Finding half-filled glasses
by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 28, 2011 8:36 AM CST
Email
PrintSo your favorite team just lost a game for many of the same reasons that made them the league's worst franchise last season. They shot poorly, made stupid turnovers, got too cute with simple plays, and didn't defend.
What to do?
Thoughts below the fold.
First of all, hats off to 10 minute Timberwolf Norris Cole.
* The Houston Rockets traded Brad Miller, Nikola Mirotic, Chandler
Parsons and a future 1st round draft pick to the Minnesota Timberwolves
for Jonny Flynn, Donatas Motiejunas and a future 2nd round draft pick.
* The Chicago Bulls traded Norris Cole, cash and Malcolm Lee to the
Minnesota Timberwolves for Nikola Mirotic.
* The Miami Heat traded Bojan Bogdanovic to the Minnesota Timberwolves
for Norris Cole, cash and a future 2nd round draft pick.
* The Minnesota Timberwolves traded Bojan Bogdanovic to the New Jersey
Nets for cash and a future 2nd round draft pick.
* The Minnesota Timberwolves traded Chandler Parsons to the Houston
Rockets for cash.
While you certainly could have been used in the Minny backcourt, your contribution to the Timberwolf franchise is strong and secure thanks to the money you helped raise to buyout the Zen Apprentice's contract. We thank you for the cash.
Kevin Love had an amazingly weird amazing game. He ended up with 31 points and 20 rebounds. His first quarter was nothing short of astounding: 17 points on 3 shots with 5 rebounds and no turnovers. However, he followed that up with a suspicious 1-7 effort from the field in the 2nd quarter, and 8 FGA + 7 FTAs the rest of the way. His effort kept the Wolves afloat in the early goings, couldn't keep them up to speed in the awful end of the 2nd quarter, and leveled out in the 2nd half. It also mirrored the horrific officiating of this particular tilt. I stepped on the treadmill for an hour run at 7:40 and was about 3/4 the way done with my run after the 1st quarter, which was filled to the brim with 20 personal fouls and no-stop stoppage.
All of that being said, Love finished the game with less than a point created (0.98) per possession used. Only 1 Wolf finished the game with a 1+ pc/pu: Luke Ridnour (1.18). Even everybody's favorite magical unicorn couldn't muster a 1+ number (his 4th quarter maintained his magical unicorn status).
Luke Ridnour also finished the game with his ankles completely in tact. That is an improvement over the first contest.
As for other positives....hummmmmm...let's see.
Everybody knows that Kevin Love's first word was "mine". That's something of a positive.
OK, whatever. It's only 2 games but last night's tilt was a horrifying reminder of just how thin this damn team is. The formula of Kevin Love + Rick Adelman + 2 players worth of average-to-above-average production = competent pro ball isn't going to change. Last night Love got 35-40 minutes of average to above average production from 1 of the guard spots and about 8 minutes of average to above average production from Michael Beasley. It was almost enough to win them the game against a physical and hard-to-watch Bucks squad.
The thing that really worries me about this team is that they won't have enough practice time to work through the sorts of bumps in the road we saw last night. During the Heat's opening game on Christmas, Jeff Van Gundy made the point that this year's condensed schedule will really put a premium on teams knowing what they are doing. The Heat have 11 scheduled practices between now and the end of the season. That's crazy, even for a talented and veteran team like Miami. It would be really interesting to know just how many scheduled practices the Wolves have going forward. I doubt they will have enough to ease any worries about...ugh, the lockout really, really sucked.
Last night's tilt should be known as the ugly game where players passed up open looks for 1-2 dribble drives into 3 defenders. I counted 4 plays in the 1st half where someone like Michael Beasley or Wes Johnson or Derrick Williams had an open 3, pump faked, and then dribbled into a contested shot or charge. One of these moves even got a loud "for f$*ks sake" from a fellow Y-goer. This is a positive. Last year nobody but me was watching at the gym.
Another theme that will be with us all year long is the spectre of awful wing play. How can a team with as many draft picks and as much cap space as the Blueprints have talked about not have any competent wing players? Wes Johnson is an awful, awful basketball player who has no business being on an NBA court. Michael Beasley is Michael Beasley. They have no one else at the 3. They have a ton of 4/5s, but nobody should be kidding themselves that they have anything approaching a workable 3/4. Worst of all, they are out of compelling assets to move for help on the wing. Love and Rubio are cornerstones and shouldn't be touched. Williams has had a rough go of it so far (he was dreadful last night) but you can see the talent. He's pretty much it. Nobody is going to give up a working part for Beasley or Johnson. Neither guy could probably fetch the Rashad McCants Memorial Toaster at this point.
Speaking of Derrick Williams, he played the 4/5 last night alongside Love and Anthony Tolliver. Any hopes of him being a 3 should be about a mile behind the bus at this point. He's a gigantic 4 who switched off on Andrew Bogut, John Leuer, and Nick Collison on successive nights.
The elephant in last night's room was the turnovers. The Wolves had a better eFG, were better on the glass, and destroyed the Bucks on the line--the only Four Factor loss was a huge one in the turnover battle. The Bucks had a 10.5 TO% to the Wolves' 21.8%. Despite all of the Wolves trips to the line, and all of their rebounds, they handed the Bucks a net 13 possession gain simply by way of turnovers. The Wolves simply cannot overcome something like that, even against a terrible shooting team like the Bucks. Darko had 5 turnovers in under 25 minutes. D-Will had 4 in under 20. These are horrific numbers that cannot be climbed over on the way to winning basketball.
Well folks, that about does it. So far this year we have the formula (L + RA + 2(avgp*48 mpg) = CPB), the practice issue, the talent issue, and a replay/flashback of the horrifyingly terrible wing play of McFrewer. With JJ Barea's dinged up hammy, some of these issues will be even further tested. Our Beloved Puppies could be looking at a 7 man rotation in the very near future, which will be the exact opposite of what people like Bill Simmons thought they'd see with this team (i.e. a deep bench with a 2nd unit that could help them during a shortened season). This roster is still mostly garbage and it shouldn't take the new competent coaching staff to make this fact clear in the box score.
Until later.
| Scoring | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | T | |
| MIN | 30 | 18 | 20 | 27 | 95 |
| MIL | 32 | 28 | 19 | 19 | 98 |
429 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Wes Johnson =
Poor man’s Corey Brewer?
by Pedro Munoz is fast on Dec 28, 2011 8:46 AM CST reply actions
i've watched both games thus far
Johnson does not look so good. at least knock down a wide open jumper.
Me too..
Here is the thing. Wes is a much better shooter but Corey was assured to be good defensivly, brought high energy, could rebound well and would make an eye popping play every once in a while. If he had been coached right then they would have taken the ball out of his hands and made him an off ball player.
by bringbackbrewer on Dec 28, 2011 1:06 PM CST up reply actions
"Wes is a much better shooter"
unless you judge shooting based on whether the ball goes into the basket or not.
He didn't say
“Wes is a much better maker . . . "
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Wes isn't even a better "shooter" if we're making that distinction.
Corey got shots off. Way, way, way too many.
"Opinion ...a confession."
Corey
would’ve been perfect with Rubio, and seems like a terrific Adelman type player. His biggest problem here was 1) expectations, 2) idiot coaching, and 3) playing with a bunch of buffoons who couldn’t figure out how to play together.
Right now I’d love to have him over Wes, so expecations? Enough said.
Adelman is the anti-thesis of Wittman or Rambis. Did y’all see what Corey did under Carlisle? Check.
Playing with bone-headed players? Meet Ricky, Corey. Check.
by Dr. Wolfenstein on Dec 28, 2011 6:05 PM CST up reply actions
Well...
Hard to do worse than Brewers 33 percent.
At least Wes looks like a smoohter shooter.
by bringbackbrewer on Dec 28, 2011 1:11 PM CST up reply actions
Career Shooting percentages
Wes: 39.7%, 3PT: 35.8%, FT: 69.6%
Brewer: 40.8%, 3PT: 31.2%, FT: 69.7%
But yes, Wes’ misses are very pretty.
I stand corrected.
In that case…. Bring back brewer…. Think the Mavs would do a Brewer for Wes trade?
by bringbackbrewer on Dec 28, 2011 1:21 PM CST up reply actions
Well...So...
Wes for Brewer…Nuggets? Maybe…
by bringbackbrewer on Dec 28, 2011 1:24 PM CST up reply actions
as a nuggets fan first and a wolves fan second
you can keep johnson :)
Sheesh
When you had a headache, I don’t think the best solution is to slam your hand in a card door to take your mind off it.
Both are iffy backup SFs who were/are forced into too much SG duty due to the Wolves absence of competency there. Brewer tried to do way way too much. Shot too much. Dribbled and spun too much. Wes seems to do very little, but even that is not very succesful. Bricks and turnovers.
I’d vote for choice C, which is a competent SG. I’d be thankful for Mayo at this point, and I don’t even like him very much.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Dec 28, 2011 10:04 PM CST up reply actions
Ha
Well put. No one should ever pine for Corey Brewer.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
thank you
for permission :)
by bringbackbrewer on Dec 29, 2011 11:58 AM CST via Android app up reply actions
I will say that we didn't have a melt down again in the 4th like so often last year.
That said…it did look a lot like last year every where else.
by Timberwolf i.e. Albatross on Dec 28, 2011 8:48 AM CST reply actions
I like that Adelman and Porter have been trying to stick to a short rotation
Only 10 players have even seen the court this year for the Wolves, and one of those players is Randolph, who has a grand total of 3 minutes played.
Nevertheless, even with our short rotation, somebody as awful as Wes Johnson is still getting nearly 30 minutes per game. If Barea misses time, we’re going to be really hurting at the 2/3. Wolves need Barea/Rubio/Ridnour to lock up almost all the minutes at the 1 and 2 to ensure that we see less of Wes.
What is the fan in the picture doing? His hand with the program is where, again?
"Opinion ...a confession."
Trying to teach Rubio the reacharound pass?
by deus04 on Dec 28, 2011 11:08 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
What I got from my first glance at the box score was,
turnovers, ugh.
Leuer continues to look like a nice, nice find for the Bucks.
"Opinion ...a confession."
The boxscore from last night said Lee was out with a sore knee
Hopefully he will be better soon because he can’t be much worse then Wes.
It was a bit odd that ellington did not get even a minute despite Wes’ terrible play.
by Tollysnipes on Dec 28, 2011 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
ugh
worst part. barea’s injury. it means more rubio-ridnour combo, which is simply an awful, awful combination. particularly on defense. ricky needs an active defender alongisde him or he will look lost on most plays. it happened last night, too much swtiching.
the best part was adelman not being there, terry porter can’t be a head coach in this league, and specially can’t coach up-tempo, he simply can’t.
another bright point is that the next game is someone everybody expect the twolves to lose, so if they can get anything positive, even a close hard fought loss like the one against okc, the team might get their confidence back (although an 0-3 start doesn’t sound that good)
The worst part with the Rubio - Ridnour combination
is that Ridnour would have the ball, with Ricky parked in a corner. Who could possibly think that’s a good idea.
Yep. That was ridiculous
Ridnour just does not have the play making skills required to make the role players on this roster effective.
This.
I think rubio got shorted alot this game. When he was on the court he did two things, either sat there while Ridinour did his “thing” or he had to pass the ball to Beasley and let him go ISO. I think porter terribly misused Rubio.
by bringbackbrewer on Dec 28, 2011 1:08 PM CST up reply actions
Criminy. I didn't watch it, but Ricky must be having flashbacks to the Spanish national team.
"Opinion ...a confession."
No...
Rubio wasnt used as a PG. He either passed to Beasley for an ISO or played SG while Ridinour played PG.
by bringbackbrewer on Dec 28, 2011 1:24 PM CST up reply actions
nevermind my comment
I see what you meant.
by bringbackbrewer on Dec 29, 2011 9:04 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
SNP (and anyone else)
What do you think the future holds for Williams? Seems to me there is no way around the fact that he is a 4. Short of committing to Love at the 5, how do they coexist in the ling-term? I like Williams but honestly I hope the FO realizes he is our best asset and tries to build up his trade value so we can move him for a valuable piece like a good pick in a draft likely to be loaded with SGs (Beal or Lamb? Yes please) or someone like Eric Gordon.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
by Xand1 on Dec 28, 2011 9:33 AM CST via mobile reply actions
I actually
Kind of like him as 5/4 more than anything right now. He looks like he could bulk up in ways Love can’t without losing a step, and he’d be an absolute handful for most centers. Defensively he should be watching Darko, and he’d probably need a Darko type to rotate with him. But this is the staff who won with Chuck Hayes at center, so if anyone could turn Williams into a 5 it’s these guys.
by Dr. Wolfenstein on Dec 28, 2011 9:38 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
The problem with that
Is that Chuck Hayes is the only plus defending sub 6’9 C who wasn’t a freak athlete I can think of. He is more of an anomaly than Ben Wallace. Williams or Love at C doesn’t seem like a path to long-term success to me.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
by Xand1 on Dec 28, 2011 9:45 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Here's all I'm saying
or wondering, which is more accurate: why can’t Derrick Williams be an effective 5/4 guy? I don’t buy into the size/height bit because there are plenty of effective 5/4s in the NBA who are ‘small’:
Al Jefferson, 6’ 9.75 in shoes, 9’ 2 standing reach
Amare, 6’ 10 in shoes, 9’ 0.5 standing reach
Nene, 6’ 10.25 in shoes, 9’ 1 standing reach
Kevin Love, 6’ 9.5 in shoes, 8’ 10 standing reach
Dwight Howard, 6’ 10.25 in shoes, 9’ 3.5 standing reach
Al Horford, 6’ 9.75 in shoes, 8’ 11 standing reach
Emeka Okafor, 6’ 10 in shoes, 9’ 2.5 standing reach
Derrick Williams, 6’ 8.75 in shoes, 9’ standing reach
So let’s go down the checklist for DWill as a 5/4:
- freak athlete? Yes
- good enough size? Yes
- frame able to add size/muscle/strength? Yes
- offensive fit for skills? Yes
- PG who’s able and willing to make use of those skills? Yes
- defensive ability? Not yet
- shot blocking ability? Not really
- passing ability? Too soon to tell, but probably not very good
- rebounding ability? Decent so far but not elite
- experience in the post? A lot in college
So offensively he could do it but defensively he’ll struggle. I get that. How many centers struggle offensively and defensively and still get 15-20 minutes a game? Coach up his defensive fundamentals and his awareness of what he can and can’t do defensively and trust that his ability to score more than he gives up wins out. He’s a game changer down low because he’s so explosive AND he can drain an outside shot. Short of not being a good shot blocker he’s got the physical profile to be a very good compliment to Kevin Love, a guy who can also bang around inside or hit the outside shot. Pick you poison.
What is very clear to me is that Williams is not an NBA 3.
by Dr. Wolfenstein on Dec 28, 2011 12:31 PM CST up reply actions
Shot blocking
Not convinced that can’t develop.
Either in the OKC game or one of the two preseason games I saw a really nice help defense block that he gave to bail out someone.
with his wingspan/athleticism shot blocking should really boil down to becoming a better defensive player cause it’s within the realm of likelihood for his talents
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 28, 2011 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
He's not really a freakish athlete.
The fact that he doesn’t, and probably won’t, block shots basically disqualifies him from being a “very good” complement to Love.
by Ray Williams? on Dec 28, 2011 12:36 PM CST up reply actions
Really?
He certainly runs the floor pretty well and moves crisply when driving to the basket. Dude’s got a lot of raw power. Maybe not speed, but he’s a handful.
by Dr. Wolfenstein on Dec 28, 2011 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
He’s a good athlete, certainly, but in the NBA, if you can’t realistically guard even one position down, it’s hard to make a case that you are an elite athlete among elite athletes. The freak athletes in the NBA are pretty easy to pick out.
by Ray Williams? on Dec 28, 2011 12:44 PM CST up reply actions
well he is a rookie
who’s played 2 professional basketball games
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 28, 2011 12:54 PM CST up reply actions
How many rookies have been good defensive players their first game?
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I don’t see the physical potential for him to effectively guard wing players, regardless of his experience.
This isn’t some huge slight, he’s just not usually going to be the best athlete on the court. Seemed to work fine for Tim Duncan (I am not comparing Williams to Duncan).
by Ray Williams? on Dec 28, 2011 1:32 PM CST up reply actions
I guess
I wasn’t trying to suggest that Williams could or should guard wing players. I’m suggesting that Williams could and should be able to guard most centers in the league. Maybe not right now, but certainly as the season goes on and over the next couple years.
by Dr. Wolfenstein on Dec 28, 2011 6:07 PM CST up reply actions
The problem
with that is that defense at the Center position has a lot more to do with help defense than it does guarding Centers. Especially in this day and age where Centers don’t score very much.
He has a lot of spring for a guy his size
if you can get 240 pounds to have that much pop, i think that qualifies you as a freak
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 28, 2011 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
Williams is not a freakish athlete
but he is very close. Shot blocking is mostly timing.
I can predict the future using Norm Van Lier's crystal balls.
"Sam has a tendency to denigrate reports coming from any reporter who didn’t also cover the day Naismith first put up the peach baskets." - snley
by NBA Observer on Dec 28, 2011 3:28 PM CST up reply actions
I have no issues with his game offensively
That isn’t what defines your position, it is who you can guard. Nothing in his resume suggests he will be a plus dedender as a 4 let alone a 5.
Comparing him to Dwight is almost as ridiculous as the guy on another board who compared Love to Ben Wallace and Theo Ratliff as an example of how 6’9 players can play C.
Re: your examples, Dwill isn’t on the same plain athletically or length-wise as Dwight. The rest of your examples either play on bad teams, are out of position (Al, Horford, Amare) or have always been good defenders (nene, oak). Doesn’t prove thwt Williams is a long term solution at C. I agree you can play him or Love there for a little while but that isnt a recipe for winning ball.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
by Xand1 on Dec 28, 2011 4:26 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Fair enough
I put Dwight in there knowing I’d get a response like this. As for those other guys – there are hardly any ‘true’ centers anymore. God, I don’t even want to get into this because it’s going to devolve into semantics and that gets none of us anywhere.
I think Williams should get a look at center, even if its just situationally. I readily admit that whatever team he’s on ideally needs a Darko type (true 7 footer who plays defense and shot blocks). However, strictly limiting DThrill to playing at the 4 is, in my opinion, needlessly limiting his positional minutes. Can he guard 5’s? Sure – why not? He’s got the physical ability to, and if we’re being very honest here it’s not like most guys who play center in the league are pretty good at defending their position. I’m not asking nor suggesting that DThrill needs to perform like a top 5 center defensively. All I’m asking is that he perform like a top 25 center defensively (which, incidentally, is Amare Stoudemire). All I’m suggesting is that for 10 or 15 minutes a game Williams can defend opposing good enough that it gives an overall advantage to our team by allowing us to play him, Love, and Beasley together.
Currently Williams is doing OK defensively. He’d rank in the top ten of all defensive centers last year if he had enough minutes.
by Dr. Wolfenstein on Dec 28, 2011 6:16 PM CST up reply actions
Well
You’re right – let’s not devolve into semantics. I think the point stands that you don’t win without a defensive anchor, and I don’t think you can realistically argue that either Love or Williams will provide that at C even if some shorter guys, who generally possess awesome length and instincts, can. Williams wasn’t good at this in college and he even played some 5, and we know Love, even in his slimmer state, isn’t going to do it.
Isn’t DRTG something bball reference made up that isn’t particularly reliable? IIRC it’s not something to put much credence into, though I’ll fully admit I don’t feel like looking into it too deep at the moment.
I just feel it’s inevitable that you have to move Love or Williams. Dwill isn’t a 3, and if you play him at the 5 you are embracing scoring and throwing defense aside because he’s not going to be a plus team defender and that’s what you need next to Love. Even the short guys who lack elite length who are good defenders, Hayes and Collison for example, tend to be bit players because their reckless style of play leads them to high foul rates and they can only do so much as man defenders given their size limitations.
I’m all for seeing what he can do this year, but I think it’s a little idealistic to hope for something that flies in the face of the evidence presented to us.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
I think it's possible that we could trade Williams (plus whatever other than Love or Rubio) for Gordon.
NO / the NBA would probably like another rookie contract, and it wouldn’t surprise me if they thought pretty highly of Williams.
I like D-Will
But I’d love to flip him for a good SG. At this point flipping Beasley for a SG would fill one hole and create another just as big. Wes is worthless, SG or SF. Williams ain’t a SF.
Flipping Williams while he still has that #2 pick shine for an established SG with some good years left in the tank would balance our roster and immediately make us better.
What do you mean by "established"
You can’t dump your one potentially A level piece for an old SG. For a young guy like Gordon or Harden sure, but he won’t yet have the value to pull one of them.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
by Xand1 on Dec 28, 2011 11:19 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I'm not talking about Ray Allen
I just mean someone that’s already proven they’re good. Gordon or Harden would qualify. Iguodala would be great.
What about something like Williams, Wes and Pek for Ben Gordon and Greg Monroe?
what about
Williams to Washington for Nick Young and Javale McGee?
by twolvehoopster on Dec 29, 2011 11:14 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
I'd rather them try for a single player who is really, really good...
…but that probably wouldn’t be a terrible deal. Definitely not anywhere near my first choice, but it’s not terrible. McGee is a functional player at a non-4 position.
it would
Solve issues at both shooting guard and center with average to above average players, give us an athletic defensive center, and a ball handling guard and seems like a realistic trade
by twolvehoopster on Dec 29, 2011 12:30 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
I think Gordon's
got that Pacers jersey already printed up.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
If Williams shows promise this makes some sense
As you said, he is cheaper and this draft may well to offer a replacement for EG where our pick falls.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
by Xand1 on Dec 28, 2011 10:53 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Big D-Will fan....I'd do it in a heartbeat
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 28, 2011 12:55 PM CST up reply actions
too early
it’s game 2 of a lockout season. he’s trying too hard right now.
let him play out the season.
well duh
His value is depressed right now. Build it up by giving him minutes and a stage to show what he can do. The question is how does he fit long term?
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
by Xand1 on Dec 28, 2011 10:50 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
As Jerry Kill observes
Now is when you find out who wants it more and is willing to put the work in and who feels like they are entitled to something. This is going to be a tough two weeks but we’re about to learn a lot about this team’s mental toughness and who is here for the long haul and who is not. We can’t give up now. Erase the last 4 years and ask yourself, ‘Why should I be freaking out right now?’ We nearly beat OKC despite epically bad three point shooting (just 2 more makes out of 14 and we win), and we very nearly beat a Bucks team despite giving them 13 effing more chances to score. The outliers of these two games are just that – outliers. We shot the three better last night. The TOs will fall. Hang in there and pray that ET available for Ridnour, Wes, and Pek.
by Dr. Wolfenstein on Dec 28, 2011 9:34 AM CST via mobile reply actions
The only problem with that,
is that we did the exact same thing last year. We “almost” won many many many games. But we still wound up with only 17 wins. We are doing the same exact thing this year as last year. We are the same team and will probably have the same record. More rebuilding next year! Here we come!
I don't think "the TOs will fall" is enough to say to your team, at this point. It's not inevitable.
As a coach of this roster, I’d be underscoring that the Bucks won that game by defending and by not turning it over.
"Opinion ...a confession."
Is Lee hurt?
I was surprised he didn’t play, and I saw online today that Barea was “joining” Pek, Miller, Webster, and Lee.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Dec 28, 2011 10:01 AM CST via mobile reply actions
link?
"I don't think I've ever seen a group that is as good at turning the ball over as this one." Rick Adelman
http://twitter.com/WolvesRadio/status/152017619908702208
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Dec 28, 2011 10:44 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I thought I saw something, may have been a post here
that said Lee didn’t travel – sore knee or something?
Live And Stupid From England
by JonesTheCat on Dec 28, 2011 10:25 AM CST up reply actions
Okay, here's some optimism
There are three ways this roster can play out. The good news is that two of the scenarios (scenaria?) are good. The bad news is that based on this team’s history, the bad scenario is still the most probable.
1. Adelman’s coaching ability raises the level of the current group of players above what they’ve done in the past. This event is made less likely by the shortened season, and Adelman’s age.
2. Glen realizes the roster just sucks, and goes out to get better players. Unfortunately, this requires Glen to spend money. Fortunately, this event hastens the departure of David Kahn.
3. Adelman can’t improve the play of the players on this roster, and Glen won’t spend any (more) money. First Love leaves, Adelman follows him out the door, and if Ricky Rubio has any merit, he’s also looking for the exit, and we’re right back in Lotto Land. Fortunately, this event hastens the departure (and decapitation) of David Kahn.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Would the decapitated Kahn
Be placed next to the Mikan statue in the lobby?
Where there is a D-Williams, there is a way
I will pay
for its placement.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
by PoorDick on Dec 28, 2011 10:17 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
You've got to be kidding me
The Miami Heat traded Bojan Bogdanovic to the Minnesota Timberwolves
for Norris Cole, cash and a future 2nd round draft pick.
Who the hell is in charge of scouting? We finally have a player that can shoot, and we trade him without even bringing him in? What a mess.
"I don't think I've ever seen a group that is as good at turning the ball over as this one." Rick Adelman
Buyout Shmyout
These guys throw around millions like candy. We need better scouting, period.
"I don't think I've ever seen a group that is as good at turning the ball over as this one." Rick Adelman
Forget that
Trading Mirotic to the Bulls is even worse. Mirotic was just named Euroleague player of the month. He’s leading the best team in Europe in Real Madrid. And he is only 20 years old.
I can predict the future using Norm Van Lier's crystal balls.
"Sam has a tendency to denigrate reports coming from any reporter who didn’t also cover the day Naismith first put up the peach baskets." - snley
by NBA Observer on Dec 28, 2011 10:06 AM CST up reply actions
Yes--
I have a feeling that long after Adelman is gone, there are a going to be a couple of players who were “on” the Wolves during that trading flurry who will turn out to be very good.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
That's bound to happen
when you select and trade about half of the draft in one night. (The Mirotic thing pissed me off, too, though.)
by Madison Dan on Dec 28, 2011 10:11 AM CST up reply actions
It's called the Beno Udrih syndrome
"I don't think I've ever seen a group that is as good at turning the ball over as this one." Rick Adelman
"Who the hell is in charge of scouting?"
At that point, David Kahn was in charge of scouting.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
This explains everything
Too bad we didn’t include him with McHale and Flynn.
"I don't think I've ever seen a group that is as good at turning the ball over as this one." Rick Adelman
The only explanation for Kahn on this
Cole’s pecs and biceps were not as developed of Wes Johnson.
Where there is a D-Williams, there is a way
That's because he's 10 years younger than Wes
"I don't think I've ever seen a group that is as good at turning the ball over as this one." Rick Adelman
Oh
make that 9 years
"I don't think I've ever seen a group that is as good at turning the ball over as this one." Rick Adelman
Wolves Player rankings
Player Rankings
1) Love – Top 10 player?
2) Beasley – Inefficient scoring machine – bad defender – Can he learn?
3) Ridnour – Great Shooter – Should be a role player but trying to do too much on sucky team
4) Berea – Great penetrator – Should be a role player but trying to do too much on a sucky team
5) Rubio – Pure Point Guard – Rookie – Needs to shoot much more, unselfish to a fault. Could be second best player by end of year.
6) Williams – Skilled Power Forward – Rookie – Needs to find his game in the NBA should be very good.
7) Johnson – Needs to find a position and role that fits his talent. Too talented to look so lost and useless on the court.
8) Tolliver – Role player at PF – C
9) Milicic – Strong Defensive C on good day – Worthless on bad day
10) Bad Bench
7) Johnson – Needs to find a position and role that fits his talent.
Here’s one….
"I don't think I've ever seen a group that is as good at turning the ball over as this one." Rick Adelman
by Action on Dec 28, 2011 10:37 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
We should have a flow chart of the evolving expectations for Wes Johnson
From Shawn Marion-esque #4 pick to water boy.
Realisticly, doesn’t it seem like the actual abilities of Wes lie somewhere in between Kahn’s “He looks so awesome!” predraft assessment and our current “He couldn’t hang with Dleaguers!” assessment? I don’t get how a guy who was decent in college can be so bad now…
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Dec 28, 2011 10:51 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I think it mostly had to do...
…with him being decent in college for only 2 months. He played lights out during Syracuse’s non-conference schedule and then went back to being the player he was at ISU.
Johnson was such a terrible draft pick
At the time, the question was Cousins or Johnson, and the answer was clearly Cousins. But even if Cousins’ attitude is totally undesirable, Paul George or Greg Monroe would have been much, much better picks.
It seemed like most people were against the pick
except the one person who mattered most.
"I don't think I've ever seen a group that is as good at turning the ball over as this one." Rick Adelman
We needed a 3 at the time
Johnson was the consensus 4th or 5th pick and we needed a wing.
Still need one
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Dec 28, 2011 11:27 AM CST up reply actions
And a 2
And a 5.
Other than that, we’re good.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Someday, we will all reminisce about these last 2 years in a way that is kind of touching.
Remember when the Wolves had Ramon Sessions and they traded him and Ryan Hollins for Delonte West and Bassy? They then got rid of West and signed Luke Ridnour? Ahhhh, memories.
Remember when Rambis played Love under 30 mpg before 30/30? What the f#$k was that all about?! (ha ha).
Show of hands, who could have seen this coming?!
Someday, the payoff for all of this is going to be AWESOME.
by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 28, 2011 11:38 AM CST up reply actions 6 recs
I've wondered...
What year someone might say “Remember when Tim had pregame posts that were tongue in cheek about our domination of the game and now, here we are playing in the NBA championship”!
Naturally, this may be followed with “Yeah, that was even about 30-40 years prior to super droids being allowed into the league”.
This is my favorite
memory stroll (after the first game last year).
by Dr. Wolfenstein on Dec 28, 2011 6:18 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Can't say it enough
they should’ve traded back or gone Paul George or Greg Monroe.
by Dr. Wolfenstein on Dec 28, 2011 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, or traded up for E.T.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 28, 2011 12:40 PM CST up reply actions
Indeed
It’s constantly either AI or ET…
by Vandelay Ind. on Dec 28, 2011 1:52 PM CST up reply actions
either is fine with me
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Kahn also thought he had a 5
After the brief tryout in the spring he thought the 5 would be set by re-signing Darko. Brewer was the 2 of the future at that time. So a 3 was the next obvious target and Wes fit the bill.
Of course neither the 2 or the 5 were so good and then Beas came along to claim the 3 spot……
by hoopsfan1 on Dec 28, 2011 1:07 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
The two options
were a douche bag and a turd sandwich. Kahn chose the turd sandwich.
by fan44 on Dec 28, 2011 4:48 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Wes would make a great water boy
with his superior length and athleticism…
by Bad News Wolves on Dec 28, 2011 11:55 AM CST up reply actions
True, but
when The Waterboy received the right motivation he was unstoppable.
Here is some good coaching “Gatorade not only quenches your thirst better, it tastes better too … use it”
And it's less filling
like Wes’ jump shot
"I don't think I've ever seen a group that is as good at turning the ball over as this one." Rick Adelman
I honestly don't think Wes is active enough to be a waterboy.
he would just lope around looking lost and indecisive while thirsty people waited expectantly.
by Tollysnipes on Dec 28, 2011 12:13 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Love is certainly a top ten player on the Wolves.
by Ray Williams? on Dec 28, 2011 10:52 AM CST up reply actions
"Johnson – Needs to find a position and role that fits his talent."
Let’s see:
1) Great smile
2) Firm handshake
3) Tall and athletic
4) Fairly good looking
5) Knows the platitudes about “hard work”, “positive attitude”, etc.
6) Fails to deliver on potential/live up to promise
My God, we’ve got a GOP Congressman here!
"Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously."
— Hunter S. Thompson
by SoDakHmr on Dec 28, 2011 8:44 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
"He's going to empower players to be as good as you want to be or he's going to give you enough rope to hang yourself,"
Hopefully this quote from Webber is true for Wes right now. I felt strongly that Wes could at least be a good shooter for the team, but my god it’s getting hard to watch. I can’t believe Malcolm Lee wouldn’t have had a more positive impact on the last couple games.
He looks like a guy who's playing scared and trying too hard
I wonder what he’d be like if he relaxed.
He certainly is capable of finishing Rubio passes on some back door cuts, draining some 3s and playing some competent defense. If he did this, I’d be fine with him being a role player.
"I wonder what he’d be like if he relaxed."
If the team had any perimeter defenders, I would love to see Wes moved to the bench SF position. I think it would feel more like college for him, both for the position, and the level of competition.
If Webster can regenerate his disks or whateverthehelll is wrong with him, maybe we’ll see him at SF with Barea, Rubio, Love, and Darko/Tolliver.
Then the bench of
Ridnour
Lee
Wes
Beasley/Williams
Darko/Tolliver
might actually win a few games for the Wolves.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Webster can play some respectable SF.
I hope he can get healthy.
by Madison Dan on Dec 28, 2011 11:37 AM CST up reply actions
My hopes are not high in this regard.
His back is BAD.
I wanna pull for Wes and he's got a lot of talent...
but I cringe with this team every time a player has a “if they could just ____” then they would be productive. Not that it isn’t true, and maybe Adelman and staff are the ones to help these guys out with getting comfortable. Just reminds me of our other player like this: If Darko could just play more confidently or tougher, if Beasley could just stay focused or make better decisions, if AR could relax and slow down, etc. If there isn’t a way to get those things to happen, it’s just a case of potential not realized.
Nick Young might have been a nice signing
for a team with no quality wing players. I say this in total ignorance of the cap implications. When does Martell Webster come back? Never? And couldn’t a future second round pick get a wing with potential that’s buried on someone’s bench — i.e. Brandon Rush or Corey Brewer (ha).
What I’ve read about Young is that scoring is the ONLY thing he cares about. WAS really has a big group of headcases and selfish young players now. Feel bad for Flip.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Dec 28, 2011 10:55 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Young is the master of the hollow box score
Check his numbers from last year. It is amazing that a player can be on the court that many minutes yet produce so little beyond points. Alsoit is worth checking his bball reference page if for no other reason than to see who sponsors it.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
by Xand1 on Dec 28, 2011 11:04 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Nick Young is playing for a terrible team
It’s too bad he didn’t get any offer sheets. If anything I wanted the Wizards to have to pony up if they really wanted to keep him.
He’ll be an UFA next summer with a flurry of players to choose from.
Nick Young with Rick Adelman would be interesting. Adelman did very good things with Kevin Martin when he convinced Kmart to just go to the rim all the time. Nick Young is bigger than Martin, but not as good of a ball handler.
I can predict the future using Norm Van Lier's crystal balls.
"Sam has a tendency to denigrate reports coming from any reporter who didn’t also cover the day Naismith first put up the peach baskets." - snley
by NBA Observer on Dec 28, 2011 3:33 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe Adleman will finally convince Beasley to go to the rim all the time :)
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Good Stuff
SnP, agree with the takes. I haven’t posted here much but I’ve been on Twolvescentral for over a decade. I put up a post talking short term and long term with the team and we are in a really tough spot. I’m sure I’ll get flamed but essentially this team is going to have to deal Love or Williams before the next draft to make any significant upgrades. There are no free agents, we have no tradeable assets outside of these two and Rubio who is going nowhere so something has to be done. Unfortunately I don’t trust Kahn or anyone in the F.O. to make the right move. This may also be a situation where having R.J. and Rick’s association with Kevin could be a hindrance. We need to get the best deal available and personal connections can’t come into play.
RUMINT has it...
….that Kahn won’t be making any decisions from here on out. I don’t know the first thing about RJ Adelman, but I do think there have been some changes in the FO. I don’t know how they’ll play out.
BUT WAIT!
I THOUGHT RICK ADELMAN TOOK THIS JOB BECAUSE OF THE TALENTED YOUNG ROSTER AND THE OPPORTUNITY TO WORK WITH DAVID KAHN??!!!
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
I am 100% certain
that he is smart enough to know that however much his pay and sway here diminishes, the job with the Wolves will still be better than his next one somewhere else.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Me too
Also, he’s somehow wiggled his way into a no-lose situation. If the team does great, awesome—he might even get another contract. If the team falls apart….well, it’s not like this would change anyone’s thoughts about the guy and he got paid a lot of money to do a job well above and beyond his abilities. He got to play Fantasy Basketball with real people. Who else can claim that sort of interactive experience?
You're right
And he’ll probably position himself as the contract negotiator in chief or something.
So at what point does the Wolves record become too bad to ignore? I think this team will only be favored in 3 games the first month of the season (Home against Cleveland, Sacto and Detroit). What happens if they lose two of those? Or if the magical unicorn starts shooting 30% from the field?
No practice + a shortage of competent players + injury to Barea is going to be ugly I think. This team still lacks a veteran that has been through it before that can actually help close games. We’ll see if Love or RR can become that guy quickly, but it doesn’t look promising to me.
I don't have a good handle on how it will play out
Kahn has a few favorite reporters who can be counted on to dutifully write down what he tells them. Last year he started dropping Rambis bombs via Shooter in December. This year, nada. If you see a Shooter/Sid column or a Jerry blog post about how the lockout really kneecapped Adelman’s ability to coach up the team, then I think we can start the speculation.
To be fair, this team has a lot stacked against it this season with the lockout. The Rubio Rainbow Unicorn Parade caused a lot of us (me included) to overlook basic things like a lack of prep time, terrible supporting cast, etc; and I think there will be more hammy/groin style injuries from players who are pressed too hard. These are legit issues. However, once they start getting typed down in Kahnsian language by Shooter/Sid, then you know a theme is being developed for a very specific reason: the preservation of Kahn.
Don't overlook the fact
That Love is averaging something ridiculous like 40.5 mpg through the first two. I know he is skinny and all now, but that is a huge load. If he goes down with an injury this team is in trouble.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
by Xand1 on Dec 28, 2011 4:35 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
7 games in 10 nights = hammy/groinpocalypse
Barea won’t be the last.
by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 28, 2011 4:55 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Which is why a 9 man rotation makes no sense
especially when most of those 9 are stinking up the joint.
"I don't think I've ever seen a group that is as good at turning the ball over as this one." Rick Adelman
Doug Collins
played only 7 guys – and only two of them could be called ‘bigs’: Hawes and Brand. Ruh-roh.
by Dr. Wolfenstein on Dec 28, 2011 6:19 PM CST up reply actions
In a normal world, that'd be ok to try
but with all the games being played in a compressed time, you don’t want a short rotation, at least at the start. Let the guys work themselves into it to limit the stress.
"I don't think I've ever seen a group that is as good at turning the ball over as this one." Rick Adelman
That could be a money maker for us...
If we could sell the POBO position to affluent types that want to have a real-life fantasy team. Wasn’t the guy from ’N sync going to spend millions to be an astronaut? We could afford to pay off Rambis that way instead of trading for cash on draft night.
Kahn for all his weekness has a couple strengths that might keep him around:
1. His contracts have generally been good. I would argue he has yet to overpay anyone, and has done a good job of not seriously overbidding on anyone.
2. He is a good recruiter. When the wolves have gone after free agents, and they have done a pretty good job of getting them. Despite their terrible two seasons he got Adelman, got Ricky to come, signed Ridnour, Barrea, Tolliver, and almost got Crawford despite the interest of much better teams.
He still sucks, but if he is kept away from talent evaluation, he might be useful.
by Tollysnipes on Dec 28, 2011 12:19 PM CST up reply actions
I agree in spirit
but not in reality.
1. The reason that he hasn’t “overpaid” anyone is that Glen won’t let him, and no free agents worth “overpaying” were interested in coming to the Wolves.
2. Is there an indication that anyone signed with the Wolves for less money than was offered elsewhere?
3. Even if he didn’t technically “overpay” for anyone, how can one argue that any of the FA signings short of Tolliver and maybe Ridnour have panned out anywhere close to the value of the contract?
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
I'm fairly certain...
…Team Adelman thinks he overpaid enough on the roster as a whole where they couldn’t make a decent offer to Crawford. Actually, I’m 100% certain on this one.
Craw
Not saying you’re sources are incorrect. But don’t you think that if Team Adelman liked him so much, they could have made room for him via trades, amnesty, etc? Wouldn’t have required that much manuevering I wouldn’t think.
You're making two mistakes here:
1. Thinking that any other team would like to take anybody other than Love, the rookies, and . . . ? in a salary dump.
2. Thinking that Glen’s concerned about the cap, rather than cash. Amnesty requires them to pay a player who isn’t playing.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
I agree on the 2nd point.
He is probably isn’t interested in the amnesty at this point. But somehow on God’s green Earth, Lazar was able to fetch two 2nd rounders.
In the hands of a normal team
those 2nd round picks might have some value.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Right
I’m not saying they hold any value at all…just saying they were able to unload the contract/player for free.
Sad to think that this is a team
that paid Eddy Curry and Marc Jackson (was it him?) to sit at home and not play – just take up the cap space.
"Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously."
— Hunter S. Thompson
I think they tried to move things around...
….but couldn’t find enough takers to get down in both roster spots and salary. They had to do it without amnestying anyone.
Also...
…I’ve been told by a few people that Kahn wasn’t even interacting with Crawford’s agent. It was RJ. I’m pretty certain a similar scenario played out with Barea. Team Adelman came in, realized they didn’t have a 2 guard, and immediately set about trying to find a vet guard who could run the pick and roll.
So is RJ the player personnel guy now?
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I think so
Honestly, the shortened season has made everything a blur over there. I think they’re still working through roles, office politics, etc. My basic bet is that Team Adelman > everything else.
So pigging backing on our conversation below
Can we give this Admin some time? Or do we rush this Admin to get stuff done?
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
The seas are always stormy
The future is always the future. Win now. Do good things now. This rebuild has been going on one way or another since 04/05.
1. they paid a player to not even show up to the team.
2. Barea was offered 8 mil to stay with Dallas, who he won a national championship with playing meaningful min.
3. Which FA failed to live up to their contracts? not saying none failed, just that was their contracts egregious compared to their production?
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Dec 28, 2011 3:42 PM CST up reply actions
Darko is such an odd player
4 million a year for a 7 footer with a pulse is pretty fair, and sometimes you get the feeling like he is actually out playing his contract (like Monday night), but then he has other nights where you just want to throw up at the notion that he’s here for another 3 years
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Barea's issue wasn't about annual salary
it was the length of the contract. He would have much rather stayed with the Mavs, and who could blame him?
Based on age, cap space, and the Wolves having the worst record in the NBA over the past two years (and counting!), I think they’ve been absolutely miserable contracts.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
17 victories
over two seasons with a minimum $100 million cumulative payroll will do that.
by Dr. Wolfenstein on Dec 28, 2011 6:22 PM CST up reply actions
Good point on recruitment
I’m a Kahn hater, but the Adelman signing and getting Rubio over are legitimately positive things that Kahn did. Of course, it’s hard to say to what degree we can truly attribute those things to value that Kahn added versus what some other GM could accomplish.
by WolvesFan03 on Dec 28, 2011 12:30 PM CST up reply actions
Kahn is a deal-maker
That is his greatest strength, IMO.
1) He made the deal to get the Rubio draft pick.
2) He made the deal with DKV to get Rubio over here two years ago that Rubio backed out of.
3) He made the deal to get Beasley for practically nothing.
4) He made the deal to get AR for practically nothing.
5) He signed Adelman.
If he can stay within his area of expertise, I think Kahn can definitely be an asset to the organization.
Looking for tickets to Wolves' 2011 NBA Preseason Champion ring ceremony, banner unfurling. Please contact
by Black Jack Davy on Dec 28, 2011 2:20 PM CST up reply actions
Kinda like Craig Kilborn when CBS gave him a late-night show
"Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously."
— Hunter S. Thompson
It seems that
Kahns’ best suited to making contracts and wheeling and dealing. it seems form the things I have heard he tends to rely on what his coach wants and then goes out and gets them. Sasha, Darko, Wes, Ridnour. He seems to do a fairly good job of getting players for value (except those he drafts). I think Kahn could do very good in a limited role as the acquirer as long as there is someone competent to make the decisions about what talent to acquire.
I think Kahn understands that he is not a great talent evaluator and so he relies on others to tell hem who to get. last year and the year before it was Rambis, then Ronzone (speaking of which, Wes his boy?) and Rambis wasn’t which was not good. This year it is Adelman and his son. hopefully that means the talent eval will be better. What ever the case, I have confidence Kahn can get whoever Adelman wants.
this isn’t a defense of kahn as GM, just that he does have some skills when it comes to making deals and signing contracts. if that is the limit of his job description going forward then that should be a good thing.
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Dec 28, 2011 3:27 PM CST up reply actions
Kahn is really more of P.B.O
Than an actually GM.
Kahn seems to be good at the administrative aspect of the job than the literal talent evaluation and being the guy who makes the calls on who to get.
It will be interesting to see if he A) keeps his job and B)how it meshes with Rick
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Half full glass here.
I have tremedous confidence in Adelman and staff. However, I have lowered expectations for this season because of no offseason, no preseason and few practices during season. Not ready to throw towel in on anyone until much later in season. Thus, when the poll question came up the other day, I chose only 19 victories.
I would lkie to see how this coaching staff can work with Beasley and Johnson, in particular. But these two and the squad in general are a work in progress and I’m willing to withhold judgment on success or failure to much further down the season’s road. And I am optimistic there will be considerable progress on all fronts.
by Elastico on Dec 28, 2011 10:59 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
I just saw the Norris Cole highlights on Sportscenter.
Dude hit a bunch of long 2’s while the defense layed off of him to stack themselves against DWade and LeBron.
Yea, I think he'll get plenty of looks on that team...
but I remember us getting all bent out of shape over trading Mario Chalmers when he started off hot a couple of seasons ago and that died down pretty quickly
by LosAngelesTWolf on Dec 28, 2011 1:42 PM CST up reply actions
I saw someone (at ESPN?) comment
that getting the Heat to take long 2-point shots by Cole means you’ve done your job. They just went in that night.
Yeah
Not regretting not having him. What was he, like 6/12?
It’s like teams baiting rondo into shooting…
It's a good thing
that long two’s are the best shot!%
by Dr. Wolfenstein on Dec 28, 2011 6:23 PM CST up reply actions
Yep
Cole is playing smart because its so hard to play awful with Wade, Lebron and Bosh around you.
I can predict the future using Norm Van Lier's crystal balls.
"Sam has a tendency to denigrate reports coming from any reporter who didn’t also cover the day Naismith first put up the peach baskets." - snley
by NBA Observer on Dec 28, 2011 3:35 PM CST up reply actions
Young wolves missed Adelman's presence last night
and decided to honor the late Kurt Rambis with a stink bomb.
Quite confused
Where I’m at there is no cable nor internet. But I was able to occasionally get some stats on the game after refreshing the pages on my cell several times on 1 bar of roaming 2g. This is what I see:
-Game tied at like 40
-K love at 17 pts on 2/3
I was like holy #&$*! I briefly thought it was a mistake since the gamecast didn’t have ftm.
Then:
-down like 20
-beasely had like 5 pts and 4 fouls
-k love at 3/10 (so much for the insane efficiency)
And finally
-lose by only 3
-love gets a 30-20
From what I read it was an ugly game and I didn’t miss much but it was weird with the occasional stuff I saw.
by Waucckhewww on Dec 28, 2011 11:41 AM CST via mobile reply actions
It was a strange and not very good game.
We just stopped playing offense in the second quarter, and the Bucks started scoring in ways that were very hard to notice. The comeback seems more impressive on paper than it looked on the screen. Just an ugly game.
by Madison Dan on Dec 28, 2011 11:45 AM CST up reply actions
what kind of rotations are we running in the 2nd?
I was at the opener and we had a terrible 2nd q there too. Is there a certain rotation that just cannot score or is it just everyone stops scoring? I think at the opener they sat love and beas then, and that’s what I thought did it then. Like the recap says I thought we were going to have an advantage off the bench, not so much now but there is still time.
by Waucckhewww on Dec 28, 2011 11:54 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Quite confused
Where I’m at there is no cable nor internet. But I was able to occasionally get some stats on the game after refreshing the pages on my cell several times on 1 bar of roaming 2g. This is what I see:
-Game tied at like 40
-K love at 17 pts on 2/3
I was like holy #&$*! I briefly thought it was a mistake since the gamecast didn’t have ftm.
Then:
-down like 20
-beasely had like 5 pts and 4 fouls
-k love at 3/10 (so much for the insane efficiency)
And finally
-lose by only 3
-love gets a 30-20
From what I read it was an ugly game and I didn’t miss much but it was weird with the occasional stuff I saw.
by Waucckhewww on Dec 28, 2011 11:46 AM CST via mobile reply actions
The title of your post
sounds a lot like the style of basketball the Wolves play.
"I don't think I've ever seen a group that is as good at turning the ball over as this one." Rick Adelman
Doh!
Eff you reception! I didn’t think it posted.
by Waucckhewww on Dec 28, 2011 12:01 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
When, or IF
the Wolves start shooting better, they should win some games. Just a few more Measley makes, and we’re 2-0.
Less Wes and we’re 2-0
More Malcolm, we’re 2-0
I still have hope
but the glass is now only 1/4 full
"I don't think I've ever seen a group that is as good at turning the ball over as this one." Rick Adelman
Let's just chalk this up to a bad game.
As it stands it was an ugly game that is making a lot of Wolves fans very nervous,
but in the big scope of a season it could very well just be an awful blip on an otherwise pretty good season.
Let’s see how this all plays out, they have three days of practice here. I’m expecting a good effort v Heat
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
1
I think they have one practice. Adelman apparently wants rest following back-to-backs and the Heat game is Friday.
Although I should say
They didn’t expend any energy in last night’s game, so maybe they got their rest. Get to practice.
Shooting Guards are in such short supply around the (our) league
it almost doesn’t matter that the Wolves have basically no tradable assets (if we assume SG is the primary roster need). Here is a slightly out of date list. Taking into consideration the various factors that would need to be assessed like contract, skills, availability, length, smile etc, there’s not a lot of attractive options.
It puts the Wolves is a very difficult situation, but in my view, they have good players elsewhere (PG, PF) and maybe an average SF too. I’d look to replace the Center (probably as difficult as SG) or bolster the SF (where supply is more abundant).
Then we come back to the lack of trade assets. OK, let’s just give Rubio the ball and let magic happen.
Huge SG draft coming up
Let’s be patient
6 solid SG’s that should fall between 7-24. Picks will be able to be had in that range
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
No. I'm on the other side of Snp on this
but no. No more pretty pony draft picks. How much more patient do you want me to be? I’ve watched a team every night that has won 32 games in 2 seasons. I’m not putting more hope is some marginal draft pick. Every year, it’s going to be the draft. Every year, it’s: someone good will be there. Every year, we overvalue these guys in the draft.
Enough. Find a way to get another good NBA player. That’s how you win.
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Dec 28, 2011 3:56 PM CST up reply actions
The way to do that without great assets=draft
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Either this thing is going to take time, with the right people in place
Or it’s gonna be a rush job that probably will not amount to anything anyways
Look how long it’s taken Indiana to make the climb? They initially did the rush job and then realized that wasn’t the right way to do it, but they’ve had to piece together picks in the 7-17 and slowly but surely they’ve built a team that’s a contender for the 4th or 5th best team in the East
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
It has taken time
A lot of time. They’ve had more than enough time. They’ve had more than enough assets.
So, what does that mean then?
I’m not trying to give the administration a pass, but just from a basketball building perspective….the draft+time is really all we got
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
They don't have a pick this year
Yes, they may be able to trade a player for a decent pick. But why would that team want the Wolves’ dreck, when they can temporarily hope that their own pick will be the next LeBron?
If they wait until the 2013 draft to improve (odds are that pick won’t even be a starter, if recent drafts are any indication), Kevin Love will be picking out homes in Malibu by that time.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
So give me a better suggestion
Spurs did get the 15th pick in the draft last year for a back up pg.
I realize the draft was weak and the back up pg pretty good, but it’s not like you need a starter to get mid round draft picks
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
They need to go
in the other direction. Give up anybody but Love or Rubio, and take back a bad contract along with the veteran player they really want. They have a ton of cap room after next season (especially since they don’t have a pick to pay next year, and won’t exactly have to outbid anybody for Beasley, etc.).
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
They might get a pick, mightn't they?
Now there’s a new word Kahn can use.
"I don't think I've ever seen a group that is as good at turning the ball over as this one." Rick Adelman
You mean from a future trade,
or a conditional past one?
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
a past one
Don’t we get Utah’s #1 from the Big Al trade? I’m too lazy to look it up
"I don't think I've ever seen a group that is as good at turning the ball over as this one." Rick Adelman
I was wondering the same.
I know it’s lotto protected though
I think
*The Utah Pick
Contrary to varying reports, the first-round pick Minnesota receives from Philly through Utah does not involve the New York Knicks. For the Wolves, the pick is protected in this manner: 2009 (22); 2010 (15); 2011 (17); 2012 (16); 2013 (16). If in the very unlikely case Utah struggles mightily for five years, Minnesota receives a second-round selection and significant cash considerations.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Utah has started tanking already
To preserve the pick. There should be rules against that.
maybe Tyrone Corbin
Sucks as a coach but I can the Jazz turning it around but they need to move Jefferson, milsap and start running
by tallandthicks on Dec 29, 2011 5:37 AM CST up reply actions
Still waiting
for it . . .
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
SnP
You’ve dropped some good hints here. But straight-up, do you think the Wolves will make a move for a real SG before the deadline?
As I mentioned elsewhere, it just seems like the season is on hold until that happens. And with Adelman being older and Love approaching FA, I don’t feel like they can just flush another year down the toilet waiting for a window that never happens or a draft that results in a bag of dog sh*t.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Dec 28, 2011 11:06 PM CST up reply actions
Sorry - I'm just a big grumpy
because all the problems we’ve been discussing the last few days have been plainly obvious for the entire offseason. So it leads you down a path for very unappetizing alternatives
- FO does not see massize holes and duplication in roster
- FO thinks there might be a problem but wants to wait to find out for sure
- FO wants to make changes but does not have Glen’s approval (financial or otherwise)
- FO wants to make changes but cannot find another team willing to tango
All of these leave a fan feeling powerless (as usual) and worried they are again following a rudderless ship.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Dec 28, 2011 11:08 PM CST up reply actions
I'd trade for IGGY
he’s the guy we need Iguodala not K-mart
give them Beasley and Williams… just get it done before Collins makes Iggy shoot too much
by tallandthicks on Dec 29, 2011 5:42 AM CST up reply actions
Plainly obvious for this one offseason would be almost acceptable.
The lockout, you know? But these problems? What about this wasn’t true the day we dealt Foye and Miller for the #5 pick?
FO does not see massize holes and duplication in roster
Okay, so Anthony Randolph is occupying Oleksy Pecherov’s seat on the bench amid our cache of power forward talent. Same damn roster problem. We have bad, shaky wings.
Adelman might easily do what Rambis did before him and start Damien Wilkins for this team. If he had the equivalent veteran at the two guard, he’d do it, wouldn’t he?
"Opinion ...a confession."
i definitely think they're more "win now" than they're letting on
i have no clue how that will play out. my best guess is that there is some friction involving crawford (team adelman) and webster (not amnestied—kahn wanting to wait for him). i dont know how that will play out.
Martell Webster is a nice guy. You don't fail to make significant roster advances
because you’re waiting on Martell Webster. I don’t think that’s what’s going on.
"Opinion ...a confession."
Glen's wallet
+ Kahn not willing to admit one more personnel error = Webster stays.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
How many games
Does Love, Rubio and “the veteran player they really want” win? Unless that guy’s name is Dwight, you’re probably sitting at 40-45 games and I don’t think I’m exaggerating here.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
How many games
Do Love, Rubio, and NOT “the veteran player they really want” win? You’re probably sitting at a lot less than 40-45, and I’m pretty sure I’m not exaggerating here.
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Dec 28, 2011 8:54 PM CST up reply actions
This is true
But they had someone who knew how to evaluate talent. Unfortunately, we don’t.
"I don't think I've ever seen a group that is as good at turning the ball over as this one." Rick Adelman
I go back and forth
On one hand, as a general philosophy, teams like the Wolves have to be in the lotto as much as possible until they get The Guy. On the other hand, I think it is highly likely that they need to do whatever they can to surround Love with another good player before he bolts. Teams like the Wolves have limited access to awesome players. The draft is pretty much their only option in a general sense, but I’d cash out Rubio and Williams for, say, Deron Williams or even Eric Gordon.
How about this: Never turn down a chance to get an awesome player. If they can finagle a trade this year to get an awesome player, great. I just think that far more often than not the draft is where’s its at.
Why do we argue so much?
Almost everything you’ve said here is pretty much exactly what I think about building a team.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Good lord man
General philosophy>be in the lotto as much as possible till they find the guy (I say this all the time)
Draft is only option in the general sense
I would cash them out for Deron Williams, don’t think I’d do both Rubio and Williams for Gordon but would absolutely do a package of Williams plus others
Never turn down a chance to get an awesome player
Far more often than not the draft is where it’s at.
You don’t agree that these are basically what I preach when it comes to building a club?
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
And what about them disagrees with the points made above?
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Execpt they have no pick, which means they aren't going to be high in draft almost no matter what
And besides, I’m sick of losing. Rubio is unusual in that he might be a rookie that actually helps you win, but he’s been a professional for years. However good the player you get at number 16 turns out to be, he isn’t helping you when you need help, which is right freaking now.
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Dec 28, 2011 4:04 PM CST up reply actions
What are you suggesting?
I don’t think anyone wants to not win now, what the heck does that even look like?
I would much rather try and get an A.I. than the 11th pick in the draft, but I can almost certainly bet the 11th pick in the draft is much easier to acquire and could, in this coming draft, absolutely net us a really solid 2 guard
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I have no idea what is possible to acquire and what isn't
and neither do you.
I also seriously question the contention that a late lottery pick will turn into a really solid 2 guard. It rarely does. And besides, even if it does, it’s 2-3 years down the road.
We’ve kicked the can so much there is about no can left. Rubio and Adelman maybe buy a few months more of can kicking, but they need another good player. I don’t know how to get him; perhaps there’s a salary dump somewhere, perhaps Williams has some value (and they should have traded that pick).
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Dec 28, 2011 4:11 PM CST up reply actions
So how is it exactly you think a franchise should be built?
You seem to completely disregard high draft picks (wanting to trade Williams for a fairly okay NBA starter), you don’t think that an 11th pick in the draft could turn out to be a really good wing, especially in a super deep draft for both players in general and SGs.
It sounds like you are really jacked up about getting a team full of average NBA starters. Which I guess is better than what we have, but I’m not sure how much
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
How so?
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I'm not sure me explaining it will help but here goes:
You have a tendency to respond to people as if they said things they didn’t actually say. This happens a lot. EiM doesn’t completely disregard high draft picks. Him believing, say, that the chances of the 11th pick not creating immediate dividends for a team that needs immediate dividends does not jive with your take on his thoughts. He is not “jacked up about getting a team full of average NBA starters.” You are arguing with things nobody is saying and that works against you not infrequently.
Don't you think you are doing the same thing with me right now though?
Let’s use the 11th pick thing for an example cause it’s a good one.
Isn’t him disregarding my interest in getting the 11th pick in the draft the exact same thing as what you are saying? My interesting in trying to get a late-lotto/mid-round pick doesn’t jive with him,
“but no. No more pretty pony draft picks. How much more patient do you want me to be? I’ve watched a team every night that has won 32 games in 2 seasons. I’m not putting more hope is some marginal draft pick. Every year, it’s going to be the draft. Every year, it’s: someone good will be there. Every year, we overvalue these guys in the draft.”
This was his response to my suggestion that trading into the draft is the most likely way to get an effective 2 guard…..which whether he likes it or not is probably the best way for us to get a 2 guard who is good.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
No
You just made up what you wanted to hear in EiM’s argument and responded to that instead of what he actually wrote.
He’s making an argument based on odds. The odds are in the favor of the 11th pick being a marginal player who won’t contribute right away.
I agree that the draft is the best way to get an effective 2 guard and that teams like the Wolves should throw everything they have into having a state of the art draft operation, but he seems to be clearly arguing for a trade for an established good NBA player who can help them win immediately instead of trading into a draft they’re not already in.
More or less
Look:
The Wolves have sucked, and I’m sick of losing. I want to see good basketball.
a) The Wolves have no draft pick this year.
b) having squandered a ton of assets, they have limited opportunities.
c) we overvalue draft picks. As you rightly argued, the odds are against any pick the Wolves are able to acquire (using some of the remaining precious resources) actually being able to help.
d) You know who you get with a late lottery pick? Gerald Henderson, usually. Who now, in his 3rd season, might actually become something marginally useful, and this is after a full college career.
e) Do things. Don’t wait around. Patience is a virtue only up to a point. Try your best right now. Put together the best team you can right now. Win some freaking games.
f) Worry about whether you can vault yourself to championship level when that is actually something even vaguely on the horizon, as opposed to something in the next universe over.
g) when the draft comes, make the best use of it you can. Whether that’s acquiring picks, or trading them. Using the ones you have, or making a deal. THE DRAFT isn’t something outside of the rest of the basketball operation. It should be approached like any other asset or potential asset.
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Dec 28, 2011 7:50 PM CST up reply actions
Except that every draft is different
And apparently someone other than Kahn and McHale is in charge of personnel decisions now.
Even the Canis draft board would have us sitting with one of the most talented rosters in the league. It’s not that we as fans overvalue draft picks, it’s that we had awful decision makers behind the wheel. Next year’s draft has the potential to be one of the best in years. It should be a far cry from those in the past, and it’s especially stocked with the types of players the Wolves need: impact defensive bigs and SG’s who can create shots.
Every draft should be evaluated in a vacuum, and this one could be huge. We’re talking about Davis, Barnes (overrated, but I hope he goes high), PJ3, Sullinger, MKG, Lamb, Beal, Drummond, Henson, Quincy Miller, Terrence Jones etc. all potentially coming out. It’s entirely possible that we could land a SG prospect who would have been top 3-5 quality in any of the last 3 drafts, at pick 10.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
How do we get
pick 10, again?
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
How?
Build up Derrick Williams value and trade him. Give him enough minutes and let him run with Ricky and he’s going to put up points.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
How does this help?
I mean, I guess if your main concern is positional, trading Williams for a more or less similar talent at the 2 makes some sense. But it delays us AGAIN.
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Dec 28, 2011 9:18 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, it does
And I know it sucks, because we all want to watch GOOD ball, but what’s the point if all that waiting culminates in a 7th-8th seed team?
We’re competing with teams like OKC whose top 3 players would all arguably the best on our team or LAC whose top 2 are legit superstars. I’ve been accused of overrating Harden, but I think he’s a 20/5/5 guy on this team and is legitimately in the conversation for best player on our team. A Love, Rubio + borderline all-star vet isn’t getting us past the 2nd round.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
This isn't going to change
EiM’s mind on this.
And quite frankly, in the midst of a 17 game losing streak, I think it’s time to worry about actually winning games instead of winning championships.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Ok
Why not trade Love for Pierce, Rubio for Ray Felton and Derrick Williams for David West. Hey, now we can win 42 games (in a regular season, of course) and everyone is happy… for 2 years.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
Which is about how long
you can expect Kevin Love to play for this team if they don’t improve in a hurry.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Ha
He’ll follow the money like everyone else. Who was the last player who skipped out on his rookie extension to skip teams?
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
He might enjoy
not playing on the worst team in the NBA for a while.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
the new cba doesnt provide that big of a home team incentive
he can make up most of the differences if he went to florida or texas or another state with low or no income taxes. plus, i think he is good to go with money. he grew up financially secure and i really think he is more about winning with, say, 60 mil than he is losing with 75.
I may be wrong here
But it’s an extra year and what, 7% raises over 3 or 4% raises? Hard to imagine he turns that down. They all claim to be about winning, but just like everything in this country it’s about the benjamins. The guys who skip out do it after their rookie extensions are over.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
that extra year is meaningless...
….if you are 24 and can stay healthy for another deal. he can still be about the benjamins and leave the relatively high tax state of minnesota. i dont have any problem imagining him leaving. i hope he doesnt but it would hardly be a stupid decison financially.
Educate me
How much does he leave on the table by leaving? I have a spotty memory compared to you guys, so please also tell me the last max level guy who left after his rookie deal expired.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
Asch...
…covers it here:
http://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/steve_aschburner/11/26/cba-deal/index.html
They have a 3% advantage on the hometown discount every year. That can easily be wiped out by state tax differences. The extra year is enticing and I’m sure that most guys who want out will try their best to force a sign and trade in order to maintain Bird rights.
Thanks
That’s what I thought. Still seems risky to give up an extra year. You can say he’s 24 and can stay healthy, but I’m sure he and his agent know that’s no guarantee.
I don’t mean to sound like I’m speaking in certainties. Him leaving is a possibility, but it doesn’t seem like the most likely one.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
2003
through 2004.
At least we were around to see it.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Those few words
are better than the the few thousand I used to express my sentiment.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
i go back and forth on the draft
on one hand, teams like the wolves can only get players like kg and love in the draft (of course, let’s not forget that love was traded for on draft night). if you dont have one of these guys, you dont win and getting in the lotto as many times as possible should be the main goal of the franchise.
on the other hand, the draft is a crap shoot with the top pick being the only real sure bet (or very close to it). every spot out of the top 5 is overvalued. even top 5 picks can be screwed up and are not even bankable at a high clip.
the more i read about the draft, and the way in which love continues to improve, the more i think they need to trade williams before he loses any more luster. they already waited too long with johnson. would nola listen to a williams and johnson for gordon deal? dunno. i do think that theyve had their luck in the lotto with love and now is the time to start moving all of those assets we’ve heard so much about…if that is still possible.
But the Wolves are NOT competing with OKC
that’s my point. We are a million miles away from there. But I’ll let this argument go now; we’ve had it before and nobody wants to read it again.
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Dec 28, 2011 9:27 PM CST up reply actions
But they never will
Ever, if they can’t field a lineup that approaches the same talen stratosphere that the OKCs, LACs or even PDXs are fielding.
Are you so desperate for competent ball that you’ll settle for another run of 8th seeds before fizzling out and rebuilding again? I would rather suck it up and hope to eventually attain more lofty heights. It might not happen, but 8th seed ball is almost as bad as 17 win ball in my opinion.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
I feel very confident
in stating that the difference between a 17 (and counting!) game losing streak and an NBA championship is not going to be solved by trading Derrick Williams for Brad Beal.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
So it's going to be solved
by trading for who? Andre Iguodala?
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
They will be closer
sooner with Andre Iguodala now than they will be waiting for an undersized 18 year old SG to fall to them at the 10th pick of the draft.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Wait--
Build up the value of the #2 pick so that one year later you can trade it for the #10 pick?
Then what—build up the player picked at #10 so you can trade him a year later for the #20 pick?
I need you to find David Kahn, take a picture of the two of you together, and then post it in this thread so you can prove that you are not him.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Oh come on PD
Draft spot is irrelevant once the player has been picked. The value of that pick is now entirely linked to the player chosen at that spot, not the pick used on him. The #2 is now Derrick Williams. He is not equivalent to Kevin Durant because he was a #2 pick, he is equivalent to Derrick Williams, who is equivalent to a talented scoring PF who doesn’t project to be a plus defender, rebounder or passer. We already have one of those who is also an elite rebounder.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
Or it's more likely IMO that
many of those guys you list do not become stars.
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Dec 28, 2011 9:17 PM CST up reply actions
Of course
But they will get picked, just like guys like Wes get picked. I will guarantee you right now that Harrison Barnes goes between 5-10 picks too high, but that’s what will happen because of the hype machine. Shorter, less hyped guys like like Brad Beal (who is an absolute stud) will drop.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
So if Brad Beal is
an “absolute stud”, why will he still be available at the 10 pick?
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Why was Curry available where he went? Why did Wade fall to where he went?
Why did CP3 fall? Why did Durant go #2? Why did Roy fall?
GM’s are dumb. There are what, 30 of them, and how many of them would you consider above average at their jobs? The Canis draft board outperforms the NBA just about every year.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
Those are interesting names to choose
in that none of those good-to-great players have come even close to a championship yet, except for Wade, and he has only neared or reached that goal when accompanied by two of the greatest players in the history of the NBA.
And neither Shaq nor LBJ were drafted by Miami.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Jeremy Lamb is also a stud
Really like that guy. I probably take him over Beal given Lamb’s ridiculous length and proven experience, but Beal is going to be a great player.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
It is. Can't argue there.
But I also don’t think that you can’t argue that every draft isn’t its own insular environment. If you disagree on the talent level of next year’s, I get it, but this isn’t the Wes Johnson crap pile. This is a draft with real, starter-caliber players at every position.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
but that still doesnt remove the odds
the chances of the wolves even making a good deal to get in this draft arent that hot. the chances of them getting a high pick are less. the chances of that pick being a starter are….well, we’re dealing with some long odds already.
So...
What do we do then? Because there isn’t that much talent on this team, despite our newly stoked optimism. Our best player is a 4 and our second most exciting player is also a 4. Yay.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
i was a trade for bismack guy...
…so im not tied to williams (who also had to be the pick in terms of value) but i think they need to call nola (gordon), houston (martin), and the nets (d will) to see what type of deall it would take to get one of those players. ideally they keep rubio but im not against throwing him into a bigger deal. love is who they have to build around. i think the clock is ticking faster than we’d like to believe and if he goes, there go another 5 years of rebuilding time.
Best case still is that Dwill produces
and builds up his value. I know this isn’t a given, but I DO feel that he’s a talented player, he’s just a poor fit. If that’s the case, hopefully he can be moved for a piece of somewhat equal talent that is a better fit. I’m not tied to the draft by any means (I just think it’s a valid option given next year’s strength) so I’m all for going after Gordon. A Rubio, Gordon, Love trio does make me excited.
If Dwill exhibits excellent off-ball scoring abilites I’d also talk to OKC about Harden. I highly highly doubt they break up their core given their success, but he could be a great cog in that system.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
Hell
After watching Westbrook and Durant last night I’d make a call to OKC. Getting Westbrook might make Love think twice about leaving.
by Vandelay Ind. on Dec 29, 2011 8:29 AM CST up reply actions
You are missing a great PHI-PHX game.
It looks like the preseason will be longer than 2 games. Likely 2 weeks.
Reduce turnovers, reduce personal fouls, shoot better, win.
30 points huh
Jeez.
If I had to guess, before looking at the box score, Evan Turner is doing well. Could be wrong, but he was too smart too be as bad as he was for long.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
he seems to need the ball in his hands to produce
he’s tied to high usage. the biggest lesson on the hoopus draft board that year was to better project for possible nba position. he could never reproduce his osu role in the pros and that was fairly obvious looking back at things.
His offense was definitely tied to it
But he was a good rebounder, passer and defender. Even if he can’t adjust to not dominating the ball like he did in college he should be able to translate some of his all-around game. So far he’s looked pretty good this season.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
VM
Most of your disagreements with people seem to stem from your welcome-but-usually-misplaced optimism. This is one of those cases.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
What else is there though?
You all are telling me that trying to trade back into the draft is not an option, what else is there?
If Kevin martin can literally be had for Wes, Peck, Randolph. Yes. Let’s do it.
Ex. After his pretty subpar rookie season it was a known fact that we turned down Flynn for the 10th pick in the draft.
Weird crap happens in the NBA, especially in the 8-17 range of the draft. You never know what role player (ridnour for starters) could be valued in this range.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Odds matter
Throw out any names in the draft. Over the course of NBA history, each pick location has developed a track record of documented NBA performance. By looking back at the careers of, say, all the #3 picks in the NBA draft we can start to build expected performance models like this one.
Here are all the #11 picks.
Looking at the expected performance of #11 picks, we can see that the most likely outcome is a deep bench player. Followed next by role player…which is twice as likely an outcome as a star or solid player.
Yes, weird crap happens but more often than not, predictable crap happens.
Seems a bit condescending
To pretend you and those who agree with you are the arbiters of Timberwolf truth. There are some undeniable facts about our beloved franchise, but the need to move what paltry assets we have for Joe vet SG is not one of them. That is an opinion, as is the idea that the players who can help this team are currently residing in the NCAA. I happen to find Eric’s desire to fast-track us to 40 wins at the expense of the future to be rather undesirable.
I understand where he is coming from and we have long disagreed on team building philosophy so I don’t expect to change his mind, but I also don’t Love or Ricky is The Man and that we are fairly screwed until we find a significantly above average perimeter scorer. There are some guys in the NBA, more than usuak I would say, who could be that guy. I would wait another year or two if we can find a way to draft Brad Beal.
Apologies in advance for any cell-induced typos..
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
by Xand1 on Dec 28, 2011 5:22 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Yea, pretty much that guy
Funny story: my brother actually saw him at a restaurant in New York a few months ago. He was not drinking Dos Equis.
Anyway, I define “The Man” as the best player on a competitive team.
I think Love is great and his statistical accomplishments are incredible, but if he’s your best player I don’t think you’re going deep in the playoffs. I also think Rubio is awesome and have been touting him to people around the Twin Cities for something like 4+ years, but again, I don’t think he’s a guy who can lead you through a 7 game series.
The team needs one guy who can put his head down and make “winning plays” as Jim Pete calls them, when all odds are stacked against the team. I don’t see anyone on the team capable of doing this at the moment. I think Love and Rubio are awesome supporting players, but we’re still missing that last piece. It doesn’t have to be LeBron, given the quality of our #2 and 3 guys, but we need a Ray Allen, or Paul Pierce etc.
I suppose I’m an eternal optimist who always sees hope in the draft. Then again, my draft record would have us sitting with Curry and Cousins (as well as Roy, Lawson, Jordan and Marc Gasol) so I guess I’m probably living in my head where savvy draft choices are made which is quite a divergence from the awful reality that is Wolves drafting. I guess I’m hoping that the Adelman influence would prevail here.
On the plus side, Ricky’s shooting 66.7% from the floor!
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
Here's a good
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Yeah, read that after he told me he saw him
Turns out he’s pretty darn interesting. Who’d have thought?
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
Except
We wouldn’t have that roster, because any of those would probably have increased are winning percentage. We wouldn’t have been picking in the top six over and over.
by Vandelay Ind. on Dec 29, 2011 8:37 AM CST up reply actions
It's not that he's necessarily wrong
(although I believe he is), it’s that I’ve seen most of his discussions revolve around two points:
1. Michael Beasley is working hard, and is going to be better this year.
2. The Wolves have the ability to trade into the lottery of this draft, and the player they will get with that pick is going to help the Timberwolves get better quickly.
I would argue that all three of those suppositions are wildly optimistic, and I (thought I) stated as such.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Agreed with the right freaking now
I’d be open to them cashing out for Williams or Gordon.
by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 28, 2011 5:02 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Like who
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
by Xand1 on Dec 28, 2011 4:50 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
That was my title
Before I inadvertently hit return.
But yeah, who are you going to get and at what cost? Our roster is either garbage, untradeable or Derrick Williams. I would trade him for a top 10 pick in this draft in a second if guys like Beal, Lamb and Rivers come out. That does about 100x more for me than trading him for someone like Iggy or Monta, personally.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
by Xand1 on Dec 28, 2011 4:54 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Iggy yes, Monta no
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Is Barea Still Hurt?
He only played 19 minutes.
Yes, he’s new, but it was disappointing to see Ridnour out there for 34 minutes.
by righteousindignation on Dec 28, 2011 12:39 PM CST reply actions
barea got hurt
yesterday during the second half that’s why he played so little.
quad thing, hopefully nothing serious, but if he pulled it, that’s 10 days out right there.
CHILL OUT
1 close loss to a NBA title favorite and a sloppy mess on the other end of a back to back to open the season and you’re all suicidal. I know Minnesota winters are tough, but good lord people…
by Dr_Defecate on Dec 28, 2011 12:46 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Haven't you noticed?
Being suuicidal is the norm around here.
"I don't think I've ever seen a group that is as good at turning the ball over as this one." Rick Adelman
And we
can’t even do THAT correctly.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
lol
I meant suicidal.
"I don't think I've ever seen a group that is as good at turning the ball over as this one." Rick Adelman
Naw,
I meant we can’t just end it all—we keep coming back for more of the same.
But if one REALLY feels like killing oneself, one should contact 800-273-TALK.
Tell ’em PoorDick sentchya!
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Nothing like Dr. Defecate..
..to brighten the mood!
It's funny...
Nothing like Dr. Defecate….to brighten the mood!
…how those two little letters “Dr.” can add such weight to one’s posts. Although Defecate can take away some of the gravitas I suppose (unless it’s pronounced Deff-eh-Cah-Tay)
I knew a kid growing up named Larry Poops and I thought that was hilarious. Who would name their boy Larry??
I'm a very tough guy on the internet
by Son of Gerald Green on Dec 28, 2011 8:12 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Besides, what do you want us to do?
Cheer the 19 turnovers per game?
Applaud the 42.7% shooting?
Drool over the 18 assists per game?
or the 101 points given up per game?
If anyone has reason to vent, it’s long suffering Wolves fans. And they can continue to vent, until they see some positive changes, for once.
"I don't think I've ever seen a group that is as good at turning the ball over as this one." Rick Adelman
It's been too warm....
…. to chill out. Not even cool enuff to chill my beer on the porch.
The first third of the season will be an extended pre-season and practice sessions for this team. I look forward to the latter 2/3’s.
P.S. – You want to read teeth-gnashing, go to DailyNorseman.
I abhor MN winters
But it’s been rather delightful this year.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
get use to it man
global warming/climate change means these lame winters are here to stay. I say that as CC skier in southeast Minnesota :(
by tallandthicks on Dec 29, 2011 5:47 AM CST up reply actions
i visited my cousin in eveleth last week
no snow and 45. i ran on the lakeshore in duluth in shorts and a longsleeve shirt. weird weather.
KC
We’ve just had a lot of rain and 35-55 temps. Heading back to the motherland in a few weeks and begging for some cold.
by Vandelay Ind. on Dec 29, 2011 9:39 AM CST up reply actions
I love KC
I’m trying to find a good 5k there in spring. I want to run a race and then go to Oklahoma Joe’s.
I prefer
RJ’s myself. I’m planning on doing one of the half marathons here in the spring. I think they have a pretty decent Wizard of Oz themed race that everyone seems to get into.
by Vandelay Ind. on Dec 29, 2011 2:43 PM CST up reply actions
Ah
I have yet to make it to Stroud’s. Give me a shout next time you come in town.
by Vandelay Ind. on Dec 29, 2011 4:35 PM CST up reply actions
That was their first victory of the year, including preseason
can you imagine how their fans must have been lambasting them? If they had lost to us last night, there might have been a riot on State street.
"I don't think I've ever seen a group that is as good at turning the ball over as this one." Rick Adelman
good
Madtown has better things to riot about
I'm avid basketball fan and Manager of a little known team (tallandthicks) on little known internet based basketball manager site charazay. trust me I love this game
by tallandthicks on Dec 29, 2011 8:20 AM CST up reply actions
canyou guys still vote or is that gone now too....
….without proof of birth certificate and baby footprints?
Anyone remember "Twinkle Toes" Antoine Walker?
Evelyn Lozada, galpal of New England Patriots [team stats] wide receiver Chad Ochocinco, is being sued in bankruptcy court for allegedly helping her former fiance, ex-Celtic captain Antoine Walker, blow through the fortune he made in the NBA.
Lozada, star of VH1’s "Basketball Wives," is being accused of taking something in the neighborhood of $560,000 from Walker, who made more than $110 million during his basketball career but squandered it all — and then some. Now the bankruptcy trustee wants Lozada to pony up the $560K — plus interest, attorneys’ fees and costs — so it can be returned to ’Toine’s creditors.
According to the suit, Walker made more than $110 million during his 13-year career, not including endorsements and other business ventures, but he lived "paycheck to paycheck."
==
Since we are reflecting on our Wolves past….
Where there is a D-Williams, there is a way
Walker tells you what happened with his money
http://www.terezowens.com/antoine-walkers-gambling-habit-influenced-by-michael-jordan/
A lot of these players do not have people close to them that have taught them how to say no.
I can predict the future using Norm Van Lier's crystal balls.
"Sam has a tendency to denigrate reports coming from any reporter who didn’t also cover the day Naismith first put up the peach baskets." - snley
by NBA Observer on Dec 28, 2011 3:44 PM CST up reply actions
"Since we are reflecting on our Wolves past..."
Ladies and gentlemen, Ricky Buckets!!!
http://www.nba.com/dleague/news/former_celtic_star_ricky_davis_red_claws_2011_12_28.html
"Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously."
— Hunter S. Thompson
Yes!
We can pair him with Greg Ostertag to be the 2 and 5 we need.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
2 guard, random whining
I will be stuck on this for the rest of the year. We have no 2 guard, we passed on Marshon Brooks twice. He has 10, and 17 points in limited minutes off the bench for the Nets so far. Just sayin.
by Darth Tugits on Dec 28, 2011 1:23 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Can I ask...
Why we run Beasley ISO so much? Its seems like against OKC we didnt run him ISO and we did well. Last night we ran him ISO and got killed. I think the offense flows better when we do all the hand offs that Adelman had in the OKC game.
Also, is it me or was there a big differenc ein strategy last night vs OKC game?
by bringbackbrewer on Dec 28, 2011 1:29 PM CST reply actions
I wondered the same thing
Everyone (myself included) bitches about Beasley’s ISOs. They stop the offensive flow. Now that the wolves have players who can run pick n roll (Rubio & Barea), how about running some PnR with Beasley. They need his offensive production… there is no one else on this roster who can score like Beasley.
Maybe Beasley can’t run PnR. Time to learn.
by Stabby Stabby on Dec 28, 2011 1:47 PM CST up reply actions
Adelman likes giving Beas iso's, according to his interviews
The Webber quote comes to mind, “Adelman will give you rope to play…or to hang yourself.” I think Rick wants to see what Beasley can do. If Beas can become a reliable ISO guy within the flow of the offense, that’ll be huge for this team. Look no further than last night – a few buckets by Beas when the team can’t buy a shot would change the complexion of the game. Problem is Beasley is struggling right now with both how to be an ISO guy AND how to do it within the flow of the offense. Watching KD and Westbrook do it was pretty awesome. It’ll be interesting to see whether Beasley is still doing the same thing in 18 games.
by Dr. Wolfenstein on Dec 28, 2011 6:29 PM CST up reply actions
Bigger, faster, stronger opponents
Every player (except the few true great ones) rises from the time they pick up a ball until they reach that reality. Then they learn to perform within or despite their limits or they fizzle. I think Beasley just can’t get over that hurdle, he still feels he can out one on one anyone, but then he misses the shot, gets picked, gets blocked, or gets called for the foul and he is surprised, confused, and frustrated.
by pastyearsears on Dec 28, 2011 6:44 PM CST up reply actions
Seems like Porter really doesn't have a clue
There were too many times the offense went stagnant with either Beaz or Luke going rouge on the rest of the team.
You crazy car, I don't know wether to eat you or kiss you
by John Truckasauras on Dec 28, 2011 1:56 PM CST up reply actions
I hate it..
..when players go rouge.
It never matches the uniforms.
Heh.
That’s one word, like “tongue,” that just effs people up. It’s like they don’t know that they don’t know how to spell it until they get there, and then they just barf something out. It’s like in the steeplechase when you see some dude faceplant in the water.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Dec 28, 2011 3:00 PM CST up reply actions
Beasley has run ISOs his whole life
And he was good at it. However, what is different about his NBA approach is he doesn’t follow his shots. He picked up tons of boards in high school and college by getting open, putting up a jumper, and then following his shot all the way to the rim to just put it back.
What his shots next game? He isn’t crashing the glass anymore on his shots and he isn’t even boxed out.
I can predict the future using Norm Van Lier's crystal balls.
"Sam has a tendency to denigrate reports coming from any reporter who didn’t also cover the day Naismith first put up the peach baskets." - snley
by NBA Observer on Dec 28, 2011 3:55 PM CST up reply actions
They did
The Wolves could break the streak at Atlanta on January 14th. They play Cleveland at home on the 6th.
Oye
I wonder how much less likely Love is to stay if/when the Wolves break the record. %
Or maybe not.
by Vandelay Ind. on Dec 28, 2011 1:51 PM CST up reply actions
Dallas and San Antonio at home this weekend
We’re going to lay the hammer on these teams. Back to back.
Beasley's attitude was the biggest killer for me last night...
He’s an incredibly gifted athlete who’s dominated physically inferior competition his entire life and now that he’s finally reached a level where he’s struggling, he rolls over…when things don’t go his way, he pouts. I really like the kid but he’s gotta grow up, he could be something special. I know I’m late to the party but for the first time I’m doubting whether or not he’ll be able to put it together.
by LosAngelesTWolf on Dec 28, 2011 1:53 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Still young
Thankfully. Its too bad that he still pouts and, to use a poker analogy, plays on tilt when things aren’t going right.
Maybe coming off the bench would be a good thing? Could have the reverse effect though…
by Stabby Stabby on Dec 28, 2011 2:35 PM CST up reply actions
Beasley did get some coaching in
Told Darko to “play defense”.
I can predict the future using Norm Van Lier's crystal balls.
"Sam has a tendency to denigrate reports coming from any reporter who didn’t also cover the day Naismith first put up the peach baskets." - snley
by NBA Observer on Dec 28, 2011 3:56 PM CST up reply actions
I will trust that Adelman will come up with a respectable starting lineup.
Rubio and Love are the only players certain to be in that lineup.
Reduce turnovers, reduce personal fouls, shoot better, win.
So we're going 2 on 5?
I wonder how many rebounds Love would get then? You’d have to think there’d be less opponent misses, but he also wouldn’t have to worry about boxing out for teammates.
There would also be much less teammate rebounds to be had
Beasley and his bricks are almost as responsible for Loves incredible rebounding numbers as Love himself.
"I don't think I've ever seen a group that is as good at turning the ball over as this one." Rick Adelman
Those aren't "bricks"
they are “Backboard Passes.”
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Now you're on to something
One guy shoots, three guys block for KLove, and he gets the put backs.
by pastyearsears on Dec 28, 2011 6:47 PM CST up reply actions
Do airballs count as rebounds?
Throw a few of those in as well
"I don't think I've ever seen a group that is as good at turning the ball over as this one." Rick Adelman
he also wouldn’t have to worry about boxing outforteammates
by Ray Williams? on Dec 28, 2011 6:51 PM CST up reply actions
Just to add to the general grumpiness
Malcolm is our great hope until he gets out on the floor. Of those six 2guards the Wolves won’t be in the running for in the next draft, one will likely be great, another will end up pretty okay, and the other four will range from occasionally brilliant but mostly under average to Wes Johnson like.
Thoughts on Wes (while watching Raptors-Pacers)
1. Rasaul Butler has a very similar game to Wes. In fact, I don’t think one can find a better NBA comparison for him.
2. Paul George is the player Wes was projected to be, with a bit more athleticism.
3. When mediocre teams like the Raps and Pacers go two deep at shooting guard, it’s a little scary than we only have one true SG on our roster.
4. Barbosa would not be a bad guy to trade for. A Rubio-Barbosa starting backcourt would be a lot of fun.
I've always
had a soft-spot for Barbosa. Now we could only get the Raps to toss in Jonas V….
by Dr. Wolfenstein on Dec 28, 2011 7:03 PM CST up reply actions
Close
But I tried adding Lee’s preseason performance this year, to Martel’s last year plus Wes’s smile and Wayne’s triple threat stance; but then I subtracted Ricky’s bewildered look camping on the wing while Luke ran the offense and JJ’s fierce ‘Punto-like’ dives into Milwaukee belly buttons and I came up a little short.
Oopps!
Meant this as a reply to Vlade above.
by pastyearsears on Dec 28, 2011 7:53 PM CST up reply actions
Friendly reminder
That James Anderson is helping the Spurs crush the Clippers right now. Martell Webster’s back is helping some orthopedic surgeon crush the tables at Canterbury.
HOORAY!
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
Some interesting results tonight
The Hornets blew out the Celtics without Gordon (no Pierce for the Cs). The Bobs had Miami on the ropes but lost by 1 despite turning it over twice as much and going -12 on FTAs. They crushed the O-glass, though, and Miami made 1 three all night. Wade bailed them out with the game winner at the end.
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Dec 28, 2011 9:43 PM CST up reply actions
The preseason continues into the season.
Reduce turnovers, reduce personal fouls, shoot better, win.
Lockouts do weird things
The effect already seems to be making every game worth watching. I’m trying to take advanage of the free league pass by randomly tuning in no matter how uninteresting the matchup sounds.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
Broadband is finally working, and the quality is good
but at least for the game I’ve been watching (SA-LAC), it’s about 10-15 minutes behind real time. Don’t know if that’s just a one off, or a consistent problem.
The Celtics are thin and old.
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Dec 28, 2011 9:46 PM CST up reply actions
Did you try pressing that "live" button/link to the right?
I was having that issue but the live button jumps you up almost to exactly real time.
I was impressed with the LPBB features. Especially that 4-way split screen.
About these Celtics, when and how do the Wolves bring KG back for the Minnesota Retirement Tour, defending next to Love for 22 minutes/game and teaching winning habits? Would the Celtics take back every bad Wolves contract (Luke/Wes/Darko/Pek) if we gave them Williams? Would that be a colossal waste of a #2 Pick? Would it be wise, nonetheless?
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
So, we'd basically be drafting an old Garnett at #2?
Hell, I’ve heard worse.
Live And Stupid From England
KG when I came to the states had shit and then a really old team that when almost to finals. I’d say if he found his prime again he’d have best he ever had around him albeit 8/9 years too late
by tallandthicks on Dec 29, 2011 7:06 AM CST up reply actions
I agree with this completely.
I thought at the beginning of the season it would be “save yourselves for the playoffs.” Instead, it feels much more like a playoff atmosphere than any December I can remember, as established teams are trying to see if they still have it, and the up-and-comers want to see what they’ve got.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Watching Warriors Knicks and wondering
Whether we could have offered Indiana something better than Lou Amundson for Brandon Rush. Is he my ideal SG? No, but he’s looking better than the alternative, and shuffling the deck chairs is a noble goal when the endpoint is roster balance.
They probably noticed
that they already had his equivalent on the roster?
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Again, it's roster balance
Rush is a legitimate SG with questionable handles for that position, but who shoots better than Johnson ,who is a 3 with especially poor handles for that position.
It is so frustrating
could have easily had him if Taylor had not mandated (one assumes) the trade-down-athon-2011 to pay off Kurt. Could Love leave for lack of a SG & some wins? If so, penny wise, pound foolish.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Dec 29, 2011 1:48 AM CST up reply actions
It was the flying spaghetti monster of buyouts
The noodly appendage touched the entire league.
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Dec 29, 2011 8:00 AM CST up reply actions
Anyone else frustrated with this season already?
Happy for hoops but this season has all the makings of a train wreck.
Teams look so rough. Wish they could have built in less games and more practice/preseason. I know teams will come around, but when they start coming around, the injuries are going to start piling up and guys are going to get worn out.
One another note, it’s crazy how deep the league is. Even the worst teams in the league are stacked with a lot of talent. Was watching GS/Knicks last night and GS (without Curry) has a lot of guys who can score.
Since I had it on my TiVo
I re-watched some of that miserable game to see what actually happened during the second-quarter collapse. A fair amount of it was on Love, who missed an open shot (no problem there), had a bad 3-point-head-fake-miss, had some indecision followed by a turnover (stolen by Jackson), and missed another couple of shots. Throw in a Darko missed hook, a Darko charge, and some Beasley bonehead plays (traveling and charging), and you’ve got yourself a deficit.
I also decided that I already kind of hate that long, loping stride that Williams takes right before he gets called for a charge.
Then I made sure to delete the game so I wouldn’t subject myself to that awfulness ever again.
I think teams are going to figure out
that if you pay attention to Love, stop him from doing his thing, and frustrate him, the rest of the Wolves (especially the Loser Line-Up of Beas, Darko, Wes, and Ridnour) are highly unlikely to beat you. I know he had a 30/20 and all, but he didn’t seem to be himself in that game
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Possible answer to the Q: don't hire Terry Porter as the head coach?
I know this isn’t fair, but in any case I’ll be interested to see how they do with Adelman back at it again. Point won’t be proven until they perform consistently with him on the sides, but it just looked like against the Bucks there were lost without their leader… until the players start taking over that role.
Still have my Foye jersey. Hey- at least she TRIED! :--)
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Canis Hoopus
Related FanShots on Canis Hoopus
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Mike D’Antoni breaks silence on New York Knicks exit: ‘An obstacle had to be removed’
- Adam Morrison looks great, everyone
- Create-a-Caption: Tim Duncan puts some stank on it
- LeBron James won’t even give Lance Stephenson half a bar
- Let’s all hate the Oklahoma City Thunder shirts that take a needless shot at the team’s move from Seattle (PHOTO)
