Unicorns exist!
by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 31, 2011 9:29 AM CST
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PrintFirst of all, congratulations to the Heat. After last season it should have been harder to become more unlikable than to actually win a title in a shortened season, but somehow you accomplished this goal by acquiring former Dookie and human car-dealership-inflatable-floppy-thing Shane Battier. At least he fits into the general ugliness of the team with his brain bumps. And yes, I stoop to name calling and comments about looks with the Heat. As a fan and member of the have-nots, this is my childish right. It's in the Constitution. Look it up.
All of that being said, let's get one thing out of the way before we continue with the Spanish Unicorn: The Wolves did not lose this game because of poor officiating. The Miami Heat shot 8 free throws in the 1st half, 0 in the 3rd quarter, and 6 in the 4th. The Wolves got to the line at a .145 to .086 clip. Kevin Love jumped sideways into Shane Battier and got a call (he's starting to pick up calls). Yes, the Tolliver call was brutal (it's even worse watching it back on Synergy) but the Wolves lost this game for 2 simple reasons: turnovers and a general lack of talent.
More below the fold.
A team as talent-deprived as the Wolves simply cannot afford to let teams like the Bucks, leave alone the Heat, 10+ extra possessions per game and expect to win. Forget the final score, the bad call, and the idea that the Wolves had a shot to win/tie at the end. None of that matters like the turnovers.
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Four Factors |
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|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Pace | eFG% | TOV% | ORB% | FT/FGA | ORtg | |
| MIA | 103.6 | .511 | 13.1 | 19.6 | .086 | 99.4 |
| MIN | 103.6 | .536 | 21.4 | 26.7 | .145 | 97.5 |
How much clearer can the turnover issue be?
|
Four Factors |
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|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Pace | eFG% | TOV% | ORB% | FT/FGA | ORtg | |
| MIN | 97.0 | .443 | 21.8 | 35.6 | .471 | 98.0 |
| MIL | 97.0 | .436 | 10.5 | 29.6 | .170 | |
The Wolves, with basically just Kevin Love and (hooray!) the Spanish Unicorn are outplaying teams on the boards, at the line, from the field, and....oi.
Last night the two worst offenders were Love and Rubio, with a combined 11 turnovers. Part of the reason for this high number is the way in which the Heat approached the second half. They saw what Love and Rubio did with the ball in the first 1/2 (whatever they wanted to do with it) and then spent the 2nd half throwing athletic wing player double team after athletic wing player double team after the Wolves' 2 best players. It got to the point where...wait for it...they put LeBron on Rubio near the end of the game.
Unicorns. Believe.
What was even more interesting than the Heat's approach to beating the Wolves was the way in which Rubio responded. The Heat clearly saw very early on that the Spanish Unicorn can run the living hell out of the pick and roll. They saw very early on that the tired meme of "he can't shoot" doesn't matter with this particular player. He doesn't have to shoot when he finds open players who can. The passing is that good.
When they ran two big wing players at him, the Wolves responded by sending 3 players out beyond the arc, and then the big dashed out for a pick and roll. When Rubio would clear the pick, the big would dash towards the lane and then Rubio would drop a pass to the player who lost his man running towards the big in the lane. This was the 2nd half offense. It exists for only 1 player. A rookie. In his 3rd game. (Actually, at this point, we should probably stop the rookie bit. He's as much of a rookie as Ichiro was.)
That being said, he had an enormous TO% (37) and if he has too many more 4 to quarters, the unicorn luster will quickly start to wear off.
Now let's talk about elephants. 3 starters played under 18 minutes. They played an entire game a single functional guard. As much as it seemed like Wayne Ellington was having a good game, he shot 5-13 (1-6 from deep) with 1 assist and no trips to the line. It seemed like he played well because the guy he replaced is one of the very worst players in professional basketball.
My favorite Wes "NBA Ready" Johnson moment of the night came when he thought he was fouled on a 3 point attempt. He promptly argued with the ref while the guy who blocked the shot, Dwayne Wade, motored down the court for an easy dunk. This play neatly sums up what the team has in Johnson: A 24 1/2 year old 2nd year player who is supposed to make 3s and defend who can't actually do these things. But hey, he looks like he can and that's what really matters.
Speaking of pretty things, over at Four Letter they had a debate about who is better: Chris Bosh or Kevin Love? The verdict:
"...Bosh has a more varied game...Feed the ball to Bosh at 18 feet and he can make any number of things happen...Bosh is more offensively skilled...[and so on and so forth]
There were obligatory references to Love's supposed terrible defense and even a comment about how Love's statistics are better, but not his game.
Ugh.
Last night was just about a pitch-perfect example of why this sort of reasoning is just garbage. Guess what, it doesn't really matter how pretty you can put that little orange ball through the hoop. Love ended the game with a TS% of .578 compared to Bosh's .529. He out-rebounded Bosh, passed better, and was more efficient. Love definitely lost the turnover competition but he doesn't get the benefit of playing alongside the 2 best players on the planet. Can you imagine Love on the Heat? Trailing for 3, letting LeBron and Wade really terrorize things far away from the basket because the boards are taken care of...it would be silly.
I'm not sure what else Kevin Love has to do at this point to get recognition as a top flight player above and beyond someone like Bosh. The NBA Geek lays it out well here:
So, Love appears to be better than Bosh in the following per48 categories: points, assists (yo, passing is part of "scoring", right?), eFG%, 3FG%, TS%, FT% and FTA (on the same number of FGAs, it should be noted; it's not just volume). Holy shit, I sure wish I could have Bosh's offensive production instead of Kevin Love's. For the record, I love Bosh, he's on my fantasy team and I bid highly for him. But I would give up Bosh for Love in a ****ing heartbeat before the other GM reconsidered and said "Wait, WTF am I thinking!?" (yes, in real life too, not just my fantasy league), because offensively I get the same results but I get a bunch of extra rebounds a game (before anyone pipes up about "stealing" rebounds: you're wrong, WP48 already counts stolen rebounds: read the FAQ).
Once again for the slow kids: The ugly baskets count too. As an aside, I am like 15-0 in pickup basketball games where I am the captain and I pick 2nd (getting picks 2 and 3 from the gym) and I know the players. This is because my opponent always takes the flashiest, most athletic wing scorer. Then I pick two flat-footed tall guys who rebound the [****] out of the ball, don't take bad shots, and basically rock a lot of put-backs, layups, and other spectacularly BOOOOOOOOORRRRRING buckets.
Anywho, back to the talent bit: the Wolves don't have a 2 guard. They don't have a wing player worth anything at all. Wes and Beas aren't good at professional basketball. Moving down the roster, Darko isn't good at professional basketball. Pek isn't good at professional basketball (on this side of the Atlantic, at least).
What this leaves Love (and Rubio!) with is Anthony Tolliver, JJ Barea (when he's healthy), sometimes Luke Ridnour, and the Derrick Williams/Anthony Randolph will-they/won't-they duo. Randolph has a track record of actual production to match his track record of not being able to wrap his head around his talent. Williams is a rookie.
They need a wing player in a bad way. You can apply this statement to each and every single game for the rest of the year. The Love formula needs 1 more player if the Spanish Unicorn has anything to say about it.
Let's wrap this up with random bullet points because I'm rambling and I gots to go.
- As much as I hate the Heat, no visiting player has consistently delivered as many fine performances over the years as has LeBron. Last night was no exception. He's the best player on the planet, playoffs be damned. He is a frightening athlete with outstanding basketball skill. Everyone should be thrilled about the fact that he is who he is: a massive self-centered jagoff who is really good at getting people to dislike him while playing amazing regular-season basketball before crumbling when it matters. It's really a win-win for everybody.
- In the post game presser, Rick Adelman said that he told his players to look for the lob and that they knew the Heat's final play was coming. Ricky has to beef up a bit to fight his way through screens.
- It was kind of fitting that Lindsey Whalen was in attendance last night. No longer is she the best point guard ever to set foot in Minnesota. And yes, this is preposterous on a couple of fronts...I'm just really excited about unicorns.
- The Spanish Unicorn has now gotten in the head of Russell Westbrook, demanded double teams 35 feet from the basket, and drawn the LeBron James Derrick Rose Defensive Special Treatment in 3 games. Please, please, please find a 2 guard or a legit 3. I don't care where he comes from. I don't care if D-Will is immediately flipped or if a team decides to fire sale at the trading deadline. Just get Love and the Spanish Unicorn another running mate who can actually play good ball. (FWIW, just get Love 2 other good players. I don't care how it happens or who that means saying goodbye to. If I was able to say goodbye to the Manther, I can say toodles to a unicorn. I hope the Love/SU combo stays...but I want winning ball now and I think it is well within the resources of this franchise to make that happen. I digress...)
- Speaking of the Manther, he played over 10 minutes last night. Against Howard. It was awesome.
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Free Throws
Thanks Stop-n-Pop, but dude, they just lost very close games to probably the eventual finals teams by just a few points and if they make free throws probably win 1 or 2 of those games. Give em some time.
We can probably blame the 15000 fans
who all chanted “RUBIO” during one of his late game free throws…
by Timberwolf i.e. Albatross on Dec 31, 2011 10:41 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I was one of them...
Sorry….I felt bad but its so hard not to feed off that electricity.
by bringbackbrewer on Dec 31, 2011 11:08 AM CST up reply actions
Oh man...
That was so loud…I knew there was no way that was going in.
by Timberwolf i.e. Albatross on Dec 31, 2011 11:19 AM CST up reply actions
i think the same thing happened
on a love free throw while the crowd was chanting “MVP”
yes...
I can confirm this too. again sorry.
by bringbackbrewer on Dec 31, 2011 12:13 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
Yep...
I was there and not a huge fan of everyone chanting “RUBIO!” and “MVP” for Love… I mean, I was a fan of it, but I knew those 2nd free throws were not going in. Couple those misses with that amazing and-1by Lebron that those refs had no choice but to call… and there you go. Still an amazing game to be at! Hopefully people will be chanting RUBIO sometime when we are up with a large enough margin that free throw misses don’t matter… but when was the last time a Wolves point guard had 12 assists in a game? This is kind of a rambling post… but this will save me from posting multiple times… Oh yeah, and that first and-1 by Lebron in the beginning when he took about 9 steps and made the basket – and they called it a continuation…
Pretty sure at this point in their careers
the crowd isn’t influencing whether the free throws go in.
Disagree strongly
You never hear home fans call out a player’s name when he’s shooting free throws. That had to be an intensely weird moment for Rubio.
What's wrong with the NBA is what's wrong with the USA: too much respect for superstars and not enough for working class heroes.
Answering this question:
but when was the last time a Wolves point guard had 12 assists in a game?
Jonny Flynn had 14 assists in a game last March. A couple of years prior to that, Bassy Telfair had a game like this, and he and Foye added another each in the ’08 and ’09 windows.
But yeah, it’s not been that common, and it was a great sign from Rubio. Anthony Carter put up one such game in a bit of an outlier – I always like AC, the guy played defense and vanilla offensive PG ball – and Sammy had six 12-assist-or-more games here, but we’re already back in 2005 and earlier now. Looking at the list I am struck by Terrell Brandon being much underrated by fans who thought he was soft. Brandon? Had 38 games with 12 assists or more here. Marbury recorded 26. Steph, we hardly knew ye.
"Opinion ...a confession."
by feral on Jan 1, 2012 10:16 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Some more thoughts:
1. Maybe the full house at Target Center and the Lynx games will be enough financial and emotional push to get Glen to overpay the salary of a decent, veteran wing.
2. In that vein, keep an eye on the scoreboard to see which older teams are fading out of playoff contention (I’m looking at you, Phoenix) and have assets that they may want to dump.
3. Team Emo (Beasley, Wes, Luke, and Darko) needs to start coming off the bench, and competing against backups, as soon as possible. It will give the Wolves an advantage, give those guys some long-lost confidence, and hopefully boost their stock for a trade to be made later.
4. Love’s chest-bump of Ricky was the first official acknowledgement that he loves playing with the kid seasoned veteran.
5. One one of Love’s defensive rebounds in the 2nd half, you could hear Rubio trying to get Love’s attention to get the outlet pass—“Kayluv—here!”
6. ESPN has a highlight hard-on for Rubio. Every one of his games has had a video breakdown as part of the evening recap. It’s fun to have the WWL talk about a Minnesota team, without cracking wise about how bad they are.
7. When Battier flopped the 2nd time, I thought “Oh, we’re going to hear about this tomorrow from SnP.”
8. I mentioned it elsewhere, but like Paul George growing two inches in the offseason, I think Martell Webster is also a couple inches taller than he was last year.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
by PoorDick on Dec 31, 2011 9:51 AM CST reply actions 4 recs
Sixers watch
Lost to Utah.
Sixers are the team to keep an eye on. An abundance of wings…not an abundance of post players….we are a match made in heaven
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 31, 2011 10:10 AM CST up reply actions
He has always played best as a PF
So I’m not sure he’s a particularly good fit here.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
We were before the draft last year, too. And yet no Cousins(+)-for-Evan Thomas deal, for one example.
"Opinion ...a confession."
Martell, assuming he can run and (sort of) jump
will be a welcome addition to Adelman’s playing rotation. Starter at the 2, remove Johnson from the rotation entirely. JJB can play a lot of minutes off the bench to go easy on the old man’s bad back.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
agreed
If Martell is in Bball shape and his game is too, I think he is the dark horse at the 2 spot
Pek apologist
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Dec 31, 2011 11:46 AM CST up reply actions
He has been out there before warm-ups each game
shooting around, etc. He really seems eager to come back (and it’s obvious that even a pretty-good-case-scenario Martell Webster could help this team a whole lot), so I hope he doesn’t force it. I am wilidly pessimistic about his injury though, from all we’ve heard.
I saw that too
He didnt look like anything was bothering him and he shot and handled the ball well. I’ve recently recovered from a herniated disc and I am optimistic Martell can too.
just wanted to say
i loved this post. team emo ftl.
by illwafer on Dec 31, 2011 11:56 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Rubio was fun! Other than Love and Darko, the other guys gotta see the court better and make the better pass.
I think the wolves lost because of lack of team smarts. That rook Williams jacked up too many shots in transition which looked like they were completely out of his skill set, yet he threw them up anyways. I am a spurs guy. Rubio reminded me of a young Manu seeing plays on the court two moves ahead of everyone. They others guys on the team have to improve bball iq so that this kid can be creative.
I think in the post you said you wouldn’t mind if Rubio was traded so that Love can win now. I think losing special talent is a big mistake, especially when Love is young(he is right?).
Yes. But crucial possessions are just that, late in the game. You have to be smart enough to get a basket or foul call off it. Not using shot clock, or throwing up the shot before having your team in place for rebounds etc is just not smart. These instances hurt the Twolves yesterday I think.
I would have subbed AR for Love
He’s a little better at blocking shots and protecting the rim. I know rebounding a miss is important but there’s no way Love was getting it because he took himself out of the play by defending Bosh well outside the 3pt line.
Love is their best player.....
….and if Rubio gets to be one of the 2 other awesome players, great. However, nothing should stop them from surrounding Love with 2 other awesome players. I dont really care a whole lot who these players are, as long as they are good.
Do you honestly believe Love is that much better than Rubio?
Last year the Wolves won 17 games. They only beat 3 or 4 plus .500 teams. In three games this year Rubio has lead the team to near wins against likely the two best teams in the NBA. And he did this as a sub with no experience in this league. Love’s a beast but I just don’t see him impacting the game like Rubio.
Annnnnnnnnnnddd..... WE'RE OFF!
(This is the first Love versus Rubio I’ve seen, I can only expect a couple million more over the next five years.)
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
by Andy G on Dec 31, 2011 11:58 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Can we officially start noticing when people identify the team's best players as "the problem" yet?
"Opinion ...a confession."
I Miss Those KG is the reason Wolves Don't Win Days
Jim Souhan, the king of that.
They say it's always darkest just before dawn and man, was it dark last year. Come to think of it, I'm not needing my sunglasses this year, either.
Yep
Dan B is a close second place. Damn those players who arent EVERYTHING sports writers want in a single subject. Damn them to hell!
Oh Yeah, Danny Boy
Forgot about him.
They say it's always darkest just before dawn and man, was it dark last year. Come to think of it, I'm not needing my sunglasses this year, either.
Barreiro is phoning it in these days, from the little I hear.
I must have flipped past a Ponder topic three or four times. Dan is arguing against some sort of “true believer” set of “Ponder fanatics” whom I have not had the pleasure of encountering except in the form of his caricature. Classic trolling, on any message board.
"Opinion ...a confession."
That has been the worst bit of the year
So far as I can tell this “Ponder Fanatic” he rants about is only a strawman from his imagination. Meanwhile, his guest list is a who’s who of the old and retread.
I know SnP has said it before, but that is the real country club right now in the Twin Cities. Nanne-Mason-Rosenbaum-Kessler-Billick. Repeat each week!
KFAN is Unlistenable
"Vote Ailuridae for Wolves GM"
by Jose Cordoba on Dec 31, 2011 4:46 PM CST up reply actions
I used to enjoy listening to PA and Dubay in the mid-nineties.
And I even liked Chad and Barriero, because Chad was good enough to allow me to tolerate Dan. It would be difficult for me to dislike Common more than I already do. That show is horrible.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Dec 31, 2011 4:53 PM CST up reply actions
a lot of their folks went over to am1500
common has really taken a nose dive, even with the bit. the worst part about the station is how they now bring women on and leer at them. they seem to be trying to morning zoo the whole lineup and the ratings since the fm switch seem to be showing that people like it, so what do i know?
dan b can be a drag and it is definitely funny/ironic that he has his own country club, but he still gets good topical guests from time to time and that is a rare thing on non political radio…which is unfortunately becoming more and more like political radio.
i still really like in the zone. they have the same callers every week. it is kind of old fashiony and out of place.
Also the statement about bringing women on to leer at them
Is a pretty big leap IMO, there is an intern gal bit on Common that they have had fun with, but it’s never struck me as inappropriate or disrespectful. She seems to be pushing it herself. Can’t think of anything else and I listen alot.
Just realized I’m commenting about whether a local radio station is sexist on new years eve, too bad for me :).
Happy new year, keep up the great work.
The morning show is what S-n-P is thinking about.
Let’s just say I’m sort of embarrassed to even know this, but they are not above commenting on her appearance as a way of spending a whole segment. Ha ha!
"Opinion ...a confession."
You shouldn't be embarassed
This morning (SUnday) while listening to KFAN I heard the morning promo and female cohost commenting on enjoying the smell of her flatulance. The guys went off about how crazy this was coming from such a cood looking chick and that here farts probably smell like cinnamin rolls. The morning show is truly embarassing. I only hear what I manage to hear by accident while running through the stations to hear sporting highlights.
it is spreading
females appear with no other purpose than to provide commentary based on the fact that they have boobs. the “female pespective” is a popular segment killer over there. the guys get to giggle and ask innuendo filled questions and, if they are lucky, have one of the girls say somethting sexy enough to make the button bar.
It's like Steve Aschburner never left their air, I guess.
A bigger on-airwaves leerer I don’t remember. He had a weekly segment with Vikings Cheerleaders.
"Opinion ...a confession."
glad i missed that one
pa is the worst right now. there is an underlying creep factor that is off the charts.
I'm glad I missed it too
I like listening to Asch’s bbal insights. He’s usually on Ruesse 1500 on Thurs at 2:30 or so. Ruesse does some leering too, but balances it out nicely with his equally lecherous leering at good looking male athletes
Asch probably tries a lot harder now, after moving on.
On the radio he was pretty dang lazy. Not Common Man lazy. But pretty bad.
"Opinion ...a confession."
That whole station
is garbage. They are killing their station but don’t realize it.
I disagree with all of this
This is all subjective of course, but I laugh at least once during Common every day. I know Dan B often gets his ammo from a very small minority of crazies, but those people do exist. I’m not sure why the fact that Dan has a regular lineup of guests (like many radio hosts do) is ironic or funny at all. It’s not even close to the same thing as his “country club” Wolves bit. That bit would have had no legs if the Wolves were as successful as Dan’s show is. I’m obviously a huge fan of the station (besides PA, who is just a Purple shill) traditional sports talk radio bores me quickly, I enjoy KFAN’s variety. It seems worth noting that Barreiro has plugged this blog a few times, doesn’t mean you can never criticize him, but he is the only local host I’ve heard do that.
If you laugh once a day at Common
I am confident that I will never laugh at one of your posts, and I will probably never find your comments interesting..
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 1, 2012 12:11 AM CST up reply actions
Lol
Ouch I guess. Chuckling at people calling in to correct him about the things he has said specifically to get those types of people to call makes me an uninteresting person apparently.
But for the record
I’m pretty crushed that I’ll never get a laugh out of you on any of my posts. Happy new year
That was overly harsh.
I was being hyperbolic about my hatred of all things Dan Cole. I’ve just never found anything in his show worthy of anyone’s attention.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 1, 2012 12:58 AM CST up reply actions
Common...
My friends tell me there is this cathartic element to listening to Common. To be honest I don’t mind him when he’s talking sports. He always comes across as very uninformed, but that’s his shtick right? It’s when he spends 20 minutes talking about crock pot recipes that I can’t stand it.
I really like Barreiro though simply because he brings up relevant topics and usually presents them pretty fairly. He won’t shy away from his own views, obviously, but he seems to do a good job dealing with differing opinions.
PA is a homer.
SnP’s comments seem to me to apply mostly to the Power Trip and I guess I don’t know why that’s a surprise.
He's clearly not for everyone
But there is an underlying cleverness with that show that is really well hidden by laziness and repetition. I really enjoy “getting the joke” at the expense of some well meaning caller trying to offer a correction.
It is the same joke....
….when someone responds to one of Tim’s game previews with incredulity. The more people who listen/read, the further in between the time where the joke still happens.
Unfortunately, his levels of cleverness seem to be unable to keep up with the growing gaps. (and i agree on the basic premise…i used to really like the show, especially when he came on directly after pre-coke firing duckies and bunnies)
I'll agree the quality has been down the last few months
He’s streaky though. Preposterous statement starts soon, that’s always fun. The one thing that drives me nuts about him are his anti NBA tirades about no defense, only watch the last 2 minutes, blah blah blah. That’s tough to listen to.
Common trolls like no other
When I first started listening to the show I thought he was serious about everything and absolutely hated the show, but after listening to it more over time its become my favorite. SO MANY INSIDE JOKES.
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 1, 2012 5:12 PM CST up reply actions
The thing about Barreiro isn't regular guests,
it’s that he spends all his time assailing “country club” group think in others, but his own producer/sidekick type is nothing but a yes man and he has trouble with even the most slightly contentious guest on the air.
I really think he’d be much better with a co-host to loosen the routine up. Like I said before, he’s not interested enough at this point and he’s phoning it in, in my book.
“The Common Man” is lazy even about his jokes about being lazy. Which comprise the whole show, so….
"Opinion ...a confession."
his (insert subject) terrorist bit is also pretty tired
his schtick is to be the guy in between the clowns on the left and the jokers on the right. like any other practicioner of this dark art, he is always neatly placed in the middle/correct spot.
Barreiro's "Gray area, not one side or the other" fallback must grate at you like Mr. Friedman.
"Opinion ...a confession."
yep
it is the biggest scam in media: neutral observers in the “middle”. if you are going to buy into the idea of a political spectrum that exists on a single left/right (or whatever other bs binary false choice) continuum then every point on that line is just as political as thhe next. wash, rinse, and repeat. if you are concerned about where you live on an imaginary line, then you probably dont care a whole lot about having things that actually work.
also, i am reminded of this
http://jonswift.blogspot.com/2008/06/russert-rule.html
one of my favorite posts on the intertronz. country clubs are bad all around, especially in the media.
Ha ha. That is pretty excellent.
The talking heads I like are ones motivated by, you know, curiosity. The choices you make about who gets on the air shouldn’t be about stepping carefully so as to “balance” things that are really only on that line if you stomp the whole world flat anyway.
Just find topics that interest you, and talk about them. How fricking hard is that?
In terms of KFAN, the brief David Brauer morning show is the only example I can really think of. The Wookie did that, though. When Mahmoud Andul-Rauf had his National Anthem blow-up, Brauer asked “What do sports figures really do, and think about, during the Star Spangled Banner”? The response of a curious person. Imagine!
"Opinion ...a confession."
Agree about In the Zone.
It’s like an old ‘CCO program. I listen a bit on Saturday mornings, before either an ambulance ride or a gym class, and it’s reassuringly familiar.
"Opinion ...a confession."
I guess I’m im the minority. I love the station. I like every show and can’t stand 1500. everything on 1500 is sports sports sports and they have no new takes. common gets funnier with every troll and bit he does. The only thing I hate on kfan is hockey talk.
by bringbackbrewer on Jan 1, 2012 10:45 AM CST via Android app up reply actions
Common is at least good
Everyone else not so much, but Common is usually amazing.
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 1, 2012 5:07 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, I was going to say.
See, and that’s where I would like Dan, is with what amounts to a co-host. Also with the Channel 4 political guy.
"Opinion ...a confession."
Prime example
When remarking on the Twins’ upcoming plans to build a statue to honor Hrbek, Barreiro felt it was a reach (if they weren’t going to honor Frank Viola the same way). Reason: Viola is a regular guest. Hrbek is not. He is a pathetic interviewer and as big a suck-up as their is in sports journalism. Also, in recalling events of the past year and the relative weight of the death of Harmon Kilibrew, he came up sounding distant. His sidekick is to young to have known anything of Kilibrew as a player and Dan is not from around here. To him, Harmon was just another good player. He had absolutely no sense of the way that Harmon was a huge part of the foundation of all pro sports in Minnesota. And the KFAN commentators make a point of dissing the ardor of the sports fans who make their self-important jobs possible. As if being a fan at all is to be a chump. Better to be a whiny put-down artist above the fray. Especially if you never played any sport at all at any level. I am so, so disappointed with the kind of sports programming that exists today vs what it really, truly could be.
by ogishkemuncie on Jan 1, 2012 10:20 AM CST up reply actions
See I just don't think any of this is true
Dan had Hrbek on when the Dome closed and it was a great interview, I think he just values pitchers more. Who cares if he’s not from here?
If that were Dan B and Souhan's worse offenses
They might both be more interesting. Both of them are “radio professionals” that I do occassionally enjoy. But, when Souhan starts his one-liners that he thinks are witty and when Barriero does his man in the middle schtick I have to turn both of them off.
I don’t mind criticising KG and Mauer so much from sports writers. They have to find the angle to make it interesting for fans. What I don’t like are the fans that repeat Barriero’s and Souhans criticism’s as if they were the gospel truth and not something that both simply wrote to entertain the masses. I sincerely imagine both Barriero and Souhan giving wryly smiling and smirking when callers call in ang repeat these inannities back to them.
But, then again, I used to imagine Rush Limbaugh doing the same thing.
i have a friend who worked for a major radio station...
….and his stories about segment development/prep are rather eye opening. there is a lot of time to fill and ratings are pretty cut throat. long story short, the goal for many hosts is to get the listener to think they are smarter than the host while, at the same time, reinforcing the consensus opinion of the key demographic for that channel. i think it certainly appears to be a working formula since we are discussing the stupid parts of a sports radio station we clearly all listen to ;)
mission accomplished, clear channel.
by bringbackbrewer on Jan 1, 2012 10:54 AM CST via Android app up reply actions
You didnt...
You just expressed displeasure. I was just saying some people must like KFAN. I wasnt criticizing you or confronting you, just saying that KFAN has their place and they play to those ears.
by bringbackbrewer on Jan 1, 2012 11:22 AM CST up reply actions
i mentioned their ratings since the switch above....
….followed by a “so what do i know?” that’s why i was curious why you wrote that. they certainly seem to know how to play to their demo.
Sorry...
Ill start reading posts more thoroughly now on.
by bringbackbrewer on Jan 1, 2012 11:29 AM CST up reply actions
no need to apologize
i skim too. just wanted to make sure i came across correctly…or as correctly as possible on the intertronz.
Yea...
I came off a little confrontational which wasnt my point at all. People rip on KFAN and Common alot saying they should take him off the radio. Which, they would, if he wasnt making money.
Also,
Do you think he is that lazy and gets away with it because it can be funny, or does he actually prep and try hard to come off as lazy.
Ive heard from a guy that works there he really is a guy that just wanders around being funny.
by bringbackbrewer on Jan 1, 2012 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
He must do this funny act
when he’s not on the air.
by Esohny on Jan 1, 2012 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I don't doubt KFAN has listeners
This is obvious for ratings. I just personally don’t care for their knee jerk style of analysis. An example of this is Joe Mauer is injury-prone without providing any context that Catchers are generally injury prone. Another example of this would be Paul Allen proclaiming the Vikings were going to go 11-5 or some crazy prediction ignoring the Vikings aging at several key positions and the difficulty of the NFC North as a whole.
"Vote Ailuridae for Wolves GM"
by Jose Cordoba on Jan 1, 2012 11:27 AM CST up reply actions
Dont even...
Get me started on Mauer. Bil Lateral Leg weakness? Maybe he should work out in the off season. Mauer is a wuss. KFAN is right.
by bringbackbrewer on Jan 1, 2012 11:28 AM CST up reply actions
I should clarify
Catchers aren’t generally injury prone. The nature of the position is such that it causes them to miss a lot of games. If Mauer being a wuss is an example of KFAN being right then talk radio is really in the gutter.
"Vote Ailuridae for Wolves GM"
by Jose Cordoba on Jan 1, 2012 11:33 AM CST up reply actions
Just to avoid confusion
I was being sarcastic. I agree with you one hundred percent.
If KFAN's point
was risking 23 Million a Season on a Catcher is a highly risky-venture (This is more legit). Although people would have rioted if Mauer had been allowed to leave in Free Agency. Part of my issue with KFAN is I love reading Keith Law, Hollinger, Football Outsiders guys like Bill Barnwell so guys like Paul Allen and Danny B drive me up the Wall.
"Vote Ailuridae for Wolves GM"
by Jose Cordoba on Jan 1, 2012 11:36 AM CST up reply actions
I like the...
Emperical approach and the Esoteric. Combine the two. Win games.
Also, Mauer isnt just injury prone but he is also lazy. He doesnt work out much, or didnt before last year.
by bringbackbrewer on Jan 1, 2012 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
You believe that...
…that Mauer is lazy. That he does not work out.
I’m not sure how anyone can know that. I am sure to get where he is as a baseball player with his ability as a hitter and his ability at the plate, it came from thousands of hours or batting practice and playing baseball. Yes, he is a naturally gifted athlete, but there are thousands of these types. Mauer did not make himself a great player by being lazy, so we can scratch that off the list.
Now, how to explain the Mauer of 2011 and whether it is an anomoly or a indication of the player he will be for the rest of his career, I don’t have the answer. Something was not right. My guess is that there was something goig on mentally/emotionally/spiritually as much as physically. But my guess is as good as anyone’s so take it with a grain of south. But Mauer 2011 did not happen because Mauer is lazy, despite where you heard it from.
But..
If you have a leg weakness? Which was in the end just a muscle weakness, it comes from not working out. If you are getting paid 23 million you damn well better be working out and ready for the season. No excuse. I dont feel sorry for the criticism. I make 35k a year and I work 50 hours a week. I welcome any criticism for my performance because I get compensated decently. For 23 million you welcome the criticism and you better be on your game.
by bringbackbrewer on Jan 1, 2012 12:19 PM CST up reply actions
Leg Weakness
was the Twin’s management explanation, not Mauers.
So, how do we conclude he did not work out?
Criticize Mauer for his play or even for not being on the field. Just don’t make things up to suit your fancy or repeat what others say because your pissed you only make $35K.
What pissed me off about Mauer is I didn’t get to watch that beautiful swing in 2011. Something was off, and I don’t know what it was.
You missed my..
Point. Im not mad I make 35k. I welcome criticism to my performance because Im compensated. He should too. He wasnt prepared. No other explanation. And if there was one, they should have given it.
All in all, criticism is welcome in this situation.
by bringbackbrewer on Jan 1, 2012 12:26 PM CST up reply actions
I'm just saying
make legitimate criticism.
Lets say you suddenly stop going to work. You inform your boss you have a medical issue. Your coworkers wonder what the hell and start explaining your absense as a result of your being lazy.
Now, suppose, your medical condition is clinical depression and the medical treatment you are receiving is trying to find the right medication. You come back to work for a few weeks but you just aren’t right so you take more time off. Now your coworkers are really pissed.
I don’t know what Mauer’s issues were in 2011. I only know that he had something that had nothing to do with how much money he was making or how much he works out. The Mauer we saw in 2011 was a Mauer we had not seen before. we can all speculate and I can speculate that Mauer is suffering from clinical depression because he is dealing with a sexuality issue and his desires for male companionship. But, making my speculation on a public forum is irresponsible. (Canis Hoopus comment section is not really a public forum – I’m speaking of Barriero and others). Speculating that the reason behind Mauer2011 is laziness of not getting ready for the season on the public airwaves is irresponsible.
Mauer is a great baseball player, but he is also a human being and as a human being he is succeptible to all the diseases and mental health issues that afflict anyone of us and medical issues are private whether you make $35K or $23 million.
I’m not sure what Mauer was suffering from but its possible we will never know. I just hope it was not chronic.
I disagree.
I understand HIPPA laws, but when Mauer has somehting that unexplained and is a PUBLIC figure who make MONEY from the PUBLIC he has a responsibility HIMSELF to let us all know what is going on.
by bringbackbrewer on Jan 1, 2012 12:42 PM CST up reply actions
And if he doesn't
People have a right to make it up?
II agree people have a right to speculate. Barreiro has a right to speculate. Just admit that you are speculating. You speculate that Mauer is lazy and didn’t work out (actually, you didn’t you just repeated Barriero’s speculation as the gospel truth). I think its a ludicrous speculation, but I won’t deny you that right.
I already...
was under the assumption it was speculation. All im saying is criticism is due. He needs to be upfront and honest. It would invite much more understanding and for 23million a year when im paying a couple hundred dollars to see this guy play I want to know why he isnt.
by bringbackbrewer on Jan 1, 2012 12:56 PM CST up reply actions
This is it
This is what drives me crazy. You make $35K. You pay a couple hundred dollars to attend a sporting event. So, you have a right to go to games and yell stuff at players and take away from the enjoyment of others at the game.
And you have a right to call Mauer lazy and to tell Wes to make a cut, even if you have no idea of the play called by Adelman (The guy I sat next too kept telling Beasely to “Move” and yelling that the “lazy ass probably was high as a kite and should smoke a couple more bong hits” and he hates when NBA players are “lazy and don’t move.” What was not obvious to him was that Adelman had called for Luke and KLove set up the pick-n-roll and Beasley was supposed to be standing and setting up at the three — thought he was watching 3rd graders play and his yellings to “move” demonstrated a high BB IQ).
Its America and you do have a right to your opinions and to criticize. But, Mauer owes you nothing for your hundred bucks and decency should demand that we all learn to act respectful toward each other. Now, it would all be different if he was the one caught with marijuana in his vehicle, or if he was the one assualting security at Children’s hospital. As it is, Mauer’s only fault is he was unable to perform in 2011. For that he deserves criticism, but there’s no need to make things up.
Maybe MAuer owes me nothing...
But then you cant be mad when I call him lazy.
My couple hundred to the team makes me “feel” as if I need an explanation. It in no way forces the team to give me one.
by bringbackbrewer on Jan 1, 2012 1:28 PM CST up reply actions
asking people not to object....
….to things they object to while having correspondingly appropriate emotions is a pretty tall order.
Can you...
Calrify? Im not getting it. Its probably my stupidity.
by bringbackbrewer on Jan 1, 2012 1:41 PM CST up reply actions
Agreed,
My thing really. It all comes back to my annoyance at the TWolves games. Those knee jerk heckles that are not funny or original and that don’t demonstrate any feel for the NBA game.
I can’t help but slink down in my chair and wish I were home to watch the game on TV, embarassed for my fellow fans (I really am an elitist-I just can’t help it). Drinking my Summit and trying to concentrate on the game and ignore the mindless ranting about pot smoking lazy NBA players…
I agree with the commenter below who said that its much more acceptable from a 18-20 yo kid, but when its the 40-50 y/o from Maplewood, it is disconcerting.
Im a 26 year old...
I guess Im in the middle. I admitted Im obnoxious at games sometimes. I dont swear and I dont do it because I think im better or smarter. I just get into the game.
Oh and not Maplewood, but North Minneapolis…not the thrifty east side either!
by bringbackbrewer on Jan 1, 2012 1:45 PM CST up reply actions
people will disagree with you
it happens to everybody. asking them to not have an emotion about what they disagree with is kind of presumptuous. nobody has all the answers and almost all opinions are up for grabs. people can get mad with things you say.
True...
Im not asking anyone to agree with me. Im just upset I invest time and money into a team or product and when it doesnt produce, I either want an explanation or the right to complain.
I admit I make assumptions but until something is explained further than Bi-lateral leg weakness, what do you expect me to do?
by bringbackbrewer on Jan 1, 2012 1:51 PM CST up reply actions
How about
wishing him a healthy recovery from whatever it is that ails him?
Sure...
But they wont say directly what is wrong.
Im not against Joe Mauer as a person. Im against him as a player. Huge distinction. My vehemence(I joke because I dont care that much) extends only to what on the field implications this stuff has.
by bringbackbrewer on Jan 1, 2012 1:55 PM CST up reply actions
I'm 47
and still not easily accepting of the fact that I am growing up to be a crotchety old man who just doesn’t understand the youth these days. Seems like yesterday when I thought I was on the otherside.
Well..
Good day to you. Thanks for the conversation. Ill try and be a little quieter at games, but I still might yell at Wes for passing up open shots and driving into clogged lanes.
by bringbackbrewer on Jan 1, 2012 1:52 PM CST up reply actions
I wish I had Mauer's laziness.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 1, 2012 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
Oy Vey!!!!!
"Vote Ailuridae for Wolves GM"
Football Outsiders
Had the Vikings at 8-9 wins. But the following should be stated.
The Vikings have been like 2-8 in games decided by a touchdown or less. Assuming a Team is generally 50/50 in such areas. This would put the Vikings at closer to 6/7 Wins then 3/4. If Jahvid Best falls down when he’s stumbling versus Detroit, if Tyrell Johnson doesn’t drop an interception versus Tampa Bay, if various mishaps don’t doom the Vikings in Other Games. The record looks better.
Special Teams is so sproadic and difficult to predict from year to year. This explains the Vikings Slide and record in close games as they have generally been towards the bottom of the league.
The Football Outsiders essay predicted the Vikings to have a somewhat fluky 8-9 Win Season which would probably reverse course into a 3-4 Win Season in the near future. Reading the essay in Decemeber really isn’t that inaccurate for how things turned out.
"Vote Ailuridae for Wolves GM"
by Jose Cordoba on Jan 1, 2012 11:45 AM CST up reply actions
Just saying that
PA only had 1 more win.
I’m no PA guy, he has lost any ability to analyze that team without bias. He actually said he’s not on Twitter because some of the players on the team might get offended if he were to speak badly of them! Pretty sure he was serious.
It should also be stated
The Vikings historically horrific Pass Defense doesn’t figure into too many models.
"Vote Ailuridae for Wolves GM"
by Jose Cordoba on Jan 1, 2012 11:50 AM CST up reply actions
The problem in debating Football Outsiders vs PA
Is the reasoning behind the assertions. Football Outsiders predicted 8-9 wins on the basis of a weaker schedule and good luck. Neither of these things really materialized. PA predicted 10 wins on last season being a fluke when they’re were plenty of reasons to be skeptical this wasn’t going to be the case. The problem with Football is a 16 Game Schedule can lead to a lot of variance. So you’re right but also wrong in your assertion that they were only one game apart in thier predictions when the reasons were vastly different for arriving at certain conclusions.
"Vote Ailuridae for Wolves GM"
by Jose Cordoba on Jan 1, 2012 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
Tommy P and Zulgad
Over at 1500 where pretty on the money regarding the Vikings Season.
"Vote Ailuridae for Wolves GM"
by Jose Cordoba on Jan 1, 2012 11:55 AM CST up reply actions
Yes,
I actually know a couple of the guys who went from KFAN to 1500. I am sure its true.
I can remember listening to Ruesse/Souchery sports talk from way back when Rush was just getting started. Rush used to be some radio guy for the KC Royals. Since Rush was going to be joining the 1500 team and RUesse/Souchery sports talk probably had the highest ratings there back inthe late 1980s or so, Rush was being interviewed by the two. RUesse stuck with Royals and baseball questions since he didn’t seem to have much idea of what Rush was doing with his show. Souchery piped in and said something like “So, Rush, this seems to be a pretty good schtik you got going with your show, isn’t it?” Rush replied with, “what do you mean schtick?” Only shortly after, Rush’s ratings went through the air at 1500 and Souchery, who never before utterred a political view in his life and if anything you would have guessed he leaned left, suddenly made his radio appearance as polical conservative that landed him his own show with his garage logic. He has been riding that schtik ever since. I sometimes think no one does it better, I mean making his audience think they are smarter than the host. Given that the listeners to garage logic don’t exactly inspire one to admiration, this is quite an achievement
Well put.
“Garage Logic”: the logic of someone bellyaching about politics in his garage. So…. splenetic.
That’s really sad, to hear that he made the choice so consciously. Does that make him more, or less, of an ass?
"Opinion ...a confession."
Simply
An opportunist. So, I suppose we could say it makes him smart in self promoting sort of way. You have to remember that many of these radio guys are former newspaper men who saw the writing on the wall with the newspaper business that used to provide a lucrative means for making a living. Souchery was trying to feed his family.
this
it is a cut throat business that rewards those people who know which buttons to push and are willing to push them. rush has done it the longest (and the best, for a while) and now he is a hollow shell of a human being. an empty sex touring drug addled opportunist who opportuned his way to the top and now has no way down and is coasting on a bit that has long since become his entire existence.
That, then, becomes the question.
The thing with all these guys, Dan B, Souhan, Joe S, PA, Dubay, is whether they end up believing and living their own schtik. I think its the danger of fame. Everyone telling you how great you are.
I don’t see it affecting SOuchery, Dan B and Souhan, like I say, I imagine them smirking. I kind of admire Dan B for phoning it in, since it obviously has yet to hurt his ratings. His audience still eats him up. Or, even the IQ 92 morning guy Tom Bernard. I sometimes think, or hope, these guys recognize they are just entertaining and can go home to their loved ones and enjoy the holidays like any other family. Guys like Ruxh just went off the deep end, like Charlie Sheen, I suppose…
Random thought
Dan’s ode to his late father was literally one of the best things I’ve ever heard on radio.
I’m a local radio geek so I enjoy this conversation.
I think Dan B
is actually quite intelligent and can be very moving. He often does compelling radio. He also often plays to his audience. I think he enjoys hearing people to say “Mauer is a wuss” as much as hearing that they loved his ode to his late father. Both bring high ratings.
Really funny thing is
that I once sent Dan an email that he apparently made a whole show out of.
My email became fodder for ridicule and I have no doubt he had a great time ridiculing me on the air. I know this because he had to send me an email stating how much fun he had with me over the air, in case I missed it (I did).
Now, I had to wonder whether Dan was truly this vindictive, or whether he was only baiting me to respond further to further increase his ratings.
probably a little of both
i think from is perspective it could be a bit overwhelming at times to have all of that constant input and comments about you. i am pretty thick skinned but i have to admit it was pretty jarring to read something on another site about me in a way that was personal and kind of vindictive. not saying your email was like that but i cant imagine how big of a water hose these guys drink from in terms of negative or confrontational commentary coming their way. hell, just look at rube chat and extrapolate away.
my bet here is that he picks a few emails every now and then to blow off steam.
also....
…it is tough to remember the human aspect of all of this. kahn emailed me about his kid reading the site and me calling him a douche. his son asked what that meant and that had to be a really shitty moment….a moment that i created. now, obviously people like kahn and dan make lots of money to put up with shit like this (and they need to be reminded of that from time to time), but rolling in the joe mauer meme, where do you draw the line? where do you draw it in comment sections or in emails to talk show hosts? i think this would make for a good talk show segment.
by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 1, 2012 1:24 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Wow
Kahn emailed you directly about that? What a tricky situation. His kid really shouldn’t read T-Wolves blogs.
Mind sharing your reply?
i'll leave out the word for word
i apologized in a way that made a few things clear about the nature of the site.
and no, children of sports executives shouldnt read fan sites. neither should executives. put an intern on it, or something.
Well as long as he knows about CH
Can you link him to the next draft board? (whenever we have a pick again)
by MoreJuice on Jan 1, 2012 1:39 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The Wolves probably have their kids as interns, yes?
I’m glad you mentioned this about Kahn’s e-mailing.
Maybe I’ll be turning over a new leaf, here, myself, though I’m far from the worst offender I think. As I’ve said a few times, I personally kind of sympathize with David Kahn. Still, though.
"Opinion ...a confession."
Yes,
This would make a great talk show segment. There is a line there somewhere. We should remember that these guys are human beings. Kahn may be a poor GM, but that does not make him a douche.
No, I did not call Dan a name. I was defending some people he was criticizing. The closest I came to criticising him was saying that I enjoyed it much more when he talked sports than politics and that I went to other stations for political talk. Dan was right to point out to me that his talking politics was good for ratings and my opinion was in the minority.’
what Dan had good fun with was my “elitist” attittude and my defending of a position. For what its worth, the position I was defending was those who did not believe the official story of the Wellstone plane crash and 911. I explained to Dan that many intelligent and educated people have questions and they are not all kooks because they can’t accept the officail version.
Common
Has read emails in which the sender actually wishes him cancer or a stroke or something. Wackos.
Though...
Maybe he fabricates them. Then again people are stupid.
Also, maybe people send him emails like that because they know they will get read.
by bringbackbrewer on Jan 1, 2012 1:43 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think he made them up
People are just weird, who knows what kind of weird things are sent to public figures that can’t even be repeated.
yeah, the namecalling on my part was totally a dick move
unless it is the part of a clever bit and involves some sort of self effacing angle, it doesnt work.
That explains
why I didn’t get a “From all of us at the Kahn Ranch to You! Happy Holidays!” card this year.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
This may be a dumb question
And one that you may have heard before, but is your alias taken directly from Dan’s TB bit?
The problem with Rush
is overtime- he’s gotten lazy and just gotten co-opted into the Establishment. When Rush rants against Romney it’s kind of a joke since no serious person believes that Rush isn’t going to knock it off once Romney is the only option to stop Obama’s Marxist/Socialist/Whatever Agenda.
"Vote Ailuridae for Wolves GM"
by Jose Cordoba on Jan 1, 2012 11:32 AM CST up reply actions
i used to loooooovvvvve am 1280
when i got out of the service it was just around the start of the iraq war and i couldnt believe what i was hearing on that station and was thusly entertained. every now and then i turn it back on to see how things have changed and i think there are some interesting case studies in the hollowing out process.
bill bennet is in on the bit. he happily goes home to write scolding books about history.
mike gallager will hollow out.
dennis prager isnt smart enough to get that his bit is a bit. is angle preserves his soul.
medved…soulless and on the air. he cant go back nobody would take him and his movie reviews.
hewitt…never had a soul to begin with. pure party an from day one.
savage….believes every word he says. this is admirable and crazy at the same time. i imagine he eats alone a lot.
Rush got boring
as he turned from an Anti-Establishment voice into a Party Shill. I will always have a soft spot for Micheal Savage- he might be crazy, he might be inflammatory-he’s probably a bit- but no one can accuse him of being a “Yes-Man”.
On TV- I’ve caught some of the Young Turks on Current and been impressed.
"Vote Ailuridae for Wolves GM"
by Jose Cordoba on Jan 1, 2012 11:41 AM CST up reply actions
I don't know what I'm reading
or listening too half the time these days.
I never listened to 1280. But I did listen to Rush when he first appeared on 1500. I thought he was outrageous and hilarious. I put him in the same category as Howard Stern. I never, never, ever thought of him as anti-establishment anymore than I thought the not-yet-ready-for-prime-time players were anti-establishment. I saw him as an entertainer. I am disturbed by guys like Savage and the Foz news guy who have shows that people take seriously.
When I stopped listening to Rush was when I realized that 99% of his audience did not recognize it as a bit. Then I started questioning whether Rush still thought of it as a bit. Then I never turned on a plitical radio show again. Its all mush, whether from Franken or savage.
What disturbs me is how popular these shows are.
Wanted to add this to the convo, from when Rush tried to have a TV talk show
It’s…glorious.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 1, 2012 12:41 PM CST up reply actions
yeah
the bit doesnt work well in the real world with push back. his tv show was tuuuuurrrrrable. as was his short lived espn stint. america is not desirous of rush on their tvs.
And the problem is...
…that Fox, and the establishment (by which I’ll use the occupy term the 1%) has figured that out. They proclaim a majority and they downplay the pushback. They move in on the demonstrations and they establish “free speech” zones far away from the conventions. They have become very effective at pretendign the pushback does not exist.
yep
gotta love free speech zones that are hundreds of yards away from where the important people could possibly see/hear them.
I don't identify Love as the problem
But I do think he could stand to improve upon his late game play.
Is that a fair criticism?
That awkward drive to the hoop where he stopped, and pivoted around, trying to get a foul, and put up a weird shot was not the play I was hoping we’d get.
I’d have taken a stop and pop in that situation.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
OK. There's at least some argument there you could be wrong.
Time will tell. My money’s on Rubio already.
Never bet money on a game...
that is guaranteed to involve shifting goal-posts.
Anyone who doesn’t view Love as an A+ player and one of the best 10 players in the league, is not committed to any objective value system.
That last sentence is kind of silly.
No offense. And I even agree with you that Love is an A+ player and one of the best 10 players in the league,
Follow me on Twitter @timallenonline
I think...
“measurable” would have been a better term than objective. There are potentially legitimate perspectives from which Love is not a “banana sandwich”, but not ones that are measurable enough to stake a bet on.
"any objective value system"
You mean one based on numbers.
There are objective discussions to be had based on how basketball is played, too.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
And they get lost in the box score,
but double teams are easy to observe and discuss. There isn’t anything subjective about observing and pointing out that one player commands two defenders. With only five players out there, committing two to one is a big deal. Rubio helped remind Minnesotans how this works, last night.
Numbers are helpful, objective, and sometimes misleading. They don’t fully encompass objective basketball discussion, though.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
I think we're on the same page here.
I’m just pointing out my first response to the “any objective measure” bit above. Wins and losses are as objective as OREB%. Your point about the double teams is also apt. Nothing in recent MN ball has made me as excited as seeing LeBron assigned to Rubio in crunch time. That is some respect.
Kevin Love has had shitty teammates, to be sure, but he has not yet made them something they were not. If I have any hope for our franchise, it consists of (a) keeping Love and (b) praying that Ricky Rubio can make B- players into B+ players just by making their decisions for them. Rubio brings “it” to the floor in a way that Love does not, and the only way this will be quantified will be to measure the bump in role player performances related to their Spanish breast-feeding.
by TheH on Dec 31, 2011 12:46 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
S-n-P
I think you’re reading me as a critic of Kevin Love here. I’m not. I think he’s the best player on our team and top-20 league-wide, probably. He does lots of things very, very well. I wouldn’t call him a leader, though. Would you? Relabel the debate about leadership if you don’t like the label “making teammates better.” Maybe you think that leadership in sports is a myth, I’m not sure. But I’d have a hard time dropping the idea that some basketball players make their teammates play harder, make their teammates play better by putting them in positions to succeed (Dean Garrett), or give their teams a clear sense of direction and purpose on one end of the floor or another. If teams were the simple sum of their parts, there wouldn’t be a need for coaches. Again, Kevin Love does not NEED to do more. He’s great. But he’s yet to galvanize an offense or a defense simply by being on the floor, and I’d be surprised if you think that can be debated.
i dont think you are a critic and even if you were i just dont get the whole....
….make people better argument. it seems very biased towards things we cant witness and things like assists. why not screens or creating double team box outs? kevin love galvanizes entire defenses to watch him on the glass. did you see that one where henwas double boxed out and battier came too and he still gotmthe reboundmand the foul?
what more can a guy with that sort of game do for his teammates? he even passes really well,,
Sure it's biased.
And it should be. Because it highlights certain skill sets. It’s geared to distributors on the offensive end (this is why “makes his teammates better” gets applied to Paul, Nash, Kidd more than anyone else) and defensive anchors on the other end (did KG’s arrival have no effect on Pierce’s and Allen’s defensive commitments?). Some people organize offenses, some people organize defenses. Some people do other stuff. There are things Love doesn’t do, just like there are things Dirk, Howard, etc. don’t do.
What makes me suspect that we’re talking past each other, though, is that I try to emphasize that he shouldn’t be expected to do more and you close with the rhetorical question above. I’m not saying he can do more or should do more!
the real question isn't "does he make players better"
It is whether or not the team’s primary offensive and defensive initiator possess the ability to actually do both their job and someone elses.
Telling players on the offensive end to move into the right positions and indicating when they should do what (even if they shouldn’t have to) is what drives the “makes players better” on the offensive end comments.
Having the defensive initiator (usually the center manning the middle) barking out who should do what and covering up for when people make mistakes applies similarly on the defensive end.
Quite simply, that’s not Love’s place or role on this team. That being said he does damn near EVERYTHING else at a very high level. Those things are important too, but tend to get lost when you don’t have the other two. I think Rubio is the offensive initator we have been lacking and the reason I wanted Biyombo is that I think he could have been the defensive initiator/@$$ coverer.
Granted we would still need actual shooters on the wing…but the wolves have always needed that.
"My love for Jerry Kill knows no bounds." - Jeffrick
by TheEvilProfessor on Dec 31, 2011 3:42 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Tyson Chandler was pretty great/prototypical in that defensive role last year.
I should probably check out how he does with the Knicks, but my aversion to them has prevented that so far.
I wish I had said this...
… right off the bat. Concise post.
Disagree
All of Rubio’s passes to Randolph happened because the D was keyed in on Love. Love’s offensively capabilities open up the passing lanes for Rubio and everyone else. Without Love’s offense, we wouldn’t have Rubio’s assist numbers. Defensively, Love is average.
Defensively, we have non one who improves the overall defensive posture of the team, the way a KG or a Tyson Chandler would, and I don’t think any stat, advanced or in the special ed classes, can capture that.
what?
“All of Rubios passes to Randolph?”
Umm… He had two alley oops.
First- It was Rubios misdirection on a PnR
Second- They would guard the PnR no matter who was out there.
A third assist went to Randolph when K Love wasnt in the game.
So… Invalid. Rubio had many assists that KLuv had nothing to do with.
I think Kluv is a great player but he is not the reason Rubio is good. He helps, but Rubio would be good without him.
by bringbackbrewer on Jan 1, 2012 11:07 AM CST up reply actions
We may have to alter our stance some...
if he continues to shoot 14.0 free throws per game, up from 6.8, a year ago. This change has bumped his scoring up significantly. If he puts a bit of arch on those free throws and gets back up to 85 or more percent, it’ll be an even-bigger improvement. Actually, what am I saying—I’d rather see him just shoot more 3’s when he’s open than worry about free throws.
In this three-game sample size, Love is doing some pretty incredible things on a team that looks to be competitive. In this three-game sample size, Michael Beasley is a terrible offensive player (and surprisingly-decent defender).
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
TheH, You are mixing up a bunch of different things in
your muddled argument.
Kevin Love is definitely a leader. He is the leader of the Wolves. He is their best player. These are all obviously and demonstrably true.
Kevin Love makes the players around him better. He dishes great assists. He gets rebounds and kicks them out to shooters to improve their scores. He encourages his teammates. But he is not a miracle worker. He can’t turn the Wolves into the Bulls like he is a Jordan because there just isn’t that much there to work with.
It sounds like your idea of a leader is only point guards. Or someone acting like a point guard like Jordan, or Kobe, or Lebron. Is that what you are thinking? Because that is crazy.
Making people better
Its a fuzzy concept, but its not imaginary. Love is stuck on a team without a lot of pieces surrounding him. Love cannot do more than he is doing. There may not be a statistic for it, but it certainly can be true that RIcky will make his teammates better than Love will. Last night offered such proof with both Anthony Randolf and Wayne Ellington. Love cannot, all by himself make Randolph look like a legitimate NBA player with skills to play in the NBA. Ricky can. Wame with WIlliams. Say, one more thing, Wes has not been on the floor that much with Ricky this year. Perhaps, Wes is only missing his opportunity. COuld it be that we won’t really know if Wes is a true bust until he actually spends some minutes on the floor with Ricky and Love, instead of only Love.
One doesn't build one's team by accommodating the weaknesses of marginal players.
Could it be that we won’t really know if Wes is a true bust until he actually spends some minutes on the floor with Ricky and Love, instead of only Love(?)
Wes, or Beasley, or Darko, or Anthony Randolph will all need to show enough to be on the floor at all, before we start rejiggering the rotations to make sure someone hasn’t failed convincingly yet. We get your point, but people have to earn their opportunities too.
"Opinion ...a confession."
I'd disagree
A championship team accomodate the weaknesses of marginal players by taking advantage of the strengths of marginal players. The question is whether Wes Johnson has any strengths at all. I tend to agree with SnP that he may not have any NBA skills to take advantage of. But, if his strength is sitting out on the arc and taking an open Three, then Rubio will find him just as he finds Anthony R open behind defenders at the hoop for monster slams. Don’t focus on the weaknesses, focus on the strengths.
by Andy B on Dec 31, 2011 2:48 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
For any player that's true.
But you don’t, for example, play Wes Johnson as a starter alongside Rubio because you’re waiting to see about Wes. You might do it because you don’t have better options, okay. But you don’t compromise your stars’ play by saddling them with shaky players.
Start from the strengths of your best players, and build around those. Don’t start from the weaknesses of your worst players. That’s the wrong way ’round.
Miami isn’t a championship contender because they’re concentrating first on masking Joel Anthony’s limitations.
"Opinion ...a confession."
by feral on Dec 31, 2011 3:07 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I think we are in agreement
I’m not completely sure yet on Wes. I just don’t know. I can’t help but root for some guys. I want them to succeed. In the past this included Joe Smith, Anthony Peeler, Isaih Rider, Christian Laetner, Terrel Brandon, Chauncey Billups, Randy Foye, Rashad McCants, Corey Brewer, Johnny Flynn, …
Now, it includes Darko, Anthony Randolph, and Wes. Despite their faults and probably mostly because of all the criticism I hear of these players by the pundits, I want them to find something somewhere within them and turn it around and become a very good NBA player that has a place on a playoff NBA team.
The analogies in basebal are the role players who have impact plays during playoff runs, such as Randy Bush or Nick Punto. You can find all kinds of things wrong with these guys as individual players based on their stats. You could even find reasons for why you would never want to pay them the kind of money they would command in a free agent market, but you cannot deny the positive impact they made on their team during a playoff run and for that I will always remain fans of these players.
That is all I am hoping from guys like Darko and Wes. I don’t hold any fantasy about them being the players the Wolves need to get them over the hump. But, once they get that player(s), I hope Darko and/or Wes will provide me with those moments and memories I will carry with me as a fan from a playoff run by a few impactful plays.
What I'm wanting to avoid, in the analogy, might be
a team with a bad CF, and an All Star, Gold Glove right fielder.
Say that team has a decent right field prospect in the minors. Do you move your Gold Glove player into center, where he can be pretty good, and put the prospect in Right where he’s comfortable? The team’s defense might be evened out, right? But no, you don’t want to be jerking your stars players’ positions around to patch holes caused by the rest of the roster; it’s going to cause problems even in the short term. Out your star players in a position to do what they do best, and work around that.
"Opinion ...a confession."
Rubio seems to be making players better
I think it’s a legit factor into what makes a good player great….however I think Love has done a pretty fair job with that, posts make guards better and guards make posts better….most of Love’s best players since he’s been here are posts. You put a guy like (I know I know) Harden with Love and I would expect Love to make Harden’s life a lot easier, much like Rubio is making Love’s life (and maybe Love’s love life)
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Check out the career of a one Tim Duncan. Everyone else on the spurs team over the last decade wouldn’t have had the same level of success that fast without Timmy making it easy for everyone to make mistakes coz he had it all covered for you.
Eep.
Everyone else on the spurs team over the last decade wouldn’t have had the same level of success that fast without Timmy making it easy for everyone to make mistakes coz he had it all covered for you.
The great thing about hypotheticals is that, since they can’t be tested, there’s no need to defend them! Yay!
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Dec 31, 2011 3:40 PM CST up reply actions
True.
But my guess is you ask any Spurs faithful and they will give you more or less the same answer. And not to mention, the coach has only been saying that for a decade :)
Yeah, Manu woulda sucked on any other team
same with Parker.
%
It actually quite simple to see who makes others better.
The player that makes his team able to win using largely similar players is the one that makes other players around him better. It also relatively easy to measure, if the impact is large enough. Like Magic Johnson and Jason KIdd when they first entered the league or Steve Nash when he was traded to Phoenix. The addition of these players to those teams changed their win totals significantly and immediately.
BTW, it’s no accident I choose those players. I see Rubio very much in the mold of those players. So, if the Wolves win 25 games or so this season, I ’d say Rubio is a very impactful player. If they win close to 30, the question of who is the most important player will be answered.. As I said, time will tell.
It's no accident you chose those players.
No, it’s not. You chose them to use examples that suit the argument, yes? ;-)
"Opinion ...a confession."
This!
Rubio is already making them look good on the floor with good decisions. I also saw him shouting coverage on transition defense trying to communicate. These are key small details which make your average collection of players better than they should be. Spurs have been doing this for a long time.
If Rubio is not able to manufacture a basket early in shot clock then the ball should go to Love in the post for him to do his thing – get rebound off his own miss or get to the line. I will admit I haven’t watched Twolves much, so I am assuming here that Love can do that based on numbers. Just play smart team ball maximizing strengths hiding weaknesses.
I would think both Rubio and Love are essential to any success in the next four years. I really think Darko is a decent player to keep around. Size is not overrated.
Size is not overrated
This is true. I don’t know if I will go so far as to get giddy about Darko, but humans that large and coordinated don’t grow on trees. Finding talented 7 footers is a tough, tough task and even the best of GMs go to great lengths to overlook potential red flags about, say, health.
(And Oden actually produced like gangbusters when healthy.)
I'm not going to lie...
… I read your subject line and saw the picture. And I laughed unbelievably loud in a quiet room because I thought you were headed in a different direction.
To tell you the truth...
…I often don’t know what direction I’m headed anyway.
BTW, I wonder if Oden will ever see the court again.
My honest guess is "no".
And it really makes me about as sad I can get for a man who will retire at 25 richer than anyone I’ll ever meet in real life. He’d be so much fun to have in the mix.
Speaking of fragility, Malcolm Lee? Second surgery in a year on one knee. Nothing dispels the whole “our own Afflalo” for me like that. I hope for the best, but expect the worst: chronic problems with that knee.
Doesn’t the fact that the Wolves knew about this knee issue make the 3 yr guaranteed contract thing even more of a head scratcher?
Yes it does.
The details on this may make the Wolves look better (if it seemed fine when the contract was signed, but was re-injured in an unforeseeable way), but it sure doesn’t look good on the surface.
Worse.
You’ve had the guy past your own doctors in Lee’s case.
Three years, guaranteed. What is the explanation here?
"Opinion ...a confession."
Umm...
Its a torn Meniscus. Probably the easiest surgery to have on any part of the knee. You can walk that day and run within a few weeks. Not a big deal. Lets not freak out here.
by bringbackbrewer on Jan 1, 2012 11:09 AM CST up reply actions
This response has nothing to do with the question.
The question is, why did they give a second-round pick a three-year guaranteed deal? It’s not typical for that spot in the draft. They didn’t have to do it. He had an injury history.
"Opinion ...a confession."
Okay
I have no idea. I’m not sure if he’s a player or not. The only reason I’m giving the Wolves the benefit of doubt is Adelman and his comments on Lee.
We won’t know until we see him play. Is he the only second round pick to get a three year guaranteed contract in the NBA. I have no idea.
Yes.
Understood. We just shouldnt act as if Malcolm Lee will spend the next 3 years rehabbing his knee.
Also, I believe Adelman made the decision not Kahn. I believe Kahn just brokers the deals that Adelman wants him to get.
by bringbackbrewer on Jan 1, 2012 11:24 AM CST up reply actions
(Lee was drafted before Adelman arrived.)
The guarantee did stand out a bit. December 12th, Steve Kyler tweeting:
stevekylerNBA
Hearing from several agents that a large number of the 2nd round picks that signed contracts did so with little to no guaranteed money.
stevekylerNBA
RT @blaugranablood: is Barea to the Wolves a done deal? —→ yes and my guy Malcolm Lee got a guaranteed three-year deal from Wolves too.
(If Kahn’s role is about contract negotiations – getting the guy Adelman wants – then he at least appears to have overpaid somewhat for the player in question. And Adelman seems to have like Lee’s game in very short order, given that he wasn’t here to draft the kid.)
"Opinion ...a confession."
Agreed.
But from what Adelman has said it seems like he pushed the signing. Then again this all empty speculation by me.
by bringbackbrewer on Jan 1, 2012 12:20 PM CST up reply actions
I dont think
that they should have given him a guaranteed deal. I just think it wasnt the worst move ever, albeit a puzzling one.
by bringbackbrewer on Jan 1, 2012 12:21 PM CST up reply actions
"He’d be so much fun to have in the mix."
Oden vs. Howard was gonna be grand. I’m more angry than I have a right to be at being deprived of that matchup.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 1, 2012 12:47 PM CST up reply actions
Bill Simmons compared Oden
to Fred Sanford in 2007. We probably all know this, but its worth remembering.
And you know what? He walked like a 50-year-old man. His posture was screwed up. He had the Fred Sanford walk going. If you saw him from behind and just studied his walk, you would have thought it was a retired player, someone like Patrick Ewing or Robert Parish. I couldn’t believe it. I didn’t stop talking about it the rest of the night. Greg Oden walked like a guy who had bad knees. If I were Portland’s GM and watched Oden walk across the room, that would have been it for me. The next day, I even called my buddy Sully (who works for the Celtics) just to have the obligatory, “Yo, we might have dodged a bullet May 22; Greg Oden walks like a 50-year-old man” conversation.
Bill Simmons also said he'd take Oden first in his draft preview.
That was after he said he’d take Durant though. And before he said he knew Durant should’ve gone first.
So basically, No.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 1, 2012 1:14 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, Simmons has definitely gone back and forth on that one.
One of my pet peeves, actually
Without hindsight or knowing what has happened
I pick Oden ten times out of time over Durant.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 1, 2012 1:22 PM CST up reply actions
Are you sure?
I think he was all over Durant on that one.
He did say that taking Oden was the safe logical pick, but the better pick would have been Durant.
Greg Oden: No. 1 with a bullet
Greg Oden is the No. 1 pick in the draft. The debate is over. He pulled a Private Ryan and earned that spot.
And just for fun:
The other winner: Corey Brewer, who emerged this month as the most intriguing draft prospect other than Kevin Durant. My buddy House and I spent a few minutes on the phone Monday night trying to find the right comparison for a 6-foot-8, 190-pound guard who’s unlike anyone in the NBA right now — ultimately, we settled on a 6-foot-8 Ricky Davis, only if you surgically implanted Manu Ginobili’s brain in Ricky’s head. Why Manu? Because of his open-court play and penchant for sneaking away from his man to cause turnovers. Because of the way he rises to the occasion in bigger games. Because of the deadly 3-point shooting. And especially, because of the unconventional angles that Brewer takes when he’s driving to the basket.
If you want to get technical about it, he’s the player we always wanted Todd Day to be. And since he’s a better athlete and defender than Manu, and since he’s a winner and all, the question remains … why isn’t Corey Brewer being considered for a top-five spot in this draft? Is there a chance he could make a Ben Gordon-type leap as we get closer and closer to end of June, and the lottery teams realize, “Wait, why are we killing ourselves trying to figure out who’s better between Noah, Horford and Hibbert … why don’t we just take Corey Brewer?”
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 1, 2012 1:35 PM CST up reply actions
We really need a website
that just reminds people of how wrong Simmons is all the time. No one ever calls him on it.
Thats good
And I’m not defending Bill Simmons. He is a basketball columnist afterall. But, what he wrote on April 3, 2011 after the NCAA championship game can be right on (That was a great game and Brewer was clearly a winner whose draft stock rightfully rose after that big game), and still be allowed to change his mind come draft day.
Bill Simmons may be wrong a lot (He is a good writer regardless), but he was right on on Oden and the old man description. He saw it coming and he was right. Athletes should have a bounce when they are 18 -19 yo old. You can tell a lot by how they carry themselves. Oden was destined to be a bust in my opinion. I’ve been wrong a lot about draft picks, but I was clearly in the Durant corner in 07, mostly because the NBA had already begun moving away from a center dominated league.
I am not anti-Darko myself.
It would be wonderful to have an All-Star defensive center (or a hopeful future one, like the Manther), but Darko is serviceable enough that our wing issue is far, far more urgent. He can play good D on the big guys. He can pass (I seem to recall a couple of nice ones last night). He is not overpaid.
(I also find him entertaining—on the bench, during warmups, when he….walks….so…..slooooowwwwwllllly whenever not in the middle of a game).
There was a moment last night
when Darko was in the high post and put the ball on his left hip (where he always gets it stripped from), and I started to scream. But then he passed it back to Luke and the danger passed.
He’s been solid so far (other than those five TOs in Milwaukee—yuck).
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Dec 31, 2011 4:23 PM CST up reply actions
He's one of the biggest players in the NBA
How he doesn’t keep the ball high at all times (like Pau Gasol) surprises me.
Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.
I was actually watching how our bigs held the ball last night.
Love was the most disciplined—he always has it tight to his chest. And I’ve never seen anyone swipe the ball away from him, either.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Dec 31, 2011 4:32 PM CST up reply actions
Slow walking is a guaranteed crowd-pleaser, you're so right!
Imagine walking terribly slowly in other incongruous settings. The judge calls you to the bench, and you take…. your…. sweet…. time, rolling your eyes for the jury’s edification. Ha ha! Droll!
"Opinion ...a confession."
top 10....?
LeBron
Wade
Howard
CP3
DWill
Blake
Melo
Dirk
Durant
Yeah maybe.
I think there is a gray area of players like STAT and Bosh that are different players than Love, but depending on the situation maybe better or worse than him.
Ex. I think Love would make both the Knicks and Heat a lot better because he could fit into that role a lot more efficiently than Stat and Bosh
But (Might get crucified for saying this) I think if Stoudimire were on the Wolves….as long as he is healthy I think he would make us better.
Bosh is a tough guy to peg, Toronto got so bad after he left, he’s gotta lotta ability. He’s different than Love so it’s a tough comparison though.
All in all I really questioned his top 10 status when I read the statement, but now that I look at it it’s a lot closer than I initially thought
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 31, 2011 12:17 PM CST up reply actions
Yes I did.
DROSE.
Yeah I mean I will buy Love as like a 10-15 player. Top 10 still might be a stretch…Kobe I guess is questionable at this point in his career….but he’s in my top 10 until he completely breaks
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 31, 2011 12:28 PM CST up reply actions
as is Melo...
but I agree top 10 was strong. Top 15 is more accurate if I am going to make an absolutist claim like that.
See I like Melo
He’s Tom Brady like with less than 5 minutes.
I get that he’s way volume and all that…but the guy just turns Beast Mode on like very few players do.
I don’t think I disrespect Love at all by preferring Melo at least this moment. Love absolutely can change my mind though
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 31, 2011 12:32 PM CST up reply actions
I would not put Love in the top 10 yet...
… even though these lists are incredibly difficult to back up once you get out of the top three or four players. The simplistic strategy I would use to exclude Love from this company looks like this: none of those players would spend two healthy seasons winning 32 games. I’m as big a fan of Love and ALL he brings to the table for our squad, but wins and losses… they are sticking points for me.
Love is better than Blake
but neither is probably top 10, definitely top 20.
Jeeze, I think I'd have to take Blake
He’s got the hammer.
I don’t know if you remember the player where LeBron made the stupid outlet pass that got deflected, Rubio got the ball back to a driving Love who did this kind of awkward jump stop/tried to draw the foul…..Blake would have hammered that play home and probably have drawn the foul in the process.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Call me a hoops rube
I like the dunk :-p
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I'd rather have love.
I’d take Love over Dwill, Blake, and Melo on that list.
But Rose probably should be up there.
I was watching a Clippers game
and Blake didn’t get 16 rebounds or shoot outside.
They’re different mammals.
Obviously
I’m still allowed to have a preference as to who I think is the more valuable player
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Love is much better right now.
In two or three years? That one isn’t quite as clear.
Follow me on Twitter @timallenonline
so true ^^
youtube some young Karl Malone… If Blake Griffin’s jumper keeps getting better, he looks like the mail man. (Most of us probably watched Karl when he was old – it’s really weird to see the guys I watched in their prime playing when they were fresh outta college.)
Kevin Love is not on a Karl Malone level. Sorry.
Agree I’d take Love over Griffin for right now.
by nharabadger on Dec 31, 2011 10:10 PM CST up reply actions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNDbydC98HY
they even wore the same number… if you’re going to watch, at least get to about :55 where he gives DAVID ROBINSON, the ADMIRAL, a FACIAL.
by nharabadger on Dec 31, 2011 10:12 PM CST up reply actions
And the previous comment that LeBron is the best visiting player ever
is dispelled by all the performances that Karl Malone laid on the Wolves. He was flat out the most damaging player the Wolves have ever played against. Yes, he gets the advantage of coming here often, being a division foe, but he was the epitome of consistency. And he really didn’t exhibit the self-involved nature that LeBron has to anywhere near the same degree. LeBron is not evil, but he is also a bit of a poster boy for what turns off some casual fans to the NBA altogether.
by ogishkemuncie on Jan 1, 2012 10:26 AM CST up reply actions
re: the mailman's self involved nature
he had his own dunk and google around about his relationship with his daughter. it is a complete deliverance that the mailman didnt play in the era of blogs and twitter. (although calling yourself the mailman is probably a tad less self centered than calling yourself the king)
that being said, good call on him being a target center destroyer.
Karl Malone was/is a far more disgusting human being than LeBron.
From injuring other players intentionally to statutory rape (and ignoring the result of that rape afterwards).
Karl Malone is kind of like Chuck Norris.
They were really physically impressive and there is a lot of natural good will around them. But then they start talking and you realize they are insane right-wing fanatics who want to kill all gay people and mexicans. Really nasty people.
time will only tell, but...
…as a stand-alone player, Love obviously puts up better stats and is an absolute monster.
BUT!
the upside of Rubio is that it seems like he elevates the game of the other players on the court. So, Love might be a +3 in terms of awesomeness (on my made-up scale), and Rubio, taken alone, might be a +2, but he makes the other four guys all play +1, so he’s actually contributing +6…if that makes sense.
I think the two of them need to be together and just need one more piece. Take away Rubio and you’re taking two steps back…just my opinion!
Not to mention the absolute PR nightmare if the team deals Rubio…Minneapolis would BURN!
by davechisholm on Dec 31, 2011 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
Like many of these discussions...
The replacement matters. In Rubio’s case, Ridnour can’t help this team run its offense very effectively. The Wolves half-court offense is devoid of playmakers, and Rubio might be an elite one. Love can be replaced for stretches by Derrick Williams or (last night’s version of) Anthony Randolph who can be effective for stretches.
Rubio may look better than Love by comparison for some games because of his +/- and the way everything gets energized when he’s on the floor.
But it’s a much-more difficult argument when you get into the “If you’re starting a team from scratch…” discussion. Love has the look of a reliable 23-26 points and 12-20 rebounds. That’s pretty ridiculous and even if it doesn’t show up in crunchtime in some games, that production over 48 minutes has helped the Wolves have these late-game chances against the NBA’s very best.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
by Andy G on Dec 31, 2011 12:10 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
"the upside of Rubio is that ... he elevates the game of the other players"
Ding, ding , ding. We have a winner. Minnesota was not capable of either the OKC or Miami game last year, in spite of Love’s 20/15. It’s early, but I doubt Rubio’s presence is merely a coincidence.
If Rubio didn't have Love alongside him this year
He’d be in the same spot as Love was last season (probably worse).
by WolvesFan03 on Dec 31, 2011 12:21 PM CST up reply actions
it's tough to say this early in the season...
…but the wolves’ biggest run last night came when Love was on the bench w/ 4 fouls and Rubio was playing with AR, Dwill, etc. SO early in the season and he’s making scrubs look good.
this is no knock on Love, don’t get me wrong. Love is necessary…but last year, Love made everybody else on the team look bad by comparison. Ricky makes them all look good (not by comparison, but by elevation!).
The most extreme version of this is the play of Al Jefferson. I’ve never seen a player rack up such great stats while failing to make the team around him better.
In my opinion, they are BOTH necessary.
by davechisholm on Dec 31, 2011 12:37 PM CST up reply actions
They're both necessary and legitimately exciting players to have
Rubio’s early play is absolutely terrific, and the fan base is rightfully stoked about him.
But I knew we’d see this type of logic employed once this team improved (i.e. the Love was here last year and we sucked and now rubio is here and we suck less—therefore, rubio is superior). I guess I thought it’d take longer to come to pass than after 3 games and an 0-3 record, though.
by WolvesFan03 on Dec 31, 2011 12:48 PM CST up reply actions
I think Rubio would be better than Love even if without Love he still get assists to the open made unlike any other Wolves for a number of years I guess since Cassell left we have had shitty shoot first pgs and terrible basketball IQ in the backcourt
I'm avid basketball fan and Manager of a little known team (tallandthicks) on little known internet based basketball manager site charazay. trust me I love this game
by tallandthicks on Jan 1, 2012 12:26 AM CST up reply actions
Kind of an odd comparison.
I’d rather consider them both important building blocks and move from there.
That is certainly true...
and it is a pretty awesome compliment to Ricky that we can say that after 3 games.
I hate these kinds of comments
but value wise – DThrill + Pek as basic package for Iggy?
At this point I’m ok rolling with Barea, Wayne, and Luke at SG. What SF upgrades are out there?!
by Dr. Wolfenstein on Dec 31, 2011 9:53 AM CST via mobile reply actions
What be mist realistic
Is if we can be the supplier for a big time salary dump on their end
But if we could come up with contract equivalent ( Beasley, pek, Randolph, Johnson, ridnour) to take both iggy and brand’s contracts we could possibly even get a pick out of the deal and keep Williams. We’d get an excellent back up for Love and we could still trade Williams for something else
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 31, 2011 2:39 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Ah, the Robert Frost classic tome,
“What be mist realistic”
by zero_on_up on Dec 31, 2011 3:10 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Or it's the first single from
MC RobiFrost’s last posthumous hip hop album Da Fork in da Road.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Dec 31, 2011 3:44 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
All i am saying is if we want a sg
At least get good one and he is the best also he can play 3. If this team is serious about going into win now mode he’d help a TON on both sides of the floor. Martin sucks = Iggy is a legit player at least
I'm avid basketball fan and Manager of a little known team (tallandthicks) on little known internet based basketball manager site charazay. trust me I love this game
by tallandthicks on Jan 1, 2012 12:30 AM CST up reply actions
this made me laugh
-22 wins anyone?
It’s a good idea, and Phila seems poised to make a move if they continue to suck donkey balls. I’m not sure taking on both contracts is feasible, or wanted…but it’s worth a look if it gets us two other actual NBA players without having to dump RickWill.
Lob City? I prefer Skip-pass County.
What might be realistic
Is if we can be the supplier for a big time salary dump on their end
But if we could come up with contract equivalent ( Beasley, pek, Randolph, Johnson, ridnour) to take both iggy and brand’s contracts we could possibly even get a pick out of the deal and keep Williams. We’d get an excellent back up for Love and we could still trade Williams for something else
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 31, 2011 2:40 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Fair point re: Wayne
but I’d still start him until we have a better option. Wes should get buried on the bench. He’s awful.
SF
I’d actually like to see Wes at small forward to see what he could do.
I don't think it matters where you play him,
he’s just not a good player. He doesn’t do anything well. He can’t dribble. He’s a supposed shooter that can’t shoot. He doesn’t deserve minutes anywhere.
And we have several years of evidence that this is the case. He wasn’t good at Iowa State. He was terrible last year, and he’s off to a horrific start now.
Wes this year
is worse than Wes last year. He was unbelievably, both bad and stupid last night. He plays with zero energy and hasn’t been shooting well. My only hope is that Adelman can help him. He needs to not be a starter though. I think he’ll actually be better coming off the bench. Maybe try starting Wellington until we get somebody better.
I love ping pong balls!!
Don't mimmick
Think for yourself. Research. Averaged 12pts, 8 boards as a freshman at Iowa
Led the team in scoring as a soph. and to a #4 national ranking. How is that not “good”.
Coach lost him when he forced him to play with a foot injury.
You can like him or not and say he’s not playing well. All fair, but don’t make things up.
Meanwhile is there another player who should have been guarding Wade on the last play?
Please name him.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Dec 31, 2011 11:49 AM CST up reply actions
I'm an Iowa State fan
after the Gophers. Sorry, but have to ask…#4 ranking? Exactly what year did I apparently sleep through? I love me some ‘Clones, so I know I couldn’t miss that.
You can't dust for vomit.
by twinstalker on Dec 31, 2011 12:57 PM CST up reply actions
I had read that team was ranked as high as 4
If that’s wrong I apogize. I didn’t cross reference it.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Dec 31, 2011 1:12 PM CST up reply actions
Apologize
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Dec 31, 2011 1:13 PM CST up reply actions
I'd rather see you apogize.
Because I’m curious now.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Dec 31, 2011 3:46 PM CST up reply actions
It's when you're undergoing an apotheosis, but you decide to return to earth to live among mortals.
Bodhisattvas do it.
"Opinion ...a confession."
In fact, they were 14-18 that year,
4-12 in the Big 12, good for 11th place in the conference. “Research” indeed.
by Madison Dan on Dec 31, 2011 1:33 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
HP
SS!
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
S!
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Dec 31, 2011 3:46 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Thank you!
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
YW!
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Dec 31, 2011 9:31 PM CST up reply actions
missed that. Thanks for stepping in.
Too hot to handle, too cold to hold
They're called the Ghostbusters and they're in control
First, I have to thank God for putting me in the position
to save that situation. Jesus Christ is the only reason I’m here to . . . I’m sorry. What the fuck am I talking about?
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Dec 31, 2011 9:32 PM CST up reply actions
I'm done on Wes, and I was a big supporter of his
That play SNP highlighted is the exact one that did it for me. Same reason I’m stoked about Malcolm Lee.
That kid did a stupid turnover and busted his butt to get back and prevent the easy basket. Hopefully he comes back strong from the knee injury.
Also, Randolph looked great last night. That guy is a shapeshifter. crap one night awesome the next.
Dwill is not a two, not even better then Wes. He travels and turns it over way too much on the perimeter.
by Tollysnipes on Dec 31, 2011 12:42 PM CST up reply actions
I don't understand why everyone is down on Wes.
He shot well in college and that seems like something that will translate well to the pros. %
They just need to
run him off of screens.
Plus, I met him.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Nice post Chuckd
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Dec 31, 2011 11:35 AM CST up reply actions
It's simple really
So far he’s been a HORRIBLE professional basketball player. It’s nothing personal, but he doesn’t rebound well, he doesn’t handle the ball well, doesn’t shoot the ball particularly well, and while he can make good passes from time to time he’s a turnover machine. Other than that, he’s quite an asset.
by DTrim on Dec 31, 2011 10:02 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
He was too passive at Syracuse
He tended to float through games without asserting himself. That tendency has translated into the pros. Also, lacks confidence dribbling. Doesn’t like contact. Dare I say, too nice?
"The Spurs subliment their statistics for the good of the team" Kings Coach PW.
This is a good question
He wasn’t passive but he didn’t consistently demand the ball in clutch situations. When he got the ball he delivered but he didn’t always demand it.
He was too willing to defer, unlike a Williams who is the exact opposite. He doesn’t have a Jimmer mentality and it seems as though he has questioned his role since day 1.
I have no doubt Adelman will bring out his strengths but as I predicted there is definately a learning curve.
I respect SNP, but players just don’t have "two good months " out of nowhere. A great game? Yes. Two or three? Yes. Two months? ( and SNP and I disagree on that issue..he was hurt then finished strong to win POY). No. It takes talent.
Guys want to close the book on these players. Not every guy is a superstar. You see the athletisism with this team and Rubio’s ability to maximize it.
Doesn’t Kahn’s plan seem to make a bit more sense now that he has the point guard he had intended?
This team just went 15 rounds with the two teams many predicted to be in the finals.
The team has more talent than many would lead you to believe. Adelman doesn’t just have to do, he has to undo. These guys will get better and better. Does the team need a two guard? Yes!!! I’ve been crowing that for a year. Is Wes the answer there? Absolutely not. I love what I’ve seen from RA thus far and Im confident he will maximize the talent on the roster, Wesley included.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Dec 31, 2011 12:16 PM CST up reply actions
This team has more talent than many would lead you to believe
Except it doesnt. They are talented in the sense that they are amazing athletes and good college players, but I think nothing could be further from the truth that “undoing” things will square the circle. The roster will be “maximized” by not playing players like Wes and Beasley for a ton of minutes. That is exactly what happened last night. He didnt play the “talented” players. He rode the two genuinely talented players as much as possible. The Kahn plan bit is just flabbergasting. Not having a wing player after all those picks and….oi.
Also, 2 months in college works out to how many games? Yes, that is a small sample size. Whatever you want to call the thing that allows for people to play good pro ball, Wes doesnt have it.
Sorry, 1 more thing about the Kahn bit
His intended point guard was Jonny Flynn. They didnt think Rubio would be there.
Where is this coming from?
From everything I read Flynn was a placeholder that if he worked out would allow them to trade Rubio.
However, Rubio was always the first option.
by Tollysnipes on Dec 31, 2011 12:45 PM CST up reply actions
I'm 80% confident that if the picks went like this...
1: Griffin
2: Thabeet
3: Rubio
4: Evans
Then DK would have done this…
5: J. Flynn
6. James Johnson
The artist formally known as Shane Heal, but FORMERLY known as Blakeley
No chance he passes on Harden
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 31, 2011 2:41 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
just like no chance he passes on Curry
Too hot to handle, too cold to hold
They're called the Ghostbusters and they're in control
If it hadn't been Ricky
it probably would have been Thabeet. That might have made it the worst draft a team has ever had.
worst draft ever
Too hot to handle, too cold to hold
They're called the Ghostbusters and they're in control
But it wasn't
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
no it was not
Too hot to handle, too cold to hold
They're called the Ghostbusters and they're in control
Is that true?
If Rubio wasn’t there the plan was JF? That surprises me.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Dec 31, 2011 1:00 PM CST up reply actions
I'm guessing if RR wasn't there
And Flynn was the plan, they would have also taken Curry at 5 and or Lawson at 18.
So…..
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Dec 31, 2011 1:02 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think so
Word at the time was that Kahn loved Evans and Thabeet and didn’t think much of Curry or Lawson. He put a lot of weight on the workout, during which Evans and Flynn really looked good.
Tyreke and Johnny would have been a interesting, to say the least, pairing
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
IIRC, they were ramping for Tyreke and Jonny
thinking Jonny could actually defend and Reke could handle the ball. I actually thought this could be quite interesting…using Jonny as scoring 1 w/o the ball… but I also thought he would be able to defend the 1…or any PG in the NBA – which he can’t.
For what it’s worth. I wanted DeRozan. So…now that I’ve just discredited myself…
Lob City? I prefer Skip-pass County.
He actually said
“One of the top on the ball defenders in our league”
Lol. Is he literally at the very bottom?
I'm sorry to disappoint you
kahn changed his story through the year to make it seem like they really wanted reke, but j-fly was his guy. they didnt want either guy you listed because they thought flynn had more…..wait for it….upside.
if rubio wasnt there, they would have ended up with whoever fell: thabeet or evans.
I post this all the time but...
"We couldn’t believe our luck that Rubio was there at five," Kahn says. "And we love Jonny Flynn. We had them ranked as the second- and third-best players on our board."
Never forget…
The artist formally known as Shane Heal, but FORMERLY known as Blakeley
In Every sport I take draft comments like these with a grain of salt
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 31, 2011 2:43 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
By the next summer...
Evans was “their guy” all along. Which means…
How can anyone think
that the dozens of duplicating picks, trades, and free agent signings were part of any Orchestrated Grand Plan? Most of the players involved either don’t play for the Wolves any more, or they never will.
Honestly . . .
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
the only real plan of his entire tenure has been the biangle buyout
to his credit, he was able to deftly maneuver the team through several worthwhile players in order to reach the destination of getting enough money to pay off the wrost coaching hire in franchise history….who he is also responisble for.
This will allllllll be settled
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
I'm not sure that's accurate
Wasn’t all of the talk that we were planning a trade with SAC for Evans if James Johnson (or whatever) wasn’t sniped by the Bulls before our 18th pick?
The idea was to move Flynn but we got stuck with him.
james johnson!
that’s who they liked. i dont know why i thought of gibson. reke/thabeet, flynn, johnson. that was their non-rubio plan.
Shit, I just saw that you said this. Sorry for the redundant comment above!
The artist formally known as Shane Heal, but FORMERLY known as Blakeley
Thanks for the breakdown.
A Flynn, J. Johnson combo at 5 and 6 would possibly have been the worst drafting in history. Dear God.
I agree and disagree about Jonny
I think Jonny was a back up plan to Rubio and I do think Kahn thought they could at times play together, but. Rubes was the pg of the future (and I’m so impressed ). They couldn’t play together and just like Ridnour and Rubio shouldn’t. Rubio is a true point guard who needs a true two guard next to him. I was surprised JF went where he did. He’ll still have a career but it was an early pick and unnecessary pick for Wolves. The no two guard is the most glaring flaw in Kahn’s drafting. We fully agree. But these athetes were put in place with the expectation of Rubio’s arrival and you are getting a taste of how he can maximize their athletisim into NBA production.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Dec 31, 2011 12:51 PM CST up reply actions
other things ricky is good at maximizing:
actual production of good players. much better to surround him with good players than good athletes. this is the basic flaw of kahn’s approach, if we can even call what he did an approach. he forgot about things like players being good or having produced. randolph and tolliver are good, however. i wish i could believe they were here for reasons having to do with someone evaluating their actual production.
Here's the deal
And you so rightfully pointed it out. This team lost last night for one reason and one reason alone. Turnovers. You may equate turnovers to talent. To some degree that is true but it is also the most correctable flaw moving forward. It is also an area in which Adelman can have enormous impact. And I love that he’s not afraid to sit guys whom others perceive should be playing.
Anyway, less to’s and this team is 2-1 against three playoff teams. I like.
This team had enough talent to win. They need a guard to solidify them as a playoff team. But I still say there is much more talent than some people say.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Dec 31, 2011 1:48 PM CST up reply actions
"he" is Rubio (and really Adelman to).
I, like most was worried about the early schedule, and they peed away game two. But I think this team is talented, yet flawed as most are, but a heck of a lot of fun. I’m sticking with 30 wins!
And remember. At this time last year they lost back to back 40 point games to Heat and Magic (if memory serves me well…..I could be wrong).
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Dec 31, 2011 12:57 PM CST up reply actions
Adelman "too"
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Dec 31, 2011 12:58 PM CST up reply actions
they are certainly close
i view good pro ball like a clock. 1 working hand imeans you have a broke ass clock. 2 working hands is an average clock. having a seconds hand means you can really be good. extra bells and whistles are nice if you can get them. it also helps to have someone who can wind/set up the clock but this isnt as important as the working parts. last year the wolves had a broke ass clock.
by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 31, 2011 1:03 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Just remember SNP
Even a broke clock…,,,,
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Dec 31, 2011 1:28 PM CST up reply actions
. . . can win 32 games in two seasons.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Dec 31, 2011 3:50 PM CST up reply actions
After Rambis, it's refreshing to have a coach who knows what he's doing
Allocating playing time and determining usage are the two most critical aspects of coaching, and Rambis was terrible at both because he didn’t understand who his most productive players were (and perhaps just as importantly, didn’t seem to know who his least productive players were).
by WolvesFan03 on Dec 31, 2011 12:40 PM CST up reply actions
Shawn Respert (whose entire career I saw with season tickets)
was a unanimous All-American and Big 10 Player of the year. He had FOUR good YEARS, not just two good months. He was a really talented college player and I loved watching him. He also sucked as a pro, for three different teams across four seasons. It can happen.
by Madison Dan on Dec 31, 2011 12:30 PM CST up reply actions
The real irony is...
that he rebounded and blocked shots really well in college and that does translate really well to the pros. He should not suck this bad, but at this point it is a reality.
There has to be a confidence factor at play
it’s the only logical explanation.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 31, 2011 11:06 AM CST up reply actions
I'm not really a fan of "confidence" as an explanation for anything...
I can see an argument for shooting, but rebounding and blocking shots are things you just do. The only hope i have left for Wes is that he needs to play at the 3. Maybe he will start getting his blocks and boards again if he gets moved closer to the basket.
Whether you're a fan of it or not
Confidence does indeed, I believe, play a factor into it. I can’t prove it, true, but (sorry to do this, but having played the game on fairly high competitive levels it’s my basis for why I believe this to be true) if you’re playing on a competitive level and you don’t trust your shot to go in….it makes the game tough. I certainly can’t relate to the NBA level, but I’d be very surprised if it weren’t a factor that, while undefinable, is consistent.
Now you ask a fair question…why would rebounds and blocks not happen in the NBA when they are “supposed” to translate, and how is it a confidence thing?
Most ball players are wired to let the offense determine how the rest of their game goes….is it the right way they should approach basketball? Probably not, and the great role players are the ones that don’t even care if they touch the ball, but when they do can make something happen. But most players, especially a guy like Wes who was used to scoring a lot and now finds himself having to fight to even be bad at scoring in the pro’s….I am not surprised at all it has effected the rest of his game. If it is indeed the case, which I believe it to be
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 31, 2011 11:37 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It definitely matters,
but Wes has technical problems with his game (he can’t dribble) and like vjl110 points out, confidence is probably not contributing to non-shooting factors.
When Ray Allen had that shooting slump in the ‘08 Playoffs, I’d guess there was a mental component. Wes continues to struggle in all facets of the game, now with the assistance of a legendary coach. If things don’t turn around QUICKLY, he’ll never see a starting lineup again.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
No I get that.
But the conundrum from vj110 is that Wes did things in college that “staistically” are proven to translate to the pro’s, rebounds and blocks for starters…my point is, for most bball players at any level….defense comes secondary and is often predicated on the mindset established by your offensive game….or your shot going in, with this Wes J example.
I’m not saying that if Wes becomes a 40 percent 3 point shooter all will be good, but I would not be surprised to see the other areas of his game that he supposedly could be could at start to pick up if he hits his shot.
2 side notes.
1.) Syracuse should never be trusted for NBA players again, but
2.) Is it fair to say Rambis may have ruined Flynn and Wes? It’s not like either player was ONLY considered by the Wolves to have prospect value in the draft. Both players would have been top 10 picks if not by the Wolves (maybe we took them a bit high but still), I’m curious to know how much the Rambis factor plays in to all this
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 31, 2011 11:50 AM CST up reply actions
(Was Johnson was a .397 shooter from three last season.)
I’m not saying that if Wes becomes a 40 percent 3 point shooter all will be good, but I would not be surprised to see the other areas of his game that he supposedly could be could at start to pick up if he hits his shot.
If only he could nudge that percentage .003 up!
"Opinion ...a confession."
Ha didn't even realize that.
It seems like he was a lot worse than that….
Well, we’ll see. Maybe I’m wrong
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 31, 2011 12:19 PM CST up reply actions
The problem Wes on those other stats is hustle
He just coasts around and is always a step behind the play.
In College he might have been able to catch up after starting slow, but not in the pros.
He doesn’t work hard enough and is therefore always behind the play.
by Tollysnipes on Dec 31, 2011 12:48 PM CST up reply actions
Does Wes
hang with BEasy too much? he seems off, a bit…
by WinTheLottery on Dec 31, 2011 3:12 PM CST up reply actions
.356 3P
.397 total… but he’s shooting .385 from deep in small sample size theater this year and is still managing a PER in the low 3’s, so I think the point is going to be proven moot.
Funny that both of us thought about Ray Allen in '08.
That really was one of the weirder cases on file. HOF player, and he lost it.
"Opinion ...a confession."
Yeah it really was strange.
I think he regained his touch just in time for that Detroit ECF. Atlanta (!!!) and Cleveland took Boston to seven games, in large part due to the Ray-Ray shooting woes.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
yep after your layup rolled out in the IMs semifinals last year
you weren’t the same player
Pek apologist
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Dec 31, 2011 11:48 AM CST up reply actions
One of the more interesting stories in sports, for me, is the idea that emotions cause results, rather than the other way around.
For example: Teams talk all the time about how they were just flat coming out for the second half (or whatever). If only they could learn to focus all the time and be consistent! These letdowns are all about their states of mind. So they say. Ask any team, and especially young ones like the Wolves, after a loss, and you’re going to get some responses like that.
If I set a copy of NBA2k12 up with an overmatched team, I can make myself feel that same way though. “My guys’ legs are heavy” is a really easy perception to come up with, even when I know the players involved are animated polygonal shapes. Why are my guys running like they’re in quicksand?? They need to try harder!
We all know what you’re saying. Ray Allen in the one playoff run, when his shot broke for a while, lacked confidence. No doubt.
But isn’t it pretty damn likely that when you’re an overmatched team, when you lose, you’re going to feel like you were “flat” afterward? And when you miss your shots, aren’t you going to feel differently about them afterward? It isn’t just sports…. People report, when they get divorced, that they knew all along the marriage was doomed. I don’t think that’s necessarily an accurate sense of what they felt, either.
"Opinion ...a confession."
There's a balance
As with most things in life there are two sides to an argument and the truth of the matter is probably somewhere in the middle.
From all the great work I have read that vj110 does I get the sense he values being able to explain why things happen through empirical evidence. I think he does great work and there is a lot of merit to the argument, but I don’t believe everything in sports is mathematical (not that vj110 does believe this….maybe he does maybe he doesn’t). I try and present the opposing view points of things like “confidence, leadership, intangibles” because I also value aspects like that that can’t be quantified.
I’m positive that all of Wes Johnson’s problems are not mental and that if he merely “get’s it” then all will be better, he’s a flawed player….but I would be very surprised if there wasn’t some light bulb effect that goes off with him at some point in his career where he realizes he can contribute at an NBA level and be productive and he will be a solid role/rotation player.
Tebow might be the ultimate example of a guy who believes in himself but has no tools, what confidence can do for him.
Wes has some tools, he might not have a lot, but like Darko….they have ability and I do think part of the problem is mental.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 31, 2011 12:04 PM CST up reply actions
tebow has more tools than wes
Pek apologist
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Dec 31, 2011 12:07 PM CST up reply actions
Tebow *is* a tool.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Dec 31, 2011 3:53 PM CST up reply actions
If only Wes Johnson loudly proclaimed his faith
and was white. He could be a sports sensation!
Someone start the Michael Jackson treatments on Wes.
Who’s the best candidate to spill Jesus all over him? Hell, Ridnour and Tolliver are in-house. They can do the preliminary work.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Dec 31, 2011 6:47 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think anyone would argue that mentality means something.
Heck, for that matter Love’s ability to get into position for boards, and Rubio’s court vision, are basically mental skills.
I just think, pretty often, we get things exactly backwards when we’re talking about what caused what, because our emotions come into play in odd ways. And I don’t mean that as some sort of scathing, or dogmatic, or extreme take, or as even a criticism. It’s damned interesting, like I said before. Amazing, how we make decisions.
"Opinion ...a confession."
Yep
Yeah I’m with you. I just likewise don’t want to disregard the mental aspect of why someone who has tools to be a solid NBA player is so sucky.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 31, 2011 12:25 PM CST up reply actions
Not confidence
Iowa State. People seem to forget what he did there before 2 good months at Syracuse while being 2-3 years older than the teams he was beating up on.
Yes, but this is also
the assumption that he could score like he did at Cuse is the wrong way to look at it, and you are correct for pointing out the Iowa State angle and all that.
But the guy has the tools to be a “quality” player in the NBA, and one that I believe you SnP are looking for. People are calamoring for Kahn to trade for Jared Dudely…and I’m on board for the right deal certainly…but Johnson has tools to do what Dudley does, just be a hell of a role/rotation guy.
He’s playing some of the worst basketball on the team right now, and it sucks and I would not shed a tear if they moved him, but I do think you let Rick work with him a little bit…how about starting a lineup with him/Tolliver/Love/Rubio, get him playing with good players to put him in positions to score the ball efficiently.
Is he going to be an All-Star? No. I can definitively state that even for a guy like me who believes that players have the right to improve…it’s not there mentally. But I am confused at why he completely sucks and why he isn’t even a quality role guy….I think that is still attainable.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 31, 2011 11:42 AM CST up reply actions
This.
I think we can find common ground here. Wes Johnson’s confidence is completely shot. Wes Johnson sucks at professional basketball. Wes Johnson’s confidence is completely shot PRECISELY BECAUSE HE SUCKS AT PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL.
by TheH on Dec 31, 2011 11:42 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
One thing about the turnovers
And refing not being the issue:
I would really like to see how many offensive fouls were called on the wolves. These show up as turnovers, and were many of the worst calls by the refs (in my estimation).
Trill write up mayn
Az yall kno I kind uv went off de deep end last night after Lebrons charge i mean de and 1 call in de 4th. I apologize to da CH community mayn for mah language and aythang but it wuz a result uv being SO hyped about how THOWED Rubio AKA God was playing. I love dis team yall I really do. I cant WAIT till we play a terrible team in de Target Center and Rubio goes HAM on dem. Dat place wuz poppin from de look uv thangs. Also watching Wes Johnson iz REALLy taking a toll on me and my sanity dat guy iz de worst.
BTW Tim Allen wuz dat you dey kept showing a closeup on sittin courtside!? Doze seats iz Boss Status mayn!!!
MAYN HOL UP!
by MAYNHOLUP on Dec 31, 2011 9:58 AM CST reply actions 5 recs
I think it's a tad bit unfair to say we only had Love and Rubio
Tolliver Randolph and Williams all played really well, and yes it seemed like Ellington played well.
In the grand sense of what you are getting at I understand….but it was a team effort and they wouldn’t have been in that game without Randolph and Tolliver and even Ellington who did an admirable job on Wade all things considering.
When you break the game down to the analytics your point was the Wolves can’t afford to give the Heat 10+ extra possessions and the final shot/foul calls weren’t the real issue. If I’m over simplifying what you are saying I apologize, but my initial impression is: Do you believe if we’d have only turned the ball over 15 times we would have won by like 10 or something? There seems to be an eb and flow to basketball games, especially NBA games, where the flow of the game is established by the way the teams are playing. I.e. in the 4 the Wolves would turn the ball over, but they got the possession back forcing the Heat to rotate the ball to someone not named LeBron/Wade. Or scrapped for a rebound they shouldn’t have gotten.
What I’m getting at is, if you’re gonna beat the Heat….you’re gonna have to do it in crunch time. Ideally you don’t turn the ball over as much, but I would be surprised if we wouldn’t have had to deal with the late game situations even if we had 10 less turnovers.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I gotta add:
If we keep missing free throws at dis rate I don’t think Im gonna survive did season…FREE throws!!!
MAYN HOL UP!
+1
Refs and the opposing team’s talent level aren’t in our control…FTs and TOs are
by Los Lobos Del Bosque on Dec 31, 2011 10:10 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Is it really all Wes' fault?
Worked at a company a few years back. The powers that be would always would pick a fall guy who was “the source of all the problems.” Some employee who wasn’t cutting it. They would bad mouth him and put a big negative cloud over his or her head, and then ultimately fire them. While there was always a bit of truth to what they said, I could point to a number of basic things that were wrong with the company that would easily outweigh the shortcomings of one employee. But they never could look in the mirror and instead would pick the fall guy. I left because I knew my day would come as the fall guy.
My point? Yes Wes has sucked, but it’s obvious his confidence is shot. He sometimes takes shots he shouldn’t but also passes up shots he should. Butn each game he’s made a few nice passes, actually made a key 3 or two and played some scrappy d. Personally, I just think it’s stupid to write him off right now. Seems like an easy reclamation project. Darko’s gotten a chance over and over and he still contributes some good stuff. Randolf surprised us all with a solid game.
I think we have to let Adelman do his work. We’ll know in a few months who’s worth keeping or not. Until then we should just support our guys. But I’m a homer. That’s what I like to do. That’s what’s fun about sports to me.
by Rodman99 on Dec 31, 2011 10:10 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Randolph has a history of success...
we should all be wary, but he is worthy of “hope”. For all the deserved hate directed Darko’s way, he does have several NBA skills, and is valuable when he focuses only on those aspects of his game. Wes is a different story. Our losses haven’t been Wes’ fault, but only because he isn’t allowed to impact the game very much. There are approximately 0 examples of 24 year old players who have played over 2,000 minutes and shown absolutely nothing becoming productive players. Stick a fork in him.
AR was
+18 in 25 minutes last night, Wes was -11 in 17 minutes.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
I am probably AR's biggest supporter...
unlike all these other guys we keep hoping will turn it around, AR has actually proven a productive player for long stretches. His preseason performance was atrocious, but I really want to see him start taken minutes from Beasley and even Tolliver. Randolph is the only guy currently on the roster that has a non-zero chance of becoming that 3rd good-great player we need. He showed it last night. Let’s roll the dice again and get him in the game.
by vjl110 on Dec 31, 2011 11:01 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It's hard not to think
that without Anthony Randolph and the boost he gave in his first stint, that game is never close.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
I'm with you on this
(which should concern you). He’s 22 1/2. He will gain weight and fill out. Put him at center, tell him never to leave the “no charge” zone on either side of the court, and he’ll eventually be a Top Ten player at that position.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Also teach him to pass please :)
He looked a lot better in the Heat game, but those preseason games where tough to watch….it was Jack City
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 31, 2011 11:43 AM CST up reply actions
The best thing about AR
is that he seems to feed off of Rubio. Unlike Darko and Pek, AR can run and finish on the break. And, he seems to be ready for Rubio’s alley oops when they come
by nextmove on Dec 31, 2011 11:58 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Good Point
The Rubioop to AR was nice.
Michael Beasley is a Small Forward. Derrick Williams is a Power Forward.
Yes
I hope Adelman realizes that Randolph has a good shot to be the third clearly above average player on this roster. He was good last night, and despite being in his 4th season, he only has 2500 minutes logged at the NBA level (compare to Wes, who has racked up 2000+ in just one year and 3 games).
by WolvesFan03 on Dec 31, 2011 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
Also
checkout Team Emo’s* ORtg from last night:
Beasley 58
Darko 90
WorseJohnson 74
Luke 94
*Yes, I’m going to keep using “Team Emo” until it becomes a “thing,” so you might as well just get used to it.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Correction
Worse Johnson’s ORtg last night was not 74, it was an even-worse 70. We regret the error almost as much as we regret him being drafted with the 4th pick.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
With "Team Emo"? Me too.
What is it about Luke? He’s the edgiest player, as a PG…. Makes me jittery. Gets jittery himself. It’s like watching a method actor who’s cracking up.
"Opinion ...a confession."
He's Heath Ledger post-Joker.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Dec 31, 2011 3:57 PM CST up reply actions
I think his role as starting 2-guard needs to be evaluated.
That being said, it’s his 2nd year, with a truncated preseason and a new coach. If there’s anything worthwhile in Wes’s game, I trust Adelman will find it. Right now, I feel that Ridnour makes a better off-guard to play with Rubio.
Great writeup as always, sir
When you miss that many FT’s and turn the ball over that much, you can’t blame the loss on the officials. However, the frustration is understandable – the superstar calls culture of NBA officiating is just maddening. Remember all of that talk about the need for ‘competitive balance’ in the NBA during the lockout. Well, here’s a novel idea that might help that – how about making it an equal competition by applying the same rules the same way to everyone?
Not ready to give up on Wes yet, thought his play over the first 3 games has been disturbing. Give Adelman some time with him.
I was hopeful but not optimistic about the Unicorn. What a pleasant surprise. He’s already forced a lot of his skeptics to shut up.
There are many things to love out this team relative to prior iterations, but my favorite may be that we finally have some guys who can shoot the 3-ball.
"how about making it an equal competition by applying the same rules the same way to everyone?"
I am all for this, until Love and Rubio have earned the “star” treatment. Then, what’s good for the NBA is good for the Wolves.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
We'll be unstoppable
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 31, 2011 10:14 AM CST up reply actions
Love gets his calls
Admit it or I’m sicking ChuckD on you. ;-)
The call that pissed me off as much was when Battier jumped in close to Randolph and then flopped. That to me is the stupidest part of the NBA rule book.
Yes, Love gets treated well already.
Not the elite-level handling, but he’s doing just fine.
No problem admitting that
Sure, he gets calls. And loyal Twolves fan though I am, I have a problem with it. This whole idea that there is a hierarchy like that degrades the integrity of the game. In other sports, stars may get the benefit of the doubt that average players don’t, but you don’t see umpires shrinking Jeter’s strike zone to a third of what it is for everyone else.
Basically, I think there are 4 classes of players when it comes to officiating in the NBA
1) Stars – get close calls in their favor
2) Superstars – get bad calls in their favor
3) Megastars – get preposterous calls in their favor
4) Everyone else – gets nothing
Love has been getting Star calls, and is starting to get Superstar calls. That foul on AT was a Megastar call. Only a Lebron, Kobe or KD gets a +1 continuation on that. Lesser stars probably get a blocking foul called on AT. Anyone else, it’s a charge.
by One_Eyed_Jack on Dec 31, 2011 12:51 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Love gets his calls. But he deserves them, and not because of some star status.
He’s really, really good at drawing fouls. Love’s increase in free throws is as much (more, I’d say) a cause of his star status than an effect of it. The guy mixes it up down low.
And that pump-fake-get-fouled thing? Those are fouls. He’s using the threat of his very good three-point shot to bait a defender into fouling him. That’s him being good, not the refs bailing him out.
As they say,
calls come with aggressiveness. Typically, at the end of the game, the team with more fould shots is the team that played most aggressively. At least under the basket, Love is one of the most aggressive players in the game, and he gets calls based off that, more so than from his perceived star status.
He obviously gets the majority of calls because he deserves them...
…but he does get ‘star calls,’ no question about it.
And the proof is in the pudding. Remember his first few years when he would just get hammered down low, but not get a call? The refs reward aggressiveness, as you said, and also focus more attention on the star players. Pretty much a fact of the game.
Surprised no one is talking about the fact that
Adelman is proving to be an incredible judge of who to put on the court in crunch time. And where on earth did last night’s Anthony Randolph come from? He played like he was born to dunk on the Heat.
Correr como un lobo.
Hopefully he can prove to be an incredible judge of starting lineups
and hopefully by Sunday
cause we have 2 winnable games coming up that would really excited people if it could happen
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 31, 2011 10:15 AM CST up reply actions
Why does starting
matter so much?
German but human.
by in-the-game on Dec 31, 2011 10:17 AM CST up reply actions
Sets the tone for the game
gets your best lineup playing together right away.
gets your best players playing right away.
if you’re the Spurs, you can afford to bring Ginoblli off the bench….if you’re the Wolves I don’t know if you have the luxury
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 31, 2011 10:20 AM CST up reply actions
I think it's smart
Not to let Rubio get schooled in the first few games (Westbrook, Jennings).
Now with Kidd and Parker, I think he can hold his own.
Will also be interesting to see what adjustments Rubio will make. You can see everyone is looking for the bounce pass. Last night had to be the most kicked balls I’ve ever seen in a game. I’m sure he has a few more tricks up his sleeve.
Speaking of Kidd
this game really had me believing the JKidd comparisons….all the way down to the dagger three he hit.
That’s all he needs to be able to do. Hit that dagger when the defense completely leaves him open
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
But 48min lineup optimization
should have priority over playing the best lineup (which may or may not consist of your five best players) right away. I have no clue if that’s the case with Rubio coming off the bench, though.
German but human.
by in-the-game on Dec 31, 2011 10:31 AM CST up reply actions
"an incredible judge of who to put on the court in crunch time."
He’s drawing on five decades of basketball experience to discover what most Wolves fans knew before the season even started.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
this is the really sad thing
last year rambis and co were ginormous pricks to everybody who questioned the obviously stupid things they were doing. he was sooooooooooooo quick to the phil jackson/i played the game trigger. anyone with an internet connection and 5 minutes of free time could have run out better rotations.
correction "Most people with an internet connection..."
My mom certainly could not.
Pek apologist
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Dec 31, 2011 11:50 AM CST up reply actions
I am certain your mom could have won more games by simply letting the players call their own numbers
also she would not have run the quadrangle so yes!!!! my mom > Rambis!!!!!!!!!
Pek apologist
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Dec 31, 2011 12:00 PM CST up reply actions
I've always said so.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Dec 31, 2011 3:59 PM CST up reply actions
I think SnP's favorite Kevin Lynch
provided what I think is the most accurate description of watching Miami on defense and in the open court:
“They’re like a pack of Dobermans.”
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Kevin Lynch is worse in NBA 2K12...
than the fake people they created to fill out the rest of the 1992 Charlotte Hornets roster.
The more you know…
The artist formally known as Shane Heal, but FORMERLY known as Blakeley
my favorite play of the night
Was when Ricky called for the high pick from Love as misdirection. He pointed to the ground, Love barely began to move forward for the pick, the defense just started to slack, and boom, alley oop to Randolph. It was absolutely genius.
In fact, watching Rubio’s highlights, he used Love as a smokescreen on almost every assist to Randolph.
by monkeywolf on Dec 31, 2011 10:15 AM CST reply actions 5 recs
Harbinger Aztec 2012-Apocalypse?
Two threes from Rubio! One of them a dagger, late..
by Los Lobos Del Bosque on Dec 31, 2011 10:16 AM CST reply actions
Rubio's true coming out party
el cacharro was en fuego. I believe Randolph’s good game was directly relatable to Rubio. Rubio should have started the the third quarter. The flow that had sparked the second quarter was gone. We would have added to our lead, rather than losing it.
I am curious as to how many dunks the HEAT had. Seems to be almost a third of their baskets. What team has the highest percentage of their scoring from the dunk?
I think Adelman was sending a message to Beasley who played himself to the bench, seemingly on purpose, never to return. Ellington did play well, for him, but he’s pressing. He’s fully aware that his job is on the line.
I agree with the feelings about Wes. We just won’t be able to win without more contribution from his position. If he is not the man to do it, it needs to be addressed sooner rather than later.
1 point I really want to drive home this year...
…is the importance of cutting losses as quickly as possible. The league is now filled with a lot of smart people with lots of data. The chances of finding people who overvalue assets are dwindling. The chances of Wes “getting it” are low. Hopefully they still aren’t lower than the chance of him still being overalued by someone….but I doubt it.
by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 31, 2011 11:41 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not sure why that makes me sad, but
I tend to think you are right about Wes. But, I love the underdog. I love the story of a guy that comes in with high expectations, is a huge bust his first year, and then works his ass of with a new sense of dedication and comes back and surprises everybody. Maybe it was watching “One on One” with Robby Benson ( Come to think of it seeing Lebron on RIcky reminded me of the scene where coach smith puts that brute on Steele and says "What you have just witnessed is an exhibition of Mental Warfare…) as a kid that always hopes for a redemption.
You still see it in Baseball. Players coming up too early and having a horrible first month or two of baseball before figuring it out. I hate the “smart people with lots of Data” era of sports. I much prefer when players are judged by heart and when there value on the court can’t always be measured with data.
I was at the game on opening night, last night and will be in attendance tomorrow. I must say the games are entertaining, but I also must say I’ve gotten used to the post KG years with small attendance and the luxury of watching a game without being surrounded by the Football mentality sports fan screaming idiotic nonsense at Refs, Wolves players and the opposing team. God, I hate being surrounded by so many people who seem to think that they are the entertainment and not the actual game on the court. As if their running commentary should be appreciated by all those around them. I love RUbio and Love and I do want that third player, but I also long for the empty Target Center where I casn enjoy NBA basketball from at least one team and not have to share it with other fans. I guess its back to the coach.
Yeesh.
I feel just the opposite (not about the fans who think they’re the entertainment, but I think spirited fans add to the environment/enjoyment…and they can positively impact the game). A half-empty Target Center is depressing. And it’s only half-empty if the home team stinks.
I'm looking forward to Target Field this summer
Nothing like a stinking local team for those that hate crowds.
Only thing better?
The Metrodome on a beautiful August afternoon when the team was already 25 games out of first.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
It was fun for me, during school...
to buy a ticket for 3 to 5 bucks on the street and watch Shaddy McCants Versus The World from a great seat.
But come on—season tickets are still very affordable (by NBA comparisons) and the atmosphere and basketball product are night and day.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
Absolutely, on the Season Tickets.
But, you can’t expect them to stay that way.
I love the spirited fans. Especially when it is generated by the way the team is playing. Crowd noise that is the result of great plays, what a concept. Someone should tell that to the Twolves management. I mean why do sporting events feel the need to manufacture noise. No one had to tell fans to cheer back in the days at Williams Arena or even the KG days. SOmeone tell BWright to please shut up. Fans will cheer when there is something to cheer about.
And it is possible
That I just happened to get stuck next to a blowhard who cashed in on cheap season tickets. I am not looking forward to the rest of the season and being seated directly in front of this guy. He thinks he’s at a Viking game.
I love the basketball product. But, I’d love it more from my couch, (not coach).
I'm sorry
I’ll try to be more quiet and less drunk next time.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Go ahead and Drink
but, yes, please be more quiet. Hell, I’ll buy you Several Summits if you just be quiet.
I enjoy the Wolves crowd.
It brings a little bit of everything. Apparently (and unfortunately for you) that now includes the obnoxious NFL fan.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
i thin you are right about the growing vikingization of the local fan base
i do think there is such a thing. i havent seen too much of it at target center but as they get better it will undoubtedly be there in greater force.
This is one advantage of
college BB and FB. Yes, there are dimwits and dipshits in the fan base, but the drunkards are usually 19 year olds who slammed a Natty Ice before coming to the game. Somehow I find that more charming than the 50 year old unstable overweight guy from Maplewood spitting “F*CK THE PACKERS” all over my wife and children.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
by PoorDick on Dec 31, 2011 3:04 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Ha..
…Yep, you’re right though. Minus the wife and kids, I still get to feeling sheepish when my fellow fan makes a total asshat of themself.
There’s been a lot of kids at the target center, young kids at that. It was cute as hell when the 5 year old girl next to me was trying to get crunch’s attention; “cwunch! cwunch!”.
well put
and they do all seem to be either from maplewood or plymouth.
i just worry that kfan will attract more of them to wolves games.
Eh . . . we already get a preview of what
the worst version of NBA fans look like whenever the Lakers or Heat come to the Target Center
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
That's true ring cred
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Still a lot of Wolves talk on KFAN so far ...
But it would have been 24/7 if WCCO hadn’t started broadcasting TWolves games this year instead of KFAN.
The thing that stood out to me from the game was how bad Target Center got dated in just 20 years. Not fancy at all, and I have low standards.
by fanslaststand on Dec 31, 2011 9:13 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I wonder if there are any
kids or teens " listening" to these threads, and the game threads in particular.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Dec 31, 2011 3:24 PM CST up reply actions
I was at a game last year....
…and watched a kid in front of me comment on the site. It was kind of surreal in a weird way…even surreal ones. He even showed it to his dad…who shook his head.
It would have been awesome
If you kept responding to his posts with information that only he and you would know about and got more and more specific as the game went on.
Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.
I guy at work said "It's too bad you don't play World of Warcraft"
I responded, “I have more edifying things to do with my time.”
He asked, “Like what”
I couldn’t contain my laughter at the irony I spend my time on CH following the wolves!!!!!!
Pek apologist
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Jan 1, 2012 10:49 AM CST up reply actions
I am
the guy who coaches. its why I go to a game. so I can sit close enough to tell Lebron he sucks and yell at wes to cut. if you don’t like people yelling and such… watch at home.
by bringbackbrewer on Dec 31, 2011 3:01 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
Yes, that was the point of my post
Time to go back home and leave Target Center to you
I usually
like to watch from home but when I go I like to be loud and obnoxious to the players… it makes it more fun for me and usually I’m sober. I didnt mean to say your not a fan or your weak. I don’t even mean to be a jerk but I do like to be loud.
by bringbackbrewer on Dec 31, 2011 3:11 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
I didn't take what you said as an insult
I just don’t like crowds. I like and attend sporting events like a theatre patron with season tickets to the Guthrie attends Shakespear plays. I really enjoy athletic players and the artform that results from competitive play.
I don’t mind the sideshows all the time. Fans cheering when the T-wolves do something positive gets me going too. Certain Crunch antics. I laughed when I saw Darko on the bigscreen reading “Twas a night before Christmas.” Hell, I have enough testosterone in me to enjoy the Wolves cheerleaders also. The kissing Cam (So far, thank God, it hasn’t showed up, yet, this year), B-Right yelling “On your feet Target Center, Make some noise” before anything has happened to make any noise about, and self-absorbed fans who think all the other fans sitting near them actually go to the game to hear their commentary and are entertained by their unoriginal rantings to Twolves, opposing players and the refs, all these aspects of the game I do not enjoy at all.
I recognize this is my problem. I can put up with it in an empty arena. Actually hearing the Wally lookalike yell for Target Arena to make some noise was amusing in a pathetic sort of way given the reaction of most of the fans in the arena like me over the past couple of years who wouldn’t leave their seats for anything and cheer for no good reason. So, I’m happy to go cheer from my home seat in my living room and listen to the television announcers (Is it Jim P. and Hanny, this year?) break down the game. The drama then remains the bball game and deep down I am a fan that wants the Twolves to win and succeed and that means more money in Glen’s pocket which is all fine by me.
The best are the bad coaches
Barking nonsense. With very little grasp of what actually is going on in the game. They know the terms but just don’t know how to apply it to the actual game at hand.
Usually what I overhear is just a meme-fest. Regurgitated sports radio and StarTrib stuff. Can’t remember the last original insight I’ve overheard at a game.
Original insight
Tolliver should sit on Darko’s shoulders.
by fanslaststand on Dec 31, 2011 9:59 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
This thread has caused me to examine my actions/antics at the game.
I am careful never to yell profanities, or to even say them under my breath if kiddos are around. I cheer a lot—sometimes at specific players in encouragement . I do boo and yell at (non-Wolves) players I do not like. Especially last night with Chris Bosh. I hate that guy.
exactly.
I try not to swear… though I did on the AT charge. I do get obnoxious but it is all in good fun. I really don’t care as much as I act like.
by bringbackbrewer on Dec 31, 2011 3:35 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
Why does anyone get there, anyway?
Is there really a difference when there are kids around? The goal in heckling someone, to me, is to make them laugh. When did a player ever play really well while laughing at the home-town crowd?
"Opinion ...a confession."
I yell more at my little brother's games
However, it is much more enjoyable to yell things when my wife isn’t sitting next to me telling me to be quiet.
Pek apologist
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Jan 1, 2012 10:52 AM CST up reply actions
It was funner to yell at players when I was younger, like 10. Could get away with it.
Dan Majerle called me the biggest brat he’d ever seen. Good times.
Age takes the fun out of it though.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 1, 2012 1:02 PM CST up reply actions
Reading a discussion
between Andy G and Andy B is even harder to follow than one between Madison Dan and Eric in Madison.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Or your arch nemisis GoodDIck
The artist formally known as Shane Heal, but FORMERLY known as Blakeley
We probably don't write as cogently
as those elitist Madison types.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
Oh, his stature
is elevated by the confusion.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
I've noticed that Eric and foobee
have been almost totally absent from the site since I watched a game with them at the bar. I hope they turn up, because I clearly have no alibi.
Maybe JaF's source finally was either fired, or told him to stop making things difficult at work.
"Opinion ...a confession."
I seem to remember that JAF...
… kind of gestured at a diminished posting role a while back. I wish he’d still weigh in from time to time, though; he was one of the must-read posters when around. Man, we’re spoiled here.
Biggity needs to get back as well
BrettAlghwhatever hasn’t been around much lately either
Pek apologist
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Jan 1, 2012 10:53 AM CST up reply actions
I went to the game last night with a friend who is from LA
and a Lakers fan. She had a great time at the game and is rooting for the Wolves as her #2 team, but it is funny to hear her compare Staples to Target Center. She said you can hear the players yell and sneakers squeak during the game at Staples, because they don’t play music during play. (Also, all of the music—including the old school stuff—is rap, hip hop, or soul… she said they never play like, Journey, for example :).
Don't let Steve Perry of Journey
hear you talking like that.
I'd like to think Minnesotans have more class than Hollywood types
But, alas, it is not so….
Why are we such hicks? We didn’t always used to be this way, you know. There was a time we used to like to listen to the sound of players yelling and sheakers squeaking, even if it was KG yelling a Mother####er at the top of his lungs.
Been to Staples, twice for Clips once for Lakers
It’s a whole different beast. Much-more aggressive ushers keeping you from anywhere near a lower level seat without a ticket. Celebs all over the place (for Lakers). Huge arena. My friend asked Curtis Conway and Charles Woodson for a picture. Woodson was nice-enough to oblige. Conway not so much.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
BWright
Someone needs to smack the happy outta BWright lol he’s TOO positive
Are they griz still trying to trade OJ?!
/who else is available?
I doubt that's why he's playing 30 minutes
in big wins over the Rockets, but who knows.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
Nice post, SNP
Agree on LBJ and his Target Center history. There’s nothing quite like seeing that guy in person.
Watching replays of the Wade play—it’s Rubio and Love on the screen. I don’t know how they’re coached to handle that, but Rubio tried to fight over it, Love was glued to Bosh (the screener). Together, they couldn’t have made that easier for Wade to be open.
I can live with Rubio and Love’s turnovers. The team’s other 14 turnovers were the ones leading to the dunk contest, and were being made by players that don’t create even a fraction of the offense that Rubio-Love do with their efforts. The most egregious example is Wes Johnson, who committed 3 turnovers in 17 minutes of unproductive action.
Unbelievable game, extremely-disappointing finish.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
Thanks for the analysis. One thing I have to disagree on though.
Love has to at least show on that screen, and more likely switch. Watch the play again. Love’s eyes never leave his man. I’d bet he didn’t even know it was Wade. His defensive awareness on that play was very poor. I can’t say anything about his overall defense as I haven’t watched enough, but that was not good. Still, a great game and I’ve enjoyed watching this team very much this year. Any thoughts on when Rubio may start?
He's been starting more or less since game 1.
More minutes and finishing the fourth say a lot more to me than whether he gets the first 8 mins of the 1st and 3rd quarters.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
Love and Williams
Not sure what Love was doing trying to deny Bosh the ball but Williams was also chasing his man (Haslem) way out to the near corner before realizing what was going on and almost breaking up the play. A split second sooner and Williams tips that away.
Love should have sagged a bit but probably wouldn’t have been able to break that up.
Not sure of exact number
But it took J-Fizz about 150 games to post 10+ assists in a game.
Rubio did it in 3 games coming off the bench.
by fanslaststand on Dec 31, 2011 11:08 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Against what is
probably a historically-good defensive team, and playing with what are historically-bad offensive teammates (other than Love).
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Can you imagine...
how difficult it must be to create an assist with LeBron, Wade, Bosh, and Battier loping around with their arms outstretched. At any given moment there must be about 3 inches of court-space that aren’t within one of their arms’ reach.
and leg reach
Never seen so many kicked balls. Half of them were even called.
That had to have been
part of the pre-game plan.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Adelman
Can really coach. Playing the guys with hot hands. Playing Tolliver at SF. He has even gotten very good effort out of Darko. I wasn’t as excited about AR as others because the Heat started to take advantage of him defensively in the low post with Bosh in the second half, but kudos to Adelman for giving him a lot of run against what is a good matchup for him.
The big problems on this team other than the continuing festering sore at shooting guard is that Beas and Ridnour seem to have checked out. Neither guy wants to be here for whatever reason. Beas’s heart to heart with Wade at the end of the game made that clear to me.
Not A Wolves Fan
But two things impress me about Rubio:
(1) This dude is in tremendous shape. He can run all day and barely look like he is a breaking a sweat.
(2) I have never seen a PG may such consistently long passes in the half court. Pretty amazing, actually. Really hard on defense to rotate when he finds guys 20 feet+ away.
Nailed a clutch three, sweet….but c’mon Wolves fans, that shot is ugly.
"The Spurs subliment their statistics for the good of the team" Kings Coach PW.
I don't care how his shot starts
but I like how it ends.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
I'm not in panic mode yet
We just almost beat 2 of the best NBA teams in the league at home (both coming to the last possessions). Adelman knows what he is doing. Let’s give these guys more time and let them start picking their spots and hitting shots. Also Love and Rubio are a match made in heaven for a wing scorer. Hopefully we get one but I’d like to give them 20 games before we know for sure we need it from another roster. Adelman has his ways…
Pek apologist
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Dec 31, 2011 11:44 AM CST reply actions
Why would you even suggest panic mode?
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 31, 2011 11:45 AM CST up reply actions
maybe he meant "panda mode."
but i’m not even sure what “panda mode” is.
by davechisholm on Dec 31, 2011 11:45 AM CST up reply actions
You do not know the ways of
the Dragon Warrior?!
What's wrong with the NBA is what's wrong with the USA: too much respect for superstars and not enough for working class heroes.
It's also known as
“pandemonium”
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
The lesson of the past four seasons:
Moral victories lead to bad losses.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
by Andy G on Dec 31, 2011 11:47 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
3 games into a new regime
seems early to me.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 31, 2011 11:51 AM CST up reply actions
also Kurt Rambis leads to bad losses
Pek apologist
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Dec 31, 2011 11:52 AM CST up reply actions
Speaking of Kurt
If he were on the sidelines, I suspect he’d be getting blasted pretty good for that defensive lapse on the out-of-bounds play.
Why wasn’t anybody watching the hoop?
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
Williams almost had a huge steal though
Not sure who’s to blame
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 31, 2011 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
Adelman suggested in the huddle the action to Wade, and if you see the play after replay, he immediately is staring at Williams in anger with a “WTF we just went over that play” look on his face.
Michael Beasley is a Small Forward. Derrick Williams is a Power Forward.
Interesting, thanks--
wondered what the plan was there. Probably “help off Haslem, not Bosh” if D-Thrill was the culprit.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
I saw that live.
Adelman literally jumped out on the court, clapped his hands in fury, and screamed.
Dang rookies
It was pretty clear, Ricky was trailing Wade off the pick and D-Thrill (I like this) was supposed to give help but was passive.
Where there is a D-Williams, there is a way
I was talking about the let's trade this player right away thinking
Pek apologist
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Dec 31, 2011 11:51 AM CST up reply actions
I wouldn't pass up a trade to get better players
unless it involved Williams…who isn’t untouchable…but gotta make sure it’s the right player
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 31, 2011 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
Correct if the trade is offered we make it
However we don’t NEED to trade everyone right now if that makes sense
Pek apologist
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Dec 31, 2011 12:01 PM CST up reply actions
not panicing, but no more time
we know who can play, who cant, and where the help needs to come from. i think waiting for growth/development is part of the minny sports culture but it needs to stop. if they need to wait for a firesale for a trade, fine, but no more waiting or patience for obvios flaws. more good players. as soon as possible. they have a stud big man entering his prime. get him help.
I hear you SnP
However, I think there is some time. We know what we have in these players much like we know in what we have in green beans, cream of mushroom soup, and fried onions. However, we have yet to see if Adelman can cook them into a tasty casserole or not. I want to give adelman more time with these guys if it is possible. Of course if its Jan 15 and Love says upgrade the roster or I’m gone… trade everyone but Klove, Rubio and JJB.
Pek apologist
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Dec 31, 2011 11:55 AM CST up reply actions
KLove is 23?
I totally buy the argument that the urgency should be placed on whether he’ll want to stay here long term or not.
But once we sign him to a 5 year deal or whatever…..let’s be real this kid is gonna be awesome through his mid 30’s. Big men get better with age, and his game is not predicated on athleticism and he will always have a jump shot.
Love might play till he’s near 40 at a very high level barring injury. I think to an extent you are over-exaggerating the dismissal of waiting for players to develop.
I mainly am referring to the case of Derrick Williams….I think anyone else besides Love/Rubio/Barea and Williams you can do what you want, but I think he’s one you just gotta let develop at this point.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 31, 2011 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
the argument should be based on giving fans a good product on the date of their ticket
the urgency is because they have a roster with fixable problems and they need to fix them instead of hoping for things that just arent that likely to happen.
You're argument is rock solid in theory man
I just think it’s tough to do for all 32 teams. Some teams are gonna get the brunt of it and just not be able to do that….the only thing they can really do is develop young talent. No?
Minnesota should not get this excuse automatically….but what’s a team like Pheonix supposed to do? Just play the Nash era out and let him leave as a free agent? Or try and get say….Darren Collison and Paul George from Indiana and he can help lead Indy to the playoffs and heck, that’d be a pretty good team maybe contend for the East….and then PHX gets two nice young players to build around
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 31, 2011 12:09 PM CST up reply actions
it isnt possible for all 32 teams....
….because there arent 32 people on planet earth good enough to be worth building around and because everybody has blindsides. win when you can, if you get a great player dont let go, “potential” doesnt exist when you need it, and so on and so forth.
Okay.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 31, 2011 12:21 PM CST up reply actions
I'm thinking 10 years out
when Vegas gets the team ;)
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 31, 2011 12:22 PM CST up reply actions
It doesn't help that the people on the planet who are good enough
are ending up in groups of 2 or three on one team.
We might eventually have 2 of them though....
which is another reason why SnP’s argument is very valid
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 31, 2011 12:23 PM CST up reply actions
A completely agree, SnP
The dead wood needs to be cleared. Some are stepping up, while others are dropping out.
I wonder if Kahn is willing to part with Wes considering this comes after Yawny Flynn departure. Given Kahn is in final year of 4-year contract, that would imply a big admission on his part.
Where there is a D-Williams, there is a way
Did I miss the thread where it was decided that...
protracted discussions of “He Who Shall Not Be Named” are no longer verboten? ;)
(mostly joking :)
I do not have to participate. I can just sit back and enjoy watching PoorDick and whomever he goads into playing with him.
Enough with the Bill Maher joke tweets
I'm avid basketball fan and Manager of a little known team (tallandthicks) on little known internet based basketball manager site charazay. trust me I love this game
by tallandthicks on Jan 1, 2012 3:24 AM CST up reply actions
(You've got your terms mixed up.)
Given Kahn is in final year of 4-year contract, that would imply a big admission on his part.
David Kahn was hired in May of 2009.
1 year: May 2010.
2 years: May 2011.
3 years: May 2012, and several of us think that’s the end of his 3-year deal.
4 years would be May 2013.
"Opinion ...a confession."
For any fans like myself, bumming about these three losses...
I’ve found a great pick-me-up to be looking at the Wi-ZARDS box score from last night. If that doesn’t do the trick, Google “Andray Blatche” and read at your leisure.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
Blatche and his criticisms of Flip's offense are interesting.
Basically he directly went at Saunders and his fancy-pants schemes. How else are we s’posed to read complaints about how he shouldn’t be used in pick-and-pops, and so on? It’s like a prototype for how people criticize Flip.
The irony that Andray’s actually better at those little jumpers than he is in the post – contrary to his own perception – is one wrinkle. But man, that’s a sign of the Flip Saunders jump shot offense reaching its point of diminishing returns, as far as locker room buy-in goes. Isn’t it?
"Opinion ...a confession."
it is too bad that blatche has to be the guy to point out the obvious things about flip.
(i still remember all the wally minutes)
it is a pick and roll league and he’s running the nba version of the wishbone.
After Detroit and now Washington
some in hoop circles are saying that Flip is a well-worn carpet for NBA players.
Where there is a D-Williams, there is a way
so now he can make the switch to being a college hoops coach so players will actually listen to him?
"My love for Jerry Kill knows no bounds." - Jeffrick
by TheEvilProfessor on Dec 31, 2011 3:59 PM CST up reply actions
Which is probably how RSIII should have been used
Ironically the gophers would have been a lot better I think. But Nolen and Rodney would have been TERRIBLE. The Hollins, Oto, Coleman would be decent, but there would be some UGLY nights.
"My love for Jerry Kill knows no bounds." - Jeffrick
by TheEvilProfessor on Jan 1, 2012 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
in other ncaa news...
…the 2k/year idea didnt go over well with schools and there are apparently emails with talk about….well, pretty cartelly/colludey stuff that doesnt have a whole lot to do with “student athletes”.
how does the NCAA maintain tax-exempt status again?
Never could figure that one out.
"My love for Jerry Kill knows no bounds." - Jeffrick
by TheEvilProfessor on Jan 1, 2012 2:38 PM CST up reply actions
rubio needed as one of love +2
Rubio is a point guard that makes others much better. you would need to turn him into that kind of player and No One gives up that kind of player. we shouldn’t either
by midlife crisis on Dec 31, 2011 11:53 AM CST via Android app reply actions
What is funny about Rubio is that he makes so many fundamentally un-sound plays
and tries things that most players are coached never to do. That resulted in a lot of nice plays, but was also the cause of a lot of the turnovers.
And, like always, I think people are too down on Wayne Ellington.
Follow me on Twitter @timallenonline
Until Rubio's our starter
he’s going to make turnovers when he comes of the bench and then keeps playing out the half. If he started, then rested and then finished, I think his turnovers would drop a lot.
What's wrong with the NBA is what's wrong with the USA: too much respect for superstars and not enough for working class heroes.
will teams adjust?
Those cross-court passes are dangerous if one set of defensive eyes is looking for it. I love his game but it will be interesting to see if he can keep on doing these things as the league sees more and more of him.
Rubio's smart
Teams thought he wouldn’t shoot much, guess what he’s shooting more. If teams start looking for those passes, guess what, those passes right under the basket will be there.
If the defense has more to account for, that creates pressure on them too.
Just as having a PG who can actually run a pick and poll creates pressure on Haslem underneath, opening up Ellington in the left corner, in one of the dishes Ricky had last night. That’s how that particular long pass worked.
"Opinion ...a confession."
He is going to impact all players.
So hard not to like a point guard who wants to be….. a point guard.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Dec 31, 2011 2:53 PM CST up reply actions
If Love and Bosh
were on opposite teams, Miami would stroll to an NBA championship and the Wolves would be in line for a 12 win season.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Dec 31, 2011 12:27 PM CST reply actions
I disagree with the second part of that
Bosh lead an average Toronto team to 47 wins.
He gets so mercilessly ripped for being Chris Bosh….but he’s a heck of a player…
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 31, 2011 12:28 PM CST up reply actions
Yes,
weird how this is so soon forgotten.
Miami was a poor choice for Bosh’s legacy. He can anchor an average team and put up some numbers.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
He should have gone to Chicago
They would have beaten Miami with Bosh in Chicago
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Dec 31, 2011 12:33 PM CST up reply actions
Bosh had good teammates in Toronto
Too hot to handle, too cold to hold
They're called the Ghostbusters and they're in control
Just rewatched the replay of that last play
If williams was a split second earlier to the ball we could be talking about him winning the game on a dunk. These are the types of things that will come more time with RA
Pek apologist
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Dec 31, 2011 12:28 PM CST reply actions
We almost beat LeBron on his Birthday!
When it’s my birthday you don’t even want to mess with me and the amount of paper I push.
Rome wasn't built in a day
Fun game to watch...a few points
I don’t know how you can sound down about this team when it comes to talent, we came up 1 possession short against both the eastern and western conference favorites so I think there is talent on this team. After the first 3 games it’s pretty safe to assume every game we’ll have an advantage at the PF and PG (being a true PG) positions.
Wes has not been good but I’m not ready to give up on him just yet, I think he does have some talent so hopefully having a good coach will get more out of him, I wouldn’t continue starting him though. Also I don’t agree with players arguing calls and not getting back on D but it’s not fair to Wes to get on him about it when Love does the exact same thing.
That last defensive play was brutal but I don’t put it all on Rubio needing to get stronger, those type of plays really need a good team defensive effort. I really liked how alert Williams was on the last play, you could see him set up to jump and defend the lob but the pass wasn’t great so he just missed the ball. As soon as you saw Wade curl you knew it was going to be some type of lob and Love needs to recognize this (especially if RA just told them to). He was basically at the elbow when Rubio was picked and if he just stayed put instead of guarding Bosh 5 feet outside the 3pt line he probably steals it or atleast deflects it.
talent is ok
RA won’t coach a team without talent. He learned that at his 1 failed nba coaching job. it want for love of Kahn that he came here
by midlife crisis on Dec 31, 2011 1:17 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
I would like to see
Rubio/Wes/Beas/Love/Darko starting tomorrow.
Wes gets a shot with Rubio. If he still stinks, then get thee to the benchery.
Then
Rubio/Ellington/Beas/Love/Darko on Monday.
Beas gets another shot with Rubio. If he does not do well, then get thee to the benchery.
Then
Rubio/Ellington/Williams/Love/Darko and trades.
Reduce turnovers, reduce personal fouls, shoot better, win.
I thought we were playing the Mavs tonight.
Turns out its tomorrow. Sadface.
And Rubio is on the front page of NBA.com. Buzz.
Live And Stupid From England
When will we get a lineup change, and what will that change be?
I’m going to say:
Rubio
Wes/Wayne
Tolliver
Love
Randolph
by Jan 15th
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Dear Friends, don't bring sombreos to a bullfight!!
As Steve Aschburner points out:
“sombreros are wrong on a couple of levels. First, it’s a little shaky to reduce anyone’s ethnic heritage to an article of clothing and a clichéd one at that. (There, HTB’s political correctness obligation is officially met.)
Second, and more pertinent, the big, floppy brimmed hats that dotted Target Center Friday night are a product of Mexico. Ricky Rubio is an import from Spain."
=====
Better choice of headgear:
a Spanish bullfighter’s montera
=====
Moreover, feel free to bring carnations. El Masnou, Spain is renowned for carnations amongst many other notable historic aspects. Besides, throwing carnations would smell much better than the normal TC fare (if you know what I mean….phew).
Where there is a D-Williams, there is a way
maybe it is a good thing the manther isnt here
i cant imagine what sort of culturally insensitive clothing would have come out of that situation.
To be fair
I just like to wear dashikis.
Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.
by nja700 on Dec 31, 2011 1:55 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
It was redonkulous
and embarrassing. It was a small number, but sombreros + mustaches + ponchos.
There were people in crazy costumes in that section, too. (Like a banana costume, a giant chicken, etc.).
I thought someone posted about this last week looking for input and was advised against sombreros.
Lordy. People are going to embarrass Rubio out of town.
“Olé Olé.” Groan.
"Opinion ...a confession."
So Lays has to scrap
their Frito Bandito reprise?
That sucks.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Dec 31, 2011 1:55 PM CST up reply actions
The Houston Rockets have the same thing
A section of fans that are all over the top to help spur on a rowdy environment. It’s something like they get deep discounted tickets but they have to act like “Super Fan”, even when walking through the concourse.
I would guess 20+ teams do the exact same thing. There is nothing original anymore.
by fanslaststand on Dec 31, 2011 11:15 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Who says no to this trade...
Orlando Gets...
Michael Beasley
Phoenix Gets…
Martell Webster
Daniel Orton
Minnesota Gets…
Josh Childress
JJ Redick
The artist formally known as Shane Heal, but FORMERLY known as Blakeley
JJ would be great but
Does that make Barea lower caps “jj” and Redick, upper case “JJ”?
Where there is a D-Williams, there is a way
it really pains me to say it
ut redick would be ah-may-zing on this team. if any gm is dumb enough to male that deal, it is otis smith.
lol
You sound just like a Star Tribune Commenter. Count the RINGZZZ
The artist formally known as Shane Heal, but FORMERLY known as Blakeley
I feel like Otis Smith does this trade in a second...
Beasley seems like a player who would be right in his wheelhouse, and Redick played 25 minutes a game last year, and 24 minutes a game this year.
The artist formally known as Shane Heal, but FORMERLY known as Blakeley
ouch
Childress suck and Redick is perhaps slightly better player than ellington stop re-ranging the deck chairs on the titanic get Iggy problem solved
I'm avid basketball fan and Manager of a little known team (tallandthicks) on little known internet based basketball manager site charazay. trust me I love this game
by tallandthicks on Jan 1, 2012 3:21 AM CST up reply actions
we have deck chairs!?!?!?!
man do I need to get out of the bar once in a while!
Lob City? I prefer Skip-pass County.
Ha!
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 1, 2012 8:52 AM CST up reply actions
That would be such a good lineup
JJ is a Tolliver type player, he just does whatever needs to be done. I don’t think he is a full fledged ‘all-game’ guy, like playing 35-40 minutes, but he can certainly start and finish games.
Kahn is fully capable of making dummy trades
he doesn’t need help from fans.
Phoenix will give late first rounder to anybody who accept Childress for expiring contract. And nobody in his right mind will accept it. Orton is worthless (but cheap, and on non-guarantied contract), but Webster still have some value.So Phoenix says yeeeeeeeeeeeeees.
Orlando at this point with gamble with anything that could give them any chance to keep Howard. Beasley is very low-risk gamble – on expiring contract. Redick is slightly overpaid with one more year on the contract, defensively challenged player, and they have J. Richardson as starter. This trade will unbalance their roster, but they says yes.
Minnesota at this point needs to put draft picks on the table (Utah’s and Memphis’s 1st rounders), player with some “promise” that have any trade value (Beasley, AR, Pekovic) and try to land veterans on SG and SF positions capable to be starters (and are good fit with Rubio – so no combo guards that love to have ball in their hands – pure shooters on SG, no ball handlers on SF neither – spot-up shooters that are athletic enough to play good defense and could finish Rubio’s passes around the rim).
So, let’s see: redick is shooter what is good but doesn’t play defense and is overpaid. Chilldress is worthless, overpaid and has contract for 4 more seasons. So, noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
Eh
You are pretty correct, but JJ is a good defender. Above average, at least.
Besides, we aren’t giving up any players we need either.
Agreed...
… JJ’s undeserved reputation as a terrible defender parallels Loves undeserved reputation as a terrible defender. Redick will do whatever the coach asks of him, shoot the lights out on a moment’s notice, and give average defense at a position of need. I don’t understand why we don’t make a push for him… Imagine the terror he’d be playing 15-20 mpg alongside Rubio.
Exactly
I really think he is a Tolliver type guy. Just works super hard and does whatever is asked. Plus he has quick feet, is really strong for his size, and is smart. I’d love him on our team; just another heady team first guy.
If we believe we can build around who we have in Rubio and Love (plus maybe Williams), then we need to start bringing guys like JJ (and Tolliver) in.
Some thoughts after 3 games
-Rubio is for real – his shooting will be fine and improve (his free throw % in Europe over the last 3 years was 80% so it isn’t like he has no touch). His turnovers will come down when 1) he gets to know his teammates better 2) they get to know him better. 3) the offense solidifies 4) he adjusts the the quickness and length of NBA defenders
-Love and Rubio are going to drive NBA defenses crazy for the next 15 years – they both have incredible stamina.
-Ellington has heart and competitive fire that I like. He competes. He was the ‘man’ at North Carolina and will never be the ‘man’ with the Wolves. If he adjusts to a role player he can be a very valuable rotation player. I would be alright with him starting at this time.
-Wes has no fire in his belly. He appears to be just happy to be in the NBA. I agree they have had him playing out of postition, but still…. hopefully we could still get something for him.
- Nobody has rooted harder for Beas than me but his NBA track record is being consistently inconsistent. If anything is important to being a winning team in the NBA, is your teammates being able to count on you game in and game out. It appears that Beas needs to be the ‘man’ to live up to his potential and that isnt going to happen on the Wolves. There must be a team that could use his scoring potential that has something we need long term.
-I know nobody here wants to hear patience but c’mon – out two core players are 21 and 23. I think we can lay to rest the bromide that no one good will ever want to play in ‘frozen’ Minnesota. What scorer wouldn’t want to play with Rubio and Love.
-I can’t wait for the the next game to start.
Like these insights
I agree with most, especially re: Beasley, who I really root for but who seems to be (rightfully) on his way out.
The one problem with patience is the fear that Love ain’t got much of it left, and that just playing with Rubio (and not getting another really good player who is a WING) won’t be enough to appease him. Maybe I am being paranoid, but it’s a sense I’ve been getting, and one that’s been fueled by SnPs recent piece and cryptic comments.
Beasley: I root for the guy to a fault. It kills me, he has such ability (ability is the new word I’m going with instead of talent lol), but two games I would even classify as bad. I think they should just bench him for a week or two while the coaching staff just works on things with him.
Patience: Here is the shortsightedness of worried about Love’s patience, you asked “when will Love’s patience run out and how much longer will playing with Rubio be enough?” My thought is that, his patience just needs to be enough to sign an extension….then you get a 5 year window to build a contender around Love/Rubio
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
The extension is the key, my friend.
I could see him signing a shorter one, a la the Superfriends, too. That’d be fine. We just need him to sign and I fear it’s not a done deal (for the—admittedly ambiguous—reasons stated above).
Yes..
My great worry is losing Love, also. Am I wrong in thinking that if we don’t get him signed to an extension now, we can match and offer made off season and retain him?
We're going to offer him the money, that's not the concern.
He must sign the extension by January 25th or become a restricted free agent (and then we can match any offer) OR he signs a one-year qualifying offer, plays one more season here, and becomes unrestricted after next season. The latter is the big concern. (Still doesn’t mean he’s automatically gone, but leads to an obscene amount of trade speculation—a la Melo, CP3, etc.—is a huge distraction, etc….and frankly, if he intends to stay, he’ll avoid that).
I certainly hope that the month of January
playing alongside Rubio will give Love enough hope.
Restricted free agency
seems to serve its purpose of helping retain players. Love would leave some serious dough on the table by taking that qualifying offer. I’m estimating, and correct me if I’m wrong, but his Q.O. would be about $6M and an extension signed today or next year could bump that up to about $13 or $14M. And that’s just for that one season (2012-13). He’d be taking a risk that an injury doesn’t drastically lower his next long contract.
I’d guess LeBron and Wade had enough endorsement money to make it somewhat less serious of a decision (and I realize they didn’t take a Q.O., but left long-term money out there in signing shorter extensions).
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
Love's Ego both worries and calms me.
He wants to play in a big market and on a big team, but you can clearly see he relishes being the top dog on a team.
If Kevin Loves thinks the Wolves cam start winning
he will stay. If this season somehow becomes a cruel encore to the last two I can’t imagine him staying.
He seems genuinely encouraged. He seems to love Rubio. They just need to get through this nasty early schedule and start stringing together some wins.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 1, 2012 8:30 AM CST up reply actions
Agreed
I do think Love would (and should) be willing to walk if we have another horrific season.
However, I have read a few articles where he is very frugle and manages his money well. I find it hard to a guy like that to turn down his first big contract, which would be about $2 mill a year more than anywhere else.
All said, I’m confident he signs a max deal with us.
When asked McCain or Obama:
I don’t know. I really haven’t ever been that political, but now that I’m making money I guess it affects me. I guess whoever’s not going to tax us the most. That’s tough – I’m not big into politics, but that’s where I’m at.
Link.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
Derpity derp.
Politics affects me because of money. Yikes.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 2, 2012 2:32 AM CST up reply actions
Political analysts and consultants
Already know how most of us will vote in the next presidential election and as prejudiced as our decisions are I’m guessing “Yikes!” might aptly describe many of the criteria that will actually determine the relatively small numbers of votes that are undecided.
"pokin' the animals at the Canis Hoopus zoo"
by pastyearsears on Jan 2, 2012 4:19 AM CST up reply actions
Undecided = low information
My theory
is that most elections come down like Yankee Red Sox rivalries, we don’t care as much about candidates, their stands and promises, as we just can’t stand the idea of the other side and the people who support it winning.
"pokin' the animals at the Canis Hoopus zoo"
by pastyearsears on Jan 2, 2012 11:37 AM CST up reply actions
It's a really fascinating subject with tons of good research
Here’s a good site for casual blog reading on related topics:
Think about any issue. Now think about how, at the cliched end of the day, it really isn’t hard to make up your mind about said issue to the point of being able to figure out which camp you fall into. If you can’t make up your mind about issue x, y, or z, chances are, you probably aren’t paying attention.
As for the 2 sides stuff, it’s pretty much unavoidable:
Worried about where Beas is at right now
Mentally, Michael is not at a good place. The pout in Milwaukee and the long bench time against the Heat tells me he is having a hard time processing right now.
I noticed that John Lucas, one time mentor for Michael, is working with Renaldo Sydney right now at Mississippi State. Not sure what Norm Nixon is doing. But Michael is destroying team chemistry right now.
Where there is a D-Williams, there is a way
I think this has a lot of truth to it...
Beas is playing like crap. RA is not going to put up with any more childish crap. Either he finds strength through this adversity or he is out of town.
Shooting? What shooting woes?
Waaay too early and small a sample, but Ricky is 62% from the field and 67% from 3-point line.
Where there is a D-Williams, there is a way
Thoughts from Target Center
It was great to see so many fans getting loud for the Wolves and not the Heat. Way too many times over the last few years it has been the other way around when a superstar is in town.
Even though he is a major league d-bag, Lebron is still amazing to watch on the court. Way too many times where you just shake your head and say that there was no way to defend that.
I am puzzled why Adelman didn’t do a defense for offense switch and have Randolph out there for the last Heat possesion. If anyone can get off the ground to defend against that inbounds pass it would have been AR.
Everyone needs more practice and games with Rubio. Too many bullet passes that became turnovers because the receiver couldn’t handle the ball. Still is amazing to watch how he can disect a defense.
I can hardly wait for Love’s shooting form to come back. It looks like he is living off of putbacks and free throws right now. Once his shot comes back after the layoff he will really be a force of nature.
Actually I am looking forward to the 3 point shooting from everyone to come back to the form of last year. AT has been awful from 3 and he is at least a mid 30% guy.
Turnovers were a killer, but that is the way that Miami plays D (and the Bucks as well). Hopefully we can see more low TO games like the Thunder game.
by hoopsfan1 on Dec 31, 2011 1:46 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Good points, all
Kevin Love’s comment during preseason that everyone on the team is learning to get their hands up to protect their face is becoming evident. No sleeping with Ricky on the court dishing dimes.
Where there is a D-Williams, there is a way
And forgot to add
that Lebron bowling AT over will easily be the worst call in the NBA this year.I am not sure where it says in the rule book that you can just put your shoulder down and blast through a player, but it seems that the Wolves were called for much less many times when they were on the offensive end.
Easily the worst call in the NBA this year...
that gets reenacted night in and night out at an NBA city near you.
Spanish dialects
Much has been made of the “Spanish” language speakers, Ricky and JJ. About how they might speak Spanish on the court, etc. But not all Spanish is equal:
Spanish Dialects -
Ricky, Castilian
This term applies to the official Spanish language, spoken in northern and central Spain.
JJ, Caribbean Spanish
This dialect is spoken in Cuba, Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic, and along the East coast of Mexico and Central America; it is characterized by elided middle consonants and omitted final consonants, as well as an aspirated ‘r’ that is pronounced like the Portuguese ‘x.’
===
As I recall my college Spanish courses, Castilian speaking Spaniards generally consider their language the “official” version.
Where there is a D-Williams, there is a way
Probably a lot like someone from Minnesota trying to understand someone from New Orleans
After a few “whats” you either understood or smile and give up.
every spaniard considers
castillian to be the official version, because it’s from where every other dialect originated (castilla being the first unifying reign). there are lots of different accents, dialects and languages deriving from castillian even withing the spanish borders. rubio did grow up speaking one of the most famous ones, catalonian.
Ricky also speaks Catalan
He tweets in English, Spanish, and Catalan.
Reduce turnovers, reduce personal fouls, shoot better, win.
You forget that Rubio's native dialect is likely Catalan.
Castilian would be his second language.
I once talked to a Mexican girl at my work about this
Not regarding Rubio, but I was curious about the dialetcs, and she said and type of fluent Spanish speaker can understand another. The differences are all small, like regional slang or accents.
spanish is different in every country.
Im from Puerto Rico and even if we have the same words than lets say dominicans, the meaning its a lot different, But that doesnt mean that they are hard to understand. I bealive that ricky and jj will have no problem to communicate,
Speaking of magical unicorns...
…Marshon Brooks is rocking a PER of 28.2 with .214 ws/48.
But he is a ball stopper
He would look great on this team though.
Was Friday the Year End "Blow Out" Sale for Knee Surgeries?
Adrian Peterson, Trevor Mbakwe, and Malcolm Lee all had surgery yesterday.
Must have been a year-end special at the surgery room.
Where there is a D-Williams, there is a way
Assembly line surgery
Thank you Ransom Olds and Henry Ford.
Reduce turnovers, reduce personal fouls, shoot better, win.
It is too bad Dallas beat Toronto last night.
I was hoping to keep them winless
Follow me on Twitter @timallenonline
I think it's good for us...
they’d be extra feisty if they were winless.
I hope JJ is back to take on his old team.
I agree
New year New wolves + hopefully Rubio starts = Win for t-wolves
The champs turned chumps will be soft hopefully
I'm avid basketball fan and Manager of a little known team (tallandthicks) on little known internet based basketball manager site charazay. trust me I love this game
by tallandthicks on Jan 1, 2012 12:22 AM CST up reply actions
And from a non-unicorn angle..
..Why on earth did we stop launching 3’s yesterday?
That’s where we made the comeback. Then once we got back in the game they stopped heaving em up. Was not happy about that.
From the mouth of Wade:
“I’m glad we played them early because later they’re going to be trouble. So I think Timberwolves fans will have something to cheer about for a while here.”
Happy New Year, Jones!
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Dec 31, 2011 7:12 PM CST up reply actions
The same could be proposed concerning your maternal parent.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Dec 31, 2011 8:19 PM CST up reply actions
I certainly am a dumbass.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Dec 31, 2011 9:26 PM CST up reply actions
Happy new year aybody
Mayn im gittin stupid thowed righ now so shoutiuts ta my CH fam and mos ub all ta Dat boi ricky aka de spanish unicorn Aka God aka mayn ricky i love you homie!!
Mayn my new years resolution iz ta get MO thowed and watch dem wolves im startin ta git nervous biout klove you gotta stay playa paycvvee
MAYN HOL UP!
by MAYNHOLUP on Dec 31, 2011 9:54 PM CST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Happy New Years, MAYN!
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Dec 31, 2011 10:11 PM CST up reply actions
Wuss poppin jason
Burn wun my dude
MAYN HOL UP!
by MAYNHOLUP on Dec 31, 2011 11:09 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
just gotta say...
that i’m kinda happy that Kahn is running this team and not you stop N pop.
i agree that we should get a wing, but i dont think that we should just do WHATEVER to get some sort of decent wing. I disagree with your take that we should ever sacrifice anything to get slightly better now.
the goal should always be to win a championship, whether it’s this year, or sometime in the future. We’re not one player away from being in a position to win a championship this year… end of story.
we need to convince K Love that we are serious about winning a championship so that he stays, and I don’t think that looking for a couple more wins this year is going to convince K Love of that. We need to include him in the discussions about what it’s going to take to win a championship, and then stick to whatever plan we concoct to achieve that. I don’t think selling the #2 pick in the draft for a short-term solution on the wing is going to be easy to sell the KLove, and I think you’d agree, Stop n Pop, that our #1 goal should be keeping K Love.
never thought i’d say happy and kahn running the team in the same sentence lol
by nharabadger on Dec 31, 2011 10:32 PM CST up reply actions
I just have to say
that Kevin Love has shown no proclivity toward success as a boardroom facilitator.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Dec 31, 2011 10:43 PM CST up reply actions
Happy New Year's, everyone.
I took myself out to dinner at Rojo and a showing of Girl With the Dragon Tattoo.
For anyone thinking about seeing it, I thought the movie was fantastic. I have not read the book, and went in knowing pretty much nothing about it, but I enjoyed it more than I’ve enjoyed a theater movie in a long time.
Follow me on Twitter @timallenonline
no
just a terrible timid movie but oh well I can see it’s appeal but it’s weird and not like the book which is better. I hope I like the Tintin movie I haven’t seen it yet to be honest I never like Tintin as much until Tintin in Tibet so if it isn’t close I won’t hate as much. But GWDT didn’t wow me just annoyed me
I'm avid basketball fan and Manager of a little known team (tallandthicks) on little known internet based basketball manager site charazay. trust me I love this game
by tallandthicks on Jan 1, 2012 2:58 AM CST up reply actions
Tintin is excellect!!!!!!!!!
I saw it with my brothers who also all read the books. They didn’t stay true to the plot but I still thought it was amazing!
Pek apologist
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Jan 1, 2012 10:59 AM CST up reply actions
i grew up on tintin, the muppets, star wars, and indiana jones
2 of those franchises have been murdered, 1 saved (for the moment), and…..i am still debating whether or not to see tintin.
It's worth it
Sadly not as politically incorrect as the original :) They change the plot but it is well worth it.
Pek apologist
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Jan 1, 2012 12:52 PM CST up reply actions
Morroco for a bit
but no hunting elephants for just the ivory or visiting Big Chief Keen Eyed Mole
Pek apologist
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Jan 1, 2012 1:48 PM CST up reply actions
It is a combination of Crab with the Golden Claw and Secret of the Unicorn
Everyone’s favorite opera singer plays a role as well
Pek apologist
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Jan 1, 2012 1:49 PM CST up reply actions
How does having bad sequels ruin a franchise for you?
I don’t love INDY 4, but by no means does it tarnish how much I enjoy Raiders.
I actually like Revenge of the Sith a lot as a Star Wars movie (Anakin is a burtally acted character though), but I don’t really view the prequels as “franchise diminishing”
I mean, when you take a step back, those original three star wars movies are kinda goofy and sloppily acted/written in certain parts as well….sure there is no Jar Jar….but the Ewoks are a pretty embarrassing race of creatures. The Nostalgia is so damn high, it’d be almost impossible to make a universally approved Star Wars movie today….But I think for the most part the prequel’s stay pretty true to the tone of the originals….I obviously don’t like them as much, but I know plenty of kids under 18 that do….and that’s really what it’s all about, to them it’s their Star Wars trilogy.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
think of something you loved whrn you were five
now reengage that thing 20 or 30 years later as a thing designed to prey on your nostalgia long enough to pry money from your wallet. that is time travel child abuse %
Have seen two recent movies.
The remake of “Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy” is watchable, full of solid character actors, but lacks some punch because of how they chose to do the timeline. The climactic moments of the movie don’t feel that way. Gary Oldman does a (creditable, understandable) Alex Guinness impersonation throughout, right down to the glasses.
“War Horse” is trying to be a fable about a boy and his horse and a cautionary story about war. It’s like Black Beauty crossed with Saving Private Ryan, and it got Spielbergesque in a handful of set-up/payoff ways. Still, if you’re going to see it, it’s definitely worth trying a theater for the cinematic sprawl of the WWI setting and that era, backlit and softly glowing as they are. Big, big movie. I’d rather have seen the puppets on stage.
"Opinion ...a confession."
MI-4 is king
the entire sequence involving the giant building is one of the more well-constructed segments in a spy movie I have seen.
Dragon Tattoo I thought was really good as well
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I thought MI4 was ridiculous.
The scene where he drives the car off of the top level of the parking garage and walks away from the car with only a slight limp because the air bag went off…I mean, come on.
Follow me on Twitter @timallenonline
Ha, but that's just the kind of movie it is.
They have well-established parameters that Tom Cruise is more Terminator than John McClain.
I’m more than fine with the ridiculous happening if it is set up well, and I believe the Mission Impossible movies in general do a good job of establishing the “reality” they live in, where MI6 Agents are largely invincible, unless they are fighting another MI6 Agent.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Tim, Tim, Tim
You really need to learn to ignore the bad parts and just go along for the ride.
Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.
If you think that part was too fakey
you’re going to HATE The Muppet Movie.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
I'm curious why they remade this?
The original version is only a few years old and excellently done. I can only imagine that they wanted it to be in English rather than subtitled?
If that was the reason, I'm glad. I don't like watching subtitled movies.
Follow me on Twitter @timallenonline
All 3 of the Swedish films were great.
I was annoyed by the English (re-)making, even if David Fincher is the director. The kind of films they are make the subtitles extra-easy, too. (Sometimes I have a hard time if there’s a lot of fast-talking ;)… not the case in such dark, atmospheric, movies filled with stoic Swedes :).
I read an interesting article contrasting the marketing b/w the 2 movies, and how the Swedish films seem to depict a more empowered Lisbeth, while the English version makes her more of a victim and sexual object. I forget where the article was and cannot seem to find the link. I won’t pass judgement until I see the English version, of course.
Totally agree on viable 2
Still not sure why they didn’t sign JCrawford to MLE and/or dump Pek/Eillington for a bag of chips. Seemed like in reading the rumors the Adelman duo wanted to do it, but couldn’t sell it internally. Bad decision. They’d probably be 2-1 in the first several games with a guy like Crawford getting 30 minutes on the wing…
silly
Crawford isn’t that much of a starting player the reason he works for portland is he comes off the bench for Matthews. he is an upgrade on Roy but not by much
I'm avid basketball fan and Manager of a little known team (tallandthicks) on little known internet based basketball manager site charazay. trust me I love this game
by tallandthicks on Jan 1, 2012 3:00 AM CST up reply actions
Really silly
JCrawford Annual Salary: $5MM/2yrs
JCraword PER: 15.4
JCrawford: Veteran 2/combo guard in need
vs
Wes Annual Salary: $4MM/2yrs
Wes PER: 3.4
Wes: Immature old 2nd year guy, undersized 3/4 or handleless 2/3
Pek + WEllington Annual Salary: $5.7MM/2+yrs
Pek + WEllington PER: 12.4 (in combined 31 minutes with 5 DNPs)
Pek + WEllington: Not veterans with redundant “skills” on rest of team
Going after a $5-8M/year 2 guard vet and dumping young guys in roster spots 10-15 for the same amount of salary should have been an easy “pruning” exercise.
by PoohRichardson on Jan 1, 2012 3:25 AM CST up reply actions
it's not about wes
infact wes won’t be start soon enough I am glad to move wes but Crawford was good move for portland but a bad move for us. He is a nice 6th man /3rd guard but still not a start look at Iggy and say you would rather have martin, Crawford (I admit is better than martin) than Iggy
I'm avid basketball fan and Manager of a little known team (tallandthicks) on little known internet based basketball manager site charazay. trust me I love this game
by tallandthicks on Jan 1, 2012 3:39 AM CST up reply actions
Trans-actability
Iggy and Martin weren’t available as UFA’s and double the price in cap/salary, not to mention trade assets. Crawford said he’d come her for right price and I’d rather have a 30-min/game Crawford (starter or backup doesn’t matter) @ same cost of Pek + Ellington (trade them for future 2nd rounders ala Lazar) and move Wes into 15-min role as 3-pt specialist wing or move him too.
by PoohRichardson on Jan 1, 2012 4:09 AM CST up reply actions
Closing it out
Seems like they have the talent to put a good team on their heels (Heat) and make a comeback.
But closing it out is another thing.
Raise your hand if you wanted Love to take that last shot from 3 point land to win.
Yeah, me too. Need one of those breakthrough moments ala Marbury v. Bulls of years ago.
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I would like Love getting that shot (or Beas)
BUT
I actually really liked how they closed out that game, at least compaired to last year. I thought they got big stops when necessary, and stayed agressive on offense.
Difference from last year...
We would have had a stupid turnover and not even had a chance at the end…That would happen after collapsing late and not coming back late.
Still a L.
Breakthrough soon
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by ChicagoViking on Jan 1, 2012 1:20 PM CST up reply actions
Wrong board, but..
Why isn’t Joe Webb the Vikes QB of the future? All he does is score points and move the ball.
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He's been playing well.
Just don’t get too high on late season performances by mailed in teams like the Bears and Redskins….It happens every year where backups will look great at the end of the season.
Not saying he won’t be our starter next year….but it’s easy to fall in love with these kind of performances.
This time last year I was barraged with people telling me Childress was the problem and you just get Frazier and everything will be okay….that didn’t seem to work out. I never loved Chilly but he had 1 losing season as a head coach and had a lot of players either not show up for 2009 or got injured, I was always skeptical that he was the overall problem. I try to not get too high or too low, Ponder has gotten the crap beaten out of him the last handful of weeks, which unfortunately is kind of how rookie QB’s lose their confidence (David Carr, Joey Harrington etc) so the future might be bleak on Ponder…..but the guy has NFL ability.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Webb makes smart plays, makes things happen
That’s a good combo. Don’t think Ponder is bad at all. His confidence looks totally shaken from first few games, though. Hope it doesn’t dog him…
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by ChicagoViking on Jan 1, 2012 1:39 PM CST up reply actions
I like Webb
But there is a reason he was a 6th round pick.
Sometimes there are sleepers, absolutely…..but in the grand scheme of draft picks most 6th round picks don’t become starter level QB’s
And he also has a year exp on Ponder too
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Tom Brady = 6th round pick, too
Yeah, I know. I’m not drinking that much Kool-Aid or other on Webb… Just one exception to the 6th rounder rule…
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by ChicagoViking on Jan 1, 2012 2:03 PM CST up reply actions
And Cade McNown was the 12th overall pick, and Akili Smith was 3rd, and Ryan Leaf was 2nd and Jamarcus Russell was 1st.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 1, 2012 2:33 PM CST up reply actions
First Round picks
Eli Manning
Phil Rivers
Roethlisburger
Sanchez
Ryan
Flacco
Newton
Brees (first pick of second round)
Cutler
Rodgers
Grossman (I know he sucks, but he is still a starting QB)
Palmer
Alex Smith
Michael Vick
Tebow
Josh Freeman
I didn’t even include some of the guys who are rookies this year who are starting like Dalton, Ponder and Gabbert.
But over half of the starting QB’s are round 1 picks and many others are 2nd round picks (Schaub, Jackson). Most of the QB’s listed here comprise the top 10 sans Brady….Busts happen in the first round and they happen often…but you’re best bet for a franchise QB is going to be early in the draft.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I was just saying draft position shouldn't matter when it comes to Ponder and Webb.
Course, I never liked the Ponder pick.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 1, 2012 4:21 PM CST up reply actions
More Active?
Canishoopus on a non game-day or the Vikings blog Daily Norseman during a game??
NBA is life. NFL is life like.
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There's more
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Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
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