David Kahn: An Appreciation
by Minneapleseed on Jul 9, 2010 4:31 PM CDT
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PrintOne of the more repeated storylines in the Association goes something as follows:
“The Minnesota Timberwolves are an inept franchise that is stuck in a miserable market that no one wants to play in and are run by a bungling POBO who should never have been given the job in the first place.”
I expect this from the numerous hacks who cite unnamed “sources”, the uninformed public in general and even sportsguys who have a very obvious agenda. But to see it repeated ad nauseum by otherwise intelligent and level headed CanisHoopers has been a difficult pill for this reader to swallow. As Timberwolves fans, we have lived through the reigns of Trader Jack and Traitor McHale. We watched a top 10 all time NBA talent lay the groundwork for last nights “Decision” and suffered each summer as our FO spent more time casting lines into Minnesota lakes than they did trying to land a big NBA fish. Now, we have a guy that is willing to put in the hours, take accountability for his actions, and is willing and able to recruit talented people with no prior connection to the franchise to help him and we still aren’t satisfied… WTF PEOPLE!!! All we can really ask of our FO is to work hard, be active and agile, and put the franchise in the best position possible to utilize assets to a maximum. Which of these traits has David Kahn not shown?
Sure, David Kahn may come across as a bit of a used car salesman, he doesn’t have a golden resume nor the media backing of his peers and I understand that people such as Tom Penn and Kevin Pritchard and others (especially those trained in the dark arts of statistics) have sparkly backgrounds and proven track records (a quick aside: before the devout members of the church of advanced stats attempt to convert me, I understand the need for and enjoy reading from the gospel of APBRmetrics, but I think this tells only part of the story of the rise of NBA player and there has to be a medium between the “eye test” and the “stats test”), but as we have seen with the disintegration of the Portland FO, an outsiders perspective never gives the full story of the inside workings.
Around these parts, the pater familia of the new breed of NBA GM is Sam Presti. Since OKC and Minneapolis aren’t exactly the first cities to pop up on NBA wish lists and being that Mr. Presti holds a near cult like following amongst CH followers, I thought it might be fun to compare and contrast the first full year and following summer of Presti running the franchise versus that of our own David Kahn.
Sam Presti is hired in June of 2007 and inherits these assets.
He then makes the following major moves:
Drafts Kevin Durant
Trades Ray Allen and draft rights to Glenn Davis to Boston for Wally Szerbiak, Delonte West, and the draft rights to Jeff Green
Trades Rashard Lewis to Orlando for a $9 million trade exception that was then traded to Phoenix for Kurt Thomas and 2 future first round picks
Trades draft rights to Carl Landry for future second round pick
SuperSonics record 2007/08: 20-62
Year 2
The Thunder make their first appearance in OKC:
Drafts Russell Westbrook
Drafts Serge Ibaka
After 1-12 start P.J. Carlesimo is fired and Scott Brooks is promoted
Signs Nenad Krstic to 3 year $15.58 million deal
Trades 2009 first round pick for Thabo Sefolosha
Thunder record 2008/09: 23-59
David Kahn is hired in May of 2009 and inherits these assets.
He then makes the following major moves:
Trades Randy Foye and Mike Miller to Washington for the draft rights to Ricky Rubio
Drafts Jonny Flynn
Trades draft rights of Ty Lawson to Denver for future first round draft pick
Drafts Wayne Ellington
Trades Sebastian Telfair, Craig Smith, Mark Madsen for Quentin Richardson who is waived
Hires Kurt Rambis as head coach
Trades Brian Cardinal for Darko Milicic and cash considerations
Timberwolves record: 15-67
Year 2
Drafts Wesley Johnson
Trades Ryan Gomes and draft rights to Luke Babbit for Martell Webster
Trades #23 and #56 for #30 and #35 picks
Drafts Lazar Hayward
Drafts Namanja Bjelica
Signs Darko Milicic to 4 year $20 million contract
Signs Niko Pekovic to 3 year $13 million contract
Trades future second round pick and right to swap first round picks for Michael Beasley
Timberwolves record: TBD
So far, to my eye, Presti holds one very distinct advantage over David Kahn; Sam Presti lucked into Kevin Durant in his first year on the job and voila, there is the franchise player to build around. Had the Blazers listened to echoes from the past and, well, passed on another partially broken big man for a potent scoring wing, the Sam Presti tale perhaps deviates from its yellow brick road to GM glory before it even begins… Anywho. There is one glaring mistake in the beginning of the Presti career arc and that is the hiring of P.J. Carlesimo. Presti showed he has the ability to admit a mistake and correct it when he hired Scott Brooks. A risk to be sure, but since Presti made the decision, the narrative goes that the hiring was a brilliant move by a brilliant young GM, and to be fair it has proven to be just that. In comparison, there are two big question marks in Kahns first year of maneuvering. The first is delaying the hiring of a head coach until after the draft. This is not unprecedented in the NBA, but far from ideal. It has been suggested that the first mistake directly led to the second which is the drafting of Jonny Flynn over Steph Curry. The debate of Curry vs Flynn has been had, and I see no need to rehash here… Call it a mistake (although I am not convinced it is a franchise crippling mistake) and let’s move on. To be fair, David Kahn has shown he also has the ability to admit his errors and correct them with the hiring of Tony Ronzone before this years draft.
What I am getting at here is that Presti and the Thunder didn’t make the jump to playoff level contenders until the third year. Building up to the playoff appearance, Presti acquired assets in the form of numerous draft picks in the 2009-2011 drafts and expiring contracts that will provide the team the ability to keep their young core together for the foreseeable future. But again, the big leap to the playoffs wasn’t made until his third season in charge. The first two seasons under Presti, the Thunder were terrible.
Essentially the Thunder roster is built around the #2 (Kevin Durant), #3 (James Harden), #4(Russell Westbrook), and #5 (Jeff Green) picks in three drafts. Presti supplemented the roster with a mid level contract to a 25 year old Euro big (Nenad Kristic) and a long, athletic 25 year old perimeter player (Thabo Sefolosha).
Going into David Kahn’s second year, the Timberwolves have acquired numerous draft picks and after moving Al Jefferson (assumption at the time of writing) the Wolves will have ample cap space to either keep their young players or go after the elusive “BIG NAME” free agent that so many in Wolvesdom have been pining for. They will (potentially) be built around the #2 (Mike Beasley), #4 (Wes Johnson), and two #5 picks (Ricky Rubio and Kevin Love) in three drafts (only 2 of these that Kahn has been directly involved in). Kahn supplemented the roster with 2 below mid level contract Euro bigs (Darko Milicic and Niko Pekovic) and a long, athletic 25 year old perimeter player (Martell Webster).
I guess what I’m getting at is that groupthink is prevalent in the world of sports fandom. What Would Presti Do seems to be the common theme amongst the Hoopus crowd and when comparing just the maneuverings of the two, one could maybe argue that David Kahn IS following the Sam Presti blueprint minus lucking into the franchise player. Maybe it is time for those closest to the team to start changing the narrative and judge the POBO on his merits instead of what the media or a perhaps disgruntled FO insider thinks of him. Time will tell if the decisions made were right or not, but let’s not just assume the worst because then we aren’t any better than those who live in the echo chamber of mass media.
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Simply...
trying to bring some positive acknowledgment to what has gone down with Kahn so far. This franchise gets beaten with the “inept franchise” stick enough, I figured the narrative has to change somewhere… Might as well be with the fans who put in so much time discussing the team.
by Minneapleseed on Jul 9, 2010 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Look, I'm just going by what David Kahn told us
when he laid out his Windows of Opportunity. Through two drafts, a trading deadline, and one full season and the biggest part of a second season of free agency, he has yet to add a certified, bonafide NBA starter to the team, much less anyone approaching an All Star. Worse yet, he’s allegedly trying to trade the only legitimate starter left on the team for an expiring contract—and is so far unsuccessful.
Maybe Wes might be a solid starter, or better. Maybe the Darko reclamation project will be successful. Maybe Rubio will not only come over in a year or two, but be spectacular. But so far, David Kahn’s failings not only go far beyond a lack of lottery luck, but don’t even meet the expectations he set for himself.
he has yet to add a certified, bonafide NBA starter to the team, much less anyone approaching an All Star. Worse yet, he’s allegedly trying to trade the only legitimate starter left on the team for an expiring contract—and is so far unsuccessful.
Martell Webster: 49 Games Started for a Playoff Team
Michael Beasley: 78 Games Started for a Playoff Team
So if these guys were so great
why were they available for the 16th pick, and cap space?
Don’t get me wrong, I’m fine with the moves. I just don’t think Kahn deserves a whole lot of hosannahs for what he’s done. So far.
Because for once we got lucky.
If Miami hadn’t had the tool three fall into their laps Beasley wouldn’t have gone anywhere (at least not for nearly as cheap as he went).
If Pritchard hadn’t been out the door in Portland I don’t think we would have gotten Webster for what we did either. Kahn capitalized on the fluidity of the NBA and I think should get credit for it.
Bizarre logic
You put down Beasely and Webster as they surely can’t be more valuable than the assets used to acquire them, but this implies that the Wolves only had 3 shots to acquire the talent you believe Kahn promised you. #4 Pick, Free Agent, or Trade. I understand people like Cousins over Johnson but forgive me for not being able to say with certainty that this pick was a failure before either have a played a game in even the summer league.
This leaves us with Trades and Free Agency. Free agents weren’t drawn in by KG and McHale, they sure as heck aren’t going to be drawn in with Kahn and a 15 win roster, so now we are just down to trades.
What legitimate starter / All Star has been available on the trade market that would pass the PD hosannah test?
Sorry.
Show me any objective source that lauds David Kahn’s management skills. You know, if it looks like a duck, and sounds like a duck . . .
This is...
the thinking I was talking about… Just because the media says it is doesn’t make it so…
I mean Forbes would be considered a pretty objective source and who did they consider the best GM in the NBA…
Hollow argument here.
by Minneapleseed on Jul 9, 2010 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Just a lot...
of bitterness. Can’t blame them, I love Timberwolves basketball as much as anyone, but it’s time to stop whining and being little girls, it is what it is, Kahn’s here, there’s no guarantee Cousins will be better than Johnson, especially with the type of team we want to build. Luke Babbitt is even more unproven than Webster and will most likely never be able to even defend one position adequately, where as Webster has the potential to be a lock down defender at two positions. There are many more good players who are athletic than say Paul Pierce, a guy lacking athleticism, but has that uncanny ability to put the ball in the hoop. For every “Brandon Roy” you have ten “Adam Morrisons”. Giving a 7’ Center that has skill and a pretty decent BBIQ at $5M per is not a bad move, the only reason the media hates it is because of where Milicic was drafted and they’re constant negativity concerning Kahn’s moves, nothing more, he has talent. Drafting Flynn over Curry hurts, but as said above, it’s not a franchise crippling move-ie: Foye over Roy. Yes, it looks as if Flynn doesn’t nearly have the BBIQ Curry has, but he still is a far superior athlete, and at 21 years old, that BBIQ will only get better with experience. The great thing is is that we have actual NBA talent now, I can’t tell you how many people I’ve told that too, we seriously had 5 or 6 players last year that got minutes that will probably never play on an NBA team again, we can only get better.
by NorthernLights666 on Jul 9, 2010 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Kahn has done a good job managing
Hiring Rambis and Ronzone — those are things entirely under Kahn’s control, not subject to ping pong balls or highly subjective character issues. They were good moves. Kahn gets full credit.
On personnel decisions, since Rambis & Ronzone have been here, my strong impression is they are the ones with real input. That is another credit to Kahn — under McHale, it was done by gut, and sometimes he got some bad walleye for lunch.
On trading and building assets, Kahn has been restrained in paying contracts and prolific in gathering assets. GOod management, IMHO.
PD, you fault Kahn for not getting a legitimate starter. My take is that this is a positive. Rather than paying $$ for proven players, the team is building via young guns and rookies. I don’t want a team made up of known players whose trajectory will be down.
I think Kahn is managing well. Kudos to Kahn.
Yes, not screwing up in a major way
is Kahn’s biggest accomplishment so far.
Of course, to pay $$ for players, he’d have to have Taylor’s permission to do so. I don’t see any evidence that he has that freedom, so again, it’s like saying your ten year old kid is awesome for not crashing your car, even though you don’t let him drive.
I get that Kahn is hamstrung by Taylor’s penny-penching (and I don’t blame Taylor for that attitude, by the way). And I certainly understand that the guy can only use opportunities that in part depend on the other teams involved.
But to give him an “atta boy” for first bragging about all the assets at his disposal, all the picks, all the expiring contracts, all the young players, how hard he’s working, how he knows Larry Bird, and then ending up with possible slight improvements at the 2 and 3, Love starting at the 4, and Darko for a whole season instead of just the 2 and 29 run he led the Wolves to—that’s ludicrous.
What exactly are the proper standards by which to judge a GM? It must be better than the Western Conference Finals, since McHale is roundly and routinely hammered here. If something better than that is what you expect out of Kahn, I think you’re going to be even more disappointed in him than I am.
Why can't we judge him honestly?
Why can’t we say he had a shaky start, he talked a lot at the beginning of this summer about how much the team was going to be a major player (but hasn’t been so far), had a draft that many of us question, but he seemingly is doing better as the summer goes along?
Lord we set the bar so low around here. We’re a 15 win team in a state most media people think is next to Idaho, of course they’re going to make fun of the team. Who gives a damn? Here’s what the team can do – have a clear plan (which I am starting to see some semblance of) and start winning more games. And don’t let Bill Simmons or Adrian at Yahoo (whatever his last name is) have such an effect on your life
Summer League is irrelevant unless it validates my opinion
by Son of Gerald Green on Jul 9, 2010 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions
I think the answer to this..
…lies in one of his biggest flaws: he needs to either shut the hell up or develop a consistent set of talking points. It’s not Simmons’ or Woj’s fault that the Wolves’ POBO and marketing team sold season tickets for the past 2 years on the promise of free agent money and bringing in 3 significant starting level players (go re-read the Chris Wright interview we did). It’s not anyone else’s fault that he’s gone from saying (on video) that “we got our guy” after the Flynn pick to telling rooms full of season ticket holders that “we really wanted Evans all along” sometime after it became obvious that ‘Reke was going to win ROY. It’s nobody else’s fault that he said this draft was a 3 player affair on the day before they got the 4th pick in the lotto. These guys didn’t set the bar low, as anyone in the lower bowl can tell you in the personal pitch they got from the team about cap space, free agency, and all of those draft picks.
He’s not imploding but I think an honest assessment of his body of work is still going to contain more bad than good at this point. He’s had 2 drafts with 5 first round picks and all he has to show for it is Wes Johnson and Jonny Flynn. He took Flynn in what was considered to be a PG heavy draft and Johnson in what he himself called a wing heavy draft. I’m not optimistic that he was able to get the BPA in either situation.
He’s quickly running out of options to cash in on the team’s considerable assets (most of which were accumulated with McHale still in tow, btw). He didn’t improve upon the team’s pre-Kahn cap space in any sort of meaningful way that would have brought them a player their marketing team was telling all the season ticket holders about. Rubio is still in his back pocket (and I think that’s his best move, and I think he will be here eventually), but he’s done a good job signing 2 Euro centers to contracts worth less than $10 mil/year in a crazy spending off season and he jumped on Miami’s willingness to part with salary to build around an abnormal (and historical) NBA event. At the end of the day, I think his shortcomings in the draft, and his willingness to tell whoever is in front of him whatever it is he thinks they want to hear in order to feel good about the team are going to be the obstacles he needs to overcome. His eye for talent and his ability to keep talking when he should keep his yap shut are going to be this team’s biggest long term problems.
BTW and FWIW, I enjoy having a POBO who talks as much as Kahn does. For entertainment purposes, it’s fantastic. If I were running his communications staff or if I were in the basketball operations department, I’d be horrified.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 9, 2010 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Agreed, recked, thumbed-up
You’ve expressed my thoughts much better than I could.
(Now, there are some issues I’m having with my wife that I would like you to spin for me—)
here is where we...
See things different… The marketing arguement isn’t fair, I was told “there is no way KG gets traded, we are going to sign a big name to come help him” for my ticket pitch a few years back, how did that turn out? Do I hold that against Kevin McHale? No they were trying to sell seats, my bad for believing a salesman…
As far as the “we got our guy” vid, this seems like revisionist history… My memory tells me that was the response to getting Rubio, not Flynn (the love fest for Flynn and the Kirby Puckett comparisions took things too far, but nothing new in the world of spin that exists after draft day).
To be fair on the draft picks, he has Flynn, Johnson, Ellington, Hayward and Martell Webster plus the Rubio rights to show for it… Let’s not discount (or overvalue for that matter) players before they even play a minute.
I’m not trying to say everthing done has been a master stroke, but it seems like the guy hasn’t been given a chance since day 1 and there is something about this that just doesn’t sit well with me.
I’m just asking for the CH community to lead the charge in changing the narrative about the Timberwolves. Give credit when due and don’t jump the gun and assume the worst. Ask yourself this, if Presti had made the exact same moves, would you have reacted the same as you did when Kahn made them?
Just sayin…
by Minneapleseed on Jul 10, 2010 4:25 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Hmmm...
I’m very curious if you’re aware of your clear GM evaluation logic flaws or if your beyond evident distaste for Kahn has lead you to subconsciously convince yourself that what you’re saying is fully valid.
Very interesting psychology taking place here among Wolves fans…even the best and brightest…
The Dickface Cobra
by THE DFC on Jul 10, 2010 8:41 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
It's called the mirror test
DeceptaKahn gets credit for fogging up a mirror held beneath his nose. At this rate, 15-wins as far as the eye can see.
Here are some reasons:
1. The Heat just signed an All Star SF and PF (perhaps you’ve heard)
2. They needed cap space to add complementary pieces
3. Only a select few teams had the cap space required
4. Of those teams, the Wolves are desperate enough to try him
Are you disappointed that Beasley’s coming to the Wolves, or are you disappointed that (so far) there isn’t a better player coming to the Wolves?
Don’t get me wrong—since a lot of the cap space that was needed to complete this deal was already in place before Kahn came on board, I don’t think he deserves a ton of applause for agreeing to take on Beasley. In fact, it’s a condemnation of Kahn’s skills and accomplishments that this move counts as a reason to get excited around here.
But at less than $5 mm with only one year guaranteed, Beasley is an extremely low risk with a potentially very high reward.
Actively looking for red flags since my 5th grade traveling team
by TimAllen on Jul 9, 2010 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I would argue...
That he has met the plan he laid down…
It is the fans impatience that has led to the view that he is failing… There are still windows there, he hasn’t blundered away picks or signed players to albatross contracts… The franchise is taking chances on player development… The roster is more appealing this year than last…
I’m not sure “I will sign an All Star” was ever promised or was even a likely possibility this season or last.
From where I sit, progress is being made and there is no need to bash a man that is working to make our experience better.
by Minneapleseed on Jul 9, 2010 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly
I never heard Kahn promise an all-star. He promised good players, we are getting those. The way our roster looks compared to last year and the year before I do think Kahn deserves some credit. Or at least to be left alone by the media and nay-sayers.
Yes, that's true.
(And by the way, not only is it good to have you back here, but this was a well-done post)
I’m all for throwing these guys out there, and seeing what happens. But random chance is all that Coin Flip Kahn has going for him.
Thanks...
I gotta admit, I have missed commiserating with the CH crowd.
Agreed on the random chance, but at least Kahn is willing to flip the coin instead of putting it back in his pocket like you know who.
by Minneapleseed on Jul 9, 2010 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions
solid writeup
Kahn definitely deserves two full seasons before we start mobbing the Target Center.. Anyways, we may need to be terrible again this year to keep our top 10 protected pick. So don’t get hopes too far up there – we might see “inexplicable” rotations at some point this season as well.
when they hired Kahn they told me...
That unicorns would be flying at Target Center. That Kahn would use the incredible accumulation of first round draft picks and 2010 free agent money to good effect, and a little pony would be delivered to my driveway.
I would love to be euphoric, exuberant, etc.
But we got this 15-win record and a boatload of prospects and unproven talent.
Come on, Kahn, make me euphoric. I’m dying out here.
Say, was this post ghost-written for Kahn?
He doesn’t seem to be doing much else in his fortified bunker beneath Target Center.
Ha...
I rarely post and I really have enjoyed the commentary on this site the past few years. I was just sick of hearing all this negativity towards people who have done little to deserve the vitriol…
We need to be responsible for forming our own opinions and it just feels like David Kahn is getting the playground bully treatment… I figured I would try to be the cool kid who stands up for him.
by Minneapleseed on Jul 9, 2010 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
He may have drafted the ROY
Wes could be all that, and then we’ll be singing Kahn’s praises. Wall is already injured, plus he’s playng for Flip Saunders. I’m always optimistic, until right about November 7th, and it starts sinking in that the so called experts knew what they were talking about. Kahn always said it’s a 2-3 year plan, and we’re barely halfway there. I’m willing to give him the benefir of the doubt, and am looking forward to seeing the team we field this year. Good analysis, something that needed to be said.
so, you're looking for last minute
“hail Mary’s” from InspectaKahn? Cause he is closing out his second year of summer drafts and free agencies.
I hate to tell you this but most black people outside of minny
think that this place is cold and nothing to do. I know I am black and when I when I go around the USA the 2 things they ask me are how cold does it get and how many black people live there. its a fact many of you guys dont understand this part.
Couldn't Be More Right
I’m a white man living in Richmond, VA (originally from minneapolis) and almost everybody here thinks Minnesota is a very cold and boring place year round. Some people remember that the Mall of America may or may not be there. There is also plenty of talk that all “yankees” (aka northerners) hate black people so I get plenty of that as well (even though my wife isn’t white. When these young people grow up hearing that it can be pretty hard to convince them otherwise.
I hate to tell you this but I've lived in 15 of those 50 states
Minnesota is by far the best one.
As for cold, I can dress for it better than I can strip naked in PHX and not sweat like crazy.
I hate to tell you this but half the NBA is is northern climates.
I hate to tell you this but I’m not into self pity. NBA players rarely live in the off-season in the same location they play at and during the season they travel extensively or take the skyway to Target Center.
During my time in the military..
…I used to get all sorts of crazy questions about Minny from everyone who lived south of I40. It was almost like it was another planet. They thought the Twin Cities had only a couple hundred thousand people and that people had to put chains on their tires to go out driving in the winter. The movie Fargo was the biggest exposure a lot of people had to the state. That being said, as someone who has spent a significant amount of time in the I40 corridor from Knoxville to OKC, Minny is a completely different living experience than what most people are accustomed to down here (I’m in OKC right now). I like living in Minny but if I had my druthers I’d move back to Tennessee in a heartbeat, and one of the main reasons for doing so would be weather, followed by some cultural things that I just enjoy about the south.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Yea, Tennessee is nice
I remember going through pilots training at American Airlines simulation center and I sat down with a cadre of Samoans (we had just expanded our service in Hawaii). The Samoans asked me, “say, you’re from Minnesota, what do you all do there?”
I patiently explained to them that we all sit around an open camp fire and crew whale blubber. (I had seen that Eskimos on the Northern fringes used to do that).
The joke was on me. They actually believed me. Aloha!
There's always a but...
Nobody wants to live in Utah either (and I mean really, SLC?). They are able to do ok because the team works well.
The same can be said for the Vikings and Twins. Granted the twins best two players come from the north, but the rest of the team is populated with pretty talented players from wherever they happen to be. Same with the Vikings. All things being equal, someone would likely prefer another team, usually the team in their hometown. However, things are never equal with the basketball teams, and that’s what we have to work on. We can’t attract free agents because our team stinks and we have a culture of losing.
…well, enough talk, I have to go winterize my house, September will be here before you know it.
by midlife crisis on Jul 10, 2010 4:36 AM CDT up reply actions
Maybe it's like the character question....
….in reverse for players that may want to come here. I know I wouldn’t want to go to the cold city if I had the choice between two similar franchises and one of them was near the ocean.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
This is the best thing I read on canis so far
kahn is not that bad of a GM. it it’s harder to win in place like minnesota. How many times did we sign a big free angent in any sport other then football. Hell we cant even keep our high school players basketball and football players home to play at he the UofM. Harrison Barnes is high school is 3 hrs away but he want to go to UNC.
Presti made a non-obvious pick
and got Westbrook. Kahn made a non-obvious pick and got Flynn. That’s the difference for me. He still may prove to have been correct about this year’s draft, but so far he’s missed on Flynn and Hollins, with a minor hit on Ellington. Just about everything else is yet to be determined. (You can put Flynn in that category if you insist.) He needs to improve his batting average.
by Madison Dan on Jul 9, 2010 6:48 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
I still think Presti might have been better off with Lopez
And he passed on Rubio for Harden. Don’t get me wrong, he’s assembled a good team for those carpet-bagging bastards, but a whole lot of that is getting someone as good as Durant.
I'm glad to have Rubio's rights
but Harden actually played for OKC, so it’s mighty hard for me to count that against Presti. It’s not like I think the man is perfect, or that Kahn is a total failure, but if this year doesn’t go a lot better for the Wolves we should all call for his head. The verdict is still out, but I’ve stopped giving him the benefit of the doubt, which I did give him last year.
by Madison Dan on Jul 9, 2010 7:33 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
IF Flynn turns out to be as good as Harden...
…is Kahn as good as Presti?
Except for the ability to cause pong pong balls to fall, of course.
Nobody ever talks about this.
Is Westbrook-Harden-Durant really better than Rubio-Durant-Lopez?
I don’t think so.
Westbrook..
…basically said he would spaz out if they drafted Rubio.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Curry was the obvious pick.
Or maybe DeRozan, for his position. Pretty much no one saw the Flynn pick coming right after we took Rubio. Westbrook was similarly surprising. In my opinion, one of those calls has worked out better than the other. And rightly or wrongly, I think GMs take a lot more heat when they miss on “unconventional” picks rather than on the consensus BPA.
by Madison Dan on Jul 9, 2010 10:55 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I’m surprised Kahn isn’t getting more credit at CH for the apparent decision to commit to Love over Al. This was a hot topic for most of the last year with the majority (including SnP and many of the more active posters) siding strongly with Love. While nothing is done yet, Kahn doesn’t seem to be getting any love for committing to Love over Al.
Good point.
I’ve been really excited about that development, but I don’t think it will really sink in until the season starts and Love is starting. It seems obvious that Al is out the door, but there seems to be a new trade rumor involving Love popping up every couple of days as well.
Very well written...
I still am a Kahn believer. I think his open style of running a team is earning him respect from players and executives throughout the league. He does exactly was he says he is going to do. He trades for a player and is very upfront with his intentions for that player whether he plans on keeping them, cutting them or trading them on as an asset. He has conducted himself as professional throughout his tenure and does not waver in his decisions no matter how they are viewed by a judgemental media. Kahn also has tried to learn from other succsesful franchises like stock piling players overseas (S.A. Spurs) and a coach to run the triangle (any Phil Jackson coached team). I am still drinking the Kool Aide that Kahn is serving up and I think when Rubio comes over next year he will silence alot of his critics.
Go Kahn!
by S-Dot on Jul 9, 2010 8:25 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Kahn definitely deserves credit for making a lot of good moves
with of course a couple clunkers. But the pressure is now on. He needs to turn all of these extra parts into a good/great starter. Something like Brewer and Beasley for a legit starting SG making close to $10 million per year. I sort of wonder if Iggy is going to find a way to Minnesota. Something like Brewer, Beasley, and Hollins for Iggy. Not saying it is an even trade, but Philly might do it for salary relief and to open up playing time for Turner.
Excellent points.
I’m not even sure that’s a good deal for Philly, or that they would do it. But if Kahn can turn several mediocre players/picks/contracts into one young player who is considered a top 25 overall—even top ten at his position—I’ll give him all the credit he would so richly deserve.
Don't drink
Iggy is not going to be traded. Coach Collins is planning to build the team around him. He said so two days after he was named Philly coach.
Now, here’s your unicorn for your efforts.
Don't drink?
Well there’s the problem. Everybody could use a cold one during these Kahntentious times.
I looked ahead to the open road, thought about the people and what they know, and wrote a book called "People Don't Know Nothin!"
At the end of the day
Kahn should be judged by the ultimate arbiter:
Wins v. Losses
After two drafts and two free agencies (plus the All Star Break), it’s time to evaluate the kudos bestowed to him beginning this upcoming season.
Wins and losses
works for me. Keep in mind though that he’s said all along we’re still gonna suck this year. After 3 years of play with Kahn’s team we can judge how well or poorly he’s done.
I'm sticking to it
if we’re building a young nucleus like OKC, we need to trade Jefferson for one of these playmaking SGs:
Andre Iguodala
OJ Mayo
Monta Ellis
Eric Gordon
James Harden
by NorthernLights666 on Jul 9, 2010 11:53 PM CDT reply actions
Any one of those other than Ellis,
and I’ll get “David Kahn is AWESOME!” tattooed across my daughter’s back.
Other than
Iggy Monta is better than everyone else on that list, assuming the Warriors stay healty, they’re gonna be competitive.
Fair enough
but when Monta was playing next to Baron Davis he was great, Mayo has potential but Gordon and especially Harden haven’t shown much, Ellis is actually a very underrated defender.
To Be Determined.....
I can’t give him credit for a move that hasn’t given us anything other than hope and dreams. Is Rubio ever gonna come here? Can Rubio hang with the likes of CP3, D Williams, Billups, Kidd, or Rondo? Will he fit in the triangle? There is too many questions left to be answered regarding Rubio, for blind faith.
This post reminds me of 12 Angry Men
Minneappleseed, you’re doing a fine Henry Fonda impression, and the post is appreciated.
I looked ahead to the open road, thought about the people and what they know, and wrote a book called "People Don't Know Nothin!"
Draft versus Signings
My feeling is Kahn has done poorly on drafts so far but has been quite good at picking up the occasional player like Sessions, Darko and Beasly and he hopefully did very well in the Foye and Miller for Rubio swap.
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