling that this team won’t ever turn around until they completely turn the page and raze everything. It’s just hard to see the Wolves making a legitimate postseason run featuring this frontcourt.
I’ll probably regret posting this idea, as I’ve really had blinders on for Wall and Turner for so long that I haven’t really taken a really close look at the bigs. But what the hell. It’s been a long season…
If it floats like a duck...
…she’s a witch! Burn her! Burn her!
I agree – our team floats like a duck and I’m all for razing it. I’d happily give up our first pick and whatever current roster assets we have in order to get into the top two. Done and done.
To get to your Cousins/Favors suggestion – the big thing there for me is too much inexperience given too much responsibility. You’d be talking a starting five of:
Flynn
Brewer
SF
Favors
Cousins
Down the road potentially good, but right now? Ugh – not nearly enough experience to help guide those guys through their learning curves, IMO. Could be good, but could also blow up in our face for a couple years. If either had Turner’s demeanor I wouldn’t worry as much about it, but so far they seem like players who’d do well playing next to CP3, Derron Williams, or Brandon Roy type personality to keep them in line and keep them focused and motivated.
"Thankfully, they are not straw-colored brain bats."
Yeah, the fewest-wins record would definitly be in danger. And while it’s always tempting to dream on potential, once upon a time Tyson Chandler and Eddie Curry were supposed to bring the Bulls Dynasty #2…
Few Things
1. There’s much more that goes into being a better player than just pure one on one scoring ability. If this was the case-Ben Gordon could be considered one of the 10 best players in the league.
2. Looking at this from a Purely Stats- Based Perspective
-Love leads in PER
-Love leads in WOW Score
-Love leads in WARP
-Love has a better plus/minus
-Love has a higher Production Differential compared to his opponents
-Love has a higher Offensive Rating
-Love has a Higher Off./Def Rating Differential
-Love has a higher Rebound Rate
-Love has a better Pure Point Rate (Although Al’s Improved in this area)
Subjective observations
-Love’s better off-the ball on Offense (Such as Setting Screens, Pick N Roll/ Pick N Pop plays)
National Observations
John Hollinger Kevin Love has All-Star Potential
http://www.howlintwolf.com/2009/12/espn-chat-with-john-hollinger/
John Hollinger Kevin Love merits All-Star Consideration
http://www.howlintwolf.com/2010/01/wolf-track-chat-with-john-hollinger-espn-2/
I get it
but why do you hate John Hollinger?
Sorry, couldn’t resist.
"Thankfully, they are not straw-colored brain bats."
Hah, I love it
From a stats perspective, you list like 10 things. From a subjective perspective, you list one, which is off-the-ball offense. It almost perfectly encapsulates why advanced stats are still fairly worthless in the grand scheme of things.
Listing 10 stats
Perhaps listing 10 different statistics is a recognition that stats do not tell you everything. All statistics have weaknesses, caveats, etc.
In this situation Love is ranked substantially higher in 10 different statistics all designed to measure player quality. To disagree with this, you have to say that all 10 DIFFERENT measures are flawed in some odd way so that all ten different measures point to Love being superior.
If it’s 5 stats for Love, 5 stats for Jefferson, that stats are much less convincing.
If’ I’m trying to sell you a bag or oranges for cheap you might wonder about the quality of those oranges. You reach in the bag and pick 1 orange, it’s high quality. You think, Ok that’s just one orange. Littleboxes is an asshole. Clearly he put the best orange on top. Bastard. I’m going to reach in really deep to test another orange. This is is also good. you think, that bastard just got lucky, all the other oranges could still be bad. So you look at a few more, all good. Finally, you conclude, even though you have not seen all the oranges, that it’s very unlikely you would draw 10 different oranges, all of high quality, and yet the bag would be mostly low quality.
Jose is just trying to show you lots of oranges. It’s an appropriate method of argument.
That's this year
To be fair, last year some of those stats tipped in Jefferson’s favor. In addition, Jefferson had to start a lot of games this year next to Flynn and Hollins. Wowzers. That’ll hurt your +/- plenty bad.
But yeah, tough to argue with who is the better player this season. That’s some pretty overwhelming evidence.
by Rascal Flatts on Apr 2, 2010 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Considering such stats
Encompass Rebounding, Defensive Effectiveness, Scoring Efficency, and Passing Ability. I’m having a hard time grasping your position.
They attempt to quantify all of those things
but I don’t think they do a great job of it. I think stats are inherently flawed when it comes to describing how well someone plays that game of basketball.
I should emphasize "advanced statistics".
Some statistics, like points per game or what have you, are valuable in helping to describe certain aspects of a players game. Some statistics, like PER, are 100% worthless. But no statistic is better, in my opinion, than the naked eye.
I’m planning a fan post on this very subject .
My "naked eye" observations on Jefferson
were posted recently as follows:
Jefferson plays lazy I’m not sure if it’s always been the case, and I doubt he is really lazy, since I think he works hard on aspects of his game, but I watch him and I don’t see him put in any real effort for the most part until the ball is in his hands. I base this on three areas he seems lacking that are really mostly about effort.
1. Defense. It’s been beaten to death, but if the official scorer could award baskets due to "defensive indifference" the way they do stolen bases in baseball, Jefferson would be a real stat stuffer.
2. Screens. Typically Jefferson will leave this to anyone else on the court, but when he goes out there to set a ball screen, he gives it the most prefunctory, half-assed attempt. Then, after whiffing on the man he’s trying to pick off I don’t think he typically aggressively rolls to the hoop. It may be my perception, but he doesn’t really look to get the ball on the move, and I assume he likes to receive the ball with his back to the bucket.
3. Posting up. Yes, he’s active when he receives the ball, but he really never fights for position. He’s much more interested in actuially receiving the ball than getting it in an advantageous position, so he’ll keep giving up ground in order to encourage the entry pass, which is the opposite of how it works. Typically, he’ll end up getting the ball way out of the paint, requiring much more manuevering to get into his hot zone. That or he’ll settle for the 15 foot jumper at that point.
I really never see Jefferson fighting for anything on the basketball court. But if you see it differently, feel free to make your case.
So my naked eye doesn’t really like Jefferson’s performance on the court any more than the advanced stats you don’t care for.
This is worthy of a fanpost
Although I urge you to take a more reasonable position than PER being 100% worthless. Clearly not true.
You do have a valid point but I don’t think it’s “stats are worthless.”
Stats are sometimes worthless. Stats are more often than not worthless. Maybe.
We might also quibble with what “worthless” means. But now I’m being difficult.
stats just need to be put in the proper context
much easier said than done. Stats make underlying assumptions which don’t always hold. The biggest problem is agreeing on what those assumptions are and whether they align with the discussion at hand. Some stats value efficiency, which may work very well for regular season, but maybe not for a championship level team, etc.
A Darko Fan since 2010!
by TheEvilProfessor on Apr 3, 2010 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions
long story short
during the regular season, you have a limited amount of time to prepare your team for any individual opponent. So some plays that work during the regular season will not work in the playoffs when a team can gameplan for alot more. By having more play options, your efficiency stats will be much higher than they should be in the regular season versus the playoffs. You likely can’t even take those stats from historical playoff games because of small sample size (it could potentially work though). Make sense?
A Darko Fan since 2010!
by TheEvilProfessor on Apr 4, 2010 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Good explanation
I’m sold on the weak claim that some situations will be changed, but I still think that saying efficiency isn’t valuable in the playoffs is a very big exaggeration.
I didn't say that they
are completely useless, but simply less reliable or telling than others depending on the situation. Over the course of a season there are lots of games and a solid player will eventually show up as that in the stats. But playoffs are different in that they rely on specific matchups which could completely negate a players value in that series. Usually the team that is the most versatile from a lineup perspective has the best odds of advancing because they can’t be exploited as easily. Last time I checked there wasn’t a very good stat for that. I should make one up and call it the TEPI (TEP index)
A Darko Fan since 2010!
by TheEvilProfessor on Apr 4, 2010 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Just to clarify
I’m not trying to slam AL. The question is who is a more effective player- right now? I used a series of Stats. Measures to give an opinion. As I said the other day. Love and Al are the only 2 players on the team with a PER over 13.00 or even a Full WARP. I think people are misguided when the blame the Wolves problems on either of these 2- this season.
All stats probably have some flaws. Examples include
- 2007-2008- Al clearly being the best player on the Team- yet not having a Very Good/Plus-Minus
-PER tends to overrate scoring volume.
-WOW don’t factor in Defensive in anyway.
-Offensive and Defensive Ratings are greatly influenced by surronding talent
-True Shooting Percentage could be influenced by situation
Using enough stats together should paint a pretty good picture of a player’s effectiveness on both ends of the court.
Don't forget PER
with placing a great value on rebounding rates as well. Unfortunately no one that I know keeps free stats on stats like setting good screens, boxing out your man to help a teammate get a rebound, etc.
You know, the stuff that really wins games. The stats that a lot of places keep only tell a part of the story. I always think of it like this:
In the world of science, mathematical equations are the language with which how the world works can be explained. Similarly in Basketball, the proper advanced statistics are the language with which we can quantify what we are seeing on the court. The significant difference is that advanced statistics or the language of basketball is still in it’s infant stages. There are not enough words or clearly conceptualized ideas to properly describe what we are seeing. Someday there will be, but not yet.
A Darko Fan since 2010!
by TheEvilProfessor on Apr 3, 2010 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Craig Smith is to PF as Kevin Love is to C?
That’s my hunch, both are undersized to play the position they can defend. Love is clearly the more productive offensive player, but I think it’s a valid comparison.
I love stats, I believe they show merit in objectively judging the value of players, but I don’t think they actually capture anything on the defensive end of the court yet. Just look at a guy like Craig Smith who can have positive win shares on defense and can have a similar defensive rating as Kevin Love. Both of these guys are just absolutely terrible defenders but statistics can’t capture it. The same reason guys like Hollinger argue Love deserves more playing time is the same reason he argued the Clippers got a Steal in the trade of Bassy and Smith for QRich. How has Craig Smtih actually impacted that team? It’s why players like Mike Miller dominate WOW even though Miller’s opponents dominated him on the other end of the court.
I like Kevin Love, I think he is a well rounded offensive player who is an amazing rebounder. But I’ve also seen him stand under the basket failing to contest shots, protect the rim, or make any sort of difference on defense and that has to count for something. If both Al and Love are going to stand around on D I would rather have the guy who is longer, bigger and stronger.
Until we have a stat for defense that measures something accurately, we won’t be able to assess how well a player impacts a team beyond his offensive contributions.
agreed
defensive stats have a loooooooooooong way to go.
A Darko Fan since 2010!
by TheEvilProfessor on Apr 4, 2010 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions
and by looking at your comments history
its all “jefferson better than love”, or “jefferson all the way” “jefferson is the man”, “Love < Jefferson”, those one liners won’t garner you much respect if you don’t back up your claim.
Defensive Stats
1. To compare Love and Craig Smith as Defenders is silly in comparing their rebounding rates. The goal of Defense is possesion victory in the form of either forcing a turnover or collecting a missed shot. Limiting Offensive Boards is a valuable defensive skill.
2. Plus/Minus rates should also encompass one’s defensive skills.
3. Positioning matters or how else could you explain Chuck Hayes being in the NBA at 6’6 with Zero Offensive Skills. Wes Unseld was a historically great defender at around Love’s size. I’m not comparing Love to Wes or Dave Cowens- I’m only pointing one can be an effective low-post defender minus Height.
4. You’re assuming that sources like John Hollinger and Kevin Pelton and others who base their arguments on stats never watch games. Hollinger in the past has admitted Love’s lacking on the Defensive End of the Court. At the same time- his total productivity is such that he considered his play to be an All-Star Level. Pelton in BBP would mention if Defensive Mulitiplier Totals wouldn’t match indiviidual scouting reports.
5. Was Mike Miller overrated last year? This is hard to answer since I’m not sure what method to evaluate. WARP is probably my personal favorite. It gives Miller 3.5 WARP from Last Season. Along with Foye’s 0.9. Al will be lucky to equal last season’s total in far less minutes. So I would argue WARP is pretty accurate in evaluating overall effectiveness.
The goal of defense definitely is possession victory. You either force a turnover, rebound the ball, or allowed a made shot. Stats capture forcing turnovers and defensive rebounds. Stat’s do not capture your ability to prevent made shots. That gaping flaw in using statistics to produce a defensive rating is troubling to me because with 5 guys on the floor, +/- still can’t be an effective measuring tool because it measures team defense not individual defense. What I can use to assess defense are my own two eyes, and those eyes see the great rebounder Kevin Love blocking out his man and clearing the lane for a perimeter player to drive right by and get an uncontested layup. Those same eyes also see Kevin Love standing 10 feet away from the hoop failing to close out on perimeter shooters and instead turning his head and establishing position to box out and get a rebound. My eyes tell me that Kevin Love sacrifices playing defense to be a better rebounder, stats can’t confirm that beyond Kevin Love is a good rebounder.
Wes Unseld played in a different era, I think that’s an unfair comparison. Chuck Hayes also uses his great positioning to guard centers as I don’t think you want Chuck Hayes closing out on perimeter shooters. Kevin Love’s so called positioning defense is best used at Center, and unfortunately in today’s modern game other centers can jump right over Kevin Love and score no matter what Love’s positioning may be. Can love get better? Yes, Yes he can. But I think by better he is only going to get stronger, not more athletic, and therefore will continue to matchup best with Centers and not Power Forwards. His height problem is never going away, just like a team anchored by Chuck Hayes is never going to win a title.
John Hollinger also said Love was “essentially the new Brad Miller” coming out of UCLA in his annual college numbers projected to the pros column. Brad Miller plays Center. Kevin Love was a Center in college and is a center in the NBA. As an NBA center he is not tall enough to anchor a championship contending front line. Could he be an all-star someday? Maybe, even David Lee was an all star this season in the east. Ultimately John Hollinger’s conclusions on his ceiling doesn’t properly assess whether Love can reach that ceiling in a frontcourt paired with Al Jefferson. Pre-injury Al Jefferson got a heckuva lot more media praise as a future all-star than Kevin Love has.
Few Responses
1. It seems somewhat unfair to blame Kevlar for terrible perimeter Defense by J-Fly and Bassy along with a collection of others. Is Kevin Love be the type of defender that easily covers for the mistakes of others? No. One thing he could possibly improve doing is his ability to take charges. Al Jefferson in all likeihood isn’t going to be that type of defender either. I’m of the opinion that Kevin’s more likely to improve on this end of the floor than Al. On account of the age differences.
2. Your correction in that we lack a mobile big to guard against the types of players that are going to draw 4’s away from the basket. I’m generally not as worried about this long-term since the majority of 4’s aren’t what I considered elite shooters in the 10-18 foot range. For example- LMA has an EFG of .422 on Jumpers. Is this great defense? NO. Although you probably don’t lose as much in total value here- when you consider Offensive Boards prevented. It should also be noted that Al isn’t great at this skill either.
3. The issue isn’t who was a better player before Al’s Injury. The issue is who is a better player now. Both players have gotten some suggestion from similar quarters as playing at an All-Star level. They’d both be clearly bottom of the roster type of talent there. The issue though is who is a better player- now. I’ve stated my piece in this regard.
Corey Brewer
I voted neither because I honestly believe right now our best player is Brewer. I’d have to say this is largely due to effort. Love/Jefferson are probably more talented, but our best player right now is Corey Brewer.
PS between Jefferson/Love I’d probably take Love, Although he’s clearly an inferior scorer… If Jefferson got to post up one on one all game he’d score 35 a night.
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