Wolves Updates 8/30
by SG on Aug 30, 2010 8:18 PM CDT
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Coach K calls Love "outstanding," Love gets double-double in win over Slovenia and more
From Pete Thamel/New York Times: Tall and Nimble, Kevin Love Fits His Role for U.S.
"Kevin has been outstanding," Coach Mike Krzyzewski said. "Rebounds per minutes, he’s off the charts."
He added, "We have a lot of confidence in Kevin."
Love has fought through a broken hand and two losing seasons in Minnesota, and it has been easy to overlook his rare skills. He has flypaper hands, a soft shooting touch and is the Tom Brady of N.B.A. outlet passers. Ben Howland, who coached Love at U.C.L.A., calls him the Big Fundamental.
"The international game demands more skill, the ability to pass and play zones, to catch the ball in the high post and be able to make the passes he’s capable of making," Howland said in a telephone interview. "I don’t know that there’s a better big-man passer out there."
From Jonah Ballow's twitter account:
F Kevin Love VIDEO after scoring 10 pts & grabbing 11 rebs in win over Slovenia: http://j.mp/aVXuUM
Kevin Love is beastly. He’s now got 21 boards in 26:38 of playing time over the last two days. That’s 31.5 rebounds per 40 minutes. Not bad.
"That’s what I do," he says. "That’s how I make my money."
He admits, though, that his role is a little different than it is back in Minnesota.
"Playing with all these guys, they definitely open up the floor. I know that if I’m going to stay in the game and play minutes, I have to get out there and get every rebound. That’s kind of what coach tells me. Right before I go in the game, he says ‘get me every rebound.’"
And coach Mike Krzyzewski will probably be telling him that a little earlier in the game on Monday.
From Hal Spivack/Fanhouse: Spain, Rubio Showcase Talent Against New Zealand at FIBA Worlds
Sure - can you see Carmelo agreeing to an extension with the Kings or Timberwolves? Neither team is anywhere close to being in the playoffs, and giving up the number of pieces they'd have to give up to land Carmelo would put them even further away from the postseason. And, of course, there's absolutely no chance Carmelo would sign an extension in either of those places.
From Charley Walters/Pioneer Press:
The Timberwolves' Kevin Love had a cameo on a recent episode of HBO's "Entourage."
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I know Kevin love is good player
but doest it seem weird to anybody that the 10-11th man is getting more press then Kevin Durant and Rudy Gay and others that have played more and have done more for team USA.
You know it's a Wolves site, right?
For less-biased coverage, see:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/
http://nba.fanhouse.com/
etc.
Harder to find any mention of Love in non-Wolves sites.
Next thing you know, they'll take my thoughts away.
I have seen him interviewed on nba.com hoopshype and other news outlets
So no its not just this site. Just because its they label it as Kevin Durant teams doest mean he is getting the interviews or the pub. I think the guys at t wolves blog have some good points about this strange phenomena.
Maybe it’s because of what a weird anomoly it is for a guy to be that dominant on the boards for a two game stretch, but I guess I haven’t seen that much pub for him beyond those two games of murderering folks on the glass. What all have you been seeing about him?
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
you name it he has been on it
hoopshype nba.com si.com. slam online and many other sites. this was before the games even started so I don’t know what is going on
All I saw as far as Love coverage went were all the “bubble players” conversations and then the stuff about his rebounding. I don’t know, maybe I just didn’t see it. It is weird for his name to be everywhere, if that’s what was happening. I have no answers for you on that one.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
I read a lot this summer
so I have seen a lot of articles more about him then other players on team USA. I have never seen him on the bubble once lee and stat could not play.
Well, Love definitely stands out on this team
He has also done a lot of national interviews this summer unrelated to the Worlds. Dan PatrickShow, and that ESPN interview in a bar where they pair an athlete with another entertainer. Plus he played for a huge market in college. Joe 6 pack hockey fan who might tune in for the championship still doesn’t know who Durant is…yet.
by fanslaststand on Aug 30, 2010 10:22 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Durant is rather shy
while Love is very outgoing… Why other players like Rose, Billups and Iguadala don’t get press I don’t know.
Yep, Love is a good interview
That means that members of the press like him, they know they can spend some time with him and get a good story that is easy to write.
Also, there is a good chance that he will break some news, or say something controversial. So of course a good journalist will want to talk to Love, and lazy ones will too — that includes pretty much the whole gamut of journalists.
Finally, Love is a unique player — a 21 year old who is almost the best rebounder in the league and likely to be as dominant in rebounding as the elite rebounders in history, so the journalist always has an angle on the story, if nothing else turns up.
Bottom line, the journo knows he will get a good story. And that means a lot in their workday. It means hits, it means he gets space and maybe gets higher billing than his competitors at the same rag, and it means he can have a beer earlier in the day.
IMHO, it is a benefit to the team to have someone like Love on the team, it helps to promote the team when you have a go-to guy for the journalists.
I think pants from t-wolves blog might be on to something
According to pants : I’ve noticed a recent meme from sources all over the internet but seemingly originating from ESPN (Yahoo is just as guilty though) that Love is a good guy and the Wolves organization is villainous.
I’d say this is 1 part Kahn hate, 1 part Love on team USA, 1 part Great White Hope and 1 part sports news organizations feeling they need to balance out their Kahn hate.
http://www.twolvesblog.com/forum/minnesota-timberwolves-den/52273-love-is-good-wolves-are-bad.html
I've actually noticed this phenomenon too.
Simmons once just came out and said he hopes Kahn trades Love somewhere competent.
???? How does he stand out
Its not his play. Sure he gets a lot garbage rebounds but thats it. Its not like he is doing something that is leading team usa to victories
he got them during garbage time
so no not in his case
He wasn’t just playing in garbage time. And I think the original comment was that he “stood out” which is certainly true, because that sort of rebounding is freakish. It’d be like if Rondo were still on the team and ended up getting 10 assists in 12 minutes a couple times. People would talk about that.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
I don't think so
Kevin Durant leads the team in scoring but I only seen a few stories about him. It’s something else not found on the basketball court.
The media trend graphs below disagree with you. Durant’s been getting the most coverage. Love’s been getting a lot, but he’s not been covered like Durant has been.
I agree with some of what you’ve said about it—the Love v Kahn angle seems very true and him being white probably helps out a bit too—but I think his rebounding is noteworthy (and it’s been treated as a note, not a story) and he’s a candid interview, so he’s an easy angle for a reporter. That seems like all there is to it.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
I just think he stands out from the rest of the guys on the team.
In how he plays and how he looks. I don’t mean that he stands out because he dominates the Worlds. It’s novel…he’s the husky rebounder w/ a silver tounge on a team full of amazing athletes. Know what I mean????
by fanslaststand on Aug 31, 2010 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm trying to explain why I think Love gets more press.
The Google Trend stuff I posted kinda proved your point. Love gets way more pub than Gay, Westbrook, Chandler, etc. An engineer would look at it and say maybe his level of press doesn’t correspond one to one with his performance but that’s never the way publicity works so I’m throwing out what the other factors might be.
Love is a little more famous. He does national interviews, his dad was an NBA player and his uncle was the singer for the Beach Boys. Plus people like the hustle guy who cleans glass.
by fanslaststand on Aug 31, 2010 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions
maybe he is making himself available to the media more
than most guys. and giving good interview material. he seems like a guy who wants to be respected and recognized for his basketball skills. maybe he is seeking a little more press time. more press clippings would help his image on the new wolves a bit. i don’t think any of the other players on team usa are groping for minutes on their teams like love seems to be. plus, he’s kind of a pleasant surprise, that’s newsworthy….call him media savvy.
phuckin' machine took my quarter.
This is a good take
I did not think about this way.
Wow you must know what I am in school for
I am going to school to become a computer engineer. but why is love a litte bit more famous. His dad only played a few years and he was a bit player. Huslte guys don’t are not the ones that sell tickets. The nba would have teams filled with Brain Cardinals of the world if this was the case.
There is a lot to gnaw on with Love
Top HS player in the country (basically), led UCLA to the Final Four, swapped on draft night for Mayo and his NBA career has been full of drama ever since. There is a lot of there there, as they say. I mean we can talk about him all day every day on CHoopus.
by fanslaststand on Aug 31, 2010 9:57 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Whoa...
let’s be real here. His play has not made him stand out? Do you really want to go on record as having said that? Because I think that that statement identifies you as an individual who has some issues with reality (and with a serious anti-Love bias.)
Love has just shown you and the world that he can ball at an insane level of competition. He belongs on this team. And yes, he just happens to be one of the top stories coming out of the U.S. team. I think you’re just seeing what you want to see.
Yes this is because he does not start
and love does even get starter minutes. He is the 9th or 10th man on the team. For your information the last game he played only 5 minutes. that does not sound like somebody that is balling. To me it sounds like you need a reality check to what it means to ball. All that I am saying is that He is not worth all the press that he is getting.
All you are saying is that "his play does not make him stand out"
but, oh… wait. Now there’s a clause added, which says that your play must come during what Chuck has determined to be during meaningful play.
All you are doing is carping, whining, moaning about why Love’s insane production doesn’t impress you.
Alll you’re doing is exactly what you accuse CHers of doing- of picking and choosing which numbers are meaningful. Love has dominated one aspect of the game during the time that he’s on the floor, and you refuse to accept this.
I’ve entertained a lot of your arguments about why Love is overrated. I’ve even done so with an open mind. You’ve made some points that I’m willing to consider. But when you refuse to acknowledge his game, even in the face of highly impressive stats, your own credibility goes out your window.
What you you talking about ???
You have never entertained my arguments. what I am saying that he does not deserve the press for his output on the floor. if he was doing his thing as one of the main players than he deserves all the pub he gets. But not as the 9th 10th guy getting garbage rebounds and points. I am going to repeat my last point he ONLY PLAYED 5 MINUTES in the last game.
Repeat any points you want.
What I hear and will continue to hear is your statement that his play has not made him stand out.
How does this sound- every time you spew out a new rant about why Love doesn’t impress you, I’ll respond, “Don’t hate, hater.” You are a broken record, and you clearly have no problem arguing in the fact of objective reality.
You are not seeing things in reality
He plays 5 minutes in the closest game team usa has had. you say that he is balling. I point out that all of his stats come when team usa is up by 20 points. you cant even tell the difference between getting stats during garbage time or getting them when the game is on the line. so tell me who is seeing things objectively???
Go back and parse historical stats for
Beasley’s stats or Love’s stats or the stats of whoever and tell me when you can make an argument about how productive they were in close games.
Then take a deep breath and admit that Love balled in limited play.
We are not talking about Beasley
I am talking about K love not deserving the press he is getting as a member of team usa. So why are you bringing up Beasley????
Who is it that usually frames his comments in the context of
Beasley vs. Love? It’s Chuck! But thanks for changing the subject!
I am bringing up the point that you refuse to give Love credit for being productive on the floor and you probably always will. Blah blah blah. Too slow. Blah blah. Not good in a running game. Blah blah. Role player. Too much press…
I did not change the subject. you tried too but anyway
Read what started this thread. its about how Klove is getting more press than guys that are main players for team usa. yes He has been productive during the garbage time that coach K has given him. but this does not explain why he gets more pub then Rose or AI.
I did read the thread. Your statements speak for themselves.
You seem to be the one guy, as usual, who wants to go way out on a limb saying that Love gets more credit than is merited by his play, even after a stretch of play that was freakishly productive.
Sorry, dude, but in my book, you officially just entered a dark place under a bridge.
freakishly productive ???
Yeah during garbage time. If he was so freakishly productive why hasn’t coach K given him more time. coach k knows more about basketball than the both of us so there is a reason why love is not playing more.
When Love produces
X number of points and rebounds (and clocking X speed in the 40-yard dash) while playing X number of minutes (including a subset of X minutes in non-garbage time) for a team that wins at least X number of games, you will finally have to give Love some credit.
In the meantime, keep reaching for something to complain about. Keep reaching…
don't get mad dude.
Love is not in your family. I am just pointing to the fact for what he has done for team usa he does not deserve the pub. Look at how many articles the starters for team usa gets in comparison to Love.
Not mad, but not inclined to hold my tongue at this point.
You seem obsessed with finding something wrong with every statement or fact which might indicate Love’s worth/potential as a player. I honestly think you should ask yourself whether you have some sort of personal bias against him.
You have the right to comment until you are blue in the face. But you might consider stepping back and picking your spots more selectively. When you get caught up (as you have on this thread), don’t be surprised when somebody calls you out.
caught up ???
You are funny dude. You are the one that is getting his panties in a bunch because I am stating facts. The fact that Love is getting more pub than most of starters for team USA. The fact that what he has done pales in comparison to what the main players have done. you say he is balling then I point out is most of his time on the court is when the game is already won for team usa.
Your facts and amazing observations crack me up.
His play has not made him stand out is right up there with he doesn’t run well enough to finish on the fast break and he is only a role player because he doesn’t score in iso.
BTW, I wear briefs. Is there any reason you are picturing a dude wearing panties?
you wearing panties is a verbal quip
about how you are reacting to something I wrote about love. It is similar to how females act when you talk about their boyfriends. role players are players that cant carry their teams offensive load, Love right now cant do this. that is why he is a role player. All the other stuff comes from watching the games. you should do this some times after you take off your fandom glasses.
Whatever floats your boat.
I’m going to limit my comments to basketball and disregard whatever else you’re babbling about.
Anyway, good luck with your campaign to deluge every thread on CH with the same tired comments about “fandom” and “watching the games.” Don’t ever let reality get in your way.
I loved this thread
Coach K “….great trail four.”
Terrible on the fast break.
Dave
by Dave Mulvihill on Sep 1, 2010 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions
You can argue that he has only played garbage time
You’d be wrong, but you could argue it. In fact, he was credited as helping energize the team vs. Slovenia, leading to them pulling away after a poor start. But principally, there’s no way you can look at the advanced stats put together on the USA team and argue that he’s done anything but stand out. On those numbers, there is not an area in which Love does not standout. Sure it doesn’t mean he’s a guaranteed all star, but it does mean that when given playing time, Love has, in fact, played exceptionally well.
I am not going to waste my time arguing with you guys
you see what you want to see. If we was so good why cant get more playing time ??? In the last game he played a total of 5 minutes. There is only a few things that makes him stand out and those are the fact that he is the slow white and nonathletic one that talks to damn much.
Have you ever considered
That you’re the one who’s focusing on the “fat, unathletic white guy” who “talks too much” aspect of things, instead of what he’s good at? Once you venture too far into that territory, you’re espousing a bias similar to the one you’re calling out.
What's a more interesting narrative
“Well-covered stars on their respective teams dominate as expected” or “Under-the-radar player for bad team dominates boards at absurd levels”? The less-heralded Kevin Love’s dominance on the boards is a more novel story than “Kevin Durant scores a lot” or “Rudy Gay can dunk a basketball in an exciting way,”
by nja700 on Aug 30, 2010 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
If you go to Google Trends they graph "media coverage"
Durant still gets way more pub than Love but an interesting example is Westbrook v Love, who also went to UCLA. The Ballyhoo has been following Love since 2004 and he gets way more attention than a Westbrook or Rudy Gay.
http://www.google.com/trends?q=russell+westbrook%2C+kevin+love&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0
Rubio v Durant
http://www.google.com/trends?q=ricky+rubio%2C+kevin+durant&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0
by fanslaststand on Aug 31, 2010 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
They both pale in comparison to the King
by bleedpurplecryblue on Aug 31, 2010 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Thanks, f. That's a cool site.
Rubio gets far more coverage than the Timberwolves.
Wheee.
"As long as a man stands in his own way, everything seems to be in his way." RWE
I agree
I’ve watched more Spain in the past 3 weeks than I have Timberwolves in the last 3 years.
by bleedpurplecryblue on Aug 31, 2010 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Al Jefferson: not as popular as Pokémon
Maybe if his game would evolve, he could take that next big step up.
"As long as a man stands in his own way, everything seems to be in his way." RWE
Sorry Big Al
But you couldn’t sell a ticket to watch the Heat. Personally I loved watching those post moves.
by fanslaststand on Aug 31, 2010 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions
The nba.com site runs stories on every team. HoopsHype has a series on Sam Daghlas, of Jordan.
Somewhere out there, Raptors fans are watching the video series about DeMar DeRozan and Sonny Weems playing in a pickup game.
If somebody else on the US team was getting steals at a ridiculous rate off the bench, that would be a story too.
"As long as a man stands in his own way, everything seems to be in his way." RWE
I think a double-double man deserves all the press he gets.
Durant and Team USA can do nothing if the other team owns the ball,
and i’ve been a guy that’s very critical about Love’s ‘tude. Without Kevin
we’d be 1-2.
It’s not like Kevin Love’s double-doubles are anomalies, or because
he’s playing FIBA instead of NBA. He does it in the NBA, too.
When you discuss Durant and Love you are comparing apples to oranges.
They do different things for the team.
by BaylorWest on Aug 31, 2010 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I just finished watching the USA v. Brazil game
A few thoughts:
- Kevin Love has been upgraded to 2nd Big over Tyson Chandler, in this game at least. However, they each saw just 5 minutes, and neither was particularly effective defensively against Tiago Splitter
- Tiago Splitter is the real deal. He’s a little foul-prone now, and that will show up more in the NBA than it does in FIBA; but he’ll be in a reserve role in SA, so he’ll have every opportunity to become acclimated.
- Team USA isn’t playing like a team yet. The first half was a defensive joke. The pick-and-roll is Basketball Offense 101. How is it that these guys had so much trouble with it? The only thing I can think of is that Coach K had instructed them to not sag off their man. The 2nd half was much, much better defensively, with the “big” (not always Odom) in a defensive p-n-r scenario showing very hard. Too bad Love didn’t get a chance to come back into the game in the 2nd half — if the change was mostly coaching instruction, he could have had a chance to redeem his lackluster 1st half minutes.
- By halfway through the 4th, Odom was completely gassed. He even sat out of one defensive possession, not even getting across halfcourt before Brazil scored (which happened to set him up nicely for an easy layup the next time, but can’t have been what was drawn up). It was baffling to see him stay out there with no motor left when Love and Chandler were still so fresh. Does K really trust Odom that much more than Chandler and Love in a close game? If so, is it deserved?
- The final possession for Brazil was cra-a-a-zy. Seems awfully risky to strategically miss a freethrow in the hopes of getting the rebound, especially when the Best Rebounder in the Universe(%?) is lined up on the trapezoid for the other team.
Love: 5 min, 3 pts (0-1 FG, 1-1 3PT), 1 ORB, 1 TRB
Ty: 5 min, 0 pts (0 FGA), 1 DRB, 1 TRB
Fun game.
Next thing you know, they'll take my thoughts away.
Final point note
- The final possession for Brazil was cra-a-a-zy. Seems awfully risky to strategically miss a freethrow in the hopes of getting the rebound, especially when the Best Rebounder in the Universe(%?) is lined up on the trapezoid for the other team.
I can’t think of another way they could have closed the 2pt gap, so I guess it was the right choice. And sure, I’ve seen this a few times in NBA ball. Still, it surprises me every time, and did so again.
Next thing you know, they'll take my thoughts away.
You need to have an intentional miss play that you go over in practice quite often. A good enough shooter can control where the miss will bounce.
The Magic did this in the playoffs against the Celtics, with Vince Carter missing the second of two free throws intentionally and Jameer Nelson streaking in from the three-point arc to tip it in.
i remember that play
the other part of that play that was impressive was that the orlando player intentionally moved straight across the lane so that the boston player moved in as well to box him out leaving jameer to come around the outside and pick up the rebound for the put back. fantastic play.
good summary of the game
I still can’t believe both teams only scored 9 points apiece in the 4th quarter.
Durant’s threes were amazing but so were Barbosa’s.
No autopsy, no foul.
Odom hasn't earned it.
I will never understand why coaches run their 5 guys into the ground when the ones on the bench are just as good. If you’re the Miami Heat, sure. If you’re the US team, with twelve All-Star caliber players and a second unit that has been routinely creating and extending leads, the freshest player is probably the best one.
Odom in particular has a really long leash. He was really bad all game, but played 30 minutes. Love played 5 minutes, made a couple of mistakes, and was pulled, never to return. Same with Chandler, who I thought was the clear best big man for this particular matchup. In my opinion, Odom is consistently the worst of the three, yet nothing he does costs him minutes.
The offensive execution was terrible in the fourth quarter. Durant was facing double teams. Iguodala seemingly has no role in the offense. Odom can’t create his own shot, especially when he’s dead tired. Rose and Billups weren’t setting anyone up, because neither has great point guard skills. I hope Kryzewski is quicker to shake things up. A roster this talented should never be held to 9 points in a quarter.
warms my heart
11 FIBA assists is like 18 in the NBA. When is the last time a wolves player or prospect dropped that many dimes?
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 31, 2010 7:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Not just that
But 11 in 26 minutes. That translates to 17 for 40. Good to see his teammates actually converting some of his assists for once.
by Cobra312004 on Aug 31, 2010 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Kevin Love's Role
He admits, though, that his role is a little different than it is back in Minnesota.
“Playing with all these guys, they definitely open up the floor. I know that if I’m going to stay in the game and play minutes, I have to get out there and get every rebound. That’s kind of what coach tells me. Right before I go in the game, he says ‘get me every rebound.’”
Would it be better for the Wolves if Love had this role? Or, alternatively, is this the role he actually DOES play on the Wolves, at least to this point? He seems to concede that he is only focused on rebounding, on Team U.S.A. Would the Wolves be better off if Love were a pure rebounding specialist, or if he rounded out his game at the expense of his crazy rebound-per-minute stats?
Something to think about.
Currently?
Would the Wolves be better right now, if Kevin Love was an off the bench rebound specialist? No. They are not yet a talented enough or established enough team for that.
by Krotz the Wall on Aug 31, 2010 8:09 AM CDT up reply actions
Or in the future...
when we hope to have a contending team. There’s no reason he’d have to come off the bench as a rebounding specialist. Rodman was a starter for most of his career.
Is it just me, or is Rodman not getting into the HOF a really glaring omission? Huge part of 5 NBA title teams, 2 time DPOY, 7 First Team All-Defense appearances, 7 rebounding titles and even made a couple all-star teams despite the fact that all-star teams are usually filled with iso scorers. That’s a Hall of Famer.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
If he promised not to give a speech
He’d probably be in the HOF w/in the year.
by fanslaststand on Aug 31, 2010 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions
Even though that speech would probably be the greatest thing that ever happened to the Hall.
It just seems dumb that his off the court antics are keeping basketball people from recognizing how great he was on the court. Give the man his due.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
For that reason alone, I plan on starting
a write-in campaign for Ron Artest. I would DVR that HOF speech.
C'mon Tim I'm reading this during class
I can’t afford to laugh at in opportune times. The thought of Ron Ron giving that speech is hilarious. My professor didn’t get it.
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Aug 31, 2010 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Here's what Rodman's omission means
First, that the league values scoring over everything else even at its highest and most ‘discriminating’ levels. I didn’t know all that about Rodman (7 first teams all defense, 2 DPOYs, etc) – if he had a all of that with a 15 ppg average he’d be in already. He led the NBA in rebounding for 7 years in a row with an average of 16.7 rebounds per game! Dude was a career 17.2% on the O-boards (for comparison, in the last ten years there are only 9 players who’ve qualified for the rebounding title and had a 15% OReb or better. All I’m saying is that the guy significantly altered the outcome of games and how teams played his teams when he was on the floor and should be considered for the HOF.
Second, regarding his speech. Can he really be any worse than Jordan?
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
by biggity2bit on Aug 31, 2010 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions
the league values scoring over everything else even at its highest and most ‘discriminating’ levels
To be fair, I think they should do that, since scoring is much more important – in my opinion – than anything else. But I do think that Rodman should be in the HOF.
He was unbelievable...
and yes, his rebounding and defense made a huge difference for his teams. I don’t remember the Pistons Rodman very well, but the Spurs and Bulls version was an incredible rebounder and defender. He deserves, but doesn’t really receive, much of the credit for the Bulls’ second three-peat.
The Worm should be in the Hall of Fame, for sure.
The Pistons Rodman
had a lot of versatility- much lighter and able to guard 2s. Otherwise, the same intensity and a shut-down defender, if not the dominant rebounder that he became. This man needs to be in the HOF.
They should have made a similar stipulation for #23.
What’s worse, Dennis Rodman arriving on a motorcycle in a wedding dress and talking all about his relationship with Madonna back in the day, or Michael Jordan dissing his personal enemies list?
I’d watch the former much more willingly.
"As long as a man stands in his own way, everything seems to be in his way." RWE
The NBA Playbook article posted about Love at the Worlds was really good. While his main focus has been rebounding, he’s also been able to step out and make jumpers and find cutters. That probably should be his role on the Wolves and probably at least sort of is right now.
You make him an important cog in the offense by getting him the ball and letting him make a decision with it. If they play off you, shoot. If someone’s open, pass. He doesn’t try to do too much out there, and the role he has over there has definitely given him rebounding opportunities, but I’m not sure how much different it is than his role with the Wolves. I think his crazy rebounding rate is more a result of a two game random variance from his usual excellent rate than it is his role in Turkey. Team USA has given him his ideal role (when he’s actually out there) and unsurprisingly, playing with elite talent cutting to the hoop helps him out.
And I think it’s unfair to imply that his role is “pure rebounding specialist.” He has scored in decent volume when he’s been on the floor too.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
Pekovic
I’m interested to see how the Love-Pekovic tandem gels, this year. From those clips of Pek, he looks like a guy who really likes to seal his man, almost directly underneath the hoop. Love’s high-low passing will be critical, there.
As for being a “rebounding specialist,” it’s probably more of a mentality than an actual, x’s and o’s basketball role. If Love took the mindset that he wants to get every rebound, it would probably mean he will shoot a little bit less. If nothing else, to get his energy back for more rebounding.
I’m also curious about Love and Pek working together. I think it’s a good tandem because of Love’s passing ability and ability to stay away from the low block with a scorer down there. This is still a team that could really use a 3rd big, since I don’t trust a Darko/Pek tandem or a Darko/Beasley tandem because those frontcourts would be miserable rebounding lineups. If Beasley turns into a force out there, this becomes less of a problem, but a three big rotation of someone like Noah/Love/Pek with spot minutes coming from elsewhere (maybe Darko or Beasley, depending on their development) would be very, very good. This is a team that still needs an athletic defender/rebounder in the frontcourt.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
Both should come of the bench
they would be on the slow it down half court team. while the other players would be on the run and gun team. if we plan to run then you need to play 9-10 guys.
If you want to run, you also need rebounds. Darko/Beasley is a terrible rebounding frontcourt, mostly because Darko can’t rebound and Beasley being okay in that regard doesn’t make up for it. If Darko becomes a better rebounder (and he’s been decent in some seasons), it’s not nearly as big of a problem, but I just don’t trust that lineup to get stops. And if you can’t end possessions you can’t run.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
plus rebounding is overrated
The thunder don’ have any body on their team that is a double digit rebounder but yet they won 50 some odd games.
Because everyone rebounds. The Wolves don’t have good rebounders anywhere except Love and possibly Wes. That’s a problem and it’s not one that tends to go away.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
well if Beasley played as much as kevin durant
he would get more rebounds than KD. and KD is the thunder leading rebounder
That’s true, Beasley rebounds at a slightly higher rate than Durant. He also does it playing the 4. Durant rebounds his position slightly above average, Beasley rebounds his position pretty much exactly at average. You need guys who are good rebounders for their positions. Outside of Love and maybe Wes, the Wolves don’t have those players, and if Darko leaks rebounds to the other team’s center as much as he tends to, the Wolves will be a really bad rebounding team with Love out.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
Like I said Kevin Durant is their team leader in rebounding
Jeff green is their starting power-foward and he only gets 6 per game. I think rebounding is important but not that important. Jeff green I think gets more time on the floor than what Beasley got.
that would be great
if Wes plays the 2 and can rebound at Durant’s rate.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 31, 2010 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Jeff Green is a pretty crappy rebounder, but they also have Russell Westbrook at the point, who rips down rebounds at an insane rate for a point guard, Thabo Sefolosha who is a good rebounder for a 2, Durant who’s above average for a 3, and Serge Ibaka who is an excellent rebounder. Their frontcourt, outside of Serge isn’t good (Green, Collison and Kristic are all weak rebounders), but their backcourt makes up for it. The Wolves don’t have that backcourt. It’d be nice if they did, because it’d solve a ton of problems, but right now, they don’t.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
I think Brew or Webster could get the same numbers of rebounds
That Thabo Sefolosha gets. Plus I think Webster is better offensive player. the guy we cant match is wesbrook. but I think Darko can make up that difference. Darko is a way better rebounder than Kristic . plus with love coming off the bench he could be our designated rebounder.
Beasley is worse than average
for a regular rotation PF. At least that’s how it came up when i crunched the numbers on this post. All the regular players on the wolves rebounded at below the average rate for their positions.
no but idea that wolves would get no rebounds with out love
Is just plain stupid. with out love the wolves could rebound just as well as the thunder.
Nope
Here are the numbers for total rebound rate.
Centers: Krstic 12.6% vs. Darko 12.1% (call it a wash)
PF: Collison 14.1, Green 9.2, Ibaka, 17.3 vs. Beasley 12.6% (only Green is outrebounded by Beasley)
SF: Durant 11.0% vs Webster 8.3, Brewer, 6.3%
SG: Sefolosha 9.5, Harden 8.1 vs Ellington 6.4 and Brewer 6.3%
PG: Westbrook 8.2% vs. Flynn 4.6% and Ridnour 4.6%. The Wolves are seriously outrebounded at all these positions. Love’s 21.4% makes up a lot of those differences.
green starts
I was talking about the starters. and you right with love coming off the bench we could out rebound the thunder
The MN starters are outrebounded
Beasley’s advantage over Green is small. Smaller than OKCs advantage at each of SF, SG, and PG.
So the conversation would go something like...
Would the Wolves be better off if Love were a pure rebounding specialist, or if he rounded out his game at the expense of his crazy rebound-per-minute stats?
“Well, Kevin, while we appreciate those 15+ ppg you put up as a starting PF, especially at age 21 in an offense not at all geared around getting you points. However, going forward, we think it will be better for everyone involved if you adopted a Dennins Rodman-type game where you really gave up all thoughts about being a cog in the offense, and instead just focused on grabbing boards. You know, now that we’ve surrounded you with so many dynamic scoreres and all.”
I hope so.
It’d be nice if we did surround him with some dynamic scorers, so he could focus on doing what he does best, which is rebound.
Yeah, let's give every player on the team one role
so they can perfect it without having to worry about all around play. We’ll discourage Rubio from developing a shot, so he can concentrate on his passing, tell Beasley that there will be no need to improve his 6 rebound per game average when he’s playing the 4, since his role will that of a scorer, or when he’s the 3, because Love will be the designated rebounder.
Beyond the fact that a team works better with versatile players, Love is a year or two of development and a ball-motion offense away from being a 20 ppg guy.
One plus
is that I think this year Rambis will give every player a role/goals on the team. With Love it was his shooting, taking charges, and focusing on team defense instead of individual defense. I’m assuming that every other guy has their own ‘checklist’ of things to focus on this year as well (similar to how Rambis asked/prescribed each guy to work on specific things over the summer). I think it’s good for chemistry and team building to ask guys to focus on certain things initially and then let them naturally grow into doing other things as they learn their teammates better. For example, Love may start out focusing on being a good team defensive player, but then naturally grows to realize that he can also be a great strong side shot blocker. (OK OK, I kid! I kid!) But seriously, for a guy like Darko or Jonny or Wes or Webster or Beasley – hell, the whole entire team – give them something to focus on that you know they can do well and let them do it. Then if you discover that Darko’s baby hook is really starting to fall with regularity or that Pek is a better shot blocker than expected or that Wesley is really, really strong on the boards or whatever, then just let that come out naturally over the course of the season. In a sense limiting guys’ roles initially will help them play together faster because they each know what their doing and what the other guys are doing (or who to look for when).
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
by biggity2bit on Aug 31, 2010 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions
If Love could play D like Rodman,
sure, but without that D I’d say get your scoring on for this team right now.
by Bad News Wolves on Aug 31, 2010 10:49 AM CDT reply actions
Lithuania knocks off Spain!
I missed the first half, but Rudy F. turned over the ball and bricked a bunch of shots in the second half to put Lithuania back into this one. Ricky was all over the place but Spain didn’t play up to his level.
No autopsy, no foul.
It would be classic T-wolves...
If Spain doesn’t advance.
by fanslaststand on Aug 31, 2010 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Love won't be able to play Defense like KG
But with the right attitude he should be able to do much of what Rodman could do. Rodman usually had something to play for. If the timberwolves have a shot at the playoffs everyone may pick it up just a little. Don’t you think Rambis will want to win a little more this year/ Last year he seemed so relaxed with all the losing, it really did seem like they were just experimenting with players to see what they had. I don’t think the national media catches that, but some CH ers do. Rambis gave most returning players a defensive assignment to work on this summer so maybe thats a sign things will change.
With spain losing
I wonder if anyone knows how that will affect them in this whole thing.
The top 4 out of 6 teams in their bracket advance. Too early to call it.
by fanslaststand on Aug 31, 2010 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Rudy is trying to play his way out of the NBA
Hasn’t he had a horrible tourney?
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 31, 2010 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Rebounding % from Turkey
http://www.in-the-game.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/reboundpct.jpg
Love with okay stats
Well s***.
Someone stole my bit. What’s more, they’re doing it better than I am, actually calculating the percentage play by play rather than using the total rebounds in the game and Love’s playing time.
Hm
I’m using the estimation too (using the basketball-reference formula). Are my numbers different from yours?
Here’s a complete list with some advanced stats for all players in the tournament: http://www.in-the-game.org/?page_id=8651
Basketball-reference has advanced stats for Team USA, which include the four preparation games: http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=7294
No plus/minus, unfortunately FIBA play-by-play doesn’t show a substitution when it is made during the break between to quarters. Oh well …
Hey S-n-P
Can you turn off the twitter prompt dialog that is constantly popping up lately? Thx.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
Just as I said before...
Kleiza, Yi and Scola are beast PF in Fiba.
If any of them had been on the Wolves imagine the ridiculous hyperbolic praises will be heaped upon them given that they are actually contributing on their teams and leading them. Sure Yi hasn’t led to a lot of wins but at least he’s posting great numbers in starter minutes.
These guys are NBA players and the very same players our PFs, third-string backups on or uninvited to Team USA, will have to be better than if they have any delusions of being core pieces in a championship run.
I think Love playing like he has on Team USA
goes a long way to proving how valuable he is on a talented team when he doesn’t have to be one of the top two or three players. Love is not, and never will be an iso star in the NBA. Ever. But if his role is to gain extra possessions and try to set his teammates up for easy baskets and clean up the garbage, he is extremely valuable.
I think he is a player that can make a good team really good, but not the type of player that can make a bad team good.
If all you need out of love is hustle, grab the boards, make the right pass and get offensive boards and put backs, then you are golden. If you need more, you will frequently be left wanting and only occasionally satisfied.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 31, 2010 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions
the wolves need to continue
to add talent and hope that a current player starts to really come into their own. That way Love can play to his strengths and shine by putting up all around numbers on a winning team. A player like Love can contribute to any team, but in order to get the most out of him you really need to not force him away from playing a complimentary all around team game.
It’s why he is good FIBA player and should thrive on that stage…assuming the US can actually ever play as a team that is. :)
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 31, 2010 8:09 PM CDT up reply actions
That’s pretty much what everyone’s been saying about Love. I think both you and Dominate have read praise of the exact same nature about Love pretty consistently, but for some reason have taken it to mean that people think Kevin Love is going to carry bad teams to championships. Love has a very useful skillset and is an elite rebounder. That’s pretty much what everyone has said about him, and clearly is something you agree with. Now can we end the petty “Love isn’t as good as you guys say he is!” stuff, now that someone has put what everyone has been saying into terms everyone can agree on?
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
I agree
He is a danm good rebounder a good passer and could be a good 3rd 4th option. I wish he could be more. Then the wolves wold win more games then the hat would stop.
3rd option on offense seems like his ideal role. Not even 3rd scorer, necessarily, but he can get the ball and make smart passes if he doesn’t have a good look, because he’s not going to create his own shot from nothing.
The Wolves are in serious need of an elite scorer. The fact that Love isn’t that guy despite receiving the label “best player on this stink bomb of a team” makes him feel some serious backlash from fans, because most people are used to calling your best scorer the best player, and Love just flat out isn’t a lead scorer.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
No I think the backlash
comes when people overvalue him. I say with another team or with a different players on this team love could be a very good contributor for a winning team. Hell I thought we could have made it work with Him and AL. the pistons back in the day did not have your prototype center and power forward but they made it work. I
I think that’s the general consensus, maybe not the Al part, but the “important part of a winning team” part. And since most of us are Wolves fans, people are going to focus on the positive and it might feel like people think he’s better than he is, but really, he’s just an important piece, not a superstar.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
to point you are right
But I have read some crazy fandom stuff around here. Love is better than bosh melo stat the list goes on and on now if people were reasoned like you are than there would be no tit for tat arguments about love. My only thing is that for him to be a main contributor the wolves need to forget about the notion of being a running team.
It’s hard to compare him to Melo and Stat because they’re just totally different types of players, and I don’t think any of them are good enough to carry a team. It comes down to what your team needs from a player. I can see situations where Love might be more useful to particular teams than either one of those guys, but that doesn’t make Love the better player, just more useful in some contexts. If your team can already score in bunches, but you need a rebounding PF who won’t mess with the offensive flow, Kevin Love is your man. It’s about building good teams, not picking guys in a vacuum.
And I remember the Bosh point. It was “If the Heat had Love, they wouldn’t have needed to go get Bosh,” not “Love is better than Bosh.” That point is debateable in its own right, because maybe LeBron and Wade don’t team up if Bosh isn’t there, but it was really more about how they could have spent the money in different ways if Love was already on board.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
or the Heat wouldn't need either
if they had Howard. Oh yeah, I went there…
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 31, 2010 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Trade Bosh for Howard and we don’t even need to play NBA games for 6 years, they’ll win every title and shatter every record.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
Howard would make that team absurd
Since he would no longer have to focus on offense as much with Wade and Lebron, he could just focus on defense and rebounding. Plus his offense would be set up be Wade and Lebron driving and dishing (so primarily trailing dunks). He fits so much better on that team than Bosh. Better defender, better rebouder and doesn’t need the ball. Then the Heat could play Haslem at the 4 (which they probably would have had to do anyways but now is much more natural). Scary good.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Sep 1, 2010 6:37 AM CDT up reply actions
as to Love and running
the one thing I am extremely impressed with him in that regard is how fast he does get rid of the ball when he get a rebound. Most of the time before he even lands the ball is out and moving up the floor. Most players will grab it and secure it before passing and that takes a lot of time and allows the D to get back. Someone posted a link to a website breaking down loves rebounding in the FIBA tournament (same site that broke down Pek’s play as I recall).
It was a pretty eye opening vidio compellation (although since I haven’t watched every minute of every game, I can’t say it is always like that). He will never finish a fast break though. On that you are absolutely right. But Gay has gotten quite a few breakaway dunks because of Love’s outlet passes in the past week. Which is what many mean when they say fast break.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 31, 2010 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions
True
But what if Love does not get the rebound. with him on the floor it reduces our chances to run. If love could get every rebound when he is on the floor then I have no problem with him getting major clock.
yes
in that case they will not be able to run effectively, which might explain why the wolves have assembled a team that has good passers as a fallback option for the offense.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Sep 1, 2010 6:54 AM CDT up reply actions
I blame the advent of texting and email
over actually talking and writing for why our current society is so poor at communicating effectively. Hell, I tested out as having very high reading comprehension and I find myself going off on a rant on somebody about something I think they said/meant…only to stop myself later and say “oh crap, I did it again…sigh…I need a timeout.”
And to think that the younger generations can’t even stand email but prefer texting only over that and talking…we are so screwed. I thought I was socially stunted…I hope we all get very good at reading minds…we may need it. :)
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 31, 2010 8:05 PM CDT up reply actions
We’re all guilty of it from time to time and it gets frustrating. I think that, combined with the offseason doldrums has caused some weird added tension around here.
Anyway, you should check out Heidegger’s “The Question Concerning Technology.” It’s a great commentary on technology’s impact in making the world more convenient, but also more alienating. Cool stuff, even though he was, by all accounts, a pretty awful human being in pretty much every way.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
the irony being for me
that as much as I prefer to talk face to face, at work I prefer email because of my short attention span. When my coworkers have questions, I prefer an email prompt so I can work efficiently and find a proper stopping place and not let them constantly interrupt me.
No joke, I have coworkers who will simply start into a question without ever addressing me as if I was supposed to listen to them all the time and keep track of when they are talking to me and when they are on their phones making personal calls. I find email to be a solid buffer choice so I don’t go off on them and just be viewed as the office dick.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 31, 2010 8:13 PM CDT up reply actions
On Heidegger:
“His major work Being and Time is formidably difficult—unless it is utter nonsense, in which case it is laughably easy. I am not sure how to judge it, and have read no commentator who even begins to make sense of it”. —Roger Scrutton
Heidegger became a Nazi, but Being and Time paved the way for Sartre and Camus. Roger Scrutton lets religious views cloud his objectivity.
I just like the quote.
Next thing you know, they'll take my thoughts away.
by losDelFuego on Aug 31, 2010 11:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Heidegger’s relationship the Nazi party is crazy. He quit during the height of their reign, but he wasn’t exactly coerced into joining to begin with and he actively had professors at his university “removed” to pave his way to chair the department. He abruptly quit when he realized they weren’t going to help the German peasant and no one in power seemed to give a crap. He was also just a world class asshole according to most people.
I haven’t read “Being and Time” mostly because I don’t care much about existentialism, but his later work with dasein and modernity is staggeringly good. It’s baffling and infuriating that someone like him is among important and brilliant thinkers and writers of the 20th Century.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
Politics is not a good indicator of much else
Normally you’d think a woman who can field dress a moose would know her ass from a hole in the ground, for example.
Let me know when you work your way up to post-Lacanian psychoanalytical theory (they let us study that stuff in English class at the U of IA).
No autopsy, no foul.
I avoid the post-modern like the plague. A professor of mine said that there are two types of philosophy, the kind that builds and the kind the kicks holes. If you can’t go beyond hole kicking, I’m not particularly interested and I lump post-Lacanian thought in with Derrida and the like. Could be wrong about that since I haven’t read much of it, but I’d need good reason to spend time and energy on anything related to deconstruction. With human language, any argument can be torn down by changing the rules you play by, but it’s not particularly helpful if you can’t put something more useful in its place.
My focus is on subjectivity, aesthetic engagement and alienation with a particular interest in how modernity affects these ideas and how they affect most areas of philosophy. I spend a lot of time with Phenomenology and American Pragmatism as well as post-WWI American lit and more recent Latin American lit.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
APPLESAUCE!!!!
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Sep 7, 2010 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd argue
that looking for an isolation star is the wrong thing for this team, and that we’re better off with a good system and good cogs than we are with a great iso threat.
Honestly, I think the paradigm is changing. The best player on a team doesn’t have to be the best scorer on a team, and a successful team doesn’t have to have what people call a “number 1 option”.
Next year (11-12) the best two players on our team (Stern willing) will be an elite distributor and an elite rebounder. I’ll be proven right or wrong then. But for me, the Suns and Warriors teams indicated that the Two Stars Plus Role Players mold might be outdated.
Next thing you know, they'll take my thoughts away.
by losDelFuego on Aug 31, 2010 11:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Kevin Love
13 points and 6 boards today in 11 minutes. Solid.
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