Minnesota Timberwolves general manager David Kahn is once again changing directions on his franchise’s future at point guard.
As a possible prelude to the trading of Ramon Sessions(notes), Luke Ridnour(notes) has agreed in principle to a four-year, $16 million contract with the Wolves, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.
The Wolves are discussing a deal with the Charlotte Bobcats, sources said, that could send Sessions to replace Raymond Felton(notes), who signed a free-agent contract with the New York Knicks. Charlotte wants to first exhaust free-agent options before it turns to the trade. Minnesota signed Sessions to a four-year, $16 million contract a year ago.
Ridnour’s deal is expected to be finalized as soon as Wednesday.
From Yahoo Sports. I won't pretend to understand this one. Not even with the pending Sessions trade. Yours truly is in the middle of a kitchen remodel so there may be more later...maybe not. Consider this the Ridnour/Sessions open thread.
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Veteran Presence
I’ve assumed all Off Season Sessions would be moved and we would get a veteran PG.
by NorthernLights666 on Jul 14, 2010 1:01 PM CDT reply actions
Exactly
Flynn needs a mentor of sorts, so will Rubio, and so does the rest of our extremely young team.
Brian Cardinal is available
Where’s the line for the firing squad? Over here?
I can predict the future using Norm Van Lier's crystal balls.
"Sam has a tendency to denigrate reports coming from any reporter who didn’t also cover the day Naismith first put up the peach baskets." - snley
by NBA Observer on Jul 14, 2010 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions
dont hate on the emotional leader of the team.
"Brian Cardinal left Purdue being the only Boilermaker to receive both the "Mr. Hustle" Award and the "Courage" Award four years in a row"
Now, if we can a veteran big....
Especially if it’s no Pek!
by ChicagoViking on Jul 14, 2010 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions
I wonder
how much of a factor playing behind Jennings was in the decision to bring him over. Could this help him mentor Flynn? I also wonder why he had such a career year last year. Was it only because it was a contract year or because he played behind Jennings or some combination of both. Will be interested to see how this plays out
Because
He was on the Second Team, he’s always been used as a Starter when he should’ve been a backup all along.
by NorthernLights666 on Jul 14, 2010 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Moved for what?
The bobcats have almost nothing I’d be interested in. There was a deckchair comment someone made in another post that probably applies here.
Doesn't really matter what we get
Basically we can think of it as a Sessions for Ridnour trade. Anything extra would be neat, but not necessary
too long. I’d understand it because Ridnour MIGHT fit better in the triangle (I thought we didn’t use it that much but still…) but again four year? And Rubio is coming over next year … 3rd string PG for 4mil a year? huhn?
It's my belief that Flynn will be Gone once Rubio comes. Flynn is a starting PG in a year or two
His trade value will be decent next year I think.
by Timberwolf i.e. Albatross on Jul 14, 2010 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions
agreed
All of this only makes sense for us trading Flynn next year. I think Kahn has believed since last year’s draft night that one of those guys would be traded at some point. Since Rubio looks like a lock to be here next year, this year is all about maximizing Flynn’s trade value.
+1
I think they will probably showcase Flynn to trade him next year.
by Breaking Ankles on Jul 14, 2010 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Movable pieces
Flynn, Sessions, Ridnour are all easily movable. Everything is fluid in the world of Kahn.
hm, that is a valid point .. still think it should have been less but if it gets us some wins and ridnour didn’t wanna sign for less years wel .. ok
by Wim (Belgium) on Jul 14, 2010 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions
What is the point of signing/drafting players to move them? Are they really THAT high on Ridnour? When and if Rubio comes over (hopefully next year), you can easily sign a PG of Ridnour’s ability as a backup at that time.
No, they're not that high on Ridnour
but some contending team next year will, and if we can squeeze another 1st Round pick from a team at next year’s deadline for him, then why not? We need a veteran presence at PG.
by NorthernLights666 on Jul 14, 2010 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Another Pessimisstic Wolves fan
How original!
by NorthernLights666 on Jul 14, 2010 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, also think it’s a bit doubtfull since .. why wouldn’t that team just sign him now? Not saying we WONT get anything back .. but it’s doubtfull. Don’t hold your breath on getting something back for sessions either.
by Wim (Belgium) on Jul 14, 2010 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions
It's not pessimism.
For the most part, I’ve been pretty pleased with the offseason. I’m just questioning the move.
I agree
I love pretty much everything else, including the draft (I think Wes will be a fine player for a long time and DMC will too, but I think we took the right guy for out plan) but I dislike this Ridnour deal. Like I said in another thread, if he was a lights-out 3 points shooter with his skillset, I’d like the move. As it is he’s just average.
No
I think they had to move Sessions. Ramon was too inconsistent, and at times,
played out-of-control. I think they got Ridnour, because pretty much, there wasn’t
much left in the market for good point guards. They were all taken. There were
a couple of headcases out there, but I don’t think TW Operations likes taking
a chance on head-cases. Now they should find a home for Brewer and the
guys who never see minutes. I prefer to keep Koufos over Hollins. Hollins
is not even a good back-up. I hope they don’t deal Koufos. I see a lot of talent
in him..
"You don't have the talent, but you can work harder than everyone else."
by WillistonCoyote on Jul 14, 2010 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions
I think this signing
and the likelihood of the lockout are an indication that Rubio will not be coming over until the 2012 season.
At least.
Or not
Tweet from Jerry Z:
Rick Bonnell’s reporting Charlotte will sign Shaun Livingston. There goes Sessions-to-Cats possibility.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
But is Livingtson the starter
on an all-in playoff team? I like the guy for the project he is, and I’m not enamored with Sessions. But I’d sure take Ramon over Livingston to start the season.
Don't they have Augustin?
Wouldn’t he be the starter anyway? I am not up on my Charlotte Bobcats depth chart.
I would contend that neither look like starters at this point
Sessions would still seem viable.
I looked ahead to the open road, thought about the people and what they know, and wrote a book called "People Don't Know Nothin!"
I don't think that signing precludes them from going for Sessions...
Livingston hasn’t been a rotation player since he had that horrifying injury.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jul 14, 2010 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions
I still say the deal is already done, we just don't know what it is
Nobody signs a backup PG at those prices without first lining up a destination for the current backup PG. Right? Right??
Jordan backed out?
Jordan is known around the league as a guy who verbally agrees to a deal and then backs out at the last minute. He did it a couple of days ago to Toronto. I hope this isn’t the case with a Sessions deal.
Larry Brown wants a DEFENSIVE PG again not MJ backing out but he has to get Browns approval.
Sessions is a poor defender It wouldn’t workout.
Why did we give Sessions so much guaranteed money last year? No one else was interested paying then not even the bucks that spent a lot on Gooden co and no one is now without taking out some of their garbage.
Also--depending on the Dampier situation
and what happens with Pek, one of the Bobcats of interest to the Wolves might be Nazi Mohammed or Sagana Diop.
Agreed on Mohammed
since he’s got 1 year left, he’d make a good “whoops, we need another big man” big man.
Glad to see it makes us both worse…
Indiana still makes more sense to me though from a need perspective (Ford? Price?), and we can basically do the exact same deal with them. Noting Mplax’ comment below, Indiana would surely be a better “give us a pick” target too…
I looked ahead to the open road, thought about the people and what they know, and wrote a book called "People Don't Know Nothin!"
Furthermore
With Houston matching Lowry’s Cleveland offer sheet, the Cavs are back in the mix too.
Here’s a quick multi-teamer that I’d go for.
I looked ahead to the open road, thought about the people and what they know, and wrote a book called "People Don't Know Nothin!"
Why the inclusionson
of Hollins? That could scare off Cleveland.
I’m fine with Sessions for Rudy straight up.
Well, their frontcourt is really small, with just Andy and Antawn
So I was gifting them Hollins ;)
“No, trust me, you’ll just fall in love with his length and athleticism!!”
I looked ahead to the open road, thought about the people and what they know, and wrote a book called "People Don't Know Nothin!"
Doesn't work under the cap straight up
Here’s one that does work, I think:
Sessions and Brewer (and Ellington if they want him, but it works either way)
for Fernandez and Pryzbilla. Might have to throw in a pick to get them to do it.
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on Jul 14, 2010 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Yah
Not sure how I blanked on trade exceptions/players not being allowed together. I blame the damn trade machine for letting me do it mindlessly.
Regarding your trade, I think Portland has really fallen out of love with Rudy, and who knows if Przybilla will ever be able to contribute again. Long story short, I probably wouldn’t offer an additional pick there.
I looked ahead to the open road, thought about the people and what they know, and wrote a book called "People Don't Know Nothin!"
Things I do not care for from the Bobcats:
Dampier’s contract
Just about every player on their roster (Gerald Wallace excepted)
Things I do want from the Bobcats:
Hollins erasies
Picks of any round
Cash Money
A third team
Rudy Gay: Feeding his family since 7/1/10
by Mplax on Jul 14, 2010 1:22 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Disagree
I read on Timberwolves Territory, the new blog link, that we could be moving Sessions for Dampier’s contract. They say if we get him we can release him and pay him nothing. Plus, we wouldn’t have to pay Sessions his $4 mill so that’s off the books, putting us $22 mill under the cap. To reach the league min. salary we need to spend about $4.5 mill AFTER Ridnour signs at $4 mill a year. Again, all hypothetical, but this would be amazing right? What else is better?
Uhhhh
I’d rather not trade an asset with positive value for nothing. I’m well aware we can cut Dampier, but that doesn’t make it worth erasing Sessions just so we can sign Ridnour to take his place.
Rudy Gay: Feeding his family since 7/1/10
I figure we have to do one of the following
Trade Sessions in a salary dump or trade Sessions for a wing, then trade Brewer in a salary dump.
Both players are better than salary dumps but we have 11 players right now that deserve PT
(Flynn, Sessions, Ridnour, Webster, Brewer, Ellington, Johnson, Love, Beasley, Darko, Pek). And after watching Hayward for a little in the Summer league I wouldn’t mind seeing him get some run.
Unless we can get Rudy for Sessions, (which would require a 3rd team) I’d rather dump Sessions. Maybe we can get a 2nd rd pick out of it.
I guess I'd like to think
that while it’s not much, both Brewer and Sessions have positive value. In terms of value maximization, I’m not ok dumping a positive value asset for nothing. I’d much rather combine 2 or 3 of those assets to a team that needs more depth and is looking to part ways with a better contributor (Most likely at the deadline. We can offer cap space and a lot of pieces that they can try to plug into their puzzle. Might not be much, but the capspace and a poopoo platter of assets might be enough to swing a deal our way instead of another).
I’d even be ok dumping Sessions for space and a future second round pick as long as Ridnour is on the way in. But as I have said before, Ridnour is absolutely not enough better (if at all) to warrant dumping Sessions and adding a year to the deal for nothing. The lack of asset maximization is getting to me. The draft pushed some buttons…
Rudy Gay: Feeding his family since 7/1/10
Ugh...
I guess I should give David Kahn the benefit of the doubt and assume he had a trade of Sessions or Flynn lined up BEFORE signing Luke Ridnour, because making this signing without a trade lined up would be INCREDIBLY idiotic.
I have a question for the David Kahn defenders. If David Kahn quit today, and began looking for jobs…would any team offer him a POBO position? Any?
Talking myself into DeMarcus Cousins since 5/18/10
In any profession
It’s a bit of a resume detractor to quit in the middle of the job.
I looked ahead to the open road, thought about the people and what they know, and wrote a book called "People Don't Know Nothin!"
I think you assume...
That the people who realize he hasn’t done a great job but would like to talk about other, more useful things are actually defending him. “I think I’m right and I like being right so I’m going to keep saying I’m right” gets tired on any site that’s not the Strib boards or RubeChat.
It’s also not clear who the driving force behind this deal was. Maybe Rambis wanted a veteran who was a better shooter behind Flynn.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jul 14, 2010 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions
He said he'd move Jefferson
It took a while, but he did it.
I can predict the future using Norm Van Lier's crystal balls.
"Sam has a tendency to denigrate reports coming from any reporter who didn’t also cover the day Naismith first put up the peach baskets." - snley
by NBA Observer on Jul 14, 2010 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Operations has done a helluva job.
They did a lot more house cleaning and upgrading than I thought they could.
I’m optimistic about what they have put together.
"You don't have the talent, but you can work harder than everyone else."
by WillistonCoyote on Jul 14, 2010 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions
He saved tremendous amounts of money
If you’re going to have a losing team (and we will), it’s best if you aren’t paying a ridiculous amount for that record. 3.5 million per win isn’t going to win any future jobs, but if you can get it under 2 million per win you can think about maybe someday in the future making a profit
by midlife crisis on Jul 14, 2010 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions
John Hollinger
Ridnour agrees to sign with Timberwolves (four years, $16 million)
Minnesota’s bizarre rotating point guard experiment continues with the announcement of a four-year, $16 million deal for Luke Ridnour. The money isn’t a huge problem. And although the term is a little excessive considering he’ll turn 30 years old in February, that’s not my biggest issue, either.
The real problem is that it’s a repeat of the same mistake.
A year ago, the Wolves signed Ramon Sessions and tried to cram his pick-and-roll skills into Kurt Rambis’ triangle system; the two went together like peanut butter and salami. Now, Minnesota is trying again with another Milwaukee ex-pat, Ridnour, even though he, like Sessions, is a pick-and-roll guy with a limited perimeter arsenal. There’s a reason the Lakers didn’t go after these players — they’re bad fits for the system Rambis wants to play.
Two factors make it worse. First, Ridnour is too old to be of much use to the Wolves’ rebuilding project, making him a highly questionable choice here. Second, he has virtually no chance of repeating last season’s performance. Those who are familiar with the Fluke Rule will note that Ridnour’s season was a fluke with a capital ‘F’; his dramatic spike in two-point shooting percentage at age 28 has little chance of carrying over to next season.
One presumes that Minnesota will trade Sesssions to Charlotte for Erick Dampier’s nonguaranteed deal, which would be fantastic for the Bobcats. Charlotte needs a point guard and could do a lot worse than Sessions — he’ll be a much better fit with that squad than he would be in Minnesota.
All in all, however, it looks like another head-scratching day in the Land o’ Lakes.
Okay, have you ever had a peanut butter & salami sandwich?
Absolutely sensational…
I looked ahead to the open road, thought about the people and what they know, and wrote a book called "People Don't Know Nothin!"
Pretty sure it's my Dad's favorite
right after his beloved peanut butter and onion special.
Peanut butter & bacon is sensational
especially with mayonnaise
Suppose this is as good a place as any
Here’s the spider graph comparing Sessions and Ridnour:
They both played nearly identical minutes last year, with Ridnour have a career year shooting wise and Sessions a somewhat down year. What I find most interesting/telling is the disparities between three point shooting and FTAs. Sessions is clearly better at getting to the line, whereas Ridnour is clearly a better long distance threat. Otherwise they are just about identical in terms of how many shots they’ll take and how often they’ll make them, how many assists they will give you, etc etc.
As has been said over and over, this move to me is about fit more than anything else. Signing Ridnour is as telling about what Rambis wants to do as anything else – stretch the floor with perimeter shooters to open up space in the middle for guys to cut to the hoop.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
by biggity2bit on Jul 14, 2010 1:33 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I should note
vis a vis Hollinger that Sessions is no sweet strokin’ shooter himself. The difference between the two, I would imagine in the Wolves’ eyes, is that Ridnour can occasionally hit the three, whereas Sessions is more Mike Miller without the shooting ability (won’t shoot ‘em). Also makes me wonder if there’s inside info about Sessions here. I remember that after the season he spent time with Rambis to work on his shooting and that Rambis wanted him to develop a three point shot over the summer. Perhaps this hasn’t happened? Or perhaps Sessions requested a trade very very quietly? Either way, I’m OK with it.
And FWIW, I think the Wolves keep Jonny when Rubio comes over. Too valuable as depth and starting insurance should El Maestro get hurt.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
And offers the most dynamics
Jonny can be a great change of pace guard opposite of Rubio. Like how the Mavs set a standard with Kidd, then suddenly come straight at you with Barea and Roddy
is there a spider graph for defensive prowess?
maybe that has something to do with it? he must just be a little better than sessions in that area as he is 4" taller…and actually shows effort…
This is just silly.
I think this is the first time in history one man managed to destroy an entire city by himself. Even the Enola Gay had a flight crew.
by Auswolf on Jul 14, 2010 1:42 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
And here's a Spirograph
of Corey Brewer’s on-court defensive movements during an opponent’s typical 24-second possession:
by PoorDick on Jul 14, 2010 1:43 PM CDT reply actions 8 recs
Man!
I was just working on that one and you beat me to it! Oh wait, nevermind, I was working on Hollins’ playing style – looks remarkably similar.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
No problem
I don’t take them too seriously myself – they are useful for (potentially) highlighting one or two key differences between two players more than anything else, like 3 point shooting versus FTAs. Having said that, the spirograph representation of Brewer’s defensive movements is just as informative.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
POTD!
Post of the Day. Off to eBay to find an old Spirograph kit. Not only beautiful work there PD, but the aesthetics capture perfectly the representation.
"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please."
Mark Twain
People
with waay too much time on their hands. Purtty tho
Breaking down cognitive dissonance and group think since gasoline was cheap.
Curious statement,
coming from someone with several hundred comments here over the past few days.
by PoorDick on Jul 14, 2010 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions 6 recs
To be fair
Most of those comments say exactly the same thing, which cuts down on the time required to post them.
by dropstep on Jul 14, 2010 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
You can't make a better argument
On a starvation diet.
Could you possibly compare
Brewer’s defensive movements and Jonny’s dribbling on a single possession in Spirograph form?
If you do, never, ever print it
Not enough ink in the world.
It's not that I'm anti spirograph
I just didn’t want to post how it turned out…
Rudy Gay: Feeding his family since 7/1/10
Al Jefferson
The Black Hole. Brilliant work there, Mplax.
"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please."
Mark Twain
Hahaha; Man, you just made my day again.
Also would like to note even though this is hilarious .. I enjoyed the spider diagram. Brings in that old lazy right brain half!
by Wim (Belgium) on Jul 15, 2010 4:21 AM CDT up reply actions
So...
We’re trading away a 23-year old PG for a 29-year old PG who’s due to have a big let down from last season, isn’t a good shooter, and will be locked up for 4 years.
Wow. Truly do not understand the logic at all. Ridnour’s mentoring skills better be unbelivable.
Session was signed to flip anyways...
And now he’s getting flipped. He never fit, we have a deal in place, and Ridnour’s a fine replacement. Is it just that simple?
3-way deal
with Portland sending a big from Charlotte to Portland and Rudy Fernandez our way would be ideal.
Well, that's what I was wondering
Also, Houston now needs a backup PG
Full disclosure
I’m a Knicks fan. I would like to ask politely what David Kahn and the Timberwolves organization are doing? Do you fans have any idea? Rubio/Flynn last year. Session 4 years, $16M and now Ridnour $16M.
Why does he have this infatuation with point guards?
I heard the Knicks...
were talking about bringing Isaiah back?
You should be so lucky to have our problems.
by DougW on Jul 14, 2010 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Haha
That’s definitely not going to happen. He ran our franchise into financial ruin. Donnie Walsh had to undo all the damage that caused. I hope Isiah rots in hell.
I’m just trying to figure out why Kahn is gobbling up so many PGs? Just confused, that’s all.
Well for starters
Rubio isn’t here. So there goes one.
Secondly, I think its fairly obvious that Sessions, Ridnour, and Flynn won’t all be here this year. Sessions will be traded.
Next year, either Ridnour or Flynn will be traded. It isn’t that hard to see what he’s doing…at least we didn’t overpay Amare….
Again, I’m not trying to make this a Knicks Wolves war. Just wanted to know what the strategy was and I figured the best people to ask were the fans who follow the team.
by gujuknick on Jul 14, 2010 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Fair enough
I guess I’m just on edge. It gets really old, as I’m sure you can believe.
as others noted below
thanks for politely asking this question. We sometimes feel under attack here and sometimes respond to even friendly inquiries with nips and snarls.
This is where we all do the
NWO Wolfpack hand sign
by NorthernLights666 on Jul 14, 2010 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Rec'd
Because more people should be like this.
Rudy Gay: Feeding his family since 7/1/10
Yah, this didn't sound nearly disingenuous enough
to be any of our regular Knicks trolls ;)
But bbeeck does summarize it fairly well. These are all moving pieces in my mind. Somehow, our PG acquisitions have gotten the most press (because Rubio is the biggest name/because of the 4PG-draft quips last year?), but we certainly don’t have any more of them than your typical NBA team.
I looked ahead to the open road, thought about the people and what they know, and wrote a book called "People Don't Know Nothin!"
Zeke
ran my beloved CBA into the ground also (the city I’m from had a team for 20 years). I enjoy watching him fail in a sick way. I’m sorry he had to take you guys down in the process.
Illinois: My governor is a bigger crook than your governor
Read this
http://www.canishoopus.com/2010/7/13/1568188/big-al-and-more#storyjump
Its a very good synopsis. And please don’t listen to the tired national headlines about Kahn having no clue. Anyone with half a brain can figure this out.
Interesting
I didn’t know the approach he was trying to take. This is a well done write up.
for this move
sessions is on the way out.
that leaves two point guards on the roster this year.
As for next I year, I imagine one gets traded. Our GM appears to have no hesitation when it comes to trades.
Sessions is rumored to
be on the way out. Ridnour and Sessions are, given differences in opinion, more or less a wash. So if Sessions can be traded for something of value, then why not?
Flynn was insurance to Rubio (they didn’t think Curry could play PG, boy how wrong they were). At the time it was confusing. But in retrospect, the idea behind it was brilliant (once again, the idea. The actualy delivery was a bit questionable). He recognized the difficulty with getting Rubio over here when he dropped below the top 3.
Also, way to be. Most people would just read something and educate themselves with something that is blatantly false and then come here and make a stupid comment about Kahn and then leave. I appreciate the come here and “politely” inquire about the approach. A lot more educational than uninformed rants.
Rudy Gay: Feeding his family since 7/1/10
We still need a Point Guard
A real one.
"You don't have the talent, but you can work harder than everyone else."
by WillistonCoyote on Jul 14, 2010 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions
I like the deal
Wolves could use a Vet, particularly at PG. Ridnour is an upgrade over Sessions, though not a huge one.
I think the Wolves can still work a deal to get Sessions off of the books. Clearly, the Khan/Rambis are showing no confidance in Sessions and not much in Flynn. That’s the point that should be taken here.
by TimberwolvesTerritory on Jul 14, 2010 1:56 PM CDT reply actions
Oh…and I think all of this action is just a precursor to something larger.
by TimberwolvesTerritory on Jul 14, 2010 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions
An overpaid, lazy, fat man.
"You don't have the talent, but you can work harder than everyone else."
by WillistonCoyote on Jul 14, 2010 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Ridnour's contract
I know this isn’t how contracts are normally written but I hope Kahn thinks a little outside the box and pays Ridnour something like $7 million of that contract this year. The Wolves have the cap space and that way the contract won’t bog them down the last 2 years when they are hopefully turning things around.
That has to be what he's thinking
Granger, Iggy, maybe Josh Smith..there could be a lot out there.
They still would have a ton of salary cap space to absord a couple of contracts. I just hope he is thinking salary cap not only this year but the next couple of years when they’ll hopefully actually have a team to build around.
Good points
especially in the aftermath of the new CBA. I’m not sure how much of the contracts in force would affect the cap, but if the owners are successful, it will make these longer 30-something million dollar deals for 30-something players look even more ridiculous.
Wow! Hey CJ Watson is still unsigned. Maybe you need to pursue him too?
The Twolves front office is more entertaining then the product they put on the floor. Great Job Kahn!
Set a record by getting banned for the 8th time!
After rehab I saw the light and promise to be kinder and gentler!
Probation is a very slippery slope!
Ekpe
Ud’oh!
I looked ahead to the open road, thought about the people and what they know, and wrote a book called "People Don't Know Nothin!"
Isn't it about time for
that 9th ban? Or maybe you should seek some counseling for the attention your Mother didn’t give to you?
by NorthernLights666 on Jul 14, 2010 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Argh
That was supposed to be a reply to Bahlgren1 above. I actually think the Ridnour move could be a good one, especially if we trade Sessions for more than cap space/2nd round pick.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Jul 14, 2010 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions
It seems like the most obvious
“Wait for the other shoe to drop” situation. How can anyone get up in arms about this?
I looked ahead to the open road, thought about the people and what they know, and wrote a book called "People Don't Know Nothin!"
My only question
Is why 4 years? 4 million per year isn’t bad for a decent vet, but I don’t understand why we’re keeping him on our books for so long. Especially since he’s gonna be in his mid-30’s by the end of the deal. Hopefully there are some team options or stipulations in the contract that give the FO some control.
Yes, yes it is
and team options are my hope as well.
I looked ahead to the open road, thought about the people and what they know, and wrote a book called "People Don't Know Nothin!"
This one is a yawner
Half dozen of one; half dozen of the other.
Incidentally, no vet can teach Flynn not to throw the ball away, dribble into traps by taller defender, throwing up ill-advised 3s, and attacking the rim thinking your 7 feet tall only to get swatted.
“Free your mind, Johnny” (as adapted by The Matrix). Want to make sure we’re legit on attributions.
Breaking down cognitive dissonance and group think since gasoline was cheap.
by Flagrant on Jul 14, 2010 2:14 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
man, you nailed his game in one short sentence !!
"You don't have the talent, but you can work harder than everyone else."
by WillistonCoyote on Jul 14, 2010 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions
With all due respect.....
A coupla questions:
(1) Why play a system that seems to go counter to most of your players’ strengths- and more importantly, why continue to bring in a player like Luke who is a standard pick&roll PG , like Flynn & Sessions are/were?
(2) Why draft only one position in 2 consecutive years- & then trade for more players (Webster), who play that same position….in BOTH years?
(3)Why trade your best player to a direct rival?
(4)Why realistically are you putting all eggs in the Rubio basket, assuming that he’ll play for you AND that he’ll thrive in the NBA. Its almost becoming a necessity that he now does both.
Finally, a mea culpa.
As a Cuse fan I’ve come on this board before & vented my frustration at Kahn’s drafting of Wesley this year, & your continued under-appreciation (IMO) of Flynn. It wasn’t the most productive way to approach things, & as long as those guys especially are playing for Minny, I figured its best to change my approach
So respectfully, Wolves fans…….what do you guys think is happening here & at what point will you mutiny against this Capt. Ahab aka GM Kahn?
Thank you.
I'll take a crack at this
1. We have no idea what the system is because they tanked last year. So who knows who fits.
2. Webster may play SG rather than SF. Last year’s draft yielded only one PG who is currently on roster.
3. We won 15 games. The Nets are our only rival, for worst team in the league. Big Al deal gives wolves draft picks and cap space, the ability to be flexible into the future.
4. Because to win an NBA title a team needs a transformational player. Kahn believes Rubio could be that player and that no one else on the roster has a chance to be that player. In that situation you plan around what you have, but maintain flexibility to attempt to acquire that transformational player via trade (FA is a joke in MN).
no rebellion yet. Maybe at this year’s trade deadline.
To Number 1
The Triangle is massively overstated as our system. Kahn has actually said that he is annoyed when we are referred to as a Triangle Team rather than an Uptempo Team. We are moving towards the latter. The Triangle was a brief stop used to teach.
Rudy Gay: Feeding his family since 7/1/10
Kahn might say this
but the reality is this is what Rambis uses as his foundational offense. We would not have lusted after Darko so much if the triangle wasn’t going to be a key part of our plans moving forward.
by Rascal Flatts on Jul 14, 2010 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Based on his track record.....
..how much faith do you fans have in Kahn being correct about Rubio?
So far, and granted its a small sample, he hasn’t engendered alot of confidence from anyone. Whenever multiple FO moves are greeted with universal bewilderment, at some point you have to wonder if they know WTF they’re doing? I mean, is he the ONLY one who sees the big picture here, & we’re all wrong?
The onus is now on Rubio to be a "transformational " player, since all these moves are undertaken with that hope in mind. However, contrast that w/ the approach that OKC has taken. First, they confirmed that Durant was such an NBA talent, BEFORE conjuring up the pieces to fit him. Other than Larry Bird who was drafted as a Junior in college, I can’t remember another player having a team constructed in his absence. Red Auerbach saw that Bird was a “can’t miss” NBA player, & acted accordingly.
Has anyone had indications that Kahn is another Red Auerbach? Sheesh.
by VerbalKint on Jul 14, 2010 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
David Robinson was drafted in 87
And didn’t play in the NBA until 89. So there’s him too.
We need a little bit of time to see if the moves will pan out. They may have been “greeted with universal bewilderment” by people who write about the NBA, and are not actually employed in the league, but more often than not these writers are very lazy and badly misinformed
by Madsen's 3-Point Barrage on Jul 14, 2010 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Was there a lockout to contend with then?
by TheMorningAfter on Jul 14, 2010 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions
It could have been longer than 2 years
except Naval vessels aren’t exactly designed to accommodate 7 footers, especially submarines.
Having your cake and eating it too
Do you want to claim that Flynn is good or Kahn’s draft record is bad? Because our issue with Flynn was that he was drafted too high, but you always seem to get angry at us for saying that.
Rudy Gay: Feeding his family since 7/1/10
I don't need to claim that Flynn is "good"-
…thats a fact. The question is, has he been given the best opportunity to show it, such that a question like yours wouldn’t be necessary. My gripe is he hasn’t been put into the best situation that’ll insure his best performance & greatest success.
Thats on Kahn & his staff, including Rambis.
The Flynn you saw last year was a rookie NBA PG adjusting to the league, while expected to learn the complicated triangle offense. If he wanted a player to change his playing style, the very style that got him in the league in the first place, then he should’ve drafted another kind of PG.
I say Flynn would’ve propered and flourished FASTER, if he was allowed to play his game from the beginning. The progression shown by Curry, Jennings, Evans, & other PG’s would’ve been more evident even for Jonny, if he’d played in another system. Jonny has only scratched the surface, & my belief is that he’ll never get a fair chance to prove that, if he’s playing in Minny.
Thats on Kahn & his baffling choices- not only on Flynn.
Re: Flynn
I copied and pasted this from “Flagrant”, above.
Here’s how he describes Jonny’s game. I can’t
disagree with him. It’s exactly how I saw it, too:
“Incidentally, no vet can teach Flynn not to throw the ball away, dribble into traps by taller defender, throwing up ill-advised 3s, and attacking the rim thinking your 7 feet tall only to get swatted.”
I’ll take a chance on Rubio. He doesn’t have to be ‘transformational’. Those
kinds of pieces are hard to acquire. All he needs to do is to get the ball to
where we need it most, and who can deny he’s a great distributor? He is.
What happens to Jonny, I don’t know. But know this; even if Rubio is not
‘transformational’, like say a Kobe, he’s a definite upgrade.
"You don't have the talent, but you can work harder than everyone else."
by WillistonCoyote on Jul 14, 2010 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions
And heres Exhibit A for my earlier rants. ^^^
You quote a section from “Flagrant” that describes what exacxtly? A young rookie PG, who’s being asked to run one of the most complicated offenses in basketball. Jordan, Pippen, Kobe, Shaq…they ALL hated the triangle offense, because its counter to the way they learned to play! Even a vet like Gary Payton wasn’t happy playing that offense when he joined the Lakers. Yet you want a rookie to come in and NOT…“throw the ball away, dribble into traps by taller defenders,throwing up ill-advised threes, and attack the rim” foolishly? And you want this to all take place, ummmm… yesterday??? Really?
I guess thats not too much to ask from any player huh, especially a rookie PG! (Dripping Sarcasm)!
Moreover, you expect Rubio to be an immediate upgrade, also…yesterday! The guy who’s never set foot in the NBA & decided to stay home because he wasn’t “ready” to play in Minny- but thats your savior?? Riiiight.
Btw- to mention Kobe & Rubio in the same breath as examples of “transformational” players, is the height of idiocy…IMHO.
Verbal, you haven't been a Wolves fan
It’s very difficult to sit through a 15 win year with your team, and there is going to be a lot of complaining. Especially after several bad years prior. Jonny got his share, fair or not.
But he also got to play over 2300 minutes last year, and started every game. He probably isn’t going play any less this year, so it isn’t like he doesn’t have the chance to impress.
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on Jul 14, 2010 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions
On 3 and 4
3) Sending Al to a decent squad (yah, a divisional opponent) is Kahn doing right by players, something he has consistently done, and something I appreciate. While I wish him the best, and think he will be a positive addition in Utah, I don’t think he’s going to be haunting our nightmares for years to come.
4) To me, while it looks like we’re all-in on Rubio, I don’t think we’ve done things that are irreparable if he were to never be a part of them. We’ve built a stable of youth and potential, all on moderate contracts, that leans towards a speedy, playmaking style. We have decent PGs as is, and are accumulating more and more draft picks. If we learn down the road that there’s no Rubio, we’ll be alright (aside from my personal heartbreak). Maybe that’ll be the time to overpay for the right person to step in and anchor the team — something that would be a sore mistake right now.
A question for you re: “continued under-appreciation (IMO) of Flynn.” As a fan of his for more time than most of us, where do you see his potential? I don’t see him as a starting PG, personally, but I definitely see him as a fantastic 6th man/spark plug. Perhaps that’s underappreciating to you (though it will remain my opinion, until I see otherwise), or perhaps I’m not the cause of your frustration (if it’s this, I think you’d be surprised at how many people here have pretty high hopes for Jonny in the same vein).
Lastly, I appreciate your new approach. A newer, friendlier Keyser Soze…
I looked ahead to the open road, thought about the people and what they know, and wrote a book called "People Don't Know Nothin!"
Rats
I didn’t catch your Usual Suspects comment before I gave my own.
Illinois: My governor is a bigger crook than your governor
I used to be in a barbershop quarter in Skokie, Illinois.
I looked ahead to the open road, thought about the people and what they know, and wrote a book called "People Don't Know Nothin!"
I figured its best to change my approach
Thus using the name VerbalKint rather than Kaiser Soze. :)
Illinois: My governor is a bigger crook than your governor
Yes, one & the same..
but BOTH getting results in their own way! :)
My “under-appreciation of Flynn” comment is a mixture of again, frustration, but also the circumstances that existed last season.
Logic dictates that the PG position in the NBA is maybe the toughest to learn for a young player. Consequently, when evaluating talent, when did Kahn conclude that Flynn, a dynamic pick&roll PG, would be a fit for his new triangle-offense-inspired HC? Isn’t it a given that you put your players in best position to win games, & in systems that best ACCENTUATE their talents?
I watched Jonny at Cuse & at times he was unstoppable. As a freshman, some of the same grievances that you guys expressed last year could be heard from Cuse fans. By his 2nd year he was the man in charge & the decision-making improved tremendously, as wellas the jumper! Things took off from there. I get miffed when I read how he isn’t Curry, or Jennngs, or Collison- and yet rarely will someone add that THOSE guys didn’t have to learn a new system. They went out & learned the NBA game, but not a new system. And despite all that, by most measures, Jonny had a good rookie year. Am I expecting too much perspective here?
Finally, I believe Jonny is an NBA starter, think a poor man’s Chris Paul- but this will be the season that will determine if it’ll happen in Minny.
Anyway, I’ve got work to do…….. have to go kill many men in the harbor! Later.
I would say the 1 and 5
are definitely the hardest as the 1 has lots of offensive responsibilities and the 5 has (should have) defensive responsibilities.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jul 14, 2010 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions
I think
you missed many very extensive discussions about how and why Jonny is performing so poorly with us. All of those points were covered ad nauseum. You also seem to overestimate our hatred for Jonny…
Once again, we were disappointed with where he was drafted and you seem to like to chime in on how Kahn has a terrible draft record… well… Jonny has been about 70% of his draft record thus far.
Rudy Gay: Feeding his family since 7/1/10
I can appreciate your feelings on Flynn
and the uncomfortable role he was put in this last year.
However, I think everyone would do well to understand that Rambis was specifically taking him out of his comfort zones in order to mold him into a more well-rounded PG. When I say I don’t see him as a starting PG, it has little to do with his struggles running a triangle offense last year, and more to do with his general talents.
You say poor man’s Chris Paul. Well, I can be on board with that, but I think that what he primarily lacks in comparison is the extraordinary vision, which to me is a key for a starting PG. (I should also disclose that when I say starting PG, I’m referring to a contender’s starting PG – there are plenty of teams starting guys at or around Jonny’s talent level).
Lastly, I, for one, have completely stayed away from comparisons to other rookie PGs you mentioned, as I think they were absolutely put in better situations to succeed.
I looked ahead to the open road, thought about the people and what they know, and wrote a book called "People Don't Know Nothin!"
Could be this simple
Kahn wants an up-tempo team (triangle not part of Kahn’s plan). Kahn drafted Flynn a crazy athletic up-tempo PG.
Then Rambis is hired. Rambis accepts demand that team be up-tempo, but roster is incapable of really competing. Can play D. Almost no shooting range. Unable to create their own shot (black hole exempted). Flynn and others are given a small helping of the triangle (basically a high-school motion offense) as a learning tool to keep them involved and working as a team. Last year sucks, but the crappy players are moved off the roster and we spend the last couple weeks getting things in place so that we have a roster capable of competing so long as they actually function as a team. Flynn gets a chance to show his stuff this year with a couple thousand minutes experience knowing what it is likely to be completely over-matched. This year will likely be much better whether or not the wins come.
I love your tag line.
"You don't have the talent, but you can work harder than everyone else."
by WillistonCoyote on Jul 14, 2010 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions
sigh...
Sometimes, I feel like Kahn’s a circus juggler. Right now he has a couple flaming bowling pins a few katanas tossed in the air, and we’re all watching to see if he completes the trick, or if he impales/incinerates himself.
Not a fan of Sessions for Ridnour, though. Maybe if they get a nice piece for Sessions, but I think he’s the better player. The contracts are small beer, I guess, but still. When’s the messing around with the window dressing going to end?
No Ramon to Charlotte...
They just signed Shaun Livingston. I’ll bet (and the ESPN folks agree) that that means Sessions isn’t headed to the Bobcats, too.
I do see the argument for a point guard who can shoot from the outside, hence Ridnour over Sessions, but in a fair number of Wolves games I saw last year, Sessions was the only player who played like he cared and tried hard (and, for that matter, who even had a clue how to make things happen on offense). I like him and his effort better than Flynn’s, so trading him to replace him with an older not particularly interesting player in Ridnour doesn’t really do much for me.
A lot of teams have 3 PGs
..and someone’s PG is bound to go down injured. So, goodbye Ramon now or later. Really, most we get is a 2nd round pick. It’s about not having his salary at this point.
We may need another big (a veteran) if Pek doesn’t sign. Don’t like Hollins/Stiesma as the backups to Darko. Darko may get his 30+ minutes, no problem. We could go small ball with Love at C at times, I guess.
Yeah, Cousins would have solved this dilemma, but no point re-hashing (oops, I just did.)
I like how the article says that Kahn is
changing directions on the franchise’s future at PG. He’s swapping out the freaking backup for a roughly equivalent player; not a huge move here.
But,
my question is… Wwhy are we signing him for 4 years…? when Rubio is coming next year and flynn coming off bench.
Rubio probably isn’t coming over for two years… Ridnour’s a comparable player to Sessions, but the belief is he fits our system better and may provide veteran leadership… even if the contract is a little longer than ideal, it’s reasonable $$/should be a movable asset….
(ie- see all the arguments above).
Yeah...
…The national guys like to overdramatize things a tad, especially when it concerns David Kahn.
i don't know
i think you should question a man who puts together a team where it’s not clear the presumed starting 5 would beat the presumed second line in a 7 game series.
by voiceofharlanspast on Jul 14, 2010 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm probably in the minority here, but I really like this move
We know Sessions is getting moved anyway, and between the two, Ridnour is both the better fit and the more experienced player. He can be a mentor (and a mentor who can play significant minutes….unlike Cardinal….) where Sessions could not, which will help stabilize not just the point guard position, but the team as a whole
I think this perfectly fits Kahn’s description of a player who can provide immediate veteran leadership without sacrificing any long term goals.
As critical as I am of Kahn
I do not believe he is just signing Ridnour on a flier. I’ve come to the conclusion that he has a deal in place for Sessions that he likes, and that’s why he went after Ridnour hard.
I don’t know what that deal is, but I don’t think he’s just scouting around.
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on Jul 14, 2010 5:45 PM CDT reply actions
Spurs fan here though I live in southern California (don’t ask)
As an outsider I am in the minority here but I like what the Wolves are doing. First their front court is very talented in my opinion. I am a little biassed here being that I’ve been watching Kevin Love since he was in high school but I think he is vastly underrated and there didn’t seem a way where he and Jefferson could succesfully coexist-they don’t compliment each other at all.
On the other hand Beasley as your 3rd or 4th big (assuming Pek is what he’s made out to be) is perfect. He has a unique skill set for a big and if you’re not depending on him for starter like contributions then everything he gives you is gravy; espeically since he is such a change of pace from the other front court players on the Wolves. Look no further than how impactful Lamar Odom is with the Lakers to see how valued a fluid big with a jump shot and handles can be. Bench players hardly ever lose games for you but they can win a handful of games through out the course of the regular season and beyond. And on top of that Kurt Rambis is just the type of coach that I’d want to have working with Beasley.
Regarding Luke Ridnour; I have to assume a trade is in the works and if that is the case I like the signing. Having redundant parts never maximize your teams talents (see Dallas Mavs) and Luke is a good compliment to Flynn or Sessions. Where I disagree with most Wolves’ fans is that Sessions should be the one traded. Flynn to me is not and never will be a starting point guard but given his popularity, age and potential (much of it overhyped) you can easily land starter talent in return for him.
Last (sorry this is so long, guys) I really like the drafting of Wes Johnson over Cousins. I think the Wolves front court is just fine. Lots of talent and lots of diverse talent. Drafing Cousins would have left a big hole at the wing position and on top of that Wes is a mature and more coachable player. His summer league play hasn’t been great but it is unlikely to carry over to the regular season. A couple of years ago Marco Belineli (sp?) exploded in the Summer League for 40 something points. Where is he now? On the other hand George Hills rookie year summer league go was terrible. He shot something like 18% and was a turnover machine but I think he turned out just fine :)
Best of luck this season.
"It's Manuway or the Highway" - tlo
Manu* Thanks for the KhanKudos
I agree with you, and add that I’ve been a true fan of the Wolves since inception, and I’ve never seen a line-up that promises to be as well-rounded athleticism/ dynamics on BOTH sides of the court in MN. I’m very much looking forward to this season & hope a couple of the new players take off like we need them to! The trades aren’t over yet, but I see the athletic & defensive trend- almost across the board.
Just looking at our bench last year versus this year… wow. Things are moving the right direction… FINALLY a plan.
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