Wolves Updates 7/15
by SG on Jul 15, 2010 1:48 AM CDT
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PrintKahn and Webber talk Darko, Wolves lose to Cousins and Kings in summer league, Sessions trade rumors and more
From NBA.com: Chris Webber talks to David Kahn about Darko during last night's summer league game (VIDEO)
From Ray Richardson/Pioneer Press:
Wolves president of basketball operations David Kahn declined to confirm or deny reports that Ridnour has a deal in place, believed to be a four-year package worth $16 million.
"We're talking, but there's no contract as we speak," Kahn said Wednesday.
From Jon Krawczynski/AP Sports:
Sessions' agent told The Associated Press on Wednesday that he has heard about discussions with several teams, but a deal has yet to be completed. Sessions averaged 8.2 points and 3.1 assists last year for the 15-win Wolves as the backup to Flynn.
Before Ridnour was brought into the mix, 25-year-old Ryan Hollins was the oldest player on the Timberwolves, who added 21-year-old Michael Beasley in a trade with Miami on Tuesday. Beasley has dealt with several issues off the court, but Kahn said he thinks the former No. 2 overall pick is maturing.
"I think experience really matters, of course, I would never discount that," Kahn said Tuesday night after trading Jefferson. "I think that we have though in the young kids we have on the team, everybody I think is a good person.
"And we talked last night about some of Michael's issues that he had a year ago, but all indications are that Michael is growing. I'm not saying grown, but growing. I'd love to have a couple veterans on the team, there's no question about it."
From Tom Withers twitter account:
Cavs have interest in Minnesota point guard Ramon Sessions. T-Wolves have to move him after signing Luke Ridnour. Stay tuned.
From Alan Hahn/Newsday:
The Minnesota Timberwolves continue to cling to Ricky Rubio , yet they've also been filling his position by adding point guards to the roster. According to reports, the team last night was on the verge of signing free agent Luke Ridnour , which immediately caught the attention of the Knicks , who have coveted Rubio, the 19-year-old Spanish star, since the 2009 draft.
A person with knowledge of the situation said the Knicks recently have made contact with the Timberwolves to check on Rubio's availability but got nowhere. When asked by Newsday if Rubio was still off limits, Wolves president David Kahn replied, "Yes."
From Jerry Zgoda/Star Tribune:
Kahn can sign Ridnour to a four-year, $16 million contract to which his agent says he has agreed, or just about any of the other dwindling number of free agents left out there in an unprecedented summer of NBA free agency.
But now Kahn also has millions and millions in salary-cap cushion, two extra first-round picks and young players such as Brewer, Flynn, Johnson and Love to offer should a big-moneyed player -- maybe even a young, blooming superstar -- signed for the coming seasons arrive on the market from a franchise looking to slash costs.
Philadelphia's Andre Iguodala or Houston's Kevin Martin?
Think bigger than that.
Denver's Carmelo Anthony?
OK, maybe not that big ...
How about, say, Atlanta forward Josh Smith or Indiana forward Danny Granger, a pair of potential perennial All-Star players given the right time and place?
NBA.com recap and boxscore for last night's loss to Sacramento
From Jerry Zgoda/Star Tribune: First impressions: Kings 79, Wolves 78
From Jason Jones/Sacramento Bee:
Cousins had a message for Minnesota's summer league coach Reggie Theus at halftime.
"He was like 'We got into his head,'" Cousins said. "I was like thank you coach, I'm going to kill you this half. And after the game I was like told you I was going to kill you this half. That's all that was."
Cousins did by hitting the game winning shot on a jump hook with 2.8 seconds left in the game for a 79-78 win.
As Theus exited the gym, Cousins told him "good game" showing he knows how to leave the emotions of a game on the floor.
From Myles at A Wolf Among Wolves: The Reverse Fix
From Kelly Dwyer/Ball Don't Lie:
And the Timberwolves? Analysis? They're a mess. They got Kosta Koufos(notes) in the deal, and he might be worth taking a look at, but they've completely wasted all the assets they've had come through Minnesota over the last few years. Al Jefferson and Kevin Love couldn't play together, but this was the best deal possible? And this is when you make the deal? For a trade exception and picks? Such a waste.
From Jeff Kaplan/ESPN:
The organizationally hyped Erick Dampier trade chip failed to deliver the home run. Let's not pretend that a big swing for the 6-foot-10 Jefferson, a double-double machine over the past four seasons, failed to materialize because the Mavs were scared off by the $42 million left on Jefferson's three-year contract.
But it did become unpalatable when combined with the Minnesota Timberwolves' refusal to budge on Cuban's demands to eat bad contracts the Mavs acquired in past trades, a total of $15.8 million due to bench warmers Matt Carroll and DeShawn Stevenson.
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It took Cousins a last second shot
to beat a team full of d d leaguers and we have people here acting like he is going to be the next shaq. get off of his dick people.
Webber's right
Him and Darko don’t belong in the same sentence right now.
Actively looking for red flags since my 5th grade traveling team
He still got owned on the "team direction" question though
They both ended up looking stupid in the end
mabye they did
but one is a GM and one isn’t
Phil Jackson, after treatment for a kidney stone "When the anesthesiologist leaned over me, he said "We named your kidney stone Kobe because it's not passing."
I disagree. I think the purpose in Kahn’s attempted example was that players sometimes need certain situations before they truly grow and develop. Webber even affirmed this when he said “all players need a GM/coach that believes in them.” He was not claiming Darko is Webbers level of talent, but just that he needed a good situation like Webber did in SacTown.
I think Webber was inappropriate with his response. Only thing they have in common other than passing is that they were both hyped young big men that have yet to reach their promise. Webber never will, Darko still has time.
Webber was a little hypersensitive there...
probably because Kahn was dredging up bad memories of C-Webb’s early seasons. He was miserable until Sacramento and probably wants to block that out of his memory.
by Andy G on Jul 15, 2010 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Webber never reached his promise?
As what? Greatest player of all time? For awhile, he, KG and Duncan were neck and neck for best PF in the league titles.
Well....two of those three have titles.
And one had his career cut short by persistent injuries…
I looked ahead to the open road, thought about the people and what they know, and wrote a book called "People Don't Know Nothin!"
Chris Webber's promise
That’s pretty harsh, the 01-02 Kings gave the Lakers more than any team in their three-peat, including the Spurs. They were up 3-2 even with Horry’s shot and got shived buy the refs in Game 6 at home. Webber was good for 20-10 in those playoffs.
I mean it’s not like Grant Hill only getting out of the first round this year or Melo only doing that once.
Glenn Robinson, there’s a supposed true star that ended up as a third banana. Or Yao Ming and his 75 injuries.
by charlie_bitmay on Jul 15, 2010 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions
It was bad...
Anytime you call Darko Milicic “Manna from Heaven” or say that he’s the best passing big man you’ve ever seen, comparable to Divac, you are going to invite a lot of ridicule…I realize he had to defend Darko because he just signed him to a deal, but I think he could have done that in a less ridiculous way.
I think Webber pissed him off...
So, he tried to return serve by comparing Darko to Webb/Vlade. And he overreached a bot in praise of Darko. But he had to defend. And it must get annoying to be called a complete idiot on Darko, etc, both there and on a daily basis.
by ChicagoViking on Jul 15, 2010 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions
He did affirm that Vlade would praise Darko’s passing also.
The manna from heaven thing is going to get overblown because the media loves to rip on Kahn, but lets look in context.
kahn is jewish and has made references to that before, so I assume he knows the story. The manna story was that the people were starving/complaining in the desert because they had no food. In the morning small pieces of bread appeared for them to eat. It was a gift that feed the people. It was nothing “special” like a steak, but it was an unexpected and appreciated gift.
In this way, maybe the analogy is not far off. We were starving (Starting Hollins at center?) and the people were complaining. We received a gift that did not look amazing, but feed us.
:)
So will your midrash on the subject
include the people grumbling, Darko coming in like manna, then more grumbling as time passes with the really somewhat bland sustenance of a big slow center who never developed any offensive skills besides passing?
by midlife crisis on Jul 15, 2010 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions
If I want to go on an entire theological tangent, manna was seen as a foreshadowing of Eucharist. Of the greater promise of redemption and fulfillment in the Christocentric sense.
Now, to blaspheme to basketball. kahn’s willingness to take a “bust” in a bad situation and turn it into a happy productive, but limited, player could foreshadow Kahn taking another “bust” and turn them into a happy productive stud. The stud would bring us to the promised land of the playoffs.
Could this be the prophecy of Beasley?
Of course, the people always complain and want something different in their savior and eventually kill most of the prophets and the Christ themselves. hmm, not sure I want to connect that to our fan base too much yet.
I think I need to go to confession now.
(btw, props for using the term Mid-rash)
There is an interesting chapter in Numbers that deals with that scenario.
It has an interesting outcome.
by Krotz the Wall on Jul 15, 2010 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions
That's interesting...
But I still don’t think Kahn needed to try and hype up a 7-year NBA veteran…He should have just said “We know Darko’s still got to prove his worth in this league, but we think this is the right team and the right system for him to do so.” No need to make unnecessary comparisons or allude to ancient stories of Judaism that most listeners won’t understand…
I agree, I just thought a deeper look at the analogy was interesting.
I wish Kahn would have brought up the fact that Darko is the 28-30th highest paid center in the league. His contract is hardly ridiculous.
Good point
He could have rebutted Webber’s obvious skepticism about Darko in terms of the value they are getting for him and how that compares to other middling Centers in the League.
by Rascal Flatts on Jul 15, 2010 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't think I knew where that phrase came from
Thanks. So, if Beaseley fulfils his potential, we should probably call him prime rib from heaven instead?
by aarendsvark on Jul 15, 2010 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions
He was just saying that he fit Rambis....
how Chris got to …well I would pick Jordan is f*(&king retarded!
Gotta say
Kahn represented himself fairly well. Sounded like he at least knew what he was doing and thinking, a moment or two I thought he kind of smacked Webber down a bit even. Just me or did Chris seem a little sulky at the end with that BS, condescending “Good luck?”
by newfrickinshow on Jul 15, 2010 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions
So signing Ridnour an NBA journeyman means we are ready to trade Rubio. Why do people who know nothing about basketball try writing about it.
by Achilles Fang 1 on Jul 15, 2010 2:52 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
Or...
just comment in general. I ask myself this question at least 15 times a day when in reference to the Wolves.
"This town, this night, this crowd
Come on put them up, let me hear it loud"
by Stay classy, Joe. on Jul 15, 2010 3:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Do you think
that Kahn’s voicemail prompt includes something like “Hi, you’ve reached David Kahn, POBO of the Wolves. Please leave your name, number, and a brief message after the beep…and no, Ricky is still not available. Thank You.” I would imagine stuff like this gets quite annoying after awhile, as in anytime Kahn looks at another PG the NY media is going to call:
When asked by Newsday if Rubio was still off limits, Wolves president David Kahn replied, “Yes.”
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
I love that
Somehow the Knicks get the message but Newsday felt they needed to call. Maybe we could trade Rubio to TIME instead, I bet they could really use someone with his skills.
The rest of the league gets it by now, Rubio is the only player on the roster that is off limits. Yet the media won’t shut up about it and keeps acting like Rubio will never come here. But they’re hardly unbiased. It would certainly pad their pockets to have such an electric and exciting player in a bigger market.
Side note: Ekpe Udoh is out 6 months with a wrist injury
Rough….not only is everyone on his case for being drafted so high, but now he doesn’t even have the chance to prove them wrong to start the year
I feel sorry for Golden State fans
They really do have some young talent, but man, they have just been devastated by injuries and weird coaching over the past few years.
by Rascal Flatts on Jul 15, 2010 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Randy Moss
Yeah, it’s one summer league game. But, DMC reminds me of Moss. Teams passed on him because of his “attitude” problems etc… I still remember driving from Vegas to Carson City when the Vikings drafted him. That long drive became a lot better.
The Twolves are trying the slow/steady way. We’ll see. Count me as a convert on taking a gamble to leap forward. That’s why I like the Beasley trade. The upside could be as good or better than DMC and the risk even less.
But, imagine if you will: Rubio, (2011 high pick or Jeff cap room), Beasley, Love, DMC as your starting five next year.
I imagine...
No one would guard us past 18 ft.
by Levance Fields Ate My Lunch on Jul 15, 2010 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions
good point
That SG would have to be a good SG.
by ChicagoViking on Jul 15, 2010 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions
considering none of those players make more than $5 million per
That SG could be.
by midlife crisis on Jul 15, 2010 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions
re: Moss
%True, but then again DMC could go all Demetrius Underwood too.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
Amazingly Poor Comparison. Expected Much better from you
re: Moss %True, but then again DMC could go all Demetrius Underwood too.
Underwood went insane, wrote nonsense about the apocalypse during practice sessions, tried to kill himself multiple times, served stints in the Dallas County Jail for Aggravated Robbery, Assault on Public Servant, and Evading Arrest.
What about DMC’s off the court behavior leads you to make a comparison? The character assassination of this wildly talented (and sometimes hotheaded) 19 year old kid is incredible. Especially from posters who get so wounded every time a national media member criticizes the GM of our 15 win team. Ugly
Summer League is irrelevant unless it validates my opinion
by Son of Gerald Green on Jul 15, 2010 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions
Pretty sure
“%” is the newly minted sarcasm indicator…
I looked ahead to the open road, thought about the people and what they know, and wrote a book called "People Don't Know Nothin!"
Yes
My attempt at levity was missed. I was hoping that even without the ‘%’ designator the outrageousness of it all would come through – Demetrius is a terrible comparison for DMC in almost all ways: he was a super cut workout warrior, he had a bona-fide pre-existing collection of evidence that he might be a poor fit mentally/emotionally for the pressures of being a first round pick, and his college career was quite sub-standard production wise. Oh well. Let me set things straight:
I don’t think DMC is in anyway like Demetrius Underwood. Copacetic?
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
by biggity2bit on Jul 15, 2010 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions
west comp for DMC
is probably Rasheed. A guy who wants to win, isn’t considered a hustle player but oozes talent and is kind of hotheaded. Hotheadedness ocassionally leading to T trouble. Other than position, they play different games, but there are a lot of similarities.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jul 15, 2010 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions
Perfect
And sorry for missing the %. I had no idea until now, totally misread your post. My fault
Summer League is irrelevant unless it validates my opinion
by Son of Gerald Green on Jul 15, 2010 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions
and worse than all that
He was a complete reach, talent wise, at the end of the first round
by midlife crisis on Jul 15, 2010 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Bad comparison
If anybody from this draft class should be compared to Randy Moss, it is Hassan Whiteside. I’m not a big fan of his or anything, but the Moss parallels are there: Moss was an overly cocky player from Marshall who slid in the draft because of questions surrounding his attitude, Whiteside is an overly cocky player from Marshall who slid in the draft because of questions about his attitude. Both entered the draft at the earliest possible opportunity. Both were freakish athletes. Who knows, maybe Dalembert will turn out to be Whiteside’s Cris Carter.
Webber was way too hard on Darko
I know that Darko still has to prove himself, but Webber made it sound like he was worse than SToyko or a MILLION other 7 foot stiffs that have stolen paychecks in the NBA. Darko is just such a hot button because he was the number 2 pick.
And it seems that whipping Kahn seems to be the major sport among NBA talking heads. I don’t think the guy is a genius, but the roster IS better than it was, we have a low payroll, some potential and still have a stockpile of picks. What was the league expecting when we keep falling every lottery chance?
If Cousins is a star yeah Kahn will get blamed for passing, and Curry was definately a mistake but name a Wolves GM with a better track record. We are not talking A list GM’s.
I watched the first half last night and it was nice to see that Lazar can shoot it. If Darko is at least serviceable (which I think he will be) and ONE of the three between Beasily, Johnson and Websters turns into a good player, I think some people will not be so critical.
I think the whole Kahn bashing in the national media comes from one thing only, that it looked as though he picked 3 PG’s for himself in the same draft and passed on Curry. Not the birghtest move passing on Curry, but many GM’s have completed worse moves without so much scorn.
I still think they are a 25 win team, but at least they should be able to score this year which will make them far more entertaining to watch.
Think
we will struggle early in season. Too many new bodies and chemistry considerations. Will be a lot of experimenting with who gets the minutes with whom. Expect more in the second half of the year providing rotations get settled and a player or two steps up.
That was the theory last year too.....
And we actually got worse as the season progressed. Rambis didn’t do a whole lot of experimenting either. He stuck with guys like Sasha despite game after game of ineptitude. His coaching style needs to change as much as the roster did this offseason.
by Rascal Flatts on Jul 15, 2010 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions
He definitely needs to tighten up the rotations, in my opinion
Even if it leaves some favorites on the bench. As things stand (assuming a Sessions for nothing trade), I think you play 9 guys:
Flynn, Ridnour, Webster, Johnson, Brewer, Beasley, Love, Milicic, Pekovic.
It’s tough to go much deeper than that on a regular basis and get the rhythm you need. It means limited time for guys like Ellington and Hayward, but that’s how it goes.
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on Jul 15, 2010 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Agree
And although I think your assessment that Ellington and Hayward get left out in the cold in terms of minutes is correct, I’m certainly hoping that he starts camp with everyone on equal footing. No spoon feeding of minutes to anyone.
by Rascal Flatts on Jul 15, 2010 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions
I think part of the problem with the national media is that they evaluate each Kahn move as if it is the last and final move. Instead, as we do here, they should understand each move in the context of past and subsequent moves to build a team of a certain system. I think a fair criticism of Kahn is that he (along with Rambis) are acquiring players for a particular system rather than obtaining the best players they can and allowing the system to adjust to their talent. That may be a criticism, but both approaches are reasonable, and since Kahn is the GM, he has the right to try his approach. We will know in a couple years if it is effective. The problem with it is that you are often accepting less talent because the talent has to fit the system (i.e. Johnson over Cousins). Of course, after watching Cousins last night, I wonder if he would have fit the system better than Kahn and Rambis thought—but that question is a long way from being resolved.
I don't think it was a system issue
At the time of the draft, Kahn had too many PF’s and C’s (counting Darko and Pek), and no shooters. This appeared to be a classic case of drafting for need.
Sac didn't take Rubio
I read last year that Sac was going to take Rubio if he fell to them. I wonder what our team would look like had they done so. We would have taken Evans. Flynn would have been unnecessary. Some felt Curry could play the 2, so would we have ended up with Evans, Curry, and Ellington. Now this year we pick up DMC, Webster, Beasily, and Darko, assuming we still drafted 4th.
An Evans, Curry, Webster, Beasley/Love, Darko/DMC team would look a lot better than what we have now. This core would be building chemistry now and be waiting for that one final piece. It also would be a team that would appeal to a type 1 FA.
While this is fantasy I know, it points out how waiting for Rubio for another year or two is wasting years that could be used tojell a team now. Makes this all in on Rubio strategy look more tenuous.
by mystic penguin on Jul 15, 2010 10:05 AM CDT reply actions
That interview
This Kahn hate hard-on that people have is absolutely retarded. People have completely made statements about the interview that simply aren’t true and taken things out of context.
I saw a couple of commenters say “He said his kid knows more about basketball than he does.” That isn’t what he said, he clearly joked that “Kelly would be more informative (interview) than me” after the interviewer said we’ll talk to David and maybe Kelly too.
He didn’t say Darko was as good of a passer as Vlade Divac or Webber. He never said that Darko was the best passing big man he’s ever seen, but he did say that he was a big man in the mold of Divac who could pass well. He said that the Wolves were trying to have good passers at all of their positions so they could run an offense much like the one the Kings ran when Vlade and Webber were there. Webber was an idiot. He also wasn’t saying that Darko’s career was the same as Webbers, he was obviously saying that sometimes people need the right situation to succeed and he thinks the Wolves are that situation for Darko.
It’s fashionable to rip on Kahn, but the truth is no one knows YET if the moves he has made will work. We’ll know in two years. Just like you no one, not a single person, can say whether not drafting Cousins is a mistake. Because, we don’t know what kind of player he will be. He looked good last night, he could look terrible two years from now. We won’t know until then.
I’m getting tired of everyone acting like they know. You don’t. None of us do and none of us will until a couple years from now.
Shoot, and here you had built up some real goodwill
with a non-douchey post yesterday.
I looked ahead to the open road, thought about the people and what they know, and wrote a book called "People Don't Know Nothin!"
We don't
His in a wide open system that fits his talents. Would he have that here? And, it’s not like Don Nelson wants anyone to guard anyone, so his undersizedness doesn’t bother him.
Steph Curry will likely be a very good player, but he ended up with a team that fits his talents and doesn’t care about his downside. I’m no Flynn fan, but I’m not ready to A) write him off completely and B) say Steph Curry would be a great player in a system other than a Don Nelson one.
Didn’t see the interview, but my past impressions of Webber are that he is a very poor TV presence. There have to be many other former players who could do a better job than Webber. Of course, he was full of himself as a player, too, and it kept him from reaching his potential.
by ogishkemuncie on Jul 15, 2010 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions
"Wolves lose to Cousins and Kings"
Sure hope we won’t be reading that several times a year for the next decade.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
DMC looked good last night but...
Foye also looked good in summer league games. DMC could be the next Rasheed like headcase, or he could be Carl Malone, who know’s?
But Webber is just bitter about something. He came off like a complete dick. Maybe its because he is now working calling summer league games for a third rate cable network and perhaps he blew all his money like Sprewell. Or maybe its because you only get 1/5th of the hoochies when you are out of the league than when you were in. Something is stuck in his craw.
Or maybe
he is still thinking about that timeout at Michigan
I doubt it.
He wasn’t thinking about it when he called the timeout, so it seems unlikely that he’s thinking about it now.
Fernandez a risk
Some on this blog have wanted us to trade for Fernandez as bait for Rubio. However, this is a two edged sword. What if we make the trade and he has no role on the team and doesn’t like the system or the staff, and conveys that message to Ricky. He could warn Ricky not to come here. So unless Fernandez fits a need and will like his role on the team, I won’t trade for him.
Rubio holds all the cards. He’s young enough to stay in Europe for the next four years and still arrive in the NBA just coming into his prime. All in on Rubio is a risky business, which means this current group of players Kahn is assembling better pan out and be an appealing team to play with or we’ll be a 15-25 win rebuilding team for a number of years.
by mystic penguin on Jul 15, 2010 10:14 AM CDT reply actions
I think you don't trade for Fernandez unless you like him enough to envision him as the
starter at shooting guard, with Johnson (or Webster) starting at the 3 and the other being the primary wing backup. I would at least try that, but YMMV. In that scenario, you probably trade Brewer (which is fine with me), because Beasley will need some minutes at the 3, and you still (theoretically) have Ellington and Hayward as deeper bench depth.
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on Jul 15, 2010 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Fernandez a Starter?
Eric, do you think he has the props be our starting 2 guard?
by mystic penguin on Jul 15, 2010 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Well, yes
I do under the current circumstances. Who else? Webster and Johnson are both more SFs, and Johnson is a rookie and Webster isn’t an all-star anyway. If you can get someone better, then by all means, go get that player.
But in a situation where you are adding Fernandez to this roster as it currently stands, who else would you start in front of him at that position?
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on Jul 15, 2010 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
CWebb is an idiot
Not only was he unprofessional, over-sensitive and snarky, but he is horrible to watch or listen to on TV. You think he could learn some personality from Barkley.
“You can’t tell he’s Irish?” – Said of Patrick O’Bryant
Anyone
heard any further rumors about where Sessions is heading? I’m really surprised at how under the radar this seems to be. The more I think about it the more I wonder if each side ‘independently arrived at the same conclusion’ about the trade. I’m sure Sessions can’t be happy about his PT, and I wonder sometimes how happy the coaching staff is with Sessions. Not that I’ve heard or seen anything to indicate that they aren’t happy, but perhaps he never developed the three point shot he was supposed to be working on this summer and they are content to move on from him? I’m grasping at straws here, I know…I’m just really curious if anyone knows/has heard anything about this yet.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
No idea
My theory has been that Kahn has a deal in place for Sessions that he’s satisfied with, and that’s why he went hard after Ridnour. He might be scouting around to see if there’s anything better out there, but I suspect there’s something that he knows he can do with Sessions.
I’m of somewhat mixed feelings. I think Sessions got the short end last year in terms of playing time and who he was playing with, which made him look worse. Ridnour is a better 3 point shooter, but I’m not sure he brings enough to the table to warrant me making this switch.
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on Jul 15, 2010 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions
He's more a fit for the traditional triangle PG
Bring the ball up, pass, and get to the corner for a 3. He’s a bit better on defense. I actually think one of the selling points is that he IS 29. He’s a backup PG, without pretensions to be more at this point. He’ll probably be a good balance to Flynn this year and Rubio in years to come.
Sessions probably needs to get into a situation that is better suited to him… one that allows him to get some minutes, create with the ball. He’s young enough still that he probably doesn’t want to get stuck on the bench behind a Flynn… who is still trying to prove that he’s a starter himself.
by Krotz the Wall on Jul 15, 2010 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions
What?
I agree Ridnour is a better defender and shooter, but are you suggesting Sessions doesn’t weigh enough? He’s got an inch on Ridnour, I believe, and I’m guessing he weighs more too.
by Hold_Steady on Jul 15, 2010 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions
Sorry but
I really think Kahn has no idea what he’s doing.
I’ve read all the comments above and I didn’t see not one comment that disagreed with Kahns comment of having a team full of passers. I think that’s ridiculous and I can’t believe nobody would call him out on this. A team full of passers?
Can somebody please answer this question.
What has Kahn really done for the Wolves since he’s taken over?
FYI
Rubio will never play for the Wolves
(The kid is a STAR/CELEBRITY in his own country)
Thank you for your generous contribution to this forum
And I was under the impression that the Wolves own Rubio’s rights, that he wants to play in the NBA, and he likes the idea of playing for Rambis whom he admired as a member of the great Showtime Lakers teams.
I’ll defer to your obviously superior knowledge on the subject.
Huh?
Are you serious?
“he likes the idea of playing for Rambis whom he admired as a member of the great Showtime Lakers teams.”
Considering Rambis stopped playing in 94 and Rubio was born in 90, I guess your right. He “admired” him while he played for the showtime Lakers. Especially since from 90-92 Rambis played with PHX. The 93 and 94 Lakers were far from showtime.
I have literally no clue what you're trying to say
We should be mad that Kahn wants a good passing team? That he wants a team like the early 00’s Kings? Yes, that would be terrible
FYI
If Rubio will never play for the Wolves, then he will never play in the NBA
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jul 15, 2010 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Fitting name, Jaka.
Kahn/Rambis want a free flowing offense. Nowhere did he say he wanted a team of ONLY passers. They want guys that could pass and were willing to share the ball. If you’re running a transition based team, you want good passers, it’s a no-brainer. You don’t want black holes that suck up the shot clock and put you in a position where you’re always taking a contested shot (ala Al Jefferson).
As for your question, he’s completely turned over the roster and improved it, while clearing space and gaining assets we can use to create a good team. He’s drafted an exciting player in Rubio with All-Star potential, who incidentally will be coming over here to play because he wants to play here, and he’s building a team around his future All-Star.
They want to run. They want to move the ball around and get open shots. They want athletic guys that can play transition and half-court defense.
Stop-and-Pop’s post from yesterday was dead on. We got lucky last year with the 5th pick that he was there and we’re trying to capitalize on it. They’re all in on Rubio. And they wouldn’t be if they didn’t KNOW he was coming over. Now, it could turn out that he’s a bust, and that they built a team around a guy who can’t play. I don’t think that will be the case, though. I think Rubio will be a great NBA point guard that will develop a good shot from the outside and be the kind of guy you build your franchise around.
Listen, Joka, you obviously want to hate Kahn. That’s cool. Nothing will change your mind. There have been moves I haven’t liked (I’m not a huge Johnny Flynn fan and would have liked pretty much anyone in the top 10 in that draft except him – and while I would’ve liked Cousins, we had a real need for Wes Johnson and he’s probably going to be a very good player), but Kahn has made a lot of good ones, if you’re looking at it as a team banking on Rubio. It’s a gamble, but it really is the best we can do right now.
“he’s completely turned over the roster and improved it, "
U won 15 games last year.
“He’s drafted an exciting player in Rubio with All-Star potential, who incidentally will be coming over here to play because he wants to play here, and he’s building a team around his future All-Star.”
When is Rubio coming over to play in Minny?
“They want to run. They want to move the ball around and get open shots. "
Don’t they run the triangle?
“They want athletic guys that can play transition and half-court defense.”
Like Beasley and Darko?
“They’re all in on Rubio. And they wouldn’t be if they didn’t KNOW he was coming over. "
Your giving Kahn way to much credit.
“but Kahn has made a lot of good ones,”
Please give a list of the good moves he’s made. I guarantee you my list of bad moves will almost double your list.
“but it really is the best we can do right now.”
I understand what your man badpoet and I respect what you say. I’ve been here and I always give the fans here respect (even though I get beat up for it). I always said Minny fans are smart and great. However, TRUST ME…as someone that had Isiah running his team for 4 or 5 years….I know a bad VP of OP’s or a bad GM when I see one. I can tell when they don’t know what their doing. Kahn has no clue what his goal is.
They won 15 games with McHale’s roster.
Rubio’s coming next year.
They don’t run the triangle.
Beasley can play transition basketball and Darko can play half-court defense.
You’re giving Kahn way too little credit, and you type like a 12-year old.
Good moves: Going with Love over Jefferson; clearing up cap space; having a roster devoid of albatrosses (cap wise and talent wise); I could list more but it’s honestly pointless to talk to media-parrots like you.
You give us no respect. You always say nothing. Don’t try and kiss ass while being a troll, it won’t suit you. Just shows you lack the courage of your convictions.
If you can’t see what Kahn’s goal is, or what he’s doing, you’re not trying.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jul 15, 2010 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions
“They won 15 games with McHale’s roster.”
They will still be a lottery team next year.
“Rubio’s coming next year.”
I’ll believe it when I see it.
“They don’t run the triangle.”
What offense do they run? Are you sure they don’t run the triangle?
“You’re giving Kahn way too little credit, and you type like a 12-year old.”
Thanks..I’m actually 10 years old.
“Going with Love over Jefferson; clearing up cap space;”
Why because he gave up Jefferson for a bucket of ice?
Jesus man.
Not long ago, you said:
Nobody and I mean nobody will be taking on Jeffersons contract… Sorry guys, looks like Jefferson is all Kahns problem.
Back then, you didn’t think Kahn could give Jefferson away, and now you’re faulting him for doing what you didn’t previously think was possible?
And what’s your opinion of the Knicks’ off-season? You’ve been curiously quiet about the prospects for your own team. Was getting Amar’e and Felton in free agency your dream scenario? I see that you’re not registered for the Knicks’ site, at least under this screen name, so I can’t tell what you say about your own team’s moves.
by Madison Dan on Jul 15, 2010 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions
I was told LITERALLY yesterday that they DO, in fact, run the triangle.
I asked about why Jefferson and Flynn didn’t work in it.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jul 15, 2010 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions
They'll run a modified version of it
You need a truly dynamic 2 or 3 to run the Tex Winter version of it, like Kobe or Jordan. We don’t have that. When we are in half court and Rubio is here, the two man game will be between Rubio and (probably) Beasley (if he pans out) or Johnson. We’ll need a PF with some range (Love) and a big that can rebound and play half court defense on the other team’s big.
Their goal is not to be in a halfcourt set most of the time, though. They want to be a transition based team, not a half court Triangle team.
I think Rambis’ vision is to have this team play like the 1977 Portland Trail Blazers as much as possible. With Milicic and Love throwing outlet passes to Wesley Johnson and Corey Brewer on the break this team is going to get a lot of easy baskets. The triangle offense comes into play when the running game isn’t there. The triangle is just a read-and-react offense that is very useful at creating open shot attempts for a team without a point guard to take care of that duty. Once Rubio comes over we will see a dramatic reduction in the amount of use we get out of the triangle because if you’ve seen this guy play you know it’s almost like he makes the half court game into transition basketball with the way he passes and attacks the basket.
Here's the issue
Goal #1 on offense has always been stated as getting points in transition. Goal #2 on offense has been stated as being able to get into an offense without calling a play. What they run is a 1-guard front to accommodate a more traditional PG, but the principles of maintaining spacing and exploiting the soft spots of the defense are the same. It’s a form of the triangle, but it isn’t the focus of their offense; it is what they go into if they can’t get a transition hoop.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jul 15, 2010 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Okay
A) Rubio is coming over next year (or the year after if there is a lockout).
B) They will run a version of the Triangle, but they want to be a transition first team, so hopefully they won’t be in a halfcourt set that often. But when they are, they will run a modified, unconventional Triangle.
C) Beasley is athletic. Darko is a 7 foot tall guy. He’s certainly a better defender in the half court that Al Jefferson is.
D) Maybe I am giving him too much credit, but I think I’d rather give him some leeway to see where we end up than just jumping all over him because it’s the fashionable thing to do.
E)
The Good: Getting the 5th pick from the Wizards, using it for Rubio, drafting Wayne Ellington, drafting Wesley Johnson, getting Beasley and Darko for nothing (second round picks), getting two first round picks for Al and NOT taking a single bad contract back in return, acquiring Webster, getting rid of our remaining bad contracts to set us up with a young, cheap team, and tanking last year to try to get a higher pick (and if it hadn’t been for that damn lottery…).
The Bad: Taking Johnny Flynn over a number of players.
The Unknown: Not taking Cousins, Pekovic, the Darko contract (which, even if he doesn’t pan out, isn’t enough to make it bad in my book, it was worth a shot).
F) There’s no comparison between Isaiah and Kahn at this point. Isaiah put his team in a terrible spot with the sexual harassment suit, signing Vin Baker, Jerome James, trading pick away for nothing, Stephon Marbury, and many, many more.
So, we won 15 games last year. Who cares? Personally, I’d like one more year of tanking to get another shot at a top 3 pick. But, if we win 25+ that’d be fine with me. The real test will be when Rubio gets here and we see whether or not he’s the real deal and whether or not we built the right team to put him in a place to succeed.
For such a media-savvy guy...
It’s surprising that Kahn would say so many things that could be interpreted badly in a different context. I watched the interview and understand that he was trying to engage C-Webb because the dude was standoffish, but it’d be nice if he was a little less verbose and said things like that to Darko in private than put himself out there like that. If Taylor and Moor hired him as the lightning rod, then he’s certainly doing his job, but I’d much rather just be the fan of an unsuccessful team without adding “whose GM says things that allow him to be made fun of by morons.”
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jul 15, 2010 12:06 PM CDT reply actions
On one hand I agree
On the other hand, with Kahn being the guy that national writers and bloggers love to hate, anything he says can and will be taken out of context. He didn’t say anything that, if looked at in context of the whole discussion, was really off-base. Chris Webber didn’t really flourish and come into his own as a complete player until Sacramento. He had good stats, but was seen as a guy with tremendous talent and a bad attitude that kept him front being regarded as a top PF in the league. There’s a reason he was moved a couple times before getting to the Kings. Once he was there with the right coach and system, he blossomed into one of the better PF ever to play in the NBA.
“Chris Webber didn’t really flourish and come into his own as a complete player until Sacramento.”
Would you like to rephrase that? I don’t know how old you are but C-Webb averaged like 20 and 9 in his first 5 years in the league before he went to SAC. What has Darko averaged? Darko and C-Webb should never be put in the same sentence. C-Webb finished his career averaging over 20 points and 9 rebounds per game. FOR HIS CAREER. Actually he averaged 9.8 boards for his career so I give him 10.
“but was seen as a guy with tremendous talent and a bad attitude that kept him front being regarded as a top PF in the league.”
He was a top PF in the league. A bad attitude doesn’t keep you from being regarded as a top PF in the league.
“There’s a reason he was moved a couple times before getting to the Kings. "
Yeah, it’s called Don Nelson. In case you haven’t noticed, Nelson still does the same nonsense.
It was an incredibly hallow 20 and 9 though, of the Zach Randolph/Al Jefferson variety
And he was known as a LARGE malcontent – pretty sure there was a gun story in there.
Anyone with a brain would say he was a very talented play who really came into his own in Sacramento. It’s not an insult and it’s not dumb.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jul 15, 2010 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Mid-30's.
First, he didn’t compare CWebb and Darko as players. He said that until Sacramento, CWebb didn’t become the great player he was supposed to be (and became in Sacremento) until he got into the right situation. He said he thinks Darko will flourish with the Wolves because this is the right situation for Darko. He didn’t say that Darko was going to be as good as Chris Webber, nor did he compare them talent-wise or as players. He was commenting on the situation.
If you can remember his time at Golden State, you remember he had good numbers but constantly butted heads with Don Nelson, to the point where they traded away a 20/10 guy just to get rid of him. They ran him out of Washington 2 or 3 years after he got there. He was a cancer in their locker room.
When he got traded to Sacramento, he changed. He became a leader, something he hadn’t been since the time-out in Michigan (I think it took him years to get over that and most of his problems with the Warriors and Bullets had more to do with that than anything else). Once he figured out how to be a leader, he became one of the best PF in the game. Before that, he was a guy that got good stats on bad teams and was a pain in the ass in the locker room.
I do remember how talented he was. And I also remember watching him and Rasheed Wallace almost piss away their careers due to their attitudes. Both those guys had million dollar talent and 10 cent heads until they got to the right situation. T
by badpoet on Jul 15, 2010 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Very nice summation.
That is how I recall it as well.
by Krotz the Wall on Jul 15, 2010 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions
+1
Both Wallace and Webber had KG level talent, but not the disposition to capitalize on it. The NBA is loaded with folks with tremendous athletic gifts who underperform or are just knuckleheads.
by ogishkemuncie on Jul 15, 2010 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions
That's gorgeous
I’d much rather just be the fan of an unsuccessful team without adding "whose GM says things that allow him to be made fun of by morons."
Summer League is irrelevant unless it validates my opinion
by Son of Gerald Green on Jul 15, 2010 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Very well put indeed
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
Webber's Cred
I don’t know, but in the context of what Webber was saying during the 5 minutes before Kahn put the headset on, I think maybe Kahn was pretty annoyed-and rightly so.
Webber’s incessant claims that no one that knows basketball can figure out what the Wolves front office is doing is downright laughable, and proves to me that Webber’s only value was to expound on DMC’s greatness as he walked around the 21 collective feet of inadequacy the Wolves stood in front of him at the 5. (I do think DMC will be a stud, BTW). It’s kind of a “I’ll close my eyes so you can’t see me” type of stupidity that only a 5th tier NBATV sock puppet can have.
If Webber, or any other of the so-called national NBA experts, can’t seem to realize what the Wolves are trying to gut the organization and team in order to rebuild it for profitability, athleticism and flexibility—whether you agree with Kahn’s methodology or not (not saying I do)— then I need to question their analytical acumen. Kahn gave him the business a little and dismissed him, and Webber didn’t like not having his ego stroked, so he got chippy.
I’m just glad that Kahn spoke up for what his vision is and he is trying to fulfill it—win or lose, either way, it won’t be from lack of trying.
Um....
If Webber, or any other of the so-called national NBA experts, can’t seem to realize what the Wolves are trying to gut the organization and team in order to rebuild it for profitability, athleticism and flexibility
So as a fan you are OK with the “gutting” of your team as long as it results in “profitability, athleticism and flexibility”? How about the chance at winning a CHAMPIONSHIP!?
Khan has made some pretty questionable decisions IMO, but the parallels he alluded to regarding Webber & Divac to Darko was downright moronic. The #’s speak for themselves:
Vlade Divac career ast pct: 16.0 | Chris Webber: 20.2 | Darko Milicic: 7.2
"We are NOT going to talk about me and Darko in the same sentence!" - Chris Webber to David "Dipshit" Khan
Personally,
I think the Wolves have a higher likelihood of a championship in their future now that they have traded Al Jeff, and his contract, for cap space and picks. The team is all in on Rubio and in using flexibility and assets to bring back a game changing player. These are home run type swings, but they are at least shots at something… a possible path to a deep run in the playoffs. The Wolves didn’t even have that as a possibility not all that long ago.
Of course, it could all still go up in smoke. But… well, we’re saying there is a chance.
by Krotz the Wall on Jul 15, 2010 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Um...
I think that the chance of winning a championship is way better now that it was before, but when you are rebuilding everything without having Durant land in your lap, you have to grind it out, and it will take a long time and a ton of moves to overhaul. I am OK with gutting the team if it keeps us from taking on monstrous, horrible contracts only to finish with 35 wins with absolutely NOWHERE to go. As a fan of THIS club, I am obviously willing to pretty much put up with everything. :)
The Divac parallel is pretty unfounded, but what I got out of the Kahn remark about Webber was that it took a couple of teams for him to get to a place where he really fit in as a teammate and a leader. IN NO WAY did Kahn imply that he was comparing numbers. I agree with the assessment that he made about that. He was saying that we were lucky for a team like us to get a big man with untapped potential in our system for dirt cheap compared to junk like Dalembert or Gooden. Webber probably would have agreed with that too if he wasn’t pouting.
It would have been epic if Kahn would have replied to “We are NOT going to talk about me and Darko in the same sentence!” with “Yeah, Chris…Darko has a ring!” and spiked the headset down!
Holy shit
That would have been funny to do. Uncalled for, but funny.
What would have followed that response...
could only be described as a spirited game of ‘Whack-A-Mole’.
Well, we certainly wouldn't have anyone complaining about Kahn anymore
I think the people here are classy enough to not speak ill of the dead :)
Side note RE: Ridnour's contract...
I have stated that I’m not sold on why we picked up Ridnour, but I also don’t see it as overtly stupid or irrational. But the national media not only hates the move, they laugh at Kahn for giving a 29 year old a 4 year deal…
Mike Miller (age 30) just received a 5 year deal… he is on his 4th team in 4 years, averaged @ the same pts as Ridnour last year, had a career best 3pt % (as Ridnour had a career best in FG%) and projects as a bench player (as does Ridnour)… yet I have yet to see a disparaging word against this move or this contract.
by San Diego Viking on Jul 15, 2010 4:21 PM CDT reply actions
That’s because everyone knows what the Heat’s plans are for their team. Everyone knows what role Miller is going to be playing on that team. Everyone also knows that Miller has never been known for what he can do on the defensive end of the floor and what he does on the offensive end of the floor doesn’t require much in the way of athleticism, so the fact that he will be showing signs of aging by the middle of that contract is irrelevant because the deterioration in his game won’t be noticeable due to the fact that it will happen to parts of his game that aren’t good to begin with. Nobody (outside of our fan base) is quite certain what the Wolves’ plans are. Nobody is quite certain what role Ridnour will be playing for this team (his veteran presence will be a key to tapping the potential of our young guys – but will it be the same role as Brian Cardinal of a year ago or will it be a role where he plays a lot of minutes and closes out games for us). Those differences are behind the media’s love affair with the Miller signing and confusion with the Ridnour signing.
Kahn and the national media
http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2010/07/15/weird-science/?ls=iref:nbahpt1
In this Bill Simmons podcast they make short references to him throughout but later on they really tear into him.
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/player?rd=1#/podcenter/?id=5377486&autoplay=1&callsign=ESPNRADIO
I disagree with about 75 percent of his moves (especially his drafts) and I think he’s pretty annoying in interviews but wow is he taking a beatdown in the national media. I’m almost feeling bad for him.
by absentmindedprof on Jul 15, 2010 5:16 PM CDT reply actions
It's his own flipping fault
Lack of accomplishments + Wildly puzzling moves +Never meeting a microphone he doesn’t like = He’s going to be the go-to punching bag, at least until the Wolves have some unexpected success and/or he ducks back behind the scenes where he belongs
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