A simple question about Wes Johnson…
by mutleyil on Jun 18, 2010 10:56 PM CDT
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PrintI know there’s been a lot of discussion here about Wes Johnson lately, but I didn’t really see an appropriate thread to post this question. So here it is. Where did all this positive talk about Wes come from? Is it Wolves FO BS? Is it draft posturing? Have his workouts been amazing?
I mean…I’m really confused. Two months ago, Wes Johnson was the booby prize in the NBA draft. He was a one-dimensional spot-up shooter. Not to mention a poor defender in Syracuse’s NBA unfriendly zone (see Jonny Flynn). Now, I’m reading about him going as high as #3. That he’s a “potential 10-time All-Star.” That he has “elite athleticism,” “great handle,” and is a “great defender.”
Holy crap, things are not matching up here and cognitive dissonance abounds. I watched Wes about 10 times last year, and he NEVER made a good impression on me. He basically hung out at the 3 point line, never put the ball on the floor, and was extremely lazy on his zone wing rotations. But apparently Jim Boeheim teaches his kids how to kiss an NBA GM’s ass.
If we take Wes Johnson with pick# 4, I truly think I’m done with the Wolves. My only request after this little diatribe is that if you want to call me an ignorant a-hole, please explain why…
Cheers -
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The title was "A Simple Question," not a serious one...
And what post on this site is not a rant?
"I'm gonna make you cry...I'm gonna make you cry and dip my cookie in your tears!!!"
It's not a serious question
When you are simply restating the same tired arguments that have been written ad nauseam in prior posts. Repeating the old ‘DMC is great; Johnson is not’ lines over and over doesn’t make it more right.
I’d suggest you replace “A Simple Question” with “A Rhetorical Question” because you obviously ask a question you presume to know the answer to.
Personally, I don’t believe DMC will get past the Philly pick because he is outperforming Favors and few teams have the patience to wait for someone like Favors to develop.
NO, turner will go 2
It will probably be Favors to New Jersey. Then we draft Wes Johnson at 4, hopefully wes isnt taken at 3 though!
Says the Sacramento fan
Seriously… do you guys still think this is going to work on someone who doesn’t even read this blog?
Buckeyes are red, Wildcats are blue,
I wanted Evan Turner, But DeMarcus Cousins will do.
The "simple question" is this...
What happened?
Regardless of MY opinion of Wes Johnson, the PUBLIC opinion of Wes Johnson has drastically changed just in the last few weeks.
Why? Good workouts, good interviews? This is what I’m trying to get at.
"I'm gonna make you cry...I'm gonna make you cry and dip my cookie in your tears!!!"
He's been in the Top 3 all season...
Here is an article written by Ian Thomsen at SI on January 22nd, right before Johnson suffered a hand injury.
I reached out this week to four NBA scouts for their opinions on the elite players in this year’s draft (assuming those players declare for it). They agreed on two points: That this will be a weak draft, and that three players at the top have separated themselves from the pack. Based on their analysis, I am now viewing this as a three-player draft, with a big drop-off thereafter.
Those three players? Wall, Turner and Johnson.
When talking about Johnson:
Two of the scouts rate Johnson as the No. 2 player in the draft. “He is Shawn Marion,” another scout predicted of Johnson. "He’s an insane athlete who can make some shots, a much better shooter at the same stage of his career than Marion ever was. He’s a little small — he’s 6-7 and slight — but he can run.
interesting....
but I don’t think anyone, 6 months later, is calling this a weak draft.
by TWolvesFanInLA on Jun 20, 2010 1:15 AM CDT up reply actions
You Ignorant Asshole!
Nah, I’m just kiddin. I have been supporting Wes Johnson, because although I think he’s the 5th most talented player in the draft, he’s definitelly not crazy, like the guy who we all guess will be available to choose from in Cousins may be. I don’t think Cousins is crazy, I think he’s clearly the better basketball player, but I also think the Wolves interviewed him so if they decide he’s crazy, I can understand.
I’ve been supportive of Wes because I think he’s unquestionably the #5 player available in the draft in terms of value. Unlike Jonny Flynn, taking Wes isn’t a reach pick in my opinion, especially if Cousins scares us psychologically. Not only that, but the transition based offense we are investing in, which includes Rubio as a shot creating PG, Wes Johnson is a fantastic addition. He can shoot and run, move well without the ball and I completely disagree with your defensive assessment. His steal and block numbers would not be possible for a lazy defensive player.
I used to be in the “if they choose Wes i’m boycotting mood,” right after the draft, but looking at his strengths, I don’t think he should be viewed as a consolation prize. I valued Wes a ton after January as is shown by posts on this site around that time when experts said this was clearly a three player draft with Wall, Cousins and Turner; however, then Wes had a terrible February. I think that’s explained by Injury, and the Wes from outside that period is an All-Star prospect statistically no matter what his age is.
I’m getting long winded here, but Wes is such a hot button issue for some reason vis-a-vis Cousins, and I understand that because of Cousins ridiculous production, but is Favors a slam dunk for the Wolves if Jersey takes Cousins? I only ask because of the latest Ford Tweet from today:
@chadfordinsider There’s going to be a lot of pressure on Favors on the 21st in NJ. He’s looked pretty raw in last 3 workouts.
Cousins clearly has a production edge, and Favors looks to have all the potential in the world, and would fit well stylistically, but him showing up out of shape could make teams start to question the reaching of that vast potential. Personally Favors looked noticeably bigger at GT from a body mass perspective than in high school and looks to continually be bulking up. Maybe Amare isn’t the best comparison. Still a lot to like about him though.
In conclusion Favors rawness and conditioning along with Cousins maturity and conditioning may be the issues that are getting Johnson workouts in Jersey and Philadelphia, or it could be because those teams think he’s a great prospect at their level. Time will tell.
You un-ignorant, anti A-hole...
It sounds like you’re actually reasonable. This is an internet site! Don’t you know you’re supposed to be an irascible, disagreeable dick?
I also don’t think Cousins is crazy, and Rambis is the perfect rookie coach for him.
"I'm gonna make you cry...I'm gonna make you cry and dip my cookie in your tears!!!"
It is interesting, isn't it?
After all the workouts (small sample size caveat applied) thus far, which of these two guys is acting ‘hungrier’ and more professional? Cousins or Favors?
Here’s what I’m reflecting on: Cousins goes to Sacto and makes 78% of all his attempts, the highest of any prospect they’ve worked out so far this year. He also appears to be sticking to his diet and losing more weight since the combine. Teams are noting how good his perimeter game is (perimeter being a relative term here), it sounds as though his ‘craziness’ is more and more stemming from a bit of immaturity and wanting to win really, really badly (to the point where he yells at his coach).
Favors, on the other hand, shows up at his workouts clearly in poor conditioning shape. He showcases his athleticism and raw natural ability, but thus far only seems to further convince the coaches and GMs who watch him that he’ll need 2-3 years (Corey Brewer territory) before he’ll be scratching the surface of what he could be. He also doesn’t really have a jumpshot.
I just think Cousins and Favors are making perfect foils for each other right now. If I had to ballpark it, I’d say Cousins is in the lead. Of the two he’s the one I’d want on my team, even though a matured player (physically and experientially and skills-wise) with Favor’s athletic profile next to Rubio is about is good as it gets.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
by biggity2bit on Jun 19, 2010 12:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Chad Ford's tweet about Cousins vs Favors in Philly today...
Cousins and Favors went head-to-head in Philly today. Once again, Cousins looked great. But you expect that. Cousins more polished rt now.
by TWolvesFanInLA on Jun 19, 2010 12:44 AM CDT up reply actions
I repeat
Based on that assessment, consistent with four other workouts, Cousins will leap over Favors in the draft and will go No. 2 to Philly.
Collins is not signing on to a team to develop a winner in 3-, 4-, or 5-years.
Don't believe that Chad Ford 76ers website pic....
I would totally do that to throw people off course…
"I'm gonna make you cry...I'm gonna make you cry and dip my cookie in your tears!!!"
I was writing something
Ebomb laid it out well. I’m not a fan at all of taking Wes Johnson instead of DMC. I think guys with Wes’ skill set are much easier to acquire than guys with DMC’s skill-set.
This is my opinion as well...
Take DMC @ #4….and you can get a Dennis Scott clone (i.e. Wes Johnson) at #16 or #23.
"I'm gonna make you cry...I'm gonna make you cry and dip my cookie in your tears!!!"
We better take Wes or ill be Pissed
He is the best player, smart, defense, long, athletic, quick and best fit!!!! Lets Go WES!!!!!!!
Go back to SacTown.
Buckeyes are red, Wildcats are blue,
I wanted Evan Turner, But DeMarcus Cousins will do.
Perceived vs. Actual Value
That is my problem with Wes. The consensus is that Wes is the 2nd best wing in the draft and will be taken somewhere 3-7. But, after Turner, I have a hard time picking the best wing 5 year from now from this group – Wes, X.Henry, George and Aminu (if he’s actually a wing).
Right now I equate Henry to Favors – both are physical specimens who largely disappeared as freshmen on their teams and are said to have a mountain of potential. The big difference between them is that Favors is going 2-4 and Henry is going 8-17.
Frankly, I’d rather pass on Wes at 4, use the pick on DMC or Favors, and maneuver into a much cheaper position to grab Henry (around 10 or so) who I believe has just as much a chance to be the best wing of the class behind Turner.
Taking Wes at 4 is just like taking Flynn at 6 when you could get Ty Lawson at 18.
Idk about your take on Favors
While Favors may have “largely disappeared…” He did establish a strong defensive presence. It is commonly acknowledged that his offensive develop will be a project.
Best wing in five years
1 – Paul George
2 – Wes Johnson
3 – Xavier Henry and Aminu (they’ll be completely different players with completely different roles but impacting their team at about the same level).
I think George is going to be an All-Star, and I think it’s going to take him 2-3 years of learning some tough lessons, developing his game over the summer, and trying it all again to figure it all out before he gets there. But man alive, that dude might end up being one of the top three players out of this draft when all is said and done. He also might end up being Corey Brewer. Wes I think will be somewhere nearer the middle – a good to great shooter and scorer, relatively efficient and, by the end of his career, either helping some team compete for a championship in a Robert Horry type role or he’ll have become the new Corey Maggette (overpaid and not really a franchise guy but still a productive player; not really trying to compare their games). I put him 2 because I think his ceiling is lower than George’s, but his floor is higher.
Xavier Henry is actually a lot closer to becoming Robert Horry in terms of what he’ll do than Wes. Wes will do more than Horry – I should have made that clearer above. I think Henry is role player – perhaps a good one, but he’s a role player with more limited options than Wes. I think Aminu carves out a niche defensively, but the guy reminds me of Favors in that both guys always appear to be playing slow to me. I know everyone talks about their athleticism, but there’s no fast twitch with these guys – it’s like watching Randall Cunningham slowly wind up to bomb a perfect pass to Moss. That’s Favors and Aminu to me. Wes and George are more Favre – the ball is out quickly, no matter what. Fast twitch. Because of the slowness thing (which may just be my perception), I have significant doubts that Aminu ever becomes more than a 12 ppg guy. I predict he’ll become the flex 3/4 Samuel Dalembert – a player who actually helps you out on the court and does a lot of productive things for you but ends up overpaid and never quite good enough for what you really wanted out of them.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
Agree completely
I watches Wes several times, once in person against Georgetown, and he just did not impress me. Much like my opinion from watching Flynn last year at Syracuse, Wes popped up a couple times a game doing an impressive athletic feat or hitting a deep three, but he was a non-factor most of the game and just did not impress as a basketball player who greatly influenced the game in his team’s favor. That bothers me about a top 10 pick.
The world is made for people who aren't cursed with self-awareness
by Victor Mature on Jun 19, 2010 12:38 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Wes interviews well, looks physically impressive
those players always rise a little in the lead up to the draft.
He’s not terrible, but I wouldn’t use our pick on him.
Can you say anything else? Or are you Wes Johnson??
Timberwolves - NBA champs 2013!
(used with permission - Wolf in MO)
by frankenhoops on Jun 19, 2010 11:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Most people you will see here pimping Wes Johnson
in the next week, are going to be Sacramento fans hoping we pass on him so he falls to them. Apparently by being obnoxious in our blog and pretending to be a Wolves fan, it will convince Kahn to take Johnson over Cousins.
Buckeyes are red, Wildcats are blue,
I wanted Evan Turner, But DeMarcus Cousins will do.
Booby prize
“Two months ago, Wes Johnson was the booby prize in the NBA draft.”
Actually, Johnson’s position on most mock drafts has been very consistently in the 4-5-6 range for months, whereas Cousin’s position has risen during that time — though quite a number of them still have Johnson ahead of Cousins. A few months ago, people here were trying to make the case for Cousins. Now everybody here seems on his bandwagon.
Don't disagree at all...
Just saying that Wall / Turner were the prizes. Favors / Cousins were the consolations. And Wes was the Laettner. Now, all I read is what an All-Star Wes will be. Doesn’t match up with pro opinions from two months ago, or what I have seen.
"I'm gonna make you cry...I'm gonna make you cry and dip my cookie in your tears!!!"
I don't know what will happen but ...
I do profess to getting nervous about all the mentions of how player A will be a great fit here when he is playing alongside Rubio. I think it’s a very risky way of thinking. Rubio isn’t here now. He won’t be here next year. He might never be here. I hope he does lift our team, but building your team for a very young player who might vanish in the next trade deal is, to coin an oxymoron: long-term short sightedness.
True
a good point to keep in mind.
On the other hand, if Rubio does come potentially missing out on his perfect compliment on the wing might also end up being a huge mistake.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
True
a good point to keep in mind.
On the other hand, if Rubio does come potentially missing out on his perfect compliment on the wing might also end up being a huge mistake.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
To be fair,
Both Kahn and Rambis have stated that they want an uptempo team from day 1, and Johnson works in such a system because of his athleticism and high steal/block numbers. He’s not my first choice but he makes sense strictly based on fit.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jun 20, 2010 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions
agreed that he makes sense
but I think we can all agree that Wes should be the best player added this offseason. If he is #2 or #3, then I applaud the addition. If he is #1, I cry myself to sleep and seriously considering becoming a Thunder Fan.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jun 21, 2010 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Acceptance
have fun rooting for Cousins, but he won’t be in a Wolves uni. Get your barf bags ready haters, cuz Wes is comin.
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