Community Draft Board, pt. 5: The Poor Dick off-season nightmare edition
by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 6, 2010 7:00 PM CDT
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First off, here's a little Tony Rice, singing the Normal Blake classic, Church Street Blues. Tony isn't at the top of the mountain anymore but here's a little snippet of what he was like at the peak of his powers. And no, no matter how long you play, you won't sound like that.
Today's Community Draft Board poll comes with a little off-season nightmare list from one of the Hoopus Community's founding fathers, Poor Dick:
1. The Wolves get into a bidding war for Gay—and win.
2. They trade Love for a bag of beans, after relegating him to the bench last season
3. They can’t get anything of value for Jefferson, so they keep him
4. They’re afraid of picking Cousins, so they either reach for another 6th man, or trade down for one
5. They decide to prove they were right on Flynn, WEllington, and Hollins, and instead of replacing them with better players, they give those three even more minutes than last year.
6. Gordon Heyward has a firm handshake, looks Kahn in the eye and says, "Nice to meet you, Sir."
Feel free to add your own in the comments. Here is what the Hoopus Community Draft Board looks like at the moment:
- John Wall
- Evan Turner
- Derrick Favors
- DeMarcus Cousins
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Wes Johnson=Safest Pick in the Draft, guaranteed starter on almost every team that has a solid playmaking guard, but will never be better than a starter, still a very good pick at 5 in any Draft. Solid chance at being in the ROY conversation behind Wall and Turner. A good Third Option on offense. Definitely has all the physical tools to be a lock down defender, but at this point doesn’t necessarily have the technique or IQ. His floor is that of Wall, Turner, and Favors, in that at worst he’s starting material, but doesn’t have nearly the upside because of his an inability to create his own offense. Is he a good pick for us? I don’t think selecting him outright will be the best move for us because I believe Cousins has more value than him, but I think if Sacramento or Golden State covets Cousins more than us and in the case of GS, Sacramento doesn’t take Wes Johnson, than we should push hard for a Wes Johnson/Randolph or a Wes Johnson/Jason Thompson trade.
by AnotherDraftPickBitesTheDust on Jun 6, 2010 7:18 PM CDT reply actions
Poor Dick - we're having the same nightmare
I’ve been more freaked as a Wolves fan the past 24 hours than I have ever been in my 21 years of fandom.
The thought of:
- trading Love for low value
- keeping Jefferson
- passing on Cousins, Turner or Favors with the #4 pick
- signing Gay
that combo has made me physically ill.
If one of them happened, I’d be okay…but if 2 or more go down I’m thinking about turning in my Wolves card, because it means my view of the basketball world and Kahn’s are so different that I’d just be in for 3-5 more years of heartache.
Oh god, let it not be so.
I’ve made CH a twice-daily read for the past I don’t know how many months and I’ve come to take this a little too seriously. :) I’ve been so excited for this summer and all of our lovely chips and assets…but if the whispers about what Kahn really values turn out to be true then it was all for naught.
Goddammit, I want to root for a SMART franchise. Is that too much to ask?!?
PD – talk me back from the ledge!!!
A collective nightmare
that is the experience of being a Wolves fan for 20 years.
"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please."
Mark Twain
Even though I can't stand football...
…and secretly hope that the Vikings leave for LA, they may have a legit claim to the most cursed franchise in all of American professional sports. It’s them and the Cubs fighting for the top spot. Just from my casual football memory, I can think of Darren Nelson, the Walker trade, Les Steckel, take a knee, 41-donut, and this latest/greatest stab to the heart of any fan: the Favre game. I can’t imagine being old enough to remember the Super Bowl losses and how that would add to the agony. I have a feeling that this upcoming season will be even more crushing than last year.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Love and Rambis
Did anyone else see them sitting next to each other taking in the Lakers game? Its encouraging to see our best player and coach spending time together in the offseason.
Just remember there was a rumor that we we’re going to dump Al last February. Everyone denied it, and then shortly thereafter and for no apparent reason, Love got benched and Al starting playing more minutes. Poor Dick’s comment on trading Love after benching him got me thinking. Kahn is pretty crafty. If he thought we would trade Love, I don’t think there is any way he would allow him to be benched. And it coincided with Darko’s first two games where he and Love put up ridiculous +/- numbers together.
I think everything we’ve done since February has been aimed at increasing Jefferson’s trade value. I don’t think we’ve been very successful in that regard, but maybe what we are trying to do is solicit offers for Love, get other teams to identify who they are willing to trade, and then pull the bait-and-switch with Jefferson, and take a little less than what the other team was willing to give for Love.
This is a good point about Jefferson's playing time
and I also found it a relief to see Rambis and Love (and Mrs. Rambo?) sitting together at the game. Somehow, I think if Love were thiiiisss close to being traded, he wouldn’t go to the game with his soon-to-be-former coach.
There's also a Shelden Williams sighting...
….the man leads a charmed life.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
That Tony Rice video
is pretty awesome btw. I enjoyed that. It’s amazing how much sound he can make with an efficient pick stroke, a few basic chords and pull offs. Nothing overly complex, but just a natural sound that is his own refined and perfected no doubt of decades of practice and repetition.
He was definitely one of the greats...
….Manzanita is one of my top 10 all time favorite albums.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Please keep it up
I don’t cook much, so the korean recipes look delicious but they’re a little lost on me.
But your musical selections continually lead me to new artists I appreciate. This clip is phenomenal.
Shelden is a good guy.
Partly he gets chances because he’s a solid locker room presence and so on. Ever see how he reacted to being carjacked in Atlanta? Told the team when he reported late for shootaround, otherwise took it in stride.
(Personally I don’t really know why he wasn’t kept around here to play his Dale Davis wannabe role.)
"Sarchasm": The gap in understanding which occurs when one attempts to be self-deprecating on behalf of others.
yes!
I posted this is an earlier thread…but…this Love trade talk is posturing. Kahn is trying to manufacture a little leverage with the Al trade (good luck)…as if we are undecided on who we want to keep…the $12M black hole…or the versatile 21yr old on a rookie deal who makes his teammates better and keeps adding facets to his game.
Twitter account
Someone needs to reopen Kevin Love’s twitter account. We could be getting some crazy tweets tonight from the Lakers game with Coach Rambsi. What fun is the draft going to be without Love openly criticizing management regarding the picks? Someone needs to get Love on CH during draft night to offer candid commentary.
He didn't exactly criticize them last year.
He just said he needed to get on the treadmill to “run with these point gods,” and somesuch.
"Sarchasm": The gap in understanding which occurs when one attempts to be self-deprecating on behalf of others.
Or it's all smokescreen to drive up Love's value
and make teams think that the Wolves don’t want to to trade Love. But actually, he’s the guy who got benched and isn’t part of the future.
It's a very Minnesota scene there tonight
Uncle Kenny Mauer refereeing as well. I wonder if that is why KG is already on the bench with three fouls? Even though KG is now longer on the Wolves, maybe Uncle Kenny is still worried that someone might think he’s biased as a Minnesotan if he doesn’t foul Garnett out as quick as possible.
Bill Simmons is even making Wolves mentions in his live chat
sportsguy33: Just met Kevin Love and his Dad. Thought about telling him I heard he was getting traded to the Clippers just for the reaction… would that have been mean or funny?
Sunday June 6, 2010 9:29
sportsguy33: BTW, totally forgot to do polls that half!!!! Let’s do one now.
Sunday June 6, 2010 9:29
sportsguy33: Kevin Love’s dad said he was reading my book and loved my created stat for Unselds (outlets that led to a fast break layup). I was touched. I love the Loves. Let’s hope David Kahn is dumb enough to trade him to a place where he can thrive… he needs to be on a good team.
…
TC:
Don’t worry. Kahn is going to trade either Kevin Love or Al Jefferson for 25 cents on the dollar. Then promptly assure the last 18 Timberwolves fans that it is all part of his elaborate scheme. KAAAAHNNNNNNNNN!!!
Sunday June 6, 2010 9:38
sportsguy33: Well, look at the bright side: Ricky Rubio isn’t coming over until 2012, and when he does, you’ll have to pay him outside of the rookie scale.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
I then asked Bill...
…if he enjoyed watching the Celtics give away momentum because of Timberwolves castoff Shelden Williams. Still waiting for a response.
They needed to bring flags for KG on offense last night.
Garnett should have given his team at least six “1st and 20” situations due to holding calls on his “screens.” The late one where Rondo stepped left around Garnett literally hugging Gasol with both arms to keep him from playing defense…. Good grief.
"Sarchasm": The gap in understanding which occurs when one attempts to be self-deprecating on behalf of others.
There were some pretty embarrassing....
….calls and non calls in that game last night. It was a good game to watch for a die-hard fan but I watched it with a casual observer who thought that the officiating was worse than Jim Joyce. The phantom foul on Kobe, the make up calls on the next play after a terrible whistle, the non calls on picks….it was everything that was bad about officiating in the NBA on display and while I’ve learned to ignore it, I don’t think that’s the case with most casual sports fans. I still can’t believe KG wasn’t tossed for a game or two after he twice (yes twice) swung at Dwight Howard as hard as he could with his forearm to knock his hand away…right in front of a ref.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
I think it's mischaracterizing to say he "swung at Dwight"
I mean, why would anybody ever get ejected or suspended for arm on arm contact? That wasn’t intended to injure. It looked to me like KG was taking a foul on purpose to call attention to the fact that Dwight was holding him, to get the refs to look for Dwight’s infraction at future points in the game. Meanwhile, Dwight was knocking guys out of the game left and right with elbow swings, for which no one ever brought up the idea of a flagrant foul.
Having said that, the refs last night were awful all around. Just terrible. All the Lakers fans at my office will complain today about Kobe being in foul trouble, but the real victim of the refs last night was Big Baby Davis. When he makes a clean block, they call a foul on him, and when he’s got the rock, nothing is a foul anymore. Poor guy gets no respect whatsoever.
by princelyfrank on Jun 7, 2010 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h9J20n9_kQ
He swung as hard as he could and the only different between that and a punch is that he used his forearm. But yeah, I get the points about no intent to injure and Howard being pointy with his elbows.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Last night's game is also...
…a shining example why I think Phil Jackson may be the greatest pro basketball motivator of all time but an average coach. Gasol was the best player on the court last night and he touched it about 2 times in the 4th. That’s inexcusable.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
That Laker team
suffers a little bit from an embarrassment of riches. Part of is Phil, part of it is Boston’s defense—but there are several times during a game when I say to myself, “That’s RIGHT!! Lamar Odom IS still on this team!”
Gasol..
….got KG, Perkins, and Sheed into foul trouble and was able to do whatever he wanted with the ball. His 3rd quarter was downright dominant. Jackson’s coaching error came in playing him for 3 straight full quarters and then losing him for the 1st half of the 4th. Rivers almost made the same mistake with Rondo but he got bailed out by Nate Robinson.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Doc isn't bad either as motivator
and stashing that money in the ceiling of the Staples Center was quite impressive. The Lakers may suffer from an “embarrassment of riches,” as PD puts it so nicely. But the Celts aren’t exactly impoverished either. Seems though Doc may get better mileage out of what he has whereas Phil is spoiled somewhat. One thing very noticeable in the final minutes of last night’s game: Kobe trying to take over by sheer will while team mates just stood around. The Celts were moving the ball around nicely much of the game on the other hand.
"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please."
Mark Twain
I think his handling of Gasol has a lot to do with MJ. It sounds weird, but if Phil doesn’t coach MJ earlier in his career, he probably doesn’t try to fallback on that blueprint with Kobe. At this point, Gasol is the best basketball player on the Lakers, but there are times where it seems like Phil thinks that #24 is actually #23 and asks Kobe to do way more than he ought to. Kobe definitely encourages that with his occasionally spiteful play (“Oh yeah, Pau? You think you deserve more credit, try carrying the team like I did a few years back while I refuse to shoot!”), but at some point, Phil’s got to play to his strengths and right now, that’s his bigs.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
I was thinking along the lines of MJ too
Jordan and Kobe can both take over games obviously, but MJ also got team mates involved, even at crucial junctures in important games (later in his career, to be sure). So I’m not sure if we pin this more on Phil or more on Kobe, but I suspect the latter.
"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please."
Mark Twain
Semi-related: On another board, Kobe was recently called Clyde Drexler with better teammates and a much worse personality. I’m inclined to agree and would probably say Clyde was an ever so slightly better player (though someone could talk me out of that). Kobe will go down as the most overrated player of this generation by a long shot.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
Clyde didn't play defense anything like Kobe at his best.
"Sarchasm": (var. sarcasm) The gap in understanding which occurs when one attempts to be self-deprecating on behalf of others.
I’ve read a lot of crazy things on sports blogs before, but this is right up there: “would probably say Clyde was an ever so slightly better player”
Again, I don’t even like Kobe, but he will go down as top 10 all time regardless of position.
by TWolvesFanInLA on Jun 7, 2010 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions
BTW, I don’t mean to be disrespectful. There is certainly an argument to be made that LBJ is currently better than Kobe. And like Andy G below, I don’t think Kobe is in conversation with MJ as best player of all time. However, I’m hard pressed to name 10 players that have had a better career than Kobe and Kobe probably has another 5 very solid years left in him.
by TWolvesFanInLA on Jun 7, 2010 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Eh
Well, better career and better player are different things. I’d say he’s a top-50 all timer for sure, probably top-25 or 20. I just think that’s he’s not quite to the level of your Birds and Magics, but more on the level of Stockton or Hakeem or Isaiah.
I think Kobe retires after another 3 years...
…unless he decides to play longer just to piss me off.
Why is that so crazy? Kobe was the better scorer and better defender when he wasn’t taking plays off (which, as someone watching lots of Kobe’s games, you’d have to acknowledge that he does that quite a bit on the defensive end). Clyde is the better rebounder and passer. Kobe had the better supporting cast and wasn’t going up against MJ, and so he won more titles. Clyde put in a very solid 14 years of NBA service; Kobe is sitting on 13 right now. Clyde was a great player, so is Kobe. I think you are overestimating the difference between the two. They are very similar in terms of quality.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
At this point
just agree to disagree.
"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please."
Mark Twain
Fair enough. I just think that Clyde tends to get forgotten in the ranks of great players. Saying someone is about as good as Clyde Drexler is a pretty lofty comparison. He deserves to be in the discussion after guys like MJ, Bird, Russell, Wilt and Magic are all given their place, in my opinion.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
I think you forgot Kareem
"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please."
Mark Twain
I did. And a few more, I’m sure. Clyde’s like a tier 3 or 4 all-timer. MJ gets tier one to himself and from there, things get a bit more fluid, but tier two would start with the guys I listed, plus Kareem and a couple others.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
And Roger Murdock, the copilot....
"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please."
Mark Twain
I’m a huge Pau fan and he may be the best big in the NBA, but he is not the best player on the Lakers. With all due respect to LBJ, Kobe, who I don’t even like, is still the best player in the league. In the playoffs, Kobe is averaging 29/6/5 while shooting 48% and 40% from downtown.
by TWolvesFanInLA on Jun 7, 2010 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Kobe has been great this playoffs, but over the course of the year, Pau was better. Kobe got exactly the right matchups in the previous two rounds to play his best ball.
Calling him better than LeBron is just false. LeBron is the better scorer, passer, rebounder and defender. I’m not sure how you can make the call that you’d rather have Kobe at this point. I wouldn’t call Kobe a top 5 player in the leauge and maybe not even top 10. Incredibly overrated.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
Fair enough re: regular season, but there is no question I’d rather have Kobe for current playoff run than LBJ. Look at Kobe’s run since game 6 of OKC series. Granted he didn’t have a good game last night, but he only played 34 minutes after some ticky tack fouls.
Kobe has killer instinct to win games that LBJ doesn’t. I realize LBJ is surrounded by inferior players, but he needs to prove he can win it all before I put him above Kobe.
by TWolvesFanInLA on Jun 7, 2010 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Championships is a weak argument
The better player doesn’t always win the championship. The best team does. LA has a better team than Cleveland. I would be willing to say that the Cavaliers aren’t much better than the Twolves without LeBron while the Lakers without Kobe would still crush us.
Also, Bill Simmons or Cowherd were talking about LBJ vs Kobe recently. And they said go back and look at 4th quarter of gold medal game. Game was close and when it came time to put it away everyone (LBJ, DWade, Melo etc) deferred to Kobe, who got it done.
by TWolvesFanInLA on Jun 7, 2010 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Granted the Celts are playing well of late
but this year’s playoffs did much to show LeBron is still not there yet, despite his physical skills and prowess. The Cavs also clearly gave up at some point. So it doesn’t matter how good the King is if he can’t at least lead, even in the face of inevitable defeat.
"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please."
Mark Twain
This year’s playoffs prove that the weight of carrying a supporting cast that bad can wear on a great player. Kobe has quit on teams in the past. He’s mailed in plenty of games and seems to actively like proving that his team is worse when he plays poorly. You can’t really argue that Kobe is much better than LeBron when the going gets tough.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
I’m not sure why that really matters. Teammates passing you the ball doesn’t mean you’re better than they are. Howard deferred to Turk in last year’s playoffs in the closing minutes of games. Was Turkoglu the best player on the Magic? All 48 minutes matter—not just the plays drawn up at the end.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
They're wrong and so are you if you believe them.
I watched almost every Olympic game and analyzed the stats from them. Kobe played good defense, but he was godawful offensively. Due to the dearth of anything tangible to rave about, the media was forced to concoct stories about nebulous contributions like “leadership” and “tone setting” in order to massage the egos of Kobe and his legion of followers, as if the other 11 guys, all leaders of their respective NBA teams would have been completely lost without Kobe telling them what to do.
The myth of Kobe’s Olympic clutchness is the same as his regular season clutchness. He makes a lot of memorable shots only because he attempts a ton of them. The media line became that late in Gold Medal game, everyone “deferred to Kobe” who hit a patented clutch three to stem the Spanish rally. What no one talks about was the missed Kobe 3 point attempt that preceded it, or the missed Kobe 3 point attempt the following possession. Did people defer, or was he just going to shoot it no matter what? I say if he’s going to jack up three 3 pointers, making one of them is expected, not extraordinary. Also overlooked: Wade’s equally clutch 3 pointer, the next made FG after Kobe’s shot and subsequent heat check miss. It was that three that really put the game on ice.
by John Doe on Jun 7, 2010 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I was actually waiting for you to chime in
Your point about the myth of clutchiness is very well taken, as you’ve made clear in earlier posts. I entirely agree with you that the media creates memes about this or that (not just sports of course) that then get propagated and treated as empirical reality. So it’s good you’re keeping their feet to the fire.
That said, clutch is a relative term, not absolute. Nobody is obviously going to hit 100% of game winning shots. So although I think you’re correct in debunking the clutch myth, should we dispense with the notion entirely?
"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please."
Mark Twain
Heh, if any post was going to strike a nerve with me, it was that one.
So although I think you’re correct in debunking the clutch myth, should we dispense with the notion entirely?
I would be totally in favor of that. Not to say clutch is meaningless, but it’s so much less important than we’re made to believe it is. What’s more, we don’t even properly evaluate who is clutch and who isn’t. Kobe is the easy example, but Chauncey “Mr. Big Shot” Billups is another guy with a clutch reputation whose actual performance is among the league’s worst. Dirk Nowitzki has a reputation as a choker, but the stats show him to have been arguably the league’s best clutch performer this season.
Evaluating clutchness misleads more often than it clarifies. We’d all have more accurate basketball takes overall if we just ignored it altogether.
I would say that having a player or two who doesn't
shy away from the spotlight in the 4th quarter is a good thing and leave it at that. The term “clutch” just has way too much connotation to it. Every team needs a closer…even if they aren’t very good. :)
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jun 7, 2010 8:41 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree it's in our perception
Billups is another good example. Dirk, a good counter example, though you shouldn’t perhaps invoke stats to support an argument that he is clutch (joking).
Just saw the professor’s post below. Closer may be a better term.
"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please."
Mark Twain
One of the most 'clutch' stats I've noticed
was the 82games list in which defensive stats were included. Some of us here aren’t big Dwyane Wade fans, but down the stretch of games he’s a guard who gets a ridiculous number of blocks, for one little example. The guy turns up the heat.
I remember Isiah Thomas having that extra defensive gear for the stretch of a close game, in a huge way, when the Pistons were at their height.
"Sarchasm": (var. sarcasm) The gap in understanding which occurs when one attempts to be self-deprecating on behalf of others.
Nice point
I used to make a similar counterargument when people said KG wasn’t clutch on offense. My question was who else would you rather have in a clutch situation on defense? It’s as if “clutch” is regarded as an offense-only idea.
The other night's game
would not favor Kobe’s ‘clutchiness’ as an argument.
He made an amazing long three at the close of the first half, which was “clutch.” But as the 4th quarter wound down, the guy forced his own offense badly.
"Sarchasm": (var. sarcasm) The gap in understanding which occurs when one attempts to be self-deprecating on behalf of others.
Kobe was certainly reverting to his old ways last game
He got bailed out by Artest in the Phoenix game too. So JD’s point is well taken. That said, there are closers and there are guys you don’t want taking that last shot either.
"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please."
Mark Twain
Actually, the difference maker in that game was DeWayne Wade
Without Wade in the 2nd and 3rd quarters, the US doesn’t have any chance. Kobe made the shots at the end but without all the points put in by Wade during the middle part of the game, it wouldn’t have meant anything.
I would actually say
That Kobe and Wade are comparable in talent level. Wade would win championships with the same teams Kobe did, I’d reckon. LeBron as well.
by nja700 on Jun 7, 2010 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Watching Wade against the Mavericks
was pretty amazing. Give him better teams (which may well happen soon), we’ll see.
"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please."
Mark Twain
Agree with my fellow fan in LA
Don’t like Kobe either. But he’s not going to be one of the most underrated players of his generation. Not top five in the league or even top 10? Even the Kobe haters here are going to chuckle at that.
"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please."
Mark Twain
LeBron, Wade, Howard, Pau, Paul, Deron Williams are guys I’d definitely put above Kobe at this point. You can make a case for Rondo and Durant as well. He’s a borderline top 10 player in the league. He has the advantage of playing with a fantastic player in Pau and being called the best player on the team. As a result people echo that and say “but he’s the best player on a team that very well could win the finals!” when really, that’s Pau, getting very little credit for doing what it takes to win basketball games.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
If you’re going off the second half of this past regular season, I agree with you. Kobe was playing at his worst level since immediately after the rape charges. Whether that was related to injuries or just a slump, I have no idea. But, for the first half of this season, these playoffs, and the last few seasons, he’s right with LeBron as the best in the business.
This year wasn’t a huge dropoff for him. He scored less efficiently, but other than that, he’s been on about the same level in his past couple seasons as he was this year. He hasn’t been up there with LeBron in a while. LeBron has been a better passer, rebounder and defender for the past three years, the better scorer for the last two (and in that third year back, they were pretty close). LeBron has been dominant. He just hasn’t had help. The difference between LeBron being called a “winner” and a “playoff failure” is his supporting cast. It’s unfair to pin LeBron’s failure to win entirely on his shoulders. Not saying you were, but that seems to be the fallback argument once it’s pointed out that LeBron statistically crushes Kobe.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/gamelog?playerId=110
Take a look at Kobe’s numbers in November and December. He was a front-runner (with LBJ) for MVP, around New Year’s. His scoring and efficiency dropped after that. Much has been made recently of a knee-draining procedure that maybe got his springs back, or something. He’s been playing at that MVP level for a few weeks, now.
LeBron is awesome — I agree with a lof what you’re saying about him. But, so is Kobe, in slightly different ways. He is a lot smarter scorer than LeBron — maybe that’s coaching, too. He puts himself in positions to score… in reliable positions to score, better than LeBron does. Particularly in a seven game series, when there is 100 percent focus on stopping LeBron, he does not have the skill set to dominate 4 out of 7 times against a great team. Kobe has shown that he does have that ability. Whether he shows it again versus Boston, we’ll have to see. Game 3 is going to be a big one.
Kobe might be a “smarter” scorer, but he does it less efficiently than LeBron and at a slightly smaller volume (though it’s close enough where you can call it a push). I’ll take LeBron’s dumber, more effective brand of basketball any day.
And for what it’s worth, Kobe really hasn’t shown that he can be the only focus of a defense and still win titles. Pau and Shaq certainly commanded more attention than anyone LeBron has ever played with, so again, I think it’s unfair to accuse LeBron of having a bad style of basketball to win in the post-season when having better teammates would make the point irrelevent. Teams have to gameplan solely around LeBron. Teams have to gameplan for both Kobe and Pau. That’s Kobe’s playoff edge. That’s why he wins titles and LeBron hasn’t yet.
I think I’m coming off overly-harsh on Kobe to some degree. Right now, I don’t consider him a top 5 NBA player. I don’t. But over the course of his career, he has been great. He just hasn’t been “transcendent talent” great. He’s an elite player who should be kept out of the “greatest ever” discussions. LeBron might get there at some point, but really, it’d be surprising for him to ever be as good as MJ was at his best. So, honestly, we can stop having the “greatest ever” discussions altogether, it’s an insult to Jordan. The real argument should be about the next tier. LeBron isn’t there yet, but neither is Kobe. Kobe has received far too much credit for the titles he’s been a part of. History should view Shaq as the better player, Duncan too, possibly Garnett. Given that he really wasn’t the best player in the league for more than a year or so, should we really put him in the class of player that people tend to? I stand by that he’s overrated. Seriously overrated. But he is a great player—just not as great as the rhetoric has implied.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
Everyone has their own opinions...
and I disagree with yours, but it’s hardly an uncommon view. I come across a lot of people who think Kobe is overrated and nowhere near Jordan territory. I just disagree. I think the rule changes that currently help point guards do nothing to help Kobe’s game. His one on one dominance — moreso a few years back — would have been incredible in the old days of physical, no-zone defense. You either committed a full double team (virtually impossible against a guard, in some situations) or you left Jeff Hornacek on an island with Michael Jordan.
LeBron is the most gifted athlete I’ve ever seen — and he’s probably the best player in the game, today. Kobe was more impressive, in my view, during the Smoosh days where he was playing with D-League talent and making the playoffs. He was truly carrying a team on his back, even if it wasn’t very far.
But yeah, I hear your points, I just disagree. No big deal. I used to argue this topic (Kobe vs MJ, LeBron, etc) a lot more and with more vigor, but I’ve gone through it so many times that I basically just take it for what it is, good basketball conversation.
Sure, I hope I didn’t come across as obnoxious or disrespectful of your view. There are certainly points to be made in Kobe’s favor and (obviously) a lot of people are swayed by them. If no one thought he was phenomenal, he couldn’t be overrated.
And this:
Kobe was more impressive, in my view, during the Smoosh days where he was playing with D-League talent and making the playoffs. He was truly carrying a team on his back, even if it wasn’t very far.
is what I was referring to as the time in which Kobe was the best player in the game. He was ridiculous in those years. In my opinion, those years stack up to the level of LeBron’s best years. Of course, here we see the exact opposite of the title argument. Kobe had a weaker supporting cast, so it’s not fair to criticize him for not getting far in the playoffs. You can say the same about LeBron right now. His cast is a better than Kobe’s from those days and he gets farther in the playoffs. ’05 Kobe vs. present day LeBron is an interesting debate. Two guys in very similar situations, playing fantastic basketball. Now if only LeBron could get a Pau Gasol after his years of carrying a weak team…
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
Not disrespectful at all...
just basically saying that I used to enjoy beating this argument to death but don’t feel like it anymore.
About LBJ – I’m sure he could win a ton of titles as he currently plays, but he’ll need better teammates. As a fan, I’d like to see him try to carry a team as a scorer. Play him as a true forward (rather than point guard/forward) and have him moving around closer to the basket. I’d love to see him play for a creative offensive coach. Mike Brown was a good motivator and defensive teacher, but that 1 on 5 offense was horrible to watch, and that’s saying something considering it had the most fun player to watch in the entire league. As much as it would kill the city of Cleveland, I would really enjoy watching LeBron play for Mike D’Antoni and in his system.
Can you imagine what Nellie would do with him?
He’s so versatile and multi-positional, Nellie wouldn’t know what to do with him. There’s no spot to put LeBron in that would make Nellie look like a mad genius. He would probably try to get too creative and try to win with him playing at upper-deck beer vendor.
by nja700 on Jun 7, 2010 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m just going to smile for the next day and a half with the mental image of Don Nelson coaching LeBron James. Oh, the fun that would be had…
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
In all seriousness
He actually would be pretty awesome to watch in Nellie-ball. Nellie’s public persona just lends itself to comically absurd ideas.
I wouldn’t even care if he coached LeBron on the Warriors. Whichever team had Don Nelson and LeBron James would immediately become my new favorite team. It would be too amazing to not root for.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
Here's the test:..
…trade teams. If LBJ was on the Lakers and Kobe on the Cavs, how would things be different?
I think that the lakers would be better with LeBron than they are with Kobe, and the Cavs would be worse than they are with LBJ.
This is also a test to see just how far in the indents can go. Let’s see…
Random Pau Observation
Gasol was 25 when he made his first All-Star team. He didn’t make it at age 26. He was 27 when traded to the Lakers. From then on, his image has changed from “borderline All-Star big man” to “possibly the best big man in the NBA.” While he certainly improved as a player over the past few years, this case study should be encouraging for Wolves fans:
1) Jefferson is 25. He just turned 24 when he tore his ACL. I remember watching him match up with Pau at Target Center, shortly after the trade, and they played pretty even. Lakers killed us, but Jefferson probably won his individual matchup. At that time, I thought Jefferson was at least as good as Pau.
2) This shows the image transformation that takes place when a good player on a bad team is surrounded by talent. It’d be nice for Jefferson to get that chance in Minnesota. If Pau can jump from borderline All-Star to superstar/possible Finals MVP between ages 27-29, maybe Al can at least make the leap from lumbering one-dimensional scorer with no defense or passing skills to borderline All-Star between the ages of 25-27, and with continued rehab from the injury.
If only
Jefferson was a good player, instead of low post scorer.
Pau was always a good al around player. Maybe not tough, but multifaceted.
by WinTheLottery on Jun 7, 2010 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions
He's also gigantic..
….with legit 7 foot height with long arms and athleticism.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Was switching between the NHL and the NBA
It was a bit sad that the two games were scheduled for the exact same time on a Sunday. While both games were good ones, I have to admit to getting sucked into the hockey game, which was absolutely fabulous.
by Krotz the Wall on Jun 7, 2010 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions
I've been completely sucked in..
….to the hockey. It’s awesome action.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
I love this series
I feel like KG, Allen, Pierce, Kobe — they are all players of my generation — all in the same series. All still playing at an incredible level. I don’t really care who wins. Plus, Gasol has become so awesome.
In the Sandy Koufax wing
he gets in for his uniqueness and peak, despite the short career. He was really something to behold.
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on Jun 6, 2010 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions
One of the best players in the NBA
for the two years he was fully healthy with Portland. I would have to say yes and if he was healthy he may have been top 15-20 all-time.
by Bad News Wolves on Jun 7, 2010 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions
He is? Isnt' he?
I never saw him play in person, but apparently he was something to behold when young and healthy. Start with Kevin Love, add 4-5 inches, add in elite defense and better passing, and I think you get an approximation of Bill Walton compared to a known commodity.
A tremendous college star, at the very least
Walton’s championship game against Memphis State was the most dominant game I’ve ever seen by a single player in a big game. His only ‘miss’ was an offensive goal-tending call. At his prime he was literally amazing. His freshman team at UCLA beat the varsity, who were defending NCAA champs. At the time, all college freshmen were ineligible.
by ogishkemuncie on Jun 6, 2010 11:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Wrong team
Lew Alcindors freshman team beat the champs.
by Adam Chandler on Jun 7, 2010 7:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Close to being in as a player
Career might be a little short, a la Tony Oliva. However, what he has added as a broadcaster over the years makes up for the injury riddled later years, so ya, he should be in if not as a player then as an entirety.
Jim Kaat should get in for the same reason, one of the best baseball announcers of my generation.
Tony O is a good comp
The guy was downright crazy when he was healthy. Plus, Mr. Oliva was a neighbor in Bloomington and I’ll always have a soft spot for the guy.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Kaat was awesome
I learned so much listening to him.
by Rascal Flatts on Jun 6, 2010 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions
I was around 20 years old when Kaat started announcing Twins games
I thought I knew baseball pretty well, but was shocked how much I learned listening to him for a few years. He wasn’t the classic Herb Carneal, but as a TV analyst he has to be among the five best of all time.
worst case scenario, #2
Draft Cousins #4 and he ends up emulating oliver miller. Draft Heyward #16. Euro-stash pick at #23 No one (of any use) comes in FA. Darko stays home. Love/Jeff duo goes on.
End up with about the same talent as 2009 but with a lot of blown chances.
Best case — Turner falls to #4, Al (and maybe #23) traded for say Prince and #7, draft Johnson at #7, and Whiteside at #16. Darko comes. Pek comes. Do we even need Gay at this point? We keep some $ for 2011. Sign a couple good bench guys - Travis Outlaw, Udonis Haslem -- for a year.
Flynn/Sessions
Turner/Brewer
Prince/Johnson/Outlaw
Love/Pek/Haslam
Darko/Whiteside
That’s a pretty good 12. Hollins plays only if someone gets injured.
Sorry, Wayne
Pek can stay in Europe and Ellington goes into the rotation.
Wolves go from weak at wing to strong at wing with this group…
by ChicagoViking on Jun 6, 2010 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree this would pretty much be a nightmare summer
but thankfully it is doubtful.
While they may start a bidding war for Gay, they won’t end it. With the number of teams dripping with cap space, Gay, Johnson, and Boozer actually end up benefitting more than LeBron, and Wade…the latter two get less than they are worth, but are maxed out, the former get overpaid on shorter term deals by desperate teams. Gay will get about $15 million, but only about 4 years.
It’s good to see Love and Rambis hangin, I hope they stick together for another year, while Jefferson heads to GS for Randolph (PD has nightmares, I dream)!
Hopefully
The problem with trading Kevin Love is he’s a historically rare player. I don’t mean this in the sense that he’s going to be one of the Greatest players in league history. I ask how many players in league history.
A. Are one of the best rebounders in the league
B. A potential 40% Three-Point Shooter
C. A Vlade Divac/Brad Miller passing big.
To think this player is not a starter on a Championship Team
You’d have to be the following
A. He’s a horrid defender not worth having on the court. For example- Steve Nash is a terrible defender- yet he still brings way more to the Suns than not. Love’s not a terrible defender as evidenced by synergy stats. He doesn’t play great rotational defense (Which makes him average on D) or above average if you factor in rebounding.
On a side note- I voted for Faroq-Aminu. Then I realized perhaps I should have voted for Paul George. I’m not hating on Wes Johnson- it’s just the age thing bringing a lack of potential upside
by Jose Cordoba on Jun 6, 2010 10:50 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
ive been quiet since de lotto mayn
ay mayn, iss MAYNHOLUP. ive been spending alot uv fuckin time thankin bout dem wolves mayn, whut dey shud do an shit. dis whut i thank:
1. I havent seen him play much, but Favors has ta be de top Wolves prospect to me if you’re to believe that RUbio is comin. He is an Amare clone an we all know how much Khan haz tried his hand ta get him mayn. perfect player nexx ya Rubio an dat “United We Run” shit
2. I like Anthony Rendolph. I like Kevin Love more mayn. Pause. I like Randolph doe an if we can get him for Al it might be worth it.
3. We are forgettin how good Al wuz two years ago. I dont know. He had a fuckin terrible year, didnt look like himself, drunk drove which even MAYNHOLUP duzzint do mayn ima boss. I feel like as soon as we trade hiim we’ll regret it. Juss sayin.
4. If we dont come away with wun uv de top 4 den fuck it. Cousins iz fine.
5. Smoke sum’n bitchhh!
MAYN HOL UP!
MAYNOLUP
You’re the best.
I can now go to bed and sleep peacefully.
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Great to see you again, good sir
Please frequent our humble site more often in the near future!
"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please."
Mark Twain
May I digress.
Johnson > Aminu ?
I’ll admit to not watching much college ball, so what is the thinking behind this?
"I was trying to focus on breathing," Milicic said. "I was just focusing on breathing so I didn’t die."
Aminu
is a combo forward that struggles mightily with outside shooting whereas Johnson is a pure SF with a sweet looking J and similar athleticism. I think people can see Johnson fitting neatly into our squad as a starting SF whereas Aminu is a bit messy in terms of where he’d fit. In my opinion Aminu is still very raw and needs a year or two coming off the bench playing primarily the 4 and some 3 against bigger lineups. Perhaps eventually he improves his outside shot and handles enough to be a credible starting SF.
by Rascal Flatts on Jun 7, 2010 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions
College vs. Pros
I didn’t see very much Aminu at WF, but the impressions I get from reading about him is that he is an active, athletic player that probably benefitted from the chaotic, up-tempo college game. The college game is played faster, and with less control than the NBA game. In my opinion, this is highlighted best by current Timberwolf and former Final Four MOP, Corey Brewer — his game was perfect for college, and not at all ready for the NBA. He is getting better, but still has a long ways to go, in his struggle to slow down and execute the simple plays.
Could Aminu have a little bit of a Corey Brewer-like learning curve ahead of him? That’s what I would worry about, if my team drafted him. I don’t have those worries about Johnson. He plays smooth, shoots the ball with balance and a pure stroke, and has the size and athleticism to do this at the NBA level. His transition to the pros should be a smooth one.
He also did a drive-by with a BB gun and was arrested
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
not if he was the shooter
he just had to be the clueless driver who had no idea where he going or why he was driving and then BANG, the BB Gun goes off…
Both stories...
are a little disturbing. Tyreke’s because it shows what kind of crowd he rolls/ed with. Aminu’s because it shows that he actually is capable of riding around in a car and shooting at women with a BB gun. WTF?
Johnsons can play, be a starter right away
Aminu, not so much.
Kahn has to be thinking he needs at least one immediate start out of this draft, and Johnson is one of the 2 guys we could get that fit that description.
Aminu would take 2 years to get to where Johnson is now. So, so what if Aminu is younger?
The Problem
is we’re a 15 Win Team. We’ve got a long ways to go to contention. This is why the Potentially greater upside of Aminu has to be figured in.
by Jose Cordoba on Jun 7, 2010 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Looking ahead already to #6
Voted W. Johnson 5th, no idea who I’ll go for next. I could literally be talked into any of the other players on there except for Monroe (don’t like his fit, stats, or physical profile). Actually, add that to the list of nightmares: the majority of my Canis Hoopus peers ignore Monroe’s unimpressive college production, inability to play center at the NBA level, lack of BPA status, lack of upside, and effort concerns and vote him 6th on their consensus draft board anyway.
Anyway, I’m not voting for him, but I could be talked into anyone else. Who wants the first crack?
Johnson is clearly a better player now
He’s also three years older than Aminu. Aminu also has a 7’3 Wingspan. He’s a great match-up against stretch 4’s. He gets to the line at an excellent rate. He can impact a game without being a great scorer (Rebounds, Defense). This is why DX has him rated higher on thier board than Wes Johnson.
Tweet from Marc Spears at Yahoo Sports:
Minny has coveted GStates’ Randolph since USA Hoops scrimmage. Draft day trade possible, but Randolph curious about life w/Ellison as owner.
by AnotherDraftPickBitesTheDust on Jun 7, 2010 8:59 AM CDT reply actions
PoorDick's Nightmares
I definitely have the same worries about numbers 1, 2, and 6. I don’t see Rudy Gay as the kind of player that joins a re(re-re-re)-building team, and makes them a lot better. I’d take him 11 times out of 10 over our current options at that position, but I don’t want to overpay the guy.
Trading Love for a “bag of beans” would obviously be stupid. I’m not against trading Love — or Jefferson — but only for fair value. That should go without saying, and the only thing left is the small task of determining what that fair value is. In Love’s case, I would not trade him straight up for Anthony Randolph — but I don’t think that’s a complete no-brainer. I just couldn’t do it, knowing what we know right now about each player.
Re: Flynn, Ellington and Hollins, I think each guy has a little different situation. If the Rubio thing works out, Flynn is not a long-term starter, here. Giving him another full season of starter’s minutes could increase his trade value and/or give him all the seasoning he needs before he becomes Rubio’s backup. Ellington has to play, unless we draft Turner or Johnson — he’s the best shooting guard on the team. Hollins sucks, and I hope he only plays spot minutes when others are in foul trouble.
On the keeping Jefferson nightmare, I tend to side with MAYNHOLUP on this one. I’ve tried to explain this many times, but have never done it as effectively as this:
3. We are forgettin how good Al wuz two years ago. I dont know. He had a fuckin terrible year, didnt look like himself, drunk drove which even MAYNHOLUP duzzint do mayn ima boss. I feel like as soon as we trade hiim we’ll regret it. Juss sayin.
I don't know
I don’t think Jefferson’s production fell off that much. About half of the falloff was due to less playing less minutes and half was due to him truly slowing down a half-step. Many of us had the same complaints about Al before the injury – the poor defense, the poor court vision out of the post, the inability to draw fouls and get to the line, etc.
by Rascal Flatts on Jun 7, 2010 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions
I've been in this discussion...
with others before, and I think that watching the games was more telling than looking at the box scores. I’ve never thought of Jefferson as a good defender, but he was worse, last year. He was slower. He was torched by worse players than in the past.
His offense relied on more-difficult shots. Rather than busting his butt under the basket and showing off his headfake sequences that were so fun to watch in years past, he’d quickly resort to the Kareem-like hook shots. If his percentages and/or production were similar to past years, that just tells me that his sky hook is falling better than it used to. If he can get the old low block game back, with some additional skills from further range, he should be a better offensive player.
Whatever else we say about Al Jefferson,
it’s probably fair to say that he’s due a little redemption after the year he had in 09-10. How awful was that season? Deaths in the family, the DUI, playing the whole year on a recovering knee and looking like it, having the offense shift away from his style of play…. What a dog of a season. He may not be an ideal player here now or ever, but he’s a good guy and I won’t mind seeing him get some bounce back in his step, literally or figuratively, wherever he is next season.
"Sarchasm": The gap in understanding which occurs when one attempts to be self-deprecating on behalf of others.
Well said.
He probably should have rehabbed for the first month or two, rather than jump into playing games. He looked worst at the beginning and end of the year. To me, that says he was out of shape, played his way into shape for a while, and then wore down (maybe more mentally than physically). In any case, it was his worst season as a Timberwolf, and I hope that changes for the better next year.
Regardless of what people think of Big Al
we should all be rooting for him to do better because a) yeah, he is a good guy like you said, and b) we need to get as much value from him as possible, either on our roster or in exchange for something else.
by Rascal Flatts on Jun 7, 2010 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I think highly of Al as well, and think he could have a big year if his legs are back under him in 2010-11.
But not if he is playing high post/away from the basket as much as the Wolves seem to want to do now.
When at full speed, his moves on the block are second to none. This can be a serious weapon if leveraged. I don’t buy into the black hole piece completely – he has had lousy three-point shooters for most of his tenure here, making 1-on-2 attempts closer to the basket rational decisions (even though better shooters could either convert open attempts or keep the defense more honest giving him more space). He and Foye had a good thing going inside/outside in January 2009 during the only time the offense has looked functional in the past three seasons (though I know that month has been erased from the record books here, like the Gophers Final Four run from the NCAA books).
All that said, he can’t put the ball on the floor and you don’t want him shooting from the elbow. As stated above I don’t think he is an entirely unwilling passer, but he isn’t going to turn into Pau Gasol finding cutters from the high post either. Whatever Kahn says on the radio, it looks like they are committed to the triangle/motion O – and Al doesn’t really fit that scheme. For better or worse, he needs to play back to the basket to do what he does best.
A lesson from dealing KG too late has to be that you look to pull the trigger on a trade once you figure out that it isn’t going to work.
He's not unwilling
he’s just not a natural passer. KG was always a step ahead in terms of vision – hitting cutters and making great passes right on time. Al is a reactionary passer who has to see the pass to make it, unlike a natural like KG/CWebb/Miller/Vlade etc.
Ditto defense. I think he tries, and I think he’s working on improving, but he’s just not a natural rotator/defender. I think he COULD be a very very good defender if he had the mental tools to be be a step ahead of the offense as he’s got good length and timing. As it is, he’s too frequently caught sealing his man while a guard drives by him and just generally not paying attention to stopping the ball.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
Defense
Yeah, he sometimes gets blocks and steals without hardly leaving the floor. I think there was a game or two he gave Dwight Howard some problems because he was able to strip the ball from him. But that is also his biggest problem on defense – he plays too much with his hands and doesn’t move his feet. I don’t know how many times I saw him give ground to a guy and go for the strip, only to get a fist full of air while the guy was slamming it home. He seemed to give positional defense the college try midway through the season and actually took a couple of charges. But that quickly disappeared during the last third of the year.
by Rascal Flatts on Jun 7, 2010 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Yessssss--
A lesson from dealing KG too late has to be that you look to pull the trigger on a trade once you figure out that it isn’t going to work.
A silver lining in last year’s dismal performance is that there is little worry of:
1. Kahn thinking he’s smarter than the rest of the league
2. He and the rest of the team finding reason to stand pat with what they have, rather than starting the triage process right away
I hope that we didn't need last year's performance...
to tell us that Brewer-Gomes-Wilkins-Pavlovic is not going to cut it for the shooting guard and small forward positions.
I think Brewer
was thought to be improving his way to being a starter. The rest were stop-gaps thrown against the wall.
His moves in the post might be second to none
but the results are inferior to a lot of other bigs. For all of his great moves, he still doesn’t convert at a high enough % or draw enough fouls to really be as efficient as you’d think he should be. That’s my major gripe with the guy. I’ll take the subpar defense and reluctant passing if he could jam the ball down opponents’ throats more frequently and get them in foul trouble.
by Rascal Flatts on Jun 7, 2010 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Counterpoint
I don’t really have the stats on isolation versus not FG%, but using 82games.com on a bunch of big men midseason and finding that a lower percentage of Al Jefferson’s field goals were assisted than any other elite big man. He’s still at just 45% assisted now at the end of the season, so I suspect this is still true.
Everyone’s efficiency is lower on isolations. If Jefferson has a greater proportion of his offense come on isolations, it will lower his overall efficiency, even if he isn’t actually that much worse than other post men.
Just something to think about. Like I said, I wouldn’t know where to find the stats to back it up.
Al's problem though is that his whole game is
based upon unassisted isolation plays. He goes through a patented set of fakes and shimmies to get his shot off. Very rarely does Al ever cut to the hoop. I am always shocked when he does. He relies on his moves way too much and it limits both him and the offense.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jun 7, 2010 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Pick and roll and two-man inside-outside game are two of the simplest and most effective basketball plays.
Al’s post game should be able to be featured in inside/outside with a player who can hit catch-and-shoot threes, make reasonably quick decisions, and an entry pass. It doesn’t hurt to have spacing with the rest of your players that is something other than self-destructive. Unfortunately for Al and we fans, these pieces haven’t come into place.
Now I am not arguing that we start to build around Al’s post game at this point (actually the opposite, that he should be moved this offseason). Or that he doesn’t have holes in his game. But that post game would look a lot better if not surrounded by dysfunction.
I agree with both of you
Al’s post game could be an integral part of an efficient offense. He’s not doomed to uselessness.
But he’s not exempt from criticism. The system and wings suck, but he also bears some responsibility for not doing more to look for ways to get efficient points.
I think we all see the same thing
I think Al has either fallen into a rut of doing the same thing over and over again (because it works) and doesn’t really use/develop some of the other aspects of his game that he should/could have which would make him a more complete player and much more dominant.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jun 7, 2010 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Exactly
Whether or not the Wolves get rid of Al will show whether or not they are really running a “running team” because Al’s game is the polar opposite.
by BetterLaettnerThanRider on Jun 7, 2010 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Fair enough
I watched nearly every game and agree that there were times where he looked like a 37-year old veteran…..just super sluggish and creaky. But statistically his numbers did not fall off that much.
One thing I did notice is that there were a number of games late in the season when he was starting at PF next to Darko and he would have a real nice 1st quarter, going 3-4, 4-5, 5-7, etc. – really just lighting it up in the post – only to fade away later in the game. I’ve always liked Jefferson better at PF than C because I believe he offensively performs a lot better against players that are his size or smaller vs. some of the bigger Centers.
by Rascal Flatts on Jun 7, 2010 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions
that and PFs are more prone to leaving their feet
when al does his pump fakes. Centers tend to stand there and wait.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jun 7, 2010 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree, in part.
I think Al is a better player this next season than he was the last. The injury he had, the rehab time and the recovery time, prevented him from ever being at the top of his game last season. Now, I have a suspicion that Al will never be quite as good as he was 2 years ago.
The question that I have then is, what do you do about it? I don’t think that the Wolves can trade either Jefferson or Love at fair value at this time. Al didn’t play at the level of his contract last year, and looks slow and and terrible on defense. Love didn’t get playing time last year, got benched and had his attitude questioned. Add in the fact that it is generally believed that the Wolves ‘HAVE’ to trade one of the two, especially sitting at #4. Trading either now won’t net what it should. Both will fit really well in the right situation.
I just believe that the Wolves have to bring a balanced team to the floor this year. They might need to sacrifice perceived potential value on one of their assets to make things happen. It is probably beyond ‘might’ by now.
by Krotz the Wall on Jun 7, 2010 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Balance
Some want to win now, at nearly any cost — some want to build a championship contender, even if it means waiting year after year to strike gold in the lottery. Most are probably somewhere in between.
Regarding Love-Jefferson, I would trade either of them if it could bring back a Danny Granger, or even OJ Mayo caliber wing. That, to me, is balancing the roster for the good of the team — both short and long term. But, it doesn’t sound like those deals are going to happen. It sounds (at least from the rumor mill) like Granger is not attainable and that Love is more likely to land us Anthony Randolph-caliber talent, or maybe something slightly better. I have no problems with Love-Jefferson-Darko as the 4/5 trio for the long term. Love and Darko can pass. Love and Jefferson can rebound. Darko can defend. Jefferson can score. There is a lot of talent there.
Why not, if there are no good trades available, just address the wing positions in this draft? Offer 4 and 16 for Evan Turner, or offer 4 for 5 (Wes Johnson) and whatever change we can get with that. Then make an offer to JJ Redick. Or draft X. Henry or James Anderson (if we get Johnson, and don’t trade away 16/23 for Turner.) I think there are ways to balance the roster, improve the team both near and long-term, without ditching Love/Jefferson for less than full value. Neither player is getting old, so there’s no reason to rush that decision.
Tony Rice
Stop-n-Pop’s Tony Rice posting is a tribute to his discerning musical taste. But Tony Rice as a flat-picking guitarist is still in icon to two generations of pickers. And still at the top of his game after 40 years. Others may have attained his technical virtuosity but nobody combines that with his flawless taste and musical imagination. The reason his celebrity has diminished is because in the mid-90’s he lost his unique lead singing voice, at the time the very best in all of bluegrass. An operation failed to restore it, but his playing is still the best.
Many thanks for giving the Canis world a chance to hear this remarkable talent in its full display. Go Wolves….
No problem. It's almost hard to hear him...
…speak anymore. It’s completely gone.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
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