Wolves Updates 8/11
Team releases schedule, Love feels more appreciated by U.S. Team than Wolves, ESPN predicts Wolves to be worst in NBA and more
From Kent Youngblood/Star Tribune:
The 2010-11 Timberwolves schedule was released Tuesday, and here is a by-the-numbers look at highlights of the 82-game, six-month affair.
1 The Wolves open at home against Sacramento on Oct. 27, which means it will take only one game for fans to begin debating whether it was worth selecting Wesley Johnson over DeMarcus Cousins with the No. 4 pick in the draft. Also the number of times Kevin Garnett and Boston visit Target Center (March 27).
From Royce Webb/ESPN: 2010-11 Western Conference standings
15 Minn. Timberwolves
The good news: Our committee of 93 says the Wolves will win 33 percent more games. The bad news: We think the Wolves will be the NBA's worst team. Even worse: Despite a roster with intriguing young talent, Wolves GM David Kahn has us utterly confused regarding how he plans to take Minnesota north in the standings.
Maybe it's just the international style of play that makes Love more valuable to this team than to the Timberwolves. He has a high basketball IQ, solid fundamentals and excellent passing skills. With the 3-point line at a shorter distance, he's a threat from long range. And with the U.S. short on big men, he will be needed to man the center position.
Love was asked Tuesday if he felt more appreciated with the U.S. Team than with the Timberwolves.
"Yes," he responded. "Just a solid yes."
But he was quick to clarify.
"I don't want to come off sounding like a prima donna or sound like I'm complaining or anything," Love said. "I just feel like, since I've been here, it's really been a great team atmosphere. We feel like we have a chance to win this whole thing. I think everybody is just coming in with a great attitude and appreciating everybody as a whole, and really becoming a family.
From Nam Huynh/Minnesota Sports Zone: Q & A: Timberwolves' Forward Anthony Tolliver
From Jon Krawczynski/AP Sports;
Tolliver's spoof on LeBron James' much-maligned ESPN special — titled "The Decision: Part Deux!!" — has been viewed more than 166,000 times since he posted it Friday. A relatively unknown free agent forward with 65 career games under his belt, Tolliver posted the one-minute video to announce that he chose the Minnesota Timberwolves over the Golden State Warriors.
He said it took about five minutes to put together. His girlfriend played the role of the reporter, asking Tolliver where he planned to play next season. Tolliver's sister ran the camera and Tolliver was the director, producer, screenwriter and star.
"I like to have fun with a lot of things and decided to have a little fun with this," Tolliver said
From Steve Aschburner/NBA.com:
Still, it was a nice, light touch, a good-natured needle stuck into the big, lead balloon that James' much-criticized hour of narcissism put aloft over this offseason. Again, hopefully, The King will be cool with this court jester and not make it his business to pulverize Tolliver by whatever means possible when their teams clash this season.
From Ira Winderman/Sun Sentinel:
Anyway, what I find most interesting, especially with the Timberwolves’ recent signing of Anthony Tolliver, are Minnesota’s apparent plans to spot Beasley extensively at small forward. While there obviously is no such current need now for the Heat, with LeBron in place, it’s not as if there where overwhelming options previously. If Michael makes it work at small forward then some second-guessing regarding these past two seasons could be in order.
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Love and his teammates can form a super group after they get knocked out of World Championships in Quarterfinals
John Schuhmann's "article"
I find it interesting that in that whole article there is not one mention of Al Jefferson and the role he played in keeping Love off the court. They make is sound like the Wolves were just too stupid to play their best player.
It fits into the national narrative of the wolves.
John Schuhmann I would bet you money that he did not even watch one wolves game last year.
Primadonna
Yes… that’s the word I was looking for Kevin.
I like Love as a player, but I think he’s got some attitude issues and I predict it will cause major team chemistry problems. You’d think he and Rambis would get along, they’re both sort of California guys, they’re both slow white tall guys with high BB IQs, but I think their attitudes are too different. Rambis is old school, he believes in a team first philosophy, players have to earn their playing time, and players should respect coaches. He did his four years at college, barely got drafted, then got cut, then busted his butt to get back into the league and play only twenty minutes a game. But during that limited time he gave his full effort and did the dirty work. Despite that or perhaps because of it he’s probably one of the most famous bball players who averaged less than 20 minutes a game. He even has a ‘team’ named after him, the All-Rambis Team, composed of the hardest working guys who do the dirty work and don’t expect recognition for it.
Take Kevin Love. This guy left school early. That’s fine, but he’s got to realize that the NBA greats usually did four years and came out of college more fully rounded players and individuals. Then he made more money before his 20th birthday than Rambis did his whole career (I’m just guessing). Then he whines about ONLY getting 28 minutes a night (more than all but one of Rambis’ seasons) and not starting every game, even though there were more senior and more proven players in his immediate position. Just the fact that he says these kind of things to the media indicates that he’s looking out for himself and not the team. Then he says stuff like he’s the best rebounder in the league (in the best league in the world, i.e. best rebounder in the world?). This sense of entitlement from a young guy who has not proven himself in the league has got to rub Rambis the wrong way. While I think Rambis likes him, I think he wants to ‘break him’ or to at least get him to follow his system and ideals more, which is why he was benched more often than he felt he deserved. And I expect that will happen this year.
I’ll defer to people who watch more Wolves’ games, more intensely than I do and with a better all around basketball knowledge, but my opinion is that while Love certainly can hustle at times, he seems to be selective when he feels like doing so. I don’t think Rambis ever did that in a game. And ‘best rebounder in the world’? While I agree that rebounds are an important part of the game, if you focus solely on rebounds, aren’t you doing so at the expense of other aspects of the game, such as team defense? Do you think that could be why he got pulled more often than he felt he deserved?
Anyway, although I am closer in age to Love, I am closer in opinion to Rambis. I think Love’s attitude, especially after starring on the US international team, could really funk up what I think otherwise could be great chemistry. I hope they can find a compromise.
by kiteman on Aug 11, 2010 4:54 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
We should learn a lot, this year...
Kevin Love will be our starting power forward and best player, this season. I predict that he averages 33-35 minutes per game. Basically, he will be counted on, like at no other time during his short NBA career.
This could mean a few different things:
1) He puts up All-Star numbers on an improved Wolves team. Let’s say Love drops 17 & 12 on a 30-win Wolves team… that’s maybe an All-Star (probably depending on our record near the break.) This type of season would feed his ego and keep him happy.
2) He puts up All-Star numbers on a terrible Wolves team. This is a tougher question, with respect to how Love would handle this. Would he blame his teammates? Would he hustle during the blowouts? How would he respond to Rambis? I’m not sure how this one would play out.
3) His numbers drop, but the team improves. Maybe his per-minute production goes down. Maybe he works harder on team defense at the slight expense of some rebounds. Let’s say Love drops 15 & 10 (with a full-load of minutes) but the Wolves win 30 games. This probably means somebody else (Webster, Darko…) is making a strong case for Most Improved Player award. Love gets less of the credit than he probably wants, but certainly has to enjoy the increased amount of wins.
4) Love’s numbers drop and the team stays terrible. This is the worst-case scenario for Love’s future as a Timberwolf. In this case, he probably ends up leaving in a crappy trade.
I’d guess that #2 is the most likely. We’ll see.
I like this
Love was asked Tuesday if he felt more appreciated with the U.S. Team than with the Timberwolves.
“Yes,” he responded. “Just a solid yes.”
But he was quick to clarify.
“I don’t want to come off sounding like a prima donna or sound like I’m complaining or anything,” Love said. "I just feel like, since I’ve been here, it’s really been a great team atmosphere. We feel like we have a chance to win this whole thing. I think everybody is just coming in with a great attitude and appreciating everybody as a whole, and really becoming a family.
The man/boy says he wants to be a leader, and now he’s having first hand experience of what it is he wants to see in ‘Sota. I’ve been down on Love’s attitude as much as anybody, but if I’m being honest with myself I can also interpret all of his comments in positive light as well: there’s a huge opportunity for Love and this team going forward this summer, and right now chemistry and a family atmosphere are the next dominoes that need to fall before we’ll know what we’ve got. I’m sure from Love’s perspective he feels jerked around a bit – couldn’t get long minutes on a tanking team, played behind a post-surgery Al, etc. I’m happy Love is lovin’ his Team USA experience and I hope that the proof is in the pudding when he joins our squad and is able to help create some of that Team USA atmosphere here. That’s leadership, and I’m willing to give this 21 year old a little leeway as he figures it out.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
by biggity2bit on Aug 11, 2010 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
i really like your points
There are two other potentially ancillary type positives:
1. he is networking with really good players. maybe one of them will decide that they want to go to ’sota to play with him and for coach Rambis in the near future (i know…i did say “maybe”!!)
2. getting his name in the press as part of the national squad should help his case during the all-star voting. (i could care less about the all-star game, and the all-star stigma, but it would be nice if at least ONE of the t-pups was actually in the game)
or...
he is networking with really good players. maybe one of them will decide that they want to go to ’sota to play with him and for coach Rambis in the near future
or… he is making friends on other teams that could put in a good word for him,
i.e. he’s looking to move to greener pastures. maybe his trade value will go up.
phuckin' machine took my quarter.
by speed-racer on Aug 11, 2010 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions
The big diffence
You left out the biggest difference between Love and Rambis – Love is actually a talented basketball player while Rambis was mostly a hustle and heart guy. Why are we trying to “break” our only recent high draft pick who hasn’t been a bust into Madsen 2.0?
by Hallelujah Hollaback on Aug 11, 2010 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Love is talented, but
he is not as talented as he thinks he is. It also functions at a emotional level. Love is hurt by the loss of Kevin McHale, who singled him out to be here, and Al Jefferson, who he feels sort of bonded with. Both of those people are on the outs here at CH, though love for Love has never waned. This also comes with being as young as he still is.
Love’s position on the USA team was aided by circumstances having nothing to do with Love’s own abilities: the withdrawal of both Amare and Lopez. Had they been going all out to be on the team, its likely Love would not have made it.
This situation is not helped by the media continually seeking him out. They want articulate interviews and the league would like its face to include (dare I say it) a white face now and then. The Wolves may be the worst or near-worst team in the league, but Dan Patrick has Kevin Love on speed dial.
by ogishkemuncie on Aug 11, 2010 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't care
if Love is as talented as he thinks he is. Arrogance is a pretty common affliction among Professional Athletes and to act like Love has a particularly high level when compared to other good NBA players is pretty laughable. But I’m pretty sure Love is as talented as the people on Team USA think he is and I trust their opinion a lot more than Rambis and Kahn at this point.
Love happens to be pretty good with the media. He’s well spoken for a man of his age and he has the ability to be pretty entertaining, and his ties to LA definitely don’t hurt. The T-Wolves should be ecstatic that they have a player that can garner national media attention even when the team is terrible.
by Hallelujah Hollaback on Aug 11, 2010 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions
let's not forget Bosh and Lebron
from a USA team standpoint. Both can and would play PF in international play. That pretty much eliminates Love from contention.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 11, 2010 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions
almost every guy that makes this version of team USA
owes their spot to someone on the Redeem team either being injured or not wanting to play. Love is not alone in this regard. There are a lot of other players in the league who would (no pun intended) love to be on team USA.
Discounting Love’s participation with this version of the team is silly.
It’s also not clear Lopez would have made the team anyway. They need players who can rebound and he’s, at best, an average rebounder.
I would drive 10 miles to hear fucktwats sing.
by littleboxes on Aug 11, 2010 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Lopez would have made the team.
Lopez a real center plus all star
if Lee could play and amr’e could play then love would not have made the team.
Lopez would not have made the team
that’s my counter argument to your argument. Tim Duncan was horrible in FIBA play.
I would drive 10 miles to hear fucktwats sing.
This is joke Right????
If so you need to work on your punchline
Duncan was terrible but Yao was really good.
Also, Team USA couldn’t shoot worth a lick so Duncan was always doubled.
Rubio, who art thou savior.
with complete sincerity (seriously)
thank you for the well-reasoned reply. the constant double teaming is a big reason why Duncan sucked. With capable shooters, the Duncan comparison does not hold water.
I would drive 10 miles to hear fucktwats sing.
Although the one thing that Duncan could control that he
didn’t do a good job of was fouling. He was in constant foul trouble because he didn’t get the Superstar calls that he was accustomed to. It’s the main reason he didn’t opt to play in the Olympics again.
Rubio, who art thou savior.
"Love is talented, but he is not as talented as he thinks he is."
You said it. I remember hearing (I think it was Mike McCullow sp?) on KFAN a month or so ago. He said he talked to Love at a USA practice and Love said he is the BEST rebounder in the League. Mike continued to go on saying how Kevin is a man of his word and of coarse took his side while bashing every single one of the Wolves’ moves.
Well, Kev will get to show his stuff this year.
The thing is...
“Love is talented, but he is not as talented as he thinks he is.”
Love said he is the BEST rebounder in the League
It might be debatable, but he probably is… So that isn’t terribly good evidence that he is not as talented as he thinks he is.
I think the problem is that Love knows exactly how good he is, and Kahmbis either don’t know how good Love is, or had different incentives last season (tanking).
Statistitically speaking, Love is correct.
He, in fact, is the best rebounder in the league. At the very least, he’s top 5.
Do you people (chuck) find it so offensive whenever an athlete believes in himself. I bet you would’ve hated Cassius Clay. What a primadonna!
by princelyfrank on Aug 12, 2010 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions
But doesn't he leave his man
to get rebounds. I rather he was more committed to Defense. Rebounding isn’t only thing love can be good at if he applied more effort and time to it.
by KahningPups on Aug 14, 2010 12:28 AM CDT up reply actions
I really don't think Love is going to be here much longer
He clearly has no respect for this franchise. Kahn will trade him or he’s going to walk in another year or two.
I agree
He doesn’t want to be on the team. Ship him out if a good deal comes along. Best case is that he has a solid year and becomes a big trade asset towards the deadline. It’s one thing to not like your boss. It’s another to state it to the media — in so many words — time and time again.
by ChicagoViking on Aug 11, 2010 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions
one ammendment
i think best case would be that KLove has a great year, with Beastley having a breakout year…making one of them possibly expendable (provided Beastley does his damage at the 4 rather than the 3 of course).
Good for him
This franchise hasn’t done anything to earn respect.
by DJL44 on Aug 11, 2010 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
True.
I’m a T-Wolves fan through and through, but I have no respect for the franchise whatsoever. I do have respect for Love, though.
The attitude around this place is crazy. If any player expresses a desire to win some games and not be crappy forever, it’s “What a primadonna!” “Trade him out!” “We hate good players!”
I suggest everybody calm down a bit. Love’s answer to that question was not just about his perception, it was about the truth. Has Team USA shown him more respect than the T-Wolves? Think about it for second. If you were not Love, but were yourself, and were asked that question about Love, how would you answer?
by princelyfrank on Aug 11, 2010 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Overblown as "respect" is, there's no other way to answer that question.
Has Team USA shown (Love) more respect than the T-Wolves?
Has Team USA (“appreciated” Love) more than the T-Wolves?
Hard to argue, you’d answer “yes” to either one. “A solid yes.”
who care this USA team sucks
let him have his winning now he can whine all season long
by KahningPups on Aug 11, 2010 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd say he's treating the franchise with more respect...
Than it has treated him with…
"I'm gonna make you cry...I'm gonna make you cry and dip my cookie in your tears!!!"
Two things I am not going to argue with at all:
This is a guy that was selected with the No. 5 pick in the 2008 Draft, and he averaged fewer minutes than Ryan Gomes and started fewer games than Ryan Hollins….
….Countless people around the NBA were baffled by the lack of love for Love in Minnesota last season. Count USA center Tyson Chandler among them. “I can’t speak for their organization, but I definitely know when we play against them, he’s almost No. 1 on the scouting report….”
You want to know how team chemistry gets messed up? Try relegating a solid young player to the bench in order to start someone like Ryan Hollins. The flimsy explanations we sometimes prop up for starting Hollins last year aren’t any better for the Wolves’ opponents than they are for him.
Coaches are pretty often stupid and overproud about explaining their moves to players. If I’d been Rambis, making a move like the Hollins starts, I’d have called Love in and said “Listen, we know how good you are. What we want right now is to see what our lineup looks like with an athletic center starting, partly to maybe protect Jefferson more defensively. Don’t sweat it, we know you have worlds of potential, this is an experimental year.” It sure doesn’t seem like Rambis and Love had that conversation until they were sitting at playoff games together, if they had it at all.
(But then I would never have made that move. Needing bench production, I’d have benched Flynn and Brewer and started Sessions and Ellington.)
“I’m just saying in a 15-win season, last year with the Timberwolves, a lot of stuff happened…a lot of new players…we had blown up that team. Heading into this year, we need to just start becoming a family, kind of like it is here, and integrate that family atmosphere into the Timberwolves.”
The smartest thing for Kahn and Rambis to do in response to this story is agree with that. Say that’s what you want for the team. Say Love is wanting exactly what you do. You know it’s tough playing for a losing team sometimes, you’re aiming for the same place.
by feral on Aug 11, 2010 7:13 AM CDT reply actions 6 recs
+1
It was great that they got Darko to buy in by starting him, but at what expense?
If they see Love as a cornerstone, he needed the same type of confidence and PT that Darko and Jonny saw. If they don’t, then we had better hope their evaluation is correct or they are stunting his growth and possibly burning the bridge.
The contrast with Flynn is most jarring, for me.
No matter what explanation we prop up for how Love was treated, it falls apart when Jonny’s starting role is the comparison.
Treat everyone equally...
but not the same… or something like that.
Tough love with Darko was not going to work. With Kevin, it might. We’ll see. Obviously, Rambis feels the need to push Love and to coddle Darko. I think Darko’s paid his dues around the league a helluva lot more than Love has, in terms of being jerked around by coaches. Some of that was his own fault, but then again, I’m sure some degree of Love’s treatment has to do with things we don’t fully understand here on the internet.
I'm sure we don't understand them.
But it’s part of a coach’s responsibility to make sure the players do.
Either Love is stubbornly refusing to see that he deserved to play limited minutes so that Ryan Hollins could start, or the explanation didn’t make much sense. Which one are we betting on?
Or
the team is getting exactly what it wants from Love – a highly motivated player who is going to do damn near everything he can to prove to them how big a mistake their handling of him last year was. And he wants to be the go-to guy and team leader to boot!
I’m sorry, but I again am faced with the continual dilemma of Kahn and Rambis – are they simply just idiots, or are they mad scientist geniuses? I personally don’t subscribe to much of anything last year being an indication for how Rambis really wants to coach and substitute – I think they were tanking ‘learning’ and Love was the best player who got the short end of the stick. I think this year will be very, very different. Can’t wait for it to get started so that we can get some resolution on some of these questions. FWIW, though, I think Rambis has to be happy to hear all of this from Love. Who cares if Love is whining about last year, if last year really was a throwaway year. Rambis wants Love motivated and giving all out effort, and it sounds like that’s exactly where Love is at right now. Sweet! So a 21 year old kid is whining a little – who cares, as long as it belies an attitude and a hunger that will drive him to reach all of his potential.
Now, if he’s just being a whiny little b#tch, then that’s something completely different. But I think that Love is poised for a monster year and I think Rambis is going to give him the minutes to do it. I don’t think Rambis’ ego is so fragile or weak that he’s going to be put off by any of this. At the end of the day, I want Love to be a bit pissed and amped up about what should his be his (this team and a starring role). We’ve all said all along that he could be awesome if he gave it his all every minute he’s out there. Well, welcome to one potential strategy for getting that out of Love.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
We're all hoping this was it.
But again, the whole We-were-experimenting explanation…. How does it fit with the odd rigidity when it came to Flynn’s role, or those of various other players on the roster?
If Rambis had been truly “learning” for the whole season, and I think he meant to be, then how long did he need to learn that Ryan Hollins isn’t going to be able to rebound or play a defensive center’s role? That baffles me.
I really think...
the key for Rambis was to not play Al and Love at the same time. I am pretty certain that the plan was to trade Al from early last season. I think Rambis wanted to play Love in situations where he’d be the focus down low on offense. Not only would coming off the bench hopefully push Love to work his ass off during the off season, really earn his spot as a starter, but to push the development of Love’s game when the defenders weren’t keying off Al down low.
Flynn… I think the idea behind Flynn has always been a baptism by fire. Try to develop his game as quickly as possible, so that the team knows what it has when Rubio, the projected cornerstone, gets here. I think it’s about maximizing Flynn’s value and development. I also think it isn’t about Flynn’s drive, his want to, but it’s him seeing the game faster, knowing when to go or when to move the ball.
by Krotz the Wall on Aug 11, 2010 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
OK
re: Rambis, ‘learning,’ and Hollins – I think Rambis ‘learned’ what Hollins can and cannot do fairly quickly. The issue was not so much (in general terms) whether or not he needed to yank Hollins, it was whether he had anyone else better to put in once Hollins was yanked. Hollins became a noticeable after thought once Darko arrived.
I suppose the rebuttal will be something about Hollins subbing in for Love and how that doesn’t make sense, and the truth is that it doesn’t at all unless they were trying to tank games. That’s my belief, personally. Al was being shopped, and Love was getting yanked around to both motivate him and to prevent us from winning. For all the moves that have been made this summer it should shout volumes that Love was kept, as he was the ONLY player from last year who looked like he could be a star in whatever system Rambis wants to run.
I personally refuse to infer that Rambis’ handling of Love last year has any predictive value for how Rambis will handle him this year. Just too many differences, too many changes. This is Love’s team. It’s a system that works really, really well if you have a guy like Love. Why wouldn’t you want to play him? Because he (Rambis) didn’t last year, on a team with a half dozen 10-12 men in starting and major role positions, running a system completely foreign to them, and on a team it looks like now the FO knew they were going to blow up anyways? Hell, maybe Rambis didn’t play Love because he wanted to protect him from injury – keep him safe for when it really counts. I don’t know. For me, I believe last year was a throw away season, and this year is ‘for keeps.’ If we’re going to disagree on that then we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
As for Flynn, it’s another valid question, my response to which is partially covered in the preceding paragraphs. The other thing I will say, however, is that Ramon Sessions wasn’t exactly lighting the world on fire last year either. I personally believe that the team did run better with Ramon, but I also was dramatically underwhelmed by his production. To put it simply – I thought he was a better player who didn’t show up at all. I don’t care about the system, I don’t care about the talent around him. Dude got 21.1 minutes a night, played with better fitting talent than Jonny arguably (Ellington over Brewer, Love over Big Al, Wilkins or Gomes = push), and he showed nothing compelling for being the clear cut starter. For all his flaws Jonny showed flashes of being really, really good.
Ramon shot an efg% of .457 last year, same as Jonny.
Ramon didn’t shoot threes, but Jonny did (.358 on 2.7 3pa’s a night) – apparently an important distinction for the offense Rambis wants to run
Ramon averaged 5.4 assists/36 to Jonny’s 5.5 assists/36
Ramon’s assist percentage was 23.3 last year to Jonny’s 24.7.
Ramon averaged 4.8 FTA/36 last year to Jonny’s 4.2 FTA/36.
Ramon’s DRtg was 113 to Jonny’s 114.
Ramon scored 14 pts/36 to Jonny’s 16.8 pts/36.
Per 36 minutes Ramon turned the ball over far less – 2.8 times to Jonny’s 3.6 – but interestingly their TO%‘s are quite similar (17.2 to Jonny’s 17.9). (TO% is an estimate of the number of turnovers per 100 plays). So why does Jonny turn the ball over more per 36? Probably because he plays at a faster pace, not because he was significantly worse at turnovers.
To me I don’t see any significant statistical margin that shouts to me that Ramon was the better prospect than Jonny last year. My eyes told me that Ramon looked better, but at the end of the day Jonny was and still is the better prospect.
So why did Rambis stick with Flynn so stubbornly all season long? Probably because between the two, Jonny has greater upside (all other things being equal – which they are). Is Rambis’ handling of Jonny a clear slap in the face to Love? No – how could it be? Love was primarily competing with Al last year, and Al is no longer here. Any casual observer will understand that an Al + Love frontcourt is not winning any playoff series without a Brandon Roy or Kevin Durant on the team. To quote Pat Kessler, ’that’s reality check.’ All indications are that Love is the PF, Beasley’s the SF. I think Love’s still frustrated at last year, but again I believe last year has very little predictive value for this year – in terms of playing time, in terms of substitution patterns, and even in terms of scheme.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
by biggity2bit on Aug 11, 2010 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions
I would also add
that what I was also thinking when I said this:
re: Rambis, ‘learning,’ and Hollins – I think Rambis ‘learned’ what Hollins can and cannot do fairly quickly. The issue was not so much (in general terms) whether or not he needed to yank Hollins, it was whether he had anyone else better to put in once Hollins was yanked. Hollins became a noticeable after thought once Darko arrived.
I suppose the rebuttal will be something about Hollins subbing in for Love and how that doesn’t make sense, and the truth is that it doesn’t at all unless they were trying to tank games. That’s my belief, personally. Al was being shopped, and Love was getting yanked around to both motivate him and to prevent us from winning. For all the moves that have been made this summer it should shout volumes that Love was kept, as he was the ONLY player from last year who looked like he could be a star in whatever system Rambis wants to run.
was that Hollins, as a historically bad player last year, was an extremely effective substitution for Love (who arguably was the one guy who could consistently alter the outcomes of games last year) in making sure our efforts to ‘develop’ were kept on track (translation – it’s hard to tank games if you play Love too much, so bring in Hollins – a guy who actually costs you wins).
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
by biggity2bit on Aug 11, 2010 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions
regarding Flynn vs Sessions
I do think that their assist totals are skewed in Jonny’s favor because of his pace of play. Basically the same assist totals per 36 but Jonny playing faster. This would lend credence to Sessions being a better offensive operator last year (which he was). But Jonny will be the better player. There was a lot of Jonnyhate going around last year because we were all pissed about Curry. That hate turned into Sessions love. Ask general basketball fans who have no real interest in the wolves who was better between Sessions or Flynn and they will probably say Flynn.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 11, 2010 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions
True
Jonny still had a better AST% though (the percentage of teammate’s field goals a player assists on while on the floor).
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
that may be slightly related to USG though
Jonny clearly had the higher ceiling…if for no other reason than he can actually shoot (and hit free throws).
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 11, 2010 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
I have a hard time getting too down on Love for his feelings about last season. Read any game thread after Jan. 1 and a quarter of the comments focused on tanking. The guy who paid the price for this was Love.
At the same time, if Rambis was using the “opportunity” to send a message to Love about being in shape and playing hard at all times, I think that is also justified.
This year will be the proof of whether or not it worked.
To a certain extent, I see where you are coming from here:
“I personally refuse to infer that Rambis’ handling of Love last year has any predictive value for how Rambis will handle him this year. Just too many differences, too many changes. This is Love’s team. It’s a system that works really, really well if you have a guy like Love. Why wouldn’t you want to play him?”
But is a leap of faith. It is equally probable to infer that Rambis was ok with having Love appearingly deprioritized relative to Jonny and Darko because he simply wasn’t a priority. And while not knocking the Al trade – I think it was fine value given the situation – I am skeptical that starting Al over Love (if they really prefer Love) boosted the net in the trade.
Ya
and that’s why I can’t wait for them to start playing games. At this point in the year it’s pretty much all of us arguing for our opinions but without anything on the court to use as evidence. It’s almost like a Tea Leaf Reader Battle Royale amongst bball junkies – know what I mean?
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
well..
But is a leap of faith. It is equally probable to infer that Rambis was ok with having Love appearingly deprioritized relative to Jonny and Darko because he simply wasn’t a priority.
To this I say, how many other players did Rambis hang out with this offseason? While I can understand the lack of factual information pointing in one way or the other during the season, the offseason has borne out who the organization has longer term plans for.
If Rambis didn’t care about making Love a priority Hollins and Darko would have played more minutes consistently.
I don’t think Biggity has made anything other than a logical conclusion from what little we can see.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 11, 2010 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions
If he is the long term priority, then I disagree with the choices they made last season.
I’m sure he noticed the difference in treatment between himself and the aforementioned teammates. It’s great to have face time with the coach in the offseason, but playing with the first line against the other first line cannot be discounted. There is enough ambiguity in Love’s quotes where we don’t know how much was restored with the Rambis 1:1’s.
No need to beat it to death though. They either are building with him as a core piece or they aren’t. We’ll know soon enough. I do agree with B2B that the best way to get a read on it is to see what happens when they start playing actual games.
Did Love look leaner in that interview posted yesterday?
I thought so.
Maybe it takes tough love to wean someone off a chocolate milk diet.
Playing Flynn and Sitting Love
Both work on the tanking angle – many people here believed the wolves would have had a better record with more minutes for Sessions.
Moreover, going along the same line as Andy G’s “treat everyone equal, but not different” idea, perhaps the staff thought Flynn would be helped more by experience than discipline while learning the PG position, and that Love with his high BBIQ would be better served with a kick in the pants and a short leash on failing to hustle.
I'm cool with Love
If he really takes his “Build a Family” approach seriously. That means even through losing though. I think the fact he sees himself as a starter and wants to prove he should be is a great sign. I am just sick of hearing him bring it up at every opportunity he gets to the media. The media doesn’t set the starting rotation. Your coach does. So shut up and go prove it to him.
Love/Hollins...
The actual numbers are important here, because Love played 28 minutes per game (should we say 4 or 5 less than he deserved?) and Hollins played 16. I know Love wanted to start, but it’s not like he didn’t get to play as much as Hollins — he played a lot more than Hollins, consistently.
There were a handful of games where Rambis yanked Love and made a point of sitting him down for extended stretches. That’s what sticks out in my mind, more than Hollins starting the games. Whether Love deserved to be benched in those instances, I’m not sure… from a purely ego-management perspective, it would have been nice to reward Love and let him start. On this crappy team, it would sting a little bit for a good young player to backup a guy like Hollins.
This is a good point.
It wasn’t the sixth-man role that really stood out to me, because it seemed easy to explain (Rambis wants a real center, and Jefferson’s trade value needed to be held up).
But it was the long stretches on the bench, and the almost vindictive nature of the benchings that had me confused.
Last game of the year, great example.
Something was going on, there, and it wasn’t Love being ineffective. Rambis seemed to nail Love down to let him watch the team lose, deliberately.
Paid their dues
Actually I’m pretty sure Love has paid his dues more since he’s actually been a productive NBA player. Its amazing that the same people that think Darko somehow got screwed by several different coaching staffs think that making our best player back up Ryan Hollins is a solid developmental strategy.
by Hallelujah Hollaback on Aug 11, 2010 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Thanks for including that quote by Love
(about the Wolves becoming a family) Without it, Love sounds like an ass. With that quote he sounds like he gets it.
Last year we had so much change and so many expiring contracts it had to be a nightmare for building chemistry. This year should be a lot better. We’ve got a lot of young kids who are signed for a few years working hard to build something.
We’re really lucky he gets to be around these great players and see how the game is supposed to be played. Hopes that can trickle down back to this team.
Totally agree with feral
No other player of Love’s caliber would put up with the treatment that Rambis dished out last year. Love was the best player on the team and got short changed on minutes. It was and is a huge mistake that will derail the Wolves in the future. He will be leaving and the reason will be mismanagement by Rambis and Kahn.
When he is put in a position to succeed we will see the kind of player he really is.
This implies
that Love is of a caliber (as a player) similar to KG, Durant, and the like. And speaking of ‘mismanagement’ – let’s not forget how McHale made Love ‘earn his minutes’ as a rookie, even when Al went down. Kahn and Rambis didn’t start this manner of holding back for Love, they simply continued a trend. You want to know why Love’s pissed? Perhaps because his entire career he’s been the better player and hasn’t gotten the minutes. To pin it all on Rambis is shortsighted and ignorant.
Under McHale, Love got 25.3 mpg and 37 starts (45.7% of the total games he played in)
Under Rambis, Love got 28.6 mpg and 22 starts (36.7% of the total games he played in)
Per 36 minutes Love got more shots per game under Rambis, more rebounds per game, more assists per game, a higher USG%, a higher PER. I mean seriously people – was playing for McHale manna for Love’s game? No. He’s a talented and extremely productive and competitive guy who wants to go out there and show what he can do in significant minutes every night, and he’s (I’m assuming here) frustrated as hell that he has yet to be given the green light by either of his coaches to do that (although it would appear that Rambis is more willing to make Love the focal point of the offense through than McHale was).
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
by biggity2bit on Aug 11, 2010 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions
"shortsighted and ignorant"
A very laughable “shortsighted and ignorant” statement. Love got less minutes because he was a rookie. As a third year vet on a very bad team and arguably the best player, he deserved starters minutes. Many not associated with the Twolves have stated this same point.
Nobody pinned this all on Rambis. I actually assume that Kahn had plenty to do with it also. This mismanagement by both will haunt the Wolves for years to come.
It is “shortsighted and ignorant” to manipulate stats to try and make an invalid point. To compare a rookies minutes ( who at the time was not considered by many to be the best player on the team ) to a 3rd year vets minutes ( who many consider the best player on the team ) is just plain “shortsighted and ignorant”.
don't you mean 2nd year vet?
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 11, 2010 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions
This, to me...
…sounds like it’s being pinned on Rambis:
No other player of Love’s caliber would put up with the treatment that Rambis dished out last year. Love was the best player on the team and got short changed on minutes. It was and is a huge mistake that will derail the Wolves in the future. He will be leaving and the reason will be mismanagement by Rambis and Kahn.
As for the point about him being a rookie, I think it was pretty clear that he was no worse than the second best player on that team. Even after Al went down Love averaged fewer minutes per game (28.1) than he did last year (28.6). All I’m saying is that this is not a case of ‘OMG! Rambis doesn’t know what he’s doing and is dramatically limiting Love’s minutes!’ Rookie or not, Love played as the best player on a team bereft of any other good options at his position, and still he couldn’t get the minutes that Rambis found for him.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
No matter the situation dude should not run his mouth to the media.
You keep that shit in the family. otherwise you lose trust of the players coaches Management of the team.
by chuckd@79 on Aug 11, 2010 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
K Love
Ummm, wasn’t trading Big Al kind of a loud message to Love that the Wolves “appreciate” his skills and abilities and are looking for big things from him this season? Did Kevin miss that?
I guess...
He fully expected to be traded and admittted it…I bet he is fully let down that he didn’t seeing where Al ended up.
He is the worst attitude on this team and we have Micheal Beasley!
by Timberwolf i.e. Albatross on Aug 11, 2010 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions
I like Love
but his comments seemed warranted before Jefferson was traded…not so much now.
Hmm…he is still pretty young, Hopefully a year of starting and a better team around him will change his tune.
It's obvious to us - - - - How Love could miss it
I mean, the whole team was dissolved except for Love and two other guys?
To me, it’s like, “HELLOOOOO, Kevin, or. Earth to Kevin, we appreciate you, don’t
you get it -—- we were tanking and keeping you out of games because you’re so
damn good you would have messed up our chance to get Wes.” The proof is that
Rambis shipped almost everyone else out and kept Kevin -- and even went on
the tour with him, treating him as the crown jewel of the franchise. I hope KL gets
it. This team is built around him. These greyhounds were selected
because they are guys that can receive the benefit of Love’s pulldowns and outlet
passes, break-away quickly, get down the hardwood, and finish. This team is
loosely built around the 80’s Showtime Lakers that had the best fast-break in
basketball, without, of course, the great stars (Kareem and Magic). We have
several James Worthy types on here, though, and that’s not a bad thing. Rambis
has only logged one year here. You can’t get the best Center and the best PG
in the business overnight. You have to do with what you can get. So far, I think
that R&K have done a great job (considering this is the TW franchise) of putting
some pieces around Kevin that can highlight what he does. His assist rate
will be phenomenal, IMO.
I think the Press realizes Kevin’s immaturity and pounce every time he makes
an obvious gaffe and take advantage, which hurts the team. He has to be more
guarded in his dealings with the Fourth Estate. The press is not your friend
(unless you’re trying to get a ticket out of the frozen North).
Love
Someone needs to put the Kahn muzzle on this guy, and quick.
Kevin: Just. Shut. Up. Already.
Love is just following in Kahn's footsteps
and being openly candid and honest!
It’s hard to argue that the picture he paints isn’t accurate. The question is, will he be able to bring some of that “family atmosphere” from the USA Team back to the Wolves this season?
The Wolves situation is more primed for Love to have a huge impact this year. No senority issues, no incumbent player in his way, a coach that will now TRY to win and no hidden agendas from players in the final year of their contract.
The team tanked last year. Love seemed to have the toughest time dealing with playing on a team that was tanking. But how can you hold that against the guy?
Agreed
Couple things – first, it’s not as if Love’s the only one commenting about this team needing to come together:
Anthony Tolliver: Man, it’s pretty exciting. There’s a lot of young talent, emphasis on young, which doesn’t always mean it’s bad you know you see what Oklahoma City did last year with a whole bunch of young guys. So I think that if we just continue to work individually and once training camp starts we just have one goal as a team to really come together and be committed to what coach wants us to do I feel like we can do just as much. So everybody is going to have to step up and play to their full potential but I think it’s very possible.
And second, Love should have a huge impact this year provided he doesn’t walk into the hole of his own making:
This may have been lost among all of the other bummers and depressives of the 09-10 season, but let’s remember that for much of the second half of the year, Love was not his normal ferocious, energetic self. He seemed lost, distracted and lethargic. His numbers started to slip. Even reliable Wolves cheerleader Jim Peterson commented on the air that Love "looks to me like he’s checked out." For sure, much of this was frustration at his uncertainty within the offense, with his "promotion" to the second unit and with the team’s awful fortunes. But consider that players like Damian Wilkins, Corey Brewer and even Jonny Flynn and Big Al mostly managed to carry on with their customary intensity even as things got bleak. As Rambis himself offered, "if he’s not playing hard, then things aren’t gonna work out for him."
I think all is fine on this team attitude and personality wise. I’m glad Love’s having a great experience on Team USA, and I hope that his chumming with Rambis on the sidelines of a Lakers playoff run is a sign that they worked some things out, and mostly I’m excited and optimistic that Love wants this team to be his and (in contrast to checking out last year) is eager to get the team and family atmosphere going again.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
by biggity2bit on Aug 11, 2010 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Did Big Al "carry on with his customary intensity" late last year?
Wow, do I ever not think he did.
And Jonny? Again…. I’m just having trouble seeing all those eyes-glazed moments when he was pounding the ball as emblematic of a competitor who never stopped grinding it out. Particularly defensively, this contrast doesn’t work for me.
Jefferson related...
I think that more than anything, Love has some lingering resentment over the Wolves pissing away his second season to try to up Big Al’s trade value. And I think that Love has some right to be upset considering the results.
by DougW on Aug 11, 2010 8:13 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I just think Love
acts a little too entitled to stuff considering what he has proven in the league. Yeah, his rebounding is great, but he needs to hustle to reach his ceiling and earn additional wins. We forget that players do piss and moan about PT and shots because that is what they usually get paid for. If Love wants to be the man like he has been on every team he has ever played for, he will have to hustle and play hard every minute.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 11, 2010 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
But again, my problem with this criticism comes down to Jonny Flynn
The two players got treated radically differently last year. If you’re Kevin Love and you see Jonny getting a free starting pass for the entire year, despite playing atrocious defense and having a veteran (Sessions) around who was roughly analogous to Big Al, while you yourself are put behind Ryan Hollins, how do you react?
I can't say for sure
I am guessing that since sessions was traded that Rambis wasn’t very high on him. So then who eles was on the roster at the point that deserved PT more than Flynn? The treatment of Flynn and Love should not be compared. They were done independantly of each other and in a vacum focusing solely on individual teaching points.
If you knew as a coach that only Flynn was going to be here next year, what would you do? I would rather Flynn get as many reps as possible, so when I bring in a new vet next year Flynn should have had his learning curve accelerated as much as possible to compare to the new guy(s). Those same concerns weren’t there for Love. If you knew he was likely to be your guy, then you can now use PT to encourage certain behaviors that help you in the long run.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 11, 2010 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions
equal isn't fair and fair isn't equal
PG vs PF, rookie vs 2nd year guy, reputation as drafted to high vs heralded young guy. The fact is, these two guys are in different circumstances in the league and should/will be treated differently at times. And, Sessions is in no way analogous to Al Jefferson. Al was a borderline All-Star and proven starter for several years in the league. Sessions was a backup PG from a bad team who had one good season going into last year.
Jonny Flynn needed every minute of floor time he could get
Love didn’t. Didn’t we learn anything from playing KG too many minutes? Big men need to be used wisely, and in a season made for tanking, Love got more rest than maybe he wanted.
No autopsy, no foul.
we'll know this year
whether he got the dribbling out of his system, or if he’s trade fodder.
No autopsy, no foul.
I am so tried of the excuses.
This is my prime example of how people here at hoopus have ignorant bliss when It comes to Love. If any other player was saying this shit most of Hoopus would want that player traded ASP. why didn’t Sessions complain year when clearly he was the better point guard. why didn’t al Jefferson complain about the triangle I could go on and on but the simple fact is Love is Diva. He is building animosity among his teammates fast. What the team needs to do is start love boost up his stats and trade him at the deadline. The wolves don’t need another team cancer like Christian Laettner.
I have no problem with Love's comments
Not surprisingly, guys that like Love see his comments as refreshing, honest and hopeful for the future. Guys that don’t like Love see his comments like Chuck.
Unfortunately
I’d rather watch Love play in a Wolves uniform than the lottery protected draft pick + “guy with potential” Kahn would get in return for him.
Laettner
That’s exactly who comes to mind when I think about Love.
Laettner's the last guy I think of
when I think of Love. Love has talent, Laettner just had a good team at Duke.
No autopsy, no foul.
Because they're both Caucasian?
Love would never finger his team mates as “loser, loser, loser.” Laettner was a total jerk.
"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please."
Mark Twain
The fingering would be worse than being called a "loser"
At least from my perspective.
those are some big hands too. just sayin.
by fanslaststand on Aug 11, 2010 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions
He implied it about Darko and B-easy
He said signing Darko was a strange move and B-easy needs to stay out his way and play SF and keep his troubles in MIA
he wasn't a team player, and he wasn't as good as Love
I don’t mind that Love is competitive and doesn’t accept coming off the bench to accommodate a lesser player. And I don’t feel like Love would say any of this stuff if he didn’t have every intention of backing it up.
Sounds to me like Love likes his teammates and just expects a chance to prove what he can do.
intention versus ability...
that’s the bigger issue, here. Love needs to step up and be an All-Star type of player if he’s going to be the public voice on Wolves personnel moves and everything else. Role players are not typically afforded that opportunity. Jefferson wasn’t the spokesmen for the franchise that Love has become, so you can save your favorite comparisons on this topic.
^ Ultimately, yes, this ^
Love needs to step up and be an All-Star type of player if he’s going to be the public voice on Wolves personnel moves and everything else.
I think this Wolves season..
is shaping up to be The Year of Love. All his comments have kind of put him in a position where he’s either going to establish himself as a face-of-the-franchise type (and future member of a Big Three along with Rubio and Player X), or else he’s gone this time next season.
by LoveTo on Aug 11, 2010 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe a theme for the new uniforms?
Warriors would be jealous.
You hit the nail on the head LoveTo
And I’m glad.
It ain’t braggin’ if you can back it up. So come on KLove and back that shit up.
Love is not Laettner
Laettner came in as a college star and felt entitled from the get-go. He hit “the shot”. He was on the original Dream Team, for crying out loud. Love is a bit of a different player, though both have high BB IQ’s. I think Love can be a more productive player than Laettner, but hasn’t had the opportunity yet. I do agree with posters who note how other players who have been good soldiers here (like Sessions, Gomes, Jefferson, etc) lost the support of Wolves staff and posters here until they finally were gone. The real culprit is the media loves Love, and media today is more enveloping than ever.
These guys weren't run out of town
Al’s not on the team because his style of play is pretty much the exact opposite of what this team is trying to do offensively. We want to run and he’s a pure half-court player, his rebounding would really be the only advantage he would give a running team. Fortunately for him, he’s going to a great situation in Utah where he won’t have to be the man, but will still get to play a huge role in the offense. If Al is able to fully recover from his injury, I fully expect him to but up numbers comparable to what Boozer did last year. He’s really like a poor man’s Malone offensively and I think he’ll flourish under Sloan.
Sessions situation is similar, but he isn’t as good as Al. He was basically a more polished, but lower upside version of Flynn. The Wolves did nothing wrong to Sessions. They gave him the largest contract he was realistically going to get last year and then traded him to a place where he’ll actually get to play decent minutes after things didn’t work out here.
Gomes was all about the contract, and again doesn’t really fit into a running team that well.
Role players are almost by definition “good soldiers”. They wouldn’t be in the league if they weren’t. Different roles have different expectations. Inexplicably, after years of dealing with actual real-life Primadonnas Shaq and Kobe, Rambis doesn’t seem to realize that you give you Best players more leeway.
by Hallelujah Hollaback on Aug 11, 2010 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions
So if Al was the one who didn't fit Rambis' style of play
should Rambis have reversed the roles assigned to Al and Love? (i.e. start Love and bring Al off the bench)
Not if he wanted to trade Al for something of value.
Though it remains to be seen whether his decision-making is actually that sophisticated.
But isn't that what Love is? A well above average role player?
My advanced stat could beat up your advanced stat!
Love is already a more productive NBA player than Laettner
I would drive 10 miles to hear fucktwats sing.
by littleboxes on Aug 11, 2010 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions
When you look at the full quote
I think Love is talking about team issues beyond his personal struggles with playing time. When he compares team USA to the Wolves, he talks only about Team USA being a team atmoshpere, while the Wolves “a lot of new players…we had blown up that team.” It really seems like whatever probolem he had with his treatment, here he is talking about the treatment of all the players. The fact that no one was valued last year. He has talked more than once about the need to keep a nucleus and build at smoe point. This makes a ton of sense. With all the talk about player development, last year was about blowing the thing up. There was no commitment to any one player on that team, or even to winning. So what was the common goal pulling that team together? contrast that with the focused situation of team USA, where a bunch of athletes are brought together for their talents, and the primary goal is to build a team, to unite these diverse players and mesh them into a cohesive unit as quickly as possible. It would have to be a complete reversal from Love’s experience on the Wolves, even if coack K brought in Hollins to play ahead of Love in the tourney.
He looks like he's trying out for coach, with some of these comments.
Which seems a bit presumptive, for a guy with 2 years experience.
He should lay back & watch Rambis, to learn how to handle the press. If Kahn gives Rambis some air…
Man, this four-team trade seems kind of huge to me
Trevor Ariza to NO
Darren Collison and James Posey to IND
Troy Murphy to NJ
Courtney Lee to HOU
Not 100% final yet, but ESPN says the principals are in place. I think Indiana wins this trade big time. They finally have a solid point guard. Houston does save a boatload of $ though. What do you guys think?
My advanced stat could beat up your advanced stat!
Ariza too NO?
Is NO really just dumping Collison for nothing? Seriously?
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
by biggity2bit on Aug 11, 2010 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions
They do get rid of Posey's contract, too
but yeah, I don’t think they’re getting very good value for Collison. Ariza might work well with CP3.
My advanced stat could beat up your advanced stat!
Nevermind
serious brain fart there. disregard please.
And yes, Indy is the big winner here – Collison, George, Granger, Ariza, Hibbert. Nice young core.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
by biggity2bit on Aug 11, 2010 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Yup
did it again. Stupid Ariza/NO messing up my understanding of everything.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
by biggity2bit on Aug 11, 2010 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions
I wonder if Troy Murphy will start over Derrick Favors in NJ
My advanced stat could beat up your advanced stat!
And watch Derrick Favors
not say anything about it.
he shouldn't say anything about it
There are cuts of steak in a butcher’s shop less raw then Favors is.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 11, 2010 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Why would he?
Murphy is the better more established player, it’s really not even close. This isn’t even close to the situation Love is/was in so there is really no need to take a shot at Love at every opportunity no matter how big or small as you do.
by Magoo12218 on Aug 11, 2010 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Tied of the famdom its the same situation but at different levels
Jefferson should have been an all-star >>Love a good young player not an all-star.
Murphy ok starter>> Favors Raw young player has more upside then any player on this list.
No they aren't...
Your just looking for any reason to take yet another shot at Love.
Love was the team’s best player but was benched for one of the league’s worst players in Hollins, Favors would be benched for a player that is just flat out better than him in almost every area, two completely different situations, not to mention that Favors is a rookie that has proved nothing and Love had already proven to be very productive when benched.
Even your own “description” of the situations proves they are different, there isn’t anything similar what so ever. Jefferson wasn’t an all-star so saying he should have been proves nothing.
by Magoo12218 on Aug 11, 2010 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
If you read what I said its the same thing but at different levels
Jefferson should have been an allstar before he got hurt. I and most coaches would rather play an all star than good young player. Its not even close dude. The only reason why klove was slightly better than Jefferson last year was because Jefferson was coming off a major knee injury. If we traded Klove right now would we get 2 1st round picks for him. Hell no. we could not even get Anthony Randolph from the warriors for klove.
Again, it doesn't matter how you word it the situations are completely different.
Jefferson wasn’t going to be an all-star because outside of he and Love the roster was stacked with below average players, meaning the team would have still been terrible and he wouldn’t have gotten an all-star bid anyway even if he was healthy which he wasn’t, so again saying he would have if healthy proves nothing.
Again, Love wasn’t benched for Al, he was benched for one of the worst players in basketball, therefore, your right it isn’t close and your “description” means absolutely nothing.
Also, the rumor was that the Wolves offered Al for Randolph, the Warriors said no and wanted Love for Randolph in which the Wolves said no, now Randolph in New York so there is zero reason to even mention this.
You dont understand how trades work in the nba
The players have to have simular contracts Al makes way more than Randolph.
If love is so good why did the wolves try to get lee
David lee was an allstar and the knicks suck. so I think if he did not get hurt he becomes and allstar big Al was 24 12 I don’t think Klove can get those numbers period. He does not have a post up game and is not athletic enough to overcome the fact that he is undersized.
You're both insulting and plain wrong here.
Al Jefferson made less money than Zach Randolph last year, and will this year again. You might wanna check little items like that before you get all dismissive with other posters.
Randolph is an expiring after this season, which might figure in Memphis’s unwillingness to perform such a hypothetical exchange – but then, pointing that out only underscores the fact that your own sense of “how trades work in the nba” is behind the orchestra by a couple of measures….
Or did you mean Love and Randolph's contracts would have to match?
In that case, again, you would be wrong assuming we’re talking about this summer. ‘Cause, you know, the Wolves are under the cap and wouldn’t have to match. You know? So the contracts don’t need to be “simular” at all.
I'm pretty sure he was talking about
Anthony Randolph, not Zach Randolph
My advanced stat could beat up your advanced stat!
I was just clarifying what chuck was saying
Calm down.
My advanced stat could beat up your advanced stat!
*Wow, didn't know that contracts needed to match up to make a trade thanks for clearing that up.*(* denotes sarcasm)
There would have been more than just Anthony Randolph for Al that is just common sense, I was under the assumption that you understood that Randolph wouldn’t be the only player involved in the deal I guess I was wrong.
The Wolves wanted to trade Randolph and pieces for Al but the Warriors quickly said that they had no interest in Al and turned around with a Love for Randolph trade which the Wolves turned down. The Wolves could have easily traded Randolph for Love straight up because they are both still on their rookie contracts but they chose not to.
Did you ever think that the reason that the Wolves wanted David Lee was because he just playerd center in an uptempo system and Kahn knew he was trading Al while Lee was his replacement instead of the other way around? Kahn needed a replacement for Al and instead of overpaying for Lee he chose to sign Darko and Pek to replace him.
If Al was a 24 and 12 player then there is a good chance that Kahn would have gotten more than cap space and draft picks for him but this all-star that you speak of Al Jefferson being doesn’t exist.
Al has averaged 23 and 11 at his best and that didn’t get him to an all-star game so saying that he would have been an all-star on one of the league’s worst two teams is ridiculous. No matter how good a playeer is if his team is truly terrible then they normally don’t make the all-star team, the Knicks may have sucked but they were 14 games better than the Wolves.
We lost all those games last year
because love was hurt plus Big all was coming off a knee injury. Did you see any games last year.Al was not himself. watch this year he makes the all star game. I put 100$ on that.
2 David lee would not have played center here. And if the Knicks had gotten James then David lee would be a member of the wolves.
3. face the facts dude Rambis Kahn do not think he fits as a starter why do you think they got 2 more PF.
So those are the only two reasons we lost games, REALLY?!?!
So if Al and Love were both 100% we would have been a playoff team, we lost all those games because this team is terrible outside of Al and Love, everyone else on the roster was below average last season(aside from maybe Sessions when he got minutes). Even if those two guys were healthy they would have still had one of the worse two records in basketball it was a terrible basketball team period. Any team in which players like Brewer, Pavlovic, Gomes, Darko, and Hollins are getting minutes should tell you just how awful this team was.
You have no idea whether Lee would have played center last season, you really don’t so stop believing that you do but I can say that Lee played center in his two previous seasons so it wouldn’t have been a stretch to say that he would play center center in a Wolves jersey, as did Al who is also under 6’10".
Al making it to the playoffs will have more to do with him playing for a playoff contender while playing with an all-star pg, not him, so saying that he will make the all-star team isn’t much, especially since Amare leaving has opened up a spot. I wil say that he will still struggle to make it to the all-star game if Dirk, Gasol, Yao, Kaman, and Duncan are healthy.
The fact that Kahn just added another pf just means that the only way that Beasley is going to play is if its at sf because he isn’t good enough to beat out Love, which if his previous two seasons have proven anything we should all accept that he can’t.
You just being stupid now
I never said that the wolves would have made the playoffs.
I just think they were a better than a team that won 15 games.
2nd you prove your ignorance by suggesting lee would play center here. If you watch and paid any attention to how Darko played and what Kahn and Rambis said about him you would know that he is going to be the wolves staring center. That is why they sat love down on the bench. Darko is a true center.
Please before you write something watch the games, pay attention to how players play and what he coaches want the players to do Hopefully you might learn something.
Your not paying attention but I understand that is your m.o.
I never stated that he would be a full time center I just stated that he played center for NY and that you have no idea as to whether Rambis would have used him at center or not, I’m pretty sure that he would have used him at center just as he used Al at center, so please read what I typed.
Regardless of whether you believe that this team is better than 15 wins is your opinion but they weren’t that much better, because as I continue to state and which you continue to ignore is the team, outside of those two, was absolutely terrible, there is really no disputing that which is why you continue to ignore that. This team would still have had the second worse record in the league the supporting cast was just that awful.
I watched Darko and what you and everyone who believe he is a good won’t admit is that he was last season and still is a below average basketball player, he has proven this every year he has been in the league last season included. So what I need you to do is stop looking at box scores and stat lines and believing that they tell you the entire story.
I need you to go back and watch when Love was bench so you can stop saying that he was benched for Darko, he wasn’t benched for Darko, he was benched for Hollins before Kahn even traded Darko do your homework.
Your arguments are just asinine and easily refutable so please sit and think before you type next time.
My arguments are based in reality.
Not some fanboy’s wet dream about a certain player. Hollins to Darko I try to break this down for you. Love was benched for Hollins Hollins than lost his job To darko. In turn love lost his job to Darko. Simple logic.
This is what you typed {You have no idea whether Lee would have played center last season, you really don’t so stop believing that you do but I can say that Lee played center in his two previous seasons so it wouldn’t have been a stretch to say that he would play center center in a Wolves jersey, as did Al who is also under 6’10".} If you had watch the games and paid attention to what Rambis has said hopefully you would have learned that he did not want to start Klove and Big Al together because both are power forwards. he wanted a real center to start. Lee is not a center. In NY he played out of position. The same way Big al was playing out of position .Most people that know anything about basketball knows this .
so don’t try to be tripe because you don’t know shit about basketball.
not really true.
Love was pushed to the bench because Rambis determined that Al was NOT a Center. So in effect, Love lost his starting job to Al. Darko is a Center and Center only. Love can’t lose his job to Darko.
Al was PF/C who Rambis decided couldn’t play C (because he can’t defend them). That is why love was on the bench (or at least one of the reasons).
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 12, 2010 8:13 AM CDT up reply actions
This is a take I can agree with
So in effect, Love lost his starting job to Al. Darko is a Center and Center only. Love can’t lose his job to Darko.
for my next trick
I am going to attempt to shorten my short logic statements by 50%…j/k.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 12, 2010 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions
hehe, what?
so don’t try to be tripe because you don’t know shit about basketball.
Don’t even try to be cow stomach, dude.
That is 1st definition of the word
Main Entry: tripe
Pronunciation: \ˈtrīp\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French
Date: 14th century
1 : stomach tissue especially of a ruminant (as an ox) used as food
2 : something poor, worthless, or offensive
I
Seriously....
so don’t try to be something poor, worthless, or offensive because you don’t know shit about basketball
That sentence makes 0 sense.
I’m going to assume the word you were looking for was trite, but I really don’t know anymore.
This in not English class
This sentence makes sense if you are not trying to be an asshole. here I will break it down for you.
Definitions of offensive on the Web:
violating or tending to violate or offend against; “violative of the principles of liberty”; “considered such depravity offensive against all laws of humanity”
for the purpose of attack rather than defense; “offensive weapons”
causing anger or annoyance; “offensive remarks”
unsavory: morally offensive; “an unsavory reputation”; “an unsavory scandal”
unpleasant or disgusting especially to the senses; “offensive odors”
Plus this has nothing to do with you anyway so fuck off!!!
So basically I was right, he was benched for Hollins.
Pretty much what I thought, I was correct, you were wrong but you tried to word it differently so it would seem like you know what your talking about but you consistently don’t and that is fine. You constantly prove that your lack of basketball knowledge by saying things like Beasley is better than Love and believing that Darko is the answer at center, you prove that your the one living in a dream world when it comes to the actual game of basketball. You know your wrong so you do nothing but sling insults which show how feeble and pitiful your arguments are, but I do get it, its much easier to act like a child then make an argument to convince anyone but yourself.
Like I continued to say, and you continue to ignore because you won’t acknowledge anything that proves your wrong, you have no idea whether Lee would have played some center, it isn’t a stretch to believe that he would have seen minutes at center because he’s done it before and there aren’t a lot of true back to the basket centers in the league. Your stance is that you know for a fact that Lee would have never seen a minute at center because you know everything, if that were the case you wouldn’t be just fall out wrong in every argument you have made regardless of what the topic is concerning.
Love wasn’t benched because he and Al were pfs he was benched because he and Al couldn’t co-exist defensively, which is yet something else you got wrong, it had nothing to do with Rambis wanting a true center because Hollins proved game after game that he wasn’t the answer. Even though Al is probably a better center then pf and would be much better defensively if he gave a damn on that end.
Oh and your last sentence made no sense, I’m going to need you to enroll in an English class or ten so you can stop continually making the simplest of grammar mistakes, proofread them before you post them and stop making excuses for for your awful grammar and numerous misspellings.
woah Chuck
chill it down dude, you’re gonna flame out on here
i’ve read you on numerous posts start flinging the proverbial furniture around. we’re all for debate and disagreement, but keep away from the personal attacks.
by Django Z on Aug 11, 2010 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You did not even read my post
I said Big all makes it on the All star team. The Jazz will make the playoffs too but I was talking about the All star game.
I'd take that bet
Was Boozer an all star last year? He went for around 20/11 by the all star break but was not selected. I doubt Jefferson outperforms Boozer on that team. Less familiarity with the offense and a worse fit for the system. Boozer also put up those numbers with an efficiency that Jefferson has never even dreamed of, suggestnig the volume of shots is not there from that position to give Jefferson a chance for that output. The only thing working in his favor is Amare going East.
NO it was not questionable.
Maybe questionable for somebody that does not watch enough games but people who pay some attention to the game said that Al Jefferson should be in the all star game, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dbzurp7ChFM&feature=related
Not questionable?
So, no debate, he should have gone to the all star game? And for proof you link to a bunch of commentators debating whether he should have gone to the all star game? Do they not watch enough basketball games (your standard fall back argument)?
They did what most people here at Hoopus does
Looked at his stats that year. That is why its debatable
I think it's fair.
He was clearly better than David West that year, holding edges in both raw stats and advanced metrics.
Indy is apparently buying out T.J. Ford, too
So things are looking brighter there. Although Granger did hurt his finger with Team USA the other day, but it shouldn’t be that serious.
My advanced stat could beat up your advanced stat!
In a separate move, NO traded Julian Wright to TOR for Marco Bellinelli
I guess the Hornets really want to shake things up.
My advanced stat could beat up your advanced stat!
Indy has to be kicking in a pick to NO
Only way this trade makes sense for NO.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 11, 2010 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions
No mention of picks in ESPN's story
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5455472
ESPN seem to be framing this as “CP3 finally getting the help he needs”. I don’t know if Trevor Ariza is really what he had in mind.
My advanced stat could beat up your advanced stat!
There goes espn with more bullshit
do these guys watch the games ???
if Paul buys that then I pity his sense of realism.
of should I say lack thereof. As a player you want to maintain organizational flexibility with adding pieces when you need them. As KG how playing for an organization that can’t seem to get over the hump went. BOS can pay mad money to guys because of their market…NO can’t. Which means NO needs to add trade value as well as getting players that fit.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 11, 2010 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Paul is not going to buy it
He is going to leave NO. That place should not even have a team. let alone a player like Paul. the only reason why he back down from his trade demand is that he saw what the media is doing to James. He cant afford that kind of a hit on his PR.
I do find it interesting that this is basically Daryl Morey
admitting that he made a mistake with the Trevor Ariza signing.
Considering the guff that Kahn got about trading Sessions/Hollins one year after signing them – and the praise that Morey usually gets – I wonder if anyone will be willing to criticize Morey on this one. I’d bet not.
My advanced stat could beat up your advanced stat!
Yep right again Mr. Allen
Ariza is a role player thats it.
WHAT!!!!!
ESPN would have a double standard when it comes to ripping GMs for doing the same thing? Never…couldn’t be..they’d never do such a thing.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 11, 2010 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Minnesota vs. Houston
Kahn’s team versus Morey’s team is an interesting comparison of franchises and what fans want and expect from their teams. Morey makes moves to keep Houston competitive, and also prevent them from ever contending for a championship. Kahn’s team is terrible, but he seems reluctant to start truly building until he lands a franchise cornerstone to build around.
I think the Kahn approach is riskier and will get him fired sooner, if he doesn’t win a draft lottery and if Rubio is less than spectacular. Without a John Wall or Harrison Barnes type of talent, the Wolves are probably not going to make any noise in the future Western Conference. If the best this thing gets is where Houston is now, and it came at the expense of so many bad seasons, the Morey Method looks pretty damn good in comparison. But, if we luck out and land the franchise’s second great player in history, the suffering will have been worth it.
I also think Kahn is trying to sell how are team plays.
Up tempo style is more pleasing to the fans but harder to find players that fit to this style.
It's a little hard to damn Morey given career-threatening injuries to his two centerpieces.
Dude keeps righting the ship despite how many years now, running, in which the team’s enduring injury concerns to T-Mac/Yao?
Rocket fans perspective
The basic gist of it is pro-Morey guys:
I doubt this is just a salary cap dump as some of us here are saying. If Morey is making this trade it is to better the team, both now and in the future. Les has said all a long that he’s willing to pay the luxury tax, that he believes this year is special, so I’m not inclined to believe this is solely a financial move. I could be wrong, but this team, this club is clearly dedicated to winning. I can recall many a time that we haven’t understood what Morey was doing (drafting AB, Clutchfans had a meltdown, not saying that we’re Clutchfans or anything…) but it always, and I mean always works out! Let’s let this one play out, Morey always has an ace up his sleeve. – ressaliance_00
The luxury tax fans:
meh
Good for our owner’s pockets, that’s for sure. will probably see more PP as a result of this, and I have always like C. Lee’s game. – ainsworth
And the one that could have been written about Sessions or Al/Pek:
this deal is a steal for the rox
We got Ariza when his stock was high, but his overall skill set is what it is. I always thought the Ariza signing was opportunistic — there will always be a market for him, so we grab him when he’s the best guy available at a reasonable price (at the time). Now’s the right time to ditch him too, because the coming CBA is probably going to make everyone tighten their belt — and his contract will look worse.
In my eyes they are comparable players, one’s just MUCH CHEAPER. And we can definitely always swing another trade with Lee if we need to. We just swapped two useable pieces, and kept our options open without really downgrading our talent.
This is a good trade. – b.radley
followed by:
Problem with that logic
is making that value come out in an actual trade without bundling too much. The Rockets need a few large contracts for trade flexibility since trading is their MO. Lee will pull something like 2 mil a year. If he bursts out of the gate and blows minds, how many comparable players do you know that we can land for a 2 million dollar contract and a handjob? – BD34
See, CH? We aren’t alone in questioning the motives and value realization of the moves our FO makes. I guess everybody needs a handjob every now and again.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
Hah, that's a nice summary. Great stuff.
Although I don’t understand, like your first commentor said, how this improves Houston on the court. Lee isn’t any better than Brewer in my opinion.
My advanced stat could beat up your advanced stat!
Morey should not be criticized
and Kahn should not have been criticized either.
But yeah, I would bet that Morey gets applauded. He should be applauded. Ariza is overpaid.
I would drive 10 miles to hear fucktwats sing.
But Morey is the one who overpaid him
so shouldn’t he be criticized for overpaying a player and then dumping him a year later for a worse player?
My advanced stat could beat up your advanced stat!
If Morey was Kahn he would be riped a new one
He trades his top free agent for a guy that is going to be a back up. When Kahn did this he traded back up for cap space. I would rather have Cap space than a back up
no
He could be criticized for signing him
but not for dumping him once he realized it was a mistake.
I should be criticized for putting my hand on hot burner and burning myself. But should I be criticized for correcting my mistake and limiting the damage to my hand by removing it from the burner?
In other words, it would have been worse for the Rockets to keep Ariza on the team. Thus, a good move to dump him.
I would drive 10 miles to hear fucktwats sing.
Big difference
Morey did get a usuable player back for Ariza, Courtney Lee.
Kahn got back one guy to buy out plus Bassy Telfair, and gave up a pick to do it. I don’t find much fault with signing Sessions or Hollins, but somehow Kahn’s “assets” keep becoming liabilities.
Wouldn’t it be neat if just once a Timberwolves draft pick turned out like Collison?
It is a difference but Ariza's ceiling was a lot higher (or supposed to be)
than Sessions or Hollins. And Courtney Lee is not exactly a great piece, in my opinion.
But we’re both in agreement that Kahn didn’t do a great job with those signings. Maybe Wesley Johnson will turn out like Collison.
My advanced stat could beat up your advanced stat!
Indiana definitely 'wins' in terms of the alignment of their roster.
All last summer I was waiting on Kahn to do similar stuff involving our wing spots, you know? It seemed so obvious. It seemed like he might just be patient about it. But there’s patience, and then there’s just undercutting a whole season.
Indy showed a similar ‘patient’ approach here.
thanks dropstep I think you said it all.
As far as the trade goes, I like Ariza to NO.
seems
like quite the difference a year can make for Ariza. Last year he was a building block for Houston, this year he’s role-playing help for CP3.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
And the year before that he was winning a championship ring
He’s going the wrong way.
My advanced stat could beat up your advanced stat!
Except
Getting paid millions to play a game EVERY year.
I wish I had his job. :-)
by Cedarpenguin on Aug 11, 2010 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, sure, I think most of us do. =)
But if you were Trevor Ariza, you probably couldn’t help but feel a twinge of regret when you saw Ron Artest celebrating his championship.
My advanced stat could beat up your advanced stat!
He does have a ring, though. It’s not like the Lakers were sucking wind when he was there then Artest got lucky.
A question: Can you think of a player who spent years with one team without a championship, then left that team or got traded only to see his old team win it right after he was gone? Don Mattingly the Yankee comes to mind. The Pistons got good after Grant Hill left, but that took a couple years.
Nomar? Tiki Barber?
Can’t think of any basketball guys.
My advanced stat could beat up your advanced stat!
Does not make sense to me...
This year SHOULD be Love’s year. He should be extremely excited about this season to prove himself as the player he says/thinks he is. We obviously chose hime over big Al, so he should feel pretty appreciated by the wolves right now. He needs to realize he IS our star player, and needs to act like a leader of this young team. I honestly think this is a bad sign of things to come with Love.
The only way for players to follow love he has to do two things
1 destroy everybody in practice . B-Easy -Anthony Tolliver Darko
2 become the teams 1 scoring option.
I dont think he is capable of doing any of these things. He has never shown it in games. I HAVE NEVER SEEN HIM TAKE OVER A GAME. For the two years he has been here. I have seen him take over a game. I have seen B-Easy do it a few times.
I don't know if I really agree with that
Maybe the first one, but definitely not the second one. Many teams have leaders that aren’t the best player on the team and definitely aren’t the #1 scoring option. Look at Derek Fisher. That guy is nowhere close to the most talented guy on that team – and probably couldn’t “destroy” Farmar or Brown in practice – but he’s definitely one of the leaders of that team (and Kobe said he is the only player who he listens to in that locker room).
Leadership, to me, is much more than how talented a player is. It’s much more about attitude.
My advanced stat could beat up your advanced stat!
Thats true about fish he is more like big brother type of leader though
He is there version of Brain Cardinal
So Mr Allen do you think Klove has the attitude to be a leader
I don’t think so. Fish was coming of the bench at one time and he never complained about his role. he might go to the bench this year I don’t think we will hear anything from him.
Well unlike some things, I think attitude is one thing that can be changed
Look at Kobe as an example. 2004 Kobe was a terrible leader. But 2009-2010 Kobe is a pretty good one who teammates look to for a lot of things.
I think Love has the capability to be a leader. He’s obviously a pretty bright guy who understands the game very well. He’s immensely talented, even if he’s not a #1 scoring option. I think if he embraces a leadership role, bonds with his teammates and doesn’t act like he thinks he’s better than everyone else, then sure, he could be a leader. I hope that happens.
My advanced stat could beat up your advanced stat!
You have more faith than I do.
Kobe is still a jerk. The only reason why Kobe leads his team is because he is the one they call upon to win them games. If he did not do this, other players on that team would not stand for his shit. The same would apply to klove if he does not change his attitude.
Well, to be fair, I think Kobe is more of a leader
because A) His play is declining and he knows he can’t carry the team every night anymore and B) He has better talent around him. It’s a lot easier to lead a team when you don’t have to watch Smush Parker and Kwame Brown in practice everyday. So, you’re probably right in that sense.
But I don’t think you have to be a nice guy to be a leader. I mean, KG isn’t exactly the nicest guy in the world, but he’s still one of the undisputed leaders of that team.
I understand your point of view, and in a way, I agree with it. But I don’t think the window is shut on Love to become a leader on this team with more experience (and more winning).
My advanced stat could beat up your advanced stat!
If love changes his tune than the best bet for him is to be like Fish
I still think for a running team the best spot for him is to be a super sub. if he cant handle it then trade him. you are right he does still have time to grow up.
Timing is everything
I think we all agree that Love needs to step up and embrace a leader role. I hope he does, but it needs to be soon. Look at Steven Jackson… At one point (Indiana at Detroit) he wasn’t exactly a leader. Then he went to the warriors and before you know it they were calling him captain Jack. Baron was also a leader on that team, so I’m not saying love has to be the only leader. I’m Just saying he needs to be one of them.
Definitely true. Teams need more than one leader to be successful
My advanced stat could beat up your advanced stat!
Think B-Easy can be the other leader?
Timing is right for him too…
yeah he could be one
He was the leader for his college team.
Good point
He was a big fish in a small pond there. Now he kinda has the same thing going on here. It may just work out. They always have johnny Flynn as the hype man…
I think the players would gravitate toward him faster than in other player on the team
He knows where his teammates come from. Plus He more to prove than in other player on the wolves.
If I had to pick one, I'd say Martell
He’s a vet. He’s played with Roy and some other mentally tough guys. In all of his interviews that I’ve seen, he comes across as a great guy who is well-spoken. I think he could be a great influence in that locker room this year.
My advanced stat could beat up your advanced stat!
I can't pick one now that I think about it
Hell Corey Brewer could be the leader this year. Martell is a good call. Just got married, and in all his interviews he says how excited he is for a new chance. Looks like the whole team of lottery picks has something to prove. Especially Darko!!!!
Those two guys are good choices
Brewer has already started working out with B-easy and KD. Webster would be the OG for the team. He fits the Fish role perfectly
that is true. But I think Darko and B-easy
Hands down these two have more to prove than anybody on our team.
That's what actually has me excited about this years team
I have no clue what to expect. Any of about 7 players are playing with a chip on their shoulder and could just blow up this year. Hope they all do…
I the wolves could be the redeem team more than team usa
The world knows we are the best at basketball but sometimes we get lazy and don’t play team ball like the rest of world. So there was no real redemption IMO.
Agreed
Its good to see an argentina or a spain every once and a while, but USA basketball doesn’t have a rival yet. If the wolves come back to win 30 games this year I’ll be happy with that.
Love already backtracking on comments?
From Truehoop on Team USA:
Kevin Love tried to do a little backtracking after telling NBA.com that he felt more appreciated by Team USA than he does with the Minnesota Timberwolves. “I was a little shocked last year to be coming of the bench, but this year is a new year, obviously Al Jefferson is out of there and that will open some minutes for me. (Nikola) Pekovic is there, and Michael Beasley will play some 3 and 4, so hopefully I’ll have an opportunity to play more than the 28 minutes I played last year. I’m hoping to play 30-plus and get an opportunity to win a starting job.”
Advice to Love and Kahn
Take it easy, Champ. Why don’t you sit this next one out, stop talking for a while.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Aug 11, 2010 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Hmm, sounds like he at least isn't tone deaf
he knows he screwed up and didn’t play mediaball
that’s a good sign
Once again this is not about Love the player....
Suffice it to say that players must earn their playing time. Love will not necessarily be handed playing time this coming season, as before, he’ll have to earn it. Frankly, despite the absence of Jefferson, there are no give-mes. Pek might rotate to the 4, Beasley certainly deserves a shot for playing time at the 4 too. And Tolliver is not simply going to roll over on the bench.
The bigger issue that some have completely missed is Love’s immaturity. Hell, I myself like a free speaking kinda guy. But the history on Love in the NBA is replete with communications miscues and later revisions. Announcing McHale’s departure on Twitter, etc. etc. etc. to the point where he no longer uses Twitter at all.
Love has always been in the spotlight, something he has become accustomed to since high school. He was so upset last season that he threw the rest of the Wolves under the bus by saying he was “shocked” he didn’t start on such a losing team. (If I (he) was playing for the Lakers or Celtics I (he) would understand coming off the bench).
Love is and should be a foundation player on the Wolves team, but there is more than on-court performance involved in Rambis’ decision as to how many minutes to play him. No one is entitled to start or play the majority of minutes. It must be earned by performance on the court and what transpires between the ears and through the mouth.
Breaking down cognitive dissonance and group think since gasoline was cheap.
i agree. he reminds me of cwybaby cwistian laettner.
do you remember his comments that “nobody on the team knows how to win”…
only he does because he went to duke and played on the dream team. that cracked me up.
kevin love should get an agent that will monitor his public image better.
phuckin' machine took my quarter.
by speed-racer on Aug 11, 2010 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Iv'e never seen so much ado about nothing.
God what prejudice some of you have. The man didn’t say anything that wasn’t true your reading an awful lot between the lines.
Over 190 comments
and not a peep about ESPN dubbing the Wolves the worst team in the NBA next year by 9 games in the West and the worst team from the East is 7 games better than the Wolves. I am willing to accept that with rosters as they stand right now and barring major injuries, the Wolves will be the worst in the West. But not by that much. I don’t think that the Clippers, Warriors and Kings have seperated themselves that much and with the improvements to the Wolves roster they will get something closer to mid 20s for wins. .
The East is the really bunggled and botched effort by their 93 experts. I am guessing that they are taking it easy on Cleveland and not wanting to tell the truth for fear that it will seem like piling on. Cleveland has been through a lot with the loss of the King, but that is no reason to cut them slack in the preseason prediction. 30 wins with Mo Williams as the stud on the team! Are they serious? Cleveland could easily go from best record to worst record in a year. Not sure that the Raptors can win much more than 20 and the Nets need Harris to perform much better than last year to climb past 25 wins.
Between Cleveland, NJ and Toronto the Wolves will find themselves better than two of those teams and my guess is that Cleveland and Toronto will be those teams since I can’t see either picking up more than 20 wins.
And of course in their prediction on the Wolves they had to mention how baffled they are by the moves from Kahn.
We talked about it some over at Twolves Central
I agree that the Wolves being worst in the league by 7 games seems pretty silly. They’ve upgraded the talent across the board IMO. Losing Big Al is a hit, but Love/Pek/Beasley will probably be able to fill in a lot of the missing production. Wolves will have better wing play and perhaps better PG play (fit-wise).
CLE, WAS, and TOR are going to struggle. Their only saving grace is they play in the East where they get to play a ton of other crummy teams 4 times each per year.
CHA may take a step back after losing Felton and Chandler and with Next Town Brown likely also on the way out.
PHI is going to struggle unless Turner and AI2 blend together better than everyone seems to think. NJN has added a bunch of role players, a decent vet PF, and a good coach, so they’ll likely improve a bit.
I thought IND would be awful this year but their heist of Collison boosts them a lot I think.
I know our friends from GSoM won’t agree, but I think the GSW struggle again this year. Until they dump Nelly and get a better fitting player in return for Moped, I think that team will be about the same. Lee doesn’t play any D, and Maggette at least got them points at the FT line.
In the end, I think the Wolves season rests on Beasley. We know what Love can produce, and most of the rest of the guys are role players. If the Wolves are going to take a jump up in the standings before Rubio gets here, it will be due to Beasley returning to his college studly ways or a mid-season trade for a very good wing IMO.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Aug 11, 2010 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions
"before rubio gets here"???
If the Wolves are going to take a jump up in the standings before Rubio gets here.
i have read several commets on this board like this and i scratch my head.
do people really think that rickey rubio is ever going to wear a timberwolves uniform?
i admit that i totally doubt rickey rubio will ever be a timberwolf. i don’t even think about rubio other than what kahn will take in return for his rights, and that scares me (how a bout a conditional second round pick and a delonte west contract dump again, just kidding, just kidding).
phuckin' machine took my quarter.
by speed-racer on Aug 11, 2010 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Evidence?
A lot of what goes on here is conjecture, and that’s fine, but the timberwolves haven’t given any indication of wanting to trade him.
ha-ha, no i meant...
i don’t think that rubio wants to play in minnesota and he will somehow force the t-wolves to trade his rights away. granted, it’s just my impression, but he looked pretty sullen wearing that wolves hat at the draft. he was polite, but obviously he did not want to get drafted by the pups. he bought himself some time, but i don’t think he wants to end up here if he plays in the nba.
phuckin' machine took my quarter.
We have been over this ad naseum
If Ricky wants to play in the NBA, we have a roster shaped for his talents and the money to pay him then he will play here. Signing him to a long term deal is another matter. But NBA rookies are not free agents and have not earned their rights yet. His options are play in europe and wonder what could have been or play for the wolves. Do not forget that the money he can make off of being a global player via endorsements is much greater than just being a spanish sensation.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 12, 2010 8:24 AM CDT up reply actions
at the end of the day
it is about the money. Which he will get. So isn’t the discussion moot? Could he have made more for a year or two in NY? Sure, but he doesn’t have that option.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 12, 2010 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions
I think there is some way he is not bound to rookie scale
I think that if he waits until the 2012-2013 season he will not be bound to rookie scale. So he will be able to negotiate salary at that time. The Wolves will still have his rights, but the salary and contract length will not be like that of a rookie.
.
agreed
And it may come down to that unless the two sides prevent a lockout. Another reason I don’t expect the wolves to sign big time free agents next year either. They are saving their space to make sure they have room for Ricky.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 12, 2010 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes I do
The kid wants to play in the NBA and if that is the case, the Twin Cities are his destination.
rrrricky says, "oh rrrreally, we shall see about that"
.

where eez my agent, i am going to castrrrate heem.
phuckin' machine took my quarter.
At this point...
…it’s not even worth getting mad about. I knew this would happen. There were probably a few reasonable takes, but the vast majority of paid NBA experts are neither smart nor knowledgeable, so the average of their takes was bound to be wrong. We can’t prove it to them yet, just have to wait for it to happen.
Mo sucks dude without LBJ
he is hardly a starting pg he will be bench he really is a small sg for sessions in the season starts Byron Scott. Anyway who cares why would we want hollowed out team to win more 25 games which without LBJ is most likely
by KahningPups on Aug 14, 2010 12:38 AM CDT up reply actions

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