At least they played hard
by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 9, 2011 9:38 PM CST
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PrintOK, what I am about to write should serve as something as a litmus test for how you view this squad: If they would have played with this much energy on their home stand, they would have won 2-3 more games.
I suppose that's a good thing. It's always nice to see the good guys come out with effort and grit, but it's also a reminder of just how lifeless they were in front of paying home fans.
I think the recent high-energy play can be traced back to the insertion of Corey Brewer into the starting rotation, beginning in the 2nd half of the Blazer game after Wes Johnson decided it would be peachy keen to let Wes Matthews do whatever he wanted to beyond the arc. Brewer came out at the half and, aside from mugging Matthews throughout the 2nd half, interjected a boatload of energy into the proceedings. Because of this 1/2 of hustle, Brewer was inserted into the starting lineup against the Spurs.
Yes, we're now lauding a 9 win team that has proved nothing for doing things that are pretty much expected at the professional level. Silver linings, I suppose.
Also, with Wes sent to the bench because of a lack of aggressiveness (which really doesn't inspire a whole lot of confidence in the guy if you know anything about the rest of his game), the Wolves have now made 3 top-6 picks in the last 2 years with no starting players to show for it. That's crippling. Absolutely crippling. Forget the Ebi picks at the end of the first round. Lotto picks are how you build your franchise and you need to get, at the very least, guys who can start if you want to succeed.
With the game not being shown on local TV, I went with the running game wrap format. It's below the fold.
Tonight’s game features Corey Brewer in the starting lineup. The souped-up Brewer has been replaced by an actual Brewer. Good times.
Sean Elliot is already grating on me. In between casual references to how awful the Wolves are, he pitches the "IT’S A TRAP" meme.
I know it’s early, but Darko Jabar is nowhere to be found.
Perhaps it’s just one of the perks of following a bottom-dwelling squad, but I don’t think good teams have to wade through this much condescension from opposing announcing duos as the Wolves and their fans. Some guys do it well, Sean Elliot does not do it well. He’s not as bombastic as Tommy Heinsohn and he’s not as ill-prepared as Stacy King--he’s more of a Voltron combo of the most annoying characteristics of every rube announcer in the league, thus proving that even the Spurs’ homers are robotic and boring. Although, it is kind of entertaining to listen to Elliot complain about the opposition getting away with 3 second calls.
Spurs announcers now referring to Darko Jabar’s "tent factory". Marveling at the fact that the refs have "learned how to count". Elliot follows up on the next possession with a bitter "How about reading the scouting report?" after the Wolves fail to close out on a Matt Bonner 3. Swill. Absolute swill.
Wolves are absolutely terrible at defending any off-the-ball action below the free throw line. Princeton cuts, baseline-running, side-to-side pick and roll...it’s all bad. They just seem to get locked in on the ball and it’s not just the Syracuse guys.
The Spurs announcers have now moved on to talking about the weight of the Wolves players. Will they make it around to their mothers by half time?
Things I’m learning about the Wolves from Sean Elliott:
1- They’re fat
2- They’re stupid
3- They smell
4- East coast media is biased to the Knicks and Celtics and no one cares about flyover country...like San Antonio.
5- They’re bad in the ½ court
6- They’re bad in transition
7- They’re bad on defense
8- They don’t read scouting reports
Sean Elliott is now complaining about how uppity east coast media types don’t take the time to really learn a lot about the Spurs.
Supper time. Switching to radio.
Apparently I missed Sean Elliott saying "I like the relentless penetration." The 13 year old in me is pissed.
It is entirely possible that the Spurs will take 20 3s in the 2nd half. They seemingly can get an open look from way beyond whenever they want to.
Beasley has retweaked his ankle. Wes and Brewer are the duo at the ⅔ right now.
Darko seems to play well against the Spurs. Seeing that Darko has a fragile mindset, I think it is in the best interests of the club to identify as many "Good Darko" indicators as possible and recreate them as best they can:
1- Larry Brown is in the building and coaching for the opposition.
2- Sean Elliot is commenting about his weight.
3- Within 10 miles of an HEB.
4- When David Kahn rubs his belly juuusssst right during the pregame warmups.
5- When he catches an episode of Dexter that really hits home. (Imaging that The Code of Rambis is as worthwhile as the Code of Harry.)
Am I missing anything?
Love has now gone to the bench after tweaking his knee. Is Luke Ridnour the only guy out there who can create his own shot? Thankfully, Love is back in the game. It’s amazing to me that Bassy hasn’t had any burn lately.
Things that are competing with my Wolves time tonight:
1- Taking down the Christmas tree.
2- Not wanting to watch Jonny Flynn
Random pet peeve about the NBA: Watching multi-millionaires wear Dr. Dre Beats headphones. They’re called Grados people. Seriously, show some taste.
Anthony Tolliver is fantastic. Hustle, grit, smarts, and good play. Plus, he’s from Creighton.
The Wolves are continuing their season-long tradition of letting a so-so wing player torch them from beyond the arc. Gary Neal, tonight’s your night. We really should start a game show called Who Wants to Torch the Wolves from 3.
Sean Elliott has been switched out for NPR. Sorry folks. I just couldn’t do it anymore.
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I've discovered the Zen of Wolves fandom
It’s not wins or losses, but endurance that counts.
Breaking down cognitive dissonance and group think since gasoline was cheap.
Brewer starting to get some respect from officials
I agree, he definitely was physical (as much as Corey can be physical) with Wes and Manu. I love that the refs didn’t fall all over themselves blowing the whistle every time Manu went into one of his overdramatic flails upon the slightest hint of contact.
Darko Jabar or
Jar Jar Binks?
Breaking down cognitive dissonance and group think since gasoline was cheap.
Wes Johnson
Well I am not a big believer in Wes’ rookie season, I think there is a NBA starter in there though so I think it’s a little quick to judge that.
However, it sucks because the Wolves didn’t know they would get Beasley at the time of the draft. I think a lot would change if they would have goten Beasley before the draft. I supported the pick of Johnson initial, now I wish they had gone in a different direction. But I look at basketball players like I look at the Vikings situation at QB. Just get as many talented players as possible and let the best ones play. We drafted Wes if he can’t beat Beasley out, or whomever at the 2 then he needs to sit, but competition never hurt anyone either
I like Wes off the bench at least for now
He came into the game averaging under 8 shots a game (I think we can all agree that is too few). He took 13 this game, almost twice as much! Although he did not shoot at a high clip from what I saw they were mostly good looks. He also played about the same minutes (which may have been different with Beas in). I think getting him more shots and not asking so much on D should help him get better and put up better numbers.
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Jan 9, 2011 9:58 PM CST up reply actions
I like him off the bench too
it’s nice to get Brewers D in the starting 5, and Wes O in the second 5
But I agree with the author, it’d be nice to get more out of the no. 4 pick
I don't think it will be a super long term thing
I think it is to get the intensity up with Wes and the rest of the team. If he starts lighting it up again, and playing better D, he’ll be back in the starting five.
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Jan 9, 2011 10:06 PM CST up reply actions
I just don't think he's a 2 guard
That’s my real issue. When he can play the 3 he looks really comfortable but when he has to play next to Beasley and carry a greater ball handling load he doesn’t look quite so comfortable.
With Love and Beasley easily the two best players on the team and both very comfortable in the 3/4 positions Wes might just end up being Beasley’s career understudy.
I like Wes, but we need a real 2 guard
by Wolvesguy on Jan 9, 2011 10:08 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Allegedly in the Twolves offense the 2/3 are the same
I don’t want to pass judgement about him at the 2 until I see what he looks like with Rubio besides him. As for now he looks great as an off the bench designated shooter.
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Jan 9, 2011 10:18 PM CST up reply actions
If Beasley is the 3
We need a more sure handed handler at the 2 than Wes. I understand systematically it’s the same thing, but we need someone to handle to the rock. Rubio should take care of most of that, however another sure handed baller would be nice at the 2.
And also we might end up drafting Harrison Barnes and this would all be a mute point anyway
Wes as designated shooter
Is an incredible waste of talent. Watched him play 35 games last year and never would have projected that role. Probably best athetic on team. He should be getting 5-6 points from line every night and pulling down 7-8 boards. He can do that from the small forward position. He is a good shooter but not a pure shooter. Frustrating to see him pidgeon holed.
Find it amusing that so many criticize Flynn for too many flashy passes, can’t shoot and can’t play on the ball defense yet are clamoring for Rubio. That’s exactly his M.O. Like Flynn, Rubio will need a coaching style which fits his skill set. Neither is a half court point guard.
by Tangerine dream on Jan 9, 2011 10:48 PM CST up reply actions
It's not the flashy passes
As much as the bad passes.
"Pinch-bunters don't have a ton of value, even with the Twins"
by Steven Ellingson on Jan 9, 2011 11:15 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I can't think of another NBA player right now
That is more afraid of contact than Wes. His nickname should be Monk.
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 10, 2011 8:07 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Darko is pretty close
For a guy that spends nearly all of his time in and around the paint and gets lots of touches in our offense, he is almost as Monk-like as Wes Johnson. It’s really amazing how far things like motor and mentality can make a difference. Corey Brewer has terrible handles, yet his throw-caution-to-the-wind approach yields him a decent amount of free throws for such an inept offensive player.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 10, 2011 2:12 PM CST up reply actions
This is B.S.
Wes isn’t pigeon-holed at all by the coaching staff. He has pigeon-holed himself by the way he plays. There is so much more he could be doing off the ball to impact games. He has almost the ideal physique and athletic profile of an NBA wing. He should be getting more rebounds, more deflections, more dunks, and more free throws by simply putting his athleticism to better use. He’s just too damn passive.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 10, 2011 2:16 PM CST up reply actions
It sucks because they drafted a bench player or 5th starter....
…with the 4th pick in the draft .
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
www.canishoopus.com
It sucks but
Again, I feel like had we known we would get Michael Beasley we would have done something else with the pick?
Either way
Johnson was the 4th pick and whether they landed Beasley or not, he was still a very easily identifiable type of college player.
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
www.canishoopus.com
That's not my point
My point is, put Beasley on this squad before the draft. Do we still draft Johnson? I would lean towards no, at that point I would almost bet they trade up to get Derrick Favors, cause that was the big steam. I can just understand why Khan didn’t do that at the time (Having Al and Kevin on roster technically). Like, if you just drafted the guy you want to start at small-forward for the next ten years, why would you draft a small forward?
I think Khan is a solid GM but yeah, gotta work the draft out a little bit. Basically for me Rubio is his Tavaris Jackson…if he pans out everything will be fine, if he doesn’t that will be the thing that makes me start to think we need a new sheriff in town
I read your post wrong
You understood what I was saying, my bad. However I still disagree the Wolves would have done that.
Oh no
I don’t follow the Vikes, but even I know a Rubio/T-Jack comparison isn’t a good thing. ;)
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
www.canishoopus.com
Only if he fails
Childress took a gamble on drafting TJack and he thought he could make him a franchise QB, so when TJack prooved Chilly wasted 4 years for the Vikings it was time to go
Rubio if he is as good as advertised I think will keep Khan’s job. If he’s not that will probably be what cans Khan imo
our team is totally different when darko gets up for the game
he must love playing against timmy for some reason. he played terrific defense all night. he was all over the court. i don’t know what the wolves can do to motivate him like this every game…on that note, pek seemed a little better tonight too. maybe a good serb eatery in san antonio?
tonight i remembered wayne ellington is on the team.
it’s too bad johnny flynn is a 1 and not a 2. wouldn’t mind seeing him on the floor with a guy like ginobili who can run the point sometimes.
it’s easy to see how the spurs (and other good teams) can win so many games. basically, everything has to go the other teams way to lose…and opponents aren’t going to get any help from the refs. there were sooooo many non-call travels by the spurs. when a guy like tony parker goes 1 on 3 on the break, he’s going to get points or the foul. when flynn/brewer/etc do it??? obviously they aren’t tony parker, but it’s just an example how it’s always going to be an uphill battle.
AT looked good. would have liked to have seen more bassy vs parker. brewer played aggressively like he should. we should just let him get his 6 fouls every game…as long as they aren’t dumb fouls. i bet he could offset those fouls with good plays and overall disorder for the opposing teams offense.
Was pleased with the effort tonight
I mean if a team is 20-2 at home and you are 2-19 on the road and you are playing the team that also has the most wins, we should lose. We didn’t blow this one we stayed close the whole game and did not end up being close enough. Rhambis made good decisions down the strech. I liked Luke’s three (he was hot tonight), I liked the decision with 35 left to play D and let the chips fall, and I thought the last play wasn’t perfect, but it was at least the right idea. It was great to see “Paul Bunyon” back. Much better than Koufos. You can read my above comment on what I thought about Wes. With Beas out a lot and KLove limping I thought we did our best. Luke was also solid.
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Jan 9, 2011 10:05 PM CST reply actions
At some point in the future...
hopefully we will look back on the time period from 2004 to 2012 and say “those were the worst of times” but for ticket prices and marketing promos “they were the best of times”. I’d love nothing better than to b____h about the price of tickets sometime and how hard it will be to to even obtain them against fellow playoff rival teams. I’d love to have to think hard about my calendar and know that a game crucial to our getting home court through the second round meant I would need to shuffle meetings and appointments.
And this year, just to keep our spirits up, I’d love to see Pek really put Manu on his arse, not once, but several times in a game we win without deserving to win!
"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't." - Anatole France
War and Peace...
…is my favorite book
by kiteman on Jan 9, 2011 10:55 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
"It was the best of times,
it was the worst of times…"
War and Peace, Tale of Two Cities? What’s the difference?
6 hard fouls
for Pek to use on Manu….that would be sweet! It would be the best 3 minutes of the season!
Going from Sean Elliot to NPR
Jeeeez, from bad to worse
by OdinFromValhalla on Jan 9, 2011 10:48 PM CST reply actions
Click, Clack, Moo is a good one
Who knew an intro to the labor movement could be so entertaining for kids? Less enriching books that my girls like: Sam’s Sandwich, Mr. Dizzy, and Moosetache.
by Madison Dan on Jan 9, 2011 11:11 PM CST via mobile reply actions
No shame
in losing in the final play to the best team (well… technically) in the league on their homecourt.
I know this will rankle some of the Brew-haters but I say give Brew-dog the starting position for the rest of the season. He shoots 36%/25% and still always seems to be in the plus every game and has the best on/off rating for what its worth. People forget that he shot over 40% from the three in the second half of last year and had a 33(?) game 3 point streak. At the end of last year I thought I even heard opposing announcers say that he was a three point threat. If he can regain that form he’s a legitimate starter, albeit on the lower end of the SG scale. But even if he doesn’t, I think he’s a great team player and when the rest of the starting lineup is as shot happy as Beasley, Ridnour, Love, and Darko we don’t even necessarily need an offensive superstar. It seems pretty clear from our stats that offensive production is not our biggest problem, but we are dead last in defense.
how did you feel about all of brewer's early shots tonight?
i think when he’s in the starting 5, he should be option 5. he gets his in transition and when the play breaks down.
According to Hoopdata
There are 101 SG/SF who have played more than 15 min/game this season. Those with a worse TS% than Corey: Dominic McGuire, Donte Green, Jamario Moon. He had 2 months last season when he shot over 40% from 3. For the rest of his career he has been a horrific offensive player. It’s possible that we don’t need a scorer at the 2, but Brewer hurts the team on the offensive end, and I’m not entirely thrilled about giving all his shots to Darko and Luke anyway. If Love was as bad on defense as Corey is on offense, I’d want him on the bench too. But somehow Corey’s putrid offense is acceptable to fans cause he’s such a hustle guy.
slugfest
For me, the defense is very important, because when the other teams start hitting their wide open 3’s, high-fiving and clowning us, they get confident and blow us out. (Think Rudy Fernandez). At least if Brewer’s in there, he makes them work, and the game becomes a much more painful, drawn out affair for them.
horrific?
that’s a little extreme. He shot 52%, 47%, and 46% from the field in his three year college career, and 43% (along with 35% from long range) despite an abysmal start last year and had similar stats in the month before he got injured. So, by career, you mean his rookie year?
I don’t think I ever said he was an offensive powerhouse, but he just needs to be adequate on that end in order to make his presence in the lineup worthwhile, and he’s shown that he has the potential to be adequate.
How does powerhoise enter into it
The data shows he is in the running for worst offensive wing in the league. Going back to the truehoop data set. even last year, when he had 2 good months of 3 point shooting he was in the bottom 10% of all wings in TS%. He was as far below the average for his position as, say Kevin Martin was above it. That’s how bad he is, inverse Kevin Martin bad. He has never sniffed adequate, and I don’t see how you could argue that he has.
As for his defensive efforts, while I like his energy, it is often misguided, and more importantly, I don’t see this team as being good enough to run out one or more one-dimensional players. We need guys who can contribute on both ends.
powerhouse
enters into it only insofar as I said Corey Brewer wasn’t an offensive one.
Going back to the truehoop data set. even last year, when he had 2 good months of 3 point shooting he was in the bottom 10% of all wings in TS%.
He was in the bottom 10% for the year or during his 33 game 3 point streak? I’d like to see a link to that stat.
He has never sniffed adequate
a pretty strong statement
and I don’t see how you could argue that he has
‘adequate’ college shooting percentages, 52%, 47%, and 46%, and last year’s ‘adequate’ second half and the ‘adequate’ 33 game and Wolves’ record 3 point shooting streak.
I’m even accepting the fact that he is and probably always will be a sub par offensive player compared to other SG’s. I am simply arguing that he has the tools to be ‘adequate’, a great transition guy, and in the half-court I envision him as a guy who can throw the defense off a little with his unpredictability and ideally a guy whose outside shot is just good enough that he keeps defenses honest, freeing up some room for the other four players to score. His outside shot has been terrible this year, but we said the same thing last year at this time and he had an ‘adequate’ second half shooting. I’d like to give him the environment where he has a chance to become that player.
More importantly, I argue that in order to get better the Wolves need to focus on defense. They’re decent offensively, but horrible defensively. According to the law of diminishing returns (insofar as it can be applied to basketball) a lot of energy would be required to improve their offense a little bit, to the level of say New York, and at what expense? Whereas a little improvement on the defensive end could theoretically see big returns. In this case switching Brewer for Johnson, defense for offense make a lot of sense because I think the other four players are decent to strong offensively and can make up for the loss of Johnson, whereas three of them are serious defensive liabilities and I think having Corey in there really fills in some of the gaps.
Part of this is gut feeling, but I was impressed with the way they played defense against San Antonio. They seemed to have pretty tight rotations, holding a team that averages 105 a game to 94, and it felt like Corey was a leading factor. He just goes nonstop and really disrupts the other team and gets in the star player’s face, and his attitude is infectious. The other players start playing better and the centers get into foul trouble That’s just my take.
The link
Showing that your take on his shooting last year does not jibe with the actual data: Go to Hoopdata already sorted for wings playing more than 20 games and more than 15 mpg (to weed out low sample size noise). Click TS% to sort for this stat, and go past the first two pages of 40 players, toward the bottom of the last page and find Corey’s 50.3% (which is by the way, by far the best of his career). So if his breakthrough season was that bad, and he has since regressed, how is it a strong statement to say he has never sniffed adequate? According to this Basketball Reference page, since 1990 there have only been 23 players to play as amny minutes as Corey has in his career with a TS% as low as his. There’s not a lot to hang your hat on with that list.
Yes, Corey may improve. Yes, the Wolves might benefit from his play at times. But no, there is no evidence anywhere aside from wishful thinking, that he has or will have enough of an offensive game to be considered adequate.
After thinking about it
I decided that that was a not the correct analysis to run. It rates Brewers achievements after 5000 or so minutes, but compares him only to guys who stayed at his poor shooting level for their careers. If it is possible for a guy like Brewer to improve, the correct analysis would be to look at guys who played a lot of minutes but who had a low TS% over their first 4 years, and see if the list contains names of players who went on to be decent contributors. This list shows the 19 players (since 1980 now) who played at least 5000 minutes over their first 4 seasons with a TS% of .475 or less.
I find it sad to see two current TWolves on that list. And some other MN draft picks/acquired players. But who is the Corey role model there? I’d guess Larry Hughes, maybe? A guy who didn’t shoot over 25% from 3 until his 4th season but still carved out a career as an unconscionable gunner?
Larry Hughes could handle the ball well enough to play some at the point.
His defense was also solid early on – not as frenetic as Corey’s, but more reliable.
Limited as Hughes may have been, he had at least one significant strength (handling) that in Corey is a bad weakness.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Yeah
can’t really compare them as players, but it’s a closer fit than Bobby Jackson or Donyell Marshall. The overall point is that it is extremely valid to describe Corey’s scoring as historically bad, when only 18 players in the past 30 years have started their careers with equally bad outputs and that amount of minutes to work the kinks out. And the names that are associated with that list don’t suggest that it’s an easy path from there toward scoring competency.
Donyell Marshall was a kind of antithesis to Corey in some ways.
Same position coming into the league, opposite strengths as young players, and totally mismatched with each other in terms of “motor.”
Donyell made a decent career of it. Ahem. Cough.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
This argument might get some momentum if Corey wasn't shooting worse this year than he did as a rookie.
At least he has his vaunted 24% three point shooting to fall back on.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Off topic but
is anyone’s Z key not working, apparently I have read every single comment on this board and there are no new comments listed anywhere. Does anyone have a similar problem.
Same here. Happened earlier as well
but SB Nation was down just before the game Sunday too. May have something to do with that. ZZZ.
"Humor is reason gone mad." Marx (Groucho, for the reason-gone-mad impaired)
yeah....
….there are some issues with sb nation right now. it crashed earlier in the evening, times are messed up, and it kept pulling this post off of the front page.
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
www.canishoopus.com
Dre Beats lol
I was with a friend in best buy and he was amazed at how good he thought they sounded and he really wanted a pair. I told him dude they are $200 of course they sound good. Any other pair of $200 headphones is going to sound amazing, this is nothing new.
Grado sr80is
are 99 bucks and sound better than the most expensive pair of dre beats. tell him to get a pair of those.
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
www.canishoopus.com
Good write-up
The only thing that I really disagree with is this comment:
the Wolves have now made 3 top-6 picks in the last 2 years with no starting players to show for itIt just seems excessively negative. Johnson is a rookie and Rubio hasn’t come over yet, so it’s a bit early to be closing the book on them.
That's the thing
S-N-P is literally correct in that statement; if you want to break it down word for word it is all true. But in my opinion it leaves out a lot of information and chooses to cast a very negative shadow on something that isn’t necessarily so.
I suppose it’s a half full / half empty kind of thing, but I feel like I am seeing a bit too much of it around here. What is the point if saying something like that when the chance that it is still going to be that way next year, or the year after is pretty slim.
Tonight's Game
I am in San Antonio for work and had the pleasure of going to this game. It was nice to see the Wolves put up a good effort throughout. However, the ending was all too familiar. Another poor inbounds play from Rambis that led to a horrible shot at the end of regulation.
If you’re in San Antonio I would definitely recommend seeing a game (if possible). Great fan experience. Plus it’s the only thing to do in town.
Well, I guess I will continue my personal campaign on this topic...
Another poor inbounds play from Rambis that led to a horrible shot at the end of regulation.
I have said it before, but teams that run perfect in-bounds plays, or plays out of timeouts, are championship teams. Even then, how many times have you seen the Lakers stall out on a set play only to result in a bad shot?
Point is, I don’t know how anyone has any clue what kind of plays Rambis is drawing up. If our young players could run plays as they are drawn, we would be in the playoffs.
I enjoyed the River Walk. Nice eating joints. I spent a few days there with a friend,
CT3 Lopez from ‘A’ school in Pensacola, in ’67. He let me date his (beautiful) sister. Those
were the days – and his mom could cook! Nice weekend before my flight to Germany.
"One good PG away from getting over the hump"
This was actually a pretty good result for a young team.
I’m guessing that, even had we won this game, there would be the ultra-negative game wrap with Kahn bashing, left and right.
The obvious take on Wes Johnson in this game was not that he’s lazy. It’s that Beasley’s injury let him play forward and he looked better in that position. That means two things:
1) It’s too bad that he plays the same position as Beasley. Had Kahn known he would be getting Beasley, and that Supercool Beas would look pretty good at the 3, he probably would have handled the draft differently.
2) Wes is a good player. His shooting stroke is top-notch and at the forward position he’s plenty capable of making strong moves with one or two dribbles. The challenge is finding him minutes at forward—starting Brewer is probably a good step in the right direction.
As for drafting starting players, Wes has started 33 games for this 9-win team. DeMarcus Cousins has started 18 games for his 8-win team (that fell by 6 to the Raptors, today—what kind of game wrap does that deserve?). Had he made it to the D-League, as he almost did, I suppose that number would be a little bit higher. Landry Fields has started all 35 of the Knicks games.
Wes...
….is exactly who we thought he was:
Wes Johnson: (120.5)- Wes Johnson is going to get a lot of mentions with Wolves fans but he has some fairly significant red flags. If he were drafted by the Wolves, he would start the season as a 23 year old swing man from Syracuse (hello zone!) who needs work on his handle. Midway through the season he went through a dry spell that reminded everyone of the player he was at Iowa State: a nice player but not someone to consider with a top 5 pick.
If you want to place bets about the starting prospects of Wes vs. DMC, I’ll take that bet. What kind of game wrap does DMC deserve against the Raps? He was their best player and he is showing flashes of play that are unimaginable for a player like Wes. Wes is an average player. An obviously average player.
Also, it’s not just that Beasley landed in Kahn’s lap after he took a 3. He traded for another 3 on the same damn day he picked up Wes. You’re exactly right there’s more ultra-negative Kahn bashing on the way. He’s running a 9 win team while blowing through an amazing amount of resources while the team’s up or down play hinges on whether or not Darko’s head is in the right spot. That’s a recipe for success, all right.
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http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/couside01/splits/2011/
http://dougstats.com/10-11/SacramentoKingsLF.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnswe01/splits/2011/
http://dougstats.com/10-11/MinnesotaT-wolvesLF.html
Last 10:
Pts:
DMC: 16
Wes: 9.1
FTA/G:
DMC: 4.2
Wes: .6
Reb:
DMC: 9.2
Wes: 2.1
DMC’s overall production, even after a terrible start, has caught up to Wes and then some. Both the Wolves and Kings are 3-7 in their last 10.
Zach Harper had the best tweet about DMC yesterday: For the next 2 years DMC will be the Kings’ problem. After that, he’ll be the league’s problem. I think that’s exactly right.
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Fact: DMC>Wes
I was pretty disappointed with that pick. Too me a the man with the highest ceiling should have been drafted regardless of attitude. When your team finishes with 15 wins it may be time for a gamble…but maybe that is just me, its not like there is a whole lot to lose, i mean 15 wins? But it is over now and the good news is Wes is at least better than terrible.
by Waucckhewww on Jan 10, 2011 10:37 AM CST up reply actions
Fine...a theory
;)
In the most scientific sense of the word.
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Here's the problem with DMC>Wes
The Kings are worse this year than they where last year, and really the only difference is DMC. The Wolves aren’t worse than they where last year, they might finish a few games better actually.
I would rather blow a pick on a guy that won’t be a head case than use a pick on a guy who could start, but will come with a fair amount of head aches and not make you better
Quick note: The Kings..
….were 14-17 in 2009. They were 17-63 in the 2010 calendar year. They had an amazing start to the 09 year and then they sucked at a level Wolves fans are quite familiar with. They started this year playing exactly like they did for the majority of last year.
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I hope you realize it isn't this simple
There’s a lot more that goes into team play and record than a single player. Wolves fans should know this better than anyone.
The Kings have seen significant declines in production from a few key players this year—Tyreke and Landry, in particular, have seen steep declines in scoring efficiency and hikes in turnover rates. To state it more generally—players’ individual performances vary from year to year—it’s not so simple as looking at whatever player was added or subtracted from the team and looking at the corresponding change in record.
by WolvesFan03 on Jan 10, 2011 12:19 PM CST up reply actions
Tyreke has a bad ankle, plus both he and DMC are head cases.
"One good PG away from getting over the hump"
When I see Westphal-DMC, it's not hard not to image Sprewell-Carlessimo
"One good PG away from getting over the hump"
When I think of Sprewell-PJ
it’s not hard to imagine the Wolves at crunch time: Serious choking.
"Humor is reason gone mad." Marx (Groucho, for the reason-gone-mad impaired)
Kahn deserves some bashing...
but last night’s game wasn’t really the time for it, that’s all.
As for who starts, two things:
1) You went the literal route with the comment about no starters in the past two lotteries. The literal route then should include that Wes has started in almost twice as many games as your preferred pick, Cousins. In yesterday’s action, he played a whopping 3 less minutes than DMC.
2) If the Kings had a center as good as Beasley, DMC would be coming off the bench, as well.
I watched a fair amount of that Kings game, and it wasn’t a great one for DMC. I saw turnovers, poor defense and stupid fouls. I also saw a few nice post moves and some very average athleticism. I saw a bricked three-point attempt. Down the road, DMC has a chance to become the next Zach Randolph. If he does, he’ll be a very good player. DeMarcus is exactly who we thought he was.
Again, some Kahn criticism is fair, but you just go way beyond that point, almost every time you write anything, these days. There are some bright spots, here, and no—they are not all McHale’s doing. I didn’t understand the tweets/comments about how McHale’s guys almost carried us to that win, yesterday. Darko had a double-double with 5 blocks, Ridnour was arguably our MVP for the game, and Tolliver/Webster/Johnson combined for 27 points in what was a balanced effort all around. Sometimes, you’re really reaching with these Kahn remarks. Even many of the posters here who wanted Cousins and Curry don’t go to these lengths to try to make a point that isn’t quite correct.
When you truly make a horrible draft-day trade, there is some degree of instant impact. The Blazers jumped from 21 to 32 wins after Roy-Foye. 41 the year after that. In Curry’s rookie year, the Warriors dropped from 29 to 26 wins. After getting healthier and signing an expensive All-Star, they are on a better pace, albeit still a losing one. The Kings won 25 last year and now are on pace for 19 wins. Those teams that acquired such “amazing resources” that Kahn blew through are in similarly dire situations, on the court.
I just think you’re going too far, and have been for a while. I am far from an optimist about this group of players, but I have liked enough of Kahn’s moves (Rubio, Beasley, Webster…) to have a mixed bag of emotions on the guy. His public comments are funny and sometimes maybe intentionally so, but I’ve never worried that it actually affects our team in any meaningful way. He’s pulled off more than one trade with opposing GM’s to suggest otherwise.
by Andy G on Jan 10, 2011 9:24 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I think he's taken the place hostage
And Stockholm Syndrome has set in with his remaining defenders. I am 100% convinced that the only reason people still defend the guy is because national media takes pot-shots at him and if I’ve learned anything about Minnesota sports over the years, it’s that people tend to get a bit defensive when the national folks go after One of Us. If this were happening on the Blazers or the Grizz, we’d all be laughing.
I’d argue that I don’t go far enough. This guy is burning down the franchise. Look at what is in front of them. They’ll get a top pick in one of the weakest drafts in recent memory and then Clippergeddon hits. Does anyone here honestly think that Kahn can find a good pick in a weak draft? The cap space will be used up on Beasley, Rubio, and hopefully Love. Maybe they’ll be able to rent out a Troy Murphy or a Rip Hamilton if they can get in on the last minute Melo action. Exciting.
Kahn inherited a team that won 24 games and he made it worse across the board. They’re lower on SRS, they’re equally bad on defense, and they’re worse offensively. He’s hired arguably the worst coach in team history and his draft record can already compete with McHale’s Greatest Hits. Meanwhile, Papa Glen won’t pull the trigger because the team is losing money hand over fist and Rambis has 2 more years on his deal and everybody over there thinks Laimbeer is too big of a prick to take over without additional headaches.
You make a comparison of DMC to Zach Randolph as if that’s somehow worse than whatever Wes comps out to…as the 4th pick in the draft! He’s Courtney Lee, at best.
I know I’m a bit grumpy and negative right now but I can’t shake the feeling that a large chunk of the remaining fanbase is soooooooo wanting to see this thing turn around that they are turning a blind eye to a complete disaster unfolding in real time and in plain view. There is a point of no return with this team and I think we’ve reached it with Peak Kahn. At some point, Love’s going to simply say “forget it”. At some point, Rubio will just demand a trade. I’ve been as optimistic as anybody about those two guys and I’m beginning to think they don’t have a future here because of the incompetence of the current crew.
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
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Just remember...
…it could always be worse:
Everything in the computer need my face on it. Mega Gigabytes, son!
Here's a head scratcher
Would you trade the Wolves for the Clips if it meant having to take Sterling instead of Taylor? I don’t think I would.
Also, for some positives: Kevin Love is really, really good at basketball. Ricky Rubio is really, really good at basketball. Anthony Tolliver will be my favorite player by the end of the year (Go Bluejays!). Mike Beasley will improve on defense and be good scorer.
Here’s the less-heated problem I have with the team: Kahn took over this team and said that he wanted to build a championship quality contender. Fine. He then went out and said that Al Jefferson wasn’t anything more than a 2nd option, possibly a 3rd. He then proceeded to blow the team up.
My problem is that anything more than Al Jefferson is amazingly hard to find. Hell, Al Jeffersons are hard to find. You have to hold on to what you have and roll with the punches. This guy will continue to shuffle the chairs on the deck as the ship sinks. Hard work doesn’t land A1 championship options. Cap space doesn’t land A1 championship options unless you’re a Super Friend destination. They probably could have had everything they have now + Jefferson. Throw out all of the other stuff I think about Kahn and that’s the one point that I think bugs me the most. The idea that you can work hard for a championship team while….well, I get it…I’m a broken record at this point. Just like the team.
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
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Al Jefferson 16 ppg 8 rpg and no defense?
Where’s the brother going to play man? He’s not better than Kevin Love and plays less defense.
This is one angle I wish...
….I could completely erase from Wolves fandom: Stop worrying about the flaws of your favorite 15 win team’s best players. No mas. Al Jefferson and Kevin Love are arguably top 5 players in the team’s history. I don’t doubt that Beasley could be added to this list in 2 years. They are not the problem. This team’s problem has always been a complete inability of the front office to surround players who matter with guys who can make it all click. It was really bad after the WCF:
The problem for KG is not his game, but his teammates. In 2002-03 Garnett produced 31.5 wins. The rest of his team produced 15.1. The next season Garnett produced 30.5 wins while the rest of the T-Wolves produced 25.3 victories. The increased productivity of his teammates allowed the writers to notice Garnett and give him the league MVP award.
In 2004-05, as we note in the book, Garnett was essentially the same player who won the MVP. He produced 30 wins, but his teammates only produced 14.8 victories. This past season, just to make life even less fun, his teammates only produced 9.4 wins. So over the past four seasons, Garnett’s teammates have averaged 16.1 wins per year. Although Garnett is averaging close to 30 wins per season, it is not enough to overcome the performance of his co-workers.
This season, Kevin Love is playing the role of the guy who is mostly responsible for anything good happening on the court.
Anywho, I think we just need to step back and stop worrying about the flaws of the best players that a bad franchise is able to get their hands on. Our concerns, I think, should be focused on the coaching to make up for those flaws and the front office actions that will surround them with a good supporting cast.
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
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It just takes time
It’s a patience game my friend.
OKC won what? 21 games the first year with Durant and Westbrook? It takes time.
Maybe we need a new coach, I can’t say I’m there yet. But the first year of Love and Beasley might take a while to get over the hump
Patience?
Sorry. I don’t think that card plays well with me. I’ve had nothing but patience for this franchise.
As for the OKC bit, I will take the bet right now that the Wolves have no one on their roster to compare to those two players. Durant is an A+ player. Westbrook is probably top 5 at his position. That is why they’re good. The Wolves simply don’t have the guns to compete or grow like OKC did.
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Beasley
Beasley has the talent, no question. He’s putting it all together right now, and some games it there some games its not
Patience pt 2
Right, but how much of that dates back to Mchale. Khan has to have more than 1 1/2 years of patience. Gm’s job is to build a team and that takes time. He’s already made the best trade in franchise history
Kahn doesn't have to have s$*t
He was handed a 24 win team with 2 above average players, draft picks, and cap space. I think people like to fantasize about what Kahn has done with this team in terms of improving what was already there. They were already clearing cap space. BabHoiCock were setting this franchise up to head down the same route as Kahn: cap space + more draft picks. The only difference is that Kahn swapped out Jefferson for Beasley. Otherwise, he’s dealing with a hand that shouldn’t be considered any different than what was here before.
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He's talented...
….but he’s not KD. There simply aren’t that many guys out there who can score like that. Beasley is not one of them, and I think he can be a really good player (Melo Lite). Beasley has talent, but not the talent. OKC has a player that will probably be a top 5 player of the decade. Beasley isn’t in that league.
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
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Correct.
I still think Beasley’s potential offensively at least is virtually unlimited, however I don’t seem him getting as good as KD. I could see him being in “the conversation” for top 10 of the next decade though if he continues to improve like he has been
But he hasn't really improved that much....
He’s been given more of an opportunity to score and create, but the net outcome is that his production and efficiency isn’t all that dramatically better.
Once he starts getting to the free throw line 8 or 9 times a game, I’ll be convinced that he’s taken a major step forward in improvement. Until then, he’s a volume scorer that can get it going on some nights.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 10, 2011 11:31 AM CST up reply actions
It's not unlimited and he's probably near full capacity
We know where he gets his points what he needs to do to get them. His usage has gone up and he’s hitting a very high percentage from mid-range. There’s not a lot of “up” there. Free throws are his only untapped frontier in terms of places where he could improve…outside of just getting smarter in picking his spots, which is just court savvy.
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Continued
Beasley right now is a guy who can score 30+ on any given night but still have the brain far sub 15 game.
I think he can get it too the point where he is 35
+ plus on any given night and his bad games are lik 17/18. He can score 25 ppg next year I believe, gotta work on a few things but that’s basketball
Beasley is a 21.3 ppg scorer right now
Which is 0.1 more than Kevin Love. Beasley has taken 650 shots for his 765 points. Kevin Love has taken 577.
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..for his 804.
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Good point.
Love is scoring 1 fewer point on almost 3.5 less shots.
Beasley has to become quite a bit more efficient if he’s going to be able to give us a “good” 25ppg.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.cgi?id=4D1NH
free throws...
…really, really, really matter.
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That might even be the biggest difference between Durant and Beasley
Their FG percentages aren’t too different, they’re both average-to-good 3pt shooters, and Durant only takes one more shot per game than Beasley does. Their non-FT shooting stats aren’t significantly different.
The biggest significant difference in their scoring is that Durant has taken 5 more foul shots per game this year, and is shooting a full 15 percent better when he gets there. That’s huge. I doubt Beasley will ever shoot close to 90 percent from the line, but if he gets closer to the 80 percent benchmark and gets to the line once or twice more a game, that’s a few easy extra points tagged on.
Beasley
is not even close to either of those guys and it’s not like he is a rookie. By Durant and Westbrook’s 3rd year, they formed a much stronger tandem than Love and Beasley. I think Love is pretty much at his peak – I mean, how much better can he get with his physical tools – and Beasley is may be one or two years away from his peak as he figures out how to play on the wing. But I doubt that combination is ever as prolific as Durant and Westbrook.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 10, 2011 11:27 AM CST up reply actions
Miami screwed Beast up
Miami is a place where wing players went to die before. Look at Lebron, he and Wade play better when the other is off the floor.
Beasley was asked to sit in the corner and shoot Verajo-esque 18 footers and wait for the ball to come to him. That is not his game, the Heat hampered his growth as a player. He’s slow on the curve, but that happens sometimes to these guys.
I just find it no coincidence that when Beasley gets on a team where he is asked to be the offensive leader and play the 3 that he starts scoring
Talent shines through usually
It’s not like he was buried on the bench in Miami and never given a chance to make an impact. There is more than enough room for two dynamic scorers to co-exist together on a squad. The only difference now is he’s being given more opportunities to score. OK, great. But he is still mediocre in terms of efficiency, he struggles to make plays for others, and he turns the ball over too much. Will he improve? Yes, I hope so. Will he become a Top 10 NBA player. I seriously doubt it.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 10, 2011 11:35 AM CST up reply actions
I think his passing is already improving...
he was off to a great start in that department, before he rolled his ankle, last night. His +8 helps reflect how well he started that game.
One thing I struggle with is watching lefties… I can’t tell if Beasley has a weak right hand or if it’s just that he’s left-handed which makes him look different. Darko is clearly a one-handed player. I have a harder time telling with Beas.
But realistically
how much more can he improve? He’s not going to suddenly average 5 assists per game. I think ‘Melo light is the best case scenario: High-volume scorer, mediocre efficiency, OK passer, improved defense as he ages. Is that someone we want to keep? Absolutely, but we’ll have to overpay to keep him since he’ll command Rudy Gay money.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 10, 2011 11:47 AM CST up reply actions
Good question...
Here he is with third-year Melo and Dirk.
I’d say he has less experience than those guys by their third year in being “the man.” Those free throws are something to work on, for sure.
I debated putting Dirk in the Melo-Lite post
And ultimately the thing that really made me decide against it was that Dirk is less of a volume player than Melo or Beasley. Look at his usage rate. Then look at his rebounding, assist, and to percentages. Then look at his TS%. He was able to really, really produce with a much lower usage rate at this point in his career, suggesting more efficiency than what Melo and Beasley’s games appear to be built around: raw volume scoring built around the threat of a mid-range jumper.
Either way, it’s a tough way to make a living in the NBA like these guys do. There aren’t too many guys who can score with that type of arsenal.
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
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Beas fits between those guys...
in a few different ways. Rebounding, usage, and position, to name 3. He’s kind of a 3-4 combo, whereas the others are a 3 and a 4. What sticks out to me is that Beasley is hitting almost 44 percent of 3’s. I doubt that will remain, but even 38-40 percent for a player of his type is very good.
Also, he’s had a few games where his minutes were cut really short due to injury. Miami and the last SAS game, and part of the Portland game, come to mind. He could have closer to 23 PPG if not for some fluky games in there.
Free throws
Are going to end up being a problem if he can’t start to draw them. Just look at the numbers I put up above about Love’s scoring vs. Beasley. Check out here too:
http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Michael%20Beasley
Amazingly, it looks like he can maintain a near 45% rate from 16-23 and a good clip from beyond the arc. Look at how his assisted plays from 16-23 have dropped while him being able to maintain his %. In other words, he’s able to keep up the high percentage in iso situations. He needs to get to the line. Otherwise, I think this is as good as he can be as a scorer. He might up his usage for a few extra points but that won’t be a good thing unless he can become more efficient. He and Wes need to take a “get to the line” clinic.
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Yup
Tough to see how Beas can improve his efficiency much further without getting to the free throw line more. He’s kind of at that max threshold in terms of shooting % on long jumpers. It’s just really, really tough to improve and sustain anything beyond the low to mid 40s % from that range, especially when it’s usually with a hand in your face.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 10, 2011 1:51 PM CST up reply actions
But you have to admit
as I think you have previously, that you yourself advocated trading Jefferson, in that it opened up space for Kevin Love and unloaded what had become a guy that became more expensive than his post-injury production justified. In hindsight, I think you’ve come around to the fact that we just need to accumulate productive basketball players, and if you have one that produces at an above average rate, you keep him and just make it work.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 10, 2011 11:22 AM CST up reply actions
I did advocate it
And I was completely wrong. You can’t get rid of above average players. If you do, it’s nothing but diminishing returns. Never trade top picks and never trade above average players. I’m adding that to my Fantasy GM Code of Harry.
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I'm fine with trading above average players
so long as you get one back. Had we turned Jefferson into Iguodala for example (which theoretically could still happen I guess), then suddenly we get an asset back at about the same cost but who is a better fit on our squad.
I think your broader point here is that Kahn has had a warchest of assets to work with and the return on investment has been a pittance.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 10, 2011 11:43 AM CST up reply actions
Here's where you lose me a little bit:
I think you’ve said all of these things in this thread:
1. Never trade top picks.
2. The Wolves probably couldn’t have handled Cousins.
3. Wes was obviously average and a bad use of the #4 pick.
So what do you think should Kahn have done at #4 in what looks like a weak draft?
Is it still Cousins for you, and the Wolves should have just taken their chances that they’d be able to make it work? (I think that’s a perfectly defensible position, I’m just not sure what your position is when you say that the Wolves probably couldn’t have handled him).
I think you get the best players you can and roll with the punches
That’s rule #1 with the Fantasy GM Code of Harry. I would have taken Cousins regardless of his issues. My comment about the Wolves is more of a lay-of-the-land take on how I think Rambis’ head would have exploded and they are fragile enough as it is.
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I haven't read the rest of the thread
so maybe you answered but how do you play Al Jeff, Love and DMC on the same team? According to you and your rules this is what should have happened. Would that have even been possible without pissing somebody off?
I've thought about this too
It’s kind of like Schrodinger’s Cat. I’m not sure it can be answered. Flynn could or could not exist in this scenario and we’ll never know how the 09 pick would have played itself out on the 10 lotto chances. That being said, assuming the cat is alive (Flynn is there and the Wolves maintain their 4th pick) I think they could have split the minutes at the 4/5 between the 3 of them and made it work in theory. That’s still 96 minutes to dole out.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
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I don't think the minutes crunch applies to Cousins
He only needs 25 minutes of burn to have a huge impact on the outcome of the game.
Plus he fouls a lot and gets gassed easily.
I remember when I used to describe Greg Oden that way. tear
(Sorry about Oden, man.)
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
I doesn't hurt as much as it used to
Now that LaMarcus Aldridge’s testicles have finally descended.
by BlazerTag on Jan 10, 2011 5:04 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Finally...
…or fully? I think it’s an important distinction when discussing testicle descension.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
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I think perhaps the Left one dropped
A few years after the right.
While you’re here, I have another theory about Cousins’s improved play…
The NBA season is front-loaded with games
Cousins is not the best-conditioned athlete in the NBA. I remember him sucking wind and sucking on the court for the last couple of Summer League games he played in after killing it the first couple. He just isn’t in great shape.
I think Cousins’s play will improve as the season wears on and the NBA goes from four and five game weeks to three and four game weeks, not to mention less back-to-backs.
His persistent foul trouble kept him from any sort of consistancy but a lot of those fouls were of the too-tired-and-lazy-to-move-his-feet variety. He can be a quick and active defender when he’s not huffing and puffing.
I see him coming out in a big way the second half of the season and if he ever plays on a team that actually makes the playoffs, look out! There are plenty of chances to catch your wind playing a whopping two games a week.
I think this kid is built to win late season games.
the only reason they should have taken Cousins...
is to have traded him later since his value would be higher than Wes.
I’ll give you that.
I just don’t think the draft was very helpful to the Wolves no matter where they picked. Small Forward/Powerforward loaded. Cousins himself isn’t really even a center
I agree with feral
In that if you are set against taking DMC, then trade down a couple spots and gain extra assets if possible. Wes is a solid player, and isn’t necessarily a bad pick. But I think (and thought) that Monroe, Henry, and Aminu were all solid targets with more upside than Wes. I don’t consider their downside much more of a gamble anyhow. Though if one considers Wes the safer bet and that’s what one is going for, then I guess he is the pick there.
Yeah, that's why I included #1 on the list.
Trading down was something to consider. I wonder when Kahn knew he’d be able to get Webster? I’d guess that he knew it when he picked Wes, in which case there shouldn’t have been any urgency to get a wing who could shoot with that pick.
That said, I always think it’s hard to evaluate trade scenarios, because I don’t know what was on the table. The draft is easier that way — you can see the opportunity cost of the pick by just looking down a list of names.
However
Where the hell would Al play or where the hell would Love play?
And Kevin and Beasley wouldn’t ever touch the ball cause Al doesn’t pass
I think getting rid of Al was the best thing for this team long term. We may be sacrificing 5-6 wins now, but I think long-term its for the best.
And Al isn’t even playing all that well for the Jazz. 16/8 is fairly pedestrian
I didn't like the Jefferson trade...
and as you know, I’ll remind his critics of how the Jazz are doing compared to the Timberwolves, from time to time. Clearly, Jefferson can be an important piece of a winning team. Like 99 percent of the league, he just needs some top-flight talent around him.
Also, when you factor in the Jefferson trade, that hadn’t happened yet, there is more ammo for the Wes Johnson pick. Two of my reasons for preferring Johnson to Cousins were that Cousins was redundant with Jefferson and that we needed perimeter shooting and generally-better wing play. With Beasley, the wing issue was solved, and without Jefferson, we need better post scoring. So, I understand that frustration. If the draft were held today, Cousins is definitely a better fit than he was in June. But, he’s also shown off his incredible immaturity in the early going, so it’ll be years before that pick can really be evaluated. His team is worse than Minnesota, which says something too.
Michael Beasley is here because of David Kahn. He might quickly become the franchise’s most prolific scorer in history. So, there is that.
I want the franchise to get turned around, but I’m not turning a blind eye to anything. That should be clear by some of the writing I’ve done, this year. But, you seem to be doing a few things, all of which are taking the extreme stance against Kahn:
- Bashing Wes Johnson
- Exaggerating DeMarcus Cousins’ performance, when he plays for the league’s worst team and has been reprimanded more than once for behavior issues, and nearly sent to the D-League
- Minimizing, if not downright refusing to give any credit to Kahn for landing Michael Beasley
- Frequently writing that Kevin Love will be gone, soon
- Pretending that Ricky Rubio doesn’t exist
- Playing up the late-game collapses, rather than acknowledging that this team is far-more competitive than what we had last year, which is an obvious sign of improvement — even if it’s less improvement that we would like
Putting all of those stances together, I think you’re over-the-top against Kahn. He takes all of the blame and gets none of the credit. Even if it’s a net-negative, I’d like to think he’s somewhere between horrible and great. He took over a bad team that had some expensive and (sort of) aging pieces and turned them into a young team with no expensive pieces that has shown improvement, albeit slower than we’d like.
by Andy G on Jan 10, 2011 11:30 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
What credit?
Seriously. He is the pilot of a 9 win team that has 24 wins since he took over. There are 10 teams in the league right now, before the 1/2 way mark, with more wins. Awful. What we know about his view of player selection is comical.
As for the talking points. I think I’ve been remarkably level with Cousins. I’ve repeatedly said he’ll have ups and downs, that it’s a roller coaster, and that the Wolves probably couldn’t have handled him. I’m really exaggerating his performance by pointing out that he has a sub-average PER. Pointing out that he’s on a bit of a (relative) tear lately isn’t going nuts. He’s definitely had issues and he’s definitely shown flashes that hint at a type of play above and beyond anything Wes could possibly hope for.
Credit for Beasley:
http://www.canishoopus.com/2010/7/9/1560877/be-easy-mike-beasley
How have I pretended that Rubio doesn’t exist? Good lord.
Playing up late game collapses? This team is perfecting the art of the late game collapse. It’s probably the biggest in-game theme of the year and you don’t think I should play it up? You think that the take-away from something that obvious is to say “at least they’re closer”? I couldn’t disagree more with that point. Also, when you go back and look at what happened in 08, what do you think the team’s point differential was after 40 games?
It’s -5.9 right now. Don’t people remember how Randy Wittman had this team playing somewhat competitive ball before it fell apart in December? Don’t people realize that Witt’s early December blow out factory has a friend in the number of big losses this year? They’ve been blowing leads for years now. Kahn has taken over a bad team and kept it bad. At the very best, he’s kept it on a treadmill to nowhere.
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
www.canishoopus.com
The team in late 08/early 09...
is not the one that Kahn inherited. Al Jefferson was playing at an All-Star level before he went down. After that, the team was 7-25 in what was a fairly competitive tanking season. Big Al was not good last year.
Credit:
- Are you happy that we hold the rights to Rubio? Even with the two-plus year wait, I am. If your answer is yes, then David Kahn deserves credit for that.
- Are you happy that we have Michael Beasley instead of a pair of second-round picks? I think everybody is. He gets credit for that.
- Would you rather we squander leads in late-game situations, or that we do what the Gophers did yesterday and make a one-sided game look more competitive than it actually was? Neither is ideal, but leading against a good team, late in the game, is impressive for the youngest team in the league.
As for Cousins, I’ll just quote something in this thread that is, without any doubt, exaggeration:
He was their best player and he is showing flashes of play that are unimaginable for a player like Wes.
Carl Landry and Jason Thompson were clearly better than Cousins, in that game. Udrih probably, too. Cousins can’t defend a pick and roll to save his life, he turns the ball over and makes stupid fouls. His “flashes” are pretty simple post moves that even Kevin Love can make, albeit against a smaller forward. Cousins was okay — he put up some points and rebounds with all of those mistakes, but it was nothing to get excited about. When Wes makes a smooth reverse layup or a couple of three pointers, I suppose those are unimaginable for a player like Cousins. Or, when Wes takes some criticism from a coach by listening and nodding his head, I suppose that is unimaginable for a player like Cousins. The Cousins thing just isn’t a blunder of Kahn’s, not yet, at least. You obviously want it to be, and you’re forcing a point that isn’t supported by much.
I encourage you to fan post
Your Cousins take over here:
http://www.sactownroyalty.com/
Here’s their latest weekly wrap up post on the team:
Player of the Week:
DeMarcus Cousins
24 PPG, .568 FG%, 7 RPG, 3.3 APG, 1 STL, .7 BLK
2011 has been great for DeMarcus so far, as he’s slowly but steadily found his groove and seems to be a lot more controlled and patient on offense. Against Phoenix, he literally carried the team to victory, scoring 13 points in the crucial 4th quarter, leading the Kings on a 19-2 run to end the game. DeMarcus doesn’t just score though, he does the little things well too. On defense he has active feet and hands, and has a knack for drawing charges as well (a much more valuable defensive play than blocking shots, as you get a foul on the other player and guaranteed the ball back). On offense he is able to read the situation very well, especially finding the open man when he is doubled, which is happening more and more often as he continues to dominate. DeMarcus will still have many more growing pains before he realizes his potential, and we’ll likely endure some more stories that he’s a problem before all is said and done, but I don’t care. I’m just glad he’s on our team, he’s a joy to watch when he’s playing well. And when he and Reke have been playing well together like they were this week? Even better.
I don’t know what you’re going for with him not knowing how to defend a pick and roll. The guy showed more correct hedges in the 4th quarter yesterday than a year’s worth of Wolves big men….although, that may be a problem of relativity more than anything else.
As for me rooting for the Cousins thing to be a blunder, come on. I want this team to win and be the best it can be. At least give me that. I think I’ve at least earned that benefit of the doubt by now. The problem as I see it is that I think it is unavoidable that it will be a blunder on par with Roy/Foye and I don’t think I’ll have to look too hard to find support of this argument before too long.
Of course David Kahn deserves credit for Rubio. However, what GM in his right mind would have passed over the kid with 2 straight first round picks? He deserves credit for Beasley. I wrote an entire post about how Beasley is a fantastic pick up and even kicked off the Melo-Lite barrage.
Here’s how the Wolves have found themselves in late game situations this year: Gopher-esque early game collapses (Charlotte was the most recent example) that force them to claw back or playing against teams that sleep walk through the first 1/2 or 3/4 of the game and then turn it on when they want to.
Also, does an All Star level Al Jefferson + Kevin Love > Beasley + Kevin Love? They’re a Ramones song. 2nd verse…
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
www.canishoopus.com
I'm not really in the business....
of visiting other SBN sites to trash on their players. I watched Joey Dorsey score an uncontested layup when Cousins couldn’t recover in time on a ball-screen. That signaled to me that he’s not the best PnR defender. Maybe he picked it up in the 4th.
Also, I don’t necessarily take a Kings blog as great evidence that their young guy is something special. You could pick up certain chunks of text here that have been written about Love, Jefferson or the rest that would be wildly inaccurate and the result of the excitement or anger after a particular performance.
I am really surprised if you think Johnson-Cousins will be Foye/Roy, 2.0. Roy’s impact was felt immediately. Cousins isn’t having any effect on the Kings success, yet. His biggest contribution, cited there above, was a bigtime 4th Quarter against the weak front line of the Suns. Johnson’s big second half against New Orleans should have had you excited about his possibilities, as well.
I’m not sure between Love-Jefferson and Beasley-Love, but I will say that I’d rather have Beasley-Love-Jefferson than Beasley-Love-Darko. The Jefferson trade was never something that I completely agreed with. If you plug in Jefferson for Darko, and run him for the 35-40 minutes that Sloan is in Utah, the Wolves win more ballgames. I guess the question that some had, including Kahn/Taylor, was whether it was worth all of the additional money. As a fan, I’d rather have the wins.
Going back over this...
I’m probably coming down on Cousins more than I intended. I like his game as a post player, but don’t think he’s going to be as special as a Brandon Roy-type. Also, I think he’s going to be wearing a different uniform within three years or so. To me, the stories of the D-League possibility, the choking sign, and the kicked-out-of-practice are every bit as noteworthy for a player with his reputation than some productive stints on a horrible team. Hypothetically, if we never got Beasley, I think Johnson would have had some pretty big scoring nights by now. The opportunities are not always there, depending on the flow of the game, for him.
He's definitely a problem child
A horribly, horribly talented problem child.
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
www.canishoopus.com
Hate being the apologist
but the desire for logical arguments overwhelms me.
This guy is burning down the franchise. Look at what is in front of them. They’ll get a top pick in one of the weakest drafts in recent memory and then Clippergeddon hits.Well, you make quite a point of the fact that Kahn has burned through amazing assets, but weren’t most of those “assets” connected to what easily could be the weakest NBA draft in recent memory? Hard to pin that one on Kahn, and I’d need to credit him for moving the #16 pick to get an actual NBA talent. Bemoan Wes, but how many teams did get an NBA starter out of the draft last year. I’ll give you the Flynn p[ick as a debacle. Absolutely no question. Beyond that I don’t see any impeachable offenses yet. You can talk bottom line and toss the win total out there, but would that be any different if the team was running out DeRozan and Cousins? While the future might be brighter, I think that your appeal to the bottom line would make Kahn look just as inept as you’re trying to paint him now.
Yep..
….because I’ve had a real hard time sussing out the good play of Kevin Love from a crappy team. Good to great players are easy to identify in the NBA. I think I’m pretty fair when it comes to identifying and giving credit to good players.
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
www.canishoopus.com
Yeah, no argument from me
but that was in response to what, exactly?
Fine..
….then a team with better players could have an equally bad bottom line in the early years of player development. I’m just clumsily trying to point out that good players can be identified in the dung heap and there aren’t too many on the Wolves.
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
www.canishoopus.com
Don't forget
That it took almost all of last year before people finally started to admit that the Flynn pick WAS a debacle. I remember as late as February/March that people “still weren’t convinced that Curry was that much better than Flynn.” It has subsequently become clear that Flynn was one of the worst if not THE worst point guard pick that Kahn could have made in that draft, and he did it at #6.
I think we’re playing out the same thing with the Wes pick. Cousins’ early season troubles are still sticking in people’s minds (both his play and off-court issues), and people are still holding out hope that Wes isn’t what he has shown himself to be already (an extremely limited player who disappears for long stretches of time).
Yet, the reason the people who said the Flynn pick was a debacle even midway through last year were right is because they weren’t limiting their view to his pro play (and Curry/Lawson’s pro play). When we look at Cousins and Wes in the context of both their pro and collegiate play, I think there’s much more reason to worry. Wes’ play is bearing out what was said about him in college. Meanwhile, Cousins has struggled at times, but he’s also shown flashes of being the extremely productive player in college.
Time will tell which player is ultimately better, but it’s hard not to feel like Wes pick was a bit of a resignation—accepting a player at #4 who clearly was never going to be much better than an average NBA talent.
by WolvesFan03 on Jan 10, 2011 12:15 PM CST up reply actions
I can see hating the Wes pick because it was safe
and maybe that is resignation. I viewed it in a different light because I saw the biggest problem with the Wolves was wing play of any sort. I was willing to see rolling the dice on Wes because I saw no other way that the wing play was going to be improved in the offseason unless we got a playmaker in return for Big Al. I did not anticipate Beasley/Webster. However, I still think that the 2 guard has not been addressed and is the biggest need for next season (vs PG for this season).
In contrast, I hated the Flynn pick instantly because it was neither safe nor a swing for the fences.
by dropstep on Jan 10, 2011 3:07 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe some defend him because they root for the hometown squad, win or lose
I’m skeptical about him and obviously have long-term concerns, but what the hell does it do for me to be concerned about anything else than the team’s competitiveness and success? Watching basketball is a hobby for me and for many on this site. We’re not debating serious matters because being a basketball fan isn’t a serious endeavor.
Now, I get that some people have to root for a winner and that some don’t have infinite patience. But some are just basketball fans who are from MN or the surrounding area, like to root for the hometown teams, and either prefer pro basketball or don’t like rooting for team from a college that they didn’t go to. I’m not delusional. I’d just rather shrug off a loss and celebrate a win because life is stressful enough that wringing my hands over a pro basketball team is wasted energy and unneeded stress.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jan 10, 2011 1:55 PM CST up reply actions
Disagree about DMC
DMC is about to get his coach and GM fired man. Chemistry is so important. If there weren’t legitimate chemistry red flags Phylly or NJ would have taken him too. DMC doesn’t play defense either and is going to have half the team hate him. Can’t do it if you want to win.
"DMC is about to get his coach and GM fired man."
You say that like its a bad thing…
Another 3?
Wasn’t (isn’t?) Webster a 2 that can play some 3? I thought that was the point with him.
And as far as Darko, he doesn’t look like he’s been completely healthy for weeks. Whether that’s the coaching staff or him refusing to have games off, I don’t know, but when he’s out there and healthy he looks alright offensively and is arguably the most important piece defensively.
But basically, taking Cousins means getting rid of Love. There’s no middle ground between those two because defensively they’re the second coming of Love-Jefferson. So who would you rather have?
Already mentioned, but let's do it again..
Last night I got into an argument with my brother (man-crush on Wes) about Wes and what we should do with him. I think on a lot of teams I would give him the minutes that we give him, but to me Wes is the kind of player that needs veterans playing around him for him to find his true potential. And that we do not have. I told my brother last night that i would be starting Brewer over him every night, and i am very glad we started it tonight. Honestly i’ve been down on Corey for his offense as much as everyone else but i cant help but love the kid. He plays fantastic defense and he provides the good kind of up-tempo play style. The kid is 200% effort every second he’s on the floor. I would start Brewer every night, pick the hot hand on the opposing team and have Corey give him hell. Tell Brewer “I don’t care if you score 0 points, as long as the guy across from you wants to punch you in the face for being so annoying all game. no stupid fouls, but if you don’t foul-out your not playing hard enough.” I’ll admit Brewer has a good smile, but the past two games we’ve seen a much more serious, and non-smiling, Brewer and he’s played gritty basketball. We need that!
AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD SOMEONE FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE DARKO PLAY LIKE THIS EVERY NIGHT!! Hire a P.I. to figure out what he does differently on nights he gets going like this, we NEED him to find his stride! i was there for the Spurs game at home when it seemed as if Darko was on top of the world when we started the “Darrkoo, Pollllooooo” chant. figure the guy out!
Just dropping by to say I’ve been really impressed with how yall have played us so far this year. Without rambling too much (I’ve got to be up for class in a few hours), I think the Wolves have a great core of rotation quality players. I think if Beasley develops any kind of consistency you’re looking at a more athletic version of Carmelo, and Love/Darko compliment each other very well in the frontcourt- Darko is the big bruising defender and Love can shoot and rebound. On your bench, you’ve got good substitutes for the two of them in Tolliver (shooter/rebounder) and Pekovic.
In talking with some of the others at Pounding the Rock, I’ve pretty much reached the conclusion yall are a good coach and maybe a better PG away from being the 8 seed in the west.
While Kahn isn’t going to be up for executive of the year, I don’t think he’s completely screwed anything up, either. You’ve got a good foundation and after Tuesday I’ll be wishing yall the best of luck.
It's in the dictionary under D-E-F-E-N-S-E...I may be wrong, I may be wrong, I may be wrong, I may be may be may be wrong, but I doubt it.
by SpursfanSteve on Jan 10, 2011 2:06 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Oh, and IMO Brewer needs to start for yall against any team with good perimeter scorers. I haven’t seen anyone play Manu that tough in a long, long time.
But I’ve only seen the Spurs/Wolves match ups, so I’ve got no idea what he’s like the rest of the time.
It's in the dictionary under D-E-F-E-N-S-E...I may be wrong, I may be wrong, I may be wrong, I may be may be may be wrong, but I doubt it.
by SpursfanSteve on Jan 10, 2011 2:14 AM CST up reply actions
Thanks for the input
It’s nice to see some feel-good comments from someone outside our little Wolves’ bubble.
Thanks
It’s been pleasant on this end to watch them play that well against such a veteran, talented, and disciplined team.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jan 10, 2011 1:57 PM CST up reply actions
NOOOOO!!!
Kahn is BURNING DOWN an already sh*tty franchise!!! He’s destroyed a 24 win team centered around a gimpy Al Jefferson, Kevin Love and Randy Foye. He’s the worst GM EVAR!!!
We've got them again this week
It would be awesome if we could turn these positives into one win – if only to stick it to Sean Elliot, who actually managed to be more obnoxious than Heinsohn.
Schizophrenic and Brewer Fan. Unrelated.
Giggle Giggle Quack...
also rocks…
"I'm gonna make you cry...I'm gonna make you cry and dip my cookie in your tears!!!"
As a Spurs fan....
I have complete respect for your team.
You guys are underrated at your record, and I have been concerned playing you each game.
So as you can see im concerned about Tuesday.
Spurs #1 in the NBA!!! --- Eagles Win NFC East!!!! Vick-Tory!!
by DRIVE FOR FIVE on Jan 10, 2011 11:31 AM CST reply actions
Pop said the same thing
Nice to hear it from him, even if he was being generous. It’s nice to hear such optimism about our team from players and coaches, as well as opposing fans. Though I do think we Wolves fans pay enough attention to the team to have some real concerns about whether we’ll actually “turn the corner”, it’s nice to have some counterbalance to those qualms that actually carries some weight.
Your team is good. Look forward, not backward.
Spurs #1 in the NBA!!! --- Eagles Win NFC East!!!! Vick-Tory!!
by DRIVE FOR FIVE on Jan 10, 2011 1:41 PM CST up reply actions
Pops:
from local San Antonio paper
http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2011/01/09/wolves-give-spurs-a-third-close-call/
"One good PG away from getting over the hump"
Yeah
Those are the quotes I had in mind. They played his interview every time they played the recap of the game on NBATV last night. He seemed pretty genuine about it too.
The OT game earlier this year in MN had me on the edge of my seat.
Minnesota is going to be scary next year when you guys gel and finish out games stronger.
Not to mention your draft pick.
Spurs #1 in the NBA!!! --- Eagles Win NFC East!!!! Vick-Tory!!
by DRIVE FOR FIVE on Jan 10, 2011 3:25 PM CST up reply actions
Favorite quote from that article
"Their record makes them look like a losing team, but they play like winners every night," Popovich said. "It’s going to turn for them."
That’s the kind of respect i was hoping for this season! and THIS season we truly deserve it.
Thanks for popping in
Hopefully Tuesday will be an enjoyable game
Cool
always enjoy having a good conversation with others. Hate trolls, love the game.
Spurs #1 in the NBA!!! --- Eagles Win NFC East!!!! Vick-Tory!!
by DRIVE FOR FIVE on Jan 10, 2011 3:26 PM CST up reply actions
S-n-P
Have you considered doing a post on attainable guys that the Wolves are or should be looking at?
It would make for some interesting reading with more near-term applicability than the draft stuff.
If you want to mix in a combo platter of personal speculation with inside info and not say which is which, I won’t complain ;)
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
Sorry - forgot to mention I meant trades before the dealine
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Jan 10, 2011 12:56 PM CST up reply actions
I have two that I'm sitting on...
….one is a post about how I think Super Friends and the pending CBA fight has changed the dynamics of how cap space can be used. It needs some work and I don’t know how it should end. The main premise is that it’s going to be hard to rent out cap space or get players that matter in lopsided trades when the best players all want to play with one another and with a CBA that is in flux.
The other post is a love letter to OJ Mayo and Monta Ellis with alternate realities. Reality #1: If the Wolves are going down the fast-paced route, I want them to go all-in, a’la Zombie Ball from a few years back. Play Love at the center and let Ellis go nuts. This post has a bizzaro world alternate where they hire Dwane Casey, slow down the pace, trade for Mayo and run pick and rolls, dominate the boards, and play defense.
Insincerity is the best sincerity. Survive and celebrate Bunny Month.
www.canishoopus.com
Those sound very interesting
I was thinking of a top 10 or 20 list, with a Hoopus Score type stat to help find the ‘winners’ vs. the ‘big name’ guys in the list. But perhaps that is kind of useless without knowing which way the team wants to move (as you reference in your second paragraph).
Re: Mayo, I really like the idea of adding an above average NBA guard. But I’m not willing to give up too much given that he is small, doesn’t play awesome defense, and is a jump shooter who doesn’t get to the line much. Doesn’t seem like he addresses the key areas of weakness: perimeter D, interior D, lack of free throw attempts. Maybe helps as a playmaker since Webster/Wes/Brewer seem to possess a level of dribbling skill not normally seen outside the C position.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Jan 10, 2011 2:11 PM CST up reply actions
Zombie Ball for me, please
For the time being. Eventually, I’d like to get a legit center and an efficient ball movement offense.
Just a general hypothetical question:
Which scenario is worse?
Wolves sitting at 1-2 vs. the Spurs with the 2 losses being blowouts
or
The current situation
To me, competitiveness is as important as winning, and would the first scenario really mean the Wolves were more competitive with the Spurs than what’s actually gone on?
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jan 10, 2011 1:59 PM CST reply actions
I agree
especially given how many three point shooters the Wolves have. A single victory, likely based on unreproducible hot outside shooting, sandwiched between two blowout losses seems worse.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Jan 10, 2011 2:12 PM CST up reply actions
I'm just waiting for
Nemanja Bjelica to come over and take the NBA by storm, if Henk Norel doesn’t do it first.
It would be nice, though, if he were at least good enough to bump another scrub off the team and make the team that much less crappy. I’ll be happy on some level if we can just get the Kosta Koufos’ of the world (most specifically the Doufos himself) off of our team and out of our rotation for some players that can make some positive contributions more often than not.
my take on all of this..
I find the argument being made that Cousins was not the far better choice at the 4 is preposterous especially with his recent performance. I completely concur with SnP that when all is said and done, the Wes-Cousins decision will rival the Roy-Foye debacle (the caveat here is that the Wolves did not keep Roy due to his knee situation which you ultimately have to give them credit for). All you need do is look at Cousin’s game log (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/gamelog?playerId=4258) to see a glimmer of what he is capable of which everyone already knew, and compare it to Wesley’s ceiling. Unfortunately, as much as I like the kid, Johnson is at best a slightly above average starter as he cannot create his own shot and is unlikely to be learn how to do so (seems too late in his career for this as I can’t think of anyone off hand who was able to). His contributions are likely to be largely limited to playing strong defense and knocking down open jumpers. In contrast, Cousins is a potentially transcendental talent playing arguably the most difficult position (center) to fill adequately through the draft or free agency. His limitations including his immaturity and defensive mistakes can be rectified unlike Wes’. Moreover, and to me this is the most important issue, a franchise like ours must swing for the fences every chance we have as we are not attractive to free agents and we have been terrible for some time. That is why I didn’t disagree with giving Milicic a contract and loved the Beasley signing because, when all is said and done, we are going to have to get lucky to ever contend in this league due to our inability to lure free agents. We are going to have to hope that a guy like Milicic can figure it out, that Beasley was merely lost in Miami (this seems to be the case), that Rubio will come to the NBA next season and be exactly what we hope he will be. For the same reason we should have take Cousins despite concerns regarding his maturity. Teams like ours simply do not become contenders by playing it safe (see our history).
I think some of you are limiting Wes’ ceiling. I know he looks like an average starter at best now, but he’s not in an ideal situation and players can improve. He’s being forced to play shooting guard and his role has primarily been that of a spot up shooter. This is probably due to necessity but I haven’t seen him get too many isolations (shouldn’t he be able to take the smaller 2 guards in the high post and either shoot over them or get to the basket in one dribble?).
Also, considering he’s a late bloomer, he can definitely improve his ball handling. He’s never going to be a Lebron James type ball hander but he can definitely bring his skills up to the point where he’s a 20 ppg scorer. I wouldn’t bet my life on it but with his athleticism and ability to shoot the rock, Wes doesn’t have to get fancy with his ball handling/shot creating. Once he learns to finish and/or get to the free throw line, it’ll make him a much better player. Richard Jefferson came into the league as an athlete/defender type and eventually turned into an efficient scorer (then turned into an inefficient scorer __) but he did it without being a great ball handler.
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