DeMarcus Cousins says he got "a really good vibe" from Minnesota today and that he thinks they would pick him if he were there at 4.
From Jonathan Givony's Twitter page.
about 2 years ago
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This is
exactly the type of info you want floating around pre-draft. It adds just an ounce of leverage to our fourth spot if their are teams behind us who were also impressed with DMC and may now want to draft him.
+1
Absolutely…Kahn may not have the best eye for talent, but I think he knows how to play the spin game.
BTW, Chad Ford was on ESPN podcast today and he’s convinced Kahn will do whatever it takes to move up and get Turner. And he doesn’t think there’s any chance we’re adding 3 rookies to our roster next year.
by TWolvesFanInLA on May 20, 2010 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree that this is partially spin, however from the little college basketball I watched last year, Cousins is good enough that he needs to be seriously considered if available. I think most of this site has fallen so hard for Evan Turner that they’re not open to anything else and acquiring him could very well be outside of a reasonable price range. Face, we need a center and if the FO does their job and decides that the maturity issues aren’t serious, or he’s addressing them, then we need to take Cousins with our fourth pick.
I don't think
we will put 3 rooks on the roster, either. If Run DMC is the real deal, I’m okay with the pick. He and Rubio could make a nice inside/outside pairing. Also as Barkley said the other night, teams should be built from the inside out. Still have enough assets to get a wing. By going after Turner, I’m just concerned DK will have to burn a lot of capital.
I think Cousins
is going to end up being the better pro than Evan Turner. But Evan Turner will be on more winning teams. I have no idea why I think this. And I could easily be wrong on both accounts.
That said, I think we should take Cousins at 4 and be happy with it. The asking price for Turner is going to be far too high. I wouldn’t take on Brand and Turner for Cousins, though I would gladly take on Brand and Turner for cap space and another small asset…. Brand’s contract doesn’t deserve consideration sent back.
I also think we should draft 3 rookies. But the third should be Seraphin and he should stay in France for a year and help alleviate the pain of losing the Clipper pick next year or the year after (Along with Rubio).
What if the 3 rookies were Cousins, Anderson, and George? That’s out there on a couple recent mocks.
I'd be ok with it
but it would definitely take some effort to make it work. That’s another reason I really like Seraphin. High potential, already a good defender, can develop in France on someone else’s dime for another year, good fit for our athletic 4/5 if we get Cousins. mmmmm, Seraphin.
Ya
Seraphin is the main reason why I don’t want to part with 16 AND 23. He seems like as good a flex 4/5 player as we’re going to get.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
Would you consider taking Seraphin at 16 and Wesley Johnson at 4?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
No
I wouldn’t. I don’t think you can stay at 4 and take Johnson. I would absolutely consider Seraphin at 16 depending on who else was available.
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on May 20, 2010 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Because DeMarcus Cousins is that good?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Curiosity
Why do you come to this conclusion?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
He's 23 and underwhelmed at Iowa State
Plus, for a team with 3 first round picks and in a draft loaded with 3s (especially in the mid-late first round), it doesn’t make any sense for the Wolves to take him.
by pagingstanleyroberts on May 21, 2010 1:50 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't understand this argument much.
Is transferring a bad thing given that Johnson has played well at Syracuse on a better team? Plus, why is age such an issue? I don’t get that either. But that’s me.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
The difference between the teams he's played for matters...
…because it indicates other things about his game (in this case, he can’t create his own shot and he isn’t a good ballhandler).
As for age, here’s the issue: he performed at roughly the same level as a 23-year-old as Cousins did at 19. It’s in no way a stretch to assume that Cousins will be better at 23 than Johnson is because players often get better up until age 27-29. Cousins has 8-10 years to become as good as he could, and Johnson (roughly the same ability level) has 4-6 years. That’s a huge difference in time.
by pagingstanleyroberts on May 21, 2010 3:16 AM CDT up reply actions
I was not referring in relation to Cousins. That's a slippery slope if you ask me, but that's just my opinion there. Evan Turner is older than Cousins so why not eliminate him? (I get the counter argument.)
I just meant in Johnson’s case, I don’t really understand why it’s a counter argument. I do get the not creating a shot argument and what not. But not much else.
As far as upside, Cousins has as much of it as anyone in this draft. If the Wolves decide to take him at 4, I will not be crying about it from a Kings perspective.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
cousins vs Turner
That actually is a good argument for Cousins over Turner, and one of the three teams above us might make it. If Cousins does measure out at 6’11", and does have the ridiculous 7’+ wingspan, I think it’s pretty likely someone above us takes Cousins and we’re looking at Turner vs Favors. (and I think you would agree that were Turner and Johnson the same age, you would take Turner)
… and if you’re hoping, there’s no way Cousins falls to 5.
by midlife crisis on May 21, 2010 8:07 AM CDT up reply actions
Please...
stop calling Wes a 23-year old, if the age argument is going to be made. He still is 22 and was 22 all season.
He'll be 23 on July 11th.
Turner will be 22 in October.
Cousins will be 20 in August.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
Right...
I’ve just read a lot of comments that say either Johnson is 23, or that he was 23 last season — neither of which is true. Obviously not a huge difference, but if we’re attacking the prospect for his age, might as well get it right.
Ya, I'm partially at fault for that
I’m sorry. For whatever reason I completely reference-blanked on his age and kept saying he was 23 for just about every season of college ball he played. That was pretty poor on my part. I suppose it comes off akin to saying Jonny is a sub 6’ PG…meaning tiring.
The age question is a good one as it pertains to Turner, Wes, and the younger guys. I think the biggest difference between Wes and Turner and their ages is that Turner likely would’ve gone top 10 last year had he declared, and that he has produced on the court more consistently for longer. Perhaps Wes is a late bloomer (nothing wrong with that), but concerns about being a product of a system and regressing to the mean are legitimate questions for him (I think), in the same way that questions about Cousins’ maturity are legitimate. Doesn’t mean you don’t draft those guys, but it does mean you really need to do your homework.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
In addition to what PSR wrote
Defense. I don’t see his defense translating to a level that will make up for his offensive weaknesses. I think he will be better than most Syracuse products, I just don’t see him being good enough on defense to make him enough of a net positive to be considered a “star”
I watched people say the same thing about Donte Greene.
I’m willing to bet that Johnson has an even money shot at defending in the pro’s if he possesses lateral quickness and a desire to do so.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
And in addition to the other 2..
wing players who can’t create their own shots off the dribble aren’t good bets to become stars, and a non-star is not worth considering at 4th on a team so devoid of talent.
This is my concern about Johnson as well. And a perfectly valid argument as far as I'm concerned.
Drafting at 4 means you should get the BPA and getting the best player possible. A franchise player whoever is there.
I’m personally very scared of Cousins myself, and given how the Wolves roster is constructed, I don’t see Cousins succeeding over the next couple of seasons. But, if you think you can build your franchise around him I suppose you do that.
I do not envy David Kahn’s decision.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Cousins didn't scare everyone..
he would be a top 2 pick. He is a high risk high reward pick. If they have decided that they have to draft a 2/3 with their first pick, I hope they trade up and grab Turner or trade down and draft Johnson. I personally would roll the dice on Cousins – standing pat and drafting Johnson would be the worst case for me.
by Breaking Ankles on May 21, 2010 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions
i think this is the key..
….aspect of where the wolves stand: either take the risk with cousins or spend the assets for turner.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Standing pat for Johnson is not an option for me.
That’s passivity and failure. I would much rather either risk Cousins (or Favors) with all the roster complications attached thereto, or deal down for a comparable wing.
Wes Johnson just doesn’t have the characteristics of a #4 or #5 overall pick. He looks the part, but what, are we trying to corner the market on wings who can’t handle the ball? I don’t understand his higher value relative to the passel of mid-first wings.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
Agreed
Wolves have to make a risk-reward choice, not play it safe.
"Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have." Steven Wright
Have team mates ever gone 1 and 2 in a draft?
"Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have." Steven Wright
I recall 2 and 3 but not 1 and 2
Jay Williams 2
Mike Dunleavy Jr 3
I’d prefer to move Al for a more complementary front court player in Udoh, but I like both of Anderson and George quite a bit if we wind up going with a front court player with our first pick.
I’m fine with Cousins if we do our due diligence on him and if Turner is going to cost a king’s ransom. DMC is a hell of a talent if his size is as big as purported, you just have to make sure he’s just a little immature and has some issues with controlling his emotions (seems likely), not batshit crazy. I think he immediately gives us a true C, solving our front court issues and allowing us to move Al for wing help. From what I’ve heard and seen, he should be an upgrade defensively from Al, and he’s certainly better at playing off of others than Al ever will be. He and Ricky really could be a potent pick and roll duo.
Add Udoh to the mix and I think you’ve got a hell of a starting front court for the future. One that actually has above average size/length/athleticism for once.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
We'd probably all much prefer
to add one rookie wing and to sign the second in free agency or get him via trade.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
If we do end up drafting and keeping Cousins
can we play we call are team Run-DMC?
by Bad News Wolves on May 20, 2010 3:31 PM CDT reply actions
Had to pull him away from a fight?
Apparently not so good with the media (Cousins), though Wall said he’s coachable and works hard.
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on May 20, 2010 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, and called him a "big child" (or something to that effect)
But yeah, Wall did speak highly of him.
There have been rumors of this all spring
where people claim to have been at a party where Cousins was there, and he was getting into fights at the drop of a hat.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on May 20, 2010 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions
And how much of that was "echo chamber"
I can’t remember which users here have made the same “friend of a friend” comments. At least one, right?
When your potential draft pick is also a potential entry on Snopes.com, is that a good thing?
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
"Coachable"
This is a key question. There’s no doubt that Cousins can learn. Multiple scouting sources mention that he adapted and improved his game in the course of his freshman year.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
Givony apparently retracts what he said, with more to follow
Disregard my stuff about Orton’s comments on Cousins. Posting full HD video interview tonight or tomorrow. Exact quotes there.
As long as...
Cousins totally misread the situation with the Wolves, I have no problem with it.
Just listened to that BS Report with Jay Bilas while on the road, today. He said he has worked with Cousins, thinks he’s a pretty good kid deep down, but he could not draft him until the late first round. He said that he’s very immature and isn’t ready for a man’s league at this point.
He said mid-first round
The comp he made was to Josh Smith, who went mid-first and who Bilas implied should’ve gone a little higher than that in hindsight. He also didn’t mention that one difference why Smith went at that point was partially because he was coming straight from H.S. and Cousins isn’t. I listened to that podcast and got the sense that Bilas considered late lottery a good place to gamble on him.
by pagingstanleyroberts on May 20, 2010 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Bilas doesn’t like his second jumpability, or his tremendous upside potential.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
Jay Bilas knows very little.
I hate that Jay Bilas does virtually no Draft work for ESPN and then all the sudden he’s on the main stage when the lottery and the draft are on ESPN. I’d take what Bilas says with a grain of salt, he’s much more of a College Analysis than an NBA analysis. I know that doesn’t make much sense when you are talking about College players but he doesn’t seem to have much of a grasp on what translates to the NBA.
I’d take what Chad Ford and the Draft Express guys say much more seriously. This is what those guys do for a living. Bilas is a TV College Analysis for a pay check.
He has worked directly with Cousins
He does camps with the best high school prospects and works on the court with them. To me, that’s a pretty good perspective to listen to.
Come on, sports fans...
Cousins blowing his top could sell thousands of seats. For the record, Cousins is probably the most talented and skilled player on the board (when under control).
While the attention is being given to Orton’s comments, John Wall spoke well of DMC.
The franchise that drafted J.R. Rider should consider DMC.
Lets say..
Wall, Turner, and Favor go 1-2-3, respectfully.
Also, Cousins has done well with interviews and workouts.
What teams would then be in a position to try and trade for our #4? Or should I say, what teams would be at the forefront to trade for our pick?
Houston and Portland have already been rumored.
Check out Blazer’s Edge lately. Portland’s in a much better spot to deal with us; I’m not sure what Houston would really have to offer.
Not coincidentally, folks, those are two of the smartest organizations out there, as well as two that include significant “stats grinder” input on their decisions. Does this not set off warning bells for anyone?
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
by feral on May 21, 2010 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, that's something
that occurred to me too. “Hmmm . . . two organizations of which we are wildly envious are likely interested in having this player. Perhaps we should take another look.” Although, who knows. Maybe they both Love Love, and are trying to smokescreen Kahn into giving Kevin up for next to nothing.
No
They might be two of the smartest organizations out there, but they’re also two of the most narcissistic organizations out there (in love with what they do and how they do it and why they do it and don’t all the rest of you just really want to love us the way we love us?).
I am not concerned about Portland and Houston because ultimately you have to give value in order to get value. With Houston, what do they possibly have that we would want? They’re not giving us Yao, Brooks, Martin, or Ariza (not sure if I’d even want some of those guys). Scola? Please. Draft picks? Prospects? For the #4 pick? Please.
Portland is a much better trading partner, but the big question is whether Pritchard is still in charge or not. If he is then I feel quite confident that he is going to Pritch-slap himself out of any chance at the #4 pick. An offer of Dante Cunningham and Travis Diener isn’t going to cut it, dooshbag. I don’t know, maybe I’m being to hard on him…wait, nope. Nevermind.
Point is, if Portland really wants to deal then Kahn needs to weigh whether or not adding Rudy + one other player (Batum would be ideal, or Webster) is better value for us than Cousins (or Wes or Aminu or whoever). That both Houston and Portland are arguably salivating over Cousins doesn’t bother me at all. Hell, Houston in all it’s brilliance traded a player, a second round pick, AND cash to us for Gerald Green, and how did that work out? How great was Ariza last year? Nice of them to completely annihilate a player’s efficiency by making him jack up 13 3pa’s per game. Cousins’ career will be defined by his maturity and how well he gets along with his head coach. Right now he’s Z-Bo of the new millenium until proven otherwise. And Z-Bo is a great player – no one doubts that. He’s just never been what you’d call a ‘winning’ player until this year, his 9th year in the league.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
Outside of Oden, Portland has nothing I would want for the #4. They aren’t a good trading partner either. They have Roy, LMA, Oden and a bunch of role players. GIven that they aren’t trading the 3 I named, what’s in it for us?
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
Not that I would want LMA with our current lineup
but BEdgers were talking about trading him… should make some people around here happy just to hear that :)
Buckeyes are red, Wildcats are blue,
I wanted Evan Turner, But DeMarcus Cousins will do.
Oh, I don't know
We talked about this the other day. I really, really like Nic Batum, and if I could get him and Fernandez for the pick, I’d have to think about it.
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on May 21, 2010 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions
Apparently we aren't concerned because Portland is "narcissistic" despite making shrewd moves?
I’m puzzled by the lines of that argument, and by the general tendency of people to go hard in either direction with respect to Cousins….
You do definitely give value to get some, very true, and as I said Houston would be hard to figure out as a trade partner. It just makes me extremely leery of jumping to “Z-Bo 2.0” on Cousins when the Blazers of all teams are apparently interested. Remember Kevin Pritchard? Guy who dealt Randolph away to begin with? You think he’d maybe have some ideas about whether Cousins is a reprise of the same song?
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
I wonder what Al Jefferson and Kevin Love and Darko Milicic are thinking
right now? Not that we should care.
We probably should care a little
since we want them to be a little excited about their new teammates (or not totally turned off by them).
I thought the questions was what team are their new teammates on?
Bad wording, I know. But does anyone expect that all three will be back next year.
by Breaking Ankles on May 21, 2010 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, we know from Dan Patrick's show this morning about Love:
Love also talked about the possibility of the Timberwolves taking a power forward in the draft. Love mentioned DeMarcus Cousins and Derrick Favors. “If they did that, myself or Al Jefferson may have to look elsewhere,” Love said.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
It's probably true, but I'm not afraid of it.
If Al Jefferson had at any time in his career looked like a capable NBA defender, I would be a lot more heartbroken about potentially seeing him go.
Independently of the lottery results and this draft class, that pairing was defensive trouble. We had that question the second the Mayo trade went down.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
i'm afraid..
..that al is a bad defensive pairing no matter who you pair him with.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Good point.
I still think people have used Jefferson’s injury to bash him to support their views toward Love, but it’s true that Jefferson was never a good defender. It’s equally true that he was a better defender before his injury than he was after it.
But yeah, I’m not afraid of that, either. Love-Jefferson was a stupid idea to begin with and it’ll have to be abandoned at some point, regardless of how we draft this year. It already was abandoned (sort of) with the Darko acquisition and demotion of Love to the 6th Man spot.
DMC: The Return of the Great Advanced Stats lovefest
In this corner: Andy G, TimAllen and Oceanary (did I leave anyone out?).
And on the other side: myself, Mplax and the rest of the stattgeeks.
Unfortunately I believe DaKahn is a member of the former group and not the latter.
"We're all in this together"
great line from Harry Buttle, I mean Tuttle, in Terry Gilliam’s Brazil.
"Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have." Steven Wright
yeah...
I think Kahn is in our group, as well. Just going off his comments, he seems to be more interested in physical skills and character than per-minute production in college basketball. Which of those things leads to NBA success, I guess I’m not totally sure.
The issue isn't stats versus non-stats
Since I’ve been accused of blind loyalty to stats- I wouldn’t place them as the be all and end all source when it comes to evaluating draft prospects. Since so much of transition to the NBA is based on projection. Stats are more valuable in comparing players side by side in the present.
If the debate comes down to Physical Skills- you take RUN DMC hands down. 6’11 with a 7’6 wing span at his size. A 1st Team All American as a True Frosh. Since stats are a measure of production- Kahn would be a fool to ignore those. I don’t think he does- which is why it’s an oversimplification of his position.
The only way you could say no is on the basis of Character concerns. Here’s what we know
1. DMC has no criminal record.
2. He’s probably immature at 19 years of age.
The question comes down to what I can’t really answer in point 2 “How Immature is he?”
by Jose Cordoba on May 21, 2010 12:27 AM CDT up reply actions
For starters..
I think the answer to your question is, “Incredibly.” But, that’s just based on watching him during games, and reading/listening to various takes over the last year.
With regard to physical skills, the most I’ve been able to gather is that he has good footwork and good hands. When paired with the most athletic player in the game, he is effective at cleaning up missed shots after the defensive attention is drawn away. He can’t jump and he is slow, laterally. He is a poor shooter, and free throw shooter. He is not a good athlete, but does have a huge body. Compared to the best huge center of recent decades, Shaq, he is a couple inches shorter, quite a bit lighter, and yet much-less athletic. So, just to use Shaq as an upper limit of big center dominance, it’s fair to say that Cousins falls way short. The question is how short — rather than be a 29 & 13 guy, maybe he’ll be more like a 19 & 11 guy – something like that? That would be my guess, provided that he stays out of serious trouble and keeps up a decent work ethic.
That’s a valuable player, worthy of a high draft pick. But, again, the character concerns are the biggest ones, as you note. Plus, his redundancy on offense with Al Jefferson is obvious, so if we draft him, one of those two will get traded.
Most if not all of those various takes
are from basketball analysts who are just guessing what is being said. All of the various takes that are positive about him are coming from those who were close to him. Teammates as the most recent example. It’s easy to forget the good when there is something bad to be said. But the fact is that a lot of people have stood up for Cousins. You don’t do that for people you truly don’t like… especially in Wall’s case if he is competing for a draft position (albeit a pretty big landslide right now).
That’s not exactly fair to compare him to Shaq… Unless you are going to compare Wes Johnson to Lebron? Cousins definitely comes a lot closer :)
I agree
but I wouldn’t compare Wes to LeBron — Jason Richardson is probably a better comparison, only Wes has honed his perimeter jumper at a younger age. I don’t think Wes will be a star player, but I think his bust potential is pretty small (smaller than Cousins, at least for the team that drafts him) and he fits the Wolves needs infinitely better than Cousins does.
I guess I am just not high on Wes
probably because I think he will…. “bust” for a lack of a better term. Not that he will be a bad player and out of the league in a couple years, just that he will underperform his draft spot. A lot of his production came from being more athletic (especially on the defensive end with blocks and steals) than his opponents. He won’t have that same advantage in the pros and I just don’t see enough skill to overcome that for anything more than spot up shooting or shooting coming off of screens. When I watched him I was also not a fan of how he played off the ball. Just sat around and waited for it to come to him…. sounds like Big Al. When he got the ball and had to work for his points, I just saw him jack a ton of Kobe-esque shots (meaning bad ideas because a guy is in your face and there is undoubtedly a better shot that someone can get off…. even a 4 feet beyond the arc 3pt). Not a fan… so hopefully that explains where I am coming from when I don’t want Wes at 4 or even 5.
Buckeyes are red, Wildcats are blue,
I wanted Evan Turner, But DeMarcus Cousins will do.
My issue with Wes is that he’s 22 and hasn’t shown an advanced handle or ability to create shots. If he can’t do that by now, he’s not going to just pick it up out of the blue.
Comparing him to Turner for example, the odds are much much better that Turner either improves as a shooter or thrives without needing to be a 3pt shooter because of his multi-faceted game than Wes becomes a legit shot-creator on the wing.
A big wing that can handle is seriously underrated, and is exactly what we need.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
they cannot draft for fit
It has to be bpa.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on May 21, 2010 11:34 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
And yet, we always forget this, every danged year.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
The other thing about the "basic" stats--
weighing his points and rebounds against Favors and Johnson showed that Cousins hardly played compared to those two, but put up similar numbers. Now, maybe he’ll face a bigger leap in opposition quality and size at the pro center position, vs. what Favors and Johnson will get at the 3/4.
I think the Wolves should try to get Turner, but not at all costs. Otherwise, they wait at the 4 and hope Cousins falls into their laps (ouch!). It would indeed be ironic if the Wolves chronic bad luck in the lottery forced them to take a once-every-ten-years player.
How...
did we lose you, PD? I thought you were a card-carrying member of the Anti-Cousins Movement. I’m disappointed.
But we're desperate for an actual center
If Darko gets us excited, it’s not a shock that a real center in the draft (even if he turned out to be “just” an 18 and 10 player) is going to make character issues irrelevant. Besides, if the Vikings are about 50/50 taking bad character guys, maybe the wolves can be the same and we’re overdue for winning that bet (just like we’re overdue for the lottery)
by midlife crisis on May 21, 2010 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions
The Vikings comparison I think of is Derrick Alexander/Warren Sapp. Sapp had “character concerns” so they went safe and took Alexander from FSU, despite the talent disparity being obvious. Didn’t work out well.
That said, if memory serves me every year in the draft the top 4-6 picks do not stay the way they were the night of the lotto. If Cousins’ reputation issues are somewhat debunked by interviews and workouts, it might be Turner or more likely Favors at 4.
I was thinking of bad character guys they took
Like Moss, Percy Harvin, Dwayne Rudd and of course, Onterrio Smith. I think after Sapp/Alexander they decided to overlook some (most) character issues.
by midlife crisis on May 21, 2010 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions
They did well for themselves in that aspect
The only real bust was Dimitrius Underwood, and all of those guys were taken with 20th or later picks. In that sense, I think some have a point: the Vikings were a playoff team already when they took these types of players later in the first round, so their level of risk is much lower than the Wolves’ is. I’d still take Cousins over Johnson, though.
by pagingstanleyroberts on May 22, 2010 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions
It's not that I'm overly thrilled by the guy.
The character concerns are legitimate (how often do these things raise up to this level?), but are also the reason the Wolves might have a shot at a unique talent. I also worry about him being a younger, cheaper, crabbier, crazier Al Jefferson. I think if Kahn’s unable to move Al or Love, any leverage Kahn has will be lost after drafting Cousins (although Kahn will say at the moment he picks him “I think we have a young talented center who can play with either Kevin or Al.”).
It’s more that I’m so fearful of Less Johnson being the safe/need pick, and I don’t believe Johnson will be any improvement over Brewer at the wing. So, I’m Team Turner from the get-go, but I think Cousins is the next-best, and most-realistic option.
I guess that's fair...
I’m not thrilled about Cousins or Johnson, so the fit and character issues push me in favor of Johnson. I think Wes will wow a few people at the workouts… 6’7" with his athleticism projects pretty well for the NBA… at least if he weren’t the ripe old age of 22!
Also, there are two basic, indisputable facts that every Wolves fan should consider when we end up with Johnson instead of Turner:
1) Johnson is more athletic;
2) Johnson is a better shooter.
I’d way rather have Turner, but those two facts are worth noting since shooting and athleticism are sort of important in NBA basketball at the wing position.
Does anyone else think
that part of the reluctance in drafting Cousins is because he doesn’t fit the system we’re trying to run? Or do we really believe that he’ll fit the system?
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
by biggity2bit on May 21, 2010 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions
It would seem legitimate
At least some reports indicate he’d be better in a half-court offense.
by pagingstanleyroberts on May 22, 2010 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not altogether sure I'm willing to buy either of these propositions
given the evidence on hand.
I’ll concede that Johnson is a better 3 point shooter. Whether he’s a better shooter of 2 pointers that he’s likely to get in actual basketball games is not clear.
And I don’t know that he’s more athletic. I guess that depends on what we consider athletic ability to be. I suspect he can probably jump a little higher (though I really don’t know).
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on May 21, 2010 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions
I'll rephrase, then:
1) Johnson jumps higher than Evan Turner does. He gets off the floor quicker. He runs faster.
2) Johnson makes perimeter jumpshots at a higher rate than Turner does. He has better form and more arch on his jumpshot. He has more range on his jumpshot. He elevates higher on his jumpshot.
Early report from the Combine
Turner’s no-step vertical was 34.5", John Wall was 30". The highest was Jordan Crawford (36); at least the highest in that group; I don’t think everyone has gone.
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on May 21, 2010 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions
29.5
For his standing vert. 35 was his max (running start) vertical. Waiting for those numbers from today still.
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on May 21, 2010 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh, thanks..
That makes more sense. Still, 35" seems high for Love — still wondering how he pulled that off.
Yeah
I don’t know how much these measurements really tell us about how they are able to translate that ability to the court.
Still, it’s good to at least see a baseline; for the majority of guys, there must be a sort of floor below which they just aren’t going to be able to play.
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on May 21, 2010 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions
That one still boggles me. I’m an athletic 165lber with what I would consider well above average hops for a white dude, and I think it could MAYBE graze 35" at full speed on a good day. To think that 270 lb Kevin Love can jump as high as I can perplexes me to no end.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
34.5" is damn good for no-step. It’s not uncommon to see a huge difference between no-step and max vert, i.e. like Wall going 30" no-step when I bet his max will be in the 37-40 range. Just watch.
I also bet Turner’s metrics are better than previously anticipated.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
Kahn's new lineup
I think we can have a functional “big” lineup with Darko, Cousins and Al being the front court and Love sliding over to SG where he will cause some real matchup problems.
by midlife crisis on May 21, 2010 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions
That would be the slowest team in history
You couldn’t play more than 3 of those guys at a time
I was joking
Though I remember the old old detroit pistons put out a joke lineup that had three 7 footers, Dennis Rodman and a PG during a game. They couldn’t dribble or shoot and never got a shot off.
by midlife crisis on May 21, 2010 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Sounds like the Timberwolves
Omitting 7-footers and Rodman
BetterLaettner
by BetterLaettnerThanRider on May 21, 2010 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Personally...
Id like to see us draft cousins, sign darko, Also make a run at joe johnson, and trade Big Al possibly for a solid SF line-up in a couple of years would be solid
PG-Rubio
SG-Johnson
SF-(TRADE)
PF-Demarcuc Cousins
C-Darko
joe johnson..
…cost himself a lot of money with this post season. about as much as amar’e is costing himself right now against the lakers.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Yeah
as much as I like the idea of Johnson and what he brings to the table with Rubio, I think we would be overpaying for what he actually brings to the table. We need an athletic guy who can shoot the 3… He is that, but can’t we get that and better defense for less than the max contract it would take for us to get him away from a better team? I just think his abilities would be underutilized in our system… Not taking anything away from him the player, just think he isn’t worth the value.
Johnson is a really nice player, but has only had 1 GREAT year (and he played fewer than 60 games that season), and always drops off in the Playoffs.
And at 29, his next team is going to be paying for the tail end of his career.
i don't like jj
he doesn’t attack the basket, he take 18+ attempt to get 18ppg
steve aschburner..
…was on kfan the other day and hit the nail on the head about the guy: he has the knicks written all over him.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on May 20, 2010 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
didn't JJ already play for D'Antoni
in PHO in the early 2000’s? How was their relationship?
A Darko Fan since 2010!
by TheEvilProfessor on May 21, 2010 7:06 AM CDT up reply actions
yeah...
..he was there. don’t know about their relationship.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
I am suprised none of us have really used
that information explicitly in debating where each player will likely end up in FA. I would have to think this historical relationship would be important one way or the other. I think NY will offer JJ significantly more money than anyone else and he will reluctantly sign with NY even though he would prefer to be in a more suburban type city (from all reports).
A Darko Fan since 2010!
by TheEvilProfessor on May 21, 2010 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions
So are the Wolves gonna draft John Wall now?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Sorry. Couldn't help it.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Philly could draft Cousins.
If he is as good, minus the ‘tude, as people think, it isn’t unreasonable that philly takes him and lets him “develop” a year as he splits time with Dalembert…who has an expiring contract if I’m not mistaken.
I’m just saying it’s possible…
Wizards could draft Cousins too...
In fact, here is my latest brain-burp:
We work a deal with the Wiz. They want Cousins, but don’t want to pay for #1 draft pick. So we do a deal with them — they draft Turner at #1, then we draft Cousins at #4. We do a trade, Cousins plus asset for Turner.
Cousins is the answer to their prayers, as they say they are keeping Arenas. Of course, they could be kidding about keeping Arenas, but somehow I think they really mean it. Why would they not just draft Favors at 1 if they wanted at big man? FIrst, they get out of paying #1 salary for 4 years, saving a few million, and 2nd, they get another cheap asset from us.
So this way, they can get Cousins, at a more reasonable price, and pick up another asset too. Maybe Ellington? Maybe Pekovic? Maybe a pick, but preferably not, IMHO, not in this draft, lotsa good guys at 16 thru 23. I’d hate to see Ellington go, but if we get Turner, Boots is expendable. And we can pick up a similar wing with as much or more upside at 23, leaving 16 for Serafin. Or another big.
Of course, for this to happen, we need to be sure that Wall & Favors go before Cousins, but given the needs of NJ & Sixers, I think that is a given. If not, then that means that either Wall or Favors falls to us, and we can ship one of those to Wizards under the terms of the deal. Or not, as the case may be. If the Wiz likes Turner better than what’s left at #4, then we take the consolation prize which is either Wall or Favors — it’s like we moved up a slot or 3.
It's funny how things are percieved
Givony tweeted that Cousins wasn’t good with the media.
Chris Reina from RealGM writes
The DeMarcus Cousins show was probably the highlight of the day, at least in terms of having levity. He was asked a ton of tough questions, but held in like a champ. He didn’t try to be any different than the person he truly is and that’s to be respected. He will have some bouts of immaturity and he didn’t attempt to hide from it, instead embracing it and in the process disarming it.
Maybe it’s because they’re both incredible rebounders, who have battled fitness issues and are from Alabama, but there is a lot of Charles Barkley in his personality. His delivery of answers is similar in the sense that he makes you laugh even if it is a one or two word answer.
He also has the exact Orton quotes in that article
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on May 20, 2010 8:38 PM CDT reply actions
That Orton stuff
was blown way out of proportion. The real quotes made it sound like he really enjoyed being Cousins’ teammate.
Thanks for the link!
From that link:
Orton says he was measured at 6’8" or 6’9" without shoes, which is shorter than I was expecting. He appeared quite a bit shorter than Cousins and I think that will ultimately hurt his stock that seemed to be rising as teams took a closer look at his film.
If Orton measured 6’8" or 6’9" without shoes and Cousins looked quite a bit taller….what is Cousin going to measure? If Cousins hits 7’ with shoes will people stop questioning if he’s a center? I’m guessing 6’11" with shoes.
I'm guessing 6-11 with around a 7-5 reach,
plenty tall and strong to play center and this is without NBA weight programs. This guy is huge and he has great touch, he might be the most talented player in the draft but I just have problems from what i’ve heard with his attitude. Still if we get stuck with 4 and Favors, Wall and Turner are gone I would take Run DMC without a doubt.
by Bad News Wolves on May 20, 2010 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions
If anyone was questioning whether Cousins was a C or not, ummm, what are they looking at?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
How about his being listed at PF in college?
I don’t question that he can play center. I question whether he’ll be an Al Jefferson “center, but we wish we had a real center in which case he’d play PF” or a true, legit, never considered undersized, 2-way center. The former is a lot less valuable to us.
Doesn't that mainly depend on size?
That’s what I think is being referred to. Who cares about listings? The only question I care about is whether the guy is physically capable of guarding the tallest post players. That’s what really distinguishes whether a guy is a true center. Size-wise, he is, and if he can’t do it in the games, that says more about his athleticism and technique than any notions about being a true center.
by pagingstanleyroberts on May 22, 2010 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Great link to RealGM...
Seemed to give a good read on a number of players. Reinforcing my likes, (e.g. George) and giving a more positive view of Whiteside than I expected. And also reinforcing my opinion that there are good guys at #`6 & 23 in this draft.
BTW, the fact that this is a deep draft adds value to our picks as assets.
He is decent with the media. Youtube it.
Cousins talking about the deluge of phone calls from Tennessee fans.
Start at 2:13: How about where someone asks if he’s changed his cell number? His response: “No, I’m ’a change it after the game, I want to see what they have to say then.” (Laughter.)
I went and looked for all this stuff a while back…. I do not see the direct evidence of the horrible character problem, even in the incidents people talk about.
I remember J.R. Rider. This kid doesn’t give me that “vibe.”
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
Speaking of JR and cell phones...
"Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have." Steven Wright
Your distinction:
Young Barkley?
- or -
J.R. Rider?
He’s not Michael B. The deal on B-Easy is that his nickname tells you about his attitude. The guy came to summer league and was singing during games. Cousins burns hot, but it’s not the same kind of smoke. (Cough. Cough.)
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
Cousins
I’ve seen quite a few of Cousins games and what I’ve seen is a guy who is always working hard and always hustling. That’s a sign of a good attitude to me, at least on the court. None of us know anything about him off the court.
Additionally, of the Kentucky games I’ve watched, Cousins was the best player on the court.
by Mac of the MIAC on May 20, 2010 9:13 PM CDT reply actions
What’s strange is considering his performance record, his size, position, and age, he should be in the discussion for #1 overall. You just don’t see freshman big men this productive all that often. But he’s not in that discussion. So immediately my “Wisdom of the Crowds-dar” goes off: maybe there is too much flakiness to him. Wouldn’t be the first time.
Time will tell, I guess.
It is odd. But how much of it is backlash from recent events? I think clowns like Beasley have made teams much more wary of potential character issues than in the past. Can you honestly see someone like Olowokandi going number one now. With the way teams evaluate players, I just can’t see them not picking up on his complete lack of motivation or passion.
Cousins does, at least, seem to try hard and be competitive. It’s entirely possible that he could be the best player from this draft in a few years.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
Bust Potential
I’d also say that Turner and especially Favors have more bust potential than Cousins. Cousins is going to be a productive player in the NBA for a long time.
by Mac of the MIAC on May 20, 2010 9:15 PM CDT reply actions
I wouldn’t have a problem taking Cousins. We need a superstar, and he is as likely as anyone in the draft (maybe slightly below Wall) to be that. The Wolves preach their development goals and capabilities. Development is more than just physical skill development; it includes the mental and emotional aspects of the game too. Indeed, that should be an important part of every organization because the top players in the draft every year are usually one-and-done players. Not every 20 year-old is emotionally and mentally ready and capable to handle 80-plus games, constant travel, and lots of money. Most probably aren’t ready for that. Cousins will be more of a challenge than most, but if the Wolves want to preach development, this is an opportunity for them to put their money where their mouth is.
That said, I’d rather have Turner. But I might prefer Cousins to Turner minus whatever we have to give up to get him (assuming he goes second).
weren't the wolves going to get a team psychologist?
I seem to recall an interview where they talked about getting a guy to help players shoot whenever they wanted too and also about the need at somepoint to get a psychologist for players to go see on their own to help them deal with the public pressures of the NBA if they need it.
A Darko Fan since 2010!
by TheEvilProfessor on May 21, 2010 7:12 AM CDT up reply actions
Bickerstaff said they're exploring all of those avenues
When he did the meeting with some of the posters on this site. Nutritionists, Psychologists, Sleep Analysts; there are probably more but I forgot them.
by pagingstanleyroberts on May 22, 2010 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions
All sitting on the Group W bench?
"Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have." Steven Wright
Cousins is going to be a multi-time All-Star
Undoubtedly. Like I said, just accept it and stop hating on this dude. He is our saviour.
Or another teams
He may not be available at #4.
"Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have." Steven Wright
Gilbert and DeMarcus would work out great too
similar personalities, work ethics, ect
Undoubtedly?
There is no doubt that a college prospect will be a multi-time All-Star? I think there are doubts that anyone from this draft – Wall and Turner included – would be a multi-time All-Star.
Where does that come from?
The people on this board that bash Cousins are 1. ignorant……….or 2. Stupid.
This guy was either the best or second best player on a nationally ranked # l team.
WTF was Eddie Curry????
by Adam Chandler on May 21, 2010 8:00 AM CDT up reply actions
perhaps a symbolic reference to the other Curry?
i.e. most Canis Hoopus agree Cousins is the player to take, as last year with Stephen Curry. And the rest is history we don’t wish to repeat.
by richardovich on May 21, 2010 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions
Ignorant or stupid? Well, thanks for that
Some of just take character issues to be pretty important. If I could be assured that Cousins was a model citizen, I’d be all for drafting him. The man does have a lot of talent, although like some have said, its probably talent that is redundant in some ways to Big Al. But the character stuff scares me enough to say “no thanks”.
I guess if that’s ignorant or stupid, so be it.
Ignorant and stupid seem way too aggressive. (And I’m not one who’s dismissing Cousins at all; he absolutely merits consideration at #4, anybody with his profile would). Because looking only at production and ignoring other issues/traits seems awfully myopic, as well, particularly with a guy like this.
As an example, in 2006 Tyrus Thomas was a no brainer on paper. His NCAA production as a freshman was off-the-charts and he starred on an elite NCAA team. But he didn’t develop into a franchise talent in the NBA and many people cite his attitude as a big hindrance. It’s an imperfect example, sure, but stuff like this happens all the time and the Wolves had better be doing their homework.
I don't remember Tyrus' production being the most important part
He was a total projection pick. Everyone knew he was raw. The interest was mainly in his physical profile and athletic skills. All I ever heard about was his quickness, hops, and length. He just needed to better learn how to play and harness his skills.
There are some nice comments about DeMarcus’ physical profile, but his production far exceeds anything Thomas ever did, and he’s much less of a project than Tyrus was ever considered. He’s got his bball shit together more than Tyrus ever has.
Here's what amazes me...
…I was against Cousins, flat out, until I read the piece by the guy who interviewed him. The more I read about his exposure at draft camp, the more I like the guy.
I think a sense of humor adds a lot to a person’s ability to handle challenges.
We gotta consider him at pick 4.
I still think we’ll get Turner however, via a trade with Wizards. They take Turner & trade him to us for Cousins and considerations.
Darington Hobson of New Mexico?
If we’re building around Rubio, how highly do we value an ability to move without the ball? Worthy of our 16th or 23rd pick? I agree with Reina’s assessment:
One of the aspects of Hobson’s game I’ve been most impressed by is the way he moves without the ball in his hands. I asked him if that’s something that has always come naturally to him.
“When the ball is not in your hands, there’s other ways you can get it,” said Dobson. “That’s just moving around, staying busy. I know where I’m supposed to be on the court at all times.”
Don’t know how much is attributable to the triangle, but the Twolves’ positioning and slashing wouldn’t have provided much fodder for Rubio’s highlight reel passes.
That’s interesting, because I’ve seen Hobson receive numerous comparisons to a poor man’s Turner in that he’s a big wing who can handle and pass. To see that he’s also effective off the ball makes him very intriguing. We should give him a look if we don’t get ET because we desperately need a wing with size who can handle the ball.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
From that same RealGM article Eric @ posted:
I asked Cousins if he’s familiar with the Triangle offense, which is frequently run by Kurt Rambis and the Wolves.
“I know of it, but I’ve never played it.”
“You saw a lot of back to the basket (from me) this year, because that’s how I was told to play,” said Cousins. “But I have a lot more aspects to my game.”
Also note: In the High School matchup with Favors, Cousins was criticized by Givorny for being too much in love with his perimeter game, if memory serves. And it does:
The Alabama native’s offensive game is largely based around his ability to face the basket, which can be frustrating at times. He showed off a very smooth, effortless jumper from the perimeter against South Atlanta’s 2-3 zone, drilling one 3-pointer and a number of 17-19 foot jumpers. He exhibited the ability to take Favors off of the dribble with his nifty perimeter skills, exhibited by a gorgeous drive to the rim that finished with a spin move and power dunk. There were a number of other drives to the rim and instances of the big man handling the ball in the open court that were awfully impressive, though it made one ponder if that is really what they want a player of his size doing on a consistent basis.
Even more impressive though was Cousins’ ability to pass the ball. Constantly keeping his head up, he was able to find the open man on a regular basis when faced with a double team….
It is often times frustrating to see Cousins hang out on the perimeter as frequently as he does, when he could really be a massive force in the pivot if he desired to do so. Granted South Atlanta’s compacted zone forced him out on the perimeter more often this game, but he is a player who still feels more comfortable doing his damage outside then in the paint. Even in the other times we observed, he opted to go to turnaround jumpers out of the post rather than power moves, which needs to change if he wants to become the dominant big man he has the potential to be.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
by feral on May 21, 2010 8:46 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
how many times have you seen Al
take anyone off the dribble? I think we can stop comparing Cousins to Al now. My only concern with Cousins is his potential maturity issues and his true measurements. I still prefer Turner, but will console myself with Cousins if that is how is shakes out.
A Darko Fan since 2010!
by TheEvilProfessor on May 21, 2010 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions
With all due respect...
I’m going to continue the comparisons until I actually see Cousins do anything like this. High school is a lot different from college, and college is a lot different from the NBA. At each step up, a player loses part(s) of his repertoie.
Jefferson averaged 42 & 18 as a senior in high school. I suspect he showed more than jumphooks and up-and-unders at that level.
Is this really true?
At each step up, a player loses part(s) of his repertoire.
Not that things don’t get taken away from players – but in High School, how do you think Shaq got his points?
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
I think it's generally true.
Players can just get away with more at lower levels of competition. Their opponents are smaller/slower/worse, and their role on the team is usually a lot bigger, allowing them more leeway in how they go about things.
Cousins probably does have a nice jumpshot, but it might not be good enough to rely on during NBA games. He certainly didn’t show it off much at Kentucky. Whether that’s because he wasn’t supposed to, or he didn’t trust it, we can’t really know for sure.
I saw plenty of Cousins facing up in the Kentucky games I watched. He has surprising quickness and a good handle for a guy that size.
Go watch the Cousins mix on youtube – there’s a couple clips in there of him running the break and even one where he picks a guard clean at half court and takes it all the way in for the dunk. The guy has some serious skills.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
There are also clips on YouTube
of Shaq taking it coast to coast in high school and at LSU. But that doesn’t mean that he should be doing that all the time.
It's not like...
your typical NBA big man is incapable of running up and down the floor and dribbling with both hands. This is sort of what I’m getting at — these guys are professionals and can do all sorts of things with the basketball that we don’t see during games. Cousins probably has a face up game, but I question whether it’s something that he will dominate NBA opponents with. That’s all.
correct
but it does speak to Shaq’s athleticism and it should in Cousins’ case too.
by TWolvesFanInLA on May 21, 2010 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions
I don’t recall saying he should be doing it all the time.
But I’ve seen him face up in games and take his guy off the dribble. Should he not be doing that? At what point can we say that he has a broad skillset and it’s a plus versus saying his skills won’t translate?
This is a guy that many people panned for simply overpowering his opponents, saying he won’t be able to do that in the NBA. Now we hear that he has a developed face-up and midrange game. This seems like a good thing to me, especially if he resisted relying on it in favor of doing what worked (and what his coach told him to do), which was beasting down low.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
Give and take, is what I see.
Shaq in college basically overpowered everyone. He didn’t develop half of his post game until the NBA.
I don’t think the rule is just “He can do less at the next level up” at all. If we were to apply that rule to Wesley Johnson, we’d say he would never learn to handle it well enough to succeed at the NBA level, right? That’s not certain, though.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
I think it is just as true to say...
…that players develop new skills at the NBA level, because at lower levels they could get by on one or two skills.
did you see the video posted somewhere on CH yesterday of Cousins taking it coast to coast with a graceful layup to finish? Some game while at UK. It was pretty impressive.
by TWolvesFanInLA on May 21, 2010 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Well you're not going to see this stuff by sitting on a blog
talking about how you haven’t seen it. Actually, people have even posted a few links that show some nice moves of Cousins’. If you really want to see how he is different than Al, just watch a highlight video of both of theirs. I can promise you that Cousins looks a lot more athletic and he definitely goes in for more contact. Their play style really isn’t that similar. Obviously there are parts of it that are (struggle guarding stretch 4s, nifty footwork, good hands), I’m just saying that Cousins has some obvious differences that you notice the second you watch his highlight videos (and yes, I realize these are highlights, but Jefferson isn’t exactly going to wow anyone with his highlight videos…
Buckeyes are red, Wildcats are blue,
I wanted Evan Turner, But DeMarcus Cousins will do.
I think the biggest difference is length. If Cousins measures out at 6’11" with 7’6" wingspan he can guard Bynum, Gasol etc, which Al can clearly not do.
by TWolvesFanInLA on May 21, 2010 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Cousins is also apparently a smarter player who is a better passer out of double teams and a quicker decision maker.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
sounds like he was made for triangle
by TWolvesFanInLA on May 21, 2010 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Greg Monroe
was made for the triangle, if any big man in this draft was. He is a phenomenal passer.
Made to be a triangle PF, apparently.
His reach is so much smaller, as we see in the other thread.
The scuttlebutt is Monroe to the Jazz, or anyway that’s what he was asked about right up front yesterday. Jerry Sloan would love his kind of smarts, anyway.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
Jefferson's highlight reel...
could show some of the best arrays of footwork you’ll ever see. It wasn’t as noticeable last year as it was in 2008-09 — I hope that is because he wasn’t all the way back from injury and not because Rambis’ offense can’t incorporate him into his favorite spots on the low block.
That drop step dunk on Yao’s face was pretty sweet — I don’t think Cousins is capable of that, but maybe I’m wrong.
I agree with this
I watched a lot of Cousins this year, and his foot work and back to the basket game are not in Al Jefferson territory, but few are. I also think that Cousins is much more athletic than Jefferson and can run the floor and finish. I think Cousins is the better fit with Rubio.
Nobody's dogging on Al Jefferson's offensive footwork.
Mplax just contrasted the style of the two guys:
Cousins looks a lot more athletic and he definitely goes in for more contact. Their play style really isn’t that similar.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
I was focusing on...
but Jefferson isn’t exactly going to wow anyone with his highlight videos…
I have seen Cousins’ highlights and didn’t come away impressed or wowed with anything at all. He isn’t fast and he can’t jump. He’s faster than most 290 lb people, which is why he’ll make millions playing basketball for a living, but he is not a special athlete by any measurement at the NBA level. He’s just big and skilled.
As for Jefferson, I sort of am “wowed” by his moves. His amazing accuracy on jump hooks (some are basically sky hooks) and his various head fake sequences are unlike any player in the league, today. It’s more incredible to me than watching Cousins chug down the court and make a weak dunk.
Basically you've got tunnel vision here.
We can look at any of the players in the first round and see pros and cons. Can’t we?
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
i'm wowed by his skill..
….not his moves…if that makes sense. it’s like a slow guy who can dribble well. yeah, it’s really cool that he has a wonderful skill, but it would be better if he added it to some speed and some hops.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Actually
I bet Al got most of his points on jumphooks and slams given that everyone he was playing against was about 4-6 inches shorter and about 40-50 lbs lighter.
A Darko Fan since 2010!
by TheEvilProfessor on May 21, 2010 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions
We don't want to think about HS defenders trying to cope with Al's pump fakes.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
Will Cousins even be available at #4?
Honestly, considering his upside, I expect Wall to go #1 and after that I expect someone to bite on Cousins. I have this hideous feeling that we will be left with Favors, who is a good player but we have a glut of good players at the 4 already.
by zebano on May 21, 2010 9:29 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
It's entirely, entirely possible with Philly.
They make a natural trading partner for us, come to that, if they want to deal down two choices.
The guy has some “next Charles Barkley” about him, in several ways, and we’re talking about the 76ers.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
I agree. Turner + Iggy just seems like they’d be stepping on each other’s toes. Meanwhile they have a done Brand; Dalembert, who’s decent but overpaid and maybe in his final year with them; Speights, your classic good-per-minute-big-who-never-gets-off-the-bench; and the undersized tweener Thad Young. Or on the wing, they need a shooter/defender to play next to Iggy (Wes Johnson?). If they wanted to, they could move down to #4 and be guaranteed to have their pick of 2 of those 3 guys (assuming Wzards go Wall and Wolves go Turner). Not saying they will do that (predraft hype/hoopla tends to have teams and observers overvalue propects, pick position, etc.), but they could. There’s potential inroads there. Just as there are with New Jersey (the owner wants an international team, and the Wolves hold the rights to the best-liked Euro PG and big man).
Favors
I’m not too high on him either, but in many ways he’d be a better pick for us – Cousins duplicates what Al (and even Love) already do. Maybe DMC will be better, but maybe he’ll be a nut. Favors doesn’t duplicate them and would fit nicely with Rubio. I just think that Favors is overrated and am increasingly finding myself in the Turner or trade down camp.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
by biggity2bit on May 21, 2010 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions
I want to believe Favors is the better pick.
Because that is who we are going to get. We get to give Darko the starting spot so we can keep him, but we’ll still have to lose one of our PFs… and if you’re sitting on three PFs as your three best players, it’s not a sellers market (I believe Isaiah Thomas proved this for NY and PGs a few years back)
by midlife crisis on May 21, 2010 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Measurements Starting to Come Out
Turner: 6’5.75" w/o shoes, 6’7" with, 6’8" wingspan, 8’7" standing reach. much shorter wingspan than expected
I’m very surprised on that. He looks like he has huge arms. I was expecting something in the 6’10-7’ range.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
Should we start calling him T-Rex instead of the Villain?
by Ebomb on May 21, 2010 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's honorable of you
but I wouldn’t want to destroy the integrity of the award that has been built up over the last several minutes.
Steph Curry and Jerryd Bayless hold the title of Trex, anyway. You can’t be Trex if your wingspan is longer than your height.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
I think that title now goes to
Grevis Vasquez. Who has a standing reach of exactly his height.
And yes I’m assuming that’s a typo.
Buckeyes are red, Wildcats are blue,
I wanted Evan Turner, But DeMarcus Cousins will do.
Guy really should have played for the Gators.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
One inch taller than Al Jefferson with and without shoes, 3" longer standing reach, almost 4" longer wingspan.
I have no idea
I’ve been wondering this myself. Perhaps they want to avoid shenanigans like putting platforms in the shoes. (That’s mostly joking).
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on May 21, 2010 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah.. just an equalized measurement, if a relatively useless one.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
They should measure them in a 12"-deep trench.
The combine measures column would read “standing trench foot.”
Or hanging upside-down, to disorient any potential cheaters.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
I was thinking the opposite
Why do they measure with shoes on? I wouldn’t want to worry about the variance in shoe height.
by Madison Dan on May 21, 2010 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I guess, but no one plays barefoot
so wouldn’t that variance in shoe height just carry over to the court?
Not if they change shoes.
And when people ask you how tall you are, do you give them an answer that varies depending on the shoes you’re wearing? I’m 5’9". Always.
by Madison Dan on May 21, 2010 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions
You'd be taller
on the East Side.
Represent!
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on May 21, 2010 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Only because
hippies rarely wear shoes.
by Madison Dan on May 21, 2010 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Cole Aldrich
bizarrely, 6’9" w/o, 6’11" with. He said he didn’t know what that was about, maybe he stood up straighter in shoes.
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on May 21, 2010 12:41 PM CDT reply actions
Wingspan? And where are you getting these from?
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
Don't have his wingspan
Just got that from Andy Katz talking to him. full measurements still t/k
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on May 21, 2010 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions
So he’s basically the same as Al. Slightly taller and longer, but similar standing reach. Not a true 5, but he could play some minutes there.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
Definitely more ahtletic than Al, and will likely have better vertical jumping measurements. Definitely tweener size but his ahtleticism may allow him to play the 5 whereas Al’s leaves him more challenged as a 5.
Yeah, I just meant size/reach-wise. But Al can sort of play C, and Favors is more defensive minded and more athletic, so that’s good to see. He’s certainly not small. Not huge, but he’s bigger than Horford so he can play some 5.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
Center would be a mistake
I think playing Favors at Center would be a mistake. He seems much more fit to be a full time PF to me. Obviously it depends on matchups but Favors seems much more Karl Malone than Ben Wallace to me.
Just listened to Favors interview
Yikes. Another guy who needs some serious media relations lessons. Just couldn’t come up with a remotely interesting answer to anything.
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on May 21, 2010 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions
That isn't really fair, though...
(and I would say this about Cousins, if it’s true — I have no idea)
These 19-year olds being put in front of a camera and microphone are not ready for this type of thing. KG was impossible to understand when he came out. Rose mumbled (still sort of does) most answers to anything. I wouldn’t worry about this at all.
KG took some lessons at some point.
You could tell he worked on his speech with someone. It was painful for a while there.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
To this day, when he's deep in thought
He still does that strange thing where he’s kinda talking out the side of his mouth and staring at the ground. Once he gets excited or animated he gets really expressive and you can actually understand him.
Yeah, the video from yesterday was positively glum.
It’s just one interview, but bah. I was expecting Boy Scout salutes from him, the way we talk about Cousins by contrast.
"No experience has been too unimportant, and the smallest event unfolds like a fate..." RMR
agreed
Favors is a PF who can probably occasionally slide over to guard centers like Nene.
by TWolvesFanInLA on May 21, 2010 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Just heard a brief interview with Cousins
He needs to learn media relations skills.
He did say that he’s had to try to dispel the idea that he’s some kind of thug.
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on May 21, 2010 12:52 PM CDT reply actions
Measurements
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/
They’re getting updated as we speak.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
Although
Exercise some logic before reading too much into the results. They’re clearly being updated quickly with some potential inaccuracies.
Witness James Andersons “9’ 0.5”" standing reach. He was measured on ESPN with a 6’8 wingspan, but on DX he has an absolutely mammoth 7’ 3.25". I call shenanigans, although if that’s true, hehe, you gotta get him!
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
Yeah, something as little has they have the with and without shoes measurements
reversed at the moment.
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on May 21, 2010 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Cousins weighed 292 pounds with body fat of 16%
But he didn’t look fat to me at all.
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on May 21, 2010 12:59 PM CDT reply actions
Well, he’s definitely a legit C. He’s an inch shorter than Alabi, but has the same standing reach. I’m going to go check the annals, but I’m pretty sure 9’5" will put him well into the “elite” category for reach. He’s a big boy.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
No doubt
He’s full-sized.
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on May 21, 2010 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions
OK
That ties Brook Lopez, Shaq, Thabeet and beats Oden and Dwight Howard. There are only 4 entries that rank higher than 9’5, but the highest in the DX database is 9’8, by a guy who doesn’t play here. JaVale McGee has the highest functional measurement at 9’6.5".
Attitude is the only reason not to take Cousins. I’m officially talked into him, unless he shows signs of being batshit crazy. Take him, move Al and roll with it.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
by Xand1 on May 21, 2010 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree
But as Andy Katz on TV said, Cousins had the most people around him during the media sessions, and had the most buzz with NBA personnel about what exactly the attitude problems are. Cousins was his #1 storyline of the NBA Draft Combine. I would love him at #4, but at a minimum these measurements and the ability to handle himself somewhat maturely in interviews have definitely made this a 4 player draft. Couldn’t ask for anything better from a Wolves point of view.
completely agree...
It’s also why Kahn should stay put at #4. Force Philly to decided between Cousins and Turner.
Although I’m all for going all in with 16, 23, Pek and Al to get Turner and DMC.
by TWolvesFanInLA on May 21, 2010 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions
What about
take back Brand for the #2, move Al for a veteran SF (Dengish) , pick Turner at #2, Cousins at #4.
Sessions/Flynn
Turner/WEllington
(Veteran)/Brewer
Love/Brand
Cousins/Darko
That’s a lot of quality younger/older guys to surround Cousins.
That I would actually do
Although I am not sure we actually have the cap space. Brand at 15M plus the 4M or so for the #2 pick, where is the money to resign Darko? I would Guess that we wouldn’t sign Darko then.
A Darko Fan since 2010!
by TheEvilProfessor on May 21, 2010 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions
My man Ebomb
has commented a few times that Deng may have some deal in his contract that it counts less in either dollars or cap space (can’t remember which), but that may be some help.
The other thing is, getting Cousins might tinge the chances of the Wolves paying Darko what he wants.
If that is true, and Cousins is available at #4 and we don’t trade up, Al for Deng is a trade I am more than comfortable with.
I think a Al for Deng plus a swap of #23 for #17 is fair.
Although I’d rather do Al for Prince and #7
by TWolvesFanInLA on May 21, 2010 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions
As a Bulls fan
I can tell you there is probably little interest in Big Al from the Bulls, however there has been some talk of this:
Toronto gets:
Al Jefferson
Taj Gibson (only big man on all-rookie team)
Wolves #23 pick
Minnesota gets:
Luol Deng
Bulls #17 pick
Chicago gets:
S&T Chris Bosh
Big Al probably doesn’t fit all that well with what the Bulls are trying to build: a fast, defensive-minded team. From the Wolves perspective though, it’s the same outgoing and incoming as you suggest. It should be pointed out that this would have to happen after July 1st and the draft picks will have been made.
Other than being
slow and offensive-minded, I think Al fits perfectly with a fast, defensive-mined team . . .
You're obviously more familar with him than I
but he doesn’t seem to care on the defensive side of things, that won’t sit well in Chicago
Didn't mean it like that
In chicago, defense comes first….offensive things aside
I kinda like the wolves and what they’re trying to do
In chicago, defense comes first….offensive things aside
Exactly why the team couldn’t score in the playoffs.
I get you.
I like the Bulls way more than I like Al. Maybe Al should be on that team to balance out the effort and defense of a guy like Noah . . .
It could work
but it could also end up haunting them with one slow guy on a team that runs…
I think the Bulls could go there if they strike out on Bosh & whoever.
Yeah.. If you have no one that can score reliably in the half court, you get destroyed in the playoffs. Al would actually fit quite well on that team because he can manufacture buckets and his defensive lapses would be balanced out by Noah.
Yeah.. If you have no one that can score reliably in the half court, you get destroyed in the playoffs. Al would actually fit quite well on that team because he can manufacture buckets and his defensive lapses would be balanced out by Noah.But I don’t want Deng in the least, so I’m glad your team doesn’t want him.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
Very true
which is why the Bulls will shoot for someone who can do both (Bosh) and if they strike out, get some scoring help in the lowpost (someone like Big Al)
I think Bosh is the most overrated player in Free Agency. His defense IMO is less than impressive. But you’re correct in that he would fit better with a team that wants to run than Big Al, without a doubt.
More overrated than JJ?
or Amar’e?
I agree with you that I don’t think Bosh is a franchise-changer. But I’d rather have him than those two guys.
No, not more overrated I suppose. I just don’t like the idea of giving Chris Bosh the max and having him be your “leader” in the Frontcourt. If you could sign him to a Al Jefferson like Contract, he would be more appealing to me, but not at the Max. His whole career has shown he’s not a franchise player. Why pay him like one.
I agree.
I think unless he is paired up with at least one and probably two more All Stars, maxing him out is going to be a waste of money.
Exactly
He doesn’t work in Toronto when paired with a floor stretcher in the frontcourt, so that means he can’t be your defensive anchor. If you need to put him next to a defensive anchor for him to be a winning player (like big al), then he is not a franchise frontcourt player.
Would Philly actually give up the #2 pick...
to dump the salary of a free agent they signed just a couple years ago?
Eesh. Talk about a fan-friendly move. I can’t even imagine.
Still no
The combination of those moves puts the Wolves back into pre-KG-trade territory with their cap. Might as well nickname Brand “Blizz” and have Deng start going out with Adriana Lima. This organization can’t give up the financial flexibility that unequal-salary trades might provide in the next few years.
by pagingstanleyroberts on May 22, 2010 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions
No as well...
A decent rule of thumb is to never take one of the 3 worst contracts in the NBA. I’d sell the farm and certainly take back Sammy, Kapano or Iggy, but wouldn’t touch the Brand contract….it kills you for the next 4 years b/c it is virtually impossible to move…at least we can still trade Al if we decide to go in a different direction.
by TWolvesFanInLA on May 21, 2010 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions
"we can still trade Al"
I’d like to think that, but I think we’re going to find out this summer that the difference between Al and his contract and Brand and his contract aren’t as far apart as it might first appear.
"produces" what?
Losses? Scowls? DUIs?
He is a low-post land-bound black-hole scorer. My hope is that they will move him for somebody at a different position who is more well-rounded, but I highly doubt that he is perceived to be a valuable NBA player, especially in light of his injury history and what he is due to be paid.
He's not even a "valuable NBA player"
at this point? We all know you have a strange hatred of Al Jefferson, but I think this takes the cake. I think there are lots of teams out there who would love Big Al.
You're right in thinking
my dislike for him is irrational. But he’s part of the problem, not the solution. This team can’t begin a new chapter until he’s gone. He’s not a leader, not a defender, not a passer, and hasn’t done anything to change the culture of this team.
He’s like an employee who’s a good salesperson, but cuts corners, disrespects other employees, cheats on his expense account, and gets drunk at the Xmas Party.
I look at it quite differently
Sure, Al’s not a great leader and he’s not good enough to be a #1 option. But I think he could be a very good #2 or #3 option. Like Amar’e to Nash. And I don’t think its smart to say that just because we don’t have our #1 yet, we should trade what could be an important piece down the line.
I think if we trade Big Al, we risk being a team – like Chicago – who desperately wants a great low post scorer, and can’t find one.
I'll trade places with Chicago
in a heartbeat. At least Noah occasionally goes on the floor for a loose ball, and lifts his arms above his waist on defense.
Al Jeff averaged 1.29 bpg
21st in the league.
Noah averaged 1.56. 14th in the league.
The difference isn’t as large as you would make it out to be.
I agree with you
I think T-Wolves fans undervalue Al Jefferson because he hasn’t turned into the franchise player we thought he might be. That doesn’t mean he has no value though. We saw every play Al Jefferson made, for Noah we saw the playoffs and a sampling of games throughout the season. Perspective.
I know you're a big stats
guy, but I watch games with my eyes. And they tell me that Noah tries harder and is a better defender than Al Jefferson.
I like stats
just not so-called “advanced” stats. But congrats on being the 10th person to make that same inaccurate joke. It’s becoming akin to “the Wolves drafted 3 point guards”
And yes, Noah is a better defender than Big Al. I agree. But you make it seem like Al is a cardboard cutout on the floor and I’m saying that he does make some contribution on that end.
Produces? Points, rebounds? Brand makes more and produces far less.
I get that you dislike Al and, for some strange reason, are concerned with the impact of our players on Glen’s pocket book, but Al is a much more productive player than Brand. Or are you saying that Al’s stats are completely hollow and, regardless of the situation, will never help a team? Because Zach Randolph begs to differ.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
he produces...
…massive negative +/- numbers. ;)
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
I fully expect that Philly and MN will workout
some selction deal where philly selects turner, NJ will pick Favors over Cousins because of Lopez and MN will select Cousins and there be some kind of Turner for Cousins swap with maybe a minorly bad contract coming back to us to even things out.
A Darko Fan since 2010!
by TheEvilProfessor on May 21, 2010 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions
but you are forgetting that philly is going to have to give up something
to cover part of brands contract. Giving Love and two first round picks should get you the #2 in and of itself. As an owner getting love and let’s say the 16 would almost enough for the #2.
If they want to include Brand, they are not getting alot back.
A Darko Fan since 2010!
by TheEvilProfessor on May 21, 2010 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions
I said the exact same things. Ultimately, I think they underestimate just how much of an albatross Brand’s contract is.
One of the most regular and loudest posters over there thinks Love, Rubio, #4 and #16 for #2 and Brand is fair value since the TWolves have made it known that they value Turner as overall #1. Tough group to reason with. Hopefully their GM is more realistic. Clearly the fans think Turner is surefire #1 option franchise player.
Yep
And I can’t say I want the T-Wolves to be either.
Cheers, Ei—on the East Side of Madison, where we may not wear shoes, but we also don’t get confused for Ned Flanders.
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on May 21, 2010 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Luke Babbitt
Measured in under 6’6. That can’t be good for him considering some thought he might measure closer to 6’8.
Wes Johnson
is 6’7.25 with shoes, 7’1 wingspan, 8’10 reach
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on May 21, 2010 1:17 PM CDT reply actions
I'd still give that
to Greivis Vasquez :)
6-5 no shoes with a 6-5 standing reach… Wonder if they take standing reach with shoes on…
Buckeyes are red, Wildcats are blue,
I wanted Evan Turner, But DeMarcus Cousins will do.
Even still
He’s a PG, so he’s still bigger than most PGs. It’s his athleticism and ability to defend that I’d be worried about.
That's the worst?
Those are pretty typical numbers for a PF. It’s nothing to be thrilled about, but I don’t get it. There’s gotta be someone worse than this.
though he's taller than I expected
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on May 21, 2010 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Very Interesting
Am interested in his athletic measurements as well. He definitely is a PF and not a C.
Reminiscient of
Alonzo, Shaq, and Howard…
Buckeyes are red, Wildcats are blue,
I wanted Evan Turner, But DeMarcus Cousins will do.
by Mplax on May 21, 2010 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You know who made a lot of money this week?
Ryan Richards, the English kid.
He impressed in the workouts, and measured out at 6’11.75" in shoes with a 9’2" reach
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on May 21, 2010 1:29 PM CDT reply actions
Wings
Henry and George both posted very nice measurements. James Anderson’s are clearly not correct, but I saw his at ESPN and he checks out fine for a SG at 6’6 with 6’8 wingspan.
George could easily be a full-time 3, and Henry is quite long, so I think it’s not unreasonable to think he could spend osme time there (6’11 wingspan, 8’9 standing reach).
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
I don't think
we need to be overthinking this draft. We got the #4 and we should stay there.
I know this is a big summer for the wolves, but you can’t do EVERYTHING in one summer. Therefore I say, we take Cousins, Favors, or Turner…whoever falls to us at #4.
Figure out what to do with Al/Love afterwards. We have the “luxury” of having another losing season upcoming here, so that gives us more time to move some of our assets. Hopefully showcase Al this coming season and get max trade value for him at some point before the deadline?
I think Al needs to go this summer
…if we don’t get Turner. You can’t have Al, Love, Darko and Cousins/Favors vying for minutes all year. And I’d like to re-sign Darko.
by TWolvesFanInLA on May 21, 2010 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions
DMC has tallest reach in draft at 9'5"
tied with Alabi and Jordan
What I find really strange
is how guys who are taller than DMC and have a larger wingspan have less of a standing reach… Take Hassan Whiteside for example (they have the same reach)
Also, Larry Sanders looks pretty impressive in these numbers. I’m guessing he’ll come out as the best Max Vert + Standing Reach. Something to keep in mind.
Buckeyes are red, Wildcats are blue,
I wanted Evan Turner, But DeMarcus Cousins will do.
Could be explained
By having a longer head, so essentially even though they are taller, their shoulders are lower. I would think flexibility may be a part of it as well, but all of these guys should be able to stand with their hands straight up.
Just an innocent bystander
But has anyone tossed this out there:
Rubio + #16 or #23 to Philly for #2
Wolves draft Turner at 2 AND Cousins at 4 (I think the Nets take Favors because Lopez at center)
I’m not as familiar with Rubio’s situation as any Timberwolves fan, but it seems to me to that situation has dragged out forever. Rubio is not planning on coming until 2011-12 and even then it’s not certain if he’s going to demand a trade, correct? Why not part ways and get a couple guys who would love to play in MN and start building something? It would give Philly the chance to swoon Rubio, as Jrue Holliday is inconsistent and an unproven starter, & be able to keep Iggy as he’s the current face of the franchise. They could still have a first-rounder to please in the short-term.
I have no idea if this is insane or not, but wanted the thoughts of some fans close to the topic.
Philly doesn't need a PG
Philly already has Holiday as their PG of the future and they seem very happy with him. Why would they want Rubio? That is one trade I can almost guarantee has no chance of happening.
Always fun to have an outsider weigh in, but yeah, Philly loves Holiday, and Kahn is very high on Rubio. I doubt this would get done.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
I get the impression Philly "likes" Holliday
but he’s an unproven starter and is thus far extremely inconsistant.
I know Kahn likes Rubio, but if I’m Kahn, I’d try to unload a guy who’s name is associated with promise and stress.
And if you can convince Philly that Rubio would be a big upgrade over Jrue, and they think a crazy thought that they can speed up the process and get him over quicker, then they have to be intrigued. Maybe Rubio + 16 + 23 gets it done.
But I don't think we have to do that...
…we can have Sixers draft Turner, then we draft Cousins or Favors & trade him to Sixers for Turner, along with an inducement. Maybe a pick, maybe Pekovic, maybe Brewer or Ellington.
It is simpler, and Sixers get who they want at a lower price than a #2 draft pick.
Udoh
I find it very odd that he’s 6’9.75 in shoes with a mammoth 7’4.5" wingspan and yet his standing reach is barely higher than Love’s. I wonder if he wasn’t fully extending, or what, because he should be up there, if not above, guys like Favors/Varnado with those measurements.
I’d still take him with Cousins any day of the week. Two guys with 7’5 wingspans in your front court? Sign me up please.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
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