Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Tottenham May Have Found Their Goalkeeper Of The Future

Let's Settle This: Were the Wolves tanking, and was it a good idea? (with poll!)


Only one more day until the fate of the free world is decided Timberwolves find out where they will be slotted for the initial draft. So for our last LST, we'll ask if the Wolves were really as bad as they appeared, or just trying to accumulate lottery balls for tomorrow's drawing.

Star-divide

Do you think the Wolves were tanking last year, and, if so, do you think it was a good idea? Let's hear it!

Poll
Do you think the Wolves were tanking last year, and if so, was it the right thing to do?
No, they really were that bad
67 votes
Yes, they were tanking, and it was right to do it
49 votes
Yes, they were tanking, and it was wrong to do it
24 votes

140 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 31 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

I think the front office was tanking

As in, Kahn purposefully kept the talent level low this season so that we’d lose a lot. But I think Rambis and the players were really that bad.

by TimAllen on May 17, 2010 3:09 PM CDT reply actions  

wow

someone has to be pretty bad to suck at tanking. That my friend is a new pessimistic low and an impressive level of suck.

A Darko Fan since 2010!

by TheEvilProfessor on May 17, 2010 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think its that pessimistic

I think David Kahn was using the “Major League” guide to building a team, although with the end goal being Evan Turner instead of moving to Miami. Unfortunately for the Wolves, Jonny Flynn is no Willie “Mays” Hays, Brian Cardinal is no Tom Berenger and Kevin Love is only a little bit of a Wild Thing.

by TimAllen on May 17, 2010 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would put Rambis on that list as tanking

I’m sorry but if I have to look forward to his poor rotations next year I am going to cry. A majority of his player adjustments made no sense to me and I am not the best basketball mind.

by Timberwolf i.e. Albatross on May 17, 2010 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agree 100%

Kahn took a few swings, and some didn’t work out (i.e., Hollins), but it was really Rambis that seemed to do majority of the sabotaging here. Those rotations were inexplicable, and the minute he gave Love were inexcusable.

by Boss10 on May 17, 2010 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Inexplicably genius

at precisely limiting our ability to win at key moments very consistently throughout the season. It’s like that episode of Seinfeld where George gets hired by the Yankees by doing exactly the opposite of what he thinks he should do. If Rambis simply does the opposite next year we’ll be in the Finals (as the second best team in the league!).

"Styx might be the mullet of bands."

by biggity2bit on May 17, 2010 11:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Further backing my point

that Rambis was in on the tanking. We could have made a far more competitive team than what 09-10 was.

Well…maybe not far more but it would have been a more interesting season.

by Timberwolf i.e. Albatross on May 18, 2010 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Rambis and tanking

Kahn put a bunch of players who have not had much of an opportunity and none of the stuck except Darko. I think Kahn put together an interesting roster. I think he told Rambis to try and figure out what was on this roster worth keeping and not to win too much. The amount of playing time that Love got was pathetic and the rotations were awful. That being said, this team was not good, so do not expect a great team when they start trying again next year.

by Coin on May 17, 2010 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

I voted Tanking

But as EiM stated in another thread, it wasn’t Mark “Maddog” “I wanna be a chucker” Madsen tanking. It is more like the lets come to the game to try some random crap out while the other team is sticking to what they know works tanking. Otherwise called not trying to win. Which is much better than trying to lose (cough..cough…Maddog).

A Darko Fan since 2010!

by TheEvilProfessor on May 17, 2010 3:11 PM CDT reply actions  

That's what I voted

and what I had in mind when I voted that way.

"Styx might be the mullet of bands."

by biggity2bit on May 17, 2010 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'll copy what I put in the last LST thread...

I think there was an organizational emphasis on losing a ton of games, this year, for the sake of the 2010 Draft. That meant, rather than a lineup of

Sessions
Q-Rich
Brewer
Love
Jefferson

with Gomes/Flynn/Ellington off the bench, we saw

Flynn
Wilkins
Brewer
Jefferson
Hollins/Darko/etc

The most obvious evidence of tanking occurred after 02/06/10, when we beat Memphis for our fourth consecutive victory. Included in that winning streak was a win at Dallas. Our record, at that point, was 13-38. Golden State’s was 14-37. You get the idea.

The Wolves closed out the season on a 2-29 stretch. Let’s just repeat that for some emphasis:

2-29.

The wins?

At Miami, on 02/23/10. Playing without D-Wade, as they were that night, Miami is the worst team in basketball.

Home versus Sacramento, on 03/31/10. At stake that night was the franchise record for consecutive losses. In other words, bad press. We managed to eek out a win versus the ROY and Donte Green.

I don’t know the exact methodology used, but it’s too much of a coincidence that when we started to catch Golden State, we closed out the year on a 2-29 stretch that only included wins when the opposition was non-existent, or a franchise record of futility was at stake.

by Andy G on May 17, 2010 3:20 PM CDT reply actions  

I think you are on to something.

the only reason I havn’t voted yet is because my option isn’t available. Tanking, but only worth it if we don’t slide down in the draft.

those rotations always seemed to cause us to blow leads late in games, so that we could not come back. but with better rotations there is no dought we could have won meny more games. by no means were we a playoff calibur team, but we were much better then our record. intentionaly bad rotations cost us several games.

Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?

by the Real Thor on May 18, 2010 7:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

I voted no tanking

though of course the definition of tanking is not entirely clear, as we were discussing earlier.

My feeling is that while the team was clearly not put together to maximize wins, I believe the team went out and tried to win every game. And while some of the playing time wasn’t maximally distributed for winning, I still wouldn’t define what they did as tanking.

We Are the Washington Generals

by Eric in Madison on May 17, 2010 3:26 PM CDT reply actions  

That's basically what I was trying to say

except I don’t have the same need as EiM to make sense in my comments.

by TimAllen on May 17, 2010 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Actually, you

just don’t have the same need to be as verbose as me. Your explanation was perfectly brief and to the point.

Use more words next time, will ya?

We Are the Washington Generals

by Eric in Madison on May 17, 2010 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

They were "putting player development above immediate winning"

Unfortunately, the roster was bereft of wing talent worth developing. The exception in terms of talent, Corey Brewer, proved the rule, as he spent the year with an almost unconscionable green light.

"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR

by feral on May 17, 2010 3:40 PM CDT reply actions  

who was developed?

I feel like tanking was a higher priority than anything. Way too much time was spent with Flynn and many of the experiences he had would work to diminish his confidence rather than increase it. Love was developed into confusion and played better at the beginning of the year than at the middle and end, and finally Hollins was developed from nothing into nothing. I wouldn’t mind tanking so much if it didn’t ruin the assets we have. At this point, we have a top two pick or nothing. Or to say it another way, we have a 60% chance that alienating fans, current players and future free agents will result in drafting a player that plays the same position as our two best players.

by midlife crisis on May 17, 2010 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe

but Lionel Hollins essentially went on record as saying that a lot of young guys need 30+ minutes a night in order to develop into the players they’ll eventually be (guys like Chauncey). In his opinion that’s the right thing to do if you’re going to win 20 or fewer games. If you’re competing for the playoffs, though, you end up sending guys like Thabeet to the D-League in order to get them minutes. And even a guy like OJ Mayo is going to play in the summer league because L. Hollins wants him to have 40 minutes a night as a PG in order to learn that he’s (Mayo) not cut out for that. I think on many levels this past year will be instrumental for Flynn because of the sheer wealth and diversity of experience he accumulated. And let’s face it – we weren’t a very good squad and Ramon was not playing like Deron out there either.

"Styx might be the mullet of bands."

by biggity2bit on May 17, 2010 11:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

what if

we started Sessions a d-league veteran I might add and put Flynn and Ellington in the D-league for significant time like a 3 months would we win anymore games? Would we come out ahead? behind?
I do know the D-league works but this team wasn’t that good to begin with

by KahningPups on May 18, 2010 8:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree, this season was focused on player development.

and I voted that we were tanking, and right to do it.

It’s not just about getting a better draft position, it really is about developing Flynn, Brewer and Hollins. And in the latter case, proving that we need spend no more time developing Hollins.

by timmuggs on May 17, 2010 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Couldn't really vote

as I agree with the general sentiment that has been discussed here that it was more so not trying to win than it was trying to lose. I think Rambis and Kahn decided that they would rather learn how to win 2 extra games next year and the year after that than to try to win 2 more games this year. There’s a bigger difference between 50 and 52 than there is between 15 and 17… don’t know if it will work out for them at all, but I think that was their aim.

So I guess my vote is somewhere in between two of the answers?

by Mplax on May 17, 2010 4:13 PM CDT reply actions  

Yes they were tanking

Was it right to do it, we’ll know tomorrow night!

by Rumblebee on May 17, 2010 4:35 PM CDT reply actions  

I think the Wolves had a few objectives

1) Player development. Not just in the abstract, but within the context of Kurt’s system. In this regard, I think only Brewer showed obvious development. There may have been others, but it was not clear to me. Maybe Ellington.

2) Establishing Kurt’s system and style of play. They were successful in pushing the pace and learning parts of the triangle. If there is significant roster turnover, and a few assistants end up elsewhere (Theus/Bill), then one could question how worthwhile this was.

3) Playing guys to improve or retain their future trade value. Show Al was healthy, Flynn was a starting caliber PG, Brewer was not NBDL material, etc. This was probably mildly successful.

4) Avoid playing short-term vets to get a few draft-pick-damaging wins. Mission accomplished here.

"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra

by Wile E Coyote on May 17, 2010 5:56 PM CDT reply actions  

tough call.

With about 30 games left they were about minus 7.3 and getting better. Everyone was healthy and sure the competition got a liitle stiffer but statistically I thought they should have just leveled off there. I think it devalues our players a little bit trades. That’s why I wonder if we’ll have many trades. Just maybe drop the worst players that we can and add rookies and free agents. Overall I’m sort of with the Nice Prof. on this one.

by mr.sorbet on May 17, 2010 7:59 PM CDT reply actions  

We're about to find out, aren't we?

If we get a top two pick, it was maybe a good idea. Otherwise, it was a bad idea.

I think tanking a whole year is probably bad for developing our young, players, though. Love and Brewer and Flynn, after being winners their whole lives, are now getting used to losing miserably and being generally uncompetitive. They may not even know what it feels like to contribute to winning since there’s so little winning around here to contribute to.

I hope I’m wrong and everyone comes back much improved after a summer to reflect on this disaster of a season.

by princelyfrank on May 17, 2010 8:26 PM CDT reply actions  

If Brewer and Love are winners

they will be part of the solution. Being on a winning team doesn’t necessarily make you a winner.

"Styx might be the mullet of bands."

by biggity2bit on May 17, 2010 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Canis Hoopus is straight T-Wolves straight from Minnesota.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
Quarterly WP48 report for the 2011-12 Wolves (through 33 games)
163876_10150119418461233_643586232_7880033_197998_n_small
Timberwolves vs Denver Nuggets Card 2/20/12
Pr8or_small
Scrappy Report Card of .500 Again! – MIN vs PHI
Small
Deus PEK Machina: Wolves/Rockets Report Card
Dollar_sign_small
The Real Cost of Pau Gasol

Recent FanPosts

Dog-drinks-from-toilet_thumb_small
Stream of Consciousness Jazz Report Card 2/22/12
Timberwolf_small
Unofficial Jazz Game Thread
Dscn1266_small
If the Lakers are actually interested in Michael Beasley
Small
Wilson Chandler?
Images_small
3PT Shooting Problems: Exception or Rule? (With Poll)
127_small
Lakers, **** off, we're keeping Beasely
Img_0877_small
Shawn Marion?
Small
PEKSECUTION!
Small
2/22 Utah +4 at Minnesota

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Canis Hoopus Twitter

    follow me on Twitter

    Hoopus Features

    HOOPUS FAQ

    Salary Cap Info

    Draft Info

    Player Movement Flow Charts

    Draft Boards

    Former Tag Lines:

    • In desperate need of an epic dose of basketball Viagra
    • Your source of radical left wing politics cleverly disguised as basketball fandom
    • Palin-Free since before statehood
    • Despairy Home Companion
    • The world's leading exporter of small area quickness
    • Sorry…I have no idea who is Joe Mauer
    • Home of the Peja deep douche
    • Vote McGrady!
    • Bork, bork, bork, bork, bork
    • Wir Sind Darko
    • Weird, unhealthy Darko mania
    • les goûts et les couleurs ne se discutent pas
    • Basketball success makes character issues forgivable
    • Building the Boogie Bandwagon
    • Building the Dream....One Power Forward At A Time
    • Kids, Puppy Dogs, And Long Walks In The Park
    • SWITCH THE FLIP!!!
    • Team Red Pill.
    • December is Bunny Month. Survive it with insincerity and Merle Haggard.
    • Like having a really good seat at a beheading.
    • We've got to have rules and obey them. After all, we're not savages. We're Wolves fans, and Wolves fans are best at everything.
    • Getting Real Mythological
    • Trapped in Punxsawawney
    • BIIYYYOOOMMMBOOOOOOO!!!
    • Estoy llevando mi talento a Minnesota
    • Where sharks do battle with giant eagles
    • You don’t put a saddle and reins on a magical unicorn, you bareback it and put faith in nature
    • Toeing the line between nerd and loser

    Hoopus Recipe Book

    Let's Settle This:


    Self-Promotion

    BallHype Sports Blog Rankings


    Managers

    Dr wyn

    Journey_small Stop-n-Pop

    Rviy7fbgmhz5ht2dpgo6q0jfu_small TimAllen

    Editors

    Wolveslogo_small Oceanary

    Authors

    Small SG

    Hrbek_small Jon Marthaler