The Dallas Mavericks and Minnesota Timberwolves continue to exchange proposals on an Al Jefferson trade and moved closer to a deal over the weekend, according to sources with knowledge of the talks.
But the sides still don't have a done deal, sources said, despite the fact that Dallas has somewhat eased its stance on the inclusion of Erick Dampier's lucrative non-guaranteed contract in a trade for Jefferson.
It also appears that the Mavericks have some fresh competition for Jefferson from the Utah Jazz.
Sources told ESPNDallas.com that the Mavericks would ultimately consent to part with Dampier's $13 million contract in a Jefferson swap if the Wolves also agree to take on the contracts of DeShawn Stevenson and Matt Carroll, thereby lessening the financial hit Dallas faces by absorbing the three years and $42 million remaining on Jefferson's deal.
But Minnesota has thus far resisted Dallas' attempts to include Stevenson and Carroll in trade discussions and would insist on two conditional future first-round picks if those players are included, sources said.
Sources said the Wolves, furthermore, are also receiving sustained interest in Jefferson from the Jazz, who have a trade exception created by their recent Carlos Boozer sign-and-trade with Chicago that is believed to be large enough to take in Jefferson's contract.
It is unclear, though, what other assets Utah would be willing to part with in a Jefferson deal after losing Boozer and Kyle Korver in free agency and with a decision looming on whether to match the five-year, $34 million offer sheet Portland has tendered to Jazz guard Wesley Matthews.
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If we take in Carroll and Stevenson
Plus Dampier, who else are we sending back!
Matt Carroll – Just Say No!
I think this is the first time in history one man managed to destroy an entire city by himself. Even the Enola Gay had a flight crew.
by Auswolf on Jul 12, 2010 6:53 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
This is good news
pitting two competitors in the West against each other.
Utah and the Mavs should drive the price up by themselves. Neither of them want each other to get Jefferson (as they both know damn well he is going at a discount).
Rudy Gay: Feeding his family since 7/1/10
Not a bad market out there
But not great. It really is probably gonna come down to which team we can get to give us their TPE/expiring without taking on their bad contracts. Hopefully we can find more suitors to get involved (Cleveland also being mentioned by writers and pundits) to drive down their asking prices while possibly raising ours.
Carroll would be fine. Stevenson's the one to avoid
Matt’s a poor man’s Kyle Korver, which isn’t to bad for the role he’d be playing
Good to see Utah jump in. Another possible TPE and more competition for the Mavs and Cavs. The fact that the Mavs are changing their minds about Dampier seems to indicate Jefferson is in demand enough that teams are going to ante up against each other
I'd take Stevenson over Carroll
Both worthless, but only gotta pay Stevenson for one year
Dallas trade
If the Wolves are taking back any contracts they need to make damn sure that Hollins is going with Jefferson. He’s the only Wolves contract I’d deem bad.
by jama on Jul 12, 2010 7:24 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
How many years does Hollins have left?
by Achilles Fang 1 on Jul 12, 2010 7:58 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I think only this year is guaranteed...
Team option?
I looked ahead to the open road, thought about the people and what they know, and wrote a book called "People Don't Know Nothin!"
no
player option
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on Jul 12, 2010 8:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Not according to Hoopshype
Both years guaranteed, second is a player option
What are the chances he declines?
I put them at 1 in a kajillion. We should insist he is part of any Jefferson trade.
by Achilles Fang 1 on Jul 12, 2010 8:59 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Just a reminder...
…to everyone that we have the most up to date Wolves contract list out there:
http://www.canishoopus.com/pages/contract-info
As soon as official numbers become available, we update it.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Best Deal for Al
If it comes down to Dallas, Utah, Cleveland, and may Orlando in a trade for Al. What would be the best deal we could realistically get and be happy with from each team. I’d like to hear what people think. Thanks.
It’s nice to see Kahn playing hardball. Asking for a pair of conditional first rounders is a nice way to get Dallas to back off Stevenson and Carrol. One thing is for sure. We are going to get a nice asset to use at the deadline.
by Achilles Fang 1 on Jul 12, 2010 8:03 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Don't unload Jefferson
without considering all the available options. A market is created when a willing seller and a willing buyer appear. A competitive market, one where the trade value goes up, is when more than one buyer is in competition with the other.
I mentioned two weeks ago that Jefferson’s trade value would go up after the first wave or two of free agents, given that there is more dollars chasing fewer credible trade options. The teams that went into free agency with plenty of cap space and high fan expectations are in an acquiring mood.
For the record, I’m still not in favor of trading Al at present.
Why not?
With Dallas, Utah, Cleveland and possibly Orlando bidding for Al I think the market might be ripe for a trade. New York isn’t interested because or fit and Melo. I don’t think New Jersey is interested. This is probably as good as it’s going to get. An expiring contract or TPE will most likely be more valuable at the deadline. For one thing their value can’t be affected by injury or poor play. Now is the moment we have been waiting for and Kahn needs to take advantage of this opportunity.
by Achilles Fang 1 on Jul 12, 2010 8:37 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I have zero confidence in Kahn with TPE
and Al is better than Love and Beasley even when performing in the second year of his 2-year knee injury.
I guess I misunderstood
I thought you were suggesting we wait to trade Al until his value is maximized. I like Al’s game. The only issue I have is that he is not a good passer out of the post. That is a skill that bigs either have or they don’t. It is not something that develops over time.
I really think you should start having more confidence in Kahn. He has done a terrific job maintaining cap flexibility. He has improved our team. Not a hard task to be sure but the players he added fit into his philosophy. He didn’t jump the gun on a big Al trade and seems to be maximizing his value. He has hired a competent staff. He picked up Beasely for nothing. What more do you want from the guy.
by Achilles Fang 1 on Jul 12, 2010 8:52 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
???
I think most would agree that Al has hit his ceiling (and it would be best case for him to regain his 08-09 pre injury form)…while Beasley has put up better than advertised numbers and has tremendous upside…at some point you are griping just to gripe…
a competitive market
also requires more than one seller, otherwise you have a monopoly. which would be good for the wolves.
Wolves really find themselves in an oligopoly or monopolistic competition kind of market in terms of their selling of Al Jefferson. At risk of earning a stern rebuke from Rev. Jackson:
The product the Wolves wish to trade is unique, but it does have substitutes that are available from other sellers.
do you think we have interest in a matched/traded wesley matthews?
al/hollins for kirilenko/matthews/1st?
oh man, never mind
portland is insane… wtf why would they want matthews THAT badly?!
by callmeishmael on Jul 12, 2010 8:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe they just like bugging Utah. They signed Millsap to an offer sheet last year.
If I’m Utah, I let Matthews go and just bring back Ronnie Brewer on the cheap. D-Will likes him, he played well for them, and if he’s cheaper than Matthews, why not? If they did that, they would’ve essentially just picked up a free Memphis draft pick for loaning Brewer to them for a few months.
Orlando preferred
I’d like to see Al go to Orlando to see if his presence next to Howard helps throw a monkey wrench into the Miami Express. That would be fun to watch. Gortat and Redick back to us would be nice.
No need for more role players
by Achilles Fang 1 on Jul 12, 2010 9:10 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Marc Stein: Utah In Lead for Al
Would use trade exception from Carlos Boozer plus picks.
Incidentally, I like Al Jefferson under Sloan’s system with a great point guard. Good luck, Al, you deserve it.
Oh for sure. I wish the guy nothing but the best. Unfortunately his fate was sealed when Mchale drafted Love instead of Lopez. I really like the part where it says plus picks. Utah really wants to keep Williams happy I guess.
by Achilles Fang 1 on Jul 12, 2010 8:43 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
approve of that?
so does that mean you would sign off on that…?
Yes! What I was hoping for
when I wrote this last week:
http://www.canishoopus.com/2010/7/5/1553503/wolves-updates-7-5#41326368
And if Utah is willing to use the Trade Exception – even better!! I figured we would need to take Kirilenko for a year.
Wish I could.....
but everyone knew that Utah was not in a position to rebuild, they needed to reload. And their staff is confident they can get Big Al to play within their offense/defense system.
I met Jerry Solan once in a basketball setting – fantastic guy. I think he would really get Big Al to shine.
Is Jerry Sloan ever NOT in a basketball setting
Like, could one happen upon him in a museum or a grocery store? I think not.
by Rascal Flatts on Jul 12, 2010 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Right
I imagine that would a form of torture that not even the Bush CIA would authorize.
by Rascal Flatts on Jul 12, 2010 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions
About as good as could be hoped for
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on Jul 12, 2010 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh, no doubt
I have no confidence at all.
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on Jul 12, 2010 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Why the vote of no confidence?
by Achilles Fang 1 on Jul 12, 2010 9:09 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Because I don't think Kahn is very good at his job
I’m dubious about his player evauation, I think he suffers from hubris, and sometimes I think he’s in a little above his head.
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on Jul 12, 2010 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Anyone that thinks they are capable of running a multi-million dollar organization is probably suffers from hubris. I guess this is where we agree to disagree. I think he is doing a decent job and stated several examples in a previous comment. As for player evaluation, jury’s still out.
by Achilles Fang 1 on Jul 12, 2010 9:18 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Player Evaluation
Small sample size, but giving Milicic $20 million and taking Jonny Flynn over Stephen Curry is a pretty good indication that his ability to evaluate players is suspect. Also, trading Ty Lawson and Luke Babbitt, both of whom figure to be contributing members to good teams, are going to go down as poor decisions IMHO. I agree that he seems to be in over his head. He kept talking about stockpiling assets and he has exhausted those assets with a bunch of crud to show for it.
by GminskiGeek on Jul 12, 2010 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Darko’s contract, I think, is open to interpretation. I think most here agree it is NOT the boneheaded move the national media seem to think. Flynn over Curry, yeah, bad call so far. But Kahn can articulate reasons for his decision that are cogent at least. And, as we’ve noted here many times before, Lawson and Babbitt were not traded. The picks were traded, but because of NBA rules, you must make the pick for your trade partner and then send the player.
by stuntmonkeys on Jul 12, 2010 11:27 PM CDT up reply actions
people have a really hard time with that concept
Damn the NBA and their stupid draft trade rules…it is almost geared to make teams look bad.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jul 13, 2010 6:53 AM CDT up reply actions
Let's not confuse "less than optimal" with "crud"
Jonny Flynn was worse than Stephen Curry but also better than Jordan Hill, Demar DeRozan, Terrence Williams, Earl Clark, Austin Daye, Gerald Henderson… And Martell Webster was a valuable contributor to a playoff team. Are they the guys I’d have chosen? No, but that doesn’t mean they’re not going to be useful.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jul 13, 2010 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions
I still can't get my head around his drafting...
….but I’ve come around to this position if we’re just comparing this year’s roster to 08 and 09. It’s better.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Best part of a TPE
Glen doesn’t have to pay anyone until it is exercised. They save millions which makes Glen happy because Target Center has been empty.
+++ Attention +++
David Kahn teleconference audio coming soon to timberwolves.com
Kahn to address Al Jefferson rumors and Beasley deal.
By the way
Dallas got re-interested in Big Al the minute Haslem resigned with Miami.
In a roundabout way...
Minny’s really benefitting from the Heat makeover. Villainous team or no, the Wolves have gotten essentially a free shot at a guy two years removed from being the #2 overall pick, and now they’re helping out Minny’s leverage with Al.
I was worried
this Bad Contract might not go through-
Weird
I don’t get this. Unless Sessions is being moved with Al or in a different deal. Ridnour is probably a better shooter.
by Achilles Fang 1 on Jul 12, 2010 9:25 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
So... a question from a Jazz fan
How good is Jefferson defensively?
(We’ve just suffered through Boozer… is Jefferson an improvement?)
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
SLC Dunk
I'm on Twitter
No
He really isn’t a good defensive player.
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on Jul 12, 2010 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Don’t take EiM’s word as gospel, he’s pessimistic about everything ;)
Al is not a great defender, but neither is Boozer, and the question is whether Jefferson is an improvement. Jefferson will be a better defender than Boozer in the post and will definitely block more shots there. Jefferson will be a worse defender on the pick on roll and guarding stretch bigs.
Not sure who is “better” or “worse” overall, depends on what you need.
Thanks for that
So if the biggest concern is the Lakers bigs…
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
SLC Dunk
I'm on Twitter
Well then
I guess we’ll take it. ;)
(Its almost like trading Boozer for an exception and then trading that exception for Boozer, v.2.0, but I guess we’ll see)
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
SLC Dunk
I'm on Twitter
If Jefferson is healthy and conditioned...
you’re upgrading from Boozer. Jefferson is a beast on the low block and hasn’t had anybody in the same universe as Deron Williams in his backcourt. Pau Gasol’s image transformed mightily when he joined Kobe. A similar, but probably less significant, image transformation will occur if Jefferson joins D-Will and plays the Robin role on a 48-52 win ballclub.
Utah isn’t winning any titles with their current roster plus Al Jefferson, but they can maintain their quality play, being one big piece from true contention. The way things look, their current group is lottobound, barring a deal like this one.
His deficiencies..
…seem to be more mental than physical in terms of defense. He’s very long and rebounds well. His problem is that he just seems to get locked into doing one thing at a time and when something new pops up, he looks like a deer in headlights.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
The other point I'd add
is that like Karl Malone, Jefferson likes to go for the strip when his opponent goes up for a shot. It seems like once a game or so Jefferson will get a steal or cause a TO with this maneuver. On the other hand, it’s a bad habit since he plays D with his hands and not his feet. If he doesn’t get a deflection with his hands, it’s usually two points for his opponent.
by Rascal Flatts on Jul 13, 2010 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Al's Defense
The positive is he’ll rebound well and block shots. His rotations are horrid. He also lacks Foot Speed.
In all fairness though
He’d look a lot better playing with AK 47, Wesley Matthews?? and Deron Williams. Then matador defenders like Ryan Gomes, and Jonny Flynn.
Good Article on Trade Exceptions
I found the following article that does a good job of explaining trade exceptions (for those of us who needed more details).
It’s interesting how many of them never were used which kind of makes their value less than advertised. You’ve got to wonder, especially with all the big ones created in the last 12 days, how many of them really will get used.
http://thedawggs.blogspot.com/2010/07/assessing-nba-trade-exception-market.html
Visit my D2 Baseball Blog - Northern Sun Baseball
Terrific link
It says what many of us figured—TPEs aren’t worth a whole lot unless you happen to be the guy who made a fortune in the wedding invitation business. But if that Utah trade happens, get ready, fans! New windows of opportunity!
by Neumms on Jul 12, 2010 10:35 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, we get it
You don’t trust Kahn. I respect your basketball knowledge (you know far more than I do), but can we forget about these negative posts for a while? I mean, rail on specifics all you want, but these general negative posts are neither entertaining nor enlightening. Sorry, buddy. :)
by stuntmonkeys on Jul 12, 2010 11:24 PM CDT up reply actions
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