Wolves Updates 6/23
by SG on Jun 23, 2010 1:35 AM CDT
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PrintKahn appears intent on not moving #4 pick, team conducts last pre-draft workouts, Favors' agent says no issues between him and Kahn, rumors and speculation galore and more
From Jon Krawczynski/AP Sports:
"Whoever it is at 4, we're going to have a really fine player joining our roster," Kahn said Tuesday. "I'm really excited about the player we'll be getting, no matter who it is. I don't think I can really screw this one up."
With that said, it appears the Timberwolves are intent on staying at No. 4 after finding out that Philadelphia is not interested in trading the second overall pick and the chance to take Turner. Kahn called it "highly, highly, highly, highly unlikely" that the Wolves would deal the first of their three first-round picks to move up or down in the draft.
"The idea that we're thinking we have to move up to three is ridiculous," Kahn said. "We like four a lot. It'll be fine, no matter how it plays out. I can assure you, with almost near certainty, that we will not try to move up in these last few days of the draft into the top three."
From Ray Richardson/Pioneer Press:
Kahn wasn't as firm about the Wolves' remaining four selections in Thursday night's draft — Nos. 16 and 23 in the first round and Nos. 45 and 56 in the second.
"I think we'll move a little bit," Kahn said in reference to a possible trade involving the other picks.
ESPN.com reported Tuesday that the Wolves and Memphis "were close" to swapping first-round picks, a deal in which the Wolves would send their No. 16 to Memphis in exchange for the Grizzlies' No. 25 and No. 28. Kahn did not comment on the report, but he has talked openly of looking into deals outside the No. 4 pick.
"There's a sense around the league that we're going to stay at four," Kahn said. "Nobody has asked us in a long time if we're interested in trading the pick."
Also from Draft Express twitter account:
Both Minnesota and Favors' camp say that that the article mentioning David Kahn questioning Favors' conditioning was "completely overblown."
From Tom Ziller/Fanhouse:
"Kahn and I have no issues whatsoever," Favors' agent Wallace Prather told FanHouse Tuesday afternoon. "I saw the interview online and, as Derrick said, those comments will be taken as constructive criticism."
Favors did handle the Kahn fall-out gracefully, and Kahn publicly apologized for making the statement. Prather told FanHouse Kahn had plenty of positive things to say about Favors, and that there are no leftover ill feelings between the player and team.
From Jerry Zgoda/Star Tribune:
The Timberwolves conclude weeks of pre-draft workouts Tuesday morning at Target Center.
Nevada's Luke Babbitt, Washington's Quincy Pondexter and Clemson's Trevor Booker are among the players -- Butler's Gordon Hayward cancelled out of the group today -- due in.
From Jerry Zgoda/Star Tribune:
Kahn on longtime NBA writer Sam Smith's blog item that the Wolves could trade its three first-round picks and Al Jefferson to Denver for Carmelo Anthony, then send Ricky Rubio's rights to Cleveland in a sign-and-trade swap for LeBron James: "It's sugarplums and fairy tales. I don't know where it came from and I don't know how to respond to it. In fairness to Denver, I wouldn't respond to it."
From Sean Deveney Sporting News:
Last year, the Timberwolves put together an especially quirky draft, picking Spanish point guard Ricky Rubio, point guard Jonny Flynn and yet another point guard, Ty Lawson. They traded Lawson and were unable to get Rubio out of Europe, but Flynn was productive as a rookie. This year, the Timberwolves have three draft picks again, and more quirkiness might ensue.
“We will enter the draft open to anything,” general manager David Kahn said. “We won 15 games last year. We are rebuilding. We have to be open to anything.”
Jerry Zgoda/Star Tribune on Wes Johnson:
"There's always that fine line of how old is too old," Wolves boss David Kahn said. "I don't view him turning 23 this summer as being an old man. The fact that he didn't play that one year, there's probably less mileage on him as well."
Johnson is 17 months older than Flynn, who has already played one NBA season and won't turn 22 until February."Age can be a good thing," Flynn said. "A lot of young guys come into this league immature, not ready to handle the lifestyle. Wes has been through a lot of things. Coming in a little older -- not much older, a little -- I think he's more mature than a lot of guys and ready for what's coming up."
From Derek Wetmore/Minnesota Daily: Johnson and Westbrook work out with the Wolves
From Detroit Free Press:
The odds that Milicic will return only improved when the Wolves last month hired Tony Ronzone as an assistant general manager from the Pistons. Ronzone was Detroit's international scout when Milicic was drafted.
From The Age:
Jawai, who averaged 10.6 minutes and 3.2 points a game last season, said he would consider heading to Europe if he didn't get a new NBA deal. But the 23-year-old's priority has shifted to recovery mode following an ankle injury.
Jawai returned to the training court with his Boomers teammates this week and hopes to play some game time in the three-game series against Argentina.
From Ronald Tillery/Memphis Commercial Appeal:
The Grizzlies have discussed trading their late first-round draft picks to the Minnesota Timberwolves in an attempt to move up in Thursday's NBA draft.
A potential deal that would have the Griz exchanging their picks at 25 and 28 for the Timberwolves' 16th selection has not been agreed upon but is one of several possibilities being seriously considered.
He acknowledged Tuesday the Pacers have talked trade with teams around league, deals that could finally land them the point guard they need. The only potential partner Bird identified was Minnesota, and that was to deny a report that the Pacers would send the 10th overall pick in Thursday night's draft in a package deal to the Timberwolves for Jonny Flynn and the 16th and 23rd picks.
"We did call Minnesota and we've called a lot of teams, but that (the Flynn deal) was never on the table," Bird said.
From Adrian Wojnarowski/Yahoo! Sports:
All along, the Wolves had planned to select Johnson at No. 4, and yet the New Jersey Nets are holding serious discussions about drafting the small forward and taking their chances with trying to sign a power forward in free agency. The Nets had long favored Derrick Favors, but are debating now about how long it will take for him to become a regular contributor. New Jersey is still contemplating DeMarcus Cousins, too.
Under general manager David Kahn, the Wolves are becoming the organization that no one wants to send players. Kahn’s condescending, abrasive style is frustrating to rival GMs and agents because few people believe he has the background, knowledge or credentials to even hold the job. To his credit, Kahn did hire a personable assistant GM, Tony Ronzone, who can work the phones for him.
From Keith Langlois/Pistons.com:
For context, consider the following. News leaked within the past few days that Indiana called Minnesota to offer its pick at 10 for Jonny Flynn, the point guard Kahn took last June at No. 6, one spot after drafting Ricky Rubio.
“They called last week,” Kahn told Ray Richardson of the St. Paul Pioneer Press. “We turned it down in a second.”
Curious. Not so much that he turned it down, or even that he turned it down immediately – though it does say something about his negotiating style and lends credence to the Yahoo report – but that he fairly bragged about it to a beat reporter. That can’t sit well with Indiana’s Larry Bird.And that’s a valuable insight into Kahn for this reason: If he’s shopping that pick at No. 4 and he’s that intransigent as a negotiator, then getting to his No. 2 to lay the groundwork for a trade will be important. Again, if the Pistons are focused on moving up, the Dumars-Ronzone connection could allow them to get a foot in the door.
From DraftExpress twitter account:
Minnesota sounds ecstatic to be in the position they're in. "We're in great shape." They won't try to move up to 3 to get Johnson from NJ.
From Chad Ford/TrueHoop:
Sources in Minnesota are saying that they’ll take Derrick Favors at No. 4 if Turner and Johnson are off the board. The T-Wolves may be bummed by this development, but I think it's a great deal. The team lucked into Rubio at No. 5 last year and get a steal with Favors at No. 4 this year. Those two together could be awesome down the road.
Also from Ford:
Talk of the Wolves trading the 16th pick may be premature. While the Grizzlies and Wolves have spoken, sources say there’s no deal yet. The Wolves continue to talk to teams as high as 5. Especially with it looking more and more like they’re getting Favors at 4, they’d love to add another athletic wing to the mix.
From Chad Ford/ESPN:
(Favors' previous position: No. 3 to New Jersey)
Analysis: The Timberwolves will be sick to their stomachs if this scenario takes place. The two players they covet are Turner and Johnson. If the Sixers and Nets take them, the Wolves would be left to consider two bigs they aren't entirely comfortable with.
GM David Kahn ripped Favors after his workout in Minnesota, calling him out of shape and saying he wasn't ready to play in the league. And the Wolves haven't even had Cousins in for a workout because he doesn't want to play in Minnesota. Plus, the team has its own concerns about Cousins that probably would keep it from drafting him.
The Wolves have offered almost everyone on their roster at some point this month and they have tried almost every angle imaginable to obtain another top 10 pick in this year's draft.
Sources close to the Clippers say that Minnesota offered the #16 pick and Corey Brewer to the Clippers in exchange for the #8 pick, they have offered multiple player and pick packages to the Indiana Pacers for the #10, and last night league sources said the Timberwolves had at least agreed to the idea of swapping the #16 and Corey Brewer with the Toronto Raptors for the #13 and Hedo Turkoglu - a deal that couldn't drop until July 1st because of cap reasons.
Raptors' sources said last night it wasn't happening as did Wolves sources, but it should illustrate how insane the process is becoming.
From Alex Kennedy's twitter account:
According to source, the Toronto Raptors and Minnesota Timberwolves have discussed swapping Hedo Turkoglu and #13 for Corey Brewer and #23.
From Chad Ford's twitter account:
Sources: The Blazers rejected the Wolves' offer of the No. 4 pick for Batum a couple of weeks ago. http://es.pn/dqkTEf
From The Baseline: T-wolves' Plans Might Be Falling Apart
From Pro Basketball Talk: Timberwolves looking to revamp roster any way they can
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Wow
lots of rumors… It’s draft time!
Buckeyes are red, Wildcats are blue,
I wanted Evan Turner, But DeMarcus Cousins will do.
Not completely sure
but I think that’s just the writer’s glib take on the situation. All we know for sure is that his agent didn’t want him to work out here. Maybe it is because he doesn’t want to play here for some reason or another. It could also be that his agent doesn’t believe mn will pick him, so he doesn’t think a workout is worth it.
The most credible explanation I’ve read is that Cousin’s agent wants him to go to a team with more minutes. And, like Kahn has pointed out, that’s hardly a permanent problem, so it probably wouldn’t keep Cousins from resigning when his rookie contract expires. (if we still want him at that point.)
Certainly doesn’t seem like the wolves will draft him though, unless the front office is masterful at playing close to the vest.
by oblivionspocket on Jun 23, 2010 2:22 AM CDT up reply actions
Well it would suck if two of your best three players are not with the team.
by caseycheesecake on Jun 23, 2010 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions
If Favors falls to #4
I don’t think the wolves will pick Favors at #4 unless they have a deal in the works already to trade Jefferson or Love.
Sacramento may end up with the best player in the draft again this year, if Favors reaches his potential in a few years.
So if the Nets select Wes Johnson instead of Favors and we pass on Favors, who would you expect us to take?
by AnotherDraftPickBitesTheDust on Jun 23, 2010 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions
Don't be ridiculous
If Favors is there at 4, we’re taking him. To paraphrase what Kahn said last year about Rubio, if there’s any team that can afford to wait (for Favors to develop), it’s us.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
by biggity2bit on Jun 23, 2010 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions
If I were to guess, I'd say the Nets are 50/50 on Wes
I know they like him as a safe pick, and are conflicted about whether Cousins will fit or Favors will contribute right away. But I also think that they’re trying to see if we’ll call
Seems pretty similar to how the Thunder made a last minute outburst about taking Rubio last year
FWIW Wes highly impressed the Sixers too
He could be a darkhorse for them to trade for
http://blog.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/2010/06/sixers_coach_on_wes_johnsons_w.html
“Watching Wesley work out was like, ‘Wow, that was impressive.’ This young kid has got it. He’s charismatic. He can play. He’s respectful. He’s older. Impressive,” Collins told the Philadelphia Daily News.
Wes would be a better fit next to Iggy than ET will be.
by TWolvesFanInLA on Jun 23, 2010 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Collins Interview
I heard Doug Collins talking on the Dan Patrick Show this morning.
He sounded enamored with Wes Johnson.
I almost hope Wes falls to us, just to keep alive the dream of trading for Turner.
Check out Humdinger TV on YouTube.
http://twitter.com/HumdingerTV
that’s not a bad idea. Philly drafts ET, we draft Wes and swap for some modest filler.
by TWolvesFanInLA on Jun 23, 2010 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Favors and Johnson is the draft we need
hopefully NJ takes Cousins because I don’t think we will. Infact, I’m pretty positive about that. Kahn hasn’t said anything good about Cousins or anything at all really. It’s clear to me that he and Rambis have talked and both agreed to just avoid him.
All you need to know...
…about Chad Ford is in that post. According to him the Wolves will have their hearts ripped out if Johnson isn’t there at 4 but Favors would be awesome too and the team reportedly likes him. At least he has all of his bases covered.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 23, 2010 5:46 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
His one-man show about potential Chris Paul trades is AMAZING!
It’s like a Diamonda Galás piece, and Ford has stage blood smeared all over his forearms for the tragic reaction of New Orleans sequence, which he accompanies with keening ululations. Quite the deal.
"People do not seem to realize that their opinion of the world is also a confession of character."
by feral on Jun 23, 2010 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's a compliment!
"I was trying to focus on breathing," Milicic said. "I was just focusing on breathing so I didn’t die."
I'm pretty sure I've never had
…a keening ululation before.
These hoops players seem to have all the fun.
The draft speculation
is so incestuous, reporters regurgitating the same old rumors that are generally baseless or a smokescreen to begin with.
Then come draft night we hear with the 2nd pick in the draft the 76ers select DeMarcus Cousins and the reporters are shocked because they bought into the spoon fed nonsense that they were duped into relaying to the masses.
Not that I’m complaining exactly, I love the speculation. I just annoyed when the same reporters try to pass their speculation off as fact.
Not to mention
that he takes some rather innocuous statements and twists them to make it sound like Kahn SAVAGED Derrick Favors and called him unfit to play in the NBA after his workout.
Ford is a total douche.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
A douche that gets to work for ESPN yet lives in Hawaii, hate it more and more.
by AnotherDraftPickBitesTheDust on Jun 23, 2010 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions
Seriously
I’m going to love the day that this team puts it together. It will be sweet justice when Ricky comes over and tears it up with Cousins etc. and the pundits are forced to flip-flop on their opinions of the Wolves.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
He’s had it out for Kahn for awhile. I heard an interview with Simmons last year where he basically said Kahn had no idea what he was doing and was simply calling around the league asking for other people’s opinions of players to determine his own.
by TWolvesFanInLA on Jun 23, 2010 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Nets rumor nonsense
There is no other team in the top 4 whose need and BPA match as perfectly as Favors with the Nets. To me the top three are as locked as locked can be. This draft goes Wall, Turner, Favors, Johnson, Cousins.
Yeah, I think this is the sum of it all.
The Johnson at pick 3 business is a fishing expedition for a trade with Minnesota. Perhaps evidence the league think Kahn is an easy mark.
"I was trying to focus on breathing," Milicic said. "I was just focusing on breathing so I didn’t die."
Agree 1 - 3 is set
Yeah, I’m not buying Wes at 2 or 3. I can possibly see the Sixers or Nets trading down, but no way does either team take Wes Johnson straight-up at those spots.
by Rascal Flatts on Jun 23, 2010 7:29 AM CDT up reply actions
So you don't believe...
The Johnson/Boozer rumor? It sounds pretty believable to me. Yesterday I would’ve agreed with you but considering their cap space, I could definitely see the Nets target Boozer in FA (who I think would pair up with Lopez pretty nicely) and as a result, go for a wing with the #3 pick.
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/16962/boozerwesley-johnson-package-deal-to-nets
I tend to agree with Rascal
It seems a stretch that you’d take a 22 year old wing to pass on Derrick Favors and DMC. I hope they do take Johnson. The Possibility they’d acquire a 4 in FA leads some credence to the belief.
I hope we end up with Favors and somehow acquire Paul George by the end of the night. I’m still dumbfounded as to the Memphis Trade Rumors (Then again it is Kahn).
by Jose Cordoba on Jun 23, 2010 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions
I think they’re honestly conflicted. DMC plays Lopez’s position, and teams don’t exactly try the “twin towers” approach anymore. Johnson’s probably a bit too soft of value at #3 overall. And Favors will need some time and meanwhile they can probably sign one of Amare/Boozer/Bosh/Lee.
If I’m one of these teams wanting DMC—Detroit, Houston, Portland—I’d target NJ.
They also traded CDR who is a 3
I’m with albaycakes on this one. The Nyets want to win now which means a free agent PF and “old man” Wes Johnson rather than the raw project that is Derrick Favors.
I wanna believe babycakes
I wanna believe…..
by Rascal Flatts on Jun 23, 2010 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions
I think one argument behind it is the Nets are going to look to the FA class—flush with power forwards—to grab someone at that spot. If you start with their core of Harris and Lopez. Maybe they think Wes Johnson + Amare/Boozer/Bosh is a better addition than Derrick Favors + Joe Johnson.
But yeah, who knows?
My guess is Kahn is comfortable with Turner, Favors, or Johnson. Hence the “we like 4” mantra as of late. I think he probably has some deal on the table there for Philly—probably 16 and maybe even 23—if Philly wants it. Otherwise, he’ll just take one of those three. What happens after that is anyone’s guess. I also guess his best case scenario at this point is getting Favors and then moving up for an athletic wing like George. But who knows?
My hope is he hasn’t given up on Turner, either due to Philly’s stonewalling or the Wolves’ maybe talking themselves out of him in favor of dreams of a future team Rubio. Don’t count your chickens before they’re hatched. Turner’s the prospect they need the most.
Are we supposed to be ecstatic, bummed, panicked, desperate, or what?
When the blurb columnists are reduced to attributing emotional states to various teams with respect to each rumor:
a) the draft is almost upon us; and
b) the Chad Fords and Adrian Wojnarowskis of the world could use some sleep.
I hope the Wolves’ front office gets some too. You want to be fresh.
"People do not seem to realize that their opinion of the world is also a confession of character."
There is way too much time between the combine and draft day
Seriously, it gives teams and GMs too much time to overthink and overanalyze things and it forces draft pundits to keep spewing crap out there in order to get eyeballs. This thing should have been done two or three weeks ago.
by Rascal Flatts on Jun 23, 2010 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Coastal Media Can Suck It
Last year, the Timberwolves put together an especially quirky draft, picking Spanish point guard Ricky Rubio, point guard Jonny Flynn and yet another point guard, Ty Lawson. They traded Lawson and were unable to get Rubio out of Europe, but Flynn was productive as a rookie.
This statement is getting old. Everyone in the national media neglects to report that the Wolves had already traded this pick and made that selection FOR the Denver Nuggets.
I still think hardwood paroxysm's t-wolves draft board was funny
But it does get a bit old. I don’t think it’s going to stop until the winning starts though.
HP
I still like the site, but Matt Moore gets increasingly more tiring. The incessant clueless Wolves-bashing doesn’t help, and I’m starting to get sick of his use of CAPS LOCK, complaints about the Lakers and others, and his self-described emphasis on “voice” over substance. Harper, Wade, and the parade of stat-heads they’ve had through the years are still fun reads, however.
I've got an awesome drinking game for Draft Night
Drink every time an analyst says that Minnesota drafted 3 point guards last year, including Ty Lawson.
I should be wasted by the time Houston picks.
by Rasho Revolution on Jun 23, 2010 9:17 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Love it
Too bad I have to work on Friday…
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
Nets rumor from Draft Express
Source told FOXSports.com that the New Jersey Nets still leaning towards taking Derrick Favors over Wesley Johnson.
Sources all, collectively, reminded each other that last-minute reversals in team priorities are usually bogus.
"People do not seem to realize that their opinion of the world is also a confession of character."
Although
ESPN is reporting that the drafting of Wes is linked to Jersey trying to sign Boozer. They are both represented by the same agent, and arguably Wes + Boozer >>> Favors in terms of wins this year, next year, and perhaps the year after.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
Wow
That “The Baseline” article just regurgitated Woj and Bleacher Report, almost word-for-word. I’m so tired of hearing about Kahn’s “abrasive” style. I hope Kahn has a ridiculously good draft. I want to hear Woj and Bill Simmons eat their words. I"m beginning to think that even if we landed LeBron, Carmelo, Dwight Howard and CP3 they would say he did a bad job this offseason.
I'm really looking forward
to when Kahn, Rambis, and Ronzone (KRR?) put together a nice draft/series of trades over the next week or so (I give them 50/50 odds of being able to make that happen). After all the garbage and farce reporting going on out there about KRR, the moment when the talking heads are on ESPN and discussing the Wolves and you can see one or two of the guys have again just repeated the same old storyline (oh, they drafted Favors – another PF to go with Al and Love?!) – that’s the moment I’m waiting for, when they get to the third guy to give his opinion. This happened with Vikes awhile back (I believe after the whole Kevin Williams failed trade thing kept getting resurrected for years), where they kept wanting to paint the Vikes as disorganized and they all were until they got to one guy who paused, paused again, and then said, ‘You know, I think they actually made a really good, shrewd pick.’ He called his peers on their bluff, and in the process changed the storyline about the Vikes.
Anyways, assuming KRR is able to put together a nice draft and some nice trades, I’m looking forward to that moment when (if most of the media persists in calling us idiots because that’s the stock storyline for us) one guy calls his peers on it and says, ‘I think this was a really good draft for them. I think they were very smart and made moves that made their team a lot better.’
On an unrelated note, anyone know why I can’t watch the US v Algeria on ESPN.com right now? Too many other people trying to watch it? Come on, man – I can’t go to the bar right now, but I need to know when to yell ’GOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAALLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!"
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
by biggity2bit on Jun 23, 2010 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions
I remember both of those drafts
For all of the talk back then about them “screwing up,” they got 2 of the top 5 players in each of those drafts despite the supposed blunders (McKinnie and Williams).
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jun 23, 2010 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions
Thanks
realized that Adobe released a new version of Flash. Updated that and am now in business. (Figured it out because I could watch the videos on the Wolves’ website yesterday but not today.)
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
by biggity2bit on Jun 23, 2010 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions
cbssportsline
Has it on in spanish
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 23, 2010 10:33 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
don't miss it
what an exciting match it has been so far…
by secretarykissinger on Jun 23, 2010 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions
It's like the US team has been following Kahn
they’re trying each and every sort of combo to try and get a goal.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
by biggity2bit on Jun 23, 2010 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions
Let's just hope
Kahn is as successful as they were!
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
by biggity2bit on Jun 23, 2010 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Great game…although soccer is maddening. More than any other sport the best team often doesn’t win.
by TWolvesFanInLA on Jun 23, 2010 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Not as much as you think
It seems like flukey things often drive results in soccer, but then you look at English Premier League. Year after year, the same teams are at the top. Last year, Chelsea won over 70 percent of their games and only lost about 16 percent (the rest were draws).
So the real quality teams don’t tend to lose to lesser teams, and least not any more often than it happens in other major sports.
Then there are the good-but-not-great teams like the USA. I think they are more likely to lose to a worse team (even after out-playing them) because one of the things that makes them good and not great is that they don’t finish as well as the best teams.
by Madison Dan on Jun 23, 2010 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions
By the way
I agree that it was a great game and finish. I ditched work to watch the second half. I regretted that decision for about 46 minutes, and then it worked out pretty well.
by Madison Dan on Jun 23, 2010 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions
That might be
Because the Premier League is a pro league, a pro league with financial incentives for staying in the top of the pyramid. I’m wondering if TWFiLA meant the World Cup, in which case that might be more common due to the format and the more even teams.
Some of the results this year
have led people to believe that things might be evening out a bit in the World Cup, but historically that hasn’t been the case.
If you look at the list of past champions, it’s all major powers. You have to go down to third place teams before you see some surprises (e.g., Turkey in 2002).
In that sense, it’s kind of like the NCAA basketball tournament. There can be some surprises early on, but one of the traditional powers ends up winning it in the end. (In that sense, basketball is the less predictable sport — there’s never been a Villanova over Georgetown equivalent in the World Cup.)
I was referring to World Cup. Two examples: I thought England thoroughly outplayed the US and a fluke goal leaves it a tie. And we were 3 minutes away from completely dominating today’s game and walking away with a tie. Thrilled we advanced though.
by TWolvesFanInLA on Jun 23, 2010 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Not to be a pain, but
I just don’t think your point generalizes that well. I can see where you get it from: there are so few goals and some of them are flukes, so it seems like the worse team might win more often than it should. And we can all think of some examples.
But I’ve always been surprised the extent to which that’s not the case — and I definitely don’t think it’s the case any more than it is in any other sport.
I’d refer to my point above about the limited number of countries that have actually won the World Cup. Looking back at the last 10 World Cups, there’s not a single “lucky” team (i.e, not a traditional power) that even played in the final game.
The NBA might be the only major sport that can match or beat that kind of record, and they have 5 and 7 game series to get rid of some of the flukes. The final 16 in the World Cup is single elimination.
Also,
I’m enjoying having a soccer conversation in a non-soccer environment that doesn’t revolve around whether the sport sucks. So I sincerely thank you for that. You as well, nja700.
+10
I’m a soccer player and every time the sport is mentioned it comes up with complaints about the game and how it could be improved. I do my best not to respond with, ‘F*$% off, its the most popular sport in the world’- its gotta have something going for it right?
but yeah, great game today. Hilarious that the US went from being eliminated to winning the group with an injury time goal. Awesome, and drawing Ghana we could see the US in the quarters
by NuthinBurger on Jun 23, 2010 7:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Many sports
There are a lot of sports that you can use that same example in. This spring look at the Canadians games in the NHL. They got killed each game but their goal played outstanding and they won.
Same can happen in the NFL, how many times have you seen one team dominate all game but keep getting nothing but field goals? Then the other team connects on two lucky big plays or has a fumble/TD to go on and win.
That’s sports. Like somebody else said, that’s what separates the good from the best. Finishing.
That's probably true
I was thinking along the same lines. Some national powers or the simply better teams in the group might be knocked out, but it’s still mainly powerhouses left at the end. I had the same thought about March Madness myself, and it made me think that sort of format seems to create similar results every time out.
Now
would be a good time to yell it.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
by Xand1 on Jun 23, 2010 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Did Stephen A. Smith ever eat his words about Portland's '06 draft?
No, he just kept right on talking, and said exactly the opposite stuff. And that’s the most memorable example of a pundit trashing a team I can remember.
Everyone will just move on. Kahn’s shown, to his credit, that he’ll willingly do segments with and talk to the various media people, even when they’ve been critical. He knows it’s a game. Fans take it more personally.
"People do not seem to realize that their opinion of the world is also a confession of character."
Another case where blogs were way ahead of the punditry.
It was clear to most of us that night that the Blazers were running the draft. Stephen A. had his talking points, though – even though Portland had a new GM in place, he was going to run with those.
"People do not seem to realize that their opinion of the world is also a confession of character."
If Kahn has a great draft,
they’ll claim it was luck. The Yahoo moron has already covered his bases in that regard.
The Yahoo moron?
Can we go with The Yahoo yahoo?
Buckeyes are red, Wildcats are blue,
I wanted Evan Turner, But DeMarcus Cousins will do.
Sessions + 16 for 10
I assume in the conversation with Indy, Kahn offered up Sessions to Indy instead of Flynn.
I wonder if Sessions + 16 would make sense for 10. Sessions is an upgrade at PG and probably better than any PG Indy would get at 10. He’s young and on a reasonable contract.
by TWolvesFanInLA on Jun 23, 2010 10:04 AM CDT reply actions
I don't think I'd do that.
Maybe Sessions and 23. But if Indy would do 10 for Flynn straight-up, I wouldn’t throw the 16 in with Sessions.
Really?
I’d certainly try Sessions + 23, but I don’t think Indy takes it. I’d definitely do that trade if our 2nd pick goes from Hayward or Anderson (who I do like) at 16 to George or Henry at 10.
by TWolvesFanInLA on Jun 23, 2010 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions
Right...
but they offered us 10 for Flynn straight-up. Sessions, by a lot of measurements, is a better point guard, and only a three-year pro. Flynn may have more upside, yes, but not enough that I’d throw in a mid-first pick to keep Flynn instead of Sessions.
I might be the only person on this board with this position
and I think there’s no way it happens, but if the Wolves have a decent deal for Jefferson, I wouldn’t be horrified if they made that trade for Turkoglu.
He had a really tough year this year, but he was a big part of some good Magic teams, he still shoots the 3, he’s a widely respected player internationally, he brings some gravitas to the club. He can pass out of the triangle situation. He has some skills and can help run a team..
It isn’t my favorite scenario, but I don’t see it as quite the nightmare many do.
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on Jun 23, 2010 11:54 AM CDT reply actions
I agree somehwat
Depends on what we get with him.
He’s not as bad as last year, but that contract is a little pricey.
What if we could trade Jefferson to Toronto FOR Hedo?
That makes some more sense, right?
Can’t figure out a decent trade as they would obviously have to add more value (or I’d just walk away with Al Jefferson and his one less year on his contract and far fewer years). All I can think of that I would want is DeRozan, Pick 13, or future picks… none of which I can see Tor wanting to give up as they are obviously building for the future and not the present.
Buckeyes are red, Wildcats are blue,
I wanted Evan Turner, But DeMarcus Cousins will do.
I hope you're the only person
Turkoglu was terrible, and he’s not likely to get better.
Yeah, it'd be rather low on my list.
The combination of his deal and his money is pretty unpalatable, obviously.
I don’t hate Turkoglu. I don’t hate Corey either, but such a deal would replace his shaky play (at both ends, but particularly on offense) with a veteran wing who has great length, has played a lot of different roles, legitimately has range…. We’d also be moving up to have our pick of a few other wing options that might not be there at 16. In the short and medium-terms, that’s probably an improvement at the 2 and 3, packaged together.
At a cost, though. As you say, unless there’s a good deal for Al you’re using all that cap space on someone else’s free agent signing – buyer’s remorse included in package, but no warranty.
"People do not seem to realize that their opinion of the world is also a confession of character."
I would do that Hedo trade as well
Is it perfect? No, but what trade is? Just on basketball knowledge and court awareness alone I would take Hedo over Brewer (yes, I know the contract is an issue)
I hear we're giving up a 2nd rounder in 2014 and Cash Considerations for Sonny Weems! WOW!
by Son of Gerald Green on Jun 23, 2010 11:57 AM CDT reply actions
The contract is an albatross
Hedo is a 30-year-old player who isn’t a leader and gets paid way too much for someone who doesn’t fit in an uptempo style.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jun 23, 2010 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Even Pistons fans are laughing at this one...
but I’m interested to get everyone’s take on this anyways:
Rip Hamilton & #7 for the #4?
Or rather, JoD has apparently offered up Rip + #7 for Cousins, whoever Cousins falls to…like I said, the consensus at DBB is that this trade offer is laughably bad but it would give you both a SG and a pick to spend on a SF plus keep Jefferson to trade for other pieces…
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Hamilton is a highly negative asset due to age and production along with his long term financial obligations. Including him with the #7 makes the deal worse than just giving the #7. Especially since the Wolves are trading cap space here for Hamilton. Another non-starter from Detroit. I don’t think the Pistons have the assets to trade with the Wolves, as their most valuable chip is sending out Tayshuan Prince for a bad contract, and the Wolves don’t have a cap killing contract currently.
Right on all counts
Which was why DetroitBadBoys was collectively laughing and crying at the premise of the trade to begin with…glad to see we’re all not crazy.
Oh and I have to say that SportsBlogNation has done one major thing for me in this drafting period:
Respect and enjoy the opinions/feedback of the other blogsites featured (been cruising Golden State of Mind and you guys all week to see what yer chatter is about).
Keep up the good work guys!
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Yes, you guys have some great posters over there at DBB. Always been welcoming to me over there.
I think the only hope for a Detroit-Minnesota deal you would like to see would be if Ronzone liked Jerebko, Daye, or Summers enough to make their acquisition a centerpiece of moving down. I personally don’t see the value their, but Ronzone may as he seemed to have a hand in selecting them.
I think this is starting to look like a steep drop off after Wall-Turner-Johnson-Favors-Cousins-Monroe get picked and #7 is looking like no mans land. You sure you don’t have any interest in #7 + Prince for #23 + Jefferson? We sure would like to pick a young wing of our choosing before wing needy teams like the Clippers, Jazz, Hornets, and Grizzlies make their picks.
If we can’t flip Al for #5, I’d love this long rumored Al for Prince + 7 (although I agree 7 is no man’s land).
by TWolvesFanInLA on Jun 23, 2010 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions
I can put an end to any rumors moving Tay for 3 years left on any sizable contract
According to the sportsguy, we could have had Kaman for Prince last year. Kaman is owed $33M. And now there are rumors that the package that JoD is trying to sling is Rip + #7 for Cousins…
Karen Davidson, who inherited the team from her late husband who was arguably one of the greatest franchise owners in the NBA and possibly professional sports history, is now selling the team less than a year after his death. She is in full cost-cutting mode which is why I don’t see Tayshaun included in any trade scenario what-so-ever.
It seems like her role in our trade scenarios is more significant than any Pistons fan was hoping and its ultimately going to reduce the value of our team more than if she just allowed JoD to make the moves necessary to get back to contention.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
by The Boourns on Jun 23, 2010 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks for the insight. I imagine Rip’s contract will be very difficult to move. It amazes me that Dumars still has a great rep…he’s made some awful decisions over the years.
Would you rather have Kaman or Jefferson?
by TWolvesFanInLA on Jun 23, 2010 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm partial to Kaman for 2 reasons:
1) He used to wear the “Bullet” or the Balding Mullet as it is formally known
2) He’s a Central Michigan grad and I believe a Michigan native
3) Reggie Evans grabbed his sack.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Also note that I have problems counting.
:-)
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
When you're talking about someone's sack,
the number 2 apparently just springs to mind?
"People do not seem to realize that their opinion of the world is also a confession of character."
Almost like Hulk Hogan, I believe he had the “skullet” though.
by AnotherDraftPickBitesTheDust on Jun 23, 2010 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions
How about something like this instead (no thanks to the original offer for Ebomb's reasoning)
To Det: Pick 16, Pekovic, Sessions
To Min: Pick 5, Stuckey (unless you’d rather have Stuckey, IMO I’d much rather have Sessions)
To Sac: Pick 7, Al Jefferson
Wow, it’s really tough to get a trade to work between these 3 teams… I give up. This obviously isn’t a finished trade yet, but the basic premise is that we all swap picks, with Det moving down the most, but also picking up a Euro stashed pick who is ready to come over and would have been a lottery pick if he was in the draft this year (Al Jefferson lite).
Buckeyes are red, Wildcats are blue,
I wanted Evan Turner, But DeMarcus Cousins will do.
Boy, Bill Simmons keeps goin' in on David Kahn
To start off his mock draft with Chad Ford:
“Do you want to go first? I kinda want to pick fourth so I can make Minnesota’s pick… that way T-Wolves fans can pretend they have someone competent in charge for 5 minutes.”
Actively looking for red flags since my 5th grade traveling team
Chad Ford, ESPN Insider:
What’s interesting is our fans are picking Minnesota overwhelming to screw up the draft — but my Mock now has them landing Favors at No. 4. If they get Favors — that’s the steal of the draft. Combine him with Ricky Rubio at the point and Minn has a great young PG and a great young big man — all under the watch of David Kahn.
Wednesday June 23, 2010 1:08 Chad Ford, ESPN Insider
sportsguy33:
The key word there is “under the watch” – Kahn will be gone by 2012 when they’re playing together, so he’ll be watching them on TV.
I'm a little shocked that Ford said something positive about the team
Actively looking for red flags since my 5th grade traveling team
It is not really positive
To me he makes it sound like it will be dumb luck to be able to draft Favors.
by Breaking Ankles on Jun 23, 2010 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I like
the Sports Guy, but his constant disparaging of Kahn can only be fueled by the jealousy of not getting the GM job.
Simmons was against the Foye/Miller trade. So we would have never even got Rubio if he would have miraculously landed the GM job. Which makes his ripping of Kahn’s handling of Rubio the situation, quite moronic.
Love Simmons
but he does run his jokes into the ground. He’s like an SNL sketch character that runs 5 too many times.
On the bright side: if the T-Wolves turn around he will write a 5,000 word essay on what happened and admit he was wrong. He’s done it several times.
I was just deciding who is worse
between Woj and Simmons. And I came to the conclusion that it is easily Woj. He does it more out of spite and to insult than just out of dislike. Woj tries to spin his as rumors and facts while Simmons just blatantly says he doesn’t like Kahn. It’s a lot easier to take someone who is honest and moronic than someone who is spiteful and moronic.
Buckeyes are red, Wildcats are blue,
I wanted Evan Turner, But DeMarcus Cousins will do.
WOW
It took 1 minute, and 3 comments before Simmons took a low blow at Kahn on the Ford vs. Simmons live draft right now. Unbelievable.
thoughts on jefferson to NJ for #3
What are people’s thoughts on trading Jefferson to NJ for something like #3 and Terrence Williams or #3 and Courtney Lee?
We’d get lots of cap space and we could take Favors and Wesley Johnson… Plus add another solid wing prospect.
I don't know that Jefferson would play any better with Lopez than he does with Love
Not to say that Lopez and Love have similar games, but it is one cause for concern with that trade scenario…and there is no way the nets just completely exit the draft for Al Jefferson when they have the #3 pick overall…
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Lopez can guard centers
Also, the Nets are possibly going to use the #3 pick for Wesley Johnson… I’d much rather have Al than Wesley Johnson…
Right but a newly purchased team intent on being a contender in 5 years
would not just trade themselves out of this draft…
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
why wouldn’t a team intent on winning a championship within five years acquire a player that they now can compete in this league for in exchange for an unproven draft pick? I don’t really see the logic there…
The logic being that said draft pick will cost around $3.3 - $4 M
compared to Al Jefferson’s sizable contract voer the next 3 years. If they take Favors, he’s automatically a better post/help defender than Jefferson based on talent alone.
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
Not sure they'd do that.
But how about Al +16 for 3? I’d look hard at that I think. If we’re going to take Favors/Johnson at 3/4, then no. But if it’s any two of Cousins/Favors/Turner, then gimme that.
This might be a little more realistic
But I just don’t see a brand new owner in his first draft trading away his draft pick when you can improve your team for cheap through the top 3-5 picks in any draft. I think the most likely scenario would be one where New Jersey ends up with more draft picks after the trade than they had before…especially if they’re going to make a run for some big names this off-season.
And I still don’t think that Brook and Al would play that well together. Two huge bodies who prefer to operate from the low post?
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
I am guessing that the way this thing
would have to go down, is that you discuss the scenario where NJ doesn’t get the FA they want and both the 3 pick and 16 pick are amenable to both teams with a pre discussed swap of the 16 and Al for the 3rd pick.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jun 23, 2010 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions
I don’t see the Nets doing any of those trades.
by AnotherDraftPickBitesTheDust on Jun 23, 2010 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Are we talking about..
the Z-Bo for Jefferson trade that is being rumored yet? I can’t find it in the comments…
Short reaction: Jefferson is now a pure salary dump?
Randolph in terms of the team’s future even in the short term is “an expiring.” Can we imagine Rambis investing any time at all in fitting Zach’s game into the team’s scheme?
"People do not seem to realize that their opinion of the world is also a confession of character."
Miami traded 18 and Cook to OKC
for the 32nd pick (our original 2nd rounder). Good job by Presti. He can make the money back by selling one or both of his picks in the 20s, still get a potential player at 18.
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on Jun 23, 2010 5:16 PM CDT reply actions
Etan Thomas I believe will still be on their roster for something like $7M next season.
by AnotherDraftPickBitesTheDust on Jun 23, 2010 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't think so
His contract is over.
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on Jun 23, 2010 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Miami is still clearing space at all costs.
They have room for Wade and, almost, two other max deals – but they have no assets to trade in any S&T arrangements except Beasley, Mario Chalmers, and (the team-option-pending) James “not the guy with the sunglasses and the original Kool-Aid” Jones.
It’ll be interesting to see what they do early in the FA cycle. Presumably all the Torontos of the world will be cooking up S&T deals….
"People do not seem to realize that their opinion of the world is also a confession of character."
Chad Ford also says Nets are taking Favors
Which doesn’t make it true. But would make all my fears realized:
Kahn gets no takers for Jefferson, Favors is not available and we pass on Cousins and take Wes Johnson (because if any team is one player away it’s our Wolves), and take Whiteside at 16.
Just hope it’s Eve of the Draft paranoia
I hear we're giving up a 2nd rounder in 2014 and Cash Considerations for Sonny Weems! WOW!
by Son of Gerald Green on Jun 23, 2010 8:33 PM CDT reply actions
I assume when you say
“we” you are talking about fellow Warrior fans? Otherwise….
Buckeyes are red, Wildcats are blue,
I wanted Evan Turner, But DeMarcus Cousins will do.
My bad
Sacramento fans
Buckeyes are red, Wildcats are blue,
I wanted Evan Turner, But DeMarcus Cousins will do.
What possible good does it do people to play this little trojan horse game?
When we visit other teams’ blogs, we have to be better that that, right?
"People do not seem to realize that their opinion of the world is also a confession of character."
Troll
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jun 24, 2010 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions
funny how he wants his team
SAC to draft Cousins. But pretends to be a wolves fans and wants “us” to draft Wes. You sir, are a dishonorable man…or should I say boy.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jun 24, 2010 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions
No problem MarcusC
I guess that brings home your previous point above mine. Clears up any confusion from your earlier post. Fair enough
I hear we're giving up a 2nd rounder in 2014 and Cash Considerations for Sonny Weems! WOW!
by Son of Gerald Green on Jun 23, 2010 9:18 PM CDT reply actions
Starting to seem like...
- Philly is taking Turner.
- Jersey is taking Wes J.
- We’re taking Favors.
- We’re trading Jefferson.
You know
who’d of thought 4 weeks ago that Wes Johnson would end up being the key player deciding where everyone else ended up being taken. I’d have pegged either Cousins or Favors as that player, but right now Wes appears to be the lynchpin of the top of the draft.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
by biggity2bit on Jun 23, 2010 11:16 PM CDT up reply actions
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