Potential Trade
by Jose Cordoba on May 10, 2010 3:13 PM CDT
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I caught this bit from John Hollinger- "http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2010/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=PERDiem-100510
"The Jazz, meanwhile, are looking at whether to trade a first-round pick from the Knicks that now should land in the top 10 in the June 24 draft. The temptation to package it with Andrei Kirilenko to pawn off his $17 million expiring contract may be too great to ignore, especially since they could clean up their balance sheet enough to re-sign Boozer and fellow free agent Kyle Korver, and then use their midlevel exception to upgrade the backcourt depth".
This type of move would be perfect from a Wolves perspective. AK-47 (For 1 Year) and a Top 10 pick for Cap Space and Ryan Gomes dead-weight contract. AK-47 would be a perfect fit for the Wolves as a 3/4 Hybrid who is a Plus/Plus Defender. His health though is an issue- but it'd only be for one year anyway. AK 47 is also an excellent passing big man.
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what else would we have to include in that package to
make the money work? We don’t have that much cap space and they obviously want enough room to resign boozer.
A Darko Fan since 2010!
by TheEvilProfessor on May 10, 2010 3:19 PM CDT reply actions
That $17 million is pretty brutal, isn't it?
But AK is exactly the kind of guy I’ve been talking about wanting—a vet who can still play and who has had some team success.
The Wolves would have to send SOME salary back to make it work—say Hollins and Brewer (roughly $6 million) for AK and the pick.
Not sure this is the best use of cap space, but it’s somethng I would consider.
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on May 10, 2010 3:23 PM CDT reply actions
it would defintely
continue us along the path to be an all euro team. :)
A Darko Fan since 2010!
by TheEvilProfessor on May 10, 2010 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions
This would be awesome.
AK47 would help us a lot next year, and to get another top-10 pick without giving up any real talent? Yes sir.
I am guessing to make the trade work
we have to kick in more salary then they would ideally like so they would want back their pick for part of the salary figure. That way they can always roll their pick to next year or take a cheaper priced talent. Still a good use of cap space though.
A Darko Fan since 2010!
by TheEvilProfessor on May 10, 2010 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions
I thought I read something that
if the trade is done before the end of the season, the Wolves don’t have to count their unsigned players (Rubio, Pek) against their cap space to make it work. Or that they could also trade some of their ECs right now (say Blount and Wilkins).
I’m not a cap expert, but I believe they could trade Blount, Wilkins, and Gomes to Utah for Kirilenko and the 1st rounder during the window before this year’s books close.
It’s an intriguing trade, especially since the Wolves save money not buying out Gomes, which means Kirilenko’s actual cost is closer to $14 million. My guess is that Utah would throw in some cash to make the deal work.
That is incorrect.
The latest we could have traded our 2010 expiring contracts was February’s trade deadline. Trades are forbidden until after the season is over, at which point those expirings will have expired.
I know what you are saying
but I saw someone post something about being able to trade guys on expiring contracts for a week or so at the end of the season. I really don’t know, I was surprised when I read the post, but it was someone who seems pretty informed on the subject.
SHRINK, where are you!
Sorta true
But didn’t the non-playoff Wolves trade Mike James to the out-of-playoffs Rockets for Juwan Howard before the finals ended? Basketball-reference has the trade as completed on June 14, the same day of Game 4 of the finals that year. I don’t know that this proves anything but it does seem to indicate that teams eliminated from the postseason can make trades while the postseason is still going on. You’re right, though, the expirings would be considered expired for those purposes.
by pagingstanleyroberts on May 11, 2010 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Sorta true is a fair assessment : /
It would have been more accurate had I said “Trades are forbidden until after a team’s season is over.”
We can indeed make trades with other teams whose seasons have ended, but it’s kind of an awkward in-between zone. Our expiring contracts don’t come off the books until free agency starts July 1st, and we don’t get the cap space from them until then, but we’re also not allowed to trade them.
I’m not sure why the NBA doesn’t have them expire right away. It would be nice if we had raw cap space to work with on draft day for the purposes of trades like this. As it is, for this trade Utah would have to pick the player for us, then wait a few weeks to trade him to us.
Also
much like the Darko trade last season showed how much a real center will help, it gives the Wolves a chance to see how the triangle looks with a legit shooter.
I wouldn't really classify AK-47 as a legit shooter.
He’s not a bad Offensive player by any means. He’s just not going to stretch Defenses. They should be able to acquire shooters in the draft though.
by Jose Cordoba on May 10, 2010 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Replace "shooter" with defender
Him and Brewer on the wings may be ugly offensively, but man, those two can cover some ground. The upgrade from Gomes in terms of defensive range is ridiculous.
by Rascal Flatts on May 10, 2010 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Sign me up
Depending on how the lottery plays out I’d do that trade in a minute. All the Wolves would have to send back to Utah is Ryan Gomes. They have roughly a $12.5 million difference in salary and the Wolves could absorb that.
If Boozer decides to jet regardless...
I’m personally ok with moving Al in this type of deal.
I’d want more value, but this basic move works:
Al + Gomes
for
AK + pick
3 things:
Like I said, I’d want more value (another future pick?)
I consider Gomes as an asset only in his expiring/waivable contract
I admittedly still really like AK, and am probably overvaluing he and the 9(ish) pick.
Curiously enough, the Trade Machine calls it a wash for us, without factoring in the pick, and a negative for Utah. Maybe that’s seeing some Boozer/Al redundancy? I don’t really know what all that calculates.
Dark Love is a-Brewin...
Why would Utah make that trade? The reason for them trading AK is to save money. Getting Jefferson back doesn’t save them much. I don’t see Jefferson and Sloan getting along real well either.
I think the broader picture needs to be looked at here
Tough to say whether Utah wants to retain Boozer, but I think they’re generally ok with the idea. Now if he wants to leave (a key stipulation of my thought), Jefferson’s 12M is basically the same thing as extending Boozer. The rest of the deal is dropping 16.5M of Kirilenko for 4M of Gomes, which is mostly waivable. I see this as a contingency plan only for Boozer leaving.
And call me crazy, but I think Al fits better than Boozer between Millsap and Okur. And nobody’s accused Carlos of being a top-notch defender recently.
Dark Love is a-Brewin...
Jefferson’s 12M is basically the same thing as extending Boozer.
I like the way you’re going with this, but Jefferson’s contract would be much more reasonable in my mind than a fully maxed Carlos Boozer for 5 years starting next season. Utah is the only team that is able to go 6 years and I bet Boozer’s agent would push hard for 6 years in negotiations with Utah. There is going to be a bunch of teams looking for players this summer and if Amare stays put, Boozer could get the max from both Chicago or Miami pretty easily as both need front court scoring. Al is a much Cheaper option than Boozer and if you think he comes back stronger next season after returning from injury this season, a much more reasonable option. Especially since Al’s years will be peak years and Boozer could have some bad years on the back end of such a contract when he’s 32 and 33 years old.
So I think you're agreeing with me....?
At least on the principle that this is still (actually, given the scenario you’ve laid out, quite a bit more of) a cost-saving manuever for Utah.
I’m guessing you might then be of the mind that we’re giving up too much in that deal. I can see that being a popular opinion. Depending on the other pieces, and other moves we make, that may still be my opinion too.
Dark Love is a-Brewin...
I'm unsure
I would think a deal like this would border on my floor for an Al Jefferson deal. I supported the Al for Prince + Pick deal which is very similar to the Utah deal except the pick is 2 slots higher, so I don’t know why going from #7 to #9 in my mind makes it a near dealbreaker, but I’m cautiously optmistic Al’s value is higher. If you shop Al around the league and this is your best option, I could live with it I suppose.
I guess it comes down to a few things for me
a) I couldn’t fault Glen for not wanting to take on $17M for Kirlenko and a pick. Personally, I’d like to see it get done from a fan perspective.
b) as Rumblebee points out, it would be a lot easier to do with our current expiring contracts assuming that is legit.
c) We’d have four picks in the first round. We need to use those to either get into the top four or get a third pick in the top 10. Would it be worth three picks for Wes Johnson? I’m not sure. Especially if we just picked up Kirilenko. Otherwise, as not high as I am on him, we’d absolutely HAVE to take Seraphin with the Utah pick.
d) Think we can resign AK after this year? He’d be a nice fit for any system that likes defense.
e) Think him and Darko get along?
On a side note, I like the potential of a [healthy] lineup next year of:
Sessions/Flynn
Turner/Ellington
Kirilenko/Brewer
Jefferson/Love/Kirilenko
Darko/Jefferson
And that’s without Pek and 3 picks being used! I’d really like to see Jefferson moved with Brewer and Pek and a pick or two for a nice 3/4 or 4/5 hybrid. Who that could be? No idea. Eventually we’re going to have to start consolidating our assets though and as much as I like Brewer, he just doesn’t really have a place on a team that doesn’t have a superstar (need a more balanced lineup if you don’t have a clear number 1, IMO). If no one is moved though, this lineup could certainly work AT LEAST until the trade deadline because Ellington or Flynn will undoubtedly get injured.
Would be great, especially if the Wolves could package assets to get back into the top 4.
I wouldn’t mind seeing what Kirilenko would do here either. But when push comes to shove, does Utah give up a lotto pick to shed the contract? Getting Deron Williams to restock talent helped a lot.
A couple of things
The point of the trade for Utah is that they’d be trading AK47 and the pick for cap space to resign Boozer without going over the luxury tax. We technically don’t obtain the cap space until after the draft on July 1. This would almost have to be a trade that is agreed upon, with Utah drafting the player and trading AK47 + the drafted player later. Since it is after July 1 that the deal would be consumated, it would be unlikely to include Gomes since he becomes guaranteed after June 30.
Thanks
I didn’t know about the date on Gomes’ deal. Gomes would have been perfect if Utah would want to do this at all. His salary makes up the difference between the Wolves’ cap space and AK’s contract, but then Utah could have waived him. If it would have worked, though, it would have eaten every dime of cap space, keeping them from signing Darko. (Unless they stuck Hollins in the deal, too.)
Couple things
since it’s an insider article, can anyone past or summarize the parts that are talking specifically about the Wolves?
Also, remember that Utah traded away Maynor and Brewer for pennies, so I doubt we would need to add extra value. And I don’t think I would do the deal if we had to. If anything we should be able to force Utah to take on Hollins’ contract.
It never talks about the Wolves
That’s why I never posted anything about them.
I don't think Utah bites.
Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s a great idea from a purely objective point of view, but you just don’t see teams that are trying to contend move guys that have been with the team for 9 years and still aren’t done as players. Add in the bad PR that is sending away a lottery pick, and it looks that much worse.
In terms of public opinion, Utah doesn’t look as bad if Boozer leaves. There, it looks like partially Boozer’s fault, and they still have a poor man’s Boozer in Paul Millsap. Plus, it’s not like they couldn’t re-sign Korver and use up some of their MLE if they no longer have $12 million going to Boozer.
It comes down to whether Utah values Boozer and a little savings more than Kirilenko and the pick and the better PR.
Few Thoughts
1. I agree with John Doe that this seems like a Hard Trade for Utah to make. I figured though since John Hollinger posted it and it makes sense on some level- I’d throw it out there.
2. My thought is if you get 9 and AK 47. Perhaps a second Big Al trade could be in the offering something like AL and Number 16 to Detroit for Number 7 and Tayshaun. Then possibly package 7 with 9 along with either Flynn or Sessions to make a Run into the Top 4.
Basically blow all your assets other than K.Love and Ricky to try to get 2 Top 4 picks. This is agressive. But if you’ve got a Core of Turner, Favors, Love, and Rubio. It doesn’t matter what the rest of the roster looks like at this time. You then spend the next few years trying to piece something together.
#2
I think you are missing the point that we will not have cap space to make your deal until July 1, and the draft is in the end of June. Any deal we made would need to be agreed in principle and completed after July 1. This would make combining picks to make a run into the top 4 nearly impossible.
milsap is better than boozer
boozer is going to chicago
by Twolves for ever and ever on May 10, 2010 11:03 PM CDT reply actions
Something else to consider...
If we want to use all of our cap space on a trade like this, we either have to re-sign Darko first or renounce his rights. If we want to bring Pekovic over and we renounce Darko’s rights, we’d be stuck having to use the MLE, roughly 6 million dollars, to sign both of them. Might not be enough if that is the plan.
Still a great trade idea though and exactly the type of creative move we need to make with our cap space.
It's worse than that.
We’d have to renounce all our cap exceptions and Bird Rights in order to use our cap space in a trade like this. That means no space left for Pekovic and no going over the cap to re-sign Darko.
Good call
I forgot that you essentially lose the MLE by being under the cap. Maybe this deal isn’t really possible.
by PhoenixWolf on May 13, 2010 11:20 PM CDT up reply actions
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