Wolves Updates 7/19
by SG on Jul 19, 2010 12:34 AM CDT
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Wolves wrap up summer league play, Sessions trade rumors and more
From Brian Windhorst/The Plain Dealer:
It seems like it might just be a matter of time before the Cavs and the Minnesota Timberwolves make some sort of trade. What type of trade is still under discussion. Over the past several weeks the Cavs have talked to the Wolves about since-traded Al Jefferson and point guard Jonny Flynn, who Minnesota does not want to trade.
Two Wolves currently on the block, though, interest the Cavs. One is guard Ramon Sessions, made available when Minnesota signed Luke Ridnour last week. The other is young center and Canton native Kosta Koufos.
The timing couldn't be better for Minnesota to move Sessions, as a number of teams are looking for point guard help. The Indiana Pacers, Charlotte Bobcats, and Cleveland Cavaliers have all been in contact with Minnesota to explore what it would take to land Sessions. The Cavaliers are believed to be the frontrunners at this point, primarily because the Timberwolves would love to have Delonte West's contract in return, with the idea that they would waive him and it would cost the team just $500,000 to save $4 million. Minnesota would throw in Kosta Koufas, as well.
Sessions may not be an elite level point guard, but he is more than capable of running a team. The issue in Minnesota has everything to do with his inability to run the triangle, not his overall ability to play the point. Considering that the Timberwolves are seeking little beyond cap relief in return, don't be surprised to see Sessions moved soon.
In Related
Another player who seems to be the odd man out in Minnesota is center Ryan Hollins. He had his moments last season, playing especially well during the team's season-long five-game winning streak, but with the re-signing of Darko Milicic and the addition of Nikola Pekovic it seems likely Hollins will be moved.
From NBA.com: Hawks finish Summer League with win over Timberwolves
The Hawks finish their 2010 NBA Summer League schedule with an 3-2 record, while the Timberwolves head back to Minnesota with a record of 1-4 at the desert classic.
From Jonah Ballow/Timberwolves site: Wolves Suffer Loss In Summer League Finale
From Marc J. Spears/Yahoo! Sports: NBA summer league: Winners & losers
LOSER: Minnesota Timberwolves
Wesley Johnson(notes), the third overall pick for the T’wolves, played in just one game in Las Vegas because of a hamstring injury. Second-year Wolves guard Jonny Flynn(notes) also didn’t play in the summer league because of a hip injury.
With Johnson and Flynn out, it was the Patrick O’Bryant(notes) and Wayne Ellington(notes) show for Minnesota in Vegas.
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I was wondering if Hollins
would make the jump?
Breaking down cognitive dissonance and group think since gasoline was cheap.
For Cap Space
pleeeease!
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Jul 19, 2010 7:57 AM CDT up reply actions
So,
who’s staying and going?
Stiemsma-gone
O’Bryant-in
aren't these two interchangeable?
i haven’t seen Steimsma as much. does exhibit the same root system that patty-o has displayed?
Stiemsma will go to Sioux Falls...
… and be happy with it. O’Bryant – not so sure if I care where he goes.
Can we please find a way to send The Steamer to Cleveland?
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
I'd just prefer we hold onto Hollins
unless we can get cap relief for him. At least Hollins can be useful in situations where we decide to press and trap for brief stints. These other two guys are slow-moving space eaters, something we already have covered with our current set of bigs.
by Rascal Flatts on Jul 19, 2010 7:35 AM CDT up reply actions
Hollins or Stiemsma
Both kind of one-trick ponys. Hollins more athletic/can dunk well. Stiemsma can block shots. I go Stiemsma for the six fouls and 2-3 blocks he will get in a small space of time.
O’Bryant. Nothing stood out.
by ChicagoViking on Jul 19, 2010 7:53 AM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
Stiemsma offers more value, in my opinion, as a legit banging defensive big. We don’t need a pogo stick anymore – we’ve got enough of that in Beasley, Wes, Webster, and Brewer. What we need is some competent defensive play and fouls to throw at the Pau’s, the Bynums, the Al’s, the Yao’s of the WC. Hollins’ game matches up poorly with the big boys, whereas Stiemsma matches up a lot better.
Out of all the SL bigs, though, the one I’d want to keep is Deon Thompson. Only guy who seemed to show up. Dude needs a lot of work, but I like his skills.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
I'd like to see us keep Stiemsma for one reason...
…to watch him goad DMC into misplays and fouls or worse.
Then they both get to sit. The anti-DMC would be good for us.
All about Deon Thompson
If he gets a little stronger he could really compete. Smart player who positions well for rebounds.
Wolves summer league
How can you not mention Lazar Hayward? I’m sure the Wolves are fine with how Ellington and Lazar played.
Breaking down cognitive dissonance and group think since gasoline was cheap.
Yeah, they did some nice spot-up. Hayward has a nice, quick release, too.
"Latrell Sprewell - feeding his family since 1992"
by WillistonCoyote on Jul 19, 2010 12:58 AM CDT up reply actions
Wasn't very impressed with Hayward....at all
If defense is his calling card, he has a long ways to go. He was caught flat footed a number of times and got beaten off the dribble. Offensively his outside shot was inconsistent and his driving game is straight-line only. So he practices hard. Yay.
by Rascal Flatts on Jul 19, 2010 7:38 AM CDT up reply actions
5 min/game max
Especially at first. Lazar thrived in the system he knew well at Marquette and he has the athleticism and ball skills to play someday, but he looked way out of his depth in the two summer games I watched.
Working hard
doesn’t make up for lack of production. Go look at his summer league stats – very unimpressive. That’s not to say he won’t improve and eventually push for minutes, but based on the 5 games I saw, he’s got a long ways to go.
http://www.nba.com/summerleague2010/players/lazar_hayward/index.html
by Rascal Flatts on Jul 19, 2010 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions
why was he a first round pick?
Again we could of had him in the 2nd round
I really have no idea
other than he won’t complain when he gets all of those DNPs.
by Rascal Flatts on Jul 19, 2010 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Couple of things...
First, evaluating a guy likely to be a 4th/5th option based on what he did as a 2nd option doesn’t factor in the difference in roles. I don’t think he’ll get minutes because there’s a lot of guys ahead of him, but he definitely showed more than guys like Whiteside.
Second, late first-round picks are exactly where a guy like Hayward belongs. Any second-rounder who can contribute right away will be overpaid after 1-2 years (Wesley Matthews being the latest example) because they have a short contract and therefore not much time to produce. Most upside picks take more than 2 years to pan out and can end up being a wasted investment if the team gives up on them. We can quibble about whether he can play, but guys like him and Ellington are the right type of pick late in the first round because they’re more likely to produce for the team that drafts them and do so at a small cost.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jul 19, 2010 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Agree on Ellington, not on Hayward
I don’t see how Hayward will contribute right away, especially with Beasley, Wes, Brewer, Webster, and Ellington in the mix. And Wes Matthews is a downright exceptional situation. Very rarely does a guy come into the NBA and actually beat his career best 2pt and 3pt FG% from college in his rookie year.
Ellington on the other hand brought in a skill we were short on – 3 point shooting. Hayward hustles and is a good practice player with a mature attitude….Sounds like Corey Brewer to me. Not sure why we needed him.
by Rascal Flatts on Jul 19, 2010 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions
I rather drafted a euro project with the 30th
like Tibor Pleiss
or Armon Johnson, Terrico White, Darington Hobson, Lance Stephenson have way more upside than
Hayward and will have long careers in the league. so what if they aren’t ready its not we are ready either.
1) Euros won’t come over right away if they’re limited by the rookie scale. It’s why Tiago Splitter just signed with the Spurs this year.
2) You can’t start a player’s contract at the time they’re “ready.” It starts when they come into the league, and if those guys take 3 years to figure it out, the team has basically developed them for the benefit of another franchise unless they want to overpay them when the time comes.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jul 20, 2010 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions
That’s more a numbers game than anything else; the fact that there are capable rotation wings ahead of him doesn’t make him a bad player.
There’s just a difference between being asked to create for yourself and being able to play off of other guys. That’s all I’m saying. If nothing else, the jury is still out. Hayward didn’t benefit from having Flynn and Brewer on the floor like Ellington did last year. I watched an entire game looking at only what he and Ellington would do on both ends whether they had the ball or not, and on that level it’s not difficult to see that he contributes in all the ways a role player should contribute.
It’s just shortsighted to come to any conclusions based on summer league. You can talk about Ellington being a good shooter, but he shot 22% from 3 this summer while Hayward shot 28%. I’m willing to give both guys the benefit of the doubt since neither is on this team to provide volume scoring.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jul 20, 2010 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions
not to mention he says Johnson was the THIRD pick….
by Wim (Belgium) on Jul 19, 2010 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions
+1
I can understand how some facts might get misreported. But when you’re writing about basketball, and the draft is one of the 3 or 4 most important events on the basketball calendar, don’t you have to get a fact like that right in order to maintain any sort of credibility?
Pekovic looks like...
…Prince Namor of the Deep, The Submariner. I used to read that
comic book when I was a kid. He looks just like him.
"Latrell Sprewell - feeding his family since 1992"
by WillistonCoyote on Jul 19, 2010 1:02 AM CDT reply actions
Check it out...
Look at the hairline. Classic Submariner:
http://content.draftexpress.com/gallery/NikolaPekovic/1209487814.jpg
"Latrell Sprewell - feeding his family since 1992"
by WillistonCoyote on Jul 19, 2010 1:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Wes..The 3rd overall pick...
Hmmm…good reporting.
I was going to pick that knit...
but you beat me to it. Kudos.
by newfrickinshow on Jul 19, 2010 5:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Last point for me on Kahn v. Webber I before I try to put it behind me.
Kahn wasn’t saying Darko is manna from heaven generally, he was saying that he was for THE WOLVES because we were a train wreck at interior D, shot blocking and passing from the post.
From the beginning of the interview it seemed like webber was trying to pick a fight with Kahn. Eventually Kahnzie served up meatball and Webber went into Jocks/Nerds mode.
Defending Kahn is starting to feel like a game of tetris
by fanslaststand on Jul 19, 2010 5:30 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
I watched the Kahn-Webber interview
… and I actually thought Kahn was sort of antagonizing Webber intentionally b/c, as fanslaststand said, it was pretty apparent that Webber was trying to pick a fight with Kahn. So Kahn just obliged and compared Darko to Webber.
I’m not sure if that interview does The Wolves any good at all PR-wise, but it was nice to see Kahn go back at Webber a bit and defend The Wolves’ moves.
Webber wore out his welcome
Couldn’t it be said that Webber wore out his welcome with a lot of teams as well. One season with GS and then off to DC. 3 seasons there and off to Sac-town. He had 5 different teams in the NBA and came back to GS at the end of his carrer. So it really seems like the pot calling the kettle black when he asked Kahn about taking someone that other teams have given up on. Maybe Kahn just struck a raw nerve with Webber when he mentioned that the first two teams Webb played for really didn’t want him around.
For the record
Kahn never actually compared Darko to Webber. At best you can say that Kahn made an inferred comparison between the two players but only in a very specific context, that being how sometimes players need to be in the right place at the right time to really take off. There was never any insinuation that Kahn was suggesting that Webber was a good comparison for Darko’s talent. If anything Kahn went out of his way to avoid such a comparison by specifically mentioning Vlade. To me recalling those Sacto teams, that’s a huge distinction. It would be something akin to comparing a guy to Googs instead of KG back in the day, know what I mean?
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
True
That is right. Kahn did not compare Darko to Webber. He just asked if Webber can relate to the idea of improving as a player later in an NBA career. That is not a difficult concept.
Then Kahn said Darko was the best passing big he had seen since Vlade. “Since” Vlade. Not the same as Vlade. He was just making the point that Darko is a decent passer.
And then he was just referring to the idea of “Manna from Heaven” as receiving something unexpectedly. An unexpected boon. Darko fell into our laps right when we needed a legit big defensive center, and we got him for nothing. Kahn is not calling Darko a divine player from Heaven bestowed by god, he just is saying he came unexpectedly and it was good to have him.
I wonder what is wrong with these writers that they try to spin everything so hard against the wolves. Why do they take it so personally? You think they would be more professional.
by wolver on Jul 19, 2010 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
So Summer League
For those who saw our matches was there anyone outside of our rostered guys who have a shot at an NBA roster?
I think this is the first time in history one man managed to destroy an entire city by himself. Even the Enola Gay had a flight crew.
Maybe Deon Thompson...
I think he’d be a nice training camp invite and potential D-League stash. He’s played a lot of college hoops and, while he’s only 6-8 (with shoes), his wingspan is exactly the same as Al Jefferson’s. So I’d say he’d have the length and composure to play a reserve role in The NBA at some point. He just needs to refine his game a bit still and Sioux Falls/Europe may be the place to do it.
Other than that (and Lazar, Ellington, Wes), I could see O’Bryant sticking around for a while because he’s tall. I just don’t know if he’ll ever find a motor.
Pretty much agree with your take
The other guy that was impressive defensively was Westbrook. Holy smokes does that guy pressure the ball. The rest of his game looks pretty shaky, but I could see him being called up as a 3rd PG with some team just to play some spot minutes as an on-the-ball pressure guard.
by Rascal Flatts on Jul 19, 2010 7:43 AM CDT up reply actions
And he will hit FT
So, a third PG somewhere is tops for him.
by ChicagoViking on Jul 19, 2010 7:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, those guys have a chance
I wish we hadn’t unloaded Trevor Booker. If he has nothing else, he
has aggression and desire. I think he’ll make his new team.
"Latrell Sprewell - feeding his family since 1992"
by WillistonCoyote on Jul 19, 2010 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe fill a role like
Artest does for the Lakers? A harassing defensive man that
can sometimes do other things? I like that idea.
"Latrell Sprewell - feeding his family since 1992"
by WillistonCoyote on Jul 19, 2010 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions
I watched a lot of summer league games, not just ours.
And the name that stuck out the most was Alonzo Gee, who I believe was invited to training camp last year, but was ultimately cut, for I guess, Jason Hart, who was traded for Alando Tucker who was cut to sign Stiemsma. I could be wrong, but he did look strong in SL. I’d love to see the Wolves take another look at him this year if they have a chance.
"Life is hard...it's even harder if you're stupid" - John Wayne
Except
He was playing in the SL for the Spurs. What are the chances that they let him find his way to another team? The Spurs are probably the model for building a successful NBA franchise at this point – all of the other recent champions came together as the result of a rather one-sided trade. Their track record on talent selection and retention is very good. If they let this guy get away from them, I’d have to wonder what it is that they see in this guy that convinced them to not give him a spot on their roster.
They did let Scola go..
But that was kind of a fluke. You’re right that they’re an excellent franchise as a whole.
I do wonder how James Anderson’s presence affects Gee. Probably not a ton of PT for him with a resigned Ginobilli and Anderson out there.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
Cousins
Ran out of gas in Summer League. Yep, they don’t play that many games in a short time span, but he is out of shape. And over 82 games, it will show. If he wants to be great, he has to address that. Has more skills than most in the NBA.
Will he be a star or a frustrating player that shows flashes of brilliance?
by ChicagoViking on Jul 19, 2010 8:10 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Cousins stats in last summer league game
- 8% shooting
- 100% nagging referees
- 100% pouting and ignoring instruction from coaches during time outs
For the record I supported the Wolves drafting Cousins, but I think it’s a coin toss at this point and am no longer upset about them passing on him.
by Facial on Jul 19, 2010 8:24 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
lol
What an amazing roller coaster on the public opinion of Cousins. Even when he was playing well I noticed he tends to pout.
The lesson of the day kids is that even if Cousins lights it up out of the gate, we need to wait a while to see if he can sustain and how he copes over the long haul.
Personally
I hope Cousins does figure out how to get in shape and play hard for an entire season. I’d really like to see what he’s capable of doing – no Oden please. (Speaking of which, that’s another guy I wish could play an entire season for the same reasons). For the record I am happy with drafting Wes and passing on Cousins (more for philosophical reasons than anything), but Cousins has a great chance to be special and it would really be too bad if he can’t consistently put himself in position to show/develop that over the course of his career.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
by biggity2bit on Jul 19, 2010 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions
What?!
Why on earth would you want Cousins to be a great player? Are you a masochist? If Cousins turns out to be a superstar we are going to have to hear about it for decades. People whining and complaining about passing on Cousins. He hasn’t even done anything yet and we already hear it!
I hope Cousins is decidedly average and Wes Johnson turns into a perennial all-star. Less for the Wolves then just so I don’t have to hear about it for my entire life.
by wolver on Jul 19, 2010 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I guess
I’m over not drafting Cousins. For where this team is headed, for the kind of team we want to be, Cousins was a poor fit. Wes was a very good pickup for us. People can quibble all they want about Cousins as BPA and how a team in our position doesn’t have the luxury of selecting the BPA, but the salient point for me is that Rambis either doesn’t want to build around a guy like Cousins or doesn’t believe that building around Cousins is the ticket for long term success in the league. Passing on Cousins is less an argument that Wes Johnson is going to be a superstar and more a proclamation from Rambis (and Ronzone) that talented as he might be, Cousins isn’t a Dwight Howard/Hakeem/Shaq caliber talent. Based on Summer League play thus far I think it’s clear that John Wall was absolutely the right guy to go number 1 overall. In terms of our squad, we chose Rubio over Cousins. Time will tell if that’s the right decision or not.
Having said all that, I do think that Cousins has a chance to be an entertaining player to watch, and as a fan of basketball why wouldn’t I want that? I have no grudge against any of these guys – I don’t want to see guys fail or get hurt. And I’m not concerned about comparing Cousins to our guys because at the end of the day (like Jordan) I just want to beat them. If we actually have real aspirations for returning to the WCF we aren’t going to attain them by hoping that other teams’ players underachieve. We’re going to get there because we correctly identified that for what we want to do adding a Wes Johnson was a better move than adding a DMC (that is, shifting to a running, perimeter oriented system instead of a low post dominant system was the right choice). We’re going to get there because we’ve correctly identified that Martell Webster has more game than advertised, that Nikola Pekovic is every bit the low post scorer Al Jefferson is at a fraction of the cost, that Wayne Ellington and Lazar Hayward have ceilings as very good role players, and that Ricky Rubio makes more players more better and more productive than DMC ever will.
So ya, I hope DMC does develop and play well. I don’t see any reason why I shouldn’t look forward to what he can do.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
by biggity2bit on Jul 19, 2010 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions
For DMC it's either 20 and 10
or ten to twenty.
No middle here.
by fanslaststand on Jul 19, 2010 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
One thing is certain:
If we had taken Cousins and he performed for us as he did for Sacto, there would be a lot of unhappiness on this board.
Guess what: The FO identified some problems, and DMC displayed the reasons why they passed on him — front and center, on NBA TV.
Also, was it Kahn or someone else who said that DMC would be a good player for his 2nd or 3rd team, and why take him now when you could wait and get him after he matures?
The arc of DMC’s career might be something like Darko’s.
I am not over passing on Cousins
but we won’t know how this story plays out for a good 5-6 years at least.
Tyreke will help
A PG that can get in the lane is key for a big man.
by fanslaststand on Jul 19, 2010 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions
I am over Cousins because
first of all, I don’t like problem children who can destroy my
investment, and second of all because if he is great and gets
over his tantrums, he’ll leave us for the end of the rainbow.
I think Wes has more character, and he’s a great player. I’m happy
with the draft and glad they passed on Cousins.
"Latrell Sprewell - feeding his family since 1992"
by WillistonCoyote on Jul 19, 2010 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions
The arc may well represent Zac Randolph.
I think this is the first time in history one man managed to destroy an entire city by himself. Even the Enola Gay had a flight crew.
by Auswolf on Jul 19, 2010 3:06 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I've never been less certain of any post ever on CH
One thing is certain:
If we had taken Cousins and he performed for us as he did for Sacto, there would be a lot of unhappiness on this board.
Summer League is irrelevant unless it validates my opinion
by Son of Gerald Green on Jul 19, 2010 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions
So Kahn's MLE signings last year were a complete failure
Kahn signed Sessions and Hollins with last year’s mid-level exception. If I remember correctly, Kahn received a lot of praise last year for his good use of the MLE. How quickly things change.
This is just another example of how sometimes it’s better to do nothing than to sign players to bad (or just OK) contracts. I hope Kahn does much better with the cap space he has available now, and waits for the right deal.
Just because they're not sticking around
doesn’t mean they weren’t solid pickups at the time.
I don’t think anybody’s saying that it was a mistake to sign Sessions, or that he was overpaid. It seems more like the team got a look at him and decided to go in a different direction in terms of a backup point guard. The salary was good enough where other teams are interested. No harm done.
As far as Hollins, it was a cheap (2.3m/yr) deal for a legit 7-footer who hadn’t been given much of a chance (highest minutes played before last season: 532 in 07-08. MP last season: 1223.) The team had nobody with that height and athleticism, and they weren’t looking to win now, so it was a fairly low-risk move to see if he could get it together. He didn’t, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t a solid look at a guy.
I think both deals were fine, and I wouldn’t be against more deals in that vein, at least until we establish who we’re moving forward with.
Everyone take a breath.
by losDelFuego on Jul 19, 2010 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Good points on Sessions and Hollins
I am very curious how Sessions will do on another team. The wolves did not give him an opportunity to use his strengths last year. The wolves can’t afford the opportunity to sign a player to an OK contract and then not use him correctly.
At this point, the wolves need to save the rest of their cap space for an impact player. Who or how to get that #1 player, I don’t know. But nickel-and-diming the remaining cap space is a mistake.
by ThisIsForSota on Jul 19, 2010 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Good point
about not having the luxury to sign a guy only to misuse him. I hope this is the new theme for this year – Rambis coaching to guy’s strengths.
I think in terms of signing Sessions and Hollins last year – they were good deals for us at the time. Sessions could’ve fit, and it would’ve been great. But perhaps more to the point is that we didn’t sign a bust. The trade interest in Sessions, even after his last season, is still pretty robust. That suggests to me that the signing wasn’t a bust or a mistake. As for Hollins, ya, he was kind of a mistake, but he also provided the only athleticism, height, and true length that we had in any of our bigs. That was huge for us, even if Hollins turned out to be more crazy legs and arms than a good basketball player. Adding Darko was kind of the first nail in the coffin of Hollins’ career here. Signing Pek was the second, and acquiring Beasley the last nail. Our center rotation will consist of Darko, Pek, and Love (with maybe some Stiemsma periodically). That’s vastly superior than Hollins/Al/Love in terms of what we want to do.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
by biggity2bit on Jul 19, 2010 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think Kahn
signed Sessions last year with the intention of using him as asset to trade later, not as a piece of the team’s future.
Sadly it appears that he misjudged the value of Sessions, as nobody appears to be offering anything other than cap relief for him.
crushed value
In the search for a top 2 draft pick they destroyed the value of sessions. He outperformed Flynn all year and ended up backing him up in a system that played to his weaknesses. I’m glad Kahn is trying to be nice to players and agents, because in a dollars and cents way, he really messed up the players who were with us last year (at least the ones who will be able to play in the league for awhile)
by midlife crisis on Jul 19, 2010 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions
+1
FT shooting aside, Sessions still has something to offer. Why we would swap him for Ridnour (effectively not literally) is beyond me.
I think this is the first time in history one man managed to destroy an entire city by himself. Even the Enola Gay had a flight crew.
by Auswolf on Jul 19, 2010 3:09 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
+1
The sessions trade chatter started right after he was signed. I think most people saw the signing as a good asset at a reasonable price and expected MN to trade it before now.
by Breaking Ankles on Jul 19, 2010 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't feel like Sessions outperformed Flynn at all
I would say it was more dead even between the 2. Sessions was a better distributer, but Flynn was a better shooter. Its a push.
Better from 3 and from the line...
but a worse shooter overall. Per Basketball-reference.com, Johnny shot .417 from the field, while Ramon shot .456. Johnny’s eFG% was a whole hundredth of a percentage point better (.457 to .456) though, so I can see how you might call that a push.
What the H!
Sorry Jonny. It just keeps slipping in there.
Defense and decision making
Sessions was a vastly better defender and he also ran the offense better. These things don’t show up in typical box score and production stats, but it’s the two major reasons why a lot of folks prefer Sessions to Flynn. It’s also why the team performed much better with Sessions in the game compared to Flynn.
by Rascal Flatts on Jul 19, 2010 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Sessions
If he goes and one of our two PGs is injured, who steps in?
I say we keep him for insurance. Hollins, though? see ya.
"Latrell Sprewell - feeding his family since 1992"
by WillistonCoyote on Jul 19, 2010 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd say
it’d be worth the risk (if only for salary reasons) to trade him away and sign somone off the SL squad (Pargo, Westbrook) to a minimum contract. Only scenario where it’d be regrettable is if both Flynn and Ridnour got injured.
by WhiteManCantWrite on Jul 19, 2010 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions
OK
"You must submit to supreme suffering in order to discover the completion of joy."
John Calvin
by WillistonCoyote on Jul 19, 2010 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Wayne Ellington baby!
I think it was Mplax last season that mentioned experimenting with Ellington at PG. Why the heck not!?
by Rascal Flatts on Jul 19, 2010 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Woo
hoo!
You're not letting natural selection take its course! You're like the guy who invented the seatbelt...
I should point out though
that I also recently mentioned playing Beasley at the 2…
You're not letting natural selection take its course! You're like the guy who invented the seatbelt...
by Mplax on Jul 19, 2010 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
If we're tanking, then sure!
Wayne’s a really poor ball handler..
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
The only problem I have with the trading of Sessions for cap space is that this team is really low on payroll as it is. We’re struggling to reach the minimum salary threshold right now. Unloading Sessions for Delonte West’s vanishing contract would only leave us further under that minimum salary limit. As for the question about having a 3rd string point guard that will take over if our first 2 go down, that’s what ten-day contracts are for. Plus, this team isn’t going to compete for the playoffs this year so losing a few extra games because of bad luck with injuries is something I doubt the front office is too concerned about.
I did watch all the summer league games
and while this former Iowan wrestling fan doesn’t understand the NBA as well as you folks, what I saw was a big f’ing mess. Less structured than college basketball and played at a pace reminiscent of a peewee league gone into foul mode. I think we kept Johnson out after that first game out of concern for injuries.
Too many marginal players flailing about trying to make the NBA. It was like Queen for a Day for jocks, with the grand prize being the end seats on the bench.
extremely ugly basketball
Horrible shot selection, more dropped passes than your average pickup game
True
It’s tough to cobble together a team made up of mostly undrafted free agents and fringe veterans. In addition, the refs call these games tight and call way more moving screens and travels than they ever do in real NBA games. In fact, I think I saw more illegal screen calls in this collection of summer league games that I have in my entire life of watching basketball. It was amazing.
by Rascal Flatts on Jul 19, 2010 6:28 PM CDT up reply actions
All of you who are critical of the Sessions-Hollins signings forget...
…that Kahn signed both BEFORE he hired Rambis.
Which is part of the reason
that I’m critical of the Rambis signing. Way to bring in a guy to run a system that doesn’t gell with any of your personel.
by TheFlingerofPoo on Jul 19, 2010 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions
If you are making coaching decisions
based on Sessions and Hollins, I think that you might be in bigger trouble. ;)
by Krotz the Wall on Jul 19, 2010 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions
True enough,
although Flynn and Jefferson and Rubio are all poor fits for the triangle. I hate how dogmatic this team is being about this system. Also, I hate that Sessions is being tossed around with Hollins and Kosta. Ramon deserves better. After all, he’s the best point guard on our team.
by TheFlingerofPoo on Jul 19, 2010 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Always with the triangle!
I am reaching the limit from hearing, " _ is a poor fit for the triangle." I think Rambis is devising an offense based on ball movement and cuts.
by aarendsvark on Jul 19, 2010 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions
It certaily looks like a running team.
He has some rabbits. Must be a reason.
"Latrell Sprewell - feeding his family since 1992"
by WillistonCoyote on Jul 19, 2010 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Flynn and Jefferson are certainly bad fits for a ball movement, motion offense, predicated on
outside shooting, passing, cuts, team game. Flynn and Jefferson are iso type players. I really don’t believe that Rambis is installing a triangle system that looks like the Jordan or Kobe triangle. Rather, I think we are seeing the beginning of a motion system that puts that ball into the hands of a distributor with excellent vision surrounded by shooters and bigs that can pass, and players that cause match up problems.
Flynn and Sessions are both solid PGs, and could be very good in the right situations. However, the FO isn’t planning either to be the team’s future starting PG. A trade is probably the best thing for Ramon. I have a feeling the Flynn will probably get traded shortly after Rubio agrees to come over.
A note on Jefferson and his fit for a running/motion team. The Wolves previous FO built a half-court team to feature Jefferson. They did a poor job building a team around a guy who was gifted at low-post scoring and grabbing a good share of rebounds. The moment that that concept got blown up, Jefferson as the building block of the Wolves and the shift to a running game, I think that Jefferson was always going to get traded. He doesn’t pass well enough, move enough, or defend well enough to justify paying him to play in a system that doesn’t feature his best style.
by Krotz the Wall on Jul 19, 2010 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions
This still doesn't explain
why this team, basically on input from one man, Kahn, left the half-court ‘smashmouth’ concept to go with a ‘running team’. Why didn’t they try to help big Al, more? Why draft and acquire players who are lost in a GM-coaching limbo? That’s what has happened to Al, Love, Flynn, Hollins, and others. All misused by the management in an attempt to create a team with a different ‘identity’. Apparently, we were so bad, in the minds of the new people, they thought nobody would care if we dropped from mediocre to truly horrible. No running team has won a championship since the showtime Lakers. And we don’t have Magic, Worthy or Kareem.
by ogishkemuncie on Jul 19, 2010 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions
This is a really good question. There seems to be an assumption from a lot of people that a running team in inherently better than a half-court team, but there isn’t really any evidence to back this up.
by Hallelujah Hollaback on Jul 19, 2010 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions
From
Run and space
“It seems like every time I look up, teams bearing down on a lone defender,” said an NBA assistant who is coaching his organization’s summer league squad. “Everyone in the league is pushing the ball, even with big men.” The trend isn’t new. Ever since the rules committee eliminated hand-checking on the perimeter, the NBA has evolved into a more guard-oriented league. The best way to enable those quick guards to achieve maximum performance? Get out in transition when given the opportunity and space the floor when you aren’t. “You have to have at least one mobile 4 or 5 who can run the floor, space the half court, be mobile enough to ‘hard show’ on a pick-and-roll and step out to at least 18 feet,” said another NBA assistant. “Otherwise, you’re dead.”
The era of teams built around guys like Big Al is dead. Along with upgrading the facilities to what’s modern in the NBA it appears as though Kahn and Rambis are doing the same with playing style/strategy.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
by biggity2bit on Jul 19, 2010 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
ps -
"You have to have at least one mobile 4 or 5 who can run the floor, space the half court, be mobile enough to ‘hard show’ on a pick-and-roll and step out to at least 18 feet," said another NBA assistant. "Otherwise, you’re dead."
Welcome to Michael Beasley.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
Good point. Thanks for the article.
I remember a Rambis interview where he said that Basketball
Operations wants to create an entertaining team that everyone
wants to see; an athletic team that’s exciting. What better then,
than to forge an up-tempo unit, like the Suns? All we need now
is to get us some PGs that have vision and control. Rubio?
Maybe Dragic? We don’t have the right Point at this juncture.
I see a lot of turnovers coming.
"Latrell Sprewell - feeding his family since 1992"
by WillistonCoyote on Jul 19, 2010 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions
I think the key here
Is that your running team has to be able to play half court defense too. That’s where the teams we think of as running teams in the last few years have failed.
by stuntmonkeys on Jul 19, 2010 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions
You'll have to ask Taylor that.
He brought in a guy with a running team vision, and probably the ability to cut costs. Part of that, I think, was the growing dissatisfaction of the slow, iso game. The team was bad, but it was also very boring. Oh yeah, it couldn’t defend either.
I think the realization was that the team wasn’t going to be a playoff team with Jefferson as the keystone, especially without being able to attract top FAs, and with Al’s contract. I think the idea then became to build an entertaining team, which might be more popular with ticket buyers.
I don’t know that Love is a bad fit for a motion offense. He is a good passer, has range to his shot, has good vision, plus he rebounds extremely well. Flynn? I don’t think we’ve seen the best of Flynn yet. I think last year was about trying to develop Flynn’s game. This year, with better shooters on the wing, and better athletes around him, we’ll see just what Flynn has for game.
Hollins was never anything other than a tryout sort of situation… an athletic 7 footer that had never played any extended minutes. Well, we got a good look at him last year. He could be an effective role player, but he’s not a player you’d ever even think about worrying if the system isn’t getting the best out of him… because his best won’t change the outcome of a game.
Heck, that’s the thing about the Wolves over the past several years, there hasn’t been a single player on the team great enough that you build a system around them. Currently, the Wolves are banking on Rubio being that singular talent, and you are seeing a team and system being put in place with him in mind, for the ball to be in his hands to unlock that offense. It is extremely risky. It could be great. It could implode with overwhelming suckitude.
by Krotz the Wall on Jul 19, 2010 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Pretty good backup to running
I seem to remember the Lakers had a pretty decent offensive post player when they weren’t able to score on the break.
But thinking of Kahn’s questionable draft moves, what has to be near the top is waiting a month to fire McHale which put the hiring of a coach after the draft. Except for Rubio, that draft was pretty much a loss… unless the triangle was just a facade to facilitate tanking.
by midlife crisis on Jul 19, 2010 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't know
Ellington’s a pretty good pickup. I’m not sure how to evaluate the Lawson deal other than to say that I guess it’s Lawson vs. Webster as players. FWIW Lawson’s been shopped lately, so it’s not like Denver is necessarily building around him in the future. Whoever said that Flynn is maddeningly close to being great and yet also so far from being respectable nailed it right on the head. Dude could be good or he could be bad. This next year will tell a lot. But even subtracting Flynn from the equation, Rubio and Ellington are about as good a return as I would expect from the draft – two players who’ll get time on more NBA teams than just ours.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
I think the idea to get away from the half-court smash-mouth style of play in favor of the running game was precipitated by K-Love. Our 2 best assets when Kahn arrived were Love and Jefferson. I feel like Kahn understood that the two didn’t make for a good pair and that each was suited to play a different style of basketball. Everybody had a good idea of Jefferson’s strengths and weaknesses and his ceiling as a player, but Love was still just scratching the surface of his potential. I think Jefferson’s knee injury was also a factor that went into the decision that he was the guy that should go. I’m of the opinion that Kahn knew he was going to be trading Jefferson from the moment he got here, but he had to rebuild some of his trade value last year. Now this summer comes along and he’s presented with two options: a) continue to rebuild the trade value that was decimated by a 2-year injury; or b) salvage what you can get for Jefferson and truly get on with developing the young nucleus of this team.
actually, you're wrong
Rambis was hired in August, 2009, Sessions signed in September
Minimum salary requirements
I believe I read recently from PoorDick that minimum salary requirements only need to be hit by season’s end…
Can you (PD) or someone expand on that notion a little further? With the latest word being we may trade for Delonte, I think it would be very insightful towards our future plans, assuming it could go one of 2 ways:
1) Trade for him, and flip him to a cost-cutting team, to get additional assets.
2) Cut him ourselves, for the cost savings.
I think #2 would have to signal some determination to make a splash at the deadline (I believe this was also noted by PD), which would be a very positive development…
I looked ahead to the open road, thought about the people and what they know, and wrote a book called "People Don't Know Nothin!"
3
Cut him ourselves, sign another Free Agent with the savings. Shaq would be fun to have around as a backup.
I'd love to be involved in that conversation...
So Shaq, you’re going to be our backup center… come in to give Darko a breather, bang a bit.
by Krotz the Wall on Jul 19, 2010 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Cost us too much to feed him.
"Latrell Sprewell - feeding his family since 1992"
by WillistonCoyote on Jul 19, 2010 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions
I guess it's a win/win
They can trade for him, and then either flip him again by August 3rd (the day his contract becomes guaranteed, or more likely, waive him and shave 4,000,000 off the payroll…
Or even keep him. He’d instantly be our best option at SG, and if his off-court issues got in the way, we could let him go next season.
If we go for Delonte
tell him to keep his guitar case at home.
"Latrell Sprewell - feeding his family since 1992"
by WillistonCoyote on Jul 19, 2010 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions
What?
and miss out on our own version of the Desperado henchmen?
Dude’s a super-hero. Speeding on a three-wheeled crotch rocket while carrying a 9, a magnum, and a pump-action shotgun in a guitar case is the stuff of legend.
Everyone take a breath.
He was only speeding
Because somewhere, in a town far away, someone needed him to mete out his own tough brand of vigilante justice.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
David Khan/Webber interview
I have been reading about the interview and everyone’s response to David Kahn’s “mana from heaven” comment. I just watched the interview and it seems pretty clear to me that Kahn was saying that coming to Minnesota was “mana from heaven” FOR DARKO, not for the Timberwolves. Kahn had been siting all the previous teams that Darko had played for and why things probably didn’t work out so well, then he states " with us, it was like mana from heaven." In that context, it would follow that he is making the comparison that he was in bad situations with other teams, either because of their system or lack of playing time and that with the Timberwolves, he would be able to play in a system and have the kind of minutes that would seem like a gift from God, hence “mana from heaven.”
I also did not think that Chris Webber was all that antagonizing. I think he was insulted by his perceived comparison to Darko and then obviously became incredulous of anything Kahn had to say after that. But his first question was legitimate and was said without any negativity in my opinion.
First-time poster, by the way. Love this site. Go Wolves!
Nice takes on the subjects
Can’t say I disagree with any of it. I was watching the game when it happened and didn’t think much of it at the time. But you can tell people hear what they want to hear, Including Chris Webber.
Yeah, but it WAS Webber's misconception. Kahn wasn't even going there (comparison
of ability). Webber was being a jerk.
"Latrell Sprewell - feeding his family since 1992"
by WillistonCoyote on Jul 19, 2010 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Does anyone know if Nemanja Bjelica is coming over this year?
I hope so…I think he would fun to let loose in D-League for a year.
by Timberwolf i.e. Albatross on Jul 19, 2010 5:01 PM CDT reply actions
Dunno, but you are right. I want that guy over here.
"Latrell Sprewell - feeding his family since 1992"
by WillistonCoyote on Jul 19, 2010 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions
After the draft I saw a report
That Bjelica thinks he’s coming over this year. But I also read a report that Kahn wants him in Europe for another year. So, in a nutshell, I have no idea.
by stuntmonkeys on Jul 19, 2010 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah
I think he’d be better off developing his game in Europe for now. With Wes, Beasley, and Love getting the majority of minutes at the 3 and 4, it’s hard to see where this guy would get minutes. I’d rather he play 20+ minutes per game in Europe than get a bunch of DNPs in the states. Plus he probably wouldn’t be willing to come over if he knew he’d be put down to the D-League for an extended time. He’d much rather be with a big league Euro club.
by Rascal Flatts on Jul 19, 2010 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Bjelica isn't comming for minimum 1 and probably 2 more years
He signed contract with Beneton, but is trying to be traded to Olympiacos (to work with coach Ivkovic who was one of the main reason for his development; Ivkovic as a coach of Serbian national team gave chance to Bjelica on last year Europian Championship).
And he needs 2 years anyway to become NBA-ready player.
I doubt it
but it would be a lot more beneficial to let him play in Europe for another year (or hopefully two).
You're not letting natural selection take its course! You're like the guy who invented the seatbelt...
This is old news TIFWIW
http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/06/28/wolves-may-keep-nemanja-bjelica-in-minnesota/
"Latrell Sprewell - feeding his family since 1992"
by WillistonCoyote on Jul 19, 2010 5:18 PM CDT reply actions
In depth trade analysis:
Sessions for the rights to pay $500,000 for nothing = %#@& no.
Sessions AND Hollins for the rights to pay $500,000 for nothing = Why’d we sign Ridnour?
Sessions AND Hollins AND a future second = now we’re getting somewhere.
You're not letting natural selection take its course! You're like the guy who invented the seatbelt...
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