Trade Anybody-But-Love for Westbrook? (with poll!)
by PoorDick on Dec 29, 2011 9:34 AM CST
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PrintThe recent dust-up with Russell Westbrook of the Thunder is not the first spat between him and his teammates, nor is it likely to the be the last. He's in line for an extension (a la Rose) that he has yet to receive, and there is reasonable suspicion that he prefers the role as The Man, which he will never have on the Thunder as long as Kevin Durant is on the team.
The likely outcome of this is that it will blow over, he will eventually get paid by the Thunder, and they will move on toward their quest for a championship. But if it doesn't, the Wolves would seem to have both the need and the assets that could get a deal done--perhaps Rubio, RickWill, and AR?
Would you trade anybody on the Wolves roster other than Kevin Love for Russell Westbrook?
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My head says yes,
but my heart says no. I just don’t like him.
by Madison Dan on Dec 29, 2011 9:46 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
I don't either
and after a full two regular season games, Ricky Rubio might be my favorite TWolf ever—and I assume Rubio would be just one piece to go to OKC (or somewhere else).
But I’m looking at this from the standpoint of having Love and Westbrook, and winning some games now, versus losing a lot, and then losing Kevin Love, and then Ricky Rubio. We’re a long way from that, I know (well, except for the “losing a lot” part), but Westbrook with the Wolves and Rubio with OKC seems more complementary for both teams. And it allows all the stand-around guys on the Wolves (everybody but Beasley) to actually have a reason for their inactivity, since the Wolves would have a ball-dominant scoring PG.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
No worries with the hypothetical....
It’s not like OKC is going to blow it up when they are favorites to win the West.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
No, they won't
but they will have some interesting salary situations over the next couple years, as they will eventually be paying:
Durant at 18mm
Westbrook at 17mm(?)
Perkins at 9mm
Harden at 10mm(?)
Ibabka at 9mm(?)
That’s a really nice team, but it’s 63mm for five players in a small market.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Agreed they might make changes, but I don't expect it before they make a run this year.
Westbrook, Harden and Iblocka don’t actually hurt the team financially until they are off rookie scale. So Rubio and RickWill need to both be good over the next couple years before I think this would have some legs.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
After just two games
and two losses (one of them quite ugly), Rubio is your all-time favorite? Pretty low bar there.
by ogishkemuncie on Dec 29, 2011 11:09 AM CST up reply actions
I'm
desperate.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
No way
Putting Ricky on the Thunder denies us a championship no matter how good Westbrook is. Ricky is tailor made for that team.
by Dr. Wolfenstein on Dec 29, 2011 11:44 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah--
that’s the reason OKC might be interested in trading their 23-year-old All Star point guard. And in case you didn’t notice, OKC is already heavily favored to win the West, and the Wolves are the in the middle of a 17 game losing streak. I don’t think it’s time for clever chess moves to block a potential competitor.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Which reminded me. . .
Of the birth scene in TW BD PT1. . .
by Sterno on Dec 29, 2011 11:56 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
HAH!
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
I'll take the multi-year sample size
That shows Westbrook is one of the best players in the league versus a three game sample that includes Westbrook’s worst game as a pro.
Michael Beasley is a Small Forward. Derrick Williams is a Power Forward.
OK
but it’s not like Westbrook hasn’t performed this way throughout a season before. His rookie year he did the same thing.
Here’s my deal – I simply don’t believe Russell Westbrook is a #1 player. I just don’t. He’s a me-first guy who, near as I can tell, doesn’t make his teammates better.
Want numbers? Compared to his upper echelon peers through their first three seasons, Westbrook ranks last in WS. This after playing the second most minutes out of all of those guys behind Rose. His ORtg is tied for last with Tony Parker, and well behind the top guys. His defense – his supposed hallmark – is not even in the top half of these guys. Fortunately he has the highest USG rate to go along with the worst TS% and efg% of the group – and that includes Rondo, Rubio’s most obvious comp among this group (even tho I admit that comp isn’t fair to Rondo).
Would y’all trade Ricky and Williams for Tony Parker? Are you kidding me? I don’t think I do that trade, but Tony Parker is the best comp for Westbrook through three years, and Tony was did more for his team than Westbrook has. I suppose it helps that Tony played with two future HOFers in Duncan and Manu, but then again that is the point. Russell wants to be the guy, but he’s far from producing at the levels necessary to be ‘the guy’ as evidenced by Paul, Deron Williams, and Rose.
You guys can laugh at me all you want or smile knowingly to yourself that saying no to a trade for Westbrook is stupid, but is it? Seriously? A guy who’s ego is so big that he takes offense to questions about Rubio? What is this, the playground? After all the debate on here about Michael Beasley and Derrick Williams’ primary value being as a scorer – and now you want to trade for a guy who’s primary value is as a volume scorer? Do you really think a super-charged Luke Ridnour is what this team needs? Maybe you do.
I have no idea what Rubio is going to contribute to this team over the long haul. I am ever hopeful, but you never know. What I do know is that as of right now I personally would pass on Westbrook. I’ve seen his diva show before with Marbury, and I want absolutely no part in that again. I like what Rubio does, how he runs a team, how he helps get guys in position, and how he cares about winning more than what he personally does. I’m willing to roll with him for a few years before starting to entertain notions of trading him. After all, we just spent two years assembling a team and getting a coach for him.
by Dr. Wolfenstein on Dec 29, 2011 12:29 PM CST up reply actions 7 recs
Responding in kind to your long post
1. This isn’t about what RW was his rookie year, if every player improved as much as RW did between his 1st and 3rd seasons, we wouldn’t need to make any moves because our roster is full of shitty young players. Westbrook is an outlier in that he did improve to superstar status. Counting on Rubio to make the same year over year improvements is fools gold. It could happen, but it’s not probable.
2. Here’s my deal, I don’t know what your version of a #1 player is, but our current #1 option plays well no matter whether he has me-first teammates because he plays off of people. Westbrook can be selfish, and it’s okay, because Kevin Love makes selfish players better by cleaning up the offensive glass with his elite garbage man game.
3. Great, Rajon Rondo has more Win Shares per 48 minutes during his third season than Westbrook did during his 3rd season. Rondo is a guy people compare Rubio to all the time. If Rubio hits Rondo territory in his 3rd season (Unlikely but possible), we still have the problem that our current franchise player in Kevin Love would work best with a high usage perimeter player rather than a distributor. Rondo’s usage rate in his third season was 19%. Westbrook’s was 31.9%. So Westbrook is a better fit AND he’s a known commodity, Rubio is hope and a prayer.
Your silly comparison of RW to Derrick Williams and Michael Beasley doesn’t seem to factor in that RW is a much better, much more efficient volume scorer than either of those guys.
Michael Beasley is a Small Forward. Derrick Williams is a Power Forward.
I actually agree with all of this
Russel Westbrook is the player currently I still have faith Beasley can be (which is actually scary to think that I am openly rooting for a player to become a player that I’m not overly thrilled about acquiring…)
But I agree with all your points
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Westbrook is a punk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnVcYQrpR68&feature=player_embedded
Apparently he screamed at Sefalosha “shoot the ****in ball” after this play, and then, reportedly, him and Durant had to be pulled apart on the sidelines. RWB didn’t like how Durant was talking to him.
I dont want him on the Wolves.
He's an overcompetitive prick
But those guys tend to win ballgames. I don’t mind some anger and fire.
I agree
Minnesota Twins need a RW
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Really?
Your silly comparison of RW to Derrick Williams and Michael Beasley doesn’t seem to factor in that RW is a much better, much more efficient volume scorer than either of those guys.
Let’s compare ‘peak’ Westbrook with Beasley last year.
Westbrook posts a higher TS% because he shoots so many more FTs, but Beasley has a higher efg% due to him being the superior outside shooter. Looking for what a ‘high-efficiency chucker’ might look like, here’s the list of guard/guard-forward types with over 15 FGA/36 and a TS% of over .530. Westbrook ranks 20th on this list. He ranks dead last in efg%, a full .100 points below the leader (Steph Curry). I just don’t see how Westbrook can be considered an efficient volume scorer. He’s a volume scorer who can get to the line, which makes him a lot like Monta Ellis, not Steph Curry. Seriously, the two other scorers on his team are far more efficient.
I understand what you’re saying, I just disagree with it. I think this team would still be better served going forward with Rubio at this point than Westbrook.
by Dr. Wolfenstein on Dec 29, 2011 11:38 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Westbrook posts a higher TS% because he shoots so many more FTs
Exactly. Which is why Westbrook is more efficient.It’s not a fair comparison to Beasley or Williams because Westbrook creates offense for himself and others and does so at a much higher true shooting percentage. I could care less what his effective field goal percentage is. I don’t know why you zeroed in on that statistic, but drawing free throws is important. Points from the line count the same as points from the field. And misses from the field are more easily offensive rebounded by Love than accurate free throws.
here’s the list of guard/guard-forward types with over 15 FGA/36 and a TS% of over .530. Westbrook ranks 20th on this list. He ranks dead last in efg%, a full .100 points below the leader (Steph Curry). I just don’t see how Westbrook can be considered an efficient volume scorer.
Westbrook ranks 1st out of 20 in Assist %, 1st out of 20 in Steal %, and he’s also the third youngest player on the list. You seem to stylistically prefer a pure point like Rubio projects to become, that’s fine, but Westbrook is already producing at an elite level at a young age, and that’s much more desirable than the chance Rubio becomes the type of player you would rather watch.
He’s a volume scorer who can get to the line, which makes him a lot like Monta Ellis, not Steph Curry. Seriously, the two other scorers on his team are far more efficient
I don’t know how you can miss the big elephant in the room with this comparison. He has Steph Curry’s distribution game paired with Monta Ellis’ volume scoring, and he rebounds better than Curry, Ellis, or Harden. That ability to create points for other people and rebound the ball is why his WS/48 is nearly double the amount of Ellis in his 6th season. Let’s also not forget that unlike Ellis and Curry, he can guard a position. He’s a really good player.
Michael Beasley is a Small Forward. Derrick Williams is a Power Forward.
by Ebomb on Dec 30, 2011 12:03 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I just
think Westbrook is a volume scorer, and a pretty good one. I quibble with the argument that he’s efficient. And no, I don’t particularly think kamikaze drives to the hoop and missing but getting the free throws makes one particularly ‘efficient’, but I guess that’s just my personal thing.
I don’t even quibble with the fact that Westbrook is a really good player – he is. I, personally, just don’t want him on this team. He looks absolutely great and can do all the things you say, and yet when I watch him I don’t get the sense that he makes his teammates any better at all. Out of all the core Thunder guys he is the one who most consistently looks like he’s playing on an island for that team. He looks like Beasley does for out team. I can’t argue with his assist production, but what I keep coming back to is that he’s a scorer who can drop the rock off to guys like KD or Harden and pick up some assists. More to the point, he’s a scorer, a guy who calls his own number and, to my eyes, often appears to play as a one man team in competition with whoever he thinks is slighting him at the moment.
I don’t know. This isn’t a discussion anymore because it’s basically my own opinion vs. yours and I realize I’ve come to a point where I’m not going to change my views at the moment. I apologize for that. At the very least perhaps we can agree that it will be fun to watch what happens to him this year as well as the Thunder. The proof is always in the pudding, as they say.
by Dr. Wolfenstein on Dec 30, 2011 2:09 PM CST up reply actions
Agreed
A few things concern me about Westbrook. For one, he only has one season of significantly above average play. He’s had reasonably high PERs for all three of his seasons, but that’s in part because he’s sported high usage rates all three years. His WS/48 look like this:
Rookie: .035
2nd year: .105
3rd year: .159
He was legitimately very good last season, but that came largely from a big spike in his scoring efficiency (TS% of .491 to .538). His FTA/FG rate has always been good, but he’s a player who takes an extremely high proportion of shots from inside the arc, so his game is predicated largely on getting to the rim and shooting very high percentages from inside the arc. I can see how he can be very good doing that (see last year), but I can just as easily see his style resulting in a statistical profile more like 2009-2010.
Actually, to amend my previous statement
He doesn’t shoot high percentages from inside the arc except from one place: at the rim.
http://www.hoopdata.com/shotstats.aspx?team=OKC&type=pg&posi=PG&yr=2011&gp=0&mins=0
You can see there that he shot worse than the league average for point guards from every distance (from 3, from 3-9 ft, etc.) except at the rim, where he shot 60%, which is a tad higher than the league average. He managed to muster a relatively strong efficiency rate at the rim despite taking nearly 3.5 shots more than the average point guard at the rim.
In fact, it was his newly discovered prowess for league average scoring efficiency at the rim that mostly separates his 09-10 efficiency from his 10-11 efficiency. In 09-10, he shot just 52.7% from the rim, about 4% less than league average. He managed to finish stronger even while upping his usage rate there.
It’ll be interesting to see whether he can maintain his effectiveness at the rim this season, but like I noted above, I’d be more comfortable with him as a high-level volume scorer if I could see him do it two years in a row.
Then they've been winning in spite of him
since he joined the team.
Meanwhile, the Wolves have been losing in spite of drafting Ricky Rubio, so . . .
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
More reminding me of things
“But while they prate of economic laws, men and women are starving. We must lay hold of the fact that economic laws are not made by nature. They are made by human beings.”
- FDR
But while they prate of draft potential, fans are bolting or not caring. We must lay hold of the fact that player personnel laws are not made by nature. They are made by human beings.
Ask not what your franchise can do for you
Ask what you can do for your franchise…
Michael Beasley is a Small Forward. Derrick Williams is a Power Forward.
How can we be in the middle of a streak
when it’s about to end?
Duh, I thought I was TimAllen there for a moment.
Well said
The idea particularly has intrigue given Westbrook and Love are best buds (for what it’s worth), Westbrook’s that alpha guard many think Love would excel playing off of, and it’d give the Wolves two core players in their early 20s…maybe they could get that by holding fort and seeing of Rubio and/or Williams can become a core player, but that’s up in the air at this point.
But yeah, is Westbrook trustworthy enough to be a face-of-the-franchise type? I don’t know one way or the other.
A Westbrook-Rondo deal seems like destiny, though.
Yep.
Young all-star guard who draws fouls at a good clip and can run the PnR with Love. His PER, AST% and Usage have all gone up each of his first three years with his TOV% dropping. Of course he has flaws, but I don’t lose any sleep in trading any non-Love player for a second rising all-star.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
What are your thoughts
on Rubio’s place on OKC?
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
If they got Williams too
and had a starting 5 of
Rubio
Harden
Durant
Williams
Perkins
I think that by next year they would be better than the roster they are currently working with.
Their scoring would be evenly distributed (Harden on the wing, Williams in the post, Durant kind of in between) they’d have a PG who would make the best scorer in the NBA even better, and they have a brute of a center who would help make the potential defensive deficiencies of Williams less. Plus they’d still probably have Ibaka and Sefalosha coming off the bench
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 29, 2011 10:05 AM CST up reply actions
I've said it before
Durant with that back court would score 35 a night. And I’m not even exaggerating that much. No way the Wolves give up Williams and Rubio for Westbrook though.
I'd much rather just do Williams for Harden
We’d probably have to add to that
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 29, 2011 10:16 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Rubio, Harden, and Love
would be such a smart team. Better fit for MN than OKC long term, I think but I bet OKC still takes a long hard look at that one.
I would give up Rubio and Williams for Westbrook
As fast as I could. Why is there “no way” the Wolves do this deal. In NBA trades, the team who gets the best player 95% of the time wins the deal. RW is the clear best player in such a deal. The Thunder is the team that would say no deal.
Michael Beasley is a Small Forward. Derrick Williams is a Power Forward.
by Ebomb on Dec 29, 2011 10:18 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The problem with that is...
I’d have to start rooting for OKL.
Would be the most fun team in the league.
It would make for one hell
of a division rivalry
Michael Beasley is a Small Forward. Derrick Williams is a Power Forward.
We would stand no chance
I agree it makes us better instantly,
but that team would murder us and anyone
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 29, 2011 10:22 AM CST up reply actions
The only reason you do this trade
is cause Westbrook is currently a much better player who is potentially not on the right team for him.
I don’t see anyway this trade doesn’t make OKC even more of an unstoppable force to the point where even the Heat would get blown out nightly by them
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 29, 2011 10:23 AM CST up reply actions
I don't worry about how the trade improves the other team
When it clearly makes the Wolves a much better team immediately. The Wolves aren’t competitive with the Thunder as currently made up, so who cares if the Thunder get better or worse with this trade.
Michael Beasley is a Small Forward. Derrick Williams is a Power Forward.
That's a reasonable argument
And I take it you aren’t so much worried about ever winning a championship in the KLove era?
Which is even understandable considering many posters just would be happy with being in the playoffs.
I myself would prefer us to at least have a illusion of the potential to win a title……that illusion would go out the window for me if we make this trade. OKC would have what I would consider to be the perfect basketball team….they wouldn’t even need a coach and they would blow every team out.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 29, 2011 10:27 AM CST up reply actions
And I take it you aren’t so much worried about ever winning a championship in the KLove era?
Didn’t say that. Didn’t imply that. In fact, I would argue we have a better chance beating OKC after making this trade than before it, since they would be counting on players that aren’t as good as RW to fill his shoes.
Their should be no illusions about the fact that the roster as currently constructed likely has little potential to win a title.
Michael Beasley is a Small Forward. Derrick Williams is a Power Forward.
"the roster as currently constructed likely has little potential to win a title."
I’m not sure what I find more hilarious and depressing:
1. The fact that people are afraid of jeopardizing the chances of winning a title for a team that has won 9 of its last 53 games.
2. The fact that the new and improved coaching staff seems perfectly happy to trot out the starting line-up that won 9 of its last 53 games.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
by PoorDick on Dec 29, 2011 10:45 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I trust Adelman
Chemistry is everything in the NBA. Throwing a whole new lineup out on the floor after only 2 preseason games and a week of practice is likely a recipe for distaster. Put guys in positions where they can succeed. A basic tenet that was overlooked by the previous regime.
"is likely a recipe for distaster"
What do you call the pertinent parts of the game against the Bucks?
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Really??!!!
So at this critical juncture Adelman heads out the door, tosses the clipboard, pills, and water bottle to Porter and says, “Do whatever the eff you want, I get paid either way.”?
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
It's hard to walk on water
AND give directions to someone else to walk on water.
Michael Beasley is a Small Forward. Derrick Williams is a Power Forward.
Adelman was seen
popping something on the bench during the OKC game.
I would guess it was Xanax, and if it had been during the Bucks game, I would say cyanide.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Think of all the good teaching material
That came out of that one game.
The man’s a genius! He knows what he’s doing.
One step backward for huge leaps forward. Look out Miami.
by Rodman99 on Dec 29, 2011 11:27 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
And I do think it's wise
Not to let Rubio get abused by Westbrook, Jennings, etc al, during the first quarter during the first part of the season. Let him get his feet wet before we throw him in the fire.
Plus Ridnour seems impervious to guys blowing past him. Doesn’t faze him a bit.
His spirituality
gives him an inner strength.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
That's an awfully big assumption
Note: the Heat were supposed to win. Or the Lakers. Or Chicago. The Mavs were not. The NBA IS more predictable than, say, Major League Baseball, but it is still no lock. OKC has yet to win a championship. There is no guarantee they will.
by ogishkemuncie on Dec 29, 2011 11:15 AM CST up reply actions
Now he is the best player, yes.
And while Rubio will never be the scorer RW is, there is a very good chance he eclipses him as an overall point guard possibly even soon
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 29, 2011 10:19 AM CST up reply actions
I disagree
RW was All-NBA. Rubio just played his second game. Chances are Rubio never becomes as good as RW is today.
Michael Beasley is a Small Forward. Derrick Williams is a Power Forward.
It's a safe bet
I live on the wild side though
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 29, 2011 10:21 AM CST up reply actions
Remember
when Stephon Marbury was the best player in a trade? Giving up Rubio for Westbrook is a disaster.
by Dr. Wolfenstein on Dec 29, 2011 11:46 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
That marubury trade didn't work out well for anyone
both Brandon and Wally had huge injury problems and Steph was Steph
Side note, had Mchale drafted Maggette instead of Will Avery….we would have had a pretty good run with that lineup of Brandon, Maggette, Wally and KG.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
It actually sowed the seeds of the Sam I Am trade:
Wolves traded Chris Carr, Bill Curley and Starbury to the Nets; Wolves traded Paul Grant to the Bucks; Bucks traded Terrell Brandon to Wolves; Bucks traded Eliot Perry to the Nets; Nets traded Sam Cassell and Chris Gatling to the Bucks; Nets traded Brian Evans and 99 1st rounder (Wally) to the Wolves.
For as fun as that season was
I wish Brandon/Wally would have been healthy and Mchale had drafted better
I was a big Brandon fan when he was healthy. I loved that team that had Billups Brandon and Wally yet it felt like that trio played like 15 total games together.
even though Maggette isn’t great I still think that Will Avery pick made little sense and Maggette has had a pretty solid career as a scoring guard, Brandon wasn’t that old lol we didn’t need a pg of the future so soon.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Agree, but he'll never be as expensive either.
They only way this hypothetical makes sense to me is if OKC decides Harden is worth a max and is more valuable to the team and that they aren’t paying three max salaries. So yeah if I squint at in and just the right light and drink enough it becomes…..
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
I am comfortable paying RW and KLove the Max, and filling in around them with role players. The next 6 years would be as a fringe contender at worse.
Michael Beasley is a Small Forward. Derrick Williams is a Power Forward.
Me too, but unlessRW punches KD and starts crying on the court in some sort of break down I don't think we've got much of a shot at making this happen.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
True, but
Westbrook and Love are not as great of a contending duo as Durant and Westbrook (or Durant and any other star). Durant > Love or most anyone else. We would be a good, exciting, contending team, but not the favorite.
by ogishkemuncie on Dec 29, 2011 11:17 AM CST up reply actions
"We would be a good, exciting, contending team, but not the favorite"
Where do I sign up for this?
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Wait
Another couple months.
by Dr. Wolfenstein on Dec 29, 2011 11:47 AM CST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Well
I’ve waited for 21 out of the last 22 years, so another couple months shouldn’t be too tough.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Rubio long term v Westbrook long term
I would value what Rubio represents more than I value what Westbrook represents and that is a pass-first point guard.
This is a ridiculous example because Rubio has played two games BUT:
Suns and Nets traded Marbury for Kidd…this turned the Nets into an East power and the Suns into the only stretch of basketball in the past 15 years where they were a bottom dweller (until perhaps this season)
If Rubio is a pass first guy anything close to Kidd there are very few players I would like to trade him for.
But because he has only played 2 games I think you can still safely make the trade.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Knowing what we now know about Starbury
(he eats vasoline in front of webcams) I think it’s safe to say that some outside factors led to his basketball demise. He was an awesome young player with the potential to be better than what Westbrook is and will be.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
Yep
It was a flawed comparison but I think the kind of essence of the comparison (pass-first pg vs shoot first pg) remains true.
I’m very leery with shoot first PG’s unless they are Derrick Rose….even John Wall I’m not sold on yet and think I would perhaps like to stick with Rubio (However, wouldn’t have sucked to get that pick and either trade it or play Wall and Rubio together)
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Check out the link below
They have eerily similar net production over their first 3 years. Westbrook doesn’t shoot as well but he makes up for it on the glass and with his passing. He’s also bigger and more athletic. I have fond memories of KG/Steph’s potential, but I think you’re selling Westbrook short here. He’s a really talented player.
This may be in no small part
due to my spending 65 (out of 200) fantasy dollars on him, and getting obliterated this week (-13 points from RW last night—we’re penalizing turnovers pretty harshly).
I voted “yes” and love Westbrook’s game.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
Because I think the Wolves have too much invested in Rubio right now.
They just signed Barea, I don’t think they’ve given up on Beasley and I think they (rightly) see that if Beas is ever going to reach his “potential”, however unlikely that may be, that it is net to Rubio rather than RW. I also don’t think they are in a position to trade away their highest ever draft pick and possibly their most hyped player ever for one guy that may or may not sign an extension here.
Does Barea only work if he plays with Rubio? Beasley has been getting ISO opportunities that are not dependent on Rubio. I agree with your point you don’t trade for RW without discussing whether he is amenable to signing an extension though.
Michael Beasley is a Small Forward. Derrick Williams is a Power Forward.
He'd be really good there.
Rubio strikes me as NBA elite in transition and NBA good in the half court. With KD and Harden in the half court I think OKC would still be NBA elite, but the addition of Rubio in transition would be demoralizing to play against. OKC would beat you over the course of the game and steal your soul on your TOs and mistakes.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
I guess in theory I say yes
but I voted no.
If anybody but Love can get us Westbrook, there have got to be 10 other players I’d rather make this deal with.
If that is possible why not “Anybody but Love and Rubio” for Eric Gordon? Much rather do that. Or Harden
Or Deron Williams in the situation where we give up Rubio
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I'd also say reasonable suspicion is a little light
It’s getting pretty close to fact considering he almost single handedly lost the Wolves game for his team. He doesn’t even bother looking at Durant with under 7 minutes to go in the game
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Well, on the Wolves
He would have no one he need bother looking at with under 7 minutes to go in the game.
Michael Beasley is a Small Forward. Derrick Williams is a Power Forward.
Totally
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 29, 2011 10:20 AM CST up reply actions
Russel Westbrook may be the perfect complement to Love
What’s not to like?
Volume Shooter? Check.
Finsher? Check.
Create his own shot in the halfcourt? Check.
The guy is a top 3 finished in the league with Wade and Lebron. Last year’s fast break points went 1. LeBron, 2. RW, 3. DWade. He is a beast. Reverse karma from the Marbury trade gets it done.
Michael Beasley is a Small Forward. Derrick Williams is a Power Forward.
+1
However I would die a little bit inside if we got him, but would probably be fine with the end result
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 29, 2011 10:20 AM CST up reply actions
It has hurt OKC already though
Could be a completely different situation here in Minny, but Westbrook arguably single handedly cost them a trip to the Finals last summer
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 29, 2011 10:24 AM CST up reply actions
Durant and Westbrook are both Perimeter #1 options
That is the base of the frcition IMO. And that friction evaporates in MN.
Michael Beasley is a Small Forward. Derrick Williams is a Power Forward.
I'm not saying don't make the trade
I question the slam dunkness of it however.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 29, 2011 10:29 AM CST up reply actions
That's because you consistently value Potential
more than production. It’s kind of your MO.
Michael Beasley is a Small Forward. Derrick Williams is a Power Forward.
by Ebomb on Dec 29, 2011 10:35 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
To an extent yes.
SnP called me out yesterday for implying things that people don’t actually say, and here is another example of how when other people do that exact thing, SnP doesn’t bother calling them out.
Yeah, to an extent I do value potential. I get jittery when people throw out trading no.2 picks for guys like Kevin Martin, who are nice players and may inevitably be better than Williams in their career, but you know who they are, you know what their limitations are and they aren’t the equivalent of a number 2 pick.
But I have more than enough times stated the case that if the Wolves can or could have gotten a James Harden or an Eric Gordon, i.e. a guy who is already good, who might already be as good or better than K-Mart and who still have some upside potential left to grow….yes, you do it.
I value potential because I look at the successful teams over the past handful of year and almost all of them have at one point or another gambled on a high-risk, high-reward player, or multiple ones. Dirk and Kobe are two good examples of high potential players that weren’t slam dunks for draft picks coming out, but they got on the right team with the right coach (a reason I am still high on Beasley, never felt like Miami was the right coach or team for him, last year not the right coach. Adleman has a history of getting the most out of players).
I don’t love the safe bet, I’d rather go all or nothing cause I do believe in the NBA it is better to be a bottom 5 team than in the 9-19 range (unless you are an emerging team). Indiana has been stuck there forever and they might be slightly better this year, but they have very little chance of being a top 3 Eastern Conference team….and even they took a swing I was begging the Wolves to take by drafting Paul George.
In saying all this I still haven’t said the Wolves shouldn’t make this trade. I would prefer them, if a trade like this were possible, to target a different All-Star (wouldn’t it seem likely that if this trade were possible a different one would also be possibe?).
PoorDick I think was mocking me (at least this is how I read into his comment) lumping people in the category that says “people who are afraid to break up a 9 win team,” and I don’t believe that is what I am saying here. I am actually agreeing with the philosophy of finding another All-Star at the price of “breaking up a 9 win team” I would hope we just could find a different one, and if we can’t you still make the deal.
I’ve said it a million times but Harden is the guy to get from OKC though
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 29, 2011 12:31 PM CST up reply actions
I'm sorry, I'm not "mocking" you
I’m just clumsily disagreeing with you.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Well can I ask you a question
Has what I have said here given you the impression I “don’t want to break up a 9 win team?”
Cause I feel like I have stated multiple times that you make this trade even if Westbrook is not my favorite All-Star
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 29, 2011 12:36 PM CST up reply actions
The reasons you cite
for not wanting Westbrook above all others are the exact same reasons he could be made available to the Wolves.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
I guess that is a fair point
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 29, 2011 12:42 PM CST up reply actions
And I've said it three times
but LeBron is the guy to get from Miami though.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
But who could we trade?
Because I wouldn’t want him unless we can keep Love/Rubio, and I’m hesitant to give up on D-Will so soon.
Track records and patterns matter
(RE: Calling people out.)
So does creating a conversation based on good faith back and forth action.
I feel like it's done too me
as much as you are saying I do it to others.
I don’t generally disagree with you, it’s easier to generalize points people make. Like with Eric in Madison about not valuing draft picks, whether he wants a draft pick or not or cares he implicitly said “i don’t want anymore draft picks” I’m sure if we had a chance to draft Durant 2.0 he would change his tone…so I get it that I generalize points.
And I don’t even mind that Ebomb has done it here….considering I am guilty about it, but to call me out and not someone else out is….well it’s lame.
Do whatever you want though, it’s your site, you are a fine writer even if I don’t agree with all your points.
I feel I debate in good faith, but maybe I don’t.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 29, 2011 12:40 PM CST up reply actions
For what it's worth
you are a polite and reasonable debater, and willing to justify your arguments.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Yeah...
Voodoo always keeps it cordial, presents ideas, and responds to arguments. I think things just get combative at times because of the combination of rapid-fire long comments, and steady repetition of the same arguments.
So you think I reiterate too much?
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I probably do
It is tough when say I’m in a debate with 4 different people at different points in the thread and my response to their separate debates tend to be the same thing. so I do find I repeat myself multiple times in a thread.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Lol my only problem with debating him
It is fairly tough for me to always know whether he is joking or not.
Sometimes it’s obvious….other times not so much.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
remember that English is not Poor Dick's first language
It is fairly tough for me to always know whether he is joking or not.
Too hot to handle, too cold to hold
They're called the Ghostbusters and they're in control
It's my
last one, actually.
My first language is the Language of LUHHHHHHHVVV.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
holding on to that H really makes her scream, huh?
Too hot to handle, too cold to hold
They're called the Ghostbusters and they're in control
OK, look
Equity matters. I second what PD just wrote: you are polite and reasonable and optimistic.
I also don’t want to have to repeat the bar analogy every 2 months so newer commenters can “get the bit”. This place has to be as self-policing as possible. There are no real rules to get upset about them being applied unevenly, but the barkeep likes to think he knows when it gets a bit loud.
Over the course of running this site I have found that there are a few different types of conversations that don’t mix well. Super optimism + arguments about odds is one where I want to make sure people are really cognizant of what other people are saying. I don’t clomp on much but this is definitely one area where the barkeep may have a sensitive ear.
You also seem hypersensitive
to the opinion that letting non-whites into the NBA has ruined the game.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
I've always thought Reddick would be awesome....
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 29, 2011 12:53 PM CST up reply actions
for the record, Poor Dick
is being 100% serious with this comment
You also seem hypersensitive
to the opinion that letting non-whites into the NBA has ruined the game.
Too hot to handle, too cold to hold
They're called the Ghostbusters and they're in control
I never know
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Adam Morrisson would still have sucked
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Fair Enough
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I'm sorry if I offended you
But you do admit that do value potential. Apparently with a ton of caveats and nuances that I clearly couldn’t sum up in a one sentence post. We’ve just had this same argument before in other places, and I thought this comment summed up our differences in this regard.
As others have reiterated you are a respectful and thoughtful arguer. We rarely see eye to eye, but I do enjoy our discourse.
Michael Beasley is a Small Forward. Derrick Williams is a Power Forward.
Here's the thing
You didn’t offend me, per se.
What I was offended by is yesterday I did a similar thing to Eric in Madison and SnP called me out on it…and then you generalized my opinion and I was just kind like….“well this is sweet…other people can do whatever they want to make a point but I can’t”
I think to say I value potential over production is a safe call, however I don’t’ believe I blindly follow that rule.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Of course, the case could be made
that without Westbrook, they wouldn’t have made it to the semi-finals.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
They would have drafted someone else though?
Like say Gordon in 2008 followed by Rubio in 2009?
Or Love in 2008?
I’d take either of those 2008 scenarios for the Thunder over Westbrook
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 29, 2011 12:16 PM CST up reply actions
I bet
they’re really regretting taking Westbrook.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Westbrook sucks.
Not like he’s ever made an All-Sta—-
Not like he’s ever been selected for an All-NBA te—
Not like he’s ever won a Gold me—
The bum.
Follow me on Twitter @timallenonline
They can't be the same person
unless this is Photoshopped:
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Just sayin'
Boozer has been a good to great player, yet he’s not the guy, he’s always dependent on playing with other super stars, and he’s a mercenary player who ultimately is motivated by his own self interests.
But I could be completely wrong about Westbrook – I’ll admit that. Maybe he does stay in OKC and help bring them a championship. Maybe he does choose to defer to KD because that’s what in the best interest of their team and their future together. Maybe he does stop worrying about reporters asking about other players and focus only on what’s going to help his team win. Maybe he does change his attitude and do all these things.
by Dr. Wolfenstein on Dec 29, 2011 12:41 PM CST up reply actions
Your points
on Westbrook are valid, but see this.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
No regretting
But…well, who would you rather have if all things are equal?
Love, Westbrook or Gordon?
I myself would probably go Love, Gordon, Westbrook in that order (Side note: next time someone thinks I am hating on Love…direct them here. He’s a stud, even if I point out that I don’t think he is a “no.1”, still think he’s a stud)
And to be completely honest and fair, RW could easily be the compliment to Love I was talking about yesterday where if Love were to win a title as the best player he’s going to need the 2nd best player to be a big time point flusher.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Not to my preferences, it isn't.
And if it affects team chemistry, it’s a problem too. I agree that the guy has talent and would be the best player in the trade, but team chemistry is a real thing, too.
by Madison Dan on Dec 29, 2011 10:50 AM CST up reply actions
I think that's overrated.
Sure, it can cause friction. But very few champions are free from some kind of friction—Kobe and the Lakers, Doc/KG and the Celtics, hell even Rick Carlisle had issues with players last year.
Besides, I’ll take a winning bickering team over losing bosom buddies any day.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Are we even sure that KLove isn't an A-hole?
Great player, and definitely media-savvy and adept at saying the right things. But I’m not sure he’s the most fun guy to be around either.
That being said, I think most players like winning and will be happier than if they are losing. Adding Westbrook certainly should help on that front and him getting to be the man should make him happier too, so I would do this trade in a heartbeat.
As others have said, I don’t think OKC considers this unless it becomes a huge issue, and it isn’t close to that yet.
I agree with this completely
and I Love Love. But we have no way of knowing if these guys get along on and off the court. Every rube wants to believe they’re best friends, and love each other like brothers.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Are you calling Andy G a rube?
Fight! Fight! Fight!
by Madison Dan on Dec 29, 2011 11:28 AM CST up reply actions
No, Andy G
has his own website now, so I have to be respectful of him and his dimwitted opinions.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
I'll try to save the most-dimwitted opinions
for these exchanges. One day, Mitch Albom can author the best-selling book:
Workdays with PoorDick
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
by Andy G on Dec 29, 2011 11:39 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I would also point out that this is a "First World Problem"
Notice how ESPN doesn’t worry much about whether Brandon Jennings rubs his teammates the wrong way yet they spent last year using forensics to examine body language to determine if LeBron liked Spolstra or whether Bosh was not really one of the “Big Three”.
You win, you get scrutiny. You play like the Wolves and no one cares if Beas and Love don’t like each other or if Rindour is P.O’d that RR is stealing his thunder.
by Sterno on Dec 29, 2011 11:43 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
All NBA can be classified as a First World Problem ;)
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Yep
My meaning (and I’ll apologize in advance if you figured it out) was that the Thunder and Miami’s are like the US and Germany and OBPs are somewhere around the Congo or Myanmar in terms of functioning.
Better than North Korea (Detroit) though!
Everybody
Loves their first college room mate.
by pastyearsears on Dec 29, 2011 2:06 PM CST up reply actions
I blame European socialism
Too hot to handle, too cold to hold
They're called the Ghostbusters and they're in control
Mine had a coffee shop in Costa Rica, but I don't know how it went
Since I haven’t bothered to look him up in over forty years.
by pastyearsears on Dec 29, 2011 2:19 PM CST up reply actions
Mine would listen to Rammstein at 8am. And Rammstein can only be listened to at very loud levels.
Just saying, not everyone loved their first college roommate.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Dec 29, 2011 2:24 PM CST up reply actions
Mine had a psychotic break about 5 years ago.
Another friend and I had to call his parents. It was unpleasant.
I haven't seen or heard from mine
since that first year of college. It was unpleasant.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Dec 30, 2011 12:01 AM CST up reply actions
But the hard part
is getting your first college room mate to love you back.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Huh
I must be in the minority when I say that my first college roommate is still one of my best friends. I was really lucky to be sure. Other friends have horror stories, though. Guy that slept all day and stayed up all night, rarely showered, and ate his own foot skin? No thank you.
Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.
Perfect compliment to Rubio too.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Dec 29, 2011 11:09 AM CST up reply actions
I have the perfect compliment to Rubio
“Mr. Rubio, you are cute, you have beautiful hair, and your passing is sensational.”
Ha! Damnit.
Nice work.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Dec 29, 2011 11:16 AM CST up reply actions
For serious, I do think Rubio and Westbrook would work well together
But I have some doubts about whether Westbrook would accept being moved off the ball. He lobbied for OKC not to draft Rubio.
Moot point since we wouldn’t get Westbrook w/o trading Love or Rubio though.
I thought that would be good, too . . .
but when I said it to him he seemed kind of creeped out.
I think he doesn’t understand the English so good.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
She would
be an annoying fifth wheel to me and my new amigos.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
by PoorDick on Dec 29, 2011 11:23 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I think I'd be more interested in trying to
Put Harden on a team with Love/Rubio than this trade
A Harden/Rubio backcourt might be the most terrifying thing imaginable to me. How more perfect does a pairing get?
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
What do the Wolves have
that would entice OKC to trade Harden?
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Nothing
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
Well Love, but nothing we'd part with.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
The premise
of his comment was “Put Harden on a team with Love/Rubio”.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
nothing directly
but Beas and DWill could be used as part of a 3 team trade that sends Westbrook elsewhere and harden here
REPORTER: What do you think is happening to the team?
MICHAEL RAY RICHARDSON: The ship be sinking.
REPORTER: How far can it sink?
MICHAEL RAY RICHARDSON: Sky's the limit.
by uofmike on Dec 29, 2011 12:11 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
Beas/DWill and Wes
REPORTER: What do you think is happening to the team?
MICHAEL RAY RICHARDSON: The ship be sinking.
REPORTER: How far can it sink?
MICHAEL RAY RICHARDSON: Sky's the limit.
by uofmike on Dec 29, 2011 12:13 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
I don't really know
If Russel Westbrook can be attained for everything but Love
shouldn’t Harden be attainable for everything but Love/Rubio?
That was basically all I was thinking
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 29, 2011 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
Really doubt it
Harden is a great fit on a team that’s a championship contender… why would they trade him to us for our castoffs and a rookie?
Kinda goes back too
Why would they trade us Westbrook?
Which PoorDick smartly notified me that, the attitude I don’t like about Westbrook is the same reason he might be available
that saying OKC is desperate for some frontcourt scoring…if Williams proves he can flush points I don’t see why OKC wouldn’t at least be intrigued by getting a frontcourt scorer on a rookie deal instead of having to choose between paying Harden a buttload or RW
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 29, 2011 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, there is a potential chemistry issue
Sometimes that’s how great players become available. That’s just not the case for Harden. We’d have to probably pay more than full value for him because he fits the team, he’s young, he’s underpaid, and he’s not a chemistry problem. He’s worth a lot more than our castoff players and a rookie.
For what it’s worth, I’d hate to give up Rubio and D-Will for Westbrook even if it’s the smart play. I like rooting for Rubio.
Rubio is fun
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
A thread should be started
listing all the NBA players that every other team desires, yet somehow feels their existing team is oblivious to that lust. It could include Harden, Gordon & Afflalo, darlings of critics and fans everywhere. Fans of most every team somehow feel they could low-ball them away from their present teams. Ain’t gonna happen.
by ogishkemuncie on Dec 29, 2011 11:23 AM CST up reply actions
great point
A thread should be started
listing all the NBA players that every other team desires, yet somehow feels their existing team is oblivious to that lust.
I have a Canadian friend who always wants to trade Sonny Weems for Lebron (Guard on the Heat) but he’s not sure if the salaries match up. A bottle of Canada’s finest maple syrup if any CH’ers can solve this riddle
I'm a very tough guy on the internet
by Son of Gerald Green on Dec 29, 2011 4:02 PM CST up reply actions
I'd trade Ridnour, Wes Johnson and Nikola Pekovic for Westbrook
But not Rubio or Williams
Follow me on Twitter @timallenonline
Would you be so kind
as to post your acceptable trade at Daily Thunder orwhatevertheefftheOKCsiteis so that in the interest of Science we can see what happens?
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
I already asked some and they said they wouldn't do my trade.
It just goes to show you how pathetic it can be when someone overvalues their own players like those Thunder fans do with Westbrook.
Follow me on Twitter @timallenonline
I must say
I’m a little surprised at the results of the poll so far. My guess is that in a few years this survey will be put in the same category as Would you trade Al Jefferson for Luol Deng and Joakim Noah?
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Spanish Care Bear
trumps prickly selfish jerk. It’s a popularity contest.
by Madison Dan on Dec 29, 2011 11:03 AM CST up reply actions
Is that the same one
who apparently can’t start in either Europe or in the NBA?
I keed, and I would wince if he were traded away. But he is only 2 years younger than Westbrook, and if Westbrook had Rubio’s personality the question of OKC trading Westbrook would be moot.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Aaron Rodgers sat on the bench for nearly a full three seasons
before he was good enough to start. Packers should’ve traded him when they had the chance. Now they’re stuck.
Follow me on Twitter @timallenonline
by TimAllen on Dec 29, 2011 11:12 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
He'll be begging to come to
the Vikings by next year.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Voted yes
because a Westbrook-Love combo is as close to perfect basketball chemistry as is imaginable. Andy they were f’ing college roommates!
In a perfect world, Russ would make the Iverson-like shift over to the two, we keep Ricky Rubio, and championships follow. I suppose the trade would be centered around Luke Ridnour (don’t laugh, he’s not a bad point for OKC with Harden and Durant next to him) and Derrick Williams as an interior scorer starting his rookie deal.
With Harden emerging more by each day, a Westbrook trade hardly seems unrealistic. Presti is usually one step ahead of his peers and in this case that might mean getting out in front of this before it truly boils over.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
*And they were roommates--
I wasn’t writing to myself there.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
by Andy G on Dec 29, 2011 11:07 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Yes,
I invested in one for my son as well. I hope he doesn’t catch me trying it on.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
so the rumors are true...
PD has procreated
Pek apologist
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Dec 30, 2011 11:35 AM CST up reply actions
I would trade anybody but Love, And Rubio, for Westbrook.
I don’t like Westbrook or his game, but a Rubio/Westbrook/Love trio would be nice.
Of course, that would mean the OKC wouldn’t mind a pu-pu platter of Wes, Beas, Williams, some balls, an elliptical machine, and seven glorious hookers for Westbrook. Never gonna happen.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Dec 29, 2011 11:09 AM CST reply actions
As well as the elliptical machine
…the ‘gloriousness’ of the hookers was subjective
Lob City? I prefer Skip-pass County.
What kind of felonies are we talking here?
I’d consider Forgery and Imbezzlement for RW, but I think Rape and Murder may be too much. Can I order league pass in prison?
Michael Beasley is a Small Forward. Derrick Williams is a Power Forward.
I thought he was going to post an illegal stream in Friday's game thread.
Follow me on Twitter @timallenonline
Flagged.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
The kind where I run a bank into the ground...
…get a multi million dollar golden parachute, have the bank bailed out, and then get to live in the Hamptons for the rest of my life. That felony. Where can I sign up for that?
You have to be
John Galt.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
You should take
your daughters this time.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Word of advice:
Don’t let your children watch the “conception” scene in ANY movie, no matter how artfully done, and if it was your wife’s idea to have you rent the movie.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
The one exception:
The conception scene in Rosemary’s Baby.
Every child must be made aware of what can go wrong when Satan participates in an orgy.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Dec 29, 2011 2:25 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not all that bothered by scratches on my back and arms
and is it an orgy if everyone else watches while you have sex with the Devil?
Too hot to handle, too cold to hold
They're called the Ghostbusters and they're in control
You can only sign up
In a legacy dorm at a select few Ivy league colleges
Michael Beasley is a Small Forward. Derrick Williams is a Power Forward.
You don't sign up for that deal, the Illuminati recruits you in college.
Yeah, I seen The Skulls, what of it?
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Dec 29, 2011 11:36 AM CST up reply actions
Hmmm . . .
Looks interesting.
“Tell me, Wells Fargo HR person, just out of curiosity, what are your policies on spending hours each day on a non-work-related NBA team website?”
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Voted yes but forgot about Williams
Way to soon to tell. I was mainly thinking Rubio + pieces for Westbrook but didn’t consider the cost of trading Derrick Williams as well. If it was Rubio/ Beasley and parts I would make that trade in a heartbeat. I think if you want to root for a winning potentially great team you put likeability a ways down the priority list.
Frances Amthor: I think you're a very stupid person. You look stupid, you're in a stupid business, and you're on a stupid case.
Philip Marlowe: I get it. I'm stupid Farewell My Lovely (1975)
And in this vein I get what I want how I want it because I am the customer. You might want to remember that you thieving scumbag mongrel bitches.
nate21h@evilcowtowninc.com
Why is it too soon for Williams?
Assuming he becomes an all-star while on his rookie deal that makes him RW peer not his superior. Factoring in how unlikely that is ….what are we waiting on again.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
How RickWill
is going to become an All Star while Kevin Love is on this team, I’m not so sure.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
RickWill
= RW + Ibaka. That’s the deal if Williams is thrown in.
by Dr. Wolfenstein on Dec 29, 2011 11:53 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
No worries. I've got it all plotted out.
Tim Duncan retires.
Blake Griffin gets hit by a Kia (still voted in, but needs a medical replacement)
LMA gets this spot
Dirk and Pau get deported thanks to tougher immigration policies.
Z-Bo gets snubbed for no good reason.
Love gets voted in.
And RickWill gets the reserve spot by outplaying. Scola, David Lee, Carl Landry, Derrick Favors, Paul Milsap, Iblocka and Hickson etc
I mean come on its fool proof!!!
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
Plus,
the many PFs drafted in the next year or two.
I like the cut of your jib.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Yeah I don't mind the Williams aspect of it
I’m a huge fan and think he’ll be a great player, but I’m not against getting a All-Star guard for him
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 29, 2011 12:47 PM CST up reply actions
I apologize for not reading the whole discussion
but my reaction to this post is that after seeing Westbrook tank last night, I have no idea why any Wolves fan would ever want Michael Beasley running the point. (And yes, that remark was very unfair to Beasley who has never been as bad as Westbrook on a bad night.)
I’d rather have Jonny Flynn back than put up with a chukker who has such horrendous off nights.
Correr como un lobo.
"I’d rather have Jonny Flynn back than put up with a chukker who has such horrendous off nights"
Partaking in a little Christmas Cannibis, are we?
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
As a matter of fact
while the rest of you were celebrating brown Christmases, I was celebrating my guy finally graduating from brown to green.
I have to be sure to start the game first because sometimes I have trouble finding my chair afterwards.
Correr como un lobo.
I have changed my mind
Yes you do this deal (which I have always said) and don’t worry about it (which is the new aspect).
Neither is a top 10 player in the NBA, but arguably the Celtics didn’t have a top 10 player either when they won, they had 3 in the 10-30 range.
The 3rd guy is gonna be the easiest to find and we have a ton of 2nd round picks to draft role players with (hopefully we can keep Malcom Lee :-p) and we’ll soon get our first round picks after 2012, which should give us a nice 7 year window.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Weird thread.
Make sure you all make a sacrifice tonight to our magical unicorn for this heresy.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Dec 29, 2011 1:33 PM CST reply actions
Check
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
No.
Won’t they ask for Rubio if we’ll trade anybody beside Love?
When talking trades
It’s interesting how acquiring our guys always makes the other team better even when there is no hope for them helping us.
Boom
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/34805/why-westbrook-wont-work-in-okc
Let the trade rumors around the league begin!
This will certainly make the No % increase.
Reduce turnovers, reduce personal fouls, shoot better, win.
RW plus Nazr Mohamed for Luke and Beasley actually results in a -2 wins for us and +4 wins for OKC. WTH?
Ziller's got a good take on the Westbrook/Durant "problem"
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Dec 29, 2011 2:51 PM CST reply actions
Between the yuk in Milwaukee and the looming Heat
I’ve been trying to regain my dreamy, fantasy Wolves mentality. By the way what’s up with the two consecutive off days, can’t Stern do anything right? Yesterday i was reading the thread about the Jefferson lead teams vs the Love lead teams, and SNP was remarking about how Love had come back at the beginning of every year with an improved game, and I wondered what will Kevin add next summer? So the proximity of ALJeff to KLove’s summer made me think, What if Love adds Al’s amazing ability to score from the post? Oh man! Then there’s Ricky’s steals. Ricky and Kev. Stockton and Malone. Oh yeah, I’m back there, I’m just going to float off here…
The Heat are due for a loss
We are better at PG and PF than they are!!!!
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I would have to say yes
somewhat reluctantly, because I like Rubes and Willie. But Love and Westbrook together…Burn the rest of it down and rebuild with those two as the foundation. FIRE Kahn because he still isn’t even an average GM IMO. Keep Adelman.
For the loser now
Will be later to win
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