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Around SBN: Identifying The 19th-Best Team In Baseball

Final 2010 Draft Board

OK folks, it's time for the most exciting and unfortunate day of the year for us Wolves fans.  It's draft day.  Each and every year we get all worked up about what could happen to Our Beloved Puppies on draft day, and each and every year our favorite team finds new and amazing ways to dash our hopes, poke our eyes, jack our ride, and steal the ying away from our yang.

This year the stakes are higher than ever before for the guys at 600 First Avenue.  In the years that have passed since KG was sent packing, the front office brain trusts have been stashing assets: 1st rounders, 2nd rounders, Euros, and cap space.  This off season is the culmination of these rebuilding efforts.  After tomorrow night, the picks are gone and the horrifying remnants of the Marko Jaric deal come barreling into full view.  They can try to push off the issue of unused cap space until 2011 or even 2012, but they have spent the past 2 off seasons reminding the only remaining fans that this off season was where the cap space would really come into play.  There are not too many suckers left in the small crowd of die hards who will buy into the cap space pitch for that much longer.  

In other words, this is the last off season that any fan in his or her right mind owes Glen Taylor for him keeping the club in Minny.  All of Minny's chips are on the table.  If they flub this one up, it's probably time to find a new team to root for that actually cares more about the on-court product than they do about Blueprint 1.0 2.0 3.0 Run With the Wolves whatever bulls#$t nonsense ticket pitch we'll be subjected to if they make a bad pick and/or overpay Joe Johnson.  I can just see it now..."We have a solid group of young players who we will work to continue to develop along with a significant amount of cap space that we can use in [insert year here]"  They've played the Lucy to our Charlie Brown for so long that maybe it's just a natural reflex to pull the ball away and they can't help themselves.  Anywho...

This is the biggest off season in team history.  The Wolves have an enormous amount of assets and flexibility.  They have one of the top 4 picks in a 4 player draft.  They have 2 promising young Euros.  They have 2 serviceable point guards and 2 serviceable power forwards.  There is no shortage of moves they could accomplish.  Right now, it's all about execution. This is the off season that will make or break this franchise for a very long time.  This is the culmination of the KG trade and its aftermath.  This is the gateway to the end of the draft gravy train (which crashes abruptly into the aforementioned Jaric disaster).  Will they get it right?   We'll have to wait and see.  

Below the fold is our Hoopus Community Draft Board, our final Hoopus Score Draft Board, and a few random notes about the draft.  We'll put up some open threads before, during, and after the draft.  

Star-divide

Hoopus Community Draft Board (along with percentage of votes received and a link to the original vote):

  1. John Wall (54%)
  2. Evan Turner (81%)
  3. Derrick Favors (50.8%) 
  4. DeMarcus Cousins (64.3%) 
  5. Wes Johnson (85.9%) 
  6. Al Faroq Aminu (38%) 
  7. Greg Monroe (30.4%) 
  8. Paul George (37.1%) 
  9. Xavier Henry (61.7%) 
  10. Cole Aldrich (35.1%) 
  11. Gordon Hayward (28%)
  12. Luke Babbitt (33.6%)
  13. Ed Davis (26.9%
  14. Hassan Whiteside (29.4%)
  15. Ekpe Udoh (41.4%)
  16. James Anderson (51.4%)
  17. Patrick Patterson (21.4%)
  18. Avery Bradley (26.5%)
  19. Damien James (23.8%)
  20. Kevin Seraphin (26.1%)
Here is my personal final draft board with tiered Hoopus Scores in parentheses (with some of the notes taken from our first draft board of the year):

Tier One

  1. DeMarcus Cousins (135.387)- Holy crap did this guy have a great year.  He does everything you could possibly want from a big.  He shoots a high rate from 2, he draws a huge number of fouls (8.4/40), he blocks shots (7.9%), he owns the offensive glass (2nd in the nation with a 20%), and he carries a massive usage rate without turning the ball over a ton.  This guy deserves consideration for the #1 pick.  There have been all sorts of rumors about his character but I honestly have no idea what the real deal is.  Here's hoping the Wolves are putting in a ton of leg work on this kid because he's clearly one of the top 2 or 3 prospects in the draft, especially if his whispered red flags are really nothing more than adjustable attitude problems.  If he measures out as having legit NBA center height and length, he'll be a tough prospect to pass over...no matter where the Wolves end up drafting.  Last year Blake Griffin put up a modified Hoopus Score of 136.727.  He was the highest ranked big (and player) in the past 5 years.  Cousins nearly matches him. It's really hard to overstate just how well Cousins performed this year.  His offensive rebounding (20% vs 14.1%) and shot blocking (7.9% vs 3.6%) were well above and beyond what Griffin put up, which are things you like to see in a young big. Cousins also got to the line at a better clip (73.1% vs 70.6%) and turned it over less (14.8% vs 18.1%).  Impressive stat: 19.2 OReb%, which is good for 2nd in the nation. Unimpressive stat: He doesn't have any.  
  2. Evan Turner (129.271)- He is a solid prospect at the 2 or 3.  He boasts the 6th highest usage rate in the country with the 9th highest assist rate.  He draws 5.6 fouls per 40 minutes with a FT rate of 39.3.  He turns the ball over a tad too much (21.5%) but he also boasts a combined 5.9% block/steal rate.  He can also rebound the hell out of the ball, which is never a bad thing.  His big draw back is that he doesn't possess the upper-level athleticism you'd like to see on the wing.  The big unknown about Turner is how well he can play off the ball in the NBA.  He's not going to post a 34.4 usage rate (or its equivalent) in the pros.  How much of his effectiveness is tied to the fact that he always had the ball in his hands?  Whatever the case, for those of you who have seen Ohio State play this season, you know full well that Turner was the entire team.  He had to carry that big of a load and it is amazing that a single player was able to carry his team as far as Turner did with the Buckeyes.  Also, in terms of the Wolves, Turner is the type of player that can play well off the pick and roll (the guy is a threat to shoot, pass, and drive when he comes off a pick) and in the Triangle.  He's also the closest thing in this draft to the type of player you can throw the ball to during a bad stretch of play and say "end this".  Impressive stat: He carried the 8th highest ARate in the country while taking nearly a 3rd of his team's shots while he was on the court while carrying an insane 34.7 usage rate.  He is a fantastic defensive rebounder for his position.  He also carries a TS% of 58.1%.  Lots of possessions + lots of assists + lots of rebounds + good shooting = you can't pass this kid up.  Unimpressive stat: 21.5 TO%.    
  3. Derrick Favors (123.267)- Favors gets the bump because of the "what could be" factor.  He played on a team with some seriously rec-league guards that really did him no favors in getting him the damn ball.  He carries a nice TS% with some solid signs of being a guy who can block shots and play good defense.  I don't think he's quite the uber-athlete that many people seem to believe he is for his position, but he's definitely one of the better prospects in this top-heavy draft class.  He certainly compares well to recent big prospects in their freshman year and he rates well in eFG, TS%, OR%, and free throw proficiency while making more than 60% of his shots from 2.  If he measures out with decent length, he'll be worth an even bigger look.  Impressive stat: Did I mention the .613 shooting from 2?  This guy also clears the boards (12.3/20.5 o/d reb%).  It will forever remain a mystery as to why Georgia Tech didn't get this guy more shots.  Unimpressive stat: 23.3 TORate.  
  4. John Wall (122.268)- For a quick comparison, Derrick Rose posted a modified Hoopus Score of 121.971 in his only year in college under John Calipari.  Check out some of these comparisons between the two players (Wall/Rose): TS%: (56.9/56), OR% (2.5/5), FTr (54.4/47), steal% (2.8/2.3), assist% (34.5/30.4), turnover rate (24/19.1).  Both players feature mind-bending athleticism and NBA level length for their position.  Rose played on a better team than Wall so he carries a better ORtg and he had more back court help with CDR so there was always someone with more experience there in the back court to help him with the ball handling duties.  Both players carried an almost identical load: 27.3 usage rate for Wall and 27.2 for Rose.  The bottom line for this draft is this: Would you take Derrick Rose with the top pick if he were in this draft in place of John Wall?  Would you be even more inclined to take a player nearly identical to Rose plus the chance to be better on defense, better at getting to the line, better from inside the arc, and who may even really be 6'4" and with longer arms?  Impressive stat: 34.8 Assist%, good for 26th in the country.  Unimpressive stat: .325 from beyond the arc.  Strike against him: highly questionable shooting from outside and a mid-range game that is not nearly as developed as Derrick Rose's.  He also did not display the type of take-it-all-over ability that Rose started to flash (and is currently flashing) during his freshman season.  I think he will end up being a more complete player than Rose, but not as gifted as a scorer.  

Tier Two

  1. James Anderson: (129.178)- This year's James Harden is the first pick on the board should the Wolves lose out on the four most talented players in the draft.  He is a fantastically talented scorer who may be a bit of a disappointment on the defensive end of the court.  He carries a TS of almost 60% while getting to the line at a fair clip and not turning the ball over.  In a relatively weak draft from here on out, Anderson is the best non-Turner wing prospect on the board.  Impressive stat: He carried a 59.6 TS% on a 30.9 usage rate while only turning it over to the tune of 13 times for every 100 possessions.  Yes please. Unimpressive stat: nothing really stands out on the stat sheet but this guy simply did not show any signs of being able to defend.  That quality probably makes him an ideal candidate for the Wolves. 
  2. Luke Babbitt: (128.76)- .917, .521, and .416.  That is what Mr. Babbitt put up from the line, from 2, and from beyond the arc.  He did so with good size and athleticism for his position while not turning the ball over at a high clip (only 13.9% of his used possessions) with a good oRtg, high usage rate on his team, and while being a serviceable rebounder. I know that Paul George is the sexy swing pick in this draft with his amazing length and athleticism, but Babbitt not only has better numbers, he does best what the Wolves need the most: shoot the ball.  If he is available with the 16th pick, the team should jump at the opportunity to nab him.  
  3. Cole Aldrich: (128.14)- Aldrich didn't quite put up the numbers a lot of people expected during his junior season and Kansas made an early exit from the tourney, but the fact remains that Aldrich does two things very well that will never go away: Blocking shots and getting rebounds.  Yes, there are some other bigs who are more athletic and flashy, and he needs some work on the offensive end of the court, but the guy has legit size, can defend, and gets rebounds.  He will make Oklahoma City a very happy ball club.  Impressive stat: 13.0 block% (5th in the nation) with a 25.7 DR%.  Again, this guy will defend and rebound with huge size.  Unimpressive stat: .562 shooting from 2.  When you're that big, and you're that close to the basket...
  4. Elliot Williams: (124.385)- This is where things start to get iffy.  The Duke transfer put up some excellent offensive numbers at Memphis but if you have watched him in action (especially near the end of the year) you know that he has some very Foye-esque flaws in his game.  He's kind of an in-between guard with finishing issues.  Randy FoyeRashad McCants...the Wolves know this type of player and even though he is rated high during a weak draft class, they should stay as far away as possible.  Impressive stat: Gets to the line with a 66% free throw rate.  Unimpressive stat: many kamikaze drives end with him being unable to finish.  If he doesn't get the calls in the NBA, his game will go to pieces.  This guy is a 3rd guard in the NBA.  
  5. Brian Zoubek (124.236)- It pains me to put a Dookie this high, but the guy has legit size and he led the country in offensive rebounding % (21.4%) while shooting over 60% from 2.  He turns it over a bit much but he's one of the more solid big men in this draft and I think he will end up having a much better career than guys like Larry Sanders, Solomon Alabi, Hassan Whiteside, or Jarvis Varnado. 
  6. Ed Davis: (124.051)-  Davis was unable to make it through the season and I'm not really sure what type of player he really is, but 6'10 with 57% shooting from 2 while getting to the line and cleaning the boards is pretty hard to overlook.  Impressive stat: 28th in the nation in block%, 45th in the nation in DR%, and he shoots .578 from 2.  Unimpressive stat: 6.7 assist rate.  
  7. Paul George: (121.771)- Athleticism plus size plus shooting plus....a weak conference and an ability to disappear bring him down a notch. A very high risk pick. 
  8. Gordon Hayward: (121.65)- .294.  That's what he shot from 3 last year.  The year before he went for .448. He shared an equal usage rate with two teammates and he was more efficient than both while rebounding nicely, blocking shots, and getting to the line.  Definitely in play for the 16th selection. 
  9. Greg Monroe: (120.743)- Here is where the red flags really start to come into play.  He can really pass the ball but he can also really turn it over and not rebound as well as you would like to see a guy rebound from that position.  Monroe is one of those guys you hope is available with the Charlotte pick because there is no way he should be considered in the top 10.  
  10. Wes Johnson: (120.5)-  Wes Johnson is going to get a lot of mentions with Wolves fans but he has some fairly significant red flags.  If he were drafted by the Wolves, he would start the season as a 23 year old swing man from Syracuse (hello zone!) who needs work on his handle.  Midway through the season he went through a dry spell that reminded everyone of the player he was at Iowa State: a nice player but not someone to consider with a top 5 pick.     
  11. Willie Warren: (118.02)- Warren is probably one guy who should be used as a case study for those players who need to leave after a single year of college.  The kid had everything going for him next to Blake Griffin.  He waited a year and regressed.  That being said, he's still a guy who put up nice numbers as a freshman and has shown enough talent to play at the next level. 
  12. Al Faroq Aminu: (117.757)-  I honestly have no idea how to classify this guy.  He's a tweener forward and his athleticism and length will serve him well in the pros, but is he the type of guy the Wolves could use on the wing and with their current core? 
  13. Patrick Patterson: (117.335)- Which player had the highest ORtg and TS% on Kentucky?  This guy.  He is the CDR of Calipari-coached power forwards who will be able to contribute to his team on day one. Impressive stat: 128.7 ORtg (5th in the country) with a 10.5 TO% (44th in the country).  This guy is going to be a very solid mid-to-late 1st round pick.  Strike against him: His defensive rebounding should be better.  
  14. Jon Scheyer: (116.171)- Another Dookie...I know.  The guy will make a good backup in the NBA.  Mark my words. 
  15. Xavier Henry: (115.285)-  He had a big in-season slump with some nice play down the stretch.  He has nice size and a good outside shot.  I do not get what people like about his game.  
  16. Solomon Alabi: (114.631)- Fantastic defensive presence but the shooting and so-so turnover numbers do him in to this part of the draft.  
  17. Da'Sean Butler: (113.691)-  How bad is the injury?  Not a world-beater by any stretch of the imagination but a nice pick late in the 1st/early 2nd.  
  18. Eric Bledsoe: (106.657)- He got to star next to John Wall and he started to show signs of being able to shoot the 3 near the end of the year.  Impressive stat: nothing jumps out.  Unimpressive stat: 27.5 TO%.  Run away.  
Tier 2 1/2:

Avery Bradley, Lance Stephenson, and Jordan Crawford.  

These three players are indistinguishable to me in terms of how effective I think they will be at the next level.  All three are worth a look once the 23rd pick rolls around.  My gut tells me that they should be picked in the order I presented them.  

Tier Three

  1. Hassan Whiteside: 130.19- Red flags from here to the coast.  Old for his class, academic problems, didn't dominate Jerome James, and so on and so forth.  Avoid.  
  2. Jarvis Varnado: 129.721- I really thought about bumping him up to tier two but at the end of the day his size will be too much of an issue in the pros.  He could end up being a good backup at the 4, something the Wolves do not need at this point.  
  3. Larry Sanders: 128.81- He has excellent length and could be worth a flier late in the draft.  
  4. AJ Ogilvy: 127.52- May be worth a peak in the 2nd round.  
  5. Artisom Parakhoski: 125.96- This draft definitely has its share of backup bigs and Parakhoski is another big body that could likely be had late in the first round or early 2nd. 
  6. W. Witherspoon: 122.15- I'm not really sure why he doesn't get more mention...for a late first/early second type of selection.  
  7. Charles Garcia: 119.9- Started the season out like gangbusters and ended it busted.  
  8. Epke Udoh: 118.3- Have you seen his shooting numbers? He is a big with an eFG below 50%.  WARNING, WARNING, WARNING!!! 
  9. Gani Lawal: 116.351- Not much to say about the guy.  
  10. Sherron Collins: 109.91- Avoid at all costs. 
  11. Stanley Robinson: 109.05- There are quite a few wing prospects in the draft that would be much better than Mr. Robinson.  
  12. Devin Ebanks: (108.471)- Another guy who gets a pass because of his defensive potential at the next level as a role player.  

I think that about does it for our tiered list.  If the status quo remains in place (and I think it will not), I think the best draft the Wolves could hope for is as follows:

4- DeMarcus Cousins
16- James Anderson/Luke Babbitt/Gordon Hayward
23- Elliot Williams/Willie Warren/one of the tier 2 1/2 guys

We'll have to play their 2nd round picks on the fly in the open thread, but we will be keeping an eye on guys like Brian Zoubek, Jon Scheyer, Jarvis Varnado, or some more stashed European players.  

Here is what I wrote back on June 17th about the draft:

The Minnesota Timberwolves hold the 4th pick in a 4 player draft.  They also have two point guards (Jonny Flynn and Ramon Sessions), two power forwards (Kevin Love and Al Jefferson), two additional first round picks, two second round picks, and two stashed Euros (Ricky Rubioand Nikola Pekovic) to move in any number of combinations to get additional serviceable starting-level players, additional picks, whatever.  

The bottom line for the team is that if they are unable to use their assets to get the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd best player in this draft, they take the BPA and use their assets to adjust the roster accordingly.  At this stage of the game, it should be Evan Turner, Derrick Favors, DeMarcus Cousins or bust.  I cannot tell you how big of a gap there is between these 3 players (and John Wall) and Wes Johnson.  It's the Grand Canyon of the 2010 NBA Draft.  This isn't to say that Wes Johnson isn't a nice player (he should be a very nice 3rd or 4th option and a terror in transition); rather, it's to say that for the first time in a long time, the Wolves have not found themselves as the one-pick-too-late player in a sparsely populated draft.  For once, they aren't on the Laettner outside looking in at the beautiful O'Neal/Mourning interior.  They're on the inside.  They get to pick one of the big boys no matter what happens.  

Keeping this in mind, there is nothing a 15-win team should worry about in terms of fit, roster cohesiveness, or locker room dynamics that should prevent them from taking one of the best 4 players in a 4 player draft with the 4th pick.  It's that f'ing simple.  If it's Derrick Favors, fine.  If it's DeMarcus Cousins, even better.  If it's Evan Turner, go nuts.  If Derrick Favors is ranked higher on their board than DeMarcus Cousins, then they should try to do whatever they can to get him.  If Evan Turner is ranked higher than that, the same thing holds true.  

What should not happen is for this team to trade out of the plush O'Neal/Mourning surroundings into Laettner-ville.  That's insane.  Unless the team is able to move the 4th pick for an honest-to-Pete NBA All Star level performer, there is no reason to pull a Hello Kitty and get all cute.  None. Zilch. Zip.  

Evan Turner, Derrick Favors, or DeMarcus Cousins.  They absolutely need to walk away with one of these three players.  There is no reason for a 15 win team to walk itself out of the top tier of the draft.  It's lunacy and if they are unable to make the investment needed to shepherd a once-in-a-decade-big endorsed by John Thompson through the NBA wildlife, then they really aren't serious about player development or getting the most bang for their buck.  Players like DMC are exactly the reason why you brag and boast about player development.  Players like DMC are exactly the reason why you hire a coach to mentor promising young talent.  If Rambis doesn't want the headache then he is the wrong man for the job.  

That being said, if for some strange reason both Favors and DMC are available at 4, there isn't a whole lot wrong with the team deciding to roll the dice with a talent like Favors, especially if they are all-in with Ricky Rubio (and they are).  They'd be picking the lesser player, but Favors still has upper-tier talent.  Here's how the two bigs stack up (hooray kenpom!):

 

%poss TS% OR%/DR% TORate Blk% FD/40 FTR 2p% pts/poss PPR
DMC 31.3 57.9 19.6/25.1 15.8 7.5 8.3 72.6 .565 .1.14 --5.93
DF 22.1 62.1 12.3/20.5 23.2 7.9 4.7 48.8 .613 .1.11 -6.63


The kicker with Favors is that the team will have to wait a few years for him to become anything more than an athletic rebounder.  Another kicker is that DMC will probably be the better pick and roll player in a 1/2 court setting.  

Random thoughts: 
  • Wesley Johnson will be a nice pro and make a decent impact in his first year in the league.  He's also not worth the 4th pick.  Forget all of the mindless speculation, obfuscation, and smokescreens you have heard over the past month or so about the guy.  2 years ago he was doing this and that's exactly why you never heard of him before the season began. He had 2 very good months at Syracuse followed by some ups and downs. That's not worth the 4th pick, no matter how much Doug Collins blabbers on about the kid.  If the Wolves take Johnson at 4, they've lost some value on their selection.  
  • Evan Turner is not worth selling the farm for.  If I had to pull the lever in the draft, I'd side with the take that part of what made Turner so special was the fact that he was huge for his position and he had a massive usage rate.  If you take away the size advantage and the usage rate, I'm not sure he has the tools to distinguish himself to the extent that you should go all Reggie Williams on the draft and walk away with one guy.  He is definitely in the top tier of players. However, he's not better than something like DMC + Luke Babbitt + name your 3rd player.  Again, the Wolves are guaranteed one of the top tier players in this draft and they should use their remaining assets to obtain the top guy on their board or the best 2nd tier wing player they can get their hands on.  
  • Official drinking game for the night (via Rasho Revolution): Drink every time an analyst says that Minnesota drafted 3 point guards last year, including Ty Lawson.
  • Over/under for Chad Ford rumors and backtracks between now and when the draft begins: 3. 
  • Number of words Bill Simmons writes in his live draft blog before making a crack about David Kahn and the Wolves: 14. 
  • Approximate cosmic mass of the grudge Billy Simmons holds against David Kahn for getting a job that Simmons believes himself to be more qualified for: 785.3 cubic feet.  
  • I'm not sure what else Kahn has done to deserve some of the vitriol dolled out by the likes of Simmons and Adrian Wojnarowski.  In Simmons' latest chat wrap and in Woj's latest screed, their beefs seem to be either complete fabrications (Kahn said Favors was out of shape), weird emotional conclusions (he's mean to everybody), or flat-out misinterpretations of fact (Simmons does it best when he says that Ricky went back to Europe because the Wolves drafted a PG...right before he hammers Kahn for drafting the wrong PG while ignoring what Curry said at the time as well as the sticky buyout issue).  This isn't to say that I think Kahn will do a good job (I have no idea what the team is going to do) or that I have a lot of confidence (I don't).  Rather, it is to claim that Kahn has been a lightening rod who has brought out the very worst in national sports media coverage: over-the-top speculation, anonymous sources, writers inserting their own voice into the record in order to prove a point, and on and on and on. It's almost as if David Kahn has been cast as the villain in the play version of Simmons' Pyramid of Basketball Success. You know, his self-made system of ranking players in an imaginary hall of fame that he amends according to the voices in his own head and from which no usable data could be obtained or, you know, transfered to the day-to-day duties of a f'ing NBA GM.  I like Simmons.  He is an entertaining writer.  Unfortunately, he's also a piss poor grudge holder and, to continue the play analogy, he's one of those guys who wants to be billed above the actors.  In my imaginary ranking system of historical artists, he's the Andrew Lloyd Weber of professional basketball writing.  
  • I can't shake the feeling that the Wolves will end up with Lance Stephenson.  
  • My bust picks: Aminu, Udoh, Henry, James, Orton, and Paul George. 
  • Player combos I'd be willing to overlook passing on DMC for: Favors + Johnson, Favors + Babbitt, Turner + Aldrich.  Anything else would have to involve an established NBA player.  
  • My best guess as to what the Wolves want to do: Favors + Johnson and a crack at Paul George.  David Kahn is 150% in on Ricky Rubio and it influences every part of their roster. They want to go big, long, and athletic.  They want guys who can rebound and run.  They want guys who can go up and down the court and catch ally-oops.  If they could pull it off, a trio of Favors, Johnson, and George would be an insanely long and athletic grouping.  
  • Something in the back of my mind tells me that the team's stance towards DMC is an elaborate bluff to ensure he's available at 4.  
  • Don't be surprised if the Wolves take a player and wait a few days (even longer) to move him.   This will be a tough PR move if the trade involves the 4th pick but if it does, we'll have to wait for the outcome.  This off season is a long process.  I'm willing to give them that much and to have that much patience.  My deadline for OKC Thunderdom is the trade deadline.  That's where I say goodbye if they are still worried more about ticket pitches than actually putting together a winning team.  
  • How I think the Wolves will flub the draft in McHaleian fashion: Wes Johnson at 4 and then cashing out the remainder of their picks for Ekpe Udoh. 
  • FWIW, I liked the rumored Memphis/Minny deal.  I'd trade Al, 16, and 23 in a heartbeat for Z-Bo and 12.  Randolph would never step inside of Target Center and he'd trim 2 years off of Jefferson's increasingly ugly contract.  Also, it would move them up into Babbitt/Aldrich range with their 2nd pick wile removing the pick that is in no-man's land from the equation.   Z-Bo is crazy but that deal is not.  Not in the least.  It would be yet another fleecing of Memphis.  
  • Speaking of Big Al, I hope it is becoming more and more clear why I soured on the guy before the knee injury.  He's not a functional two way player.  He's not a legitimate offensive threat on 90% of the court.  He can't pass.  He doesn't defend.  He has a dinosaur offensive game.  This isn't to say he doesn't have worth.  It's just not on the Wolves nor for that salary.  Kahn was being charitable by saying he was a 2nd option on a championship team.  Maybe he was talking about the men's league at the local Y, but in the NBA, a guy like Jefferson (and Z-Bo) is a special kind of player.  He's almost like a big man version of an off-the-bench energy guy.  A situational scorer in the front court.  He's the Randy Foye of big men.  He can do one thing on offense pretty well and it doesn't involve anybody else on his team.  Randy had his kamikaze drives down the right side of the lane.  Big Al has his low left block.  My big worry with him right now is that the team has completely overvalued his worth and will end up on the outside looking in when it comes down to using him to make a trade for a wing or an additional draft pick.  I get that he's coming off an injury but he's also 25 years old entering his 7th NBA season with nearly 12,000 minutes on the tires.  It's time for the team to cut their losses on the guy and move on with whatever they can.  His value is going nowhere but down from here on out, especially when you consider the value that Kevin Love brings to the table at the same position for much, much, much fewer dollars and minutes played.  Yes, it sucks to come to the realization that once again Kevin McHale locked in a player to a contract well above his production level, but here we are and it's time to move on. 
  • Whatever happens, I'll be kind of upset if the team doesn't use one of their power forwards and one of their point guards in a trade for a higher pick and/or an established player.  Between Jefferson, Love, Jonny Flynn, Ramon Sessions, Ricky Rubio, and Nikola Pekovic, the Wolves should be able to get a nice asset or two in return while maintaining solid proficiency at the 1 and 4.  
Welllllllll....on that note it's time to wrap this little ditty up.  Turner, Cousins, Favors or bust.  We'll have updates throughout the day tomorrow along with open threads throughout the draft.  Don't forget to follow us at Twitter.  Our twittag for the night will be #hoopusdraft and you can hit us up at @canishoopus 

Until later. 

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I believe he said something about this

in an earlier thread as well.

FWIW, I completely disagree. I don’t see bust written on a guy who could easily find a role as a shooter in this league with occasional slashing abilities and uptempo potential. But hey, could definitely be wrong!

Buckeyes are red, Wildcats are blue,
I wanted Evan Turner, But DeMarcus Cousins will do.

by Mplax on Jun 24, 2010 1:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

Let's just say....

….that I don’t think he has a solid enough track record to take him high and that I would have liked to see another year out of him. He certainly looks the part.

Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 24, 2010 6:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

What's wrong with his track record?

Buckeyes are red, Wildcats are blue,
I wanted Evan Turner, But DeMarcus Cousins will do.

by Mplax on Jun 24, 2010 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

I imagine

It’s that during his 1 year he showed to be a shooter with little else to his game.

Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."

by Xand1 on Jun 24, 2010 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah...

..it’s not there. He just hasn’t shown one way or another that he’s a pro player. Not enough info.

Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 24, 2010 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

I guess I see the point about that

but I still like the fact that he came in to a championship ready team and did what he was asked to do as well as any of them. Draftexpress, in their SFs by the numbers deal, put Xavier “in the middle of the pack” with guys like Wes Johnson, Gordon Hayward, and Al Farouq Aminu. Consider the usage of Xavier compared to these three guys, I’d say that’s not half bad. In addition, I think he knows how to play out of his Kansas style (for lack of an actual word for that) because, and I guess I’m just guessing here, he was probably “the man” in highschool.

For me, it comes down to the fact that he has the tools and he played his role as well as could have been expected of a freshman on that Kansas team. Like I said though, I can see both sides of this coin. I just give him the benefit of the doubt and don’t have any issues with not giving him that if it would cost us the 7th pick or so.

Buckeyes are red, Wildcats are blue,
I wanted Evan Turner, But DeMarcus Cousins will do.

by Mplax on Jun 24, 2010 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Problem is

we still don’t know if he’s more than a 1-dimensional shooter because that’s all he showed us last year. He might have the tools, but they weren’t on display.

Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."

by Xand1 on Jun 24, 2010 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yep

Like I said I understand the problem, but I tend to give a guy who was touted as the…. fourth or fifth best freshman one and done prospect (Those numbers just got pulled out of… well… yeah. We’ll just call it a reasonable guess) coming into the year… Anyways, I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt that these guys aren’t usually thought of that highly because of their ability to hit an open jumper really well. And when I did watch them, I usually saw Xavier playing hard and giving his full effort, playing within the system. Saw a couple nice transition plays and a nice cut or two (IIRC, one he drove in a had a nice dish). Anywho, I think he fills a role on every team in the league and if he can’t do more, damn. If he can, awesome! I could deal with him at the 7th pick (I’d be ok with him and George, but I’d prefer Xavier), but I can understand others not wanting to.

But really what it comes down to: How awesome is that name?! We’d sound like a Spanish League soccer team:

Rubio with the ball.
Passes to Fernandez.
Fernandez to Xavier.
Xavier back to Rubio.
Rubio puts the ball into action.
Rubio draws the extra defender and kicks it out to Xavier.
GOOOOOAAAAA…. ummm….. THREEEEEEEEEEEE!

Buckeyes are red, Wildcats are blue,
I wanted Evan Turner, But DeMarcus Cousins will do.

by Mplax on Jun 24, 2010 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Also, I think there's a good chance we'll be very active in trades tomorrow

Seems like everyone’s waiting to see how the order goes first. Don’t want to be this year’s Wizards, trading a pick then having a Ricky Rubio fall down the ladder. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if we end up with Both Favors and Johnson. Or Cousins and Johnson, for that matter, even if the Wolves have sounded reluctant about him.

by Oceanary on Jun 24, 2010 12:36 AM CDT reply actions  

Can anyone think of another Wolves guard whose name could go in the blanks?

“He’s the _ of big men. He can do one thing on offense pretty well and it doesn’t involve anybody else on his team. _ has his kamikaze drives down the right side of the lane. Big Al has his low left block.”

by LoveTo on Jun 24, 2010 12:52 AM CDT reply actions  

J Fly...

even though i’m not sure what the one thing he does pretty well. seems kinda like an average joe of all trades (?)

by NuthinBurger on Jun 24, 2010 1:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

The only mention of Seraphin

in the entire post, was the fact that he got voted in at 20… that saddens me.

And yes, I will be hounding the fact that we should have made this selection until he busts. Sounds like a great Favors hedge. And a perfect fit with Rubio and on an uptempo squad (with great PF length and could spot time at the C)

Buckeyes are red, Wildcats are blue,
I wanted Evan Turner, But DeMarcus Cousins will do.

by Mplax on Jun 24, 2010 1:09 AM CDT reply actions  

I have no idea...

…what to do with international big men. My ratings system only works with college guys. It’s the same reason Rubio wasn’t on the list last year. I have no idea how to rate them.

Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 24, 2010 6:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

Finally some backup on my “compare Johnson’s stats from 2 years back instead of those from this year”-mantra. Thx SnP!

With that Memphis trade. Do you mean acquireing Z-BO with the intention of trading him? I’m sold on trading Jefferson and I definitly agree the 16th + 23 pick is waaaaay less interesting than the 12 (good chance of getting george or Henry) but if we only save money on Jefferson .. We’d have to get something in return for Z-BO..

Official Kahn/Rambis band-wagon rider since 2009

by Wim (Belgium) on Jun 24, 2010 1:25 AM CDT reply actions  

way *more* interesting ... obviously

Official Kahn/Rambis band-wagon rider since 2009

by Wim (Belgium) on Jun 24, 2010 1:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

No the Z-Bo

is because I guess he’s facing Jailtime and they’re banking on him going to jail or they’ll just do what they did with Marc Blount.

I love Twins Baseball and Minnesota Vikings Football.

by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Jun 24, 2010 1:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

well, that’s not enough for me. I want more in return for Jefferson. If we can get a future pick or so .. then ok.

Official Kahn/Rambis band-wagon rider since 2009

by Wim (Belgium) on Jun 24, 2010 3:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't care what they would do with Z-Bo...

…as long as he never enters the state of Minnesota. They could do with him what they did with Marc Blount.

Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 24, 2010 6:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

Jefferson's Value

So you basically want to trade te 16 and Jefferson for the 12? I know some fans overvalue him but talk about selling low. I agree with your take on his offensive game but you seemed to have completely left out the fact that he was a top level rebounder. I think that Memphis rumor was just the Griz throwing some meat to the Media Jackals.

by jama on Jun 24, 2010 7:15 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

I think that's the best they will get...

…for just including Jefferson and taking back a 1 year player. If they can get Prince and 7 with just giving up 16, 23 and Big Al, I’m all for that, but I think they’ll have to sweeten the pot to make it work. I can’t make this point enough: his value goes even lower with Derrick Favors on the roster. If they draft Favors, they have to move him today. What team is going to give the Wolves fair value when they have Love, Jefferson, Pekovic and Favors in their pocket? They’re stuck even more than they are right now. They need to shave 2 years of of his increasingly ridiculous contract while getting a higher pick and no salary commitments beyond the end of this year (unless he’s a stud player). That’s a success. As for the rebounding, it is immediately replaced and then some with more minutes from Love and either Favors or Cousins. He’s not going to be that missed in terms of the on court production on a 15 win team.

Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 24, 2010 7:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Good discussion between Barry and Van Gundy on this...

Barry: How can Minnesota afford to trade away its best player?

Van Gundy: They won 15 games with him. It can’t get much worse than that.

— I don’t want us to trade Jefferson just for the sake of doing it, but if we draft Favors, he’ll have to be traded in the near-future. If the deals are not good right now, I’d just start him, hope he’s dropping 20 & 10’s like it’s 2008, and ditch him for more value at the deadline.

by Andy G on Jun 24, 2010 7:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

You don't think

we can work out a Jefferson/Iguodala deal? Or take a similar contract to Jefferson that fits our team better? For instance Deng, Gerald Wallace, or Caron Butler.

The jump from 12 to 16 doesn’t seem that big.

by Jerwol on Jun 24, 2010 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

If we deal Jefferson for Igoudala...

I’d give them Gomes for cap relief, and make them give us back Thad Young and/or Speights.
I’ve heard they don’t plan on resigning Young, so I could see them doing that.

Check out Humdinger TV on YouTube.
http://twitter.com/HumdingerTV

by HumdingerTV on Jun 24, 2010 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

If we deal Jefferson for Igoudala

I would not make them do anything, except make the deal official and then run from the room squealing with joy.

by aarendsvark on Jun 24, 2010 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

I’m not sure Chicago would trade us Deng for Al straight-up at this point. They have opportunity to move Deng to Clippers (or similar situation) to clear cap space for a LeBron/Bosh run.

by TWolvesFanInLA on Jun 24, 2010 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

Get rid of Love

Keep Jefferson, Love is a scrub that is over valued and we could get much more for him. Jefferson is top 25 player in the league and SnP has some crazy vendetta against him as I felt like I was reading Simmons all over again talk about Kahn.

by TheMorningAfter on Jun 24, 2010 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't

And I think the problem comes from the Wolves end. They want to get rid of the last 2 years on Jefferson’s contract. That’s why he’s getting moved…along with the front court logjam. This is a loud and clear message to fans that they aren’t going to win in the next 2-3 years. Jefferson is worthless to them. He’s a win-now type of player who needs good and developed guys around him to cover his many flaws. They’re not going to take on salary for 2011 and 2012 in a Jefferson trade.

Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 24, 2010 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

The Wolves need to spend money on something

Were already well under the cap, no reason to clear out even more room at this point.

And if we really do want to trade for an expiring, I think we can do better than Z-Bo.

Jefferson for Caron makes sense for both teams, Dallas needs low post scoring and Cuban doesn’t care about adding salary.

I also think Jefferson will make a nice consolation prize for teams that strikeout in free agency.

by Jerwol on Jun 24, 2010 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Couldn't a plausible explanation for that also be

that they couldn’t find their guy at the wing spots to trade for so instead they decided to trade him for cap space so they could use that to facilitate more trades next summer and even possibly sign a guy like Gay without the same issues? Not that I support them overpaying Gay with or without Jefferson, but it’s easier with Jefferson off the books or without a guy like Deng as well.

Buckeyes are red, Wildcats are blue,
I wanted Evan Turner, But DeMarcus Cousins will do.

by Mplax on Jun 24, 2010 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

I sure hope you're right

about us taking Cousins. A month ago I was completely depressed about landing the #4 pick and having to settle for Cousins. But somehow that crazy bastard has brainwashed me to the point that I’ll be sad if we end up with Favors instead, and downright disappointed if we take Wes Johnson over him.

by Jerwol on Jun 24, 2010 1:38 AM CDT reply actions  

Cousins! Cousins! Cousins!

Had to get that in one final time before the draft.

Wall – Will be a stud

Turner - High Floor, Moderate Ceiling, solid pick in the top 4 but I wouldn’t mortgage the team for him.

Favors - Who the hell knows? Played on a weird team for a bad coach for one year. Seems like a very good roll of the dice.

Cousins – Historically great year. Immature, but not in a scary way. If I had to bet, he’ll be the best player from this draft 5 years from now. Think Moses Malone.

Johnson – Ceiling is Richard Jefferson IF he maxes out his talent – yuck. No thanks at the 4th pick. Not bad in the 8-12 range though. There is a reason 3 GMs had him ranked 9th, Hollinger ranks him 11th, SnP has him 13th and HoopsAnalyst has him as “not much more than a good supporting player.”.

In the modern NCAA era where the best players leave college after 1 or 2 years, you’d better be AMAZING as a 23 year old or you’re not likely to be great in the pros. Johnson was very good.

Don’t confuse mock drafts and rankings – lots of people have Johnson at 4th or 5th in their mock drafts.That doesn’t mean they’ve done any analysis or ranked the players, they’re just guessing who will pick who.

by Django Z on Jun 24, 2010 2:30 AM CDT reply actions  

Here's the thing about Cousins

To my knowledge, we still haven’t brought him in for a workout. Do we really put up such an elaborate smokescreen that we never even check him out up close and personal? Also, why bother? It’s not like any of the 3 teams above us ever gave him serious consideration. He is and has been ours for the taking. I’d love for you to be right about it, Stop-n-Pop, but I just don’t see it.

Other thoughts/predictions:
-This comments section is going to get huge. I think I’ll start a separate FanPost for people to post their personal Wolves big boards for the sake of less clutter.
-Kahn will get ripped no matter who he takes at 4. Wes Johnson = future role player. Favors = another PF? Cousins = headcase, future bust.
-If we’re going to say that Al has one skill, can he at least get credit for the fact that it’s the rarest and most coveted skill in all of basketball? And maybe a mention of his rebounding?
-I don’t care how low your opinion Jefferson is, it doesn’t justify saying you like that deal. Even if you think he’s less than worthless to us, he isn’t to other teams. Assuming 12 for 16 and 23 is at least a wash, you’re saying the best we can do is Jefferson for an expiring contract that actually costs us 2010 cap space? Come on, that can’t be true. You don’t think a team like Detroit would give us something of value for him? We couldn’t use him to move Hollins off the books? You couldn’t wait until some teams have struck out in free agency and trade him in a deal where they use some raw cap space to absorb him?

by John Doe on Jun 24, 2010 6:28 AM CDT reply actions  

Actually, I should probably ask

Was your intention for people to post their draft boards here? I don’t want to step on your toes by starting a different thread for it when this one is titled Final 2010 Draft Board.

by John Doe on Jun 24, 2010 6:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

Whatever works

I have very short toes. ;) I’m hoping that people put up as many draft boards as possible so we can average everything out with the Hoopus Community Draft Board after it’s all said and done with. I want as much crowdsourcing as possible.

Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 24, 2010 6:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

Alright, cool

With your blessing, I’ll set it up. This way we can get everybody’s take in one place, so we’ll have something to reference when 6 months from now, everyone wants to say “I told you so” regarding whichever prospect outperforms his draft slot.

by John Doe on Jun 24, 2010 6:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sounds good.

Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 24, 2010 6:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

This is just a guess...

…but one of the weird things about the workouts I was able to attend this year was that I got the sense that teams are very good about sharing with one another in these sorts of settings. If a team wants a peak at another player, I don’t think anybody from another team will turn them down.

As for Jefferson, we’ll just have to wait and see what his value is. I don’t think it’s as high as any of us would expect. The proof will be in the pudding because I think they are doing everything they can to move the guy. He’s not worthless to other teams, he’s just of a lower value than what we’ve come to believe the guy who replaced KG would be. They need to move him before they take Favors. His value will be even lower with Favors on the books. Favors, Love, and Pekovic….that completely reduces Kahn’s leverage with moving Jefferson. It needs to be done before the draft.

Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 24, 2010 6:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

Completely agree that the proof will be in the pudding with Jefferson. Kahn is working hard to trade him. Whether that happens today or in a SaT, I believe Kahn will have exhausted every possibility so we’ll get the best of the offers. Personally, I’d trade Al for some version of the Prince + 7 option today. If we can’t do better than that, I’d probably hold him for a SaT option or to a team that misses out on their FA targets this summer.

by TWolvesFanInLA on Jun 24, 2010 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Kahn Damned if he do, Damned if he don't
Kahn will get ripped no matter who he takes at 4. Wes Johnson = future role player. Favors = another PF? Cousins = headcase, future bust.


Very good point. He was sort of in the same situation in last year’s draft with Rubio at #5. If he passes on him, he passes on what NBA analysts would call a “once in a life-time talent”. He did take him and everyone says “what is he thinking, Rubio’s heading back to Spain and he may never play with the Wolves”.

Kahn’s got a bull’s eye on his back for criticism right now.

by MarlonMaxeyEra on Jun 24, 2010 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

The gut feelings of a rather ample gut

Outstanding post, SnP. Expert analysis from a guy I consider to be among the most knowledgeable (and under-appreciated) NBA bloggers on the ‘net. And he’s our very own!

A few subjective thoughts grounded in nothing more substantial than intuition:

—Tony Ronzone will play a huge role in how this all plays out, especially with the second anf fourth bulleted items below.

-The trade with Detroit-Jefferson, 16, and 23 for 7, Prince, and Wilcox—will happen.

—There is a strong possibility that Philadelphia will shock the world by picking Cousins. If so, NJ will pick Turner and the Wolves will pick Favors.

-If the first three picks play out as forecast-Wall, Turner, and Favors—the Wolves WILL pick Cousins.

—Wes Johnson will fall to 7, where the Wolves will pick him.

by kurosawa on Jun 24, 2010 6:48 AM CDT reply actions  

Danke...

…and I hope your intuition is right….especially with Wes Johnson at 7.

Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 24, 2010 6:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

Johnson at 7...

is one bold prediction. On ESPN’s show last night, panel and reporters, the overwhelming feeling was that New Jersey is taking Johnson. Maybe it’s all a big “smokescreen” (most over-used term the past month?) or maybe it’s based on the reality. I’ll get a kick out of it if Wes goes there. There have been some wild comments made about those who prefer Johnson to Cousins. It’ll be enlightening if Johnson is preferred by New Jersey, Minnesota and perhaps Sacramento, to Cousins. That said, I doubt DC falls past #5. Sounds like he impressed at Sacramento.

by Andy G on Jun 24, 2010 7:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Cousins + Evans =

The Wolves get bullied around for the next 10 years.

Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 24, 2010 7:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

It would also say a lot...

….about Sacramento’s ability and willingness to deal with a guy like DMC on an organizational level that is well above and beyond the cute little whatever the Wolves have going on. It might be yet another reason they’re happy they passed on Rambis (or he on them).

Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 24, 2010 7:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't be too quick...

…to portray Rambis as soft. Unless it was done on orders from Kahn to showcase Al for a trade, I thought Rambis came down fairly tough on Love at the end of the season.

by kurosawa on Jun 24, 2010 7:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not soft...

…just not willing to deal with potential trouble. I think Rambis is smart and a good coach. I also think he doesn’t want a headache and that’s kind of disappointing when we’re talking about 15 win teams and BPAs.

Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 24, 2010 7:41 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

What would say anything about Sac's "ability" to deal with DMC...

drafting him?

They’ll only show their ability to deal with him when he’s making All-Star teams, extending his contract there and staying cool with the coach. Drafting him is the easy part and says nothing about Sacramento’s organization other than, yes, their willingness to deal with a guy like DMC. Not ability.

by Andy G on Jun 24, 2010 7:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

Jonathan Givony and Chad Ford were making the point yesterday in a pod cast that a Evans/DMC locker room will be tough to manage. Apparently, there were a lot of grumblings from other Kings players that Evans is tough to play with.

by TWolvesFanInLA on Jun 24, 2010 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Guess who it's going to be tougher on:

the players on the other team. Picture for yourself the matchups November’s Wolves would attempt to employ against a Kings roster with ‘Reke and Cousins bullying them physically. Does Wes Johnson’s sweet shot make up for that? You think?

If Sacramento can keep ‘em on the floor, that’s going to be painful to watch.

"People do not seem to realize that their opinion of the world is also a confession of character."

by feral on Jun 24, 2010 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

Cousins + Evans =

the other 10 guys on Sacramento get bullied around for the next 10 years.

That could be a great tandem or a toxic one. It sounds like there’s a damn-near 100 percent chance that we’re going to find out, after New Jersey takes Favors or Johnson, then Minnesota takes the other.

by Andy G on Jun 24, 2010 7:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

The best players...

…don’t bully their lessers? Since when?

Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 24, 2010 7:43 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Yeah, for a minute there

I thought Andy G had become a proponent of Cousins.

Jordan punching guys in practice, KG screaming at Rondo during a time-out (with a TV camera two feet away) and making “Big Baby”‘s nickname literal—I’ve heard time and time again that one of LeBron’s biggest downfalls is the sense of camaraderie he has with his teammates. Most of the dominant franchises of the last 30 years (Lakers, Celtics, Bulls had stars who scared the lesser players on to greatness.

by PoorDick on Jun 24, 2010 8:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, not really what I was going for...

I don’t think Cousins is a bully or a leader, for that matter. I’ve put a lot of stock into Jay Bilas’s unbiased and well-founded opinion that he developed after working with Cousins at camps. He talked in more depth than ever about it, last night, describing how Cousins doesn’t seem like he wants to be there, when he’s being coached. He repeats over and over that Cousins is a good kid, but just that — he’s a kid, he’s really immature, and the team that drafts him is going to need a babysitter. To me, pairing Cousins with a former driver in a drive-by shooting doesn’t reek of “THE NEXT GREAT DUO!!!” Evans and Cousins have their checkered pasts, for very different reasons. Maybe they’ll both grow up in a hurry — maybe Evans already has.

But then again, maybe not. I’d take Cousins at 5, but not at 4.

by Andy G on Jun 24, 2010 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

my problem is

that I won’t take Wes at 4, but would at 5. So you have two players that a lot of people have in the same bucket. Would love him at five, but I don’t know about 4. At the end we all default to our basic draft logic. Damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.

by TheEvilProfessor on Jun 24, 2010 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, what?

You’d take him at 5, not at 4? That makes no sense whatsoever.

“Sure, Charlie Manson would slit your throat at a moment’s notice. But that didn’t stop me from enjoying a nice round of golf with him once in a while.”

by PoorDick on Jun 24, 2010 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sure it does, Dick.

I think there’s a big talent dropoff after Cousins at 5. I’d be happy to add Wes Johnson, though.

If the Wolves picked 5th and 1-4 went Wall, Turner, Favors, Johnson, I would take Cousins.

Not everything is black and white — it’s about weighing pros and cons, risks and rewards. At 4, with Wes Johnson or Derrick Favors on the board, I would pass on Cousins. At 5, if the alternative were Monroe, Aminu, etc., I’d go Cousins.

Hope that clears up any confusion.

by Andy G on Jun 24, 2010 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think most of us are in that position

at some point in the draft. For me it is 4, and it is 5 for a lot of others. I think I might have a hangover tomorrow morning…and not the good kind.

No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.

by TheEvilProfessor on Jun 24, 2010 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Now now, no need to name call....


oh.

Buckeyes are red, Wildcats are blue,
I wanted Evan Turner, But DeMarcus Cousins will do.

by Mplax on Jun 24, 2010 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ahem. Bilas's considered opinion changes back and forth.

Bilas has also said quite contradictory stuff about how he’d have to seriously consider Cousins at #2 overall.

But, if Wall were gone, I would have to weigh the selection of Cousins with the culture I was trying to build. At some level, his downside is worth the risk. At No. 2, I would have to weigh that very carefully. Cousins is a great young prospect. I have worked with him during his high school years, and he can be as good as he wants to be. But, he does have some attitude and maturity issues he needs to grow out of or otherwise address. If he does that, and he is still young and certainly can, he can be an NBA All-Star for a lot of years.

"People do not seem to realize that their opinion of the world is also a confession of character."

by feral on Jun 24, 2010 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Is Bilas running for office?

He also was very high on Tyrus Thomas a few drafts ago. “Best prospect in the draft” etc. He wasn’t able to gauge any immaturity issues there

I hear we're giving up a 2nd rounder in 2014 and Cash Considerations for Sonny Weems! WOW!

by Son of Gerald Green on Jun 24, 2010 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

This doesn't get talked about much...

…but they already have a babysitter:

Amy Peterson is in her 10th season with the Timberwolves and her first season as Director of Team Operations. Peterson’s responsibilities include handling the day-to-day activities of the basketball department, including serving as a liaison between the business department and basketball operations, assisting with contract administration, carrying out NBA initiatives, and coordinating all individual business travel needs. A vital part of her duties include assisting players with personal, professional and social development and helping new players and their families with relocation and integration to the community.

Derrick Martin too. This is why you pay people good money to help with player development. This is why you pay coaches buckets of money to handle problematic personalities and situations. Cousins doesn’t have a checkered past anymore than I do. I threw a bag of ice at my high school coach and got into 3 fights during high school. I got into numerous arguments with teachers and authority figures. There are a million kids who act like Cousins and it’s not remotely in the same league as being a checkered past. The guy is a goofball who is about to make a lot of money and provide for his entire family as a teenager. Name me another profession where it isn’t a given that teenagers need mentoring should they be gifted enough to contribute.

Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 24, 2010 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

agreed

We commonly lose sight of the fact that these are not college graduates who have been business professionals for a couple years and had the edges ground off. Yes, you need to do research, but more importantly you have to care as a team in order to get any payday off of anyone. Does Taylor care about his players? That should be a bigger question, because if he doesn’t, it doesn’t matter who the wolves draft.

No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.

by TheEvilProfessor on Jun 24, 2010 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

If Jersey takes Johnson 3rd overall, that'll be shocking.

That absolutely screams smokescreen to me. The only rationale by which that would be explainable is the “We’ve got to win a championship in 5 years” thing, on the grounds that they feel somehow certain they’ll add Boozer or whoever.

Does Prokhorov seem like a “Take the safe choice” sort to you?

I’d love to see it happen, obviously.

"People do not seem to realize that their opinion of the world is also a confession of character."

by feral on Jun 24, 2010 7:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'd imagine that NJ plans on adding a free agent power forward...

Avery Johnson knows that he can win with Devin Harris at point guard. He probably likes Brook Lopez at center. Prok will aggressively pursue free agents like Bosh, Amar’e, and Boozer, not to mention LeBron. Add Derrick Favors to that, and you still need to find a starter for the next season or two. Add Wes Johnson and you’ve got a wing that’s ready to play on a contender, now. It’s easy to sell free agents on playing with Wes Johnson. Not so much on “this Favors guy is only 18… just wait until he’s 21 or 22… he’s going to be really special.”

by Andy G on Jun 24, 2010 7:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's not Favors vs. Johnson

It’s Favors and Rudy Gay vs. Johnson and Boozer (or Bosh, or Lee, or Amare).

I don’t agree with the logic, but at least it sorta makes sense. If the gap between Boozer and Gay is bigger than the gap between Favors and Johnson, you take Johnson. There’s also the concern that Gay’s offer sheet gets matched, whereas there are four quality PFs available, all unrestricted.

by John Doe on Jun 24, 2010 7:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

I was in the same boat...

Until thinking about it: who can New Jersey reasonably expect to get with their cap space? They’ve probably been asking around about these players and trying to figure that out. Most free-agent speculation has centered around the greater likelihood that they get an All-Star-but-not-superstar with their cap space, and two of the bigger names there are obviously Boozer and Stoudemire. I don’t expect it to happen, but I think the talk about Johnson going there is less about a smokescreen and at least somewhat about fit.

by pagingstanleyroberts on Jun 24, 2010 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

Isn't there at least a chance...

That the reason the Wolves don’t take Cousins has more to do with Glen Taylor and Rob Moor than Kahn and Rambis? Rambis just told Grandpa Sid how good the Artest move was for the Lakers, and there have been more than whispers that the business side of this franchise has had its hand in personnel decisions in the past.

by pagingstanleyroberts on Jun 24, 2010 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

Your gut must really like the Wolves

Can you ask it why it sees Golden State passing on Johnson, a SF and the BPA at 6, when they just traded away Maggette?

by John Doe on Jun 24, 2010 7:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

My gut...

…happens to agree with John Hollinger: Wes Johnson is a very good but not great player who is properly slotted between 7 and 10. Some think, by virtue of his age (three-plus years younger than Johnson) and athleticism, that Aminu is the superior SF prospect.

Now, will GS agree? Maybe; maybe not. Remember, this is my gut talking.

by kurosawa on Jun 24, 2010 7:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Fair enough

Aminu could actually fit there. If they go with Curry/Morrow long term (which they should, Monta is balls), they could afford a nonshooter at SF. I see now where your gut is coming from.

by John Doe on Jun 24, 2010 7:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed that GSW would probably take Wes at 6.

by TWolvesFanInLA on Jun 24, 2010 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed that GSW would probably take Wes at 6.

by TWolvesFanInLA on Jun 24, 2010 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

"Cousins + Evans = getting bullied around?"

Don’t follow you.

First, who is Evans? Did you mean Turner?

And how could a draft that netted Cousins and Turner allow for bullying?

by kurosawa on Jun 24, 2010 7:31 AM CDT reply actions  

Here's hoping you are right on the Cousins bluff

Between Love, Cousins, Darko, the frontcourt rotation could be locked down for the next 5-8 years. If they pass on this for Wes with the questions marks out there (age, one year of productivity at that age), it will be an enormous letdown.

by Punisher#8 on Jun 24, 2010 8:45 AM CDT reply actions  

Excellent summary and lead in to the draft.

Thank you for the great post, and a place to work out those pre-draft anxieties. I am like you in the fact that I see all of the last several years aimed at this off season. The cap space is for now. The draft picks are for now. The team assets need to be burned now. The final result, by trade deadline at the very least, is a functional, balanced team, that has an obvious growth curve toward a winning franchise… and one that might just be enjoyable to watch play. I know that we will probably still need to wait and see on Rubio, see him in the uni and see how his vision and skills translate, but we need to see the Wolves lock into a team, a solid rotation, this year.

I am hoping to see the Wolves very active today. I am hoping to see them use picks and assets to bring back better picks or players. I fully expect that the Wolves will only just be started when today ends, but I want to see a lot of somethings set into motion.

by Krotz the Wall on Jun 24, 2010 8:45 AM CDT reply actions  

I think there could be a vicious circle going on here

1. Al doesn’t fit with the Wolves plans
2. Al is injured/overpaid, so the Wolves can’t move him for a wing
3. Cousins is similar to Al
4. The team’s distaste for Al colors how they feel about Cousins
5. Since the Wolves can’t move Al, they won’t draft Cousins

by PoorDick on Jun 24, 2010 9:51 AM CDT reply actions  

What cracks me up about all this Kahn talk

Is the connection between these two rumors:

A) Kahn is seen as an easy mark and everyone is trying to take advantage of him.

AND

B) Kahn is abrasive and mean in negotiations

Did anyone ever think that B) is a direct result of A), i.e. he’s sick of people calling up with retarded trade offers. Think about it:

Kahn picks up the phone
 Indiana: “David! Hey, how’s it going champ? Boy have I got a deal for you! How about Troy Murphy and TJ Ford for Al Jefferson. We’ll even do you a solid and take one of those 14 PGs you drafted last year off your hands for nothing!”
Kahn: “Go screw yourself”
Indiana: “Fine, you don’t have to be so mean about it, you abrasive asshole!”

Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."

by Xand1 on Jun 24, 2010 10:54 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Yes, I think you're on to something

Part of it is probably Kahn acting tough, but I would get sick of the patronizing, too.

by PoorDick on Jun 24, 2010 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

Speaking of which

were you still interested in giving me $10 for that rare $2 bill I have?

Did I mention they’re rare?

Buckeyes are red, Wildcats are blue,
I wanted Evan Turner, But DeMarcus Cousins will do.

by Mplax on Jun 24, 2010 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

How's 'bout

I give you four quarters for your one $2 bill? Any fool knows that four is more than one.

by PoorDick on Jun 24, 2010 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's a ripoff

gosh. You don’t have to be so mean about you. You abrasive asshole!

Buckeyes are red, Wildcats are blue,
I wanted Evan Turner, But DeMarcus Cousins will do.

by Mplax on Jun 24, 2010 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

about it*

dang…

Buckeyes are red, Wildcats are blue,
I wanted Evan Turner, But DeMarcus Cousins will do.

by Mplax on Jun 24, 2010 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Love your Random Thoughts section

Even if your Bust list looks strangely like the “guys Casper likes” list (well, we agree on Aminu/Orton).

I’m going to get wasted tonight if I play your drinking game… and I’m not talking Chocolate Wasted.

Check out my NBA Draft blog:
http://casperkid23.blogspot.com/

by Casperkid23 on Jun 24, 2010 12:01 PM CDT reply actions  

You did not

Just reference Grown Ups

Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."

by Xand1 on Jun 24, 2010 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

How can you not LOVE that line?

I might watch that movie just for this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33giL9jLxvs

Check out my NBA Draft blog:
http://casperkid23.blogspot.com/

by Casperkid23 on Jun 24, 2010 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

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