BE's season review of Martel Webster
The good folks at Blazer's Edge give the run-down on Webster.
almost 2 years ago
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I like this trade.
Wanted us to get Martell a year ago, and now that Pritchard is gone, it was able to happen. They had a logjam at that position and we stepped in and acted on it.
wrong..
…pritchard pulled the trigger. he turned down kahn earlier this off season and then raked him over the coals for 16 and the non guaranteed contract of gomes. it was a robbery on his way out the door. portland had kahn pegged as an easy mark from day one.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
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they also don't have a logjam...
…batum has an injured shoulder, outlaw is gone, and fernandez is probably on his way out. they just restocked for less with the stupid wolves trade. unbelievable.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Got to love...
…acquiring bench players who need to play at least 20 minutes a game to be anything close to effective. Kahn is a moron.
Even granting your predilection for mediocre wings,
no matter how you slice it, the Wolves badly overpaid. It’s as if they dealt two pieces of genuine value in order to acquire Darko. I don’t dislike Darko. I’d sure as heck dislike giving up two mid-first -round type values for the guy.
Martell Webster over five years of playing in the league has never performed in a way anyone would describe as “above average.” He’s a decided mediocrity even in the eyes of the BlazersEdge faithful – one of whom briefly visited here in order to laugh at us earlier tonight.
I like defense as well as anyone, but even there Webster’s essentially redundant to Corey – if for a moment we accept that Corey is a part worth building around. And hey, he comes even more expensive than Brewer, so toss aside that cap space number and start again from less. At this point it’s looking for all the world like all the cap space of the last few years will be spent to oversign Darko Milicic, because otherwise the team is defensively hideous inside. Hoo-ray.
"People do not seem to realize that their opinion of the world is also a confession of character."
by feral on Jun 24, 2010 11:10 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I still have faith...
don’t ask me why…lol
Also…wasn’t there some talk about us needing veterans? Perhaps we are not getting more “assets” but this deal gets us a good “player” and those seem to good to have as well…lol
If he gets playing time he could succeed
Good thing he just got traded to a team that log jammed his position. They also said if he was in an enviroment that fit his style he might improve. Could that be a running team? Let’s hope so.
by Achilles Fang 1 on Jun 24, 2010 10:35 PM CDT reply actions
Is Webster a SG?
If he’s more of a SG than a SF I can LIVE with the trade. It certainly seems shitty value, but we needed a vet SG in the worst way and we sure as hell aren’t getting Joe Johnson. I want to see Corey play more SF and I think he will with Wes being a rookie. There aren’t any other SGs in free agency as far as I know so if Webster can be our starter and play halfways decent I’ll take it.
I don't see what the problem is with this trade
Webster’s a streaky shooter, but he can shoot and figures to get better at it. He’s also a very good defender….strong, with quick hands and good fundamentals. And he’s not a rookie, so he won’t have a learning curve
And while Babbitt appears to be a great shooter, he also appears to be fairly limited to shooting. The games I watched of him, he looked like Wally Szczerbiak or Kyle Korve or Adam Morrison. Not sure why we’d need that kind of player with Johnson and Wayne Ellington on the roster now. Between that and the fact that Webster’s already a proven, productive player (and isn’t that the reason no one wants to trade Love…?) this doesn’t seem like a bad thing at all
Yeah, it's a good trade.
Webster’s a nice player. Only 23, yet experienced in the NBA and ready to make us better, now. I liked Babbitt from the little video clips they showed, but I can’t get too upset about a guy I never saw play and was passed over by 15 teams.
The "passed over by 15 teams" part of that is ridiculously weak.
"People do not seem to realize that their opinion of the world is also a confession of character."
I think the main issue is with value
I agree that I’d rather have Webster than Babbitt, James Anderson, or someone else, and 16th picks are usually rotation-level guys at best, but they tie up cap space on a guy in the last year of his deal. I mean, this deal really should’ve been something like #30 and Gomes instead of #16.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jun 24, 2010 11:20 PM CDT up reply actions
"A proven, productive player"?
Spoken like someone who doubts the usefulness of stats beyond points per game.
Webster is an established mediocrity. His principle positive trait is his defensive play. By any “advanced” metric he’s a sub-starter in terms of offense, and has been for every year he’s been in the league, consistently. The Wolves badly overpaid in order to acquire him based on their holes at the wing spots.
The Timberwolves entered tonight with several assets, two of which they used on Webster, who probably wasn’t worth either of those individually.
As far as “figures to get better,” that’s a shovel full of compost. The guy’s been markedly consistent for a “streaky” shooter. His FG% has held close to his career average every year. His range shooting last year was .001 from his career number. The evidence for his capacity to improve is extremely scant. Portland spent five years saying just that.
But hey: The Wolves approached this draft night, seemingly, with a dogged desire to avoid adding anyone with any “upside” at all to their roster. Every decision was calculated to actively avoid players who’d have a solid chance of growing into something better than what they are. And “what they are” isn’t even that impressive….
"People do not seem to realize that their opinion of the world is also a confession of character."
Let's not get crazy here...
I agree that the value is bad, but Martell Webster is a much better fit for this team than Ryan Gomes, who floated through games, added nothing when he wasn’t making shots, and didn’t produce above replacement level unless he was starting.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jun 24, 2010 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Proven to be what...
…a bench player who’s paid three times what he’s worth? That’s what Martell Webster is.
again..
…value matters. babbitt hasn’t proven you-know-what but he’s doing so at less than 2 mil a year. the wolves actually took on salary in this deal.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
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You’re seriously happy with a draft where we landed three 23 year old SF types?
by Blond Ricky on Jun 24, 2010 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions
To be honest
Yes. And that shouldn’t really surprise anyone who’s paid attention to the things I’ve said the past couple of weeks
It’s not the best we could have done, but not the worst either. I’m pretty much fine with what happened tonight….I think we made a good step forward
I'm with you
But it’s the tossing in of the Gomes contract that messes it up.
I believe Webster is a good player who with playing time and Rubio will look great. But…..fuck, sorry, haven’t gotten my bearings for apologizing for our front office yet. I’ll have more reasons later.
I like Webster though. People are being too hard on him here….but….Gomes and Babbit?
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jun 24, 2010 11:45 PM CDT up reply actions
We did overpay a bit
I’m not saying it was a great deal. I just think people are way overreacting to this
I suppose we could have trade Gomes for like, Michael Beasley, and still everyone would have been unhappy (except for S-n-P probably)
Beasley - Yes!
This team needed to take a gamble! Beasley for Gomes would’ve been more widely accepted because of the risk/reward. If it doesn’t work then we still have cap space.
by killerhoopage on Jun 24, 2010 11:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Beasley can still be acquired. If we wait until July 1, we’ll have the space to absorb his contract outright. It’s actually better for Miami that way as they save the $1 million Gomes buyout cap hit on their cap number.
Still…where does he play? We’re kinda good on SFs at this point. Beasley won’t be 23 this season, so he’s obviously not bound for MN.
by Blond Ricky on Jun 25, 2010 12:01 AM CDT up reply actions
Beasley should develop into a good shooting 4
Maybe a great shooting 4 if he can work on his defense a little more. He’s got good strength and a very fluid, very underutilized post game. And he’s a guy who can create shots for himself and pass well enough to do it for others too
a bit?
webster is a nice player but he’s not definitely better than gomes and the wolves just threw in teh 16th for good measure.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
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He's undoubtedly a better fit, though
More athletic, more capable of guarding (at the very least) athletic 3s and probably many 2s, and a better fit in an uptempo system. I don’t like the value either, but Gomes is a stretch 4 who lacks athleticism.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jun 25, 2010 12:06 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't know
Webster is definitely more athletic and a better defender than Gomes. He’s also a better finisher in transition.
Webster has a better TS%, a better offensive rating, a better defensive rating, more win shares, higher PER, and he blocks half a shot more per game, and draws more free throws. They shoot the 3 at the same percentage even though webster attempts 3 times as many 3’s per 36.
Gomes is a better rebounder, and is a better passer. Gomes is a tweener though on defense.
I don’t see how Webster isn’t undoubtedly a better player than Gomes, at practically the same salary. We also don’t have to pay Gomes buyout now.
Great. We upgraded Ryan Gomes at the expense of the 16. How much though? Is Webster anything close to a difference maker?
by Blond Ricky on Jun 25, 2010 12:33 AM CDT up reply actions
Not sure.
But I do know that he started 70 games on the 2008 Blazers that went 41-41. he was 21 years old at that time. He started 49 on last year’s team that went 50-32. He was 23. At 22, he missed the season with a foot injury. He’s been starting a whole lot of games for a very solid NBA team over the past few years, the first of his 20’s. Ebomb goes in more depth above as to the ways Webster > Gomes.
Hard to say, really.
If the goal is to rebalance our roster, I think it’s a move in the right direction.
I don’t get this at all. Using the draft to rebalance the roster at the expense of talent.
by Blond Ricky on Jun 25, 2010 12:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Again, great. We upgraded on Gomes. I agree. I guess I was just hoping to make more than upgrades to guys that I never really viewed as core anyway.
by Blond Ricky on Jun 25, 2010 12:46 AM CDT up reply actions
If this is your response to nabbing a Blazers starter....
what was your response to drafting Luke Babbitt?
I mean, the guy seemed like a nice player, but you must have been snoring when that pick was made.
#16
When that pick was made I was really hoping for Anderson. They both have a great handle and can create their own shots and have questionable defense. The difference is JA is more of a 2 while Babit is more of a 3. Since we had just drafted Wes (sigh) and have Brewer on our team we shouldn’t have drafted Babitt unless it was to deal him. Dealing him for a mediocre (and if you look at the numbers, that’s what he is) SF and throwing in Gomes contract (which is a great bargaining chip considering the FA market) just stings.
To be honest it doesn’t really sting, it’s just one more insult piled atop of thousands more to which I am slowly becoming immune to. Unless there is a huge move in FA I doubt I will do more than peruse box scores next year.
I believe Webster is a good player who with playing time and Rubio will look great.
This just kind of thinking baffles me. Webster has been in the league for several years now and while still only 23, has shown zero signs that he’s going to improve beyond what he is right now. He was playing with some VERY good players already so it’s hard for me to believe that he’s going to turn things around by just playing at a faster pace and working well with Rubio 1 or 2 years from now.
by Blond Ricky on Jun 24, 2010 11:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Agree w/Blond Ricky & SnP
Gomes for Webster is not a good deal (barely tolerable/defensible) but not as absolutely gut wrenching as the Gomes & #16 for Webster.
by killerhoopage on Jun 25, 2010 12:02 AM CDT up reply actions
That's not the point
With all due respect chuckd -
Babbitt/Jackson/Dunleavey/Redick for Webster may be tolerable but not along with the 16th pick – what is hard to understand about this?
by killerhoopage on Jun 25, 2010 12:07 AM CDT up reply actions
I will agree that Khan got did not get value for 23rd pick but I think that getting Webster is better than getting Babbitt. webster is better then gomes. plus the trailblazers had more talent at the 2,3 so webster could not get any time. I would have tried to get rudy though
It’s not about if Webster is better than Babbitt. For me it’s about using our assets. We had a lot of them and instead of trying to package them for high end players, we were content to fill needs and go for guys who fit better.
by Blond Ricky on Jun 25, 2010 12:23 AM CDT up reply actions
I think if we had drafted Cousins and traded him for Johnson...
…kept Babbitt and kept Booker, people would be just as unhappy
no just I dont think so
I thought that johnson was at best 6 or 7 pick 5 at the most you could have done a kiddy deal to swap picks. Hell macfail did this a few time
Talking about keeping Babbitt and Booker makes no sense. We were picking those players for other teams.
Cousins has huge upside. I could get behind that. We have no other means to add that kind of talent at that position. We took Wes Johnson. We have/had ample means to add talent at that position (see what we did at 16, FA options like T. Outlwaw, and trades -weren’t you talking about s/t…Al to Toronto, Bosh to Chicago and Deng to MN).
We could have taken James Anderson at 16 or Damion James. Or, gotten creative and packaged picks (pekovic ) to move up for someone like George (could have had him from Indy for Flynn?).
Lazar Heyword- Dude played PF in college quite a bit at 6’5.5". Why not take a shot at a Whiteside there. Hayward would have been there at 35 most likely.
by Blond Ricky on Jun 25, 2010 12:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Regardless, Gomes=Webster. Gomes + 16th > Webster. It was just a stupid, stupid deal. And this wasn’t the only trade Kahn got abused on. He also traded the 23rd pick for the 30th and 35th. To compare that the Hawks traded the 24th pick for the 27th and 31st. Much better then the 30th and 35th wouldn’t ya say?
by packallday555 on Jun 25, 2010 12:09 AM CDT up reply actions
To pile on...
Did you read the Blazertag article linked to in the post? The Blazer fans don’t even think he’s good or improving.
“Also have to believe Babbitt/Gomes for Martell Webster was not a KP pick. It makes no sense. No relief + a lesser/less proven shooter.”—Ric Bucher
"Some guys got drafted and they ain't played football in 15 years and I'm still waiting to get drafted. I'm still waiting to hear my name." -Rod Smith
I'd explain that with
Bucher hasn’t done his homework on Gomes’ contract.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jun 24, 2010 11:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Who’s more proven in the NBA?Webst er or Babbitt?
Whose more proven in the NBA? Travis Outlaw or Wes Johnson?
In a vacuum, I can see the benefit of 16 for Webster. We’re not in a vacuum though. I get that we need veterans, but IMO we need high end talent more. We’re not getting that talent in FA, but we could get the veterans via that route.
The Wolves needed some creativity tonight and we didn’t get it. We needed to use our draft picks/assets to land some top end/upside type talent. Do this by adding things together, not chopping them up into smaller parts. Later, use cap space and trades to balance the roster and add the vets.
How do we use cap space now? To overpay Darko? We’ve got too much mediocre depth everywhere else.
Flynn, Sessions
Brewer, Webster, Ellington
Johnson, Webster, Hayward
Al, Love
Darko, Hollins
Where is the upside???
by Blond Ricky on Jun 24, 2010 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions
It's been accepted for a while now that our cap space is for sign-and-trades
It’s not like we were going to lure LeBron here to begin with. We’ve got plenty to spend in that fashion
Sign and trades to fill what position? We’re 2 deep everywhere with borderline starter type talent at every position except PF.
These sign/trades have been discussed, but I’ve yet to see any proposal/scenario where these kind of deals could help us. What is Chicago going to give us? Or NY or Miami to facilitate these sign/trade deals?
by Blond Ricky on Jun 24, 2010 11:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Won't be 2 deep for long
Al and/or Love are on the way out…it’s like 99% certain now
This is just one hypothetical scenario, but if Bosh wants to be the #1 player on his team, a s&t for Bosh that sends Al Jefferson to Toronto would be pretty plausible. So there’s options out there
i would have subscribed to this position...
…before today but the “kahn is an easy mark” position just took hold for good. the guy got abused today.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
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Again, this is a reactionary response...
There are so many unknown factors at this point. To say Kahn got taken is assuming the worst without any real knowledge of the situation.
disagree
i think i know enough to make a decision on this front. the guy is in over his head and the entire league knows it. where did all the jefferson offers go? he overplayed his hand and the offers disappeared when it mattered because everyone knew he didn’t have a clear understanding of what his own players are/were worth. see the gomes contract for more evidence. it’s sad.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
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You don't know that
You can’t say there aren’t still deals on the table. I am completely comfortable saying maybe it all comes to nothing, but we don’t know for sure. Maybe Al is more useful after the big FA deals come to fruition. Maybe there wasn’t anything that made a trade tonight worthwhile. We don’t know.
Or the Thunder? 21, 26 and taking the last year of Mo Pete’s deal for #11? X. Henry was available there.
by Blond Ricky on Jun 25, 2010 12:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Seriously...
None of this can be judged tonight. None. We don’t know what will come tomorrow or weeks from now or years from now. I completely understand the emotional response to tonight, I do, but passing judgment the night of a draft is silly.
I dislike this response. Most knew on draft night last night what we found out during the season. The Wolves picked the wrong player with Flynn over Curry. Your theory is correct in absolutes, but there’s more to it than that.
by Blond Ricky on Jun 25, 2010 12:42 AM CDT up reply actions
you do know
not by direct action, but by relative worth. you may not know what your neighbor’s house is worth but you sure as hell know he needs a new roof and that he needs to mow his lawn. we do know that value was left on the table compared to the wolves’ peers.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
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I think we're just going to need to agree to disagree
I won’t pass judgment on a draft until three years in. Everything else is assumption and speculation. Value is an assessment that needs to judged in the long term.
no...
….value is done pick by pick in real time by each and every other gm in the league. once the decision is made, the value is locked in. yes, players change over time, but the decision existed last night.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
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Again, this is a disagreement of philosophy
What happens on draft night is speculation, hopefully based on genuine assessment of tangible factors. Value is a transient factor that isn’t actually based in fact until it comes into fruition. We don’t know who was the best player in a draft until he succeeds at the NBA level and shows us, clearly, who was the best pick. Value, until that point, is at best, an estimation.
Not philosophy
value is subjective – and we are always subjectively wrong
by killerhoopage on Jun 25, 2010 1:05 AM CDT up reply actions
ok...
..i’ll remember your definition of value the next time i try to buy a bullsh#t appliance for 2 cents because I have a feeling it will break down when I take it home. Value is not transient. It is priced out in real time.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
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Also okay...
If you want to liken draft stock and real life pricing, then please do. Goods have a set value give or take market fluctuations. Player values are based on so many other factors, they are hardly comparable. To my thinking, you’re basically comparing apples to oranges here.
when there are 5 minutes on the clock...
…you have a set value and that’s it. i get where you’re going with players getting better (or worse) down the line, but that has nothing to do with how much each player was acquired for. that’s the value that matters.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
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Will you grant...
that that is an imaginary or speculative value? I think you and I agree that DMC was the value pick at 4.
I'm a stock guy
stocks are priced in real time, but with respect to their potential. Just like draft prospects. Potential reward is realized with a higher status. Higher current value is also realized. Stocks aren’t priced now by a man who comes back from the future every day to update us on their current price 2 years from now.
Buckeyes are red, Wildcats are blue,
I wanted Evan Turner, But DeMarcus Cousins will do.
It's a market
And all of the other traders on the floor are very glad Kahn is out there with them. That’s all I’m saying.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
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Bosh coming here? What are you smoking? Something realistic please.
These big FAs are ending up in Chicago, Miami or NY. What do those teams have that we’d want assuming Al goes to the team losing the FA?
by Blond Ricky on Jun 25, 2010 12:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Kool-Aid?
I’ve drank the Kool-Aid for years – NOBODY is coming hear!
by killerhoopage on Jun 25, 2010 12:15 AM CDT up reply actions
This is really just pure MN fan negativity
Emotional response is to be expected. I think all of us wanted Kahn to flagrantly, brutally, display some sign of a brilliant plan beyond the savagery he’s received from the national press to show all of them they were wrong.
We did not get it. There’s not plainly obvious genius in motion. What we don’t know was if he had options to make a great move or not.
The Wes over DMC pick does really, really rub me wrong, though.
No - "die hard fan" negativity
There is a difference. I have followed this team for twenty years and have been a seson ticket holder for 15 – I have a right to feel negative about this!
by killerhoopage on Jun 25, 2010 12:25 AM CDT up reply actions
You're not alone
I’ve followed the team since its existence. No draft is worthy of analysis until we’ve seen its true results. That doesn’t occur the night of, ever.
Disagree
The last draft I knew we hit a homerun in was KG. I’m not saying that Wesley might not be good, but I don’t think he’ll ever be great. The point is we are our own worst enemy – we never swing for the fences anymore. We just take the safe player. The problem is that the casual fan does’nt give a damn about the Wolves anymore – “we” do. “We” meaning the very few last diehard fans, and the Wolves keep sucking the life out of us with predictable, boring, safe, minimum reward high draft picks and royally botched trades where we seem to always get taken. Getting rid of McHale was supposed to make us feel better about our future. Tonight I think Kahn may have extracted the last bit of hope most of us had left for the Wolves to get it right. I may be wrong in my assesment becaue of my emotions, but that won’t be cured unless Kahn knows more than all of us “negative” fans. I just don’t think I can “sugarcoat” and look for the positive in the terrible draft(s) we made (have made) anymore.
by killerhoopage on Jun 25, 2010 12:48 AM CDT up reply actions
This, too, is an emotional response, and one I completely understand. I don’t object to being pissed off about certain aspects of the draft (Wes over DMC). The fact is, we have no true idea of who will be the better player. Jim Peterson talked about his meeting with DMC in high school on KFAN tonight (and the fistfight he had with an Osseo player after an unnecessary elbow), and that he was completely disinterested in hearing anything a former NBA player had to say to him in terms of his game. Dude has the physical tools to be a fantastic NBA player, but if he’s incapable of listening to good advice, I don’t blame the Wolves for not taking him.
Take the guy who is going to make your team better.
Exactly
As a man who has suffered through Rider, Pooh, Laetner (decent player but 1 pick higher…) , the Smith fiasco that lost us tons of first rounders, The total inability to build around KG… Really KG has been this teams only bright spot in it’s entire existence.
I agree with that
black people from other states dont think that black people live in minnesota.that is why nobody comes here. Plus you add the "cold " which I this is stupid becouse it gets cold in new york and chitown.
This team needed creativity and some big changes to right the ship. Instead, we made a safe, need based selection, added a mediocre veteran and reached on a tweener topped off with two more Euros.
by Blond Ricky on Jun 24, 2010 11:28 PM CDT up reply actions
The Euros actually could turn out to be fantastic picks
We’re just going to have to wait a couple of years to find out
Oh…there’s our upside? I was wondering where that was. Certainly wasn’t in the first round.
by Blond Ricky on Jun 24, 2010 11:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Plus can't they let him go after this year
If the Wolves only move this year is to resign Darko they could have some big money for free agency next year.
by Achilles Fang 1 on Jun 24, 2010 11:13 PM CDT reply actions
I don’t mind trading Babbitt for Webster, but we wasted a very valuable trade chip in Gomes. I’d much rather have used Gomes for Beasley.
And I simply hate the 30th pick…would have taken Stephenson or Whiteside.
by TWolvesFanInLA on Jun 24, 2010 11:16 PM CDT reply actions
according to Blazers Edge
they thought Martell is a better prospect than Fernandez. If Fernandez isn’t hitting his shots, he adds nothing.
Also they were saying that Martell would be better on a more up tempo system that could take advantage of his athleticism and finishing. The Blazers had the slowest tempo team in the league.
I don’t think this was plan A for the POBO, but I definitely don’t think it was the complete failure for a 16th pick and Gomes.
I agree it's not a complete failure
But I can’t endorse it either. Awesome position to be in.
So it goes.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jun 24, 2010 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Martell Webster is a great addition, and still only 23 years of age....
Rotoworld seems to agree with me as well…
" Martell Webster has been traded to the Timberwolves in part of a draft-day deal that included Luke Babbitt and Ryan Gomes, who are heading to Minnesota.
Webster is just the kind of scorer the Wolves needed, and he could be a fantasy sleeper next season. The Wolves are loading up on scorers, waiting for Ricky Rubio to come and pass to them the year after next."
People will be suprised by his ability to run, play some D, and knock down the 3 Balls. Babbit would have really kept this team down on the defensive end and tempo wise.
"Some guys got drafted and they ain't played football in 15 years and I'm still waiting to get drafted. I'm still waiting to hear my name." -Rod Smith
Webster trade
I dont think this was a bad trade either name one good usa born white small forward in nba in the last 10 years.
Guys, Guys, Guys
Jon Barry thinks Wes Johnson is gonna be a star. I….I think we’re gonna be fine.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jun 24, 2010 11:35 PM CDT reply actions
Wish we would have...
…just drafted Anderson at 16 and been done with it. I could have lived with a combo of Anderson and Johnson. Webster, Johnson, and whatever Lazar is, not so much.
Failure.
I don't know anymore.
I actually really like Wes. I don’t care that he’s 23. I never liked Cousins. I’m fine w Webster. Maybe Hayward will be a big sleeper, and he was the 30th pick. 2 Euro stash guys. Sure, why not? Meh, I’ll watch the damn games anyway. MN for life baby.
people always like new
I think Khan needs to shut up and be PC and dont give up the goods
Reactionary
I don’t disagree that in the purely hypothetical, the Kahn and the Wolves were positioned to do more tonight than what we actually managed. Wes over DMC wasn’t a choice I agreed with, but at this point, we have no idea what will actually come of it. A player isn’t what he will be until 28 to my thinking. That’s a much smaller window on Wes than it is on Cousins, of course, but we don’t know what kind of growing pains either player will go through.
What we don’t know, at all, is what our Euros will do, what the actual war room looked like, or what trades were left on the table, and what is yet to come. I understand tonight’s frustration. I think all of us wanted to come away with two serious difference makers. Freaking out tonight, making snap judgments, is not beneficial, and walking away from the team we want to love isn’t the move to make. Ride it out. See what free agency and tomorrow brings.
Good post, reason is a good idea.
But man…..DMC is a galaxy eater. Shite.
You’re right though, the offseason isn’t over, it’s just beginning. Things could happen before the beginning of the season – hell, before the end of the night – to completely change our perception of the team and Kahn.
Right now……that’s hard to sell, though.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jun 25, 2010 12:07 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree, goog...
I wanted Cousins really badly. I thought, without question, he would be the guy to completely change our front court and reshape the team as a whole. It would mandate moving Al, and probably at a epically reduced value, but shit… we don’t know if there was anyone willing to take him on with his knee and history of suckitude on D. It’s frustrating, for sure.
I also really wanted to see us acquire Paul George, and I wonder if Kahn poisoned the waters with the comments about the Pacers’ FO. I’m completely undecided at this point, but I think irrational, snap judgments don’t benefit anyone in a clear and level-headed discussion.
Agree -
Talk about mismatches – how are teams going to stop Tyreke & DeMarcus? All we do is draft ’tweeners and undersized players.
by killerhoopage on Jun 25, 2010 12:13 AM CDT up reply actions
So basically..trust the FO that blew the draft to make some great moves in FA. We had much more currency in the draft then we’ve got in terms of trade value.
by Blond Ricky on Jun 25, 2010 12:08 AM CDT up reply actions
That's not what I said, Ricky
All I’m asking for is a bit of level-headedness. We don’t have any facts to back our frustrations. Any judgments made at this moment are based on emotion. My point is that we don’t really know anything at this point.
We don't???
Can you name me one person who likes the Babitt + Gomes for Webster trade that isn’t a Portland fan (they love it), a sure sign we got fleeced?
You're not making an argument here
Look up at the previous posts. You’ll find at least a couple. This is more emotion, not rational thought.
In reading through
the Blazer fan’s posts, there was an affection for Martell Webster. Rudy was widely considered to be a less bankable asset, and there seemed to be those who believed that Martell had great upside. Gomes was a goner anyway, and I guarantee you few of us had that same affection for him
Look, I think the night was horse-sheit, but that was going to be the case from the second DMC wasn’t picked at four. But I don’t think this trade was bad.
On the other hand, 30, and the 2nd round where some relatively bigger name centers started sliding down couldn’t have reminded me more of a few years ago when Marc Gasol and Jordan were available in the 2nd and we drafted an as yet not in America, undersived, euro.
by TheFlingerofPoo on Jun 25, 2010 12:18 AM CDT reply actions
Wes/Webster
Can Webster log heavy minutes at SG? Wondering if Wes and Webster can be on the court at the same time for extended periods.
by TWolvesFanInLA on Jun 25, 2010 12:20 AM CDT reply actions
yes they can
I think that was the point of the trade
He doesn't have the handle for it
and is a spot-up shooter who can’t shoot off screens, but the athletisism is certainly there.
by TheFlingerofPoo on Jun 25, 2010 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Lolololololol
Wow neither our 2 or our 3 have a handle, absofreakinglutely wonderful.
Fuck it.
Just wait, guys. We waited for this, and yeah it didn’t turn out like we wanted, but we improved our talent and assets….did we maximize what we had? No. But maybe we couldn’t. Maybe DMC is an insane child. Maybe Al isn’t going for much now.
We still got Rubio. We still got Love. We got something that, WITH A FEW GODDAMN MOVES, could be something.
Time to sleep…..hopefully I wake up to something along the lines of…..jesus, I can’t even think of what. But….ya know what?…..at least we ain’t the Bobcats.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jun 25, 2010 12:22 AM CDT reply actions
FWIW...
Kahn admitted in a story just posted to the Strib site that Gomes was told by the team at the end of the season that he wasn’t coming back due to his contract. In my mind, McHale made a stupid move in signing him to that deal in the first place.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jun 25, 2010 12:23 AM CDT reply actions
Yes, but other teams wanted contracts like Gomes'
because they’re trying to increase cap space for FA. Do you really think we couldn’t have gotten that #11 that the Thunder ended up with?
The Hornets got rid of a contract without taking back any salary...
How is that better than taking back a contract?
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jun 25, 2010 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions
SnP
are you planning a nice draft recap post for all of us? I think we’d all enjoy that considerably. =)
Actively looking for red flags since my 5th grade traveling team
I think everyone reads too much into who gets drafted where
They needed shooters and they went after the shooters they felt were the best picks for the Timberwolves. Maybe they were also considering a factor like whether or not the guys they got would want to re-sign with us down the road.
by BetterLaettnerThanRider on Jun 25, 2010 12:45 AM CDT reply actions
Maybe
At some point you need to draft for need. At some point you have to move forward with what you got. Maybe the Wolves didn’t take DMC because they thought he didn’t fit the system they want or is redundant, though, they did appear to make redundant picks tonight. We’ll see.
It seems that this negativity is a reaction to the massive wheeling and dealing Kahn did last offseason. People were expecting us to move up in the draft when we instead made the picks from where we were financially comfortable.
by BetterLaettnerThanRider on Jun 25, 2010 12:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Randy Moss
was a freak. He came out of nowhere in regards to expectations.
by BetterLaettnerThanRider on Jun 25, 2010 1:07 AM CDT up reply actions
"You can calm down a fool before you can resurrect a corpse" JT
This guy is a saint compared to some of the other high draft picks taken in any sport. He has never had any off-court issues at all. I think people mistake passion and aggressiveness on the court and distort it as a negative trait for someone they know nothing about. Calipari knew Cousins the best as a player and never said anything negative about the kid. He said his personality was to make anybody pay that was passing on him in the draft even if he was 35 he’d be trying to score 50 on you. That is the kind of mentality I want in a player. As the subject line states and quoted by John Thompson as well – there are “too many butterflies in the NBA, and not enough bulls.”
by killerhoopage on Jun 25, 2010 1:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Don't draft Purple Jesus either
we had a solid starting tailback in Chester Taylor who had just finished a 1200 yard season.
How do you think they won 15 games?
Is it possible it’s because they had significant holes at specific positions?
by BetterLaettnerThanRider on Jun 25, 2010 1:05 AM CDT up reply actions
Really?
Is that all you’ve got? BECAUSE WE SUCKED! We do not need to worry about filling holes. We need to put some NBA caliber starters (except Love/Jefferson) on the floor. We have a great bench team, that’s all.
I guess
we can still make those trades if other teams are interested in what we’ve got.
by BetterLaettnerThanRider on Jun 25, 2010 1:23 AM CDT up reply actions
The move I wanted to see most after the Wes pick
was to dump 16 and 23 to Indy for Paul George. I imagine Kahn pissed in the waters too much for that to occur, but damn, I really want him in a Wolves’ jersey.
I don't think that was possible...
Allegedly the Thunder were offering some combo of two out of 18, 21 , 26 plus taking back TJ Ford’s bad contract for the 10 and could not make a deal with Indy, don’t see how Kahn could have done much better with 16 and 23 unless he offerend to take back TJ as well.
by GregSandpaper on Jun 25, 2010 2:12 AM CDT up reply actions
Blazer fan's view of Martell
A capsule summary of Martell Webster:
He’s very positive and well-liked. His most obvious talent is outside shooting, but he also seems to have made a serious commitment to defense and that’s been a big plus.
On Youtube you can find video of the time he scored 25 points in a quarter, which was pretty amazing. So in the back of our minds, Blazer fans have thought of him as a guy who could bust out at any time and become a superstar. On the other hand, sometimes three weeks will go by and you think, “I haven’t seen anything from Martell in a while.” Our #1 Blazer blogger, Dave, feels that Martell needs big minutes to get big results, and tends to come up small when he’s just getting spot minutes.
In Portland, Webster has had the terrific Nicolas Batum in front of him for most of the past two years, so his minutes and his performance have been up and down. He could in fact thrive in Minnesota if he gets integrated into the team.
When Webster was injured in 2008-09 and Batum was emerging as a big talent, Webster was up off the bench to congratulate him on good plays — it wasn’t about ego for him, it was about supporting the whole team. At the same time, he was determined to make himself as good as the new guy. Similarly, I think Webster has a CHANCE to become the player we’ve hoped he would be, and Blazer fans would be really happy for him if he fulfilled that, even on another team.
thanks for the insight…do you think he can log heavy minutes at SG (does he have the handle for it)? Kahn/Rambis may be envisioning starting both Wes (SF) and Webster (SG).
by TWolvesFanInLA on Jun 25, 2010 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions
Martell at shooting guard?
He’s always talked about as a swing 2 and 3, but he hasn’t gotten many minutes at the 2. I would say he has a pretty okay handle — he can dribble twice and shoot, for sure. In general, however, he’s been a catch-and-shoot guy in Portland most of the time.
Check this out — this is the dream version of what he can do:
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