Let's Settle This: What should the Wolves do with the 4th pick? (with poll!)
by PoorDick on May 19, 2010 8:46 PM CDT
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Okay, we've cried until we have no more tears, and moved through the 12 Stages of Lotto Grief. While we ponder how much worse the Wolves would have actually done in the lottery if Kahn hadn't been Stern's hand-picked GM for the Wolves, or PA hadn't been there for extra luck, or Mayn hadn't posted in the waning hours before the draft, we need to take matters in our own sweaty hands.
David Kahn needs all the help he can get, so let's let him know what we think he should do now that the Wolves have the 4th pick. Let's hear it!
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I haven't been able to answer a few of these poll questions now
It absolutely 100% depends on what is offered or what it takes. I wouldn’t give up more than 4 and 16 to move up… I just don’t think Evan Turner, as well as he fits and as good as he is, is going to be that much better than Cousins. And I would be devastated in a year when Cousins turns out to be the most dominant player to come out of the draft since Lebron.
You know, for all that is said about Wall’s upside, I honestly think Cousins has more. He’s a beast and that’s all there is to it. If he is there at four and nothing presents itself that is an absolute steal for moving down or really cheap to move up, we take Cousins and smile all the way to the ROY.
If he takes Wes Johnson at the 4… I will start a movement to have him fired. He might be better, but it’s just not realistic for our franchise to expect him to be a star for our team that leads us to contention.
Very few realistic options that I would trade the pick for a single player. Batum is not nearly enough.
If Philly lets Iggy go...
I feel they then now need Turner.
by Timberwolf i.e. Albatross on May 20, 2010 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions
The thing that would kill me
is that if kahn understands what he says (that you need a star or stars) then you have to draft Cousins over Wes. Wes will never be a star in my opinion. And that seems to be the consensus opinion.
A Darko Fan since 2010!
by TheEvilProfessor on May 20, 2010 7:20 AM CDT up reply actions
unless he also understands that you can't draft a player than fans and teammates might hate
and who may or may not be a superstar. There’s a lot more risk to Cousins than Johnson. And while there’s also reward, the risk is a special kind of risk. The downside for most players is that they are busts. The downside for Cousins is that he is a bust and he erodes the last bit of goodwill this franchise has with the local public.
who shows up to the games anyways?
Every team can have one of those guys. the real problems are when you get a couple without any professional vet presence.
A Darko Fan since 2010!
by TheEvilProfessor on May 20, 2010 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions
this type of thinking is how the Jailblazers got started
what veteran wants to be around those types of young guys?
Ones who like
to make a million dollars a year for waving a towel?
Seriously, go over this list and tell me which ones the Wolves can afford, and outbid other teams for, and convince to come to the Land of 10,000 Announced Fans at the Target Center. Then eliminate the 30-somethings, since it doesn’t make a lot of sense to over pay for guys who will be retired well before the team makes the playoffs.
Otherwise, any veterans the Wolves can add are going to come handcuffed and straightjacketed in a trade.
heh
straightjacketed…heh
A Darko Fan since 2010!
by TheEvilProfessor on May 20, 2010 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions
And the opposite of this type of thinking
is where the Joel Maturi led Gophers are at now. There has to be some middle ground.
you mean with players accused of rape and stealing?
by littleboxes on May 20, 2010 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions
I haven't heard of any rape accusations
But I know of one player who has been accused of a felony assault who has been benched for over a year while nearly every other school in the nation would allow him to play during the legal process. I’m just sayin’ there’s got to be some middle ground in the evaluation process. Being a rigid puritan in player evaluation will cause problems.
You make a valid point
but I would say the better solution is to put yourself in a position where you don’t have to make the decision in the first place. In the Wolves case, find a way to move up two spots and draft Turner. Let someone else make the Cousins decision.
I hope not
I’m bored with myself already. But, at this point, (I always hedge my bets) I am very against drafting Cousins.
Yes, as you’ve stated, I really want the team to do their due diligence on the guy. I just don’t support them taking a risk with him.
The jailblazers started largely via trades for known bad apples.
Z-Bo was the guy they drafted. Otherwise that assemblage was of the Isaiah ‘J.R.’ Rider ilk.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
regardless
it’s somehow acquiring players that are very talented but “have yet to put it all together on the court.”
Yeah, I'm not sold on Cousinseses's character issues
being, uh, non-issues. But this team doesn’t have a whole lot to lose right now, so tepidly inserting Johnson into the line-up and hoping he bumps up production is a bigger worry than Cousins whipping a ball into the upper deck at the Target Center (plus, it’s not like there’s any fans there to be harmed).
My bigger concern over picking Cousins is whether he can play with Love/Jefferson, and if not, what Kahn can do to move one or the other for a better player on the wing. But still, they should take Cousins and worry about the rest of the stuff later.
This I agree with
They can’t stay at 4 and take Johnson. Either they decide they can deal with Cousins, or they trade out of that pick one way or another.
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on May 20, 2010 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
Kahn has to roll the dice. I could see McHale going with the character guy, solid but not spectacular. Although a very different sport, obviously, the Vikings did pretty well with Percy Favrin and Mr Moss (with Maynholup’s imprimatur, I imagine).
"Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have." Steven Wright
Remember. . .
McHale’s the one who drafted Shaddy McCants.
One thing I’ve read about Cousins is that he’s not a bad guy, just immature. Get him a therapist and a nice family to live with. (Could Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis please move back?)
Got me there
but from all the talk bantered about, Run DMC sounds far more “monstrous” than even Shaddy.
"Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have." Steven Wright
Same reason King Kong was more monstrous than Mighty Joe Young?
Mighty Joe was only like ten feet tall, but King Kong was like 40 feet. That’s an even bigger size difference than Shaddy and Cousins, but to a similar effect, I think.
by princelyfrank on May 20, 2010 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Move up, whatever it takes...
as long as we keep Rubio. I’d like to get Evan Turner and go from there.
I don't understand that
you must really love Turner and hate Cousins and all of his production to want to trade Love, Jefferson, #4, #16, #23 for Evan Turner.
Ha..
well I doubt that would be the trade. But, I’d give more than just draft picks, and keeping Rubio would be my primary concern.
I don’t want Cousins on the Wolves. I’m not going to keep repeating the reasons why.
The reason I don't want him....
I bought season tickets and watching a power forward do low post from the upper deck sounds boring compared to what Turner will bring.
Plus as much as I love all the action this off season will bring, would be nice to not draft a redundancy with our top pick then worry about moving people around.
by Timberwolf i.e. Albatross on May 20, 2010 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions
It is incredibly boring
My young age at the time (middle school, maybe?) may color my impressions of the game, but watching Tim Duncan back someone down in the post and hit a 6 foot shot about 15 times is not a fun watch from the upper deck. Especially if you’re directly behind the visitor’s hoop. I think this was before Ginobili and Parker electrified the team, however, so it’s important to have some entertaining players around that boring low-post stud.
Clearly not
He’s a beast and that’s all there is to it.
If this were all there was to it, he would be the first or second pick. There’s a lot more to it. I’m rather agnostic about the character issues; I don’t feel like I know enough about it to judge. But you have to allow for the fact that there could be a problem that the Wolves are just not equipped or willing to handle.
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on May 19, 2010 10:04 PM CDT reply actions
If the Wolves pass over
a guy this talented because they can’t or aren’t willing to handle it, that’s a massive failure for our organization.
If it wasn’t for the character issues, do you think he would be the first or second pick? Because I have seen a lot of people imply as much. When I talk about upside, attitude doesn’t factor in to that. Otherwise it wouldn’t be upside. It would be adjusted upside, brought to you by TimAllen.
Drafting Cousins for his talent while failing to recognize serious personal issues would be a massive failure for Twolves organization
I’m not saying his issues are definitely serious. But it’s not the NBA’s job or the Twolves job to help guys mature and get over “chips on their shoulder” or other issues. In fact, there’s no reason to believe that any team in the NBA is any good at doing such things. And there’s certainly no reason to believe that they would be successful at helping a young man with serious problems mature.
It’s all about orders of magnitude. Both in terms of his talent and his questionable attitude.
We don’t know how good he is. He put up big numbers, so have others who were just average pros. There’s a lot of smoke about personal issues, few have overcome these but some have.
by littleboxes on May 19, 2010 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions
How doesn't attitude factor into upside?
Maturity? The willingness to work hard? Fortitude? Those things don’t factor into upside?
those would be downside
Combine upside and downside to get a reasonable projection.
by Pedro Munoz is fast on May 20, 2010 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Well, I was just speaking in general terms
not about Cousins, specifically. But the fact that you agree that all of those things are downsides for Cousins tells me all that I need to know about whether I should draft him or not.
As Pedro points out
Upside is his ability to get over those factors. So they would be non-factors in his upside discussion.
Obviously they are factors in his downside as well, but they are for everyone. You just have to weigh how much of a factor they are and not write him off without doing so, as some around here would have us do :)
he will not be shaq
or Dwight Howard, but he could be a current top 25 player (by current I mean in a current NBA Season). He will not be a top 25 period talent. Emphasis on could though.
Always have to throw out the caveat.
A Darko Fan since 2010!
by TheEvilProfessor on May 20, 2010 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions
The difference is
that statement was a hyperbole. You are actually advocating writing him off and not taking him. I’m saying Cousins is a beast and could be a great player in this league and we have to do our hw on him to find out if he can overcome his issues. Can he get over it enough to carry said beasthood to the next level? As far as I have heard, his issues haven’t affected his performance except for maybe boosting it.
The exact statement was a hyperbole
but the opinions floating around here certain aren’t intended to be. I am certainly advocating writing him off and not taking him. Definitely. If there’s even a 50/50 chance that Cousins has serious attitude issues, that’s all I need to here. Done.
If I’m building the foundation for a house, I’m not going to use a product that has a chance of going bad on me at some point down the line and could end up wrecking the entire place. The Wolves are building the foundation for what is supposed to be a championship-contending team. I want a solid foundation without question marks about serious character issues like work ethic, maturity and anger.
That's a strange
strange analogy. Fortunately for us, basketball players get moved and changed a lot more than housing foundations. And one player doesn’t constitute a houses foundation even if that were true. Sticking with this analogy, the fans are the foundation.. and if ten bricks in the foundation don’t like a room in the house because there’s a chance that it might not be functional or because it might not serve the purpose that it was orginally meant to serve, then you can always remodel the room. Yes, it’s a significant cost, but it’s a lot better than just putting a porta-potty in a room with a bucket of water and a bar of soap and calling it the bathroom.
Agnosticism is often the only honest response to a situation
I’m rather agnostic about the character issues; I don’t feel like I know enough about it to judge.
So you might be a “weak” agnostic, in the sense that you think it would be possible to know enough to make a judgment.
Whereas I would be something of a “strong” agnostic, thinking as I do that fans basically have almost no shot of knowing enough about someone to make that sort of decision. For that matter the kid is a kid, he’s a year out of high school, and I’m not sure anyone can really look into someone else’s character to that extent at that age….
At that point we have to decide whether to have faith in the people who do make that decision and take those risks.
That’s about where we sit, on Cousins. It’s a question of doctrine, really.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
Interesting post
I’m actually with you; I don’t really think there’s any way for a fan to know enough about someone to make this sort of determination.
I only partly agree with the idea that he’s too young for anyone to make judgments about his character. While it isn’t fair to permanently peg someone at age 19-20, I’m also old enough to have come to the conclusion that in MOST cases, people are who they are. Yes, people change, and SOME change in more than just degree, but for the most part, basic traits do not go away, or flip 180.
So there are a couple of questions that the FO has to answer: first, what is the nature of his character? Are there problems that might or will hinder his contribution to a winning basketball team? If there are or potentially are such problems, they then have to determine whether they think these problems are things that can be overcome, and whether it’s worth it to them to invest in overcoming them, which also means an investment of time—how long will it take to get him organized and playing in a way that helps you win?
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on May 20, 2010 7:58 AM CDT up reply actions
It's a huge mistake for an NBA franchise to think it has the ability to invest in overcoming personal problems
It just won’t be successful. It’s all about him.
Your post is spot on. I’m just answering that part of your question. I hope the wolves answer is that it’s impossible to for us as an organization to mold Cousins into a different a better person. It’s all on him. What is his driving force as an individual?
There is immaturity and there is mental illness. The odds of the former being managed and overcome is much greater than the latter. It sounds like psych evaluations are used in the NFL draft process, not sure I recall whether the NBA uses/allows this?
Answering my own question
it sounds like the NBA is much more limited by the CBA than the NFL in the psych testing you can do.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/frank_hughes/05/18/draft.camp/index.html
Oops. Yeah, that.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
I think that is one scenario where throwing a few punches is within the range of acceptable responses.
I hear
the B-Slap works quite well in that situation. More insulting, less aggressive and unruly.
A Darko Fan since 2010!
by TheEvilProfessor on May 20, 2010 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions
I understand how awful the question is
But it at least turned out to be less awful and random in context. I can see how Ireland would think of that question, since Bryant’s father was a pimp and he said his mother worked for his father, but it’s just not a question you should ask in that setting.
If they move down in the draft
I will not watch another Wolves game until they are a proven winner, how many years, I don’t know, but I won’t waste my time watching them again.
If they move down and get a legit starting player in the process (talking better than Brewer/Love), that would be acceptable, but I don’t see it happening.
If it's Cousins, who could be the Sam Mitchell to his KG?
Here would be some options: Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Brad Miller, Ben Wallace, Udonis Haslem, Jermaine O’Neal, Kurt Thomas, Etan Thomas. Whoever they’d get would have to be able to play as I subscribe to Ric Bucher’s “Vets can’t be leaders if they’re not good enough to play anymore” theory.
by pagingstanleyroberts on May 19, 2010 10:48 PM CDT reply actions
Z-bo had a different attitude problem
I never heard about his temper. I would hear about him being selfish and lazy, and that he was a locker-room cancer. One could see that borne out in the way he played. I think that’s more of a Michael Beasley comparison, where he’s really talented but has a hard time being serious about his sport and contributing in a meaningful way.
DeMarcus is different in that his problems seem to be related to his anger issues, particularly when he’s being provoked by intentionally rough play. I see a stronger comparison to Rasheed Wallace, whom can change games on a strong-character team but still has on-court outbursts that can hinder his team and himself.
I should also note that we added a known malcontent with anger issues on our team this year, and he seemed to really warm to our team in the short time he was with us. I know that Darko’s situation was different because he was weary of the league and because he’s older and seasoned, but I still think it deserves mentioning that he never blew up once during a game and that he enjoyed his experience here. Who’s to say that DeMarcus won’t be the same way?
Anger issues?
I haven’t read about what these anger issues are based on, but if the kid has the ability, there is a good chance he can grow out of them. With some good guidance, maybe that anger can become intensity? There was another guy who was pretty intense who played for you guys… used to punch team mates and stuff… who was he again? Pretty good player as I recall. ;-)
by Celticsbloke on May 19, 2010 11:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Somehow I knew where you were coming from
before seeing your handle, there.
(Actually, KG came into the league with a lot more…. Excitement and enthusiasm than anger. He’s gotten a lot more…. sullen? Over the years. Not a change I liked watching, so much.)
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
draft express says
Whichever franchise drafts him will likely need to live with his limitations on this [the defensive] end of the floor and commit to being more of a half-court oriented team, as it’s unlikely that Cousins will get much lighter on his feet over the next few years.
While Cousins is without a doubt a precocious talent with the type of physical tools and scoring instincts that you rarely see at the college level, there are many question marks revolving around whether he has the intangibles needed to reach his extremely high potential. His body language and overall temperament on the floor is often very poor, looking somewhat lazy and disinterested and at times downright selfish. He’s clearly not the smartest guy you’ll find on or off the court, and he already tends to react very poorly to different situations on the floor and lose his temper in concerning fashion.
Is draft express an unassailable source? No. But Cousins does share some of Z-Bo’s characteristics. And he may fit best on a half-court team, which is exactly what the wolves don’t want. Perhaps he fits like Al fits, as the half-court option on a running team.
by littleboxes on May 20, 2010 12:00 AM CDT up reply actions
ouch!
I haven’t read his Draft Express profile yet. Didn’t realise it was that harsh! Clearly some work to do find out if he’s worth the risk then.
by Celticsbloke on May 20, 2010 12:03 AM CDT up reply actions
That's quite a small portion
from quite a few write ups. They give him some pretty high praise on DX. And of note, Jonathon Givony, the guy who most likely wrote that write up, told Kahn to take Cousins 4th.
by Mplax on May 20, 2010 12:49 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
True, DX says he's a great player
but with serious red flags. Givony doesn’t have to try to resurrect this sad franchise.
I keep coming back to Beasley. He’s not the best comparison because he’s a bit of a tweener. But he’s another guy who had amazing stats in college but with personal red flags. Nothing real serious though, just questions about his attitude and work ethic. Miami almost passed on him because of it. I bet they wish they did pass on him.
Every year teams get fooled by guys with great potential but with issues about work ethic or personality. My gut feeling is that 90% of the time, these issues end up trumping the talent. The wolves need to decide whether or not Cousins is in the 10% or in the 90%.
Correct
They need as close to a sure thing (Turner) in this draft as possible. They have plenty of assets, they don’t need to take on risk, at least not with the first pick. If they find a way to get another top 5 pick, take a chance with that one.
I'd like to get Haslem.
He’s always been a good, steady player and he’s still young enough to contribute for years.
by princelyfrank on May 20, 2010 12:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, but position.
I like him too, and he’d be a good Sam Mitchell type, but another PF?
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
Especially one who's even smaller and is unathletic
He’s a great player, and David Thorpe thinks the world of his BBIQ. But not really a guy we need or that I’d find as a sweetener in any deal.
The Heat LOVE him
I’ve heard a bunch of times how high Riley thinks of him (not to mention D-Wade) and he’s a South Florida guy, won a championship there…I can’t imagine he’d be available to the Wolves for a reasonable price. Maybe though. Might be a good influence on Love, too (if he were still here in the hypothetical situation).
Chins up Wolves fans!
Hey guys, bad luck on missing #1, but I think there’s hope for a good team not far into the future. You have plenty of capspace and the closest thing you have to a ‘bad contract’ is probably Sessions (ie, nothing to worry about). Both Jefferson and Love are valuable and either one could be traded for good value if they really can’t play together. Brewer strikes me as a good player who would be appreciated much more if he wasn’t forced to be your #1 wing scorer.
Although there are some interesting wing prospects you guys could consider, this draft strikes me as the perfect opportunity to actually get the right player to complement Big Al. The guy is a dominant low post scorer, but clearly he is not cut out to be the defensive presence you need and he can at times be exposed by the really mobile, athletic bigs that are becoming more common these days. So why not draft one of these really athletic bigs who can defend the rim? Either Favors or Cousins are looking like they will fit that bill and both have offensive potential as well. Failing that, there are guys like Udoh, Monroe, Whiteside. Plenty to choose from.
Then you can use some combo of your lower picks and/ or Love or even Flynn to get a decent wing scorer – rookie or otherwise – to complement Brewer (you can afford to give up Flynn, because you have Sessions to hold down the position and hopefully Rubio to replace him in a couple of years).
Of course, Kahn could persist with his dumb@ss uptempo idea, trade Jefferson and stick with the more limited Love, but hopefully he looks at teams like the Celtics and Lakers, for whom run and gun offence is merely one option, not the entire focus of the offence!
Could it be that Kahn goes crazy, and decides:
Ok, i drafted 3 pgs last year, traded one, but I have no wings. Let’s rinse and repeat, draft wings with the #4, #16, #23, etc etc.
Hope this doesn’t happen to you guys, but given his (albeit brief) draft history, you can’t rule it out.
Although given the wing depth in this draft, it could work out in a totally nutso way.
Name those three PGs
when one of them is Lawson, remember that he drafted Lawson at Denver’s request.
When that doesn’t work and your next bet is Calathes, remember that Dallas picked him with our pick.
Now realize that we had 6 picks last year. Of those 6 picks, we now have 2 PGs.
Now thank the national media for being so obnoxious and selling that dribble as fact just so they could rip on a small market team that has been in the crapper since KG left town. Kicking us while we’re down… not cool :)
Might I also add
that 2 out of those 6 picks were PGs in a PG heavy draft when we didn’t have a PG that was going to be around long term. If anything he should have taken another one or kept another one.
That's exactly what I said.
He drafted Flynn/Rubio/Lawson, and traded Lawson.
by premthegrem on May 20, 2010 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions
The distinguishing point is that
the trades were in place before the picks were made. Kahn didn’t go, Gee, I want ANOTHER PG, take Lawson, and then decide to trade him.
He agreed upon a trade with Denver, then said “Who do you want us to pick for you?” They picked Lawson. Lawson has never, ever, in any way been a Timberwolf.
Same song, second verse, with Calathes.
I looked ahead to the open road, thought about the people and what they know, and wrote a book called "People Don't Know Nothin!"
You're right, Kahn did only pick two pg's.
But you have to understand, it was funny to see Minnesota taking 3 pgs with the top 3 picks. The draft guys kept saying “another pg???” every time Kahn took another pg. Since the trade to Denver wasn’t announced until AFTER Lawson was actually selected, it looked like Kahn had taken 3 pgs with his top 3 picks. That has kind of turned into his “legacy”, even though it isn’t fair to him. It doesn’t help that Flynn wasn’t as good as Evans/Jennings/Curry/Collison/Lawson, and that Rubio still has yet to show interest in the Wolves.
Believe me
I said “ANOTHER PG??” many times that night. I’m not discounting how ridiculous it seemed at the time.
I’m just tired of knowledgeable, connected people like Ford and Simmons beating a dead horse, and encouraging the rest of the less connected world to also beat this dead horse, when all along the horse was actually a pig.
Poor pig.
I looked ahead to the open road, thought about the people and what they know, and wrote a book called "People Don't Know Nothin!"
Poor bastard pig.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
Sounds like
we should be mocking the “draft guys” instead of Kahn then…
PoorDick, not to steal your thunder...
but I would be interested in seeing a Let’s Settle This: How Much Would You Give Up to Move Up for Turner? post.
You know, if you’re bored or something.
I have no thunder to steal.
Unless of course you are referring to my Thunder Down Under. Which you cannot have.
That’s a great idea, though. If you like, gimme some options, or feel free to make your own. Eric in Madison hasn’t filed my application for registering Let’s Settle This as a protected mark, so it belongs to the Community (for the time being until it’s registered after which people will owe me four cents every time they say or write or think or see the words “Let’s Settle This”).
Another option should have been added
The #4 plus “other assets”. Other assets meaning most likely player(s). If we had to move up I would like to package a player or 2 and get #2 in return and maybe a player or 2 in return. Keep the 16 and 23 and parlay them into a top 10 pick or just stay at 16 and 23 and get lucky….
Your 2010 Wolves Starters: Wall, J. Anderson, Granger, Al, Whiteside
I am getting very comfortable with the idea of Cousins @ 4.
Turner would be a great fit with our existing roster makeup and looks like he will be a great player. But there are no sure things in the draft. It’s possible Cousins (or Favors) end up being as good or better, and it’s tough to think that you might be trading additional assets for a player who may/may not be better. If they can get Cousins to hit the gym and build himself up like anything approaching Shaq or Dwight Howard, he could be scary.
Cousins @ 4, then trade Al for a wing like Iguodala or Deng. Cousins and Love should be a good fit in the frontcourt, and #’s 16 and 23 can be used to find wings.
I can live with a lot of scenarios including staying it 4. It’s very possible Turner falls to 4 anyways but if he doesn’t Cousins or Favors will be as good if not better. Yes Turner fits a “need” better (dynamic wing), but Cousins or Favors are just as good if not better prospects at their positions. And we’re in no position to try to fill needs. I suppose I could live with Iggy or Deng for Jefferson if we got Cousins (and only if). I’d be interested in taking Alabi at #23 in that scenario as well just to take a flyer on him. Then take the best wing at #16 (George, Anderson, Henry, James).
Your 2010 Wolves Starters: Wall, J. Anderson, Granger, Al, Whiteside
Draft Cousins at #4
and leverage Philly’s need of getting rid of Iguodala after drafting Turner. Then, at #16 pick a versatile SF like George.
Lineup:
PG Flynn / Sessions — Rubio in a year or two
SG Iguodala / Ellington
SF George / Brewer
PF Jefferson / Love?
C Cousins / Darko? / Pekovic?
Not exactly sure what it would take to get Iguodala, but the wolves definitely have the assets to do something.
That really is an outstanding combo
at the 2 and 3 position. Assuming George pans out and is the shooter they say he is, you’ve got an athletic shooter with length starting at SF and a slasher scorer at SG. Then you have shooting and defense at the bench positions as well in Ellington and Brewer. Heck this doesn’t even include any free agents. Oh ya how would you nab Iggy? It’d have to be Jefferson I would think in a trade….
Your 2010 Wolves Starters: Wall, J. Anderson, Granger, Al, Whiteside
Minnesota gets:
Andre Igoudala
Detroit’s Pick
Philly gets:
Andrei Kirilenko
Utah Pick
Utah gets:
Tayshaun Prince
Ryan Gomes
Detroit:
Al Jefferson
by AnotherDraftPickBitesTheDust on May 20, 2010 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions
We’d also get Jason Smith from the Sixers to make the trade work financially.
by AnotherDraftPickBitesTheDust on May 20, 2010 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Would giving Philly the Charlotte pick make a difference?
by AnotherDraftPickBitesTheDust on May 20, 2010 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions
for me the whole thing is to hang on to that pick and get a young wing….
Your 2010 Wolves Starters: Wall, J. Anderson, Granger, Al, Whiteside
We’d have the Detroit pick though too, which could be used on a guy like Aminu.
by AnotherDraftPickBitesTheDust on May 20, 2010 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions
why would utah ever do this???
…I don’t see this working at all.
They’d have more room to sign Boozer, they can release Gomes and his $4M salary, while having to take on a player like Prince who makes $7M less than Kirilenko.
by AnotherDraftPickBitesTheDust on May 20, 2010 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions
I’d say Prince has more value to the Jazz than Kirilenko in that the Jazz need a SF much more than a PF, Kirilenko should never have been used at SF, his career has went down hill since he was forced to switch positions when they acquired Boozer. he doesn’t have the skill set or quickness to be as effective as a SF than he would be as a PF. He’s still dece’ as a SF, better than any of ours, but I still believe he’d still be much more effective as a PF. Plus, the Jazz cut $7M in salary off their pay role, do you not realize the Jazz are over the cap and want Boozer back?
by AnotherDraftPickBitesTheDust on May 20, 2010 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Flynn/Sessions
Igoudala/Ellington
George/Brewer
Love/Udoh
Cousins/Smith/Hollins
With plenty of cap room still.
by AnotherDraftPickBitesTheDust on May 20, 2010 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions
Didn’t mean Utah’s Top Ten Pick, I meant our 23rd Pick, Utah’s original pick.
Minnesota:
Iggy
7th Pick
Philly:
AK 47
23rd Pick
Utah:
Tayshaun Prince
Gomes
Detroit:
Al Jefferson
by AnotherDraftPickBitesTheDust on May 20, 2010 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Would giving Philly the 16th Pick make this trade work?
by AnotherDraftPickBitesTheDust on May 20, 2010 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions
sign me up....
and I’d trade Pek for a first rounder in 2011 or 2012.
by TWolvesFanInLA on May 20, 2010 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Why does Philly need to get rid of Iguodala? He’s got the least bad of their big contracts, and if they think Turner can develop a three-point shot, why not try to play them together?
Problem is “develop a 3 point shot”, plus Kirilenko’s contract is only for next year, they cut almost four years worth of paying a guy $12M a year, they would be absoutely attrocious from 3 next year with Turner and Iggy, they need a guy at the 3 that can stroke it, like Wes Johnson, if they were to take Turner. The only way they get rid of Brand is if they give up the 2nd pick too, his contract is more off limits than even Arenas’.
by AnotherDraftPickBitesTheDust on May 20, 2010 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Three-point shooting would be a potential weakness, but if you’re the Sixers, moving Iguodala would be the last resort. The Sixers aren’t a good three-point shooting team today, and sliding Turner in would be a nice upgrade in other areas. Iguodala is the youngest and best of their big contracts. There are other ways to address three-point shooting.
plus if Collins becomes their coach
he prefers vets to rookies. So less chance of moving Iggy. Also less chance of selecting Turner.
A Darko Fan since 2010!
by TheEvilProfessor on May 20, 2010 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Officially rooting for Collins
to become Philly’s head coach!
Wonder then if Philly would go for:
Philly gets Big Al and #4
Wolves get Brand and #2.
I might do that
but Brand’s contract is truly terrible. I wonder if there doesn’t have to be another piece to that. Like Hollins. :)
Yeah, they have to take Hollins off our hands. Then we can nab Seraphin to replace hollins and have another functional player on the bench.
A Darko Fan since 2010!
by TheEvilProfessor on May 20, 2010 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Could definitely include Hollins
that would pretty much even up the salaries. I suppose they could get Philly to kick in the $3 million max to soften Brand’s contract. Not sure how NBA rules work, but maybe they could even do a separate trade where Philly takes the Wolves late 2nd rounder for $3 million.
In a weird way, it helps the Wolves not just get Turner, but it puts Love back as starting PF and gives him some incentive to bust his butt this summer. What interests me in this deal is the Wolves get better with Turner, and maybe even Love, but still have about $15 million in cap space.
Philly would consider the deal because they probably figure worst case they get Cousins or Wes Johnson, and with Jefferson and the Eastern Conference, they can make the playoffs next season. If Philly takes Turner and does nothing else, they are probably still several years from the playoffs, and Iggy isn’t getting any younger.
Then they’d need shooters at the 4 and 5.
by AnotherDraftPickBitesTheDust on May 20, 2010 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions
I get the feeling from reading several articles on the fact that Igoudala is overpaid for what he provides. Why would they not try to move him, especially with the fact that they not only would have Kirilenko coming off the books next year in this scenario, but also Dalembert, that’s potentially almost $30M coming off the books, especially good when the new CBA takes in effect.
by AnotherDraftPickBitesTheDust on May 20, 2010 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions
because if Collins becomes their coach
there is no way he wants a rookie SG. He values experience…which means Iggy.
A Darko Fan since 2010!
by TheEvilProfessor on May 20, 2010 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Let's
Assume Cousins is availabale at 4. Take him. Then see if anyone will accept a package so we can move up to pick Johnosn.
What do you guys think of this?
We take Cousins with the 4th pick – he’s big, fairly athletic and has great skill. As we all know, you need to have size to compete in the Western Conference.
We trade K-Love and the 23rd pick to the Kings for #5, draft Wes Johnson. I know people are down on him, but the dude can shoot and he’s extremely athletic. He’ll also be able to space the floor with his shooting, and contrary to popular believe, he can slash.
With the 16th pick, we either take James Anderson or trade the pick to Portland for Rudy Fernandez. Both have legit SG size and they can shoot. With Wes Johnson, I’d be more inclined to take Rudy because I believe he brings more energy and is a better defender (plus, it’ll be nice to have a fellow Spaniard for Rubio to pair up with).
If this happened, it would give us a great front line with a lot of skill and size, which we need. We’d pick up two legit shooters in Johnson and Fernandez/Anderson. They space the floor and make it easier on Cousins and Al. The only significant piece we’d be giving up would be K-Love (who is great but extremely undersized). This way we’d be able to trot out a big combo of Cousins and Al to matchup with contenders in the West. Not to mention, we’d have Pek (6-11) off the bench. I know Darko wants to play here, but only if he starts. When did we start giving into the demands of one of the biggest busts in NBA history? If he doesn’t wanna come off the bench, then f*ck him.
Here is my proposed lineup:
C – Cousins/Pekovic
PF – Al/Pekovic
SF – W. Johnson/Brewer
SG – (Fernandez or Anderson)/Ellington
PG – Flynn/Sessions
This lineup doesn’t even include a solid role player or two that we could nab in free agency. The bench is deep with Sessions, Ellington, Brewer and Pekovic. We need to come to grips with the fact that K-Love is a bench player (super sub) and he’s not content with that. He’ll be a pain in the ass if we don’t start him and he will likely sign elsewhere when his contract is up. After next year, we can trade Sessions for a role player and bring Rubio in to start with Flynn (instant offense) off the bench.
I think this would work, what do you guys think?
That move would
set up T-Wolfing for next season.
T-Wolfing: Tanking a season in hopes of improving lottery position, despite knowing you draft position will inevitable fall.
I had noticed the inception of this definition
At the time, I was thinking “shore it up a bit?”
Wolfing, or perhaps Woofing?
Kinda like whiffing, but specialized for the timberpuppies.
I looked ahead to the open road, thought about the people and what they know, and wrote a book called "People Don't Know Nothin!"
To the best of my knowledge
I originated the term to match another poster’s description of Wolve’s lottery night this year. I hope I never have to use the word again, at least as far as the Wolves are concerned. I’ll gladly apply to another team if necessary.
Glad Twolfing has started circulating! It's a great term
and far less unwieldy than the original, which I must confess to having forgotten already.
"Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have." Steven Wright
if a good sf prospect like aminu doesn't fall to the clippers at #8
i think they’d look to trade that pick. they already have a lot of frontline depth, and this is a big man heavy draft. they’d like to upgrade their wings.
would they take the wolves’ later 1st round picks for the #8? take xavier henry at #8.
love is a good fit for the triangle. it’s jefferson that needs to go; forget darko. i’d take a package of expiring contracts, a solid role player, and multiple 1st rounders for al. maybe a team with capspace would be willing to absorb jefferson, and even throw in a promising prospect.
follow the laker model. love has the potential to be a pau gasol type playmaker. flank him with a true center like cousins and a skilled weakside shotblocker with good hands. how about kevin seraphin?
"I've hacked into your brain. You're throwing a party and no one's showing up."
or trade for alex ajinca
"I've hacked into your brain. You're throwing a party and no one's showing up."
Because with Anderson in that lineup
6 of our main rotation players would either be rookies or have one year of playing experience. One of those players would be Cousins, who already has work ethic/attitude problems. We’d have to depend on Al more than ever to carry us. I don’t think that team wins very many games.
Love is a better compliment to Cousins than Al
Al and Cousins are too similar in what they do offensively. Better to keep Love and get rid of Al.
Agree with this.
If we’re running the triangle, it seems like Cousins could be that Bynum type player, and Love has the skills to play the high post (albeit at several notches below Gasol), so those could work together. Cousins and Al, not so much.
Some notes from the combine
from DraftExpress
Cousins got a “good vibe” from Minnesota and thinks they will pick him if available at 4
He also looks like he lost weight (DX observation, not mine).
Wes Johnson “an impressive interview”
Top 4 guys being mentioned by NBA teams as looking good in the Combine today: Eric Bledsoe, Paul George, Gordon Hayward, Solomon Alabi.
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on May 20, 2010 1:49 PM CDT reply actions
Jim Boeheim must teach those Syracuse
guys how to interview. Wolves could be seeing Orange every draft for the next decade…ugh!
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