Perspective on the Wolves offseason thus far - by Andy Thayer
by The big Deez on Jul 6, 2010 8:58 AM CDT
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My buddy Andy Thayer wrote this, and I could not have penned it better myself - enjoy.
Wolves Flop in Free Agency
Despite the summer of 2010 having one of the richest free agent crops in NBA history, the cap-rich Minnesota Timberwolves have managed to mess things up once again. I'm not even frustrated anymore; you can only describe my sentiments toward President of Basketball Operations David Kahn's job this summer as a hybrid of infuriated about the present state of affairs and utterly faithless in the future.
This year's free agent crop is, to say the very least, talented and deep. Sure, the Wolves probably weren't going to get a guy like LeBron James, Dirk Nowitzki, or Dwyane Wade -- but no one can tell me that someone like Carlos Boozer, Amaré Stoudemire, Ray Allen, or Rudy Gay wouldn't have listened if David Kahn had called with a max-level long-term offer. The Wolves had the assets to be a player in this year's market, and don't let anyone convince you otherwise.
The Timberwolves' front office worked diligently over the last couple of years to free up the necessary room under the salary cap to be a player in this summer's free agent smorgasbord, and all that hard work was squandered almost immediately. Remember all those terrible, uncompetitive games that we, as Timberwolves fans, were forced to watch last season because the Wolves traded away talented young players like Mario Chalmers and Ty Lawson for cap relief? Well, as it turns out, that was for nothing.
What the Wolves have done with their cap room is almost comical, and by comical, of course, I mean nauseasting and alienating to anyone who cares about the team. Upon the start of free agency on July 1st, Kahn immediately signed journeyman Darko Milicic to a four-year $20-million contract. Seriously, he couldn't have waited a couple days to see how the market was going to shape up? He had to lock up a guy that that flopped in Detroit, Orlando, and Memphis -- and a guy who openly admitted that he wanted to return home to Serbia to play Euro-league basketball – the first possible day that he could?
Milicic did show some flashes of mediocrity – and I mean that as a compliment – last year once the Wolves acquired him, but the Wolves were supposed to use all their cap room in this free agency period to improve their team, not to bring back the diseased pieces of last year's squad at inflated salaries. Seriously, $5 million per year? That's sixth-man money on a good team, not backup center money.
Now the Wolves are screwed. There isn't enough money left under the cap to sign a max-level player, and believe me, the Wolves would need to offer max-level money to court a decent free agent to come play with this mess of a roster.
The only hope left for the Wolves this summer is that they might be able to trade Al Jefferson to free up some cap room and then sign David Lee, who astoundingly seems interested in coming here. The problem with that scenario is that I'm not entirely convinced that Lee is better than Jefferson in the first place. Sure, Lee might be a step quicker on the defensive end, but there's something to be said for a big man that can put the rock in the hole, and Big Al can certainly do that. I'm always leery about trading for players who are coming from Mike D'Antoni's system, because their scoring and rebounding numbers are always inflated by his trademark "7 seconds or less" run-and-gun style. If you look at how guys like Shawn Marion and Kurt Thomas fell off the map once they left Phoenix a few years ago, you'll see my point. David Lee might fall into this category as well, and while he's always been a great rebounder, I don't know that you want to move the face of your franchise to get a player like Lee.
The Wolves seem to always be hiding behind the excuse that lucrative free-agents don't want to come here, but I feel like that's a complete cop-out. If the front office of this team ever built a core group of players that was ready for contention, I think free agents would have no problem considering Minnesota if they were offered a fair deal.
By making excuses, feeling sorry for themselves, and making rash decisions, David Kahn and the Timberwolves have quite possibly taken what was the worst roster in the NBA last season – and made it even more terrible.
Andy Thayer
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Lucrative free agents don't want to come here!
That’s a fact, not an excuse.
Wow.
Do you like this because he doesn’t have the facts right, or because the argument doesn’t make much sense?
He wanted to pay Ray Allen a max deal? Really?
Rudy Gay agreed to a max contract (right before coming here for a visit) so obviously Memphis was matching anything.
Amare would never come here. Boozer might if paid the max, but we already have Jefferson, why would we want Boozer?
I have lots of problems with Kahn’s decisions, but this argument is nonsense.
+1
We didn’t trade away Lawson and Chalmers for cap relief. We didn’t even trade them because we didn’t want them. They were both drafted for other teams (Denver and Miami, respectively). Not to mention we traded Lawson for….another first round pick! AKA another guaranteed salary. And Chalmers was a second rounder anyways, so he was non-guaranteed.
No legitimate points were made in this diatribe.
I like how Shawn Marion and Kurt Thomas "fell off" after leaving Phoenix
and that is all attributed to leaving D’Antoni. It couldn’t possibly be because they were also getting quite a bit older…
Actively looking for red flags since my 5th grade traveling team
and no longer playing with Nash
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jul 6, 2010 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions
Besides...
Marion was a stud before D’Antoni and Nash came to town.
Yet he wanted to go after amare whose numbers have also been inflated by the same system.
on that note, another thing I’ve noticed when looking Monta Ellis everyone talks about how is numbers are inflated because of the system that Golden state runs, but when talking about curry vs. Flynn this same basic fact is lost. Perhaps the real question is what would curry do were he not playing in golden state vs. what flynn would do were he playing in golden state?
+1
The Flynn Curry Debate is so frustrating. Curry is a different Player. Honestly a SG not a PG and all though we draft Rubio we still needed a PG for the year…so why not take Flynn who is rated the highest PG available and also rated as a better player than Curry?
by Timberwolf i.e. Albatross on Jul 6, 2010 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions
And by no metric
was Flynn the highest rated PG available, even discounting Curry.
Obviously,
by someones metric he was, even if it was only Kahn’s.
Timberwolves - NBA champs 2013!
(used with permission - Wolf in MO)
by frankenhoops on Jul 7, 2010 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions
System doesn’t change the fact that Curry is a better shooter, defender and assist man. Curry might not be a true point and his numbers may be bumped by GS’s system, but he’s was a much better player than Flynn was last year.
My ticket guy has tried to sell this to me as well. Does GS sytstem make Curry a better shooter? Defender?
The system excuse is worth an ounce of discussion, but that’s about it.
BTW…Monta’s numbers are inflated because he takes a lot of shots to get his points. Curry doesn’t. Same system, different efficiency.
Dear Andy Thayer ...
I think there should be something in science called the “reindeer effect.” I don’t know what it would be, but I think it’d be good to hear someone say, “Gentlemen, what we have here is a terrifying example of the reindeer effect.”
Sincerely,
Jack Handey
by ol' weird harold on Jul 6, 2010 9:39 AM CDT reply actions
Maybe the reindeer effect is any rant...
…against Kahn that is so bad that it makes Kahn look good, and causes Kahn’s detractors to defend him.
Kahn's is Andy Thayer!
He’s a genius after all, cleverly using the reindeer effect to his own advantage.
Not a Kahn fan, but this piece is absurd
Nobody can tell you that these guys wouldn’t have listened?
This is my favorite argument technique: proof by blatant assertion. Say it forcefully enough and it must be true!
We Are the Washington Generals
by Eric in Madison on Jul 6, 2010 10:07 AM CDT reply actions
It's like trying to tell people in grade school that you were cool too
“I swear I’m cool too, honest. Only stupid people don’t think I’m cool…are you telling me your stupid? There…I have just sucessfully proven that I am cool…so go suck it.” <-spoken by little Andy Thayer
To which every bystanders jaw has just hit the floor. After picking up said jaw, everyone mouths W…T…F. (TEP approved)
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jul 6, 2010 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions
Proof by blatant assertion:
“I’M NOT WEARING ITCHY PANTS!”
Nope, still not working.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
Nevermind
That players like Joe Johnson and Steve Nash continued to thrive outside of D’Antoni’s offense.
Poor Andy Thayer probably just wrote this in some e-mail
to his friend “The big deez”, thinking no one would ever see it, and now he’s getting trashed on a Wolves message board.
Actively looking for red flags since my 5th grade traveling team
It's a little unfortunate
I don’t think Andy was ready for prime time.
by Madsen's 3-Point Barrage on Jul 6, 2010 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Hee - exactly
Andy uses decent grammar and punctuation and it impressed Deez and he thought “say now, that’s pretty good stuff.”
No offense Deez or Andy. We’ve just been hashing this out for months now and anything not first rate sets us off pretty easily.
In case you want to reply to your friend:
His take on the 2nd tier of free agents was poor
- Gay got way overpaid
- Amare is talented offensively but not defensively and got a max contract with questionable health
- Ray Allen is solid veteran, but likely to have a dip in his production next year and doesn’t make sense for a club like ours building toward the future
- Carlos Boozer is a very solid, but unspectacular PF who duplicates the position of our two best players. (yes, you can say the same thing about David Lee)
His take on Darko’s contract was pretty “mainstream media” – it’s a contract that can be critiqued if Darko performs horribly, but for a 7 foot center in the league it’s pretty good, maybe even a slight bargain.
And finally his take on David Lee is right out of the mouths of most NBA analysts as well – the D’Antoni effect – meh, yeah, kinda obvious. But we look at pace adjusted stats here and the bigger issue is that he is a PF.
There were several legitimate criticisms of Kahn so far this summer, especially the drafting of Wes Johnson at #4, but your friend didn’t spot those.
I’m afraid what you have here is a friend who read some NBA columns and cobbled it together into an email he sent to his friends.
Now if you’d like the straight dope – read on here at CH. Also, it looks like Kahn does have some more deals up his sleeve this summer, so the we won’t really know his full plan or his ability to execute until we get to the end of summer.
I want it noted for the record
that at no time have I ever seen “Andy Thayer” and “The big Deez” in the same room at the same time.
Wow - lesson learned -
The piece from my friend Andy was written for a small town sports section here in Minnesota – obviously I should take more care in posting what I think may be relevant to this board – apologies.
thanks for the feedback, I will be sure to share it and hopefully it can lead to improved insight – nice to see there are so many people that actually still care about Wolves basketball, often it feels like a very small island that is losing people by the minute.
Patrick
You mean this was actually published as is?
Wow… I mean, I’m not going to apologize for the crap this article is taking because, no matter how relevant it is, it is going to be subjected to criticism as much as anything else written on here. Probably more so because it was published.
The article sounded more like a rant than an article that should be published in a sports section. Is he a columnist, I hope? He should also learn not to generalize everybody into one giant category of thought:
I mean nauseasting and alienating to anyone who cares about the team.
I was a helluva lot more upset with their use of assets than their use of cap space (which has a slight overlap).
He should also not make assertions about the roster, which he clearly knows little about, without backing them up:
and believe me, the Wolves would need to offer max-level money to court a decent free agent to come play with this mess of a roster
I’m sorry, Mr. Thayer, but no, I will not believe you. I’ll stop now and just leave it at the parts that really annoyed me. The article is rife with inaccuracies, I’ll leave it at that.
Rudy Gay: Feeding his family since 7/1/10
no prob
the problem (if you read all of our draft related posts) is that we are all burned out on the negativity. It’s just too much to bear. With all of the national crap that has been published with piss-poor fact checking, little flaws like that are just extremely frustrating. It just confirms to all of us that no one cares enough about the wolves to even consider fact checking.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jul 7, 2010 7:33 AM CDT up reply actions
There’s several things wrong with the piece that were already mentioned, but I actually agree with the general rationale.
Why did we need to sign Darko right away? Why are we so eager to commit to a guy who has never show any consistency as a good player despite 4 different teams giving him a shake? In discussions with my ticket rep, it seems pretty clear that part of the reason we didn’t take Cousins is because of our confidence in Darko. I think that any expectations for more than backup quality production out of Darko are just wishful thinking given his track record. Glad we used part of that to justify passing on a potential star.
We were sold on the promise of cap space and the draft and we used both of those major windows to land Wes Johnson, Lazar Hayward and spend almost all our money on Webster, Darko and Pekovic. With only $5 million in cap space left, most of what we do from here on out is going to be via a trade we could have done no matter how diligently we hoarded cap space. Isn’t anyone else frustrated that we used 2 years of cap clearing/hoarding and a full season of player development (i.e. tanking) to net Wes Johnson and 4 guys who should be backups on a good team?
Sure…it takes two to tango and all that, but that was a boatload of assets the last two years to assemble a roster so limited in terms of upside.
signing Darko early or late
is irrelavent. Short of waiving his bird rights, his cap hold would have eaten into our available cap space to sign anyone by a significant margin more than the contract he signed.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jul 6, 2010 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions
as to what we were sold
was and is a load of crap. Taylor was bleeding money and needed to restart. The process was so mangled, that it took this long. Taylor likely doesn’t want to end up in the same place in two years, so he is having Kahn make reasonable deals within certain guidelines to build a “solid” team and rely on luck to find a player to make us more than that.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jul 6, 2010 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Am I missing something here? Why would we be concerned about his cap hold? We renouce the rights and we get the cap space right? We can use the cap room we could use to sign anyone…including Darko himself if if there’s nothing else available.
there are so many ways to make all of this go down
that is makes my head hurt. Damn Stern and all his lawyers :)
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jul 7, 2010 7:34 AM CDT up reply actions
If you renounce a players rights
can you still resign him later? I thought not.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jul 7, 2010 7:35 AM CDT up reply actions
To answer one of your questions about signing Darko. We haven’t actually signed him yet. A deal has been agreed to in principle but nothing can be signed until the eighth. If James were to call Kahn and say he wanted to sign with us I don’t think Kahn would say “we would love to have you but we already told Darko we were signing him.”
by Achilles Fang 1 on Jul 6, 2010 12:34 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
True, but unless there’s a problem with a physical or something like that, it would be extremely poor form to back out of deal. Kahn would be roasted alive by agents and essentially shoot both his feet off for future dealings. Can you imagine a player backing out of a deal after it was agreed upon? Look at the fallout Boozer got when he bolted on the Cavs…and there was no public agreement there (it would have been illegal).
Didn't something like that happen with Turkoglu last year?
Don’t know the specifics, I just remember seeing on ESPN.com Hedo’s picture with a Blazers logo in the background like it was a done deal, and then he backed out.
Do we really want a 2nd tier max player?
Seems like a lot of the FA may re-sign with their old teams, anyways. LeBron is still in Cleveland, D-Wade is still in Miami, Joe Johnson has agreed to stay in Atlanta, Dirk Nowitzki signed on with Dallas, Rudy Gay stayed with Memphis, and Paul Pierce opted out, only to stay with the Celtics. Wade, Chris Bosh and Carlos Boozer are waiting to see what LeBron is going to do. They aren’t coming here, anyway.
Do we really want to commit to a 5 yr 100 mil contract? Last time we tried that, we had KG and that’s it. Kahn saw the writing on the wall. The big free agent class of 2010 is turning out to be all hype. There’s still a chance to do something good, once the marquee PF’s are off the board, and Big Al’s value skyrockets for teams who gutted their rosters.
Sorry but you hurt yourself when....
you say “look at wht happen to Thomas when he left the run and gun”
Why do I get the feeling that the Big Deez and Andy Thayer
Have a Andy Kaufman/Tony Clifton type relationship?
Kahn Has a Top Secret Plan that even he doesn't know about
by Son of Gerald Green on Jul 6, 2010 2:58 PM CDT reply actions
Let us pray...
That Andy Thayer is not announced as the next Wolves General Manager. Ugh, just a brutal post. Max out Ray Allen?
WOW
There is alot of temerity here. The Canabis braintrust has it all figured out. This author said what we all have felt, or feel. As a fading Wolves fan, there is much truth to what he wrote.
1. We are building the 1980’s version of the Celtics. Big, Goofy,unathletic, white boys with litte finesse. This worked back in 1980, but Man has evolved since then. Bigger , stronger, faster, more athletic. I am sorry but this would not work in todays game, it hasnt and it wont going forward.
I almost think the moves this organization makes are a premeditated action based on chasing away the local fanbase. Diabolical actually. We wont put up much of a fight when they decide to move the team to the deep south. The white only ballclub will fit in well downthere.
If there is another explanation, please enlighten me??? How else could we have such a horrible team & continue to move southward!
by PURPLEPUSSYEATER on Jul 6, 2010 3:30 PM CDT reply actions
True brother
can you really blame me? would you rather dine at a pink taco stand or watch the current state of the wolves????
My poiint exactly…..Honestly, I am a Viking fan, and the purple people eaters was taken!
by PURPLEPUSSYEATER on Jul 7, 2010 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions
This sounds very logical, Purplepussyeater
You are a man of deep reflection and thought. Able to say what we all feel, which is, of course, that the Timberwolves are interested in chasing away the fans so that Glen Taylor, a Minnesota native, can move the team to the deep south. Somewhere like Mobile, Alabama or Jackson, Mississippi—-basketball starved metropolitan cities that the NBA has targeted for relocation.
Khan’s moves so far reflect this plan, this plan that we all feel, or have felt. He has agreed to deals with Milicic and Pekovic and drafted Bjelica, three white people whose European upbringing ensures they will fit in really well in the deep south. All of us also feel, or have felt, that the drafting/acquiring of Flynn, Ellington, Johnson, Webster, Hayward, Hollins, and Prestes are all just clever moves to throw us off the trail of the diabolical plan that Kahn has concocted.
CH, do not be fooled by Kahn! Purplepussyeater is the one we should follow!
by Madsen's 3-Point Barrage on Jul 6, 2010 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Touxhe
Please don’t follow me! As I have no idea where I am going, and I fear I might get you lost….. As a die hard Viking fan, I must try to get excited about my Basketball team as the offseason for football gets long. I have been hanging on to the glimmer of hope that after numerous seasons of laughable performances & questionable moves, eventually I will see a “light”. Yet, as I scratch my head after yet another draft, and free agency I fear soccer is starting to look awfully appealing? And that freaks me out!
by PURPLEPUSSYEATER on Jul 7, 2010 1:03 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
No offense, man
But I was being sarcastic. I was pretty much mocking all that you wrote.
by Madsen's 3-Point Barrage on Jul 7, 2010 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
lol
I know u were…….I wrote it for boring entertainment. People get so intense on these blogs, its actually kinda sad. I would be willing to bet money, on the fact that more than 60% of the people on this site probably watch star treak too. Keep mocking me brother, I was merely trying to see what was new with the kittens so far. I would rather read about news from you , then the idiots from the papers getting paid to write dribble!
Peace
by PURPLEPUSSYEATER on Jul 7, 2010 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions
I do not mock
Enthusiasm for the team, or a desire to not take everything so seriously. However, the “all white team” joke is a really tired one is all, and one not based in any sort of evidence. I do not aim to attack you personally, I’m just bored with that storyline.
by Madsen's 3-Point Barrage on Jul 8, 2010 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions
No Max Players
The Wolves would have made a horrible mistake to sign anyone to a max contract. There is no reason to be tied up with a big contract when we are just trying to get our stuff together. Very poor analysis of the off season.
Holy Bat Guano Batman,
This is the most absurd piece of rubbish I’ve read today. Would any of those players joined the Wolves as currently constructed? And would you really give a max contract to Gay, Allen and Boozer?!? I sure am glad YOU aren’t our GM/POBO.
Timberwolves - NBA champs 2013!
(used with permission - Wolf in MO)
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