Wolves Updates 8/27
by SG on Aug 27, 2010 2:09 AM CDT
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Reasons to watch FIBA World Championship
From Vincent Thomas/ESPN: Reasons to watch World Championship
Ricky Rubio sightings: Minnesota drafted the precocious virtuoso in 2009, but we haven't seen him since. He told Minnesota president David Kahn and the Timberwolves to kick rocks. He is the most hyped international prospect since Darko Milicic, but in Rubio's case, we should believe the hype. He might look like actor Jay Baruchel or some other dude where you wouldn't be afraid to, say, flirt with his girlfriend while he's standing next to her, but he plays like a beast. He's a cross between Pistol Pete Maravich, Jamal Crawford and Steph Curry. Rubio, who will no-look-pass you to death, is the most entertaining player in the tournament. The next month is your only chance to catch a glimpse of him for at least the next year.
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No respect
If it had been New York or some big market team that had his rights the story would have read:
“Realizing that his fixed NBA rookie salary, after taxes and agent fees wouldn’t have covered his massive buyout, he wisely postponed his dream to play in the NBA for two more years.” but in the Minnesota/David Kahn version of the story Ricky tells them to “F*** off!”.
Just wait you east coast city slicker sports writers. Just you wait.
Yep
Just about sums it up, i think Calderons injury is a blesing in disguise for us, we know what he can do in short stints but now he will have to carry the load for the majority of the tournament. Loving how in the 2 games against team USA he has schooled both Rose and Kidd!
When exactly did he school Rose?
I watched most of the game and never got the impression that Rubio schooled Rose. I do distinctly remember Rose blowing by him once though. He made Rubio look bad on that play. Other than that he played really solid defense the entire time and picked Rose’s pocket once or twice. I don’t exactly consider that to be a schooling though.
Sam Cassell for Marko Jaric? That's ridiculous! I would never have traded Sam Cassell for Marko Jaric.
- Sam Cassell on McHale's decisions while running the Timberwolves.
Yup
Pretty much sick of espn writers,do they know anything about the situation? Do your damn job,lazy writing.
by bringthesun on Aug 27, 2010 7:19 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Wise up
Let’s enter the real world people where “fans” actually look at things rationally. Rubio is not going to come here with the team Kahn has assembled. It would be more enticing if Kahn wasn’t completely incompetent.
Opinion
Let’s not use the terms “realism,” “real world” or “rationally” to justify your opinion on whether or not Rubio comes to the wolves. They have nothing to do with your opinion as currently stated. Your comments are written in a manner that should use the words, “impression” or “interpretation” instead.
Your opinion is that Rubio won’t come here because of the cast of characters, and Kahn being incompetent. That’s cool. It may be right or it may be wrong. But from all accounts, Ricky liked dealing with Rambis (who players seem to naturally respect).
The bigger question in my opinion is whether or not Wes, Webster, Beasley, Love and one of Darko or Pek show enough this year to cause Ricky to reevaluate how he views the talent level. Point blank is that assuming Kahn got the players that Rambis wanted this offseason (that they could reasonably obtain) it is on Rambis and his staff to get these players in situations to succeed. If they do that, I think Ricky comes over (no muss no fuss).
If not, then let the drama unfold.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 27, 2010 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Thank you
Proffesor,couldn’t have said it better.
by bringthesun on Aug 27, 2010 10:06 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
It amazes me that intelligent hoops fans would call Kahn incompetent
He has changed out the roster, gained youth and athleticism and retained cap space and flexibility. He’s been playing the free agent market just right, paying almost nothing out while gaining Beasley, who will almost certainly improve his already productive numbers, Webster who will contend as a starter, and Tolliver who is an intriguing backup. We also gained a decent PG who will be perfect backing up Ricky when he comes, and also be a good supplement to Flynn.
And we still have cap space, which can be used to sign a major talent, or just be used to pick up productive players opportunistically, like we did with Beasley.
Some fans may look at Kahn as incompetent, but Taylor has to be delighted. He has a much more entertaining team, such a low salary level that it’s under the league minimum, a coaching staff that goes beyond credibility to become a draw for players, and a superstar in waiting who if he does not come to the Wolves will be the most highly sought player available in a year or two — in other words, trade bait for another superstar.
Oh, I forgot to mention draft picks, more euro stash players, and the best Euro scout in the world.
This is an impressive management feat. Let’s give Kahn some credit. It takes luck to get a superstar in the draft, and Kahn was lucky in getting Rubio’s rights, and so were we as fans. The moves Kahn has made since then in filling out the roster have been highly competent. We can complain about Flynn over Curry, but that is a nit when you look at where we are at compared to where we were when Kahn took the reins.
In fact, if Ricky does come over, Flynn may prove to be just as beneficial as Curry, given the roles available on a Rubio led team. A microwave off the bench is a role that is available, and Flynn fits that very well. And if not, he is also an asset worth something on the market.
I like where we are at. And I have to laugh at those who think that Kahn is incompetent. There is no way to look at the team today objectively and say that his moves have been anything less than highly competent. But that, of course, is just my humble opinion.
As you probably know
Your opinion is quite opposite that of “intelligent” basketball analysts, who CH think are uninformed for some reason. Your opinion is valued, but I think entirely wrong.
Much like Kahn you don’t understand the economics of drafting and free agency. Fair value of assets is not in his or your vocabulary.
I really don’t have time to write a full analysis of the economics/fair value of assets again, but search through some of my posts and you will find one.
Clearly not Rational
You clearly have a grudge against Kahn and the Wolves. That is fine. You are free to do that. But don’t pretend that you aren’t biased. You are very biased and sounding angry and petty at some sports organization. Which is weird. Because they are just a business who are not trying to personally hurt you so I don’t know why you are getting so emotionally invested in them.
Personally, looking at the situation from a rational, dispassionate view, Kahn has been here one year. He has upgraded every position. He has acquired the best player in Europe, Ricky, for nothing. He has acquired the best center in Europe, Pek. He has acquired the near-number one pick two years ago, Beasley, for nothing. He has cleared out space for one of the top up-and-coming players in the NBA, Love. And he has maintained all our cap space for the future.
I just can’t muster up the vitriol against Kahn that so many show. It seems like from a logical standpoint he is doing a pretty good job and that the complainers just fall in to the small minority of obsessive fans that react with fury when the organization’s plans don’t coincide with those they dream up in their armchairs.
Rationality is not the same as being impartial...
Do you understand that they aren’t mutually exclusive?
And I never said I wasn’t bias, everyone here has a bias…
Others
Who don’t work for ESPN have actually had good things to say about this team and the job Kahn has done. You can even find links to them on this website.
This is Kahn’s second year with the team, and I like where he has positioned us.
If there’s not a lockout Rubio will be here next year. And then what are ya going to have to say?
correct
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 27, 2010 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Rubio
I would like nothing more for Rubio to come over. He’s a stud. Luckily it required no thought because otherwise Kahn would have screwed it up.
I’m sorry to say that Kahn has pretty much failed at maximizing value (or even understanding it for that matter) in everything else he’s done.
Will CH continue to defend Kahn when we’re the worst team in the league this coming year? When will the blind “fan” defending stop and reality set in? You can absolutely be a fan and not support the actions of management. The questioning of management decisions is what makes fans intelligent.
There has been no shortage
of questioning management on this board. Look back at the reactions to 2010 draft night. People were irate at all of the 1st round moves. Or look at the Flynn pick from the previous draft. Same story. Foye and Miller for #5? Controversial at the time!
The fact remains that so far, when the dust settles after these moves, we are a better team than we were before. The best team possible, with fully-maximized assets? Maybe not, although across the board, the answer is “Too Early To Tell”. But there is improvement every step of the way so far, which, to a group who grew accustomed to McHale’s “Status Quo + a Vet” offseason plan, is not that different from a miracle.
Next thing you know, they'll take my thoughts away.
by losDelFuego on Aug 27, 2010 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed.
Fair point on all of the above.
I often pick the articles that have the pro-Kahn opinions, but I agree there are many others like me out there. Both are very loud depending on the article.
Call Me GM, I have to disagree with you again
What conventional (and intelligent) management thinkers call “getting fair value” is, in my opinion, another way to say “slowing things down”.
The quality of the team and the roster when Kahn took over was abysmal. It had to be changed. Trades were made that, in isolation, can be fairly criticized as sub-optimal in terms of getting fair value. But the net result, as I said before, is rapid change of the roster, upgrades at each position, with youth and athleticism.
And we still have so much cap space that we could be under the league minimum, we have no long term albatross contracts, we have draft picks and we have players stashed.
I prefer to look at the outcome, and the speed of this change, as positives. If we got less for Al than he was worth, what would we have gotten that was better? More contracts of people we don’t need just slows the rate of change.
The metabolic rate of change of this organization is exceptionally high. Some sacrifices were made in terms of optimizing value for players, but it was done in order to preserve flexibility and the chance to pick up bargains opportunistically. I’ll take that tradeoff any day.
The net result is better than anyone expected. I call that good management. And if “maximizing value” is what the previous front office did, I’d say it’s a tactic to be avoided.
But hey, maybe I’m stupid.
by timmuggs on Aug 27, 2010 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I can see reasons for optimism
if that’s what you’re looking for, but to say “the net result is better than anyone expected” seems a little premature to me.
Three of the four guys Kahn got last off-season that could have been part of the long-term plan (Flynn, Sessions, and Hollins) did not have good years and two of them are already gone. Only Ellington played up to or beyond expectations (at least mine).
We don’t know what we’re going to get from Kahn’s moves this off-season. I am happy that Kahn has avoided / cleared out bad contracts, so we can re-re-re-re-build more quickly if this one fails. But to say that things have worked out well assumes a level of performance next season that we’ve yet to observe on the court.
For me, Kahn has been pretty good at tearing things down and setting up an environment for success (cap space, draft picks, etc.). Whether he (and Rambis and Ronzone) can build the team up into anything worth watching is still an open question.
when you look at
where the position the organization is in today vs. how we got to this point over the last few years,
it’s easier to see the potential their is to make signficant improvements.
we now have young players, future draft picks, low salary cap which comes in the wake of upheaval, a culture of mchale maneuvers, lots of kahn moves, lots of losing and a bad product to root for.
i don’t like a lot of the way in which kahn has gone about his business so far, in getting us to this point. but i don’t disagree with a lot of what he got rid of, and some of the pick ups he’s made. it’s a mixed bag, imo. and there is more change that needs to occur. i do see reason for optimism once i clear away some of the dust.
i think you make a lot of good points on what he has acquired. now i’d like to see what he is going to do with what he’s got to work with. this next phase, starting this year, will be more telling to me about his overall perormance. that’s just my view.
phuckin' machine took my quarter.
"The next month is your only chance to catch a glimpse of him for at least the next year."
I’m surprised this is coming from ESPN, considering they air many of Rubio’s games on ESPN3.
The usual thorough research and fact checking is at work, clearly.
“We haven’t seen him since” the night he was drafted, evidently.
Is that the “royal we,” like when the queen mum uses it, or what?
"As long as a man stands in his own way, everything seems to be in his way." RWE
More prospects
International tournament are always interesting because you get to see a lot of talented players on a high level. If I were an NBA fan who doesn’t get to see a lot of international basketball, I’d love it. Plenty of non-NBA players that might play in the league sooner rather than later. Some names you should keep track of.
GERMANY
Robin Benzing (1989) is a 6’10’’ small forward who could be a second rounder in 2011. He’ll start for Germany at the three spot.
Elias Harris (1989) is backing up at the 3/4. Had a great season in Gonzaga, will play another year of college basketball, then enter the draft. Draftexpress have him at #16 in their 2011 mock draft.
Center Tibor Pleiss (1989) was drafted by the Oklahoma City Thunder at #31 this year. WC will be a learning experience for him.
Jan-Hendrick Jagla was a Los Angeles Clippers pick but he’s 29 now. Germany’s go to guy.
TURKEY
Omer Asik (1986) will join the Chicago Bulls next season. He has great tools and is a strong defensive presence but lost athleticism after a cruel knee injury and is a horrible sub-40% free throw shooter. Imo he could have an impact on the Bulls.
Semih Erden (1986) plays solid defense but that’s about it. Stagnation. Joins the Boston Celtics.
SPAIN
Victor Claver (1988) is a Portland Trail Blazers draftpick. 12th man on the Spanish roster.
Sergio Llull‘s (1987) (that’s right, four L’s) rights are held by the Houston Rockets. He’ll play a larger role now that Calderon is staying at home.
Fran Vazquez is the famous Orlando Magic draftpick that never boarded the plane. Backs up Marc Gasol. Athletic, highflyer, shotblocker.
CROATIA
Bojan Bogdanovic (1989) is a 2011 2nd rounder in the DX mockdraft. Tall SG/SF with a great jumpshot.
Ante Tomic‘s (1987) NBA rights are held by the Utah Jazz. He’s 7’1’’ and can score with either hand in the post. Had a breakout season with Real Madrid. Possible threat for Team USA on Saturday.
GREECE
Ioannis Bourousis (1983) was close to join the Spurs before last season. Intriguing center with a multi-faceted game.
Nick Calathes (1989) was picked in the 2nd round of the 2009 draft. Showed a lot of promise in preparation for this tournament.
Giorgios Printezis’ (1985) NBA rights are held by the Toronto Raptors. 10th guy on the Greek roster. Tweener.
Sofoklis Schortsanitis (1985) was drafted by the Los Angeles Clippers, played summer league there, but returned back to the Euroleague. Very efficient when utilised correctly.
LITHUANIA
Saw Robertas Javtokas live in 2001/02 for Rytas. Most athletic big man I’ve ever seen apart from Dwight Howard. Spurs drafted him, unfortunately had a motorcycle crash soon thereafter and never really got his outstanding athleticism back.
SERBIA
You know Nemanja Bjelica. Milan Macvan (1989) was MVP of the Nike Hoop Summit in 2009 after victory over John Wall’s USA. Can’t jump but has an excellent understanding of the game.
RUSSIA
Sasha Kaun’s (1985) rights are held by the Cleveland Cavaliers. Had a good year with CSKA Moscow.
Banger Timofey Mozgov (1986) is joining the New York Knicks. Athletic, rebounder, shotblocker, runs the floor like a deer.
FRANCE
Edwin Jackson (1989) could be a 2011 second rounder. Splendid shooter.
Nando de Colo (1987) is a San Antonio Spurs draftpick who had pretty solid season with Valencia. Comboguard with excellent pick and roll passing abilities and figuring to become a threat from distance. Saw him live together with Rodrigue Beaubois in 08/09. Both were horrible.
Plenty of excellent players out there. I just listed those connected to the NBA.
Pablo Prigioni, Dimitris Diamantidis, Felipe Reyes are some of the best players that have never played in the NBA. Since they’re all in their 30s now, it’s never going to happen.
Milos Teodosic (Serbia) went undrafted. He’s the 09/10 Euroleague MVP.
Of course there are more than enough non-European players in the tournament, like Brazil’s center Tiago Splitter, who is joining the San Antonio Spurs. Had a huge battle under the boards with Nikola Pekovic in the 2007/08 Euroleague quarter finals. Two big men going at each other with no respect for human life. And if you’re familar with Euroleague refereeing, you’ll know that’s no overstatement.
By the way, Kristic (3 games), Teodosic, Schortsanitis and Fotsis (all 2 games) were all suspended for mentioned number of games in Turkey following the Greece-Serbia brawl in Athens recently.
by in-the-game on Aug 27, 2010 8:42 AM CDT reply actions 6 recs
very nice list
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 27, 2010 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Calathes is more of a sour-grapes watch for us.
It was a Wolves’ pick that went that a’ way last year.
"As long as a man stands in his own way, everything seems to be in his way." RWE
With the Eurostyle Banging, Does that mean that
Pekovic will be a foul-a-minute guy in the NBA?
I sure hope not. The FIBA feeds say the guy is a “Monster”.
I’d hate to see him in constant foul trouble.
Hey NY...
…how’s Amare’s contract going to look in a couple years? Wouldn’t you love to have Rubio? Yup, thought so. See ya!
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
his twitter is...
twitter.com/vincecathomas
Let’s have multiple people tweet him asking for a single source where Rubio has expressed a concrete unwillingness to play for the Timberwolves.
Tell him to take his time, since he doesn’t seem to get the concept of “facts” and “sources.”
"Can someone please help me out, who did wolves pick, doesnt look too positive around here"
by Rasho Revolution on Aug 27, 2010 11:14 AM CDT reply actions
Thanks for the Table of more prospects.
Nicely worded comments IMO from “Evil Professor” on Rubio coming. Some questions are any of these potential high draft picks playing? Vesely, Montiejunas oor Valanciunas? and would some of these guys consider shortening their last names because I type badly as is.
It's a tailoring issue, too.
Those jersey sales are going only to fans with shoulders like a prize bull.
"As long as a man stands in his own way, everything seems to be in his way." RWE
Some questions are any of these potential high draft picks playing? Vesely, Montiejunas oor Valanciunas?
Unfortunately, none of the three.
Vesely’s Czech Republic isn’t participating, Motiejunas and Valanciunas (the latter is a bit too young anyway, having just turned 18) didn’t get the call for Lithuania’s final roster.
Truehoop with a much less anti-Wolves slant on Rubio in their 10 Things to Watch column:
Although Minnesota general manager David Kahn has been maligned for picking a player who stayed overseas, the truth is that Rubio is developing nicely, and his rights may be the Timberwolves’ most important basketball asset.
One of the sad things about this tournament is the great many players who will miss it due to injury, and Spanish point guard Jose Calderon is near the top of those who will be missed.
However, having the young and flashy Rubio as the unquestioned leader of one of the tournament’s best teams will make for good viewing, and good basketball. As M. Haubs of The Painted Area points out, “Calderon has a much lower turnover rate than Rubio, which could be key vs. the ball-hawking Americans, yet the Spanish were significantly better with Rubio on the floor Sunday (plus-19 vs. minus-20 by plus/minus).”
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
It'll be interesting to see whether Rubio's got some reins on as a result, too.
Off the bench he’s lightning in a bottle, but it may be he gets some different instructions as a starting PG. Maybe he pulls back some of those long, snap one-handed bounce passes on the break.
(Calderon is no sort of equal to Rubio defensively, either, if we’re talking about who should start when they’re both healthy.)
"As long as a man stands in his own way, everything seems to be in his way." RWE
I’m with you on the Calderon point. Rubio looks way better. The defense, the rebounding, I love it. I’m confident that the moment he arrives in the NBA, he’ll outplay Calderon. And I don’t hate Calderon at all. He’s regressed some, but he doesn’t exactly suck. He’s been getting a lot of unnecessary heat. That said, Rubio looks like a seasoned pro at 19. Scary thought. He’s still 6 years from his prime and is already playing at a high level. Plenty of room to grow, but his early performances are very encouaraging.
I’m also curious to see if they change Rubio’s role at all as a starter, but if he’s effective with his current play style, I wouldn’t miss with a good thing.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
Opener
Tyreke Evans was suspended for 1 game by the league for his driving crime. If I’m not mistaken, that will be the game versus Minnesota. Bummer for fans paying to watch the action, but probably a good chance at starting 1-0, just like last year!
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