Lotto Recap: It's not that awful
(Thanks to uncle rico for the video suggestion.)
After 20 years of existence the Wolves have 1 Western Conference Finals appearance, a single hall of famer, and no top two picks. The Wizards have the number one pick and a cuckoo clock, Gilbert Arenas.
After taking the obligatory 20-30 minutes of fretting, I had to remind myself of a few things:
- There are 4 solid players in this year's draft.
- The Wolves picked in the 1 spot where they had the best chance of ending up.
- Barring a reach/disaster, they will get a player that will immediately help them.
- "I know that the first reaction is one of despair and disconsolation. It's just not that kind of night for me. I have no idea how the draft will play out with the top 4 picks. I assume that Wall is number one...but I don't know how [the rest of the top 4] will play out."
- "We have enough maneuverability to move around in the draft....[the lotto wasn't] the type of event that will disturb the plans of this team greatly."
- He doesn't think that 1-2-3 is Wall, Turner, and Cousins "in my mind" and he mentioned that his top 4 would look different. He didn't take the bait on answering if Favors was on this list but he did mention that he thinks the Wolves will get a good pick if the status quo remains in place.
- He mentioned that there is still plenty of time between now and the draft for another player (or two) to insert themselves into the top 4.
- You can bet that one of Kahn's first calls will be to Philly.
- The prospects of a Wes Johnson/Corey Brewer wing are horrifying. I think my daughter's team has better ball handlers.
- Evan Turner has already apologized to Wolves fans.
- The Wolves really need to do their homework on DeMarcus Cousins. My gut feeling right now is that they take him with the 4th pick and then move him for an established wing player. Call #2 for Kahn should be to Portland.
- Kahn mentioned several times throughout the day (most notably on KFAN with PA) that this draft is deep in wing talent. I don't see it; maybe in the mid-round, but not up top.
- If the status quo remains in place, the Wolves walk away with either Favors, Turner, or Cousins. That's not a bad thing.
- I don't want to be sitting here next year crossing my fingers for Harrison Barnes to be the team's Basketball Jesus.
- I'm not sure it was possible, but the lotto results made sure that Kahn is even more tied to Ricky Rubio than ever before.
- There still is a possibility that Evan Turner falls to the 4th pick. Cousins and Favors could grade out well in the workout process and Aminu could move up.
- The Wolves made some money when their pay-the-pick promo netted them $4/ticket. They also made some money under the cap with a lower pick. These two probably aren't positives however.
- ESPN's trade machine is going to get a workout from Philly and Minny fans.
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Cousins
Assuming that Cousins ends up at 4, does anyone think there is a chance that we just keep him, and trade one or more of our bigs? I am not sure how I would feel about that, but his upside is very high. Or having been burned by J.R. Rider, is that outside the realm of possibility for this fan base?
I could live with that
frankly, I’d rather keep Cousins and trade Jefferson than the other way around, though of course it depends on what kind of offers are available for either of them.
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on May 18, 2010 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed on Cousins...
How bout we bring back the Memphis/GS trade…
Min Acquires:
OJ Mayo
K. Azubuike
A Biedrins
GS Acquires:
A Jefferson
H. Thabeet
Pick #16
Mem Acquires
M. Ellis
J. Flynn
Updated Depth Chart
PG: Sessions/\(Rubio)
SG: OJ Mayo/ Brewer
SF: Azubuike/Brewer
PF: Love/Pekovic
C: Cousins/Beidrins
Not idea but I’d take it over what we currently have.
Rubio's deal doesn't end until 2011 if I'm correct
Is Pekovic better than Biedrins?
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"Keep your head up and don't let anything get to you." - Dante Bichette Jr.
#3 + #6 + #15 + #1 = QPU (Quantum Physics University) #25, and no, it's not because of Anthony Carter
Right...
1. Rubio’s deal doesn’t end till 2011, but us Wolves fans tend to concede the 2010/2011 season
2. Not sure if Pek is better then Biedrins, but it could be close. I’d be pretty happy with Biedrins type production out of Pek.
I think this sounds like a terrible idea.
Sessions starting at PG? Who would back him up? Way to quick to give up on Flynn in my opinion. You really don’t know what you have until after 2-3 years with a player. Mayo is good, definitely a scorer which we could use. But, then Azubuike/Brewer at the 3? Azubuike hasn’t done anything in the NBA? Cousins at Center is no better than what we have now in Big Al at Center. Big Al is more established in the NBA, works hard, and is a much more proficient scorer. Cousins is an undersized Center who may not find it easy to score buckets in the bigs. Seriously, I can appreciate any ideas that are thrown out and this may just be my opinion, but that lineup idea that you tossed out makes me want to gag.
Kelenna Azubuike, if he's healthy,
would be a solid FA pickup at a modest cost.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
Not an FA
I believe he’s exercising his player option to stay in GS.
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on May 19, 2010 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, I know,
Meant to be more a general “type of guy” post, badly phrased. He’d have been a fool not to re-up after the injury.
But again, if you can see that he’s good to go, he’d be a nice little target one way or another.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
This is the simplest suggestion.
The joseki, in Go – the standard move, or path of least resistance, based on the board today.
We shouldn’t be asking if there’s a chance of it, we should be asking about how it works to follow that opening book. Clearly you deal Jefferson for a wing, right? We already know that list of options to some extent. Your FA money likely goes toward the other wing spot…. And so on.
In order to pass on Cousins, you’d need to be extremely thorough in figuring out that his temperament is completely out of control. (I think it’s somewhat more likely that New Jersey decides he can play the 4 and chooses him at #3.)
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
What if coach cal takes the bulls job
A Noah, deng and picks for cousins and fillers?
by Bad News Wolves on May 18, 2010 10:10 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
It would probably happen if Calipari likes Cousins
and goes to Chicago with LeBron. This is an interesting take that you should keep in the back of your mind if Chicago gets their guys.
Yes, run that by the Bulls board
and see what they say. Two proven starters (and picks) for one potential head case. I’ll take it, but I doubt the Bulls will. Besides, I"m guessing that Deng is the perfect sign-and-trade consolation prize for Chicago to swap for LBJ.
Only one person would allow this trade to happen
and that is Calipari. If somehow he and LeBron get to the Bulls, this will be Calipari’s decision. If he knows Cousins is a head case, it never happens. If he thinks Cousins is the next Ewing, Howard, etc…he does the deal in a heart beat.
IF,If,if, Cousins is that good in Calipari’s eyes, he sees a starting lineup of Rose, James, and Cousins. They can use filler around those guys and compete for a title, plus getting rid of Deng frees up cap space for the SG they need.
That would be one scary roster
but the question remains, how good of a coach is Calipari?
"Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have." Steven Wright
Honestly
with Derrick Rose, LeBron, Cousins, and whoever they get to fill in the other spots, does it matter how good a coach he is….kind of like Barry Switzer winning a Super Bowl.
I recall Bud Grant made some comment that I'm too lazy to look up now
about coaches not really winning contests but players doing it. But it’s more Bud being modest Bud than an unqualified, categorical statement about what it takes to win. Maybe coaches don’t guarantee wins or championships, but they sure can do a great deal to lose them.
Didn’t Memphis all but have a title close at hand one year? Should part of the blame fall on him, or just his players? It has to work both ways.
People have also remarked that Phil Jackson has always had either MJ or Kobe, so he’s not that great of a coach. But I’m not at all convinced you could even plug in a well respected coach and still win that many rings.
"Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have." Steven Wright
You are right about Bud Grant
I think the fact he became a .500 coach in the 80’s after the Purple People Eaters faded was enough to convince him that coaches need talent. That said, coaches certainly do matter, but I think it’s more a case that a bad coach will screw up a good team. Obviously just seeing what Jerry Sloan has done is proof that coaching matters.
If Calipari is a bad coach, they may not win a titlle, but their talent will probably get them to several conference finals and one or two NBA finals.
I look at Phil Jackson as similar to Tom Kelly, he isn’t going to put lipstick on a pig, but give him a great team and he won’t screw it up.
Sloan is a good example
the Jazz have done much to maximize the talent assembled on their roster and have done it consistently over the years. That falls on the coach and the system to provide continuity between roster changes. Actually, I think Flip was pretty good at getting the most out of his rosters for a few years too.
As to tonight’s lottery determination, I think what matters as much as who the Wolves will take will be how the team works together as a whole in the system being run by the coaching staff. Apologies in advance for spouting platitudes and the obvious. But unless there is one of those “comes along every x year” type of players (Durant, LeBron, Kobe, etc) who can really change the game, then what matters more for now is getting the pieces in place. Would even Turner or Wall lead this team to the promised land? Not without adding other very good players into the mix. So this is all a work in progress, though having a higher draft choice would obviously put the team in a better position strategically to make trades or get who they want.
"Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have." Steven Wright
by uncle rico on May 19, 2010 12:19 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I rec'd this comment
because you are the first person tonight I have seen say that getting Wall or Turner may not have led the team to the promised land, but a higher pick would have put them in a better strategic position. That is exactly what was lost, and all that was lost. It is not the end of the world. If they want Turner they can get him, it will be expensive, but they can afford the move.
On a side note, I am happy for Flip Saunders. I know he thought he was going to a 50 win team, and last year had to be hell for him. This is a nice reward for him, although as a Gopher season ticket holder wondering if that program is falling apart, I am a little bummed that Flip may not be available to replace Tubby when he leaves in a year or two.
Flip coaching Wall would be good
for the Whizzes, bad for the U of course. He’d be a great college coach, I think. Who knows, when Tubby leaves, maybe he’ll be tired of the pros and come back.
"Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have." Steven Wright
Too true
(I’m back from my nap).
This team is about four players and two stars from being a contender. The only position that has a slightly-above-average player starting is PF, and both of the candidates at that position have strengths and weaknesses that cancel each other out. Every other player is a potential candidate for the Sixth or Twelfth Man of the Year.
So, yes, I’m pissed. But to say that the difference between a championship and eternal destitution is two fricking slots in a decent draft is idiotic.
I'm not sure if that comment
was brilliant insight, or just a simple sleep deprived rant, either way, you are 100% correct in your last paragraph. You should now go to bed as you cannot improve on this point tonight!
He is the smartest man ever, RB!
"Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have." Steven Wright
Don't forget
Taj Gibson, Kirk Hinrich, and James Johnson plus their pick this year.
In All Fairness
No Way-Cleveland trades Lebron James for Luol Deng in a S/T.
by Jose Cordoba on May 19, 2010 12:05 AM CDT up reply actions
I think it was
Deng and Noah for Cousins, I added LeBron because the only way Calipari coaches the Bulls is if he goes there with LeBron as a free agent.
Maybe as part of a massive 3-team deal involving LBJ,
The Cavaliers could wind up with Verejao and Noah on the same roster. I would love to see that. Truly, it would make me smile in wonder.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
I don't think Noah for #4 is necessarily far-fetched
Not sure whether the Bulls would do it, but as far as a talent and fit swap, it’s possible.
by pagingstanleyroberts on May 19, 2010 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions
I mentioned this in another thread...
But there’s already talk of Houston and Portland trying to move. I think I’m safe in assuming that they’re looking to acquire Cousins.
I think it’s important from a leverage standpoint that Kahn doesn’t act too hot on Turner and the #2 pick. The ability to pick Cousins at #4 will be an asset and not a burden in many team’s eyes. Lets get as much out of that asset as we possibly can. And if we’re able to trade less then Kevin Love to move up to #2 then Whoopdie Doo!
Here's my video recap
(OK, I actually like this song. Don’t laugh.)
by Rasho Revolution on May 18, 2010 10:15 PM CDT reply actions
I know people don’t want to hear this but I think there is a real chance the Wolves either trade down or take Wes Johnson. Those are two real possibilities. From the sounds of it Kahn is not overly thrilled with the thought of drafting Cousins.
Fans need to remember there is a difference between what the Wolves should do and what they will do. Kahn did say on KFAN today that he really like Wes Johnson’s game.
by jama on May 18, 2010 10:19 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Well...
Wes is an athletic swingman who can shoot the three pretty well. His ballhandling really needs work, and his potential isn’t that high because of his age, but he could fit in with Brewer.
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"Keep your head up and don't let anything get to you." - Dante Bichette Jr.
#3 + #6 + #15 + #1 = QPU (Quantum Physics University) #25, and no, it's not because of Anthony Carter
If you're choosing for fit with Corey Brewer, you're making a big mistake.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
Please be realistic.
It’s obvious the Nets are taking Favors over Cousins. It’s also very unlikely that Philly is making a trade with the Wolves since the Wolves have nothing they would want. So going forward please remember that when you make suggestions about the future.
by jama on May 18, 2010 10:22 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
No
People get way to wrapped up in Cap Space in my opinion. Other than Brand’s contract Philly doesn’t have any horrendous long term deals. Iggy’s deal isn’t great but it isn’t nearly as bad as people think it is. People that think Philly is going to basically trade Turner and Brand for Jefferson and Cousins are crazy. Why would Philly want both Cousins and Jefferson? It sure doesn’t seem like Wolves fans want both of those players.
I don't find either of those things obvious.
Nor would I be devastated if they didn’t come to pass.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
What about a three-way trade that would bring Turner to the Wolves, Cousins to Portland or Houston, and ______ to Philly? I’ll let the experts here fill in the blank. Is there anything that can fill in the blank that all three teams would be able to swallow? Bringing in Portland or Houston would expand the universe of assets that would be available to get us up to the second pick (i.e. Turner). We may be willing to overpay for Turner, but if Portland or Houston are willing to overpay for Cousins, we may not have to overpay as much to get what we want, which is clearly Turner—if that makes any sense.
The Sixers are well over the cap, they need cheap, young talent.
by AnotherDraftPickBitesTheDust on May 18, 2010 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Or have someone take on Brand’s contract.
by AnotherDraftPickBitesTheDust on May 18, 2010 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions
So the next question is whether either Portland or Houston could offer cheap, young talent, or take on Brand’s contract?
Maybe Minnesota and either Portland or Houston could jointly acquire Brand and split his contract? He could split the year between the teams every other game, or maybe every other month, or a first half/second half split? We might have to get a ruling from Stern, but I’d be for it.
Both Portland and Houston are very smart teams
And not having Turner isn’t the end of the world, but that trade up there could be possible.
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"Keep your head up and don't let anything get to you." - Dante Bichette Jr.
#3 + #6 + #15 + #1 = QPU (Quantum Physics University) #25, and no, it's not because of Anthony Carter
That's pretty much the lever that would move Philly's pick.
Nobody’s going to be thrilled to push that stone up that hill for another three seasons, though, Wolves included.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
Cousins
I hope we scout this guy really well and find out he’s more Percy Harvin than Demetrius Underwood. The honest truth is that from a talent perspective Cousins could go number one overall. Now I’m obviously not saying he will, but if we are all in on Rubio then Cousins or Favors actually isn’t that bad. Cousins truly is a building block guy, so if he’s the pick I hope we are not too hasty in moving him.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
by biggity2bit on May 18, 2010 10:43 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
I agree
I’m actually not at all upset about the prospect of taking Cousins. Quite the contrary. I’m perfectly ok with any of those four guys. I just don’t want to deal with all of the trades for less than fair value that we will undoubtedly have to participate in for Love/Jefferson/Pekovic and no more Darko (which while he might not be that great, he was still a solid use of cap space… on to Childress I guess!).
Speaking of Childress, think we could sign and trade him to Philly with some other assets and the 4 for number 2? He’s a vet!
Good point
wonder if there is a difference for foreign guys… but we could always put the deal in place in theory and just get it done when FA starts.
July 1.
(Also, you can only sign-and-trade your own free agent, not Atlanta’s. But whatev’.)
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
Turner or Johnson
One of them will be a Timberwolf. Turner would cost us, obviously. That’s what hurts about the lottery results.
Give up the right to Rubio
I am not interested in a punk primadona. Move up with him or another pick to get Turner.
Personally I am sick of this frickin lottery where the worst team in the NBA (us) never gets a shot a a true power player that the franchice can build around. This lottery is a joke. At least just have the worst 5 teams. No one who should be picking #14 belongs in a lottery.
This is why I have gotten sick of watching the NBA. The big markets get fatter. the rest of us are obstacles and schedule fillers for the TV market favorites.
by CitrusFLViking on May 18, 2010 11:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Thought about the top 5 thing as well, there’s too many people in the lottery. Only the 5 worst teams should be in there.
Official Kahn/Rambis band-wagon rider since 2009
by Wim (Belgium) on May 19, 2010 3:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Uh, yeah,
those big markets like D.C. and Philadelphia run the show…. Not to mention New Jersey, which is such a huge market that its team is leaving for Brooklyn in two seasons….
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
Random free agency thought
This pretty much guarantees the Wolves go after Josh Childress or Rudy Gay, yeah?
Childress, I hope
Rudy Gay will get a max contract and flame out with the Clippers or Knicks. Childress would be ideal. We could overpay enough for him to want to come here without killing our cap forever. Only trouble is if Atlanta wants him to replace Joe Johnson, but they’re often frugal and there might be animosity between the two sides.
Rudy Gay's going to be signed with Washington's cap money.
He’s from Baltimore, the top tier of free agents won’t go there so they’ll move on him while others with cap room wait on LeBron, &c &c. They’ll have Wall and Rudy as their anchors for a bit.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
Unless the NBA allows two balls on the court at the same time
I can’t imagine the Wiz having Wall, Arenas, and Gay.
they've telegraphed the..
…rudy gay bit too.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
I still think they’re getting Turner somehow. He’s just too perfect a fit for the Wolves, and much more questionable with Philly and New Jersey (both of whom need help at the 4 more than at wing). If the Wolves had to pick 4th, this isn’t the worst set-up above them if their target is Turner. I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibilities that Turner slides to 4, although I don’t think the Wolves can afford to wait and see, either, particularly if they don’t want to touch Cousins. We need to hope Favors puts on a show in workouts (probably) and Cousins can alleviate character concerns.
(Also, maybe we should root for the Lakers to win the championship, to make size the hot commodity this offseason?)
I think Philly will go with Favors. He’s athletic enough to run, which goes well with the Sixers’ game.
Nets are a bit stuck, as Cousins is somewhat similar to Lopez, and they have some decent young players on the wings (as well as trying to lure Lebron). Do the Wolves cash in their Euro chips of Rubio/Pek to see if that gets that #3? Then move the #4 for something helpful?
I agree with you
Looking at Philly’s postiional stats, SG was their best position with PF and C having the worst differential. Dalembert is gone after next season, and they don’t have any depth beyond Brand, Dalembert and Speights. In the last 30 years, never have 2 guards gone #1 and #2. NEVER. Let that sink in for a while.
Favors is going to jump out of the Gym and Cousins is going to measure huge. I’m not saying that Turner is going to be available at #4, but I could easily see Philly taking Cousins or Favors. Every year bigs climb and guards fall.
by Ebomb on May 18, 2010 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Had to rec this
I have seen several folks say that Philly will take Turner because he fills their biggest need, it didn’t make sense to me and you show that fact. You are also right about bigs climbing the board, they are overvalued because reality is there are more 6’6" guys in the world than 6’10" guys.
I know they are blaming their coach for some of their woes last season, but I can’t believe the 76er’s have any interest in keeping Dalembert around any longer than they have to, which makes Cousins a perfect fit if they like him.
What's
Thad Young?
Check, he’s a 4/3 dude. Iggy’s a 2/3.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
by biggity2bit on May 19, 2010 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Let’s be careful about having tunnel vision for Turner. He was an attractive candidate because he was a great fit and perhaps easily attainable—before the lottery results. Now that he is not quite as attainable, his value for us is substantially less once you factor in the cost of attaining him. Everyone wanted Turner because he is a solid wing and we really need a solid wing. I think that Kahn should and will now turn to exploring options for other solid wings.
It is easy to be upset that we didn’t get at least the number 2 pick and try to “fix” the lottery by buying the number 2 pick. But to do that, we will have to overpay, and we may not want to do that. We need to accept that we have the number 4 pick and make our judgment based upon the world as it exists, not how we wanted it to exist.
I would still like to explore a way to get Turner too, but I am expressing caution because it is easy to make a bad decision because we are psychologically locked into Turner.
by mnlawyer on May 18, 2010 10:59 PM CDT reply actions 4 recs
+2 wisdom modifier
I wanted Turner, but I’d rather have the Wolves be a good team. The way to become a good team is not by having a firesale to get a guy who’s no more guaranteed of being successful than Cousins.
by aarendsvark on May 18, 2010 11:36 PM CDT up reply actions
True
but then again, NBA teams are built around players that make their teams go, and Turner is (in my opinion) that valuable to us because he is the exact type player that would make our team/system go. We already have a Cousins in Big Al, and we’ve seen how that goes. Is Wes Johnson that guy? No. I understand the sentiment, but we can’t ignore the context either. To me that’s what elevates Turner to being more valuable to us than anyone else.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
by biggity2bit on May 19, 2010 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions
You are not wrong in your assertion
but the Wolves have 2 PGs on their roster, plus their best PG is in Europe. They also have two starting PFs and a decent center. They need a SG, and Turner is the best of the lot. I’ve never said he will be an All-Star, but I think he will be above average, which is exactly what this team needs. Turner isn’t the guy you build a team around, but he is a big piece on a contender. Let’s get that spot filled this year and use other assets to get the star.
What Center?
Darko isn’t a lock yet. I think we need to be careful undervaluing Cousins when we may not have a legit center on our team to start next year. Stiemsma probably won’t make it past the summer league team. I know the gaping hole at 2-3 is still really raw in our mind, so we’re all focusing on fixing that, but if Darko doesn’t come back, I don’t want to overpay to get turner and just move the hole at 2-3 to a hole at 3 & 5. If we dont’ get Darko, what realistic options do we have for a 5 (other than getting a “raw” C later in the draft?
by Cedarpenguin on May 19, 2010 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions
I think if the Wolves find a way to get Turner
then they will be willing to overpay Darko a bit (not crazy overpay, but add an extra million for a couple years), because Turner will cost what they would have used to get a different center. Since they have cap space, it seems reasonable, especially since unused cap space is a wasted asset. In other words, I’d rather pay Darko 20% more than he is worth and use the 16th pick to move up, than use the 16th pick on a center and not use the cap space.
philly fans over at their blog are absolutely gaga over turner
not that it means their managment feels the same way. I just think teams will draft for talent not necessarily position. I have reservations about cousins who I believe has more potential than favors but also comes with “stuff”, but definitely won’t be upset if he drops down to 4.
I thought it was sort of funny watching Jrue Holiday. You can tell he’s nervous thinking “crap, I’m in the top 3 and the consensus BPA is a point guard.” Then he smiles when they pick #2.
I just don't see Iguodala and Turner playing the 2 and the 3 together
They just have so much in common (except that Turner isn’t as egotistical and is a better passer). If they do get Turner, they might strut out a starting lineup of Jrue-Lou-Turner-Iguodala-Brand or something
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"Keep your head up and don't let anything get to you." - Dante Bichette Jr.
#3 + #6 + #15 + #1 = QPU (Quantum Physics University) #25, and no, it's not because of Anthony Carter
I know people are looking for silver linings
but it’s all lipstick on a pig to me right now. I’ve rarely been this depressed over something basketball-related in my life. Another season of crappy basketball at the Target Center and Korean recipes at Canis Hoopus. I’ve lost my motivation for this stuff.
Yeah, me too
1 or 2 would have been great, 3 would have been acceptable. 4 is terrible, unless some team in the Top 3 falls in love with Cousins. This was not something the Wolves could afford. Hopefully Ronzone can sniff out some star potential, later in the draft. Never know, I guess.
He is the Wild Card in this whole thing
both literally and figuratively it would seem.
It is interested, Favors and Cousins are probably both more talented than Turner, but the question marks are scary. If the Wolves stay at #4 it won’t be a so-so deal, they either get lucky with an All-Star, or the pick blows up on them.
this franchise can't afford a blow-up
Then they have to re-re-re-re-re build the re-re-re-re-build. They will move. This why you can’t take Cousins if you think there’s a chance that he goes nuts, doesn’t pan out, and alienate fans. There’s a much lower cost to taking Wes Johnson and upgrading talent, and getting to 35-40 wins in two years.
I know, I know, not exciting, but Cousins would have the potential to save the franchise or destroy it.
He'd be Corey Brewer squared
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
disagree
yes, wes johnson as a role player does not help.
But it’s the range of options that has me worried.
The thing that destroys the franchise is losing and incidents that destroy the last remaining bits of good will left for this sad franchise.
Imagine if Cousins starts the next on court fan vs. players brawl.
Done and done. Wolves don’t have the history of Indiana or Detroit.
Franchise is gone.
I think the 2007 Oden/Durant was more crushing. But yeah. This stinks.
Just make a good pick, Wolves.
At least the Blazers are still a playoff team for the next few years
Say we draft Wesley Johnson and the best FA that we get is Childress. Is there any reason to believe that we will win any more than 20 games next season?
. . . aaannnd you just refuted
your original argument about “another season of crappy basketball.” Assuming that you were hoping for Turner, and that he is as good as he seems to be, this team would still have been super crappy. Not as bad as last year, but certainly not a playoff contender. Look at Atlanta—50 wins, three players better than the Wolves’ best player, and they fired their coach.
Whatever moves the Wolves make, they would have had to make with Turner, too, so as much as I love the guy, deciding that tonight is the end of hope for next year is incorrect. Hope for this team ended long before tonight.
I'm inclined to sympathize with your pessimistic attitude
but perhaps we would all be better served attending remedial optimism classes at the Dale Carnegie-Maynholup School of Positive Thinking.
"Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have." Steven Wright
I'm Positive
that I Think you should go fuc . . .
Excuse me. You’re right. It’s the cough syrup talking, not me. I’ll go lie down now.
If you're drinking cough syrup to soothe our collective pain
then I’ll forgive you.
"Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have." Steven Wright
F.. cough syrup
He should have had a real excuse like me, 14 deep into my case of miller.
"This town, this night, this crowd
Come on put them up, let me hear it loud"
by Stay classy, Joe. on May 18, 2010 11:45 PM CDT up reply actions
[cough, cough] Perhaps a little of the old Nyquil is just a euphemism
for his favorite adult beverage [fill in your preferred drink] of which he is on [#] out of 24 or # pints/quarts/Sam’s Club Imperial Gallons.
"Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have." Steven Wright
Brilliant
almost as good as your signature line, which I love, by the way.
We could use a proper an analogy for the Wolves too.
The Wolves: the A of B.
Any suggestions?
"Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have." Steven Wright
Refuted my original argument? Boy, you're just the smartest person ever
I’m humbled by your presence here.
Evan Turner would’ve been a shot in the arm for this team and I think we could’ve won around 30 games with him here and some other decent moves. Not playoffs, but a respectable finish of 30 games.
Now, I’m expecting another season with less than 20 games. It’s only 10 wins, but for me, that’s a pretty big deal.
Go refute some other arguments. Jesus Christ.
Well, I don't know if I'm
the smartest person ever, as that’s a mightly long time, and there are several other worthy candidates who at least deserve consideration, if not the actual title. But thank you, anyway.
Evan Turner over say, Cousins or Favors or Johnson is worth an extra ten wins to this team? Wow. Then they should trade the entire team, the rights to Rubio, and every other first round pick for the next ten years for the 2nd pick, as he will not only be the guaranteed Rookie of the Year, but a top contender for MVP. I hope the Wiz know what they’re doing if they pick Wall instead.
I disagree
but I give you credit for sticking to your guns (and I DO really like Turner), and I’m not convinced that:
A. He won’t fall to the Wolves
B. The Wolves won’t trade up
So here’s to getting Ten Win Turner to the Timberwolves (clink).
I think I'm just pissed off about tonight's events
and because I don’t want to say anything else stupid in anger, I’m going to make the smart decision and go to bed. Nothing personal, PD. I know you have your ways. =P
Well, just getting a good night's sleep tonight
won’t necessarliy prevent you from saying something stupid tomorrow.
I hear you, I feel you, I read you, I see you. You’re right, but this ain’t over yet. David Kahn has faliled as both a lawyer and journalist, so I trust him to save us AND the Timberwolves.
Goodnight.
I'm curious what "your ways" are...
on 2nd thought, don’t want to know.
I agree, ten wins next year means nothing, but if Turner is worth 10 wins a year for the next decade, it does add up to something like 98 wins.
I would ask this question, how many wins will Pekovic, the #16, and #23 picks add over the next ten years? Probably less than 100, hence I would trade all of them to move up to #2 if that will get the job done.
Again,
run that one by the Sixers board and see what kind of response you get.
And if I can just get an address, I’ll stop by Casa Rumblebee for a demonstration of My Ways.
(I’ll need you to supply one bag of cotton balls, a recent hard-bound edition of the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, and a well-oiled and gassed up Husqvarna chain saw).
I was thinking a simple Google search action
would do the trick. But this other option sounds intriguing.
"Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have." Steven Wright
OK
You are either a “retired” CIA agent, or made interesting movies in the 80’s…either way I just pulled my head back out of the toilet.
I have no disagreement that Philly “fans” will hate any deal involving cap space, but management may not see it that way. It also depends on how they sell the deal. The Wolves managed to move down from Mayo to Love to save money and sold the idea to many fans, Philly could do the same. If they start inside talk now that they really like Cousins and think he is the best player in the draft, a month from now that is reality to most 76er’s fans.
I'd also say that 'Reke was worth about that many wins to Sac-Town
last season, give or take a couple
let's focus our anger...
where it’s deserved, at the FO and the f’ed up strategy of tanking. This is exactly why the lottery is implemented, so teams that feed their fans crap for years and years, always looking toward the draft, don’t get rewarded for their behavior. How many years in a row have we tanked? It’s been a disaster to see games during the last quarter of a season for as long as I can remember.
So don’t be angry at each other, we’re all just bitter fans… though poor dick might be the smartest ever, with the electricity, and the eyeglasses, and the statesman thing.
by midlife crisis on May 19, 2010 12:01 AM CDT up reply actions
he did like the ladies..
"Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have." Steven Wright
And with those rugged good lookd . . .
. . . how could the ladies not like him?
Besides, HE DISCOVERED FREAKING ELECTRICITY WITH A GODDAM KITE!!!! AND A KEY!!!!
In Philly
to this day, they still talk about his philandering founding father ways.
"Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have." Steven Wright
I think he would have published them.
Guy was a printer.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
Terez Owens, too!
That site has great coverage of the Delonte West-Mademoiselle James scandal.
"Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have." Steven Wright
I read a BF biography
and it made it sound like he liked them (except for his poor wife) a lot more than they liked him.
The one I really loved
was called “The First American.”
There was another one that became a best seller a couple of years back, but read the preface in that one sometime. It really frames the choices that “founding” generation made well.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
That is usually the case, I suspect
save for James Bond and that swarmy guy in the Dos Equis ads.
"Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have." Steven Wright
The immediate goal now, I think,
is those 30+ wins.
It’s not unattainable. Not at all. And if only, if only the Wolves could win enough next year to give the Clippers their pick, we’d be spared the excruciating possibility of the Clippers winning it all on our dime the spring after that. That would be devastating.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
Ahem.
The previous year, Portland had the worst record in the league. They lost the lottery, had the #4 pick, dealt up to LMA at #2, and then did their Roy-Foye swap with us. Very successful draft.
The Oden/Durant year, the Blazers had much worse odds and won the thing. Things come around.
(If you want to be devastated, wait for two years from now. If the Wolves are still languishing, that’s when the Clippers will win it all on our unprotected pick. Marko Jaric can be their representative at the lottery that night.)
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
The problem...
…with the Wolves outside of the Shaq/Zo draft, is not where they picked, but how they picked. Save your despair for the day after the draft, not the lotto ;)
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
which is why...
….i’m not worked up about kahn yet. i’ll save that for when the guy who took jonny flynn gets his hands on the 4th pick and surprises us all.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
This is true
hopefully we won’t be regretting the move. This draft will have a star or near-star taken with the 3rd-5th picks, the Wolves need to get the right guy.
I'd rather we had the 3rd pick so we could be sure to get Cousins
but we still have a great chance with the 4th pick.
Wall would have been a great asset to trade or build around, but I’ve never been sold on Turner. So I’m not that upset.
Also – MATH mofos, MATH! Stop being a bunch of Minnesota milkduds who bemoan their “bad luck” as if that had anything to do with it. Kahn can still make a good casserole out of the chips he has, much better than if we had the 5th pick.
This all rests on his shoulders anyways. In 2 months we’ll know what we got and whether he is the person for the job or not.
Fortunately, I think this is where someone like Kahn can shine. Although many may not believe in his ability to judge talent, it is very clear that he has the analytical ability to wheel and deal through complex situations. The previous administration could make trades, but I never had the impression they were really analyzing the trades in the context of salary caps, assets, etc. This is Kahn’s strength. He will really earn his paycheck this summer. If we received the number 2 pick, it would have been easy.
Other than being a lawyer
who’s not currently a lawyer and left a trail of lawsuits in his wake in the NBDL, what evidence do you have that Kahn has “analytical ability to wheel and deal through complex situations”? How does getting the #2 pick make his job “easy,” vs. picking two spots later(!) make him “really earn his paycheck this summer”?
I'd say it's easier
to pick 4th than 2nd… though picking fourth will require a lot more work after the draft :)
Wages of Wins on the Consensus Top 5 Prospects.
They don’t seem to factor in age, which is a huge deal. But I think there’s a lot of evidence out that the top prospects are much more fluid than is being assumed by a lot of people. And even if they’re not, Demarcus Cousins could well be worth the risk and the trouble (e.g., his maturity and his basically forcing their hand in dealing Al).
And before anyone starts off on 'WoW folks are so doctrinaire," read this bit:
So what I am I saying? This really is not an easy decision.
It’s amazing to me how set-in-stone people feel like things are. Basically I see it as a consequence of negative emotion – disappointment. We all feel it. But you can’t get tunnel vision. When you start tearing down the temple, sure, it can seem like there’s only one option, and like you have to say “yes” or “no” to that one. That’s not how life works, though.
It’s going to be a roller coaster summer. Okay, so our coaster started out with a small drop. Keep riding.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
I feel like I'm in a Ron Howard film
and you’re Steve Martin’s grandmother.
But you are correct, it will hopefully we a roller coaster summer. It would be a disappointment if it were not.
tanking disaster
This is the great thing about tanking. Not only did we not get our top two pick, but our draft pick will likely force us to trade Al while he’s still injured, coming off a 15 win season. It would be sad, once he’s gone, to see what the KG trade netted us after 3 years. Ish.
by midlife crisis on May 18, 2010 11:30 PM CDT reply actions
I really hope
the word tanking is banned on this site for the next decade. Seriously SNP, get on it, the Wolves cannot do anything next season that resembles tanking, we’ve been dealing with it since the Mad Dog 3 pointer game, enough!
We can ban terms
but then just come up with synonyms, such as “willful and deliberate underperforming in hopes of procuring higher position in lottery only to be disappointed by moving down x spots.”
"Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have." Steven Wright
I like your definition
let me provide a new word for the Webster’s 2011 dictionary:
T-Wolfing!
See your description above for the meaning.
I need to go to bed now.
Just make sure Richard doesn't get his well-oiled
Husqvarna on it.
“T-Wolfing” is much better! Please add to lexicon official CH lexicographer.
"Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have." Steven Wright
Catchy in its acronym form:
“waduihophpilotbdbmdxs”
or
“Wa-doo-ih-hop H-pilot Bd-bm-dee-ex-is.”
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
"Wa-doo-ih-hop H-pilot Bd-bm-dee-ex-is."
put that to music, my friend, and we may have another fine candidate for great off season performances. I’d love to see Maynholup singing it!
"Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have." Steven Wright
this is a pretty deep draft
not a lot of stars, but some solid role players out there. as a laker fan, i wish we had more than 2 picks like you guys to rejuvenate our bench.
which players fit the triangle? i’d take aminu at #5. if he’s not available, then wesley johnson. i’d like to take tall, long players capable of both spreading the floor and making the post entry-pass. i’d try to trade up for xavier henry, even if it meant using up those other 2 first round picks.
"I've hacked into your brain. You're throwing a party and no one's showing up."
Sorry if it's been mentioned
but do you guys think Philly would have any interest in this deal:
To MN:
Elton Brand
Evan Turner
Jrue Holiday (depends how high they are on Holiday I guess…)
To Philly:
Al Jefferson
Ricky Rubio
Nikola Pekovic
Choice of Flynn or Sessions
If necessary, I would be willing to include 16 or 23. We give them a small amount of cap relief and immediate talent infusion of Jefferson over Brand. We give them the rights to Ricky Rubio and Nikola Pekovic and allow them to pick between Flynn or Sessions to fill the gap in the meantime.
We get back Evan Turner and a good young PG prospect while eating a ton of dead weight in salary. I guess it depends on how Philly views a) Elton Brand v. Al Jefferson b) Ricky Rubio v. Evan Turner and c) Holiday v. Flynn/Sessions and Pekovic
I’d personally give a huge advantage to Jefferson, a decent advantage to Turner, and a tie to the last part.
For us, we walk out of the draft with a lineup of:
Holiday/Jonny or Ramon
Evan Turner/Ellington
Brewer/Turner/Childress???
Love/Cousins (or Favors)
Cousins/Darko
With possibly an extra pick or two for Seraphin, Henry, Anderson, or Bledsoe???
I forgot to include Brand
but he really is more or less useless now anyways… also on second though, I think maybe I am overrating Holiday’s actual talent while underrating Philly’s attachment to him?
Seriously?
I wouldn’t touch that trade from our perspective. Rubio is worth more than Holiday, who is no better than Flynn IMO, Jefferson is younger and healthier than Brand and Pek’s rights are valuable.
Way too much to give up for Turner.
by TWolvesFanInLA on May 19, 2010 12:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Sorry I disagree
Holliday is better than Flynn. This is especially clear when factoring in Defense.
by Jose Cordoba on May 19, 2010 12:23 AM CDT up reply actions
Perhaps, but Rubio is better/more valuable than Holiday so even giving you the point re: Flynn, I still wouldn’t do this trade.
by TWolvesFanInLA on May 19, 2010 12:30 AM CDT up reply actions
The albatross of Elton Brand is a big thing too.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Yeah, Jebus.
I did not see that turning out so poorly. I mean, I know he was injured, so maybe my brain wasn’t working it through, but man did he drop off fast.
by aarendsvark on May 19, 2010 12:48 AM CDT up reply actions
Never been a big Elton Brand fan. And I was never a fan of the move to Philly. It's what he gets IMO.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Flynn doesn't seem to fit in Rambis' system all that well
But he’s better than Holliday
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"Keep your head up and don't let anything get to you." - Dante Bichette Jr.
#3 + #6 + #15 + #1 = QPU (Quantum Physics University) #25, and no, it's not because of Anthony Carter
Holiday is the youngest player in the league
He’s already a better defender, will always have better size, and is a more natural point guard. He will be a consensus better player than Flynn within 2 years and never look back.
That said, I’m a little too attached to Rubio to make this deal. Jefferson does have to be turned into a very good wing player, but it doesn’t have to be Turner and it doesn’t have to cost us Rubio at the same time.
I think this deal depends on
what you think of Brand… his production, while obviously not anywhere close to being worth his contract and definitely worse than pre-injury, is not that bad! His efficiency improved from last year (still below avg of course), his rebounding is a little too low, steals and blocks are roughly equivalent (steals above average, blocks below), turnovers are equal, and passing is down (which is probably a product of Philly, because an injury shouldn’t affect that, should it?).
So basically I think you are seeing this deal as just giving up Jefferson for free but still paying his contract. That’s not at all the case. They have the same amount of years and Jefferson is only paid a couple mil per year less. But you have to realize, Jefferson’s contract is not a “good” contract either. It’s not like Philly is getting a steal with him.
As for Rubio, he is unfortunately not a guarantee to come play for us. While I wouldn’t do this deal if Rubio were coming this season, I would probably do it because he is not.
Jrue Holiday has done phenomenal this year for his expectations. I’d also like to point out that most of Brand’s 5-man lineups that included Holiday (that did NOT include another scoring guard like Iverson or Lou Williams) were actually a pretty good net positive. So there must be some value there still. Jrue Holiday fits that prototypical triangle PG as well: solid defense, good perimeter shooting (assuming he keeps it up), decent playmaking, doesn’t need the ball in his hands.
Plus, we are walking out of this 4-player draft with two of those top 4 players… that’s got to count for something. Especially since Evan Turner is one of them, and the most productive big in the last 20 years is the other.
The Biggest Smile on My Face with Cousins
Is now Stat-Heads could have another big besides K.Love to write essays about his greatness.
My hope as a Kings fan.....
…is that Kahn takes Cousins at 4 and leaves Aminu on the board for us.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Perhaps
Kahn takes Aminu, and trades him and some other big lug to the Kings for Cousins and the Israeli Assassin?
Nah
It’s possible the Kings take Cousins. But you could be right as well PD. I wouldn’t put it past Kahn to try that.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
It's possible the Kings might trade Donte Greene though.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I hit the roof when I saw our logo emerging from that envelope
Didn’t even watch how it ended. I hear it’s Washington’s year. Hurray for them, they certainly deserve something for signing Gilbert Arenas to a $100 million deal and intentionally dismantling their team. OK OK, I promised myself I wouldn’t be bitter. Well, after fuming for a couple minutes when we got our pick, I immediately drove to the drive in theatre to chill out. Iron Man 2 is awesome, and it helped chill me out. I haven’t even gotten so far as to wonder about who we should pick, or who might be available. But if I can just complain a tiny bit – it’s so damn hard being a fan of this team. We desperately need a franchise-changer, we almost certainly have to get him in the draft, and it just really, really sucks to get denied in the Lottery every year. We didn’t even need luck, we just had to stay in place. But no. Who knows what could happen, but right now, I’m just really sick of getting kicked in the gut like that.
Wiz got the top pick
Philly the 2nd pick, and the Nets got the 3rd pick.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I would think
You’d want a Rebounding Force like Cousins.
Pookey-Shed some light into your thought Process.
I'm a Favors guy.
It’s best I just say read this (it’s Favors vs Cousins—also long) and read why I don’t really want Cousins. I’m much in bigger favor of Aminu at this point than Cousins.
The basic reasons are Cousins shot selection, his weight and conditioning, and his difficulties with coaches and what not. All fixable and everything else. Quite frankly, I’m not sure why the Nets wouldn’t want Cousins and play a Twin-Towers concept with Lopez-Cousins. That’s hardly a bad thing either.
But as I say, I’m not in love with Cousins.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 19, 2010 12:36 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Great Write-Up !!!
Few Points of Contention
1. Favors has a TS of 4% higher where as Cousins has a Usage Rate of nearly 9% higher. I tend to think a TS OF 58 with that usage as a College-Freshman should alleviate concerns about shot selection.
2. It’s highly unlikely Favors wingspan is in Cousins Ball-Park.
I would probably take Favors first- but Stop N Pop has made a strong case for Cousins.
by Jose Cordoba on May 19, 2010 12:51 AM CDT up reply actions
He has made a strong case.
And, part of the reason Favors TS% is that Cousins has a poor shot selection at times. That’s not likely to go away in the pro’s. Maybe it will but I don’t think so. Players tend to take quality shots or they don’t.
It will be interesting nonetheless.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Also thanks.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Thanks for the link...
even if I’m on the other side of the fence. I worry about another project because we tend to damage rather than develop our projects. Also, is length also drops him squarely at the PF which means we deal one of our best two players.
Honestly, though, I can’t be too disappointed in pick 4. At least we just take the guy who falls to us and we can’t second guess Kahn too much… unless you count this entire 15 win season.
by midlife crisis on May 19, 2010 6:05 AM CDT up reply actions
I said these same things about KG at the time
I worry about another project because we tend to damage rather than develop our projects. Also, is length also drops him squarely at the PF which means we deal one of our best two players.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
An ESPN article on Wall watching the lottery
says that Fegan (his agent as well as Rubio’s) openly cheered when the Wolves got the 4th pick. Interesting. That could have a couple meanings. From “Rubio has settled on coming here” to “Our reputation as a franchise is at an all time low.”
No fooling you......
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Interesting to hear Fegan's reaction
I’m sure at the very least he didn’t want to be dealing with Wall going to the Wolves while explaining how that is good for Rubio.
I know half of you out there believe Rubio will never be a Wolf, and I understand your sentiments, but I think not getting the #1 pick is really going to be good for the Wolves. Wall may end up being a star, but I don’t think he would have been here.
No I think the Wolves would have had difficulty taking Wall and keeping Rubio.
It was not an ideal situation for the Wolves, and getting value for the pick comparative to what many fans believed was not likely.
Personally, it’s amazing how many arguments the draft inspires from fanbase to fanbase though. Like you, as a Kings fan, I think it’s okay that the Wolves dropped down to 4. It’s actually an acute measure of David Kahn’s ability to make the Wolves better.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
"It’s actually an acute measure of David Kahn’s ability to make the Wolves better"
Now I’m really afraid.
Don't blame you.
It’s hard to feel good about the 4th pick in the draft after a 15 win season.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
You did pretty well last year after a similar record
"Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have." Steven Wright
Didn't feel that way at the time for some.
That was my original point. And, I was fine picking 4th after it was all said & done.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Before the Kings took Tyreke I mean
I was not happy at the time of the picking however. LOL I called Geoff Petrie senile and said he should retire. Whoops?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
It's fair to say that Kahn's
job will now be a little more difficult, but with the assets at their disposal, it should still be doable.
I agree.
Even if Kahn stood pat, and took Cousins at 4, Stanley Robinson at 16 (I really like him but I understood why others do not), and whomever at 23 (probably BPA).
Right now, I know that the Wolves could do some good things given the opportunity. It will be interesting to see what the Wolves would do with 3 top 23 picks to begin with.
What I do know is that if the Wiz called up and said we’ll trade Josh Howard’s team option contract for Al Jefferson, I’d do it. Even if you want Howard, you only have to keep him for a year. If you don’t, well, you got more cap room.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Robinson at 16 is a pretty big stretch
James Anderson might fall to there
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"Keep your head up and don't let anything get to you." - Dante Bichette Jr.
#3 + #6 + #15 + #1 = QPU (Quantum Physics University) #25, and no, it's not because of Anthony Carter
Not as high on James Anderson.
Not sure why.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I have a feeling he was just wanting Minnesota to not have 4 point guards
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"Keep your head up and don't let anything get to you." - Dante Bichette Jr.
#3 + #6 + #15 + #1 = QPU (Quantum Physics University) #25, and no, it's not because of Anthony Carter
hmmm
’tied with all time low" perhaps?
"Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have." Steven Wright
Another, more logical, explanation
We wouldn’t have taken him first… John Wall wants to go first.
I think it is this simple
if the Wolves want to draft #2, they can get there, it will cost Pekovic to NJ, the #16 and #23 to Philly. If the Wolves get Turner and he is their starting SG for ten years, will anybody care that it cost them Pek, #16, and #23. Probably not, unless Pek is better than projected. Would it be nice to use these guys to improve a different position? Sure, but they will probably have a top ten pick next summer, and can trade Flynn to fill a need.
A good thing to me, this result means it is more likely Rubio is a Wolf in the next year or so.
I hope Kahn still pushes for Turner, the fact he felt sympathy for Wolves fans tells me he wanted to be here, perhaps because of the Big Ten connection. Long term it is best to have players who want to be here.
SNP, I also heard the Kahn interview and the comment about a deep draft for wings, but he went on to say they wouldn’t all be starters, which made me think he was talking about later in the first round and finding players like Ellington.
Question: Why is the pay the pick option reversed, meaning if the Wolves got the #1 pick you would pay five dollars, and if they got screwed with the #5 pick you would pay one dollar. I thought about signing up before the lottery, but sat in this section the first season the Wolves were playing at Target Center, these are bad seats, and unless the team is a playoff contender, upper deck baseline really isn’t worth $5 or the effort to get there. That stadium needed more seats on the main level, basketball is 3 dimensional and sitting by the rafters just stinks.
These are good points
especially about the tickets. Somebody in college should write a thesis on how fans can fool themselves into thinking that the end result of the Pay the Pick option is going to be Win Win, and we’re all going to watch John Wall for a buck a night.
It's all speculation
The draft is always a crapshoot. Nobody can tell who the BPA is yet. One thing we know for sure, mistakes will be made, and jewels will be found up and down the first and second rounds. Remember where Tony Parker got drafted? Kobe? KG? Nash? The list goes on and on and on. Last years # 1 Griffin hasn’t even played yet. Oden was drafted #1 overall, and has barely played in 3 years. All the speculation is fine, but if last summer is any indication, trades will be made, picks will be moved, and the transformation of this franchise has finally begun.
all of those players were developed...
We kind of need someone to come in right now and turn things around, like Shaq, or LeBron, or D Howard, or Hakeem, or D Robinson, or AI…
but on your side of the equation is Kwame Brown and Olowakandi. I guess we shouldn’t put away our failed good luck charms yet.
by midlife crisis on May 19, 2010 6:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Did anyone listen to the BS Report...
With JJ Redick? I really wouldn’t mind Redick on our team. Great shooter. Plays pretty good defense. Has played on contenders.
Would Orlando match a 4 year 16 million dollar deal for Redick?
I'm hoping we sign Redick
He’s really had his playing time jerked around in Orlando for a guy who plays good defense, and very smart offense. Last night, anyone watching the 4th Quarter could see that good things happened when Redick had the ball, and a lot of bad happened when Vince had it. Had the ref not blown that blocking call on Baby Davis, Orlando may have won the game. He’d be a great pickup for what we are lacking.
it pains me to say it...
…because he’s a dookie, but he’s a good fit.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Redick is a good player
But he made a bone head mistake dribbling the ball toward half court before the time out. They couldn’t advance the ball and didn’t get a look at the end of last night’s game.
by Breaking Ankles on May 19, 2010 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions
A rare boneheaded play for Redick.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
you could tell he was expecting the foul..
…and that he was trying to run a few more seconds off the clock. he’s definitely not a guy with the ball in his hands a lot in that situation. Rudy Gay and Redick would make for good free agent signings for this team.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
I don't get your Rudy Gay love. (And never have.)
Then again, I don’t like Rudy Gay. So that’s probably why.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
my pipe dream was...
….turner + favors + rudy gay. add a pinch of rubio and it would have been insane.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
How did you even think gettin favors + turner was possible? LOL
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
they needed...
…to get the 2nd pick and then sell the farm for the 4th pick.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
What if the Nets got the 3rd pick?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
i did mention..
…that this was a pipe dream, right? ;)
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
I only ask because Thorn is rumored to be quite in love with the kid.
And yes, you mentioned it was a pipe dream. Just wondered how it played out is all.
Also, everyone is entitled to one pipe dream.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
favors is a perfect fit for jersey
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
They can all take anti-behavioral meds and sing Cumbuyah together.....
…..ah the dreams of life!
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
How is he a good fit on a running team...
That already has a sub- 6’6 backup 2? I don’t have any specific problems with him, but not for this team.
by pagingstanleyroberts on May 19, 2010 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions
Redick also said he'd rather play 15-20 minutes on a contender...
rather than start on a 20-win team. And he sounded convincing when he and BS had a protracted discussion on it. Based on his background/pedigree (college grad… went to Duke… from more of a middle-class background than many NBA players), it was more convincing coming from him than it would be from many other players.
Not saying the Wolves would necessarily want him to start long-term, but he’d certainly be our best 2 at this point.
That comment...
Is what really sold me on Redick as a good player for the Wolves. Unfortunately though, making that same comment most likely means he won’t join us.
Talking myself into DeMarcus Cousins since 5/18/10
You could see the pick dropping when...
Kahn had a Memphis Grizzlies logo next to his name during his interview.
by Breaking Ankles on May 19, 2010 9:00 AM CDT reply actions
You know what's stupid?
“The Timberwolves are drafting in the spot they had the best chance of ending up in”.
If every team drafted in the spot with the highest odds, NJ and the Wolves would draft fourth, Sacto and GS would draft fifth, Washington and Philly would draft sixth, and 7th through 14 would draft in those spots.
by KMils on May 19, 2010 9:23 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Bring em back!
I think the wolves strategy this year should be to get the guys back that they originally drafted, only to give them up and receive nothing in return: Ray Allen, Brandon Roy, OJ Mayo — as well as Ty Lawson…. and then see if KG wants to come back —> Championship???
The Citizen Kane mood I think of, more,
is the one after he loses the election, with Kane talking to Jedediah in the empty campaign headquarters. It’s shot from the floor, where Gregg Toland had the camera mounted. The mood is desolate. I don’t feel that way, but the board does.
(Later on, if things go poorly, we can have Glen ‘Kane’ Taylor fire David ‘Jedediah’ Kahn for writing an unfavorable review of Jonny ‘Susan Alexander’ Flynn.)
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
Here's that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vj_l42Eoti0
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
But if you want The Third Man,
try the great ending scene where our hero sees his girlfriend walk right on by.
C’mon, NBA, look our way!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5icX835oyh4&feature=related
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
Actually, seems many scenes from The Third Man might work
that ending is amazing, too.
"Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have." Steven Wright
Next year's Target Center arena music:
all zither.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
Sign me up for season tickets
"Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have." Steven Wright
Bring the kids early on 'fake morphine night'
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
it was good enough for billy bouroughs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh77zevm6cY
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
We should have balloons, too,
and a parrot that bites opposing player’s fingers.
"Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have." Steven Wright
That ferris wheel is still drawing ’em.
I don’t want to pay to ship it, though. We could hold fans up where Blimp Remote Guy stands in the rafters, and ask them how many season ticket holders they’d do without at $5000 apiece. Without taxes, old man, without taxes.
And my final Third Man moment:
“When the picture came out, the Swiss very nicely pointed out to me that they’ve never made any cuckoo clocks.” – Orson Welles
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
OK, I'll stop too
after dubbing Kevin Durant the Oklahoma Kid with Danny Granger as the Lone Rider of Santa Fe.
"Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have." Steven Wright
Okay,
we’ll call this stream of consciousness off, then.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
Damn it!
that reminds me of another favorite scene, when Holly Martins is speaking at the British Club on the novel, and he’s really struggling as Popescu comes in and asks if he is working on a new novel, which is, of course, said novel/film’s title.
"Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have." Steven Wright
Agreed on the mood of Kane and his loss in CK
But I selected “The Third Man” not only because it’s a such a great film, but as an unveiled allusion to Kahn’s remark that this was a three-man draft, consigning us, not surprisingly, to the fourth pick. The “it’s not that awful line” was fortuitous luck, which is why I included the scene. Plus, I love the way Orson enunciates “cuckoo clock.” No wonder he was so frustrated reading copy for green pea ads.
"Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have." Steven Wright
He wrote that line.
It’s among his only original contributions to Carol Reed’s movie. That guy knew how to make an appearance.
(If anyone shows up for workouts with a kitten on his high-tops, we know whom to draft.)
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
That entrance is one of the best in cinematic history
Thanks, too, for the trivia there. Did he also add in the fingers through the grate at the end of the chase scene? That was another amazing shot that sticks with me.
"Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have." Steven Wright
Those are Reed's fingers.
God I love that movie. If you haven’t seen it on the Criterion Collection DVD, it’s unbelievably clean to look at there.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
I shall add this to my wish list! Thanks for the suggestion.
Was Reed trying to make a statement by using his own fingers in that shot. Or was it just a cameo for kicks?
"Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have." Steven Wright
No idea about his finger-y motives.
Might just have been a practical thing. I can’t remember hearing why.
If you’re netflixing that DVD, make sure you get the extras disk too. Old Harry Lime radio shows, a documentary about the Vienna police units that inspired the big chase scene, the Graham Greene novella…. I can’t remember what all extras there are, but it’s a cool set. Oh, some footage of Anton Karas playing somewhere, too.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
Thanks, Feral.
I already have Anton in the old iTunes library, and soon will be purchasing a Criterion edition of the movie.
"Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have." Steven Wright
it's a must-have..
…on criterion. that, touch of evil, rules of the game, raiders of the lost arc, and cabin boy are the 5 movies i couldn’t live without.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
I posted this video on another thread
But I think it connects to the current mood around here. Enjoy.
by pagingstanleyroberts on May 19, 2010 11:27 AM CDT reply actions
haha. more fodder for google bombs.
"Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have." Steven Wright
Rick Kamla on PA this morning...
A few highlights:
- Cousins’ upside is Chris Wilcox
- Thinks the Wolves should take Wesley Johnson
- Said the Wolves aren’t in a place where they should be worrying about how Jefferson and Love fit together because they’re too good compared to their teammates to not play together
- Thinks Darko’s worth more like $3 mil than $4-5
- Doesn’t see any chance at getting Rudy Gay because of being an RFA and MN not being a destination FAs want to come to
- This was where I realized TV guys’ opinions are sometimes not better than the average rube fan: He thinks the Wolves should give Anthony Fucking Morrow the full mid-level exception and that the guy could put up 18 a game
by pagingstanleyroberts on May 19, 2010 12:07 PM CDT reply actions
Chris Wilcox.
Man, the whole range of those opinions sort’ve makes me taste blood at the back of my mouth. Darko’s just about the only one I’m agreeing with, right off the bat.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
Wilcox?
That is an absolutely terrible take.
Cousins is much larger, and much less explosive. Their games are also different. Are you sure he wasn’t talking about Favors? He resembles Wilcox from a physical standpoint much more than Cousins..
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
You're right, Favors and Wilcox bear a lot more similarity.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
I heard the Kamla interview,
it was tough to take, as PSR said above. I think Morrow could fill a role on the Wolves, but just don’t see how he is full MLE, which by the way, isn’t even a factor as long as the Wolves are under the cap, which Kamla should know.
I don't think
Kamla knows (in general). At least, that’s the conclusion I came to after reading his thoughts.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
by biggity2bit on May 19, 2010 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions
He’s always struck me as basically an average rube who happens to have a job on TV. That shouldn’t be mistaken for him really having a clue.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
Something to remember about Kamla
he comes from the fantasy sports side of things, so he probably overvalues offensive stats, hence his love for Morrow because of his 3-point shooting, and his belief that Darko isn’t worth more than $3 mil per season (fantasy guys don’t care much about defense).
Probably also why he still wants Love and Jefferson together, defense does play to his eye.
According to Kamla, the Wolves should go into next season with a starting lineup including Love, Jefferson, and Johnson. That lineup better never miss a shot, because the other team won’t be missing many!
If Morrow played even average defense
I would consider it…..
But he doesn’t.
it's pretty hard...
…to think of two front court players with more different games than wilcox and cousins. he may as well have said craig smith.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
not about game, about desire
I think that’s the comparison Kamla’s making. The same attitude problems will limit both Wilcox and Cousins.
Wilcox has a slooooow motor
he’s one of these guys where they say “if this guy played hard all the time, he’d be a beast.” But they guy just doesn’t give two shits.
Same rumors about Cousins. You don’t want a big without a motor. Rambis knows that, that’s why he fucked with Love all year.
I'd argue
that Cousins almost has too much of a motor..
No
but competitiveness does. And he usually gets angry when he gets too competitive.
Too competitive is a problem the Wolves should be shooting for.
BetterLaettner
by BetterLaettnerThanRider on May 20, 2010 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions
Uh, Rasheed Wallace has a "motor" problem, apparently?
Not over his career, he didn’t.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR

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