FANTASTIC!!!
Imagine if you will the 26th and 27th worst defensive teams in the NBA squaring off against one another. Now imagine that one of them decides to mail it in.
This was one of those games that makes you want to petition the NBA to institute a clause in the new CBA where a team that dogs it has to refund anyone who paid for a ticket. Of course, as I write this, the Raptors have switched to the ultimate Wolves killing defense: the zone. I'll keep a running commentary on the game below the fold. After all, this game is only available on League Pass and local fans deserve to have a taste of the NBA Fantastic Action.
- 2041: Highlight of game thus far has been listening to the Raptors TV crew try on Kevin Love's Numbers cologne and after shave. They likey.
- 2044: The zone is absolutely flummoxing the Wolves. Will this be another edition of what Don Nelson did to Randy Wittman a few years ago? Witt couldn't figure out the zone and it led to some comical losses. It would be an amazing thing for defense to decide anything in this game. It's simply not being played on either side of the court.
- 2045: The Raptors are using the leading D-League scorer. When will Joe Alexander get another crack?
- 2047: Did you know that the Raptors are the best offensive rebounding team in the league? They also shoot worse than the Wolves.
- 2048: OK, the Wolves have figured out the Raptors zone. Good, I would have hated to have defense be a part of this game.
- 2049: Looking through the game thread, I see that folks are talking about computer programming. Yes, it's that interesting of a game. My Kindle is sitting on the coffee table. It's calling me. Too Big to Fail is calling me. Apparently, someone at Target Center drove all the way there from Saskatoon. That's just crazy.
- 2051: Jonny Flynn vs. Jarryd Bayless. I want to say something clever and funny here but I just can't seem to think of anything. I'm not really sure I believe this match up is happening. What makes it even more surreal is that Shaddy is sitting court side. The game thread is now onto Linux OS.
- 2053: The Raptors announcers are really talking up Kevin Love. How is it that they get what a lot of Minny fans don't?: He's not the problem and every other team in the league would want him. Here are Love's season splits. Win or lose, he produces. He's the absolute foundation of this team and they'd be sub-Cleveland and a horrible future without him.
- 2057: The Raptors enter the 4th quarter with 59 points. This has absolutely nothing to do with the Wolves' defense. It is amazing how little fire power this Raptors team has.
- 2059: FSN twitter just posted that Wolves would be 4-6 on the back end of B2Bs if they win tonight. That's kind of crazy.
- 2100: Raptors crew really giving props to Love. They even hinted that Kahn and Rambis might not have known what they had in him. No, no they did not. They are now talking about the importance of picking up a veteran player who can produce, be a good player, and change the culture. They've done good work tonight. A bit over the top, but pretty good.
- 2103: Martell Webster takes it right down the middle of the lane for a nice 1 handed jam.
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Things considered
Yes this was ugly, but this was a victory by any stretch of the means, and it was a decent one.
Considering that Beasley couldnt hit anything at all
Considering that we were on a back to back
Considering that Love played virtually one half of play
Considering that Ridnour played horrific
An ugly win is better than a pretty loss. Ill take this over that Thunder loss any day of the week.
Also
I seriously think that Jonny does better with Wes, Beasley, Love and Darko. It opens up the floor for him, and he’s gaining confidence.
Wes Johnson looks primed to be 3rd in rookie of the year votes if he keeps this up
Cousins
is picking up his game too. I’d say Wes will fall to 5th..
which should be right where he belongs at the fourth pick
with Griffin being from last year’s class.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jan 30, 2011 10:03 AM CST up reply actions
As a Kings fan RBizzy...
..I think the would have taken Monroe. Not happily, but they would have. The need for size was just too much although I would have preferred Wesley Johnson over Monroe every time.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
Wes Johnson
would have looked nice next to Tyreke. IMO.
Whenever I'm about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing.
They're definitely complementary to one another's skillsets, anyway.
That makes something of a contrast with Martell and Wes, whose question marks are both ball handling, for one example.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Yeah but they can both shoot pretty well!
Wait…
Whenever I'm about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing.
On Love:
Win or lose, he produces.
So you’re saying we win when everyone else does well? Preposterous!
Whenever I'm about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing.
yep....
….when the below average players around him play averagely, (relatively) good things happen.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
Kevin Love is not the problem
he is The Solution.
Kevin Love is not the problem.
by PoorDick on Jan 29, 2011 9:39 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
I was doing my honey do list...
…this morning with In the Zone on in the background and someone called in and suggested trading Love. I’ll never get it.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
Wolves need around Love
Consistency from Beasley ( in due time)
Wes to keep this up and get better at handling the ball
Darko to get better consistently
and a bonafide veteran at the 2
And of course Rubio..
And we are right there ruling the West when the Lakers, Spurs and Mavs get 2 old…
Holler back @ me
"and a bonafide veteran at the 2"
and a bonafide pimp/stud* at the 2
Ahh, the thin line between homerism and objectivity
by WhiteManCantWrite on Jan 30, 2011 8:53 AM CST up reply actions
I get it
so the only way a team with Love can win is if everyone else exceeds expectations? Wow. He’s sure an allstar!
Ummm….
……
……….
…
%
Whenever I'm about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing.
Wait....
My sarcasm was actually sarcastic. And now I’m off to repair the giant black hole that just ripped right next to me.
Whenever I'm about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing.
That's what she said
Ahh, the thin line between homerism and objectivity
by WhiteManCantWrite on Jan 30, 2011 8:55 AM CST up reply actions
geez lol a bit graphic there
"I haven't died," he said. "Right now I'm drinking a beer and eating fried chicken. What were you expecting, a funeral?" - Yao Ming
Caught just the last 4 minutes of this.
For anyone who watched all of it, you have my sincere sympathy. I can only quote the Captain Kurtz line “The Horror, The Horror”!
I can only hope that what I saw was just the 3rd string missing shots, not blocking out, not passing to the open man,etc, etc, etc…
This is a win that really is a loss…
"People don't resent having nothing nearly as much as having too little. "- Ivy Compton-Burnett
What you saw was garbage time.
The earlier game mostly featured garbage defense, but it wasn’t at that level, at all. Heck, you saw Sebastian Telfair playing for the first time in donkey’s years.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Bassy did look out of sync.
He’s been on the bench for 3 weeks now if my memory serves. Maybe this gives us some hope that Jonny has upside after lots of time off due to his injury!
"People don't resent having nothing nearly as much as having too little. "- Ivy Compton-Burnett
Welcome to being a Twolves fan ...
… where we count our losses as moral victories and our victories as moral losses.
by Ghostwolf on Jan 30, 2011 10:06 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
My thoughts (yeah, I wouldn't read them either. No offense taken):
Raptors are awful. Their shot selection was attrocious and many of the shots they made I remember thinking, “Wow that was lucky. We were playing pretty good defense on that play.” They also got a few breakaways. This makes me wonder just how many plays they got that were the result of good basketball. They really did not care tonight (sorry if any Raps fans are reading. It’s the truuf though).
Pekovic looks to be improving. That makes me happy. Now if he could just have a chat with Darko about that…
The headbands were a bad decision for Wes and Wayne. Wayne should go back to being the rookie bitch for that. Wes should be the rookie bitch’s rookie bitch. Pardon my language. They both looked stupid.
Bargnani backed down Tolliver at one point in this game. I like Tolliver, but we’ve got to call him what he is. And that’s an average 2nd/3rd backup option.
Bassy.
Whenever I'm about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing.
Nice game.
I was trying to figure out how Toronto has 13 wins, and I thought maybe Bargnani is usually better than this. Looking at his 5-24 shooting in the box, I think that is maybe it. I know he’s lit up the Wolves before, but his shots weren’t dropping tonight.
Good to see some production out of Wes and Martell.
Beasley following up his own missed jumper with a dunk was pretty ridiculous. Not sure the last time that’s happened on such a long jumpshot.
Love is great at drawing random fouls when we’re in the bonus.
On the Toronto board, they were talking about Bargnani's splits in wins and losses.
Prior to tonight this year (insert sample size comment here), he shoots .555 in wins, and .415 in losses. From three? .442 in wins, .297 in losses.
Guy had 1/3 the rebounds Jonny Flynn did when I looked in the 4th quarter. He’s a foot taller.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Yeah, he's pretty one-dimensional...
and definitely a weak rebounder and defender. But, when he’s on, he’s on—tonight was not that night. I’m not sure if our defense had a lot to do with it. His release point is so high that he can get his jumpshots when he wants them, for the most part.
Those splits are pretty telling, especially if you watched tonight’s game and saw what the Raptors look like when Bargnani is cold.
"I was trying to figure out how Toronto has 13 wins"
The wins:
Cleveland (2)
Philadelphia (2)
Washington
Sacramento
Detroit
New Jersey
Houston
Boston(!)
OKC
Orlando(!)
Dallas(!)
So, a few surprises there. But in tonight’s game the Wolves made the Raptors look like the Wolves of last year.
One upside for the Wolves of the Superfriends Era is how many teams have been pushed back behind the Wolves because of a lost superstar (Cleveland, Toronto, soon to be Denver and maybe New Orleans and perhaps one day Orlando), or because they were making room for a superstar who never came (New Jersey). Throw in Charlotte, Detroit, Washington, and maybe Phoenix, and it appears the Wolves could quickly rise to the top of the bottom third of the league, just by standing still.
Kevin Love is not the problem.
by PoorDick on Jan 29, 2011 10:00 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
But not yet, I hope!
Harrison Barnes had 25 points today. Maybe we should hold off on beating these crappy teams.
Seriously though, it would be nice to see more of that from Barnes. Sounds like his shooting has been really cold, so far. His shot mechanics look great and I wouldn’t be surprised if he starts to live up to the hype.
I'm starting to wonder if Barnes is destined to be a Wolf.
We’ll finish with the fourth-worst record and end up with the fifth pick, and he’ll be there, and we need him, etc..
Let's hope so
This draft is looking down right depressing right now. We need another couple players to emerge.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 29, 2011 10:11 PM CST up reply actions
Just wait until...
…all the top picks wait a year because of the CBA. Get ready for Kyle Singler or a Euro.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
There is logic in that pick
He’s putting up better all-around numbers in the Euroleague than a much older Pekovic ever did.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 30, 2011 7:30 AM CST up reply actions
Singler...
is 24 on Ford’s list, 30 on Givony’s. Do you really think this is going to happen? Or a joke?
Partial joke
But expect to see a lot more underclassmen stay in school than usual
by PhoenixWolf on Jan 29, 2011 10:22 PM CST up reply actions
I'd take Jimmer late first round
The kid can play.
by Bad News Wolves on Jan 29, 2011 11:47 PM CST up reply actions
He probly wont be around that late
he’s been moving up the mock drafts like the god damn jeffersons..
Yeah he'll end up being piked way to early.
But I see a very solid role player written all over him.
by Bad News Wolves on Jan 29, 2011 11:51 PM CST up reply actions
Hilariously
(and as you’ve mentioned before) unless they can pull off some kind of salary dump or trade of the draft pick for a future pick, adding Rubio to the roster plus the salary for a top five pick (who will almost by definition be overpaid), and the Wolves will be close to $50 million in salary next year. And I can’t honestly say that losing Brewer and adding, say, Harrison Barnes to the wing logjam and Rubio to the PG logjam will really make them much better than a 20-25 win team.
Maybe Ricky’s eyebrows can jump off his face and sell some season ticket packages.
Kevin Love is not the problem.
I'd 100% trade this year's pick...
….in a deal for Ellis or Curry. They either need to find a way to get the 2012 pick back or have it land outside of the top 5. Otherwise, disaster.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
Outside the top 5 isn't a lock by any strech, but I be surprised if we are top 5 unless we move up or retain position
Wolves draft history is to usually retain position or move down and I’ll like to think that won’t change just because we give the pick up.
Even without the Eastern Conference moves like LeBron and Bosh,
the outlines of the West were already changing too. You really don’t have three or four legitimate championship-level teams out West any more; the elite teams were returning to the pack last season, even.
Phoenix for example: they made it to the WCF in a mild surprise (to everyone except John Hollinger), and then Amar’e left. There are more “middle class” teams now, as opposed to monsters, left.
If our franchise can get its… uh, its “stuff”… together, there would be space for moving upward.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
I feel wise for Guaranateeing a Win to Dominate
If the Wolves two biggest liability show further improvement (Flynn and Pek) This should be enough to turn a few close losses into close wins.
The highlight in the ESPN Game Recap was this line:
" Though his statistics aren’t quite as stunning as Love’s, Bargnani is in a similar bind as a standout on an unsuccessful team."
Love gets All Star love from Marc Stein
Western Conference reserves
Forwards: Dirk Nowitzki (Dallas), Kevin Love (Minnesota)
Love
Nowitzki
If Carmelo Anthony wasn’t voted in by the fans, I’m not totally sold that he’d make the West roster, even when he’s rebounding the ball better than he ever has (8.0 rpg) and still scoring at an elite clip (23.6 ppg) in the face of the trade drama that has polluted the Rocky Mountain air since late September. That’s how deep the talent pool is on this side of the conference divide.
There is zero hesitation, furthermore, when it comes to the following claim: Nowitzki should and would be starting over Anthony at West forward if the coaches had any control there. Dirk was shooting a ridiculous 54.5 percent from the floor and playing MVP ball before a knee sprain that wound up costing him nine games … and the time away might have actually made a bigger impression on observers leaguewide who have grown somewhat numb to the German’s greatness because the Mavs were so unwatchable without him.
Yet nothing about this process is harder than settling on two more forwards to fill out the West’s roster, with as many worthy names in circulation as I can ever remember. Trust us: That point will be slammed home once you get to the full list of Westerners we’re snubbing here.
So how does Love snag the spot opposite Nowitzki when the menu is overflowing with choices? The Mavs’ Rick Carlisle publicly acknowledged this week that “the coaches’ vote is always tipped heavily toward winning” — and I know I’ve annoyed plenty of readers over the years with my own stubborn support of the same team-success doctrine — but I can’t ignore what Love is doing in the arctic climes of Sota. He’s assembling a historically special season that has convinced me that Carlisle and his peers, for once, are going to look past Minnesota’s 10-35 misery.
As you’ve surely heard by now, Love is bidding to become the first player since Moses Malone in 1982-83 to average 20 points and 15 boards for an entire season … except that Moses sure didn’t shoot 44.7 percent on 3s while he was vacuuming in board after board. It’s only a humble hunch, but something tells me Love is going to get as much or more support from the coaches as Blake Griffin, partly because rookies (fair or not) always have it tougher to score All-Star votes but also because the Wolves aren’t universally mocked like most 10-35 teams would be, since they’ve been in so many games before their youth eventually doomed them in crunch time.
It also doesn’t hurt that folks are still buzzing about the magical 30/30 game Love uncorked against New York, which is something else we haven’t seen since Moses did it in the ’82-83 season.
http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/dime-110128-30/stein-all-star-reserves
"The journey of 1000 miles, begins with a TWolves victory"
No Duncan and Aldridge heh
"I haven't died," he said. "Right now I'm drinking a beer and eating fried chicken. What were you expecting, a funeral?" - Yao Ming
I'll quote this part of the article and take it as a compiment to the Wolves:
“partly because rookies (fair or not) always have it tougher to score All-Star votes but also because the Wolves aren’t universally mocked like most 10-35 teams would be, since they’ve been in so many games before their youth eventually doomed them in crunch time.
"a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma."
Yeah, I teared up a little
when I read that. sniff.
DeMarcus Cousins
19-6-5 first half against NO. Fudge
Yeah, but
I heard he muttered the F-word after missing a shot, so, no THANK you!
Kevin Love is not the problem.
In this game alone
he is going to top Darko’s career single game highs in points, rebounds, and assists (he’s already done it in assists).
This comes one night after outscoring Andrew Bynum and Pau Gasol COMBINED in an upset of the defending champions.
Meanwhile Wes getting 13 points against bench players is a sign that he’s “really starting to come around.”
Kevin Love is not the problem.
by PoorDick on Jan 29, 2011 10:37 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Well played.
Whenever I'm about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing.
I'm still cryin' over the Flynn pick.
I need more time to get over that one.
"The journey of 1000 miles, begins with a TWolves victory"
I seriously still can not believe we sat at 4 and took Wes
Can not believe.
by WolvesFan03 on Jan 29, 2011 11:05 PM CST up reply actions
Why?
I have been trying since the summer of 2009 to talk myself into the David Kahn regime, but he obviously doesn’t think the we do.
by PhoenixWolf on Jan 29, 2011 11:08 PM CST up reply actions
I meant it more as an expression of exasperation than incredulity
I too was skeptical of the Kahn regime from the very beginning, and unfortunately it’s turned out to be even worse than I feared.
by WolvesFan03 on Jan 29, 2011 11:10 PM CST up reply actions
This might be just crazy enough to work
can only last for so long
by PhoenixWolf on Jan 29, 2011 11:12 PM CST up reply actions
He led our team in points, rebounds and assists tonight.
Nobody has done that since Webber. Well, maybe Tyreke when he got his TD last year. But that’s it.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jan 30, 2011 12:27 AM CST up reply actions
DeMarcus Cousins is the young Grant Hill?
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
He also gave up
15 points on 5-5 shooting to Emeka Okafor.
25-12-7
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jan 30, 2011 12:23 AM CST up reply actions
That's a top effort by Cousins
It’s always good to see a young guy string together some good performances and make the early indications they will deliver on their potential.
I’ve never seen DeMarcus play so I can’t really compare the two blokes. But it really is not fair to describe Wes as a bust, he is not even close to being a bust. However, he isn’t the finished product we were led to believe he would be. I really think Wes’ offensive game is excellent and early season tentativeness with his dribble seem to be on the wane.
The flip side is his defense, which has been inconsistent and more often than not poor. Unfortunately I’m not smart enough to offer any solutions on the defensive end, or any hope that it might improve miraculously. But I absolutely hope it does, because Wes is the kind of player I like, and want to support.
We weren't led to believe Wes Johnson was a finished product.
Lots of this board was led to believe he was a conspicuously unfinished player whose age argued against his developing as much from this point as he might.
And here we are.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Let me know when we move from the
“How can you know that Wes won’t turn into a dynamic pro?” stage to the “Why are you talking about the past?” stage of excuse making. It usually takes three years from the draft for that to happen full bore.
Classic Wolves Pessimist
Not saying if your wrong or not, but just the general level of assuming every player won’t pan out, and that we will always lose.
I can see what you might take that path, but man, I don’t think I would spend my time following sports if that’s how I looked at it.
More love for Love
From the Raptors blog:
I’ll take K Love over anyone in a Raptors uniform.by RaptorsHQ – Defensive Stance on Jan 29, 2011 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
He getting to be one of the most well known players in the league. He just might have a shot at the all star game.
"The journey of 1000 miles, begins with a TWolves victory"
I should hope so
That’s like us saying we’d take Blake Griffin over anyone in a Wolves uniform. There’s obviously cases you’d be wrong in doing so, but it’s just not likely.
Whenever I'm about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing.
Still trade Flynn for Thompson?
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jan 30, 2011 12:23 AM CST reply actions
Johnny had a good game
He looked more like himself out there. Productively flashy. It was good to see.
by Michael C. Boosalis II on Jan 30, 2011 1:10 AM CST reply actions
"Productively flashy."
That was my problem with his game.
He was throwing the same type of passes that a team that most teams turn into turnovers. It worked against Toronto because they clearly didn’t bother to show up.
No Joy in Mudville?
We just WON A GAME, and the tone is pretty negative. If the losses are hard to take, and the wins are meaningless, it’s pretty hard to be a fan.
The outcome was very much in doubt until the 3rd. We were only up by 1 at the end of the 1st. We were on the second of a back-to-back and it must have been a late-arriving flight from Utah last night. The Raptors didn’t just miss shots for no reason…..Darko shut down Bargnani, who average 21.5. And even the Corey haters must have liked his dunks and energy….does anyone have a higher average dunk velocity in the league??? Overall, a nice effort from the team….Beasley must have been too tired, but we had his back….
Nevermind Beasley's shooting
All scorers have tough nights from the floor. Here are the stats I look at now with Beasley: FTAs, TOs, PFs, and Assts – and pretty much in that order of priority. Last night in 24 minutes he had 6 FTAs, 1 TO, 3 PFs, and 2 Assts. He also had 6 rebounds. So while on one level he didn’t have a good game, in the areas that I feel he needs to improve to take his game to the next level, he did quite well.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 30, 2011 7:34 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
good points
I agree that is a good way to look at Beasley’s game.
I liked Darko's Passing
from the high post. Why we constantly play him in the low post, I don’t know.
If the losses are hard to take, and the wins are meaningless, it’s pretty hard to be a fan.
Glad somebody said it. Unless this complaining is somehow productive for you as a person, what’s the point?
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jan 30, 2011 8:01 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Thank you
You must of read my comment earlier in this post. I posted it after you did, but I’m sure you used some sort of ESP tricks.
Anyways, yes. Just yes. Why bother to follow a team if every player sucks and our future is as bleak as anything due to a moronic front office and coach?
Enjoy the wins, be bummed at the losses, but look at the fun parts. Really, what else can you do?
Wow, was not expecting such a negative post-game thread
I agree that the Raptors didn’t play hard tonight. However, how many games have we said “Wolves have a chance in this one” only to see them lose. CHA when they had all those players hurt, DEN when they had all those players hurt, HOU recently. I’m quite happy to see the Wolves beat a fellow lottery team.
A few things stood out to me:
- Best game I’ve seen Flynn play all year. A lot less fluff and silly turnovers and some very nice passes. Not so sure about the threes he took; it is nice they went in but they seemed like forced shots. Still, it was the first time this year I was hoping Rambis wouldn’t bring Luke back. Flynn outplayed him IMO.
- I thought Wes played well, offensively at least. Hit some shots, got to the line, and I think (not sure) he threw a nice pass leading to the big Webster jam down the lane.
- Webster looked very good offensively tonight. Reminded me of the preseason.
- Tolliver is starting to look closer to his pre-injury form, hitting some threes and playing defense.
- Darko didn’t put up gaudy stats, but I thought he played fairly well. Dunked the ball several times, blocked and altered some shots, made some very nice passes.
- Pekovic also played fairly well on both sides of the ball. Had some nice plays on defense where he defended the paint.
- Brewer took a really hard fall. Hoping he is OK.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
Pek was a rock
They were bouncing off him all night. The Toronto announcers were gushing about Love, Wes, and were impressed with Peks toughness. I hope the team can carry this over to the next game. Man, when the shots started dropping, we really took off. Good game tonight, guys. Keep it up.
"The journey of 1000 miles, begins with a TWolves victory"
Wes played well defensively, too.
Also, good points about Flynn. He was very solid—made the simple passes, rather than the stupid ones.
Toronto's not a good team...
…but they’re better than they showed tonight. Dunno what happened on their end.
On our end, Love got it done is short minutes, and one can only hope that these versions of Wes, Webster and Jonny show up every game.
Still, with the Kings winning back-to-backs, we’re again the second worst team in the league, so….
11 wins at the end of last January....
….11 wins at the end of this January. That’s $12.5 mil on free agents (Luke, Darko, Pek) and 5 draft picks (including 3 first rounders) to end up exactly where they were last year with the illusion that they’re somehow a whole lot better outside of anything except Kevin Love being awesome.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
BTW
That’s perhaps the #1 reason why they’re not going to be able to make a big trade. What owner in his right mind would allow a GM with that type of track record to spend more money?
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
A counselor might describe this as "circular thinking" on your part.
A psychiatrist would prescribe another team.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Sure, but
“Another Team” has been linked to side effects such as abdominal bloating, self-loathing, radioactive flatulence, faecoencephaly, stuttering, ball-pounding, poorly-hemmed trousers, a propensity to say “nauseous” instead of “nauseated,” the yips, and Ben Roethlisberger.
Ask your doctor if it’s right for you.
You are a little soul carrying a corpse. --Epictetus
by Cynical Jason on Jan 30, 2011 10:02 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Ever see Sarah Haskins?
She does (did?) a series of little video clips about how advertisers address themselves to women. Her birth control short tackles “Yaz” – the one where the woman doctor recites all the fine print to her friends at a night club.
Somehow, your list of symptoms… I feel like I could make a similar send-up of Timberwolves fandom, right now.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
I'd never heard of her before
but that’s a pretty good takedown of one of my biggest pet peeves. I approve.
The only side effect I get from Wolves fandom is sadness, but I see your point.
You are a little soul carrying a corpse. --Epictetus
by Cynical Jason on Jan 31, 2011 3:58 PM CST up reply actions
Check out her home security ad video sometime.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Oh, and a "rec" for knowing that I'm nauseated, not nauseous, when I think about Glen Taylor approving trades.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
If I'm a frugal owner
and I’m looking for a way to improve a team that is below-average on offense and terrible on defense, I start looking for a head coaching candidate who is a defensive specialist. I’m not sure if these guys are capable of developing into an above-average team on defense, but they are young enough to hope there is room for improvement in that area.
This goes double if they can’t get Rubio on the team, and the Flashy Dashy High Flyin’ Alley Oopin’ Slammin’ Jammin’ Show doesn’t quite come to fruition.
Kevin Love is not the problem.
by PoorDick on Jan 30, 2011 9:08 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
, said Po'Dick.
Whenever I'm about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing.
What's the strength of schedule to this point in comparison to last year?
I watched the team from February on out and it was pitiful. This year, the team is — at times — exciting to watch and I find myself tuned in even when Darko’s not playing. There’s no way I would have wasted a night doing so last year.
If one of the stat guys could help me out, I’d appreciate it. It feels like the Wolves have faced a playoff-team laden schedule to start the season.
Ailuridae - Why can't we be friends? Why can't we be friends?
by DarkoMilicic on Jan 30, 2011 9:17 AM CST up reply actions
Plus, who'd you rather have?
Tolliver/Pekovic or Ryan Hollins?
Ailuridae - Why can't we be friends? Why can't we be friends?
by DarkoMilicic on Jan 30, 2011 9:18 AM CST up reply actions
Also 12.5 million SPENT on free agents and 13 million UNLOADED in the form of Al Jefferson.
Ailuridae - Why can't we be friends? Why can't we be friends?
by DarkoMilicic on Jan 30, 2011 9:19 AM CST up reply actions
Are you using that...
….as a point for me or against your own point of using that money to get Darko and Pek?
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
$13M
is still too much for Jefferson on a team struggling to win 20 games. Especially with the redundancy of Love, the poor leadership, and the godawful no-good porous defense.
I’m not happy with how we spent the money either, but it’s better than having to find some way to cram 80 minutes worth of crappy defense into our front court that only has 48 crappy defensive frontcourt minutes available.
As you can probably tell, I still think the Jefferson move was a tremendous idea. I agree we blamed him too much for our losing, but he certainly deserved very little credit for our tremendous winning.
Whenever I'm about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing.
It's a point FOR me.
They got rid of a terrible contract and replaced it with modest contracts that more than make up for the “production” Al Jefferson gave (scoring 20 and giving up 25…exaggeration but you get the point). I’m confused how this would be a point against me…they replaced inflated stats with veteran players who fill in all spots.
Would this even be a discussion if my name wasn’t Darko Milicic, but rather “Wolvesfan9048”?
Ailuridae - Why can't we be friends? Why can't we be friends?
by DarkoMilicic on Jan 30, 2011 11:48 AM CST up reply actions
I think the problem is
Darko gets 9 and gives up 15.
Yeah he’s not giving up as much, but he’s not getting nearly as much either. And because the rest of our team don’t really make up for those points either, we just have a whole bunch of negative production across the board (Except for the PF spot and sometimes the SF spot).
Whenever I'm about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing.
I'm sure he gives up something along those lines...
However, that’s impressive considering he takes on the best big from the other team EVERY night. I’m not sure the Kings tell Cousins to guard the best big…in fact, I’m betting they do the opposite. He can barely stay on the court…
Ailuridae - Why can't we be friends? Why can't we be friends?
by DarkoMilicic on Jan 30, 2011 1:21 PM CST up reply actions
It's a point against you...
….because they’re still paying $13 mil for what? Production that equals what Jefferson had? More than what he had? More or less than a contract like Iggy that they weren’t wanting to take on last year? It’s a question of resources per dollar and I’m not sure that saying “hey look, they got Darko and Pek for the money they spent on Al” is that great of an argument.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
That will change...
….with the Love and Beasley extensions.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
Not...
…unless you think Taylor will spend more money in the interim on a GM who hasn’t shown he can maximize resources. That money is already set aside, especially with the new CBA coming on line. Who knows what it will be?
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
No idea
And I think the Jefferson trade was about Taylor cutting his losses more than anything else. But this was a team on the verge of the luxury tax for several years so one can hope that the payroll will rise again. If the salary cap stays where it’s at we still will have room under it in two years even with Love and Beasley extensions. Is there any proof that a Beasley extension is a sure thing anyway?
I haven't heard anything solid...
…on Beasley’s extension. I’ll ask around. My guess is that it will be a typical “we’ll have to wait and see what the new CBA brings” type of answer.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
Let him go restricted
If the cap goes down to 50 million next year and the rules stay the same, he could get an extension starting at 12.5 million. Short of a major discount off that number, I’d take Beasley to restricted free agency, assuming it still exists. And if we give Love the extension a potential “franchise tag” could be used on Beasley if he takes that next step.
I hope there is a franchise tag..
…because I don’t think Beasley is the guy they’ll have to use it on.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
A max extension for Love
Should be automatic. Hard to believe he would turn it down. Carmelo, Bosh, LeBron, etc. all signed extensions after year three.
But...
Pekovic and Darko make what, 7 million, combined? That’s 56% of Jefferson’s salary…so if they produced 13/8 in 36 minutes a night, I’d say it was a good “drop-off” (not counting the defensive side of the ball). Add in Ridnour who basically saved the team from running a non-NBA quality PG rotation.
Ailuridae - Why can't we be friends? Why can't we be friends?
by DarkoMilicic on Jan 30, 2011 1:22 PM CST up reply actions
You're picking nits with...
….roster spots 8-12 with a guy who was a productive starter. I can’t get all that worked up about Ridnour’s value when a) they could have drafted a rookie-scale PG to fill the spot for less, b) Sessions was on the roster, and c) they’ve blown through an insane amount of resources on the PG spot for a whole lot of nothing.
I don’t think Darko or Pek were bad signings. I just don’t think it proves anything to get all excited about how they’ve filled in the space for Jefferson. It’s kind of a wash (at best) at this point…and we’re in the pre-Darko-tuning-out phase of the equation.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
But Darko tuning out phase may work out for the best.
It probably won’t, but since we survived “bunnies month” let’s imagine this fantasy. Pekovic continues to show improvement and is able by the end of year two to play NBA basketball. He’s used to the pace, doesn’t goal tend on the offensive side, commits less than 1 three seconds in the lane penalty a week, and has paid his dues enough to stop racking up “fouls” and smartened up enough to limit his actual fouls. He’s shooting with a FG% above .500 and crashing the offensive boards.
Meanwhile Darko tunes out and becomes a bench big with a “expiring contract” as the fourth year is only partially guaranteed. We can send Darko and enough cash to pay for the 4th year buy out in exchange for an asset from a team looking to cut costs.
I hope Darko plays well enough to be worth while throughout the contract, but it’s Pekovic I’m hoping really starts to improve. Darko’s deal is structured so that we only really need him on tuned in this year, next year and close to the trade deadline of the year after that.
Even if it’s not Pekovic it could be Love at the 5, or one of the Euro’s I have suspect we’ll end up drafting this year.
Don’t get me wrong it should have been Cousins all along, but that shipped sailed.
make room for Love
I do think Kahn might have gotten more for Al, but I also don’t think KLove would be making the kind of leap he is if Al were still here.
Dragging the point guard mess into the Darko mess is not fair to Darko or the pgs. The players the Wolves have are not the embodiment of Kahn.
by WinTheLottery on Jan 30, 2011 2:39 PM CST up reply actions
Correct me if Im wrong but they haven't spent the Al $ on anyone...yet.
Did I miss something? Wasn’t Ridnour’s $ Sessions, Gomes $ Webster etc.
I’ll reserve judgement until they finish Jefferson $ …….
by Tangerine dream on Jan 30, 2011 12:18 PM CST up reply actions
Read the article above this one
The money is already mostly spoken for. Unless you think Taylor is going to let Kahn waste more of his money before the trade deadline, we already know where the money is going: Love, Beasley, and Rubio.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
I Do
I think they want to make a trade. So we’ll see.
One thing we agree upon, I’d trade this summer’s pick for Ellis
without blinking. This team doesn’t need to get younger. IMO Beasley was the Wolves 2011 lottery pick. There is no more room or time for the unknown (that includes Rubio). Time to add a couple of proven vets.
by Tangerine dream on Jan 30, 2011 1:31 PM CST up reply actions
I'd trade anything not named Love..
….for Ellis (or Curry for that matter).
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
Not sure where they were last year at this time
but the according to Hollinger they are at the 4th hardest SOS. I am still hoping for an uneven ending to the season where more wins will come with an easier schedule and last night was the start.
I also would like to know this. I know they are 2 -16 in games decided by 2 points or less. They are close, but can’t close out against good teams. In the last couple games I’ve seen them take some good charges and actually get their feet planted in front of people. Slight improvement in the 3 point defense, but that might be bad shooting by everyone else.
Two poxes (poxii?) on your house
One for making up the “2 – 16 in games decided by 2 points or less” statistic, and another for making me go look up the actual stat (which appears to be 2 – 3 — so actually, they’ve been more likely to win close games than they have ones with wider margins).
Kevin Love is not the problem.
I often confuse the numbers 2 and 6.
They’re so similar, it’s tricky.
If it wasn't for Jordan Farmar and that guy Kevin Love, I would've killed somebody!
Point Differential Says Otherwise
I’m not a Kahn supporter but I am a Hollinger supporter and Hollinger would say the Wolves are better.
by PhoenixWolf on Jan 30, 2011 11:17 AM CST up reply actions
Another Hollinger stat
The Wolves are getting better with the scoring margin. Over the last 25% of games they are at -3.92. For the season they are -5.36. That is a positive step considering that over the last 11 to 12 games there haven’t been many wins. It means that they are close losses rather than hang-your-head/this-team-really-sucks blowouts.
SnP
Do you honestly believe we haven’t improved at all from last year to this year?
Clearly missing Love for so many games and minutes hurt, but I don’t think there’s a question about if we’re better or not. As has been brought up below, we’ve had a tremendously difficult schedule. But as has also been brought up below, we have improved our point differential.
So:
Harder schedule + smaller differential = same record
But:
Harder schedule + smaller differential != no improvement
Therefore:
Same record != no improvement
Clearly we’ve had games similar to last season and we still have some huge holes in our coaching staff, but I think it’s pretty clear that we’re a drastically improved team.
Last year sucked. It was taxing.
This year is tough to stomach. Still taxing.
Not nearly as much, though.
Whenever I'm about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing.
I guess I'm confused
because the only good things I ever hear you say about us compared to last year is that Love has made an improvement and gotten the minutes he deserved. From where I’m standing, I think there are more areas we have improved.
Whenever I'm about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing.
I'm not so sure
As I’ve said elsewhere, I think a lot of our improvement can be attributed to Love’s massive leap in both production rates and his increase in minutes. Win shares aren’t perfect, but they give a rough idea: he’s accumulated 7.8 this year compared to 4.9 all of last year. That’s in no small part thanks to a massive leap in scoring efficiency (.595 TS% to .549), a small jump in rebounding rate, and a significant drop in TO rate (13.2 to 11.2.)
I’m hard-pressed to find significant improvement elsewhere. We’re still about the same defensively (26th in DRTG this year vs 28th last year). We’ve improved offensively, but a good deal of that is most certainly coming from Love.
And, finally, at the end of the day, there is no team in the western conference that has been outscored by more on average than us. Not the Kings. Not the Warriors. Nobody. We aren’t that close.
by WolvesFan03 on Jan 30, 2011 12:03 PM CST up reply actions
Oh, and usage too
Love’s scoring more efficiently AND using more possessions on offense (the best of both worlds).
by WolvesFan03 on Jan 30, 2011 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
Also..
….Love has now played more minutes, scored more points, and grabbed more rebounds than he did all of last year. He has the team’s most 3 pointers, free throws (by over 125 attempts and 140 makes), lowest turnover rate of anyone with decent minutes, best TS% of any starter, and he does it all with the 2nd highest usage rate on the team. It’s obscene how much of the load he carries. Yes, they only have 11 wins but that’s hardly his fault.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
I honestly believe...
….this team is the equal of 2008. I’ve said that for going on 2 months now. Last year was a fraud. Kahn has taken 6 first round picks, millions of free agent dollars, and Al Jefferson to turn the 2008 Wolves into the 2008 Wolves. Other than Love, this team is garbage and we’re on the verge of letting the clown in charge get another offseason to waste more money and draft picks.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
That's an absurd comparison
I’m too lazy to figure out how badly the Wolves were in point differential through the end of January last season but it was sure 150% worse than 5.4 Pts/Possessions.
Yes given their resources at the end of last off-season the Wolves should be far far closer to .500. But they are not, in any honest way, remotely “exactly where they were last year”. They are much, much better.
BTW
It was 96.1 to 105.7. They did have an equally tough schedule:
Team Won-Lost Profiles
Opp. Rank
Good
Average
Poor
Stat
W
L
W%
Net
W
L
W%
Net
W
L
W%
Net
Points For
2 14 13% -11.7
4 9 31% -4.5
2 8 20% -12.9
Points Agn
2 10 17% -12.3
2 10 17% -9.6
4 11 27% -7.5
Net Points
3 15 17% -12.4
1 9 10% -8.8
4 7 36% -5.7
Off eFG%
2 12 14% -12.4
2 16 11% -10.4
4 3 57% -2.1
Def eFG%
1 12 8% -10.8
4 11 27% -10.7
3 8 27% -6.6
FTA Net
1 13 7% -13.6
0 12 0% -11.4
7 6 54% -3.6
Rebounds
3 10 23% -9.8
1 6 14% -12.0
4 15 21% -8.6
Turnovers
1 12 8% -12.2
6 4 60% 0.0
1 15 6% -13.5
Assists
4 17 19% -10.6
1 7 13% -10.8
3 7 30% -6.6
Blocks
0 9 0% -12.9
4 12 25% -9.7
4 10 29% -7.4
Pace
4 10 29% -8.6
4 12 25% -5.5
0 9 0% -18.4
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
I'll flag it
so the site’s admin can take a look at it. He’s a whiz with computers, so it shouldn’t take long.
Kevin Love is not the problem.
Yeah..
….it was definitely a BS cheap shot on my part. I should have stuck with the 08 comps.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
Yeah, let's ignore advanced metrics when they don't fit your narrative...
Metrics like SRS and Expected W-L that put the Wolves in the “as good as or better than” area compared to the Nets, Kings, Wizards, and Raptors while being within pissing distance of the Warriors, Pistons, and Bobcats. Meanwhile, their schedule to this point has been more difficult than any team except the Mavs, Bucks, and Cavs.
I get that watching a win is more fun than watching a loss, but as this thread is making very clear, some wins mean more than others and not even winning is satisfying for some. Honestly, what the fuck does a person’s favorite team winning really do for them as a person? Is it something they can put on a resume or that they can get a medal for? It’d be different if these losses were costing them a playoff berth, but they’re not. On some level, wins mainly matter when they decide playoff berths and when they determine where a deciding playoff game is played at home or on the road.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jan 30, 2011 8:49 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
PSR comes out of hiding!
I liked the post enough to rec it, but I would also point out that SRS (and by extension, Expected W-L) take strength of schedule into account. It would be dishonest to imply that these metrics put us even with NJN, SAC, WAS, and TOR while implying that an easier schedule would have the same metrics rate us better. Not that that’s necessarily what you were doing.
If it wasn't for Jordan Farmar and that guy Kevin Love, I would've killed somebody!
Good point
I just can’t come on here after every game. If I wanted to obsess over sports, I’d go into coaching. I wasn’t implying that, but I can see how the post was ambiguous. It’s more about the hypothesis that maybe playing an easier schedule will lead to more wins.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jan 30, 2011 11:24 PM CST up reply actions
Missing person
Did Chuckd’s parents take his computer away?
by Tangerine dream on Jan 30, 2011 9:37 AM CST reply actions
He lost it due to crashing investments on the Asian market.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Dog Fried Rice
is no longer a hot commodity.
Ahh, the thin line between homerism and objectivity
by WhiteManCantWrite on Jan 30, 2011 9:42 AM CST up reply actions
I love Love
but he cant play an ydefesne. I tell this to canis hoopus all the time and no one belives me. He is good for pr thouhg and thast why he will make the allstar tmea.
I’m going to move to Asia where pepole dont get voted in baste off pr.
Whenever I'm about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing.
That's a great virtual impersonation there
Maybe it will stop all the hatin’
"Humor is reason gone mad." Marx (Groucho, for the reason-gone-mad impaired)
I want to get voted into Asia
baste off pr!
You are a little soul carrying a corpse. --Epictetus
by Cynical Jason on Jan 30, 2011 8:39 PM CST up reply actions
just to be clear...
We have had the 4th hardest sos
Of our 11 wins, 10 have been by at least 9 points.
Let’s not kid ourselves into thinking the 11-36 record is an accurate reflection of this team. A trade for a veteran (say c.billups) is all it would take for this team to find itself in the playoff race next year.
by tmbroom on Jan 30, 2011 10:27 AM CST via mobile reply actions
"Let’s not kid ourselves into thinking the 11-36 record is an accurate reflection of this team."
That’s a good line for Kahn to use in his next round of season ticket pitches. Maybe it could even replace United We Run.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
do you truly believe
This is the 2nd worst roster in the league? That this team is anywhere near the team we saw last year who put together a similar record?
I called for curry over flynn the night of the draft. I yelled my share of sarcastic comments at the target center draft party when we took wes over dmc. But I’m not naive enough to think that some progress hasn’t been made during kahns tenure. Because the youngest(?) team in the league can’t close out games against the spurs, thunder, etc? Stop with the pity party about how dreadful this team is and take notice of a team that is well on their way to being competitive against any team on any night.
by tmbroom on Jan 30, 2011 11:40 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I don't think this is what SnP is trying to get at
It’s pretty easy to see why we would have improved in relation to other teams because they got worse. I think when looking at our improvement, we have to look at it as compared to the league average (which is where I believe SnP maintains we are just as bad… If I understand him correctly). Cleveland losing leBron and Toronto losing Bosh isn’t really a feather in the cap of David Kahn.
Whenever I'm about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing.
Pity party?
FFS, they’re awful. I definitely think they’re the 2nd worst roster in the league. They have the record to prove it at this point. Without Love, they’re nothing. They’re not “well on their way” to anything.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
Apologies for the FFS
The Stop-n-Pop household has a cranky baby with an ear infection and I’m a bit nippy. I hear what you’re saying and no, I don’t think much of the roster nor the guy in charge to change it. Kevin Love is the only reason they’re competitive and Kahn and Rambis didn’t get how good he was until 31/31.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
if this team is awful
I’m curious to hear the adjectives you would use to describe the team kahn inherited or the one we saw last year. (please don’t respond with any combination of “al jefferson” and “asset”)
by tmbroom on Jan 30, 2011 12:42 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
You can go back and read for yourself.
It was awful as well. I think because of the amount of assets he’s blown through to drive them sideways, that makes him a far worse GM than the prior regime.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
I really don't get this sort of statement
Is it Love’s fault that they’re this bad? He’s a 22 year old big in his 3rd year with absolutely nothing around him. I just don’t get it.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
Who said it was Love's fault?
I know I didn’t. But, the Wolves have had a healthy Kevin Love for 47 out of 47 games, and they’ve won 11. That’s horrible, so I am annoyed by this “Oh man, imagine how bad it would be WITHOUT Kevin Love!” crap, that’s been written a lot, lately. There’s a point of diminishing suckitude that the Wolves are basically at—at least record-wise. Even the Jefferson-less Wolves of Spring ‘09 won 7 out of 32 games, which is an 18-win pace versus this team’s 19-win pace.
Obviously, we’re better with Love than without him. The numbers clearly bear that out and it’s obvious from watching the games, too. But, record-wise (which I am perfectly fine with, as a measuring stick, but let’s be consistent) we’re about as bad as is possible with Kevin Love leading the team in games started and minutes played. With Love, they’re nothing. Without him, I’m sure they’d be nothing, too.
As for “absolutely nothing around him,” that just isn’t true. Luke Ridnour, Mike Beasley and Martell Webster have all been starters on playoff teams. They just had the good fortune of playing with perennial All-Star caliber talents like Ray Allen, Dwyane Wade, and Brandon Roy. That’s what this team is sorely lacking.
What’s your point? I don’t get what the point is of pointing out that they’re bad with a very good player. The “imagine what they’d be without Love” point is made in response to people imagining that this team is somehow close to a breakthrough or that they’ve made big strides. No, Kevin Love has made big strides. That’s it.
I stand by the “nothing around him” argument. You could add Luke Walton to your argument. There are lots of below average players that play with super stars and then move on to other teams.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
FWIW
I think we can all agree that Love isn’t the type of player you really want to run an offense through. He’s a super-duper role player who gets his numbers in the gaps of the offense and through his rebounding. Despite everything we know about the guy that would limit his production in terms of how people traditionally think about a team’s best player, the guy is able to accumulate a 23% usage rate while having very little run for him and while doing so at amazingly efficient levels. He’s not the type of guy who can carry a team to more than what he’s doing without help. The guy can’t bring the ball up the court. He can’t break his guy down off the dribble on the wing. He’s not the type of guy who can run a two man game from the perimeter in the role of a wing player. How do people honestly expect a guy like this to get more wins? What else can he do? Think about the numbers he’s putting up right now. Think about the role in which he puts them up. Now think about how bad the rest of his team must be to not take advantage of this type of special player. It’s crazy. Throw in a bad coach and it gets even crazier.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
I agree with:
He’s not the type of guy who can carry a team to more than what he’s doing without help.
I don’t agree with:
Now think about how bad the rest of his team must be to not take advantage of this type of special player. It’s crazy.
The rest of the team isn’t as “bad” player to player, as it is bad collectively, because it lacks a dynamic offensive weapon, or two. The defense is bad too, some of which is probably inexperience, some is coaching and some is the physical limitations of the players, including Love.
Or..
….players that have played well other places become worse when they get to play under Rambis.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
Eh, I don't know about that...
Luke, Beasley, Martell and Darko all seem to be playing at least as well as with their prior teams. Rambis is a part of the equation, but I’m not going to make the blanket statement that players get worse under him. Love might get worse whenever he plays for his next coach, at least in terms of numb#rs.
But that means not being able to distill a somewhat-complicated answer...
Into a catchphrase: “They’re a one-man team!” “They’re the same as in ’08!” “Rambis sucks in all areas of coaching!”
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jan 30, 2011 8:24 PM CST up reply actions
Two of the players you mentioned have never been that good.
Darko and Webster are still producing at below average NBA levels and still aren’t very consistent. Luke actually isn’t playing as well as he did last season and Beasley is right around where he was last season.
PS
I know Walton hasn’t moved on. Poorly worded on my part.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
Set your bar for success
We’re coming out of a month in which the Wolves won 3 games, all at home against teams with an average winning percentage of 0.282. I put up a poll at the beginning of last month asking what people would define as success. Three wins was not a popular answer.
So I ask you: when are you going to be willing to hold Kahn and/or Rambis accountable? And more specifically, what level of success must they fail to achieve to make you unhappy by the end of February? In February, the Wolves play 13 games, with 8 at home and 9 against sub-.500 teams. Beasley, Flynn, and Webster seem to be getting healthier. Another 3-win month is just not acceptable to me.
by Madison Dan on Jan 30, 2011 12:23 PM CST up reply actions
Couldn't agree more
Team is healthy, getting cohesive, and schedule is for the first time favorable.
This is an important month for Coach Rambis. They need to win 6-7 games.
If they win 3-4 again management needs to know what % is coach and what % is talent. They need to know this before the offseason and before the draft. It’s time for Kurt to step up. Personally I think the talent is there to have a 7-6 month. Less than 5-8 is unacceptable.
by Tangerine dream on Jan 30, 2011 12:46 PM CST up reply actions
5-8 sounds like a good minimum to me
At this point, they ought to be able to win at a 31.5-win pace during a month with a favorable schedule.
by Madison Dan on Jan 30, 2011 12:51 PM CST up reply actions
They do need to "make a run" this month
Another tilt with the Raptors and plus the Bucks, Pacers and 76ers all bode well.
The real tests will be the Grizz 2X, Warriors and Rockets. Those are all games that should be competitive and if they aren’t it is a bad sign.
Here is the poll
http://www.canishoopus.com/2010/12/30/1904410/what-defines-success-in-january
6 wins was the winner.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
How, exactly, are you going to hold them accountable?
If you don’t want to follow them, then just don’t. If you think Glen Taylor or Rob Moor or Chris Wright give two shits about the opinions of anyone on this blog, you’re sorely mistaken.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jan 30, 2011 8:10 PM CST up reply actions
By not making excuses
Not thinking we’re one draft pick away, etc.
And I don’t think I’m sorely mistaken. Teams need fans. We’re fans, at least for now. Teams take action when the fan base is angry or apathetic. So sure, they’re not hanging on my every word, but as a group, I think we do matter.
by Madison Dan on Jan 30, 2011 9:06 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Fans do hold their teams accountable
While my reference to “inexcusable” was from a fan reference, not meant to imply consequences, the fans do have quite a say.
Marketing = eyeballs = fans = $$.
While fans don’t have a say in individual decisions, nor should they, they do have the final say on whether to buy a ticket, or merchandise, watch on tv…
And you can trust that the temperature of the fan base is very much on the minds of team execs.
by Tangerine dream on Jan 30, 2011 11:16 PM CST up reply actions
That could've been clearer
It’s just that the team gets affected mostly by how fans exercise their wallets. Holding them accountable means some sort of action like that and not just talking. This isn’t politics where we could vote out any of these guys. Also, I guess I’d argue that a fan in the stands/buying apparel/watching them on TV and supporting their corporate sponsors is worth a lot more to the team than someone who just talks about them online. I’m not implying anything about any people, but a lot of the accountability talk (not just these comments or this whole thread) is based more on what we as fans would do in a decision-making position than it is about actually figuring how to really force their hand, even if it’s just by making individual decisions to not give $ to Glen Taylor.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jan 30, 2011 11:33 PM CST up reply actions
Strength of schedule is important
and I do think it suggests that our current record undersells this team somewhat. However, this team is still easily the worst team in the western conference (measured by overall record, point differential, and conference record). Another veteran does not put them in the race for the playoffs in the West. East, maybe. Not the West.
by WolvesFan03 on Jan 30, 2011 10:47 AM CST up reply actions
No more made-up numbers plz.
We beat the Cavs by 1 in Cleveland, and we beat the Clippers on the Beasley buzzer beater. There’s two games off the top of my head that disprove your stat.
If it wasn't for Jordan Farmar and that guy Kevin Love, I would've killed somebody!
That's just crazy talk
you’re clearly remembering this incorrectly. We did beat the Clippers with the Beasley buzzer beater, but it was to push the win to double digits, duh!
Whenever I'm about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing.
i guess so
But you should take it up with ESPNs game summary…
“This was win No. 11 for the Wolves, but 10 of them have come by nine points or more.”
by tmbroom on Jan 30, 2011 11:52 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
To be fair it isnt
Frustration with management aside this team is much better than it’s record. And I think that’s a concencus league wide. They’ve been brutalized by injuries and coughed up at least 4-5 sure victories (out of 8-10 potential). They have also had an extremely tough schedule.
That stated, if they had 18-20 wins would that be satisfactory progress?
by Tangerine dream on Jan 30, 2011 10:47 AM CST reply actions
Score one for the Jonny Flynn Fan Club!
Everything in the computer need my face on it. Mega Gigabytes, son!
Two main thoughts while leaving TC last night
1. If the Wolves had played like this on Wednesday they would have been killed by the Thunder. It would have been a 20+ point blowout.
2. The bottom of the East is beyond terrible.
Last night looked like a team that was trudging through the second game of a away-home back to back. Beasley couldn’t hit a shot and Brewer was so passive on the offensive end that he took only one shot (which he did make at least since it was a dunk). The only starter who really played well was Love. Their play was pretty uninspired and it would have been an ugly result against a decent team. Eight turnovers from the starters was not a good thing either considering their limited minutes on the floor. Pek still doesn’t seem to understand the 3 second rule. I thought he had gotten better, but playing extended minutes showed he had not. Sure it was garbage time, but why was Bassy jacking up three pointers like he was the ghost of Shaddy?
Luckily, the Raptors were even worse. Until garbage time hit they were in the upper 20s for FG% and that was probably the best part of their game. Actually the Raptors were rebounding well, but they were really bad in every other area. I completely expect a different Raptors team in the rematch in Toronto this upcoming week. It won’t be a bloodbath next time. There is no way Bargnani and DeRozan turn in 5-24 and 2-11 performances again.
That brings me to the Eastern Conference and how bad the bottom is. Seven of the Wolves wins have come against the bottom half of the East and another win came against the Knicks who were in the bottom of the East at that time. How about the Cavs pulling out one of their 8 wins against the West? Can the Wolves petition to play in an easier conference to pick up some more wins?
On the positive side:
Beasley did start to make some drives to the basket to get himself to the foul line. This is a thing good scorers do when their shot isn’t falling. Beasley needs to get better at this to get himself on track. The Wolves also need to do more clear out/iso situations to allow him to work on a defender better. Way to many times when he tries to drive to the basket there are too many other Wolves and players guarding them clogging things up. Beasley seems to be better at passing out of trouble as the season has progressed and this could be a good added weapon having him drive and kick when the defense collapses on him.
Darko stayed out on the Italian Stallion pretty well most of the night. There were a few times when he strayed and got burned or AB missed an open shot. But overall he deserves some props for keeping in his face pretty well.
Pek used the window nicely a couple of times and did a good job of clogging things up with his wide body on the defensive end. He also didn’t foul every ten seconds which is promising. One of his fouls was even pretty poorly called since a guard was driving baseline and basically bounced off of Pek who was basically stationary with his arms down. The ref figured it had to be a foul because the guy was on the floor and Pek didn’t even flinch.
Jonny had a 4:1 assist to turnover ratio. Please let that be a trend and not an abberation.
It seemed like the backups where in tune with each other much better tonight than most nights. This may be a case of them actually being together as a unit for a few weeks now. Injuries had prevented much chemistry there before. If the second unit can elevate on a consistent basis it will help this team so much.
Love put up awesome numbers again: 6-10 from the field and 2-4 from beyond the arc.
I am really hoping that the combination of a more favorable schedule and improvement from the 2nd team gets things rolling a bit here in the back half of the season.
I think Beasley's biggest problem when he drives
might be that he tries to jump forward more than he tries to jump upward… This is something I will have to pay closer attention to moving forward. A lot easier to get your shot affected when you jump in between the guys instead of above them. At the very least, he could do a Maggette-impersonation and jump into them and hope for the best?
Whenever I'm about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing.
Just like the picture and caption above
He does need to learn to use his body better when going after an opponent.
It's going to be fun after Wesley Johnson has his breakthrough as
a quality wing player and those who doubted him will get to join the bandwagon. That’s always more fun than the other way around.
Everything in the computer need my face on it. Mega Gigabytes, son!
4 straight games scoring in double-digits off the bench
and a total of only 4 turnovers in those games. Good sign.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 30, 2011 5:49 PM CST up reply actions
I certainly hope so.
I’m a Wes doubter, but I’d love to jump on the bandwagon if he breaks through.
I know what you mean, though, as its been fun seeing Love doubters (not necessarily on this board, which has always been mostly pro-Love, but among casual NBA fans I talk to) jump on board this season.
by LoveTo on Jan 30, 2011 6:09 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Saving a seat
Keep seat #4 open for Poor Richard.
by Tangerine dream on Jan 30, 2011 7:45 PM CST up reply actions
Thanks--
I’ll keep the availability opening right next to the invitations I received at this time last year to hop aboard the “Jonny Flynn Smile Train,” alongside the isolated but persistent requests from Mplax to sit on the handlebars of the “Wayne Ellington Schwinn Varsity Ten-Speed.”
And if Wes getting into double-digits in scoring (while “defending” several opponents into career-high scoring nights), you must really be flabbergasted by DMC’s recent performances. Imagine how good Cousins will be when he is Wes’ age—which will happenIN 2014!!!!!
Kevin Love is not the problem.
DMC no barometer so don't be threatened by Wes success
It doesn’t bug me that Cousins had a couple of good games. He sure as hell better, he was 5th overall.
But his success or failure doesn’t validate or condemn the Wes pick. Wes’ performance will validate the pick. If Cousins ends up a cancer it still doesn’t necessarily make the Wes pick right, does it? We’ll find someone else the Wolves should have drafted. And if DC grows up and blossoms it doesn’t necessarily make the Wes pick wrong.
You are getting to see more and more lately of what Wes can do. And you will find that he still has a huge ceiling even at the retirement age of 23.
Your need to be right about Cousins supercedes your obligation as a fan to embrace this guy and give him a shot? We get “screen shots” of Cousins’ good games and dismissive sarcasm when Wes does well.
You can be in the DMC fan club and we’ll still save you a seat on Wes’s Joy Love Train.
by Tangerine dream on Jan 30, 2011 8:40 PM CST up reply actions
I'd say he needs to be a legit starter year two and a plus starter year three
Anything more is gravy, but a #4 pick should be a plus starter by year three in my opinion.
Franchise player
The obvious allure with Cousins was that remote (my opinion) chance that he could be your next “franchise player”, thus worth the gamble. understand how fans, still reeling fron KG loss years later would feel that way. Wolves thought if it went the other way it would spell disaster and disrupt their blueprint (understood, you may not view that as a bad thing) .
They picked Wes who in my view will never be a franchise player. Not every lottery pick is chosen with that intention. Unless u are Rocky and Friends down in Miami you generally are limited to one, perhaps two superstars on a team. It isn’t practical or feasible on multiple levels.
While I do think he will be a star in this league I view the pick differently than you and the player differently than you so better starting off by asking you what you think he needs to do to be a successful pick.
Your answer can’t be “be better than Cousins”.
by Tangerine dream on Jan 30, 2011 10:20 PM CST up reply actions
Fair enough.
I have nothing against Wes as a player. He seems to be exactly what most people thought he would be—a nice guy, with a good jump shot. He has the length to be a better defender, and his passing is . . . passable. I’ll alos give him a pass on defense for the time being, since I’m not sure a rookie from Syracuse should be expected to play any semblance of defense in the NBA (why this is a surprise to the Wolves after drafting Jonny Flynn, I do not know).
However, my (misplaced) disdain for him is precisely because he’s exactly what most people thought he would be. I don’t think the “safe” pick is the one the Wolves could make, or should have made (what did they have to lose by taking a younger player with more upside and downside?).
Drafting him makes even less sense when you factor in Brewer, Martell, Beasley, and Ellington being on the roster. And the big-time player most clamored for on these boards is—Andre Iguodala! who plays the same position Wes plays.
If you like the notion of Wes on this team, you’re going to love the likely next Top Five pick of the Wolves, who will likely play a position that is currently occupied by several other well-paid Wolves players. Then we get the pleasure of watching Delightful David Kahn try to:
1. Convince anyone dumb enough to listen that “(New player X) and (Four or Five players already on the roster at the same position) can co-exist.”
2. Peddle away the existing players at the position for 50 cents on the dollar.
3. Hint subtly that (New player X)‘s lack of initial success is really the coach’s fault.
Wes represents (through no fault of his own) everything that is wrong with the Wolves current state. Until he becomes a decent NBA starter (or who knows! Maybe his PER will even get into the double digits before his rookie contract is up!), I won’t enjoy watching him on this team.
And yes, they should have taken Cousins. I said it before and after the draft, and I’m guessing I’ll be cursed with the opportunity to say it again.
Kevin Love is not the problem.
by PoorDick on Jan 30, 2011 11:29 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Here's a more direct question that gets to scarcity of resources
And it relates to both Wes and Martell. Why use a draft pick to acquire someone who with near certaintly will top out somehwere between say 80%-120% of an average player when you have cap space and those players are available in FA. Why Wes and Martell and not, say, Dorrell Wright and Wes Matthews and keep your 4 and 16 picks? If you don’t like those two maybe Anthony Morrow and Ronnie Brewer. Here’s the thing – if you still think Wes has anything but the remotest chance of being an all-star level player ever you’re kidding yourself. And, yes, this should have been obvious from his college production too.
And the worst thing is that they knew – everyone knew – that Beasley was available on draft night for anyone who would be willing to absorb his deal.
And I think the answer at least to the #4 pick on Wes has a lot to do with Darko. And basing any lottery pick around making that sub-mediocrity “comfortable” is the equivalent of taking money and lighting it on fire.
by Ailuridae on Jan 30, 2011 11:49 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Didn't you just ask me a couple weeks ago
about why I wanted Dorrell Wright on our team?
Whenever I'm about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing.
Good stuff
Beast and Martell were not on the roster when Wes was drafted, though Martell had obviously been conceived at that point. Don’t know that they pick Wes if they have Beast. We can agree they probably don’t.
I’ve also stated that if Wes was drafted to be a 25ppg SG or just a SG then it was a mistake. I think the problem is that Wes was drafted to play 3, but when Beast became available for a song the Wolves did the absolute right thing and grabbed him. But this had a trickle down effect to Wes.
My contention is that Wes is so much more than a shooter (that wasn’t at all his identity in college).
I’ve been very frustrated by his lack of rebounding and fts. I credit that to playing out of position and deferring too much.
The last four games you’ve seen shooting but also boards, assists, steals, blocks. I find that encouraging because that is more who Wes is. The guy does have crazy athletic skills, so give him a little time and you might find out he was the safe pick who can do way more than you expected.
by Tangerine dream on Jan 31, 2011 12:18 AM CST up reply actions
Totally.
That’s the other thing about his presence that bugs me, and is completely not his fault: He’s not a fricking 2 guard. They should have started the season with him backing up Beas at the SF, going up against bench players and learning the game. Then, if he gets it, they can give him more minutes on the wing, and against actual NBA starters.
Instead, they rammed him into the starting line-up from the get-go, joining two other players new to the team, Love, and DARKO! All overseen by an inexperienced coach making bewildering substitutions and rotations.
Credit the players for what they’ve actually accomplished—it’s been in spite of the Wolves coaching and front office, not because of it.
Kevin Love is not the problem.
by PoorDick on Jan 31, 2011 12:39 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I'm with you
Think they thought he was the best option at 2. These last few games he’s been splitting time between 2/3. Putting up nice numbers across the board. Previously though he was pidgeon holed. You are right on.
Backing up Beast was a great option.
Anyway, my last word is that I feel he is much more than you think and given a little time also think you’ll be pleasantly surprised.
by Tangerine dream on Jan 31, 2011 1:06 AM CST up reply actions
To be fair,
the last few games Johnson hasn’t been backing up Beasley. He’s been backing up Brewer at the 2, and Webster has been backing up Beas.
It's this because in Rambis' fairytale offensive scheme there is no 2 or 3 and just wings
And it doesn’t matter if he’s a 2 or 3 because they are supposed to be the same thing?
Wow I've been awful as of late
should read “Isn’t this because…”
Which makes Beasley a two!
Right on
by Tangerine dream on Jan 31, 2011 10:48 AM CST up reply actions
Nope
It makes Beasley a wing. Not every offense is neatly organized into the same 1-2-3-4-5 paradigm. If you keep thinking in such set roles and skill sets, it leaves out not only how unique some players are but how
Which brings me to you saying earlier that Wes needs less ball-handling skill if he plays at his best position (SF); that’s also not true. To say that as a SF he’s going to consistently get better angles to the hoop – where all he needs are two dribbles to get to the rack – is highly unlikely. More often than not, he’s going to need to stop-and-start, change directions, etc, to get to the hole, regardless of what position he plays. It’s the same at every position and with every player. If you want to get to the rack, defenses are going to make it as hard on you as possible, no matter what position you are playing and where you are standing on the court.
"We must always seek the truth in our opponents' error and the error in our own truth." - RN
No.
Sorry but it was known that Beasley was available going into the draft for any team that could absorb his contract. The Wolves could have made the deal in principle to take Beasley or to jump OKC’s gun to take Beasley, Cook and their late teens pick for nothing.
The Wolves knew this going into the draft took Wes.
Available to whom?
Knowing a player is available and knowing he is available to you and for what are two different things. Ex.; Melo’s available. But point taken.
Let me submit: There were questions about Beasley. I think there were questions about Love. Beasley was insurance for Love at four, Beas is insurance for Wes at three (or vice versa). This team is obviously not adverse to stacking players and at this stage can afford to.
Worst case scenario: all three guys work out, which I contend they will and you have a nice dilemma.
Still think Love’s breakout, and Beast’s success have had trickle down effect on Wes. But Im telling you he has the goods.
by Tangerine dream on Jan 31, 2011 10:43 AM CST up reply actions
Ummm
The night of the draft Michael Beasley was available to anyone willing to absorb his contract. As he was for the next two weeks until the Wolves were willing to do so. No first round pick etc.
Wes most definitely does not “have the goods”. The proof is in the pudding and he has been nothing short of terrible as a rookie. He might develop but it is a longshot
Correction
It will never happen. Wes will always be 3 years older.
If it wasn't for Jordan Farmar and that guy Kevin Love, I would've killed somebody!
I've never been on the bandwagon
and even I expected him to be a solid 14/4/3 guy (with about 44% and 34% shooting) with a block and a steal for good measure if he was given decent time. He’s not doing too much worse, but I Was one of the skeptical ones.
Whenever I'm about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing.
I'm kinda there too
I had modest expectations for Wes, and so far he’s fallen short of even those. That said, Cousins is well short of what I thought he’d be, too, so Wes is backing toward my support. Cousins has had two straight solid games, but from what I saw of the highlights, his shot selection in those was pretty iffy. It’s entirely possible to have a few extra lucky makes swing your line from ok to great, which may have been what happened. With Cousins’ attitude and the fit issues he would have had here, it’s hard for me to see him shooting .433 with 3.7 turnovers/36 minutes and still say I’m totally behind him. (The fouls are bad too, but they are to be expected.) I’d still take him knowing what I know now if there were a redraft, but the gap has narrowed.
If it wasn't for Jordan Farmar and that guy Kevin Love, I would've killed somebody!
Does it change your mind about Cousins
if you know that he did what he’s done in the past few days, yet only played his first game of organized basketball seven years ago? Who are the 20 year old big men who have put up those kind of numbers with little more than players like Evans around him, against the defending champs, and then went back out and did the same thing against a certain playoff team that is one of the best at defense in the league?
Kevin Love is not the problem.
I think there's a good-to-decent chance
that The Emergence of DeMarcus Cousins As A Star NBA Big Man is about to take place.
No one denies the talent
The Wolves didn’t pass on the player, they passed on the person. He’s going to have great games, but you won’t really know if the decision was right or wrong for a couple of years. And maybe if this were a veteran team it might be different. I thinkenid impact on a young lockerroom was also a consideration. Time will tell.
by Tangerine dream on Jan 31, 2011 12:23 PM CST up reply actions
I'd still take Cousins
the Rubio/Cousins pnr would be fun to watch. Both of them are top-end talent (or… supposedly top-end talent) at running the PnR.
If I had to predict Cousins’ statline for his rookie year 3 months ago, I think I would have said something around: 18/10/2 with 1.5 combined blocks and steals and 54% shooting. Now to see what he is doing….
Given decent time, he has 18.5/10.6/2.5/1/1, BUT he’s only shooting 43.3%, which lowers his value drastically. I obviously expect that to improve, but it’s still concerning that a big who made a living off efficiency in college is having so much trouble connecting. It’ll come, but he’s gotten the stats I expected, just not quite how I thought he would.
Whenever I'm about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing.
Hm
I understand the frustration, failed expectations, the need to be realistic and all, nonetheless seeing Wolves get (mostly) ripped apart in comments even after a comfortable win, it just doesn’t seem right…
by Scott Richard Miller on Jan 30, 2011 7:15 PM CST reply actions 4 recs

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