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Around SBN: Is Adebayor About To Become A Full-Time Spur?

Acquiring Good Players, Plausibly (debatable).



I would like for this to turn into a place where if you have a way to plausibly acquire good players to play with Love and Rubio you are welcome to join the discussion and add a trade you think is likely too happen.

I've got two big ideas that I think could plausibly happen to do SnP's old "get two above average players to play with Love" concept that I am actually starting to rally behind. Feel free to debate whether these are possible or whether you even think the players I am suggesting are even good (one for sure will probably be questioned).

1st) Josh Smith: Bill Simmons has been obsessed with the Wolves getting Josh Smith for about a year, not sure why but almost every time he brings up the Hawks he says "I could see them doing something desperate like trading Smith the Wolves for Wes Johnson or Michael Beasley."

I don't think it's completely implausible that Josh Smith could be gotten for a package less than what he is worth as a player. For similar reasons as there was a debate about Westbrook's availability, Smith is not known for being the all-time best teammate and makes some pretty poor decisions offensively. In saying all that he is a PER monster and could easily play the 4 with Love rotating to the 5.

I've heard enough people say Beasley has no trade value so I will not go with Wes/Beast but I will switch Beasley with Randolph. This trade works salary wise: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7b735ov

Why would the Hawks do this? Cut salary and get a knucklehead off their team? Randolph also has proven that when he plays a lot he does produce (however I really cannot stand watching him play, never passes) and maybe there is still a delusional of Wes Johnson being a 3 in the NBA.

Other pieces to add if our end is not enough: Darko, because they've never had a 7 footer, Horford playing with a 7 footer with a pulse could be unbelievable. Anthony Tolliver, because he's one of the few good players on our roster, And potentially our Utah pick (it's a fair joke that once you are adding protected picks you know the trade isn't that good)

2.) Andre Iguodoua http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=8yt9phv

If we can acquire Josh Smith without giving up Williams (which should be plausible) I think that makes acquiring Andre Iguodoua fairly simple. Williams is the cornerstone of the trade and the reason this deal is plausible. There are always hints that the Sixers would like to get out of Iggy's contract but then they end up "denying" those rumors (I tend to believe if there is some smoke there is some fire), it's a big contract for a guy who is good but not great....but he is good. He's a fringe All-Star SG who can defend anyone, he can kind of create his own shot and he would play really well in a back-court with Rubio.

Why would the Sixers do this? Well Williams is a 4 with talent and they are always on the look out for frountcourt help, plus they would clear out their backcourt roster glut (We're such a good trading partner). Plus they get Ridnour who is a very solid back up to Holiday

So if we could make both of these deals we would have a core 4 of Rubio/Iggy/Smith/Love, we'd still have Beasley, whom I believe is a pretty no-lose situation, either he turns it around this year or he is a free agent and goes unsigned in the off-season. And we have a bench of Tolliver, Barea, Lee (and maybe Mareese Speights)

That would be a good team, with two quality defensive players who bring it offensively as well.

Thoughts on these deals? Do you have any pick ups that seem plausible of your own that you want to throw out?

Comment 69 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Kevin Martin at the trade deadline feels like a foregone conclusion

Dunno the package it takes, but I’m sure Adelman makes this happen. A guy he loves at a position we desperately need to upgrade (and who was already nearly traded before the season).

by deus04 on Dec 30, 2011 10:39 AM CST via mobile reply actions  

They've played two games

He was 1-10 in the first game, but then he put up 25 points on 10-17 shooting in 24 minutes against the Spurs. He’s fine.

by Madison Dan on Dec 30, 2011 3:14 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't love Martin

but saying “he’s had some horrible games already this season”

is a bit of a stretch

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Dec 30, 2011 4:04 PM CST up reply actions  

As discussed in the Love thread

Salmons in a salary dump. Keep in mind that the more you like a deal, the less likely it is to happen. This deal seems pretty plausible, and not all that likeable.

by Madison Dan on Dec 30, 2011 10:53 AM CST reply actions  

I would love either of these trades...

but neither seems plausible. I am consistently surprised by some of the trades that happen in the NBA, but it is hard to imagine the other teams biting on either of these proposals.

We would be very good after the 76ers trade. Especially if we picked up another mediocre wing with Beasley, through free agency, or as a salary dump. Rubio/Bogans/Iggy/Love/Speights with Barrea first man off the bench would be an underdog contender. I really really like Iggy.

I don’t understand why Simmons has the Wolves pining for Josh Smith of all people. He is clearly a 4, but I guess if we assume Love can play the 5 most nights (I do), he does make a great pairing with both Love and Rubio. Rubio/Barrea/Beasley/Smith/Love with Ridnour first off the bench is a strong team, but there is still a giant vacuum of suck at the wings. Again, some bargain-bin shopping could make that a definite playoff team.

These trades may not be possible, but they are exactly the kind of trades I hope Kahn (or RJ) is on the phone about. Iggy is my top candidate, but until ET starts to play well, I don’t see why he would be attainable. Kevin Martin is also attractive, but deeply flawed in terms of defense and durability (although I think most of his injuries were “unlucky” rather than symptomatic).

Gortat and Dudley for a Williams centered package is another option I really really like. Phoenix is due for a blow-up, and the AZ connection of Williams must be appealing. On the Wolves’ end, it would give us a pretty huge instant upgrade at two positions.
Rubio/Barrea/Dudley/Love/Gortat with Ridnour first off the bench would be a very good team. A little bargain bin shopping for depth at the wings and I think we could hang with almost anyone.

by vjl110 on Dec 30, 2011 10:58 AM CST reply actions  

Can we get him w/o Williams?

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Dec 30, 2011 11:02 AM CST up reply actions  

No.

Note the contracts as well. Gortat and Dudley are both locked into very reasonable contracts throughout the prime of their respective careers. That is not something to shake a stick at. Two quality starters at non-Love/Rubio positions on reasonable contracts for the next 3 and 5 years. That is how you build a winner.

by vjl110 on Dec 30, 2011 11:27 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Yep.

Two very Adelmannish players, and in another good sign, the exact opposite of the “I WANNA SEE SOME DUNKS!” kind of players that rubes love. If we accept/admit/believe that Kahn & Co. had no intention of keeping RickWill (and I hope to god that’s true), this is by far the best deal they can get. My only question is, “Why does Phoenix want Webster?”.

This trade also leaves room to move some combination of Beasley, Luke, and AR for a scoring 2. Then a line-up of

Rubio/Barea
Scoring 2/Barea/Lee
Dudley/Wes
Love/Tolliver
Gortat/Darko

becomes a very high BBIQ team, with solid defensive tendencies.

Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":

Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie

MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn

by PoorDick on Dec 30, 2011 12:37 PM CST up reply actions  

In this deal, I think

Webster is a contract that is not guaranteed next year, not a player they care about.

by Madison Dan on Dec 30, 2011 12:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Exactly..

Webster is a contract in this situation.

by vjl110 on Dec 30, 2011 1:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Also!

Phoenix has a brutal upcoming schedule in January, which could bury them before the All Star game. They’ll first start listening to offers for Nash, and once he’s gone, it seems every other decent veteran would be up for grabs.

Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":

Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie

MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn

by PoorDick on Dec 30, 2011 12:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Can Dudley play the 2?

What’s his ‘best’ position anyway?

by Boss10 on Dec 30, 2011 12:14 PM CST up reply actions  

I like this.

The Arizona connection does help the plausibility factor.

by Madison Dan on Dec 30, 2011 11:04 AM CST up reply actions  

This might be a dumb question

But what is Dudley good at?

He seems like an okay shooter and a great teammate, but it doesn’t appear like he has a tone of skills that stand out.

Does he play defense? Can he handle the rock?

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Dec 30, 2011 11:07 AM CST up reply actions  

ton not tone

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Dec 30, 2011 11:07 AM CST up reply actions  

He's a "jack of all trades, master of none"...

kind of player. Low usage high efficiency shooter. Most of his attempts are at the rim or out on the perimeter. He can move the ball around and rarely turns it over. He rebounds quite well for a 3. I can’t really speak to his defense. He is widely considered a “smart” player, and as you said a “good teammate.”

Dudley is not a star, but he is absolutely good enough to start on a contending team.

by vjl110 on Dec 30, 2011 11:23 AM CST up reply actions  

How about Childress instead of Dudley?

He had some very productive years in ATL (above average PER and WS/48).

by Boss10 on Dec 30, 2011 12:21 PM CST up reply actions  

This seems far more likely as the option available

Dudley is a huge fan favorite

Michael Beasley is a Small Forward. Derrick Williams is a Power Forward.

by Ebomb on Dec 30, 2011 12:41 PM CST up reply actions  

He, like Gortat,

will be in his 30s before Phoenix is relevant again. Williams will make Suns fans forget all about Jared Dudley.

Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":

Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie

MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn

by PoorDick on Dec 30, 2011 12:44 PM CST up reply actions  

How about

Both?

Shedding Childress’ salary has to be attractive for Phoenix if it plans to rebuild.

Michael Beasley is a Small Forward. Derrick Williams is a Power Forward.

by Ebomb on Dec 30, 2011 1:08 PM CST up reply actions  

This Trade Failed

by Boss10 on Dec 30, 2011 2:45 PM CST up reply actions  

That's because

he’s playing for free.

Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":

Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie

MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn

by PoorDick on Dec 30, 2011 3:06 PM CST up reply actions  

We should

probably hang on to him then

by Dumbhead62 on Dec 30, 2011 3:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Or

depending on how the Gortat proposal goes over, we could go another direction. This trade assumes we get the PHX first rounder next year.

I’m not a fan of Childress, but he’s better than anything we have currently.

Lob City? I prefer Skip-pass County.

by nodnarb on Dec 31, 2011 11:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh Hell YES!

I’ve decided to stop pretending to know what the hell I’m talking about when it comes to NBA trades, but Love + Rubio + Gortat would be a great start to a team and I’ll accept Dudley to make it happen.

To totally disregard my previous statement, I think the major blockade here is if Gortat goes, Nash has no reason to keep playing.

by zebano on Jan 1, 2012 1:25 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, I think I was going for

“Plausible” and not so much “Probable”

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Dec 30, 2011 11:01 AM CST up reply actions  

I like Martin

if we can get him without trading Williams

Don’t like him as much if we have to trade Williams….I think we should be able to get something better than Martin for him.

Smith/Love would be a good post duo I think….we’d still want a Darko coming off the bench….but I totally think it could work

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Dec 30, 2011 11:05 AM CST up reply actions  

I would be interested in getting Martin plus doing the Gortat/Dudley deal though

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Dec 30, 2011 11:11 AM CST up reply actions  

Assuming Houston will give Martin away for a Wes + Pek package...

Rubio/Martin/Dudley/Love/Gortat with Barrea, Ridnour, and Tolliver on the bench is a team I would love to watch. The defense would make a title very unlikely, but they would be a lock for the playoffs and could cause some serious damage when they got there.

by vjl110 on Dec 30, 2011 11:31 AM CST up reply actions  

Oops

I posted above on the same topic. The Wes/Pek thing would probably have to include a lotto protected first, and quite-frankly, I don’t care.

Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":

Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie

MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn

by PoorDick on Dec 30, 2011 12:40 PM CST up reply actions  

That's a trade you do

as long as the pick is lotto protected for infinity

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Dec 30, 2011 4:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Trades that would make us instantly as playoff caliber team

If we could create a deal in which we give up Beasley and Pekovic for Martin and THEN do a deal that gets us Gortat and Dudley (or Childress) for Williams, we would be such an improved team that my heart might actually stop. Our lineup would be…

PG Rubio, Ridnour
SG Martin, Barea
SF Dudley, Webster
PF Love, Randolph
C Gortat, Milicic

I would LOVE that lineup. We’d have balance and we’d have a great starting lineup AND several high quality backups. That’s a team that can do some damage in the postseason.

by DTrim on Dec 31, 2011 12:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, it's good

I like the idea of getting Childress too

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Dec 31, 2011 1:54 PM CST up reply actions  

so basically

just give them the Utah pick then?

Lob City? I prefer Skip-pass County.

by nodnarb on Dec 31, 2011 11:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Both Iggy and (surprisingly) Smith are good passers for their position, to boot. Pair those two with Love and Rubio, and maybe Adelman could then really bring back that Princeton-Offense-on-Speed thing he had in Sac. Not as much shooting as those Sacramento teams at this point, but they mught have more slashers/FTAs to make up for it.

I agree neither of these deals are probable, but they’re probably not impossible, either. Never underestimate non-basketball motives in NBA transactions. A Rubio/Iggy/Smith/Love unit would be hella fun, and they’d really only be just a shooter away from being a serious handful most nights (see: Opening night; Dequan Cook). I made a joke about trading ANT for Xavier Henry in the Evan Turner thread, but in this scenario…well, you can make an argument that it makes more sense to give desperation minutes to a guy like Henry (particularly given the bar ain’t that high around here to begin with) than to let Randolph deteriorate on the bench…

Plus, there’s still no conventional “go to” guy on that team, meaning we can continue that particular experiment/debate!

I would even get bold and ask for a future first in a Williams/Wes for Iggy deal. Rumors are just that, but IIRC, wasn’t there some predraft scuttlebutt about Iggy + #16 for #2 + Wes? Maybe that’s getting my head out over my skis, but you never know unless you ask….

by jianfu on Dec 30, 2011 12:08 PM CST up reply actions  

That Iggy for Williams+ trade is not good for either team.

Iggy takes the ball out of Rubios hands while Williams is simply a rookie Thad Young.

"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!

by caseycheesecake on Dec 30, 2011 12:18 PM CST reply actions  

Shhhh . . .

(let us complete the trade first).

How’s Jimmer looking so far?

Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":

Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie

MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn

by PoorDick on Dec 30, 2011 12:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Take a look at their roster

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAC/2012.html

And scroll down to DMC. First look at his ws/48. Now look at his PER. I have high hopes for this stat clash.

by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 30, 2011 1:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Heh--

And Donte Green should retire with all of his advanced stat records intact.

Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":

Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie

MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn

by PoorDick on Dec 30, 2011 1:40 PM CST up reply actions  

What do u think that means?

Highly talented but an idiot? Much like the scouting report said?

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Dec 30, 2011 2:52 PM CST up reply actions  

What stat clash?

"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!

by caseycheesecake on Dec 30, 2011 11:16 PM CST up reply actions  

hmm

so we should have taken a run at Thornton after all.

by zebano on Jan 1, 2012 1:29 AM CST up reply actions  

He's focusing too much on facilitating the offense

instead of shooting his open shots. Other than that, he’s doing pretty good.

"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!

by caseycheesecake on Dec 30, 2011 11:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Here's a plausible way we could land Gortat, Dudley, and K-Mart

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=84gttzg

I agree that Phoenix needs to blow up. D-Will would be a highly marketable figure for the Suns as he still has a large Wildcat fan-base.

by unidos_corremos on Dec 30, 2011 12:56 PM CST reply actions  

I don't think Houston does that deal.

It doesn’t give them enough salary cap relief or talent.

by Madison Dan on Dec 30, 2011 1:02 PM CST up reply actions  

It probably has to be something like

MIN

Martin, Dudley, Gortat, Childress

HOU

Beasley, Pek, Webster

PHO

Williams, Wes, AR, Miller/Luke

Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":

Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie

MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn

by PoorDick on Dec 30, 2011 2:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Well I tried my best to find reasonable ways to get good players W/O Kevin Martin

but every conversation eventually turns into getting Kevin Martin lol.

Seems like he is the best “gettable” 2 guard available…..so much rather have Iggy though

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Dec 30, 2011 2:54 PM CST reply actions  

Iggy and Rubio would be a terrible duo.

No 3 point shooting, defenses would just sag off them and dare them to shoot while doubling up on Love in the paint, clogging the lane and making drives to the basket impossible.

Iggy needs a back court mate like Stephen Curry to fully maximize his style.

The smarter you are, the more likely you are to be tripping balls at any given moment.
Bring Back Dre.

by gtbassett on Dec 30, 2011 3:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Love is a 40 percent three point shooter

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Dec 30, 2011 3:12 PM CST up reply actions  

And having a back court tandem that shoots below 30% is going to clog the lane...

The smarter you are, the more likely you are to be tripping balls at any given moment.
Bring Back Dre.

by gtbassett on Dec 30, 2011 7:58 PM CST up reply actions  

We can dispense with the tired meme of "Defenses sagging off of Rubio"

Watch what happens when a defense allows Rubio to make easy passes to teammates cutting to the hoop.

Teams won’t be willing to let Rubio get anything even approaching a clear look in a halfcourt set, as was evidenced by the double teams he drew from the Heat last night.

by nextmove on Dec 31, 2011 5:56 PM CST up reply actions  

If NOLA is down you do this tomorrow

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Dec 30, 2011 4:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Much rather have Gortat and Dudley...

For DWill and anyone not named Rubio, Love, Barea or Tolliver. Then look for a SG.

Timberwolves' record: Undefeated (5-11, if you go by so-called "Advanced Stats")

by Wolf21 on Dec 30, 2011 5:10 PM CST reply actions  

or

Lopez and Childress.

Lob City? I prefer Skip-pass County.

by nodnarb on Dec 31, 2011 11:42 PM CST up reply actions  

very true.

and/or unprotected first round picks…which is what I was thinking, unfortunately for everyone not in my head, didn’t type :)

Lob City? I prefer Skip-pass County.

by nodnarb on Jan 1, 2012 1:47 AM CST up reply actions  

honestly...at this stage

I’ll take Matt Carroll and the Manther for RickWill and Ellington.

That’s where I’m at right now. Matt fucking Carroll.

Lob City? I prefer Skip-pass County.

by nodnarb on Dec 30, 2011 6:45 PM CST reply actions  

No Point

in making a trade if you don’t get the best player in the trade! I am not interested in trading any player on our roster if we don’t get an all-star caliber player in return.

by SheaBo on Dec 31, 2011 12:54 AM CST reply actions  

Understood

But Gortat is REALLY good. He plays good defense and is a rebounding machine. Currently, the only above-average rebounder we have on the team is Love and maybe Rubio. Gortat fills a HUGE need, a defensive anchor that isn’t an offensive nightmare. True, he’s not a rim protector, but he’s a good defender, a solid passer and he has an INSANE WS/48. Dudley is also a credible NBA player. He is a great 3-pt shooter (over 40%) and is a smart basketball player and a good passer. They may not be sexy players, but they make our team more than just a little better.

by DTrim on Dec 31, 2011 8:56 AM CST up reply actions  

I love them both....trading Williams for them makes me nervous though

Whether Williams can fit with Love or not…..I think if you make that deal you are trading awfully low on what this guy could eventually get you.

I look at the way he played vs the Heat and he’s up against LeBron, Bosh and Wade and he is as confident and savvy as any wolf out there in crunch time. Got us two huge buckets….the guy has a supreme amount of offensive ability and if you’re patient with him I think at the very worst he will get you an All-Star in the future through trade

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Dec 31, 2011 9:28 AM CST up reply actions  

I wonder if there is a smaller trade to be made with PHX

like getting Lopez and Childress for Johnson and Pek or something

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 1, 2012 9:53 AM CST reply actions  

Evan Turner

How about Wes and Pek for Turner and Nocioni? Philly has good depth at guard but lacks front court depth. They would somewhat save face by acquiring the 4th pick in the draft and give the team a better fit assuming Wes can actually hit a three and space the floor. Pek is a nice relatively cheap bench big. They would also save approx 3m by us picking up Nocioni for the rest of year, team option that would not be exercised next year. So for the wolves, I think ET would be an upgrade and potentially some nice cap space next year. Does Philly say yes? If no would you toss in a Mem or UT first.

by Winston Wolf on Jan 1, 2012 10:43 AM CST reply actions  

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    Authors

    Small SG

    Hrbek_small Jon Marthaler