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Around SBN: Cowboys Draft 2012: The Big Board Version 3.0

Let's Settle This: Grade Kurt Rambis in his first year as the Wolves coach (with poll!)


There's only one more day until the lottery balls start bouncing, but there are still a couple of matters to address. You know the drill, and if you don't, just look up the many posts on the right side of the page. Today, we review Kurt Rambis and his job as the head coach of the Timberwolves.

Star-divide

The choice was met warmly by fans, but a dismal season may be have removed some of the sheen from the former Laker great pretty good. What grade does Rambis deserve, and can he top the "gentleman's C" earned by David Kahn? Let's hear it?

Poll
What grade would you give to Kurt Rambis after his first year as the Timberwolves head coach?
A
3 votes
B
14 votes
C
51 votes
D
66 votes
FAIL!
22 votes
Incomplete
26 votes

182 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 33 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Still incomplete

I gave them both incompletes. I am obviously not thrilled with either of their performances so far, but I think they still deserve some time. They both seem to acknowledge the weaknesses in their strategies (i.e. things we complain about they already know that it will have to change eventually), so there is a certain benefit of the doubt that they earn by saying that.

I’m hoping some stability will prove helpful as well. It sounds as if we will lose most of our assistant coaches sooner rather than later, so the headcoach would be a nice spot to lock up for a decent amount of time.

by Mplax on May 16, 2010 10:07 PM CDT reply actions  

The Dave Wannstedt of basketball

Remember the former Bears and Dolphins coach? Good pedigree. Lousy results. Permanent expression of “I don’t understand what’s going on, but the one thing I know is that it can’t be my fault.”

I gave him a gentleman’s C. Nobody improved over the course of the year. The fellas quit on him at the end. But geez, Kahn wouldn’t even let him have Quentin Richardson to make a shot.

by Neumms on May 16, 2010 11:19 PM CDT reply actions  

Wannstedt = C?

I doubt anyone in Chicago or Miami would be that generous to Wanny – Pitt fans maybe since they had a resurgence, but he just didn’t get the pro game for some reason.

I like the reference though.

Illinois: My governor is a bigger crook than your governor

by John H IL on May 17, 2010 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

This one is definitely an incomplete

He’s doing it with little talent and no one who’s played his system. He didn’t even get to pick his draft picks last year. This year was horrible but it says little about Rambis or his teams. The best thing I can say is he had his guys keeping the company line all the way through the season which says that they respect him and trust him. There was no mutiny when there certainly could have been. Al has been forced into 3 years of rebuilding ball. That’s gotta be tough. Once again, we’ll know more after next year.

by NYCVike on May 16, 2010 11:56 PM CDT reply actions  

D - Not impressed

I didn’t get to see any games live this year, so I have limited insight into how he is on the sideline, but I’m not impressed do far.

He may turn out to be good, given more talent to work with, but he doesn’t seem like head coach material. Also, I really, really don’t like the way AlJeff and Love have been handled. I think Love is far more valuable as a total player and the non-communication is very concerning. Nothing wrong with asking Love for more effort and pushing him, but when your best player is confused and feeling antipathy from the organization that is a bad sign.

by Django Z on May 17, 2010 1:29 AM CDT reply actions  

Straight up F

Maybe it was a vote out of anger, but I can’t imagine how he could have done much worse. I still have hope, but I’m not optimistic.

by John Doe on May 17, 2010 3:00 AM CDT reply actions  

D

This is the classic “can’t make a silk purse from a sow’s ear” scenario, however:

Criminal underuse of Ramon Sessions
Criminal overuse of Jonny Flynn

And very concerned about Love’s demeanour at the end.

"I was trying to focus on breathing," Milicic said. "I was just focusing on breathing so I didn’t die."

by Auswolf on May 17, 2010 3:18 AM CDT reply actions  

I’ve give a D for this year but it’s also incomplete. He’s got some more years to turn it around.

It has nothing to do with the system he put in place. I do think they idd don’t really run it all that often and it’s not a bad thing they’re learning it without having ALL the pieces in place.

The problem is the minutes for K-Love. I think he got way too little. I’m ok with him running with the 2nd string a lot … but that doesn’t mean he couldn’t play with 1st string as well for parts. Too many other guys got minutes (Oly, Cardinal and Jawai … though that got partly corrected in the 2nd part of the season Love’s minutes didn’t improve).

That and the fact that he didn’t get the team to play defense.

Official Kahn/Rambis band-wagon rider since 2009

by Wim (Belgium) on May 17, 2010 5:34 AM CDT reply actions  

D

Avoids F because his performance was so bad that it may provide evidence of some hidden motives that are genius but that I do not understand.

by littleboxes on May 17, 2010 7:12 AM CDT reply actions  

How does one write that next to the smiley face at the top of the paper?
Incomprehensible paper. Did you read Portrait of the Artist, or pick up Finnegan’s Wake by mistake?

(Watch your margins!)

"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR

by feral on May 17, 2010 7:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

Fail!!

If I gave David Kahn an F, you better believe Kurt Rambis gets an F as well. If you could give an F-, I would. Here are some of the main reasons I believe Kurt Rambis deserved an F…

1) Incredible stubbornness when it comes to line-ups. Barely playing Love with Jefferson and NOT playing Sessions with Flynn being the two prime examples. He wouldn’t even play Sessions with Flynn against teams like NO (who played Collison with Thornton).

2) We were supposed to be a “leader in player development”, but I’m hard pressed to say anyone improved under Rambis (I attribute Corey Brewer’s “development” to David Thorpe). You could argue that both Love and Flynn regressed as the season went along.

3) He gave Ryan Hollins minutes in non blowouts. Borderline fireable offense in my opinion.

by Blakeley on May 17, 2010 7:55 AM CDT reply actions  

Stubborness

Yeah, the obsession with maintaining protoype players at certain positions was stifling. He just could not seem to see any value in playing Flynn-Sessions-Brewer or Flynn-Sessions-Ellington at the 1-2-3 spots, even though opposing lineups went small and quick on us quite often. So instead we had Sasha Pavlovic shoved down our throats all season.

by Rascal Flatts on May 17, 2010 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

C

It’s hard to grade Rambis, without knowing all of the inside facts, like whether and when we were tanking. He had a roster without a single shooter in the starting lineup, which handicapped us quite a bit. He had a best player recovering from ACL surgery, and a prized draft selection playing in Barcelona. It wasn’t exactly a recipe for success. But, the 15-win season was atrocious, so he shouldn’t get any better than a C. I’m fine with people giving D’s or F’s. I just hope that the uptempo system and triangle schemes have a method to the madness that will shine through with sufficient talent, across the board.

by Andy G on May 17, 2010 8:09 AM CDT reply actions  

Everyone has their own opinion...

But my argument against the quote:

He had a roster without a single shooter in the starting lineup, which handicapped us quite a bit.

Was that he did that to himself. He had Wayne Ellington on the bench, he just chose to never start him.

by Blakeley on May 17, 2010 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, but...

Wayne didn’t really get rolling until mid-season. He looked tentative and his shooting percentage reflected that, for the first few months of the season. But, it’s a fair point. I would have liked to see Wayne starting next to Brewer for the last couple months. It may have led to an additional win or two.

by Andy G on May 17, 2010 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

I wish upon a star

that they were really tanking.

A Darko Fan since 2010!

by TheEvilProfessor on May 17, 2010 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

I've said this before...

But how crazy is it that the “optimists” among us believe Kurt Rambis was tanking. Talk about a back-handed compliment.

by Blakeley on May 17, 2010 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sidney!

Sid interviews Kevin McHale, who comments on

Flynn

“Yeah, kind of, I thought they’d do a little better,” McHale said. “Putting a lot of pressure on a guy like Johnny Flynn to come in and play. I thought that getting Ramon Sessions in would help take some of that pressure off of Johnny Flynn, but any time you’re putting the ball in a young guy’s hands, anything can happen.”

Love and Jefferson

McHale said he was surprised Al Jefferson and Kevin Love weren’t able to mesh a little bit better and pointed out they actually didn’t play that much together.

“It just seemed like that just wasn’t something that Kurt [Rambis] and the staff wanted to do,” he said.

Insults the team and talent
“Yeah, I’ve often said, with no talent at all if you just show up and play hard you can win 15 games in the NBA,” he said. “That’s like a minimum just by showing up and playing hard…. Unless you have major injuries and stuff like that, you should be able to do a little better than that. But it was a learning year for a lot of the guys, and hopefully next year they’ll be better.”

Lottery luck
They need a little luck. I’m doing the Tuesday night show down for TNT and the draft lottery show, and hopefully they get a little bit of luck and they can get a good, high pick and get the thing turned around.

by littleboxes on May 17, 2010 9:43 AM CDT reply actions  

Sid's intern who takes his dictations needs to be fired

I didn’t see Johnny Flynn play (thankfully) play one minute for the Wolves: http://www.johnny-flynn.com/

by Facial on May 17, 2010 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

"No talent at all"??

I had the 08-09 season tickets. Late that year, there was a stretch of games in which our big motivation to watch was seeing whether Bobby Brown would play five games at the point.

Bad as this year was, there was almost no time at all when I felt that way about seeing the team. In nearly every 5-man configuration the Wolves ran out there, there was young talent with some legitimate interest to it, for me. And yeah, you go young, you lose a lot. But “no talent at all” would be a much, much better description for the job McHale did in surrounding KG. When Trenton Hassell is your starting two guard and T-Hud’s your idea of a point, you have no talent.

"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR

by feral on May 17, 2010 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

re: Love

I’ll come out and say it – Love needs to learn to shut up and make his case on the court. He needs to listen to his coaches and not be a diva about every little thing. As long as KG is giving advice to players someone should send Love a montage of KG’s career highlighting how KG became the type of player he is by always playing hard, each and every minute no matter the score, no matter the record, and as his team’s undisputed best player.

Now, does this mean that Rambis sometimes should have given Love more minutes? Ya, he should have. But I don’t see any reason why I should cut Love some slack and vilify Rambis for a 20 or 21 year old’s immaturity and inability to go all out on the court ALL of the time, especially when his physical and athletic shortcomings demand it. Love is no where near the caliber player that any NBA coach should defer to.

For the record, I voted incomplete as I don’t think Rambis was trying to win this year. Agree with it or don’t, but I have no idea how good of a coach he is when I can’t tell when he was actually trying to win and when he was tinkering and putting guys in situations to see how they respond. It’s the same vote I gave Kahn as to me nothing he has done thus far has created a coherent product on the floor. I’m not going to penalize him for that unnecessarily either because (thus far) the moves are clearly a prelude to something else this summer. I think I’m with SnP in that Kahn has until the trading deadline next season. If nothing happens until then (same with Rambis), then we will have a large enough sample size to clue us into what we know. Until then, though, there’s simply too much in both that strongly suggests ulterior motives other than winning.

"Styx might be the mullet of bands."

by biggity2bit on May 17, 2010 10:10 AM CDT reply actions  

What do we mean by tanking?

One of the memes around here has been that the Wolves essentially tanked the season. I haven’t bought that theory at all, but it occurred to me that maybe we just have different definitions of tanking.

Seems to me that it’s a continuum. I tend to think of tanking as going out and not giving effort in trying to win. Or doing truly outlandish things like sending Mark Madsen out there to shoot a bunch of threes.

On the other hand, there are a bunch of other things that could fall under the rubric of “tanking”: playing players more than their play demands for development and evaluation purposes; playing in certain ways that might not suit your personnel in order to develop different skills.

I tend to not think of those things as tanking, because to me, tanking is inexcusable, has a really negative connotation, whereas doing things like playing young players isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

Anyway, I gave him a C. I think he kept the respect of his players and the organization, which is difficult in such a bad situation. So that’s a positive.

There were playing time negatives, in my opinion; Flynn played too much, Sessions not enough. I thought he force-fed Flynn, and it didn’t help. He should have played Love more; he’s their best player and needs to play. Especially when he instead sent Ryan Hollins out there every night.

The biggest negative is the lack of development I saw from Flynn and Love. Some of that is on the coaching staff. And if Love’s attitude became a problem, which it seems to me a lot of people are overblowing, well, that’s on him. But it’s also one of the coach’s jobs to mitigate that, and when you’re running Ryan Hollins out there and Kevin Love is on the bench, well, that’s what happens.

I’m frankly indifferent to the “system,” and I think we make too big a deal out of it. Either Rambis will eventually massage how he runs things to suit the personnel he winds up with, (which will bear no resemblance to the current crew, I hope), or he’ll be gone. I don’t really think it matters at this point; this team was going to lose no matter how they played. If he wanted to fool around with a triangle type system, it’s OK with me.

We Are the Washington Generals

by Eric in Madison on May 17, 2010 10:56 AM CDT reply actions  

Tanking

I think there was an organizational emphasis on losing a ton of games, this year, for the sake of the 2010 Draft. That meant, rather than a lineup of

Sessions
Q-Rich
Brewer
Love
Jefferson

with Gomes/Flynn/Ellington off the bench, we saw

Flynn
Wilkins
Brewer
Jefferson
Hollins/Darko/etc

The most obvious evidence of tanking occurred after 02/06/10, when we beat Memphis for our fourth consecutive victory. Included in that winning streak was a win at Dallas. Our record, at that point, was 13-38. Golden State’s was 14-37. You get the idea.

The Wolves closed out the season on a 2-29 stretch. Let’s just repeat that for some emphasis:

2-29.

The wins?

At Miami, on 02/23/10. Playing without D-Wade, as they were that night, Miami is the worst team in basketball.

Home versus Sacramento, on 03/31/10. At stake that night was the franchise record for consecutive losses. In other words, bad press. We managed to eek out a win versus the ROY and Donte Green.

I don’t know the exact methodology used, but it’s too much of a coincidence that when we started to catch Golden State, we closed out the year on a 2-29 stretch that only included wins when the opposition was non-existent, or a franchise record of futility was at stake.

by Andy G on May 17, 2010 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

You apparently have erased Ryan Gomes from your memory

I can’t say I blame you :)

I agree with the first half of your post more than the second. It’s certainly true that the off-season moves last year were not designed to win. Dumping Q-Rich is a good example.

I question whether the 2-29 stretch was anything other than a bad team playing somewhat worse than they actually are.

We Are the Washington Generals

by Eric in Madison on May 17, 2010 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

I gave him an A

He forced players to learn. The idea is to change the abilities of your players from within rather than expecting the roster to get better just from the outside. I liked the improvement of Brewer. I liked the benching of Love.

You don’t get better as a player if you don’t work on your weaknesses. From that stand point, I think Rambis was great. Also, if you don’t expect to win a lot of games, there isn’t any reason to overuse your best players. You already know what you’re gonna get with them. It’s the guys in the middle that need the most evaluating.

by PGNation on May 17, 2010 11:15 AM CDT reply actions  

Incomplete

If the team’s struggles were due to learning a system that will lead them to a higher potential, it will have paid off. In his defense, he and the players have talked about how they’re trying to get the players to improve their weaknesses and not just exploit their strengths, probably because they realize that none of them can thrive off of where they’re at now. The next two seasons will tell the tale more than this one. Not teaming Flynn/Sessions and Jefferson/Love was a strike against him, but who he plays will be more important when roster filler like Wilkins and Hollins aren’t required to play minutes. He gets points for getting his team to win close road games against good teams like Dallas and Utah.

by pagingstanleyroberts on May 17, 2010 11:54 AM CDT reply actions  

Grades are so very, very un-Zen.

"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR

by feral on May 17, 2010 12:47 PM CDT reply actions  

Losing makes Rambis feel:

-sad
Benching your most effective players makes Rambis feel:
-wise

by aarendsvark on May 17, 2010 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

The FAIL river.

Every time I dip my foot in as a Timberwolves fan, it’s new again.

"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR

by feral on May 17, 2010 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Incomplete

It’s pretty difficult to accurately grade a coach on their first year with a team that has little to nothing in place. New system, near complete roster overhaul, Love’s injury, questionable talent throughout, focusing on development/learning rather then winning.

If Rambis/Kahn came out and claimed that they tried to win every game, no matter what situation, and adjusted to each system with what they thought would most likely result in the victory… I’d give Rambis a D -. The rotations and lack of insight when to change approach just was terrible. However, I don’t believe this was case. Not even close.

Whatever was the main goals for the season, communicated behind doors, I think the game plan reflected this. Stay in the system at all times. Force the few players that will remain on the team to learn what the system can deliver. Do whatever seems most effective force the younger players, ones likely to stay, to learn, to stretch, to modify attitude/effort. Get an absolute read on what the players can and can’t do, in all situations possible, what can be improved upon. Get through the season, let Kahn and staff get to business putting an actual team together. Put the pieces and system together and try to win games in the ’10 – ’11 season.

Basically, ask me again in January 2011. If we don’t see a team that looks like a team, has obvious rotations, doesn’t compete for long periods of time… (basically if it looks like a repeat of this season)… Rambis has failed and should be shown the door.

by Krotz the Wall on May 17, 2010 1:41 PM CDT reply actions  

When you end with the worst record in team history

A complete and utter failure is the only grade possible. Rambo’s stubbornness in sticking with a lineup that didn’t work, along with a system that didn’t work, showed a lack of an ability to adjust. His players were confused, and he didn’t make any adjustments for that. When the Wolves won, sometimes they played amazingly well. Rambo admitted at the time he had no idea how to get them to play that way all the time. He abandoned the pick and roll, Flynn’s strength. He gave minutes to players that had no future with us, such as Sasha, and limited minutes for our best young player in Love. All in all a terrible job and a terrible season.

by Mano on May 24, 2010 10:08 AM CDT reply actions  

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