Soooooooo...
First of all, the elephant in the room. This was only the 7th game this season where both teams shot .381 or below. 4 of these contests involve the Bucks. 2 of these contests involve the Wolves and the Bucks.
Second, Kevin Love is good at basketball. Against the Mighty Men from Milwaukee, the All Star scored 20 points on 10 shots while grabbing 17 rebounds, dishing out 6 assists, and turning the ball over a grand total of 0 times.
Non Kevin Love Wolves shot roughly 35% from the floor. They turned it over at an alarming clip, especially in the opening minutes of the game. The starting backcourt of Luke Ridnour and Wes Johnson were especially brickish, going 10-28 from the floor. Johnson is now shooting an astounding 30% from the floor in February. On the positive side of things, Wes did get to the line 4 times against the Bucks, marking only the 6th time he has had 4 or more FTAs in a game this season. Baby steps, people, baby steps. Hey, at least he looked looser and better out there.
Fun fact: Wes Johnson has made 4 free throws only 1 time in his young NBA career. November 2nd against the Heat.
Other positives: Darko played closer to 20 mpg than he did to his season average. If Randolph is going to get worked into the lineup, and if the team wants to prepare the rest of its roster for what he may bring to the table, Anthony Tolliver needs some minutes at the 5. He needs minutes there for other reasons, but...well, we'll leave that one alone.
I'm trying to figure out a way to explain the other elephant in the room--the big, bright pink one: Rambis' coaching. I'll leave that one open to the comment section. What did you think of the last play? Do you think Rambis' basketball mind can comprehend or process the island of misfit toys that Kahn is putting together? I mentioned it in the comment section of the trade wrap post, but I thought it deserves a 2nd mention here: If Kahn can put the tail end of Jefferson's cap space to good use on an honest-to-Pete average NBA guard while axing the clearly-in-over-his-head Rambis, he will deserve mountains of credit. O.J. Mayo would be more than acceptable at this point. Of course, there's an opposite side to that notion but I'll save it for a post after the trade deadline.
Well folks, I'm not sure what else I can say about that game. It was ugly, brutal, disgusting, and kind of boring. Thankfully, I was able to pass the time with my new Fender Mustang amp, a USB connection, Garage Band, and my Airline H44. (Yes, it sounds like a horn section.) Admittedly, I was a bit in and out on this one but it was worth it because I totally killed a .wav play-along with Barracuda. Killed it.
Anywho, please feel free to leave your thoughts in the comment section.
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before the game started i wished we played the bucks more
proximity rivals like the vikings/packers. i always thought the nba was doing us a disservice by having the teams in 2 different conferences.
however, this season im ok with it.
I completely agree. Another league that makes rivalries more important is the NHL.
I’m pretty sure that in the NHL, teams that are considered “rivals” play up to 6 times a year. I think that would work in the NBA. The current scheduling system in the NBA makes divisions irrelevant.
Two Serbians One Ball.
Pek looked serviceable--better than Darko.
He took position in the post, pushed through Bogut, and forced some hard buckets. I want Darko to succeed here, but I’m really digging Pek’s game. If he keeps progressing like this he can be special.
You are a little soul carrying a corpse. --Epictetus
I'm not convinced that
Pek doesn’t already have Darko’s skill. He shows better in the post, he moves better offensively, and he’s already figuring out US defensive rules. Plus, he’s wearing Hrbek’s number.
You are a little soul carrying a corpse. --Epictetus
by Cynical Jason on Feb 22, 2011 10:58 PM CST up reply actions
Darko got owned tonight.
Bogut knew that he wanted to go to his left hand, so he sat on it, and Darko couldn’t even attempt a low percentage shot. The end result was Darko holding the ball, burning through shot clock, then passing the ball back out, if it hadn’t already been stolen from him.
If it wasn't for Jordan Farmar and that guy Kevin Love, I would've killed somebody!
by John Doe on Feb 23, 2011 12:16 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Surprisingly few...
opponents have sat on Darko’s left hand, like that. Al Jefferson was one of the few I noticed who did it, and it completely erases Darko’s (already limited) offensive game.
I guess you guys really missed Koufos out there tonight.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
Definetly
That’s what I was thinking the whole game
“They’re not gonna win with out Koufmask”
The cock is our friend------------if the minute hand sweeps faster.-BaylorWest
by thewild_viking_twins on Feb 22, 2011 10:33 PM CST up reply actions
I am guessing there were nights
when KostKo would forget to take the mask off after the game was over, including while he showered and changed back into street clothes. Then, Wayne Ellington or Beasley would ask him if he wanted to join them for a night out on the town, and Kostko’s elation over FINALLY being asked to come along with the guys would prevent him from wondering, “Why tonight, of all nights?”, or noticing the smirks from teammates and bewildered stares from passers-by.
Only three more shopping days until the Trading Deadline!
Wes Johhson
How come you continually point out the negatives in Wes Johnson’s game? He filled up the stat line. 14 pts, 8 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 blk, and 1 steal. Your guy Cousins was 3 for 14 8 pts 7 rebounds, 4 assists with two turnovers. I guess the best part about Cousins he didn’t get in a fight with his own teammates.
Did you brush over his total stat line?
Rather than focus on just the month of Febuary. The play in other months too.
by rickyrubio10 on Feb 22, 2011 10:38 PM CST up reply actions
Yes..
….they do. .396 in January. It’s been a while for the guy.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
There are other aspects of the game besides fg %.
Look up cousins stats. His shooting % sucks too. He turns the ball over at a higher. You like to hide behind 1 stat. Look at the whole picture. Your minds made up no matter what anyway. Wes had no fights in the month of Febuary.
by rickyrubio10 on Feb 22, 2011 10:44 PM CST up reply actions
A real feather in his cap, indeed
He’s tied for the league lead in “fewest fights in the month of February.” Clearly our use of the 4th pick on him is now justified.
by WolvesFan03 on Feb 22, 2011 10:46 PM CST up reply actions
We are only 2/3 the way through his rookie season.
It will take 2 to 3 years to determine who the better pick was. I’m not saying Wes was the better pick. I’m just saying let it play out before making judgement on the 4th pick. Cousins with all his problems/fights draws question on him being the 4th pick, howeve, I wouldn’t give up on him yet either.
by rickyrubio10 on Feb 22, 2011 10:51 PM CST up reply actions
I had no idea I wrote a recap about Cousins
But since it appears to be a hot topic, people can go and compare here.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
Your forgetting some stats.
Stats like fines, suspensions, fights, and attitude.
by rickyrubio10 on Feb 22, 2011 10:55 PM CST up reply actions
And crazy.
You are a little soul carrying a corpse. --Epictetus
by Cynical Jason on Feb 22, 2011 10:59 PM CST up reply actions
OK you got me there.
Disregard attitude as a stat. Stats don’t tell the whole truth about a player. Cancer in the locker room is not a good thing. Either is work ethic and being over weight.
by rickyrubio10 on Feb 22, 2011 10:59 PM CST up reply actions
Color me crazy...
But I’m exceptionally frustrated with our complacency. We’re losing. Our locker room is a losing locker room. Very few of the players are showing frustration on the court (Love may be a mild exception). I was excited early in the year when Beas yelled “GET BACK ON D” along with an expletive at Pek early in the year. If Wes Johnson punched out Jonny Flynn on the court when he made an easy play extremely difficult I would cheer. Unfortunately he hasn’t and he won’t. He’s just another mild mannered guy who will have no effect in snapping this organization out of the 6 year funk we’re in.
by BeasleBong on Feb 22, 2011 11:10 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Wes v. Cousins
is so overrated….In the end, I could see both guys being completely forgotten ten years from now. Wes, because he never turned into anything more than a spot up shooter on losing teams, Cousins because he eats his way out of the league or just pissed off too many people…
So Wes puts up below average numbers across the board?
Good to know ;)
NBA averages for the 2 guard:
http://www.hoopdata.com/advancedstats.aspx?team=%&type=pg&posi=SG&yr=2011&gp=0&mins=0
PER: 12.9
USG: 19.3
TS%: 54.2
TRR: 7.0
TOR: 12.1
FTR: 25.5
Johnson
PER: 9.85
USG: 16.32
TS%: 50.4
TRR: 5.9
TOR: 13.08
FTR: 13
Granted, he’s listed as a SF at HoopData (averages here), but he seems to be penciled in at the 2 with the Wolves.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
Keep bringing stats.
Your forgetting other factors. Crazy, lazy, overweight, fines, suspensions, fights, and cancerous locker rooms.
by rickyrubio10 on Feb 22, 2011 11:05 PM CST up reply actions
You asked me to, remember...
…it’s just a few inches above this comment. Close in both space and time. You asked me to think about the big picture with Wes. I did. I compared him to his peers at the position. I get that you’d like to make a comparison to DMC here but I’m not sure what I did in this game wrap to open up the DMC box.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
You mentioned Wes.
I think its like Candyman. You say his name three times and bad things are bound to happen.
Everything in the computer need my face on it. Mega Gigabytes, son!
I think so
And, as a side note, that movie horrified me when I first watched it.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
Your still not looking at the big picture. I'm talking intangibles.
But everyone of your posts you basically state Wes sucks. You’ve made your opinion very clear the wolves should have picked Cousins over Wes and Curry over Flynn. Rambis and Kahn suck. Their all the same. You state Wes sucks I state Cousins is crazy. Wes has good game you still make fun him. Why be a Wes hater?
by rickyrubio10 on Feb 22, 2011 11:15 PM CST up reply actions
I think the problem here...
..is that I’m not looking at your big picture. I am afraid I am unable to square that circle. As much as I’d like to have that type of mind control over other people, I’m not sure I’m responsible for your detour/hang up on the matter of Wes v. DMC, at the very least not in this post.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
Cousins gets in a fight with his own teammates and coaching staff.
But I’m squaring a circle. WOW! Don’t bring up the same gibberish in everyone of your posts then. Your posts are the same. Should have drafted Cousins. Should have dafted curry. Kahn’s an idiot. Rambis is idiot. We should have listen to you all draft picks and trades. We’d been in the finals.
by rickyrubio10 on Feb 22, 2011 11:25 PM CST up reply actions
You are aware of the fact that you're the one who brought Cousins up in this post, right?
I kind of wish I was saying the things you are assigning to me in this post, but I’m not. I’m sorry I left the seat up tonight but that doesn’t give you carte blanche to yell at me about how I’m not a good listener.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Feb 22, 2011 11:29 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Well . . .
you’re getting lectured about arguments that aren’t in your post by someone whose nomenclature references a player who isn’t on the team.
I’d just call it “meta” and move on.
You are a little soul carrying a corpse. --Epictetus
by Cynical Jason on Feb 23, 2011 7:44 AM CST up reply actions
Not in the post.
Read his posts they are all the same. Nice way to add to to the post by being a jerk. He states Wes sucks in all his posts. If you read many many of his previous posts he states we should have drafted curry and cousins. Kahn and rambis are idiots. I’m so glad I could explain this to you. Way to contribute.
by rickyrubio10 on Feb 23, 2011 7:58 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
But Wes does suck at the moment
He might not in a year or two and we aren’t giving up on him as a whole, yet.
Is it wrong to say it get dark at night? Or Flynn turns over the ball at a high rate?
I believe pointing out Wes Johnson’s bad numbers in Feb is completely fair game. If Luke keeps struggling expect his numbers to be next.
The Wes terrorists are like Fox News
Here is the issue with the Wes Terrorists, we never here anything good about Wes from them.
If you want to point out the areas he is not playing very well in. Go for it, but when he has a game like he did last night where he played very well, I believe is +/- was like +3 in a 6 point loss, he played solid defense, rounded the ball well, did a lot of little things, and scored some points….all we here from the Wes Terrorists is how bad he is.
I like Wes enough, I’m not in love with the guy, I basically feel the same way about him as I do Khan I’d give both like B- or a B in terms of my overall approval of them, but whenever I hear the Wes terrorists tell me how awful he is and 50 games into his career he already will never amount to anything, I want to defend the guy because I don’t deem him to be that bad.
My big issue with Wes is the fact that on a game by game basis he is wildly inconsistent, one game he looks like a guy who can start on a playoff team, and then he’ll have 2 games where he looks like he shouldn’t be in the NBA and then a game like last night where he looks like he’ll be a solid player.
Are you suggesting that I'm a terrorist because I pointed out that as a rookie Wes does indeed suck?
And then after going wildly over the top you compare the group you’ve wrongly labeled as terrorists to Fox News.
I appreciate your loyalty to our rookie. You probably even noticed that I said:
“He might not in a year or two and we aren’t giving up on him as a whole, yet.”
But the name calling is basically out of the Fox News playbook. I couldn’t care less in most cases, but when someone links me to terrorism and Fox News in the same sentence I feel the need to respond once the laughter dies down enough so I can type.
I was only responding to your post
If you believe my post pertains to you then you probably fit into that description
If you are willing to acknowledge that Wes has both good and bad games then I wouldn’t classify you as a Wes terrorist. If you blanket pigeonhole him as a guy who 50 games into his career is already a lost cause…then yeah you probably fit into my description.
Based on your previous post I wasn’t referring to you as a “Wes Terrorist” though if that helps you feel better about yourself.
And I wouldn’t even classify myself as a Wes lover either. I think he’s alright, I’m interested to see how he improves. I’d like to see him with a real PG and a coach, but I’m not ready to say he’s done.
It happens every year there are a handful of rookies that look lost in their first year or so and end up looking like legitimate players in year 3
This is hilarious.
I was only responding to your post
If you believe my post pertains to you then you probably fit into that description
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
And I am joking too
I am loosely using the word “terrorist” it’s kind of a joke. Just in case that wasn’t clear. I don’t believe there is a Militia of posters who are very well trained and brainwashed to do one thing and one thing only: break Wes Johnson.
Yes.
There is nothing like that. At all.
Now, if you will kindly provide your home address and times you are usually there, we can verify for you that nothing like that exists.
Only three more shopping days until the Trading Deadline!
How will that help you break wes?
I'm Trill, I'm running w/ the WOLVES
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Feb 23, 2011 9:30 AM CST up reply actions
you should try this loose talk
at the airport! I guaranteed good time for all!
I haven't written an insightful post in years.
They gave me an extra frisk
When I forgot to take my shaving cream out of the bag.
I'm Trill, I'm running w/ the WOLVES
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Feb 23, 2011 9:41 AM CST up reply actions
A great man once said
there is a time to live and a time to die and a time to do a bunch of other things I don’t really remember the quote….but needless to say I’m under the impression a chat board about the Minnesota Timberwolves is a time to be a little silly (how else will we keep sane?)
You find your great man
and the rest of the quote in Ecclesiastes 3.
by Tangerine dream on Feb 23, 2011 2:28 PM CST up reply actions
The point is
He points out Wes’s bad numbers when he has a bad game, but when Wes has a good game he shifts the focus to cumulative numbers so he can downplay the positive and focus on the negative. Seems lime that’s the complaint. All Wes, all the time. All negative.
by Tangerine dream on Feb 23, 2011 12:33 PM CST up reply actions
The cumulative numbers...
….being bad, right? Here’s what I’d like people to focus on with Wes (aside from the above comparison to his peers):
http://www.hoopdata.com/boxscore.aspx?id=310222015
Scroll way down and look for the PC/PU stat. Points created per possessions used. Last night, in Wes’ “good” game, he was 5th on the team (0.81) behind Beasley, Tolliver, Pek, and Love (1.46). He was 3-4 at the rim and 1-11 from everywhere else.
The Wolves absolutely, 100% cannot have that type of player at the 2/3. Did he rebound well in last night’s game? Sure. He even had a bigger usage rate than normal. However, he wasn’t able to put the ball in the bucket in an efficient manner and he was still subpar compared to the average production of NBA 2 guards in TS and FTR. The only way he had a good game is if you put a “for Wes” at the end of “good game”.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
Again you'll never get me to say he's a 2.
Not at this point. And unfortunately I think the FO still perceives that way.
More confusing, I think he perceives himself that way.
Had a discussion with him ( I know, load your weapons) last summer post draft/pre Beasley. I joked that all the needed to do was use the cap space to get Melo. He said that would be so great then added “then I can move back to my natural position”. It suprised me because all I saw from him in college was natural 3.
Anyway back to shooting eff. That’s really the last concern I have with Wes. Those numbers will get there.
I’m more concerned with the all around play, including rebounding and getting to the line. And why I thought last night was very encouraging.
by Tangerine dream on Feb 23, 2011 1:04 PM CST up reply actions
I don't have to get you to say he's a 2 when Kahn is penciling him in at the spot
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
I agree
And disagree with FO valuation
by Tangerine dream on Feb 23, 2011 1:23 PM CST up reply actions
I pretty much add to everything
by being a jerk. Wes does suck. We should have drafted Curry (I’m not as sure about Cousins). Kahn and Rambis are idiots.
I’m sorry you can’t see any of that. Your contributions are mitigated by your blindness.
You are a little soul carrying a corpse. --Epictetus
by Cynical Jason on Feb 23, 2011 8:26 AM CST up reply actions
I'm half and half with you
I’ll take Curry and Wes I’ll fire Rambis, and keep Khan (for now)
Is there anyone else people wish the Wolves would have drafted?
The debate gets old, but for example, just because there is no way I would touch DMC and have heard many "Insider’ types say the exact same thing. Doesn’t mean I am happy with Wes ya know?
Like how about someone say Greg Monroe? I don’t know how good he will be but it seems like he’s having a marginally successful rookie campaign and could parlay that into potentially being a very quality starting center in the NBA.
I will hear that argument any day.
I think my ultimate choice however would have been to trade down to like Indian or some team around 8-12 for an unprotected pick in 2012 and then draft either Paul George or Xavier Henry
I think the idea
is that we should have drafted Demarcus because he was the best player at the slot. If we wanted someone else (i.e. Greg Monroe or Wes) we should have traded Cousins for him and another asset. Even Kevin McHale understood this simple concept of value in the top ten. He had the wrong idea of liking Foye more than Brandon Roy, but at least he made an attempt to hold Roy hostage from Portland to squeeze a couple bucks out of them. If we really liked Flynn we should have taken Curry, waited for Flynn to go to New York or Milwaukee, then offered Curry for Flynn and ____. That is my problem. The fact that Flynn and (to this point) Wes haven’t worked out is just icing on the cake.
I think those type of things
are done beforehand, like Luke Babbit or Ty Lawson. To just go shooting in the dark may backfire on you, and you get stuck with the best possible. It could be good (Lawson) and it could be bad (Babbit).
Those things are done beforehand...
With David Kahn in the past 2 years. Our team was built (and by our team… I mean Kevin Love) on a trade done at midnight after the draft where we took the best player and traded for a player we coveted. If we got “stuck” with Mayo, we would have been alright with that at the time.
Besides, it could still have been done beforehand. All Kahn needs to do is say something like “We want Demarcus Cousins at 4” or “We don’t know” leading up to the draft. The phones will ring. Instead, he told the truth the entire process. He said we don’t want Cousins, and we were taking Wes. Suddenly, the 5th pick becomes more valuable than the 4th, unless Kahn is an evil genius (reputation states he’s not). It was approached the wrong way from the lottery until the draft.
And it’s a minor detail, but I was mostly talking about top 10 picks. The value between the players after the top 7 or 8 is muddied and it’d be too risky for my taste to say “James Anderson is the best player at 16 (my true belief at the time), let’s take him and trade for the next guy and pick up 100,000 bucks” when he’s really not going to go until 20. The value difference wouldn’t net us an extra asset that would be worth the risk.
That's a fair point
there is something to be said about just taking the guy you like. I mean Wes was gonna go in the top 7, so if we traded down to 8 he may have been gone though.
But yeah I can understand that argument
You really are a broken record, SnP.
You have become as consistent as Chuck D has been about his dislike of Love until lately. It’s a pain in the butt to have to read a poster always pounding the same old meat, but I can treat it like a spice. You however, are the headliner on this site, the main course, and that makes it different. The site name needs to be changed to Complainis Hoopus, and your screen name Pizz n Moan.
You forgot your %
It’s a pain in the butt to have to read a poster always pounding the same old meat, but I can treat it like a spice.
that’s cute.
Sorry, I have no actual basketball related comment to offer today but this whole debate is like watching the special olympics some of you seriously need a logic or debate class.
I'm sure any person that has taken a debate class
has never played basketball…
I haven't written an insightful post in years.
What about Trent Tucker
“If you want to win a basketball game you have to score some points.”
Ok, maybe just a few days of logic class, but that has to count for something
by midlife crisis on Feb 23, 2011 9:46 AM CST up reply actions
Oh please, educate us, Mr zebano logic..
And I do have to read because I don’t want to miss anything. If you think this debate is somehow special, you are so right. And there have been many, many more, similarly Olympian. There is much logic presented here, if you can make sense of it. %
I think the issue is
That in a game where Wes put up some good numbers and did some things people have been hoping for, i.e., getting to the line and grabbing 8 rebounds you find a way to spin it negatively. In fairness, it just gets tiresome to read. The guy had a good game. He makes 1 more three he has a great stat line. We don’t have to rehash his yearly stats every time he does something well.
Hopefully the Rookie game got some of his confidence back. I thought last night was pretty encouraging.
I’ve been saying he can rebound. Pretty encouraging to see 8. I don’t give two craps about shooting %. we know he can/will shoot.
by Tangerine dream on Feb 23, 2011 6:35 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh and I missed the write up on Telfair
How has he shot lately?
by Tangerine dream on Feb 23, 2011 6:42 AM CST up reply actions
Are you equating my homerish...
…like of a certain bench player who can’t shoot for a lick to the defense (as in stick up for) of a supposedly smooth shooting 4th pick of last year’s draft? Whatever works.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
No, not equating anything
And yes Wes should be held to a higher long term standard than Telfair. I appreciate your loyalty but just a point that at times you report unevenly, and just because you like the guy doesn’t mean he should be immuned to scrutiny. He’s an NBA player getting meaningful minutes right now. 0-7 last night is a little hard to ignore.
Thought the story last night was 4-23 shooting off the bench. Not Wes. Wes played well. Chalk one up for him and let’s see what happens next game.
by Tangerine dream on Feb 23, 2011 12:42 PM CST up reply actions
You use the word "report"
I think that’s your problem.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
Well if it's just a sermon
please be reminded that few church goers sit through both services just so they can hear the exact same message.
If it’s just a platform your position has been well established.
I have no issue if you want to look at Wes negatively, he’s got a lot yet to prove. But don’t ignore the negative performances of others just to focus on him.
by Tangerine dream on Feb 23, 2011 2:47 PM CST up reply actions
I have no idea what that church analogy means
It’s a virtual pub. I’m the guy behind the bar. People still walk in the door. Some do so to drown their sorrows. Others to enjoy like-minded company. A few to pick fights. And so on and so forth.
Every now and then a nicely-dressed family of four drives in from miles away and complains about being served greasy food with dirty silverware in a crappy atmosphere surrounded by a bunch of drunks. I’m guessing that these may be the churchgoers you are talking about.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
Inappreciate the analogy
but please keep in mind bartenders are generally great listeners as well.
That stated, as with most bartenders, the female variety, I do enjoy the “intercourse”.
by Tangerine dream on Feb 23, 2011 3:25 PM CST up reply actions
"0-7 last night is a little hard to ignore."
Yet, you seem to ignore all the “0 for” nights Wes has had this season, and show up to comment only after Wes puts up his once-in-a-blue-moon acceptable stat line.
Why do you take criticism of a player so personally? Do you know him? Are you friends?
Only three more shopping days until the Trading Deadline!
You've made several posts in the last day about Wes, always leading with "fills up the stat line."
How come you continually point out the negatives in Wes Johnson’s game? He filled up the stat line.
Did you brush over his total stat line?
Rather than focus on just the month of Febuary. The play in other months too.
Wes has proven he can fill a stat sheet with rebounds, blocks, steals, assists, and he can definitely shoot.
You say these things, and then when people go and compare them against, ta dum, the stat lines, you’re off to the goalpost moving, eventually winding up talking about intangibles this time. It’s a weird conversation. You’re the one leading with “fills the stat line” about a player whose problem has a lot to do with the fact that he doesn’t, and you’ve already gotten into a huff multiple times when people have tried to let you off easy about that.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
So are you saying Wes didn't play well against Mil?
Cause it looked like he played pretty good to me, he missed some shots, but the only way he’s going to have value is if he is a willing shot taker (and hopefully maker) and then can play defense, and he did both last night from what I saw, didn’t watch any of the fourth though
Moving goalposts.
Wes has proven at times he can fill up the stat sheet with points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks. We are 2/3 through his rookie year. All I’m saying is give the guy chance before saying he’s bust or we should have taken cousins. His stats are decent compared to cousins and isn’t crazy. He can be become more consistent and we have pretty good player with no headaches. I don’t what your talking about moving goalposts.
by rickyrubio10 on Feb 23, 2011 7:39 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
When your first argument falls on its face, you make a new one. This is called "moving goalposts."
Look, I just gave you three examples of you saying “fill(s) a stat sheet.” Here are some more quotes of your text:
Keep bringing stats.
Your forgetting other factors. Crazy, lazy, overweight, fines, suspensions, fights, and cancerous locker rooms.
That’s the post I’m responding to, but I had some others to choose from:
You(‘re) still not looking at the big picture. I’m talking intangibles.
Stats don’t tell the whole truth about a player. Cancer in the locker room is not a good thing. Either is work ethic and being overweight.
You led with “fills the line.” When presented with the evidence that says Johnson doesn’t contribute that much outside of his own shot, you’re off into “But he’s not Cousins” land, talking about how people shouldn’t look too hard at the numbers.
Why did you lead with them, then? Why have you made the claim that Johnson is a plus rebounder – "above average" – multiple times, when it’s not true? Here’s the company Wes Johnson keeps, as a rebounder. He’s improved to the point where he’s somewhat worse than Gilbert Arenas.
Can’t you just say:
Wes Johnson has shown flashes, I hate how we’re harping on the holes in his gamewithout wrongfooting yourself making extremely questionable claims?
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Well I'll make this real simple if you don't understand.
Johnson stats along with cousins being a headache/headcase show IMO he was the better pick. Also not taking into consideration Johnson has a poor coach and below average point guard. How can you say all he does is shoot. Last night he had 8 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal, and 1 block. But you say he can only shoot. It!s your opinion I didn’support my argument. Don’t state your opinions as fact.
by rickyrubio10 on Feb 23, 2011 10:05 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Well I'll make this real simple if you don't understand.
Johnson stats along with cousins being a headache/headcase show IMO he was the better pick. Also not taking into consideration Johnson has a poor coach and below average point guard. How can you say all he does is shoot. Last night he had 8 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal, and 1 block. But you say he can only shoot. It!s your opinion I didn’support my argument. Don’t state your opinions as fact.
by rickyrubio10 on Feb 23, 2011 10:06 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Well I'll make this real simple if you don't understand.
Johnson stats along with cousins being a headache/headcase show IMO he was the better pick. Also not taking into consideration Johnson has a poor coach and below average point guard. How can you say all he does is shoot. Last night he had 8 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal, and 1 block. But you say he can only shoot. It!s your opinion I didn’support my argument. Don’t state your opinions as fact.
by rickyrubio10 on Feb 23, 2011 10:07 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Seriously
What is wrong with you? Are you 12 or just really really immature?
by rickyrubio10 on Feb 23, 2011 11:10 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah,
I just thought of that. We may have jeopardized him coming over.
Only three more shopping days until the Trading Deadline!
You're hilariously inept.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Wow
Here I thought you were a genius.
by rickyrubio10 on Feb 23, 2011 12:26 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Refuting something nobody has argued...
There’s some continuity with your previous posts, here.
For someone who’s supposedly upset with negative posting, you’re awfully free with the flamethrower. I think I’ll check out and try to find some way to agree with you sometime.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
A fair point is...
If anyone doesn’t think Wes had a decent came, and showed signs from coming out of an awful slump, then they are truly blind to reality. Like the nice block he had, cuts to the basket, decent rebounds, and overall fire.
This is the problem with stats. You miss so much.
by Rodman99 on Feb 22, 2011 11:07 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I shudder to think what's going to happen
when PD reads the first sentence of this comment.
Everything in the computer need my face on it. Mega Gigabytes, son!
Flip that sentiment...
…and then marvel at the power of selective attention and perception:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJG698U2Mvo
Every method of watching a basketball game has its ups, downs, and blind spots. One of the most notoriously iffy methods of accounting for action is the reliability of eyewitness accounts. People tend to focus on what is most easily recognizable to them and they purposefully look for patterns where none may exist.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
Wes was a totally different player tonight
Obviously the rookie game helped him get some mojo back.
Before the break he ran around like had two left feet. He was a mess. Pretty striking difference. One game I know, but I was happy to see it.
I agree that he looked different
And somewhat more confident, but…well, I suppose the 4 FTAs were atypical.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
Wait, I thought we were going to see the "Real Wes"
when he got to play SF full-time in Beasley’s absence. Now it is the after effects of the all-star weekend.
I just don't know what the point of hating him is
Really what are you trying to prove? Really to me it seems like if he does anything good it’s “nope, Wes sucks” the kid doesn’t even have a chance with the Wes haters
I don’t think any logical Wes fan thinks he is going to be a perennial All-Star, but I think it’s supremely logical and rational to assume he is going to get better. The kid is just a rookie, and he has shown flashes of being a good player, and as a rookie who isn’t really an all-world talent that is kind of what you want to see: he’s gonna have his ups and downs, but you want to see the flashes of what the guy can offer if he can figure somethings out. I believe we’ve seen flashes of a pretty productive basketball player in Wes and we should be rooting for the kid to come through on his skills. You might not like the pick, it actually wasn’t my choice either (I’d still take him over DMC any day, I just don’t think you can win with him at this point. Let’s sign DMC as a free agent when Sac is tired of his act)
I do buy the age argument and how it pertains to the potential debate, I don’t think Wes has the chance to be a perennial All-Star, but a contributing player on a playoff team I really don’t think is out of the question.
The guy needs to shoot with confidence, and so he’s going to have games where he shoots 1-6, but those games are gonna pay off once he learns what good shot selection is so those 6 shots are all great shots, and he hits 4 of them.
Not every NBA player shows up in year 1 and is effective right away, some are some aren’t, but there is really no reason to hate on the kid
Very well written.
I agree with what your saying.
by rickyrubio10 on Feb 23, 2011 8:00 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Wes is carrying a cross
built of the rage of rejected stat geekdom
to his grave?
by WinTheLottery on Feb 23, 2011 8:04 AM CST up reply actions
If that's the case, he should come down off it
We could use the wood.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
Wes' problem is two-fold:
1) He can’t get himself easy shots;
2) He can’t make difficult shots.
A great point guard or post player could help with Problem 1. Problem 2 is probably not going to change significantly over the course of his career.
And I'm okay with that
I don’t know that I’m really expecting anything more from him. And I don’t think that doesn’t make him a potentially good player, just one that needs to be created for.
I actually think a lot of problems this team has are due to not having even a good starting point guard let alone a great one.
Indeed
Our main problems come from people not knowing their roles. On a really good team, only a few people need to actually create their own shot.
The rest get created for. We just don’t have enough structure and order were that can be allowed to happen. Instead you have the Weses and Brewers (RIP) trying to create for themselves when it should not be that way.
Coaching Coaching Coaching
I think we’d all be on the same page if we had a good coach.
Players, fans, posters, Khan, Wes, SnP I really think if we had a good coach like Sam Mitchell it would all start to make sense. It wouldn’t be solved just yet, we still need a PG and a SG (and really probably a center at some point) but the framework is there
Also having a player to create
like a Rubio or Irving would also help lol
It's not that they don't know their roles...
it’s that nobody is suited for a primary offensive role, except maybe Michael Beasley. Things got messed up when Darko had two good games in a row and the pecking order fell out of whack.
Just a Fan, yesterday, mentioned the Corey was being asked to be the driving guard.
They may know their roles, but who’s setting things suckers up? We know for sure that Rambis is Darko’s offensive advocate.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Re: Brewer...
he may actually have been the best option for that role, if it was a role they wanted to “force” onto the roster. Wayne’s dribbling stops after clearing himself post-head fake. Johnson can’t dribble. Martell has a bad back.
The dribbling off-guard position is pretty much vacant on this roster.
We're overloaded at the wing. What we need is a 4/5.
So I am informed.
Even if Martell was healthy, that’s been the area he never developed in Portland. He was working on his handle in the preseason.
Evan Turner makes a lot of sense as a trade target.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Ok
I believe what you are saying, but my train of though is that the role of driving guard is not necessary if you have a really good PG to set the table.
So while it makes sense why Brewer tried to do what he did with us, there would be no need to force him into that role if we had a good PG running it all.
We needed 1 guard/wing
to be able to attack the basket. With Webster hurt, Brewer was the best choice (over Wes, Wayne, Telfair, Luke). Not that it was a good choice, just the best choice.
The limitations of the roster speak for themselves, there.
Heck, Randy Foye could put his head down and CHARGE.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
I didn't watch the game
but if Wes is starting to do some good things that don’t involve taking jump shots, I’m all for it. His stroke is good enough to eventually come around again. It’s the lack of production elsewhere that has concerned me: Rebounding, getting deflections, getting to the free throw line.
by Rascal Flatts on Feb 22, 2011 11:15 PM CST up reply actions
Mainly because I don't write a Sacramento Kings blog and I don't watch their games
Other than that, I suppose it’s mostly because I don’t like to watch filled-up stat lines that are “filled up” with 5-14 shooting lines.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
5 for 14
is better than 3 for 14 . He rebonded exceptionally well for a 2 guard. 3 assists, 1 steal, and 1 block. However, you focus on the 5 for 14. Look at the whole picture rather than foucs straight ahead.
by rickyrubio10 on Feb 22, 2011 10:41 PM CST up reply actions
We've won 4 games since January 2nd...
I wish we had Demarcus Cousins here JUST so he could punch out his teammates.
by BeasleBong on Feb 22, 2011 10:40 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Wes ended up using 18 possessions to get those 14 points
And sadly, that sort of inefficiency has become standard for him. He’s a big part of the problem right now, and SnP would be remiss not to highlight his patently obvious flaws.
by WolvesFan03 on Feb 22, 2011 10:43 PM CST up reply actions
How is Wes a big part of the problem?
Beasely has 5 turnovers. Darko has 3. Wes stat line is good and you claim he is the problem.
by rickyrubio10 on Feb 22, 2011 10:47 PM CST up reply actions
You claim Wes's statline was good?
I declare you to be the problem!
If it wasn't for Jordan Farmar and that guy Kevin Love, I would've killed somebody!
by John Doe on Feb 23, 2011 12:19 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Already added him to my fantasy team.
Just need to make sure Felton gets shipped elsewhere before I can make Lawson my permanent 3rd PG and dump Ridnour, who’s been (forgivably) slumping terribly.
If it wasn't for Jordan Farmar and that guy Kevin Love, I would've killed somebody!
Pek needs to be getting as many of Darko's minutes as possible from here on out
Tonight, Darko, Wes, Ridnour, and Telfair were burning through so many possessions on the offensive end—it was obscene. For Darko, in particular, burning through possessions tonight was sadly very representative of his play overall this season. There’s an obvious fix for Darko—we’ve got better options sitting on the bench right now (and will add another better front court option once Randolph can suit up).
Seriously—no more Darko. It’s time for Minnesota to become the 5th team that gives up on him.
Totally understand the frustration
But Pek really only has one NBA skill set: low post scoring. For this team to get better, either Darko or AR (maybe both) really have to become defensive difference makers.
Pek showed a lot more than scoring tonight.
You are a little soul carrying a corpse. --Epictetus
by Cynical Jason on Feb 22, 2011 11:00 PM CST up reply actions
Pek is shooting nearly 60% from the field in Feb
And this is the third or fourth game in a row with zero turnovers. He’s played solid ball this month.
by Rascal Flatts on Feb 22, 2011 10:56 PM CST up reply actions
Also, unlike Darko
He hasn’t already logged nearly 8000 NBA minutes. He’s a much better bet to actually improve from here on out.
by WolvesFan03 on Feb 22, 2011 11:00 PM CST up reply actions
True, although he's about the same age
I think any improvement we see from Pek will be purely a result of adjusting to the NBA game. He’s not going to add any new wrinkles to his game. It’s basically smashmouth basketball in the low post, physical position defense, poor weakside help, and OK rebounding. But if he can maximize his scoring efficiency and limit the TO’s, he can be a very solid big man off the bench.
by Rascal Flatts on Feb 22, 2011 11:09 PM CST up reply actions
+ a huge number
You are a little soul carrying a corpse. --Epictetus
by Cynical Jason on Feb 22, 2011 11:01 PM CST up reply actions
And it has risen in February, after gradually tailing off over the previous couple of months.
Basically Pekovic is feeling a bit more with it now, and he’s playing with some more confidence. He hasn’t fundamentally solved the fouls, though.
Work in progress. Insert animated “Under Construction” tattoo, swinging that sword.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
He's also the least violent....
….big fouler I can remember seeing. I’d at least like to see some face punching for all that contact.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
And who appears to actually try and punch people in the throat
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
He is definitely one of the cheaper players in the league
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
Oooh, I wanna see a Thabeet/Pekovic confrontation now!
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
The Wolves played tonight, and I missed it?
Tonight’s my lucky night. :-}
"The journey of 1000 miles, begins with a TWolves victory"
Kahn
I’m with S-n-P, If Kahn can get us a young shooting guard like Mayo, I’m willing to cut him SOME slack for a while, despite the absolute disaster that was the Flynn pick. His financial acumen is an asset in the trade market.
As for tonight’s game….kudos to Rambis for benching Darko after he essentially looked like he was on vacation in the first quarter. His Darkness had more life in the second half, but he better step it up or he won’t be getting more than 20 minutes anymore with Pek looking better and AR coming to town.
I think Tolliver is starting to be really overrated by fans. He is a useful guy on a contender but he really hasn’t been playing that well (tonight certainly included). I’d use him as trade bait along with our Utah pick for Mayo.
I got dragged out to see I Am Number Four tonight, so I had to DVR
the game. The movie was better than I expected and I am thinking the game will be worse than I expected.
Everything in the computer need my face on it. Mega Gigabytes, son!
At least it wasn't Justin Bieber's movie
I walked out at the first slo-mo hair flip.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
I don't dislike Justin Bieber. But I don't think I'd ever voluntarily watch his movie.
Everything in the computer need my face on it. Mega Gigabytes, son!
Wonder of Bieber
is available for Kahn. Could eliminate all problems related to Pau, etc.
Dingus Kahn, it's over
Neither would I
I drew a short straw and had to take one for the team. The team in this case being a group of parents of 12 and 13 year old girls who needed a chaperone. I had never been to a movie with that much screaming before that wasn’t a horror flick.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
Hah. I did make the mistake of seeing one of the Twilight films in
the theater. That was definitely an experience I don’t want to repeat.
Everything in the computer need my face on it. Mega Gigabytes, son!
You and SnP both need medals.
You are a little soul carrying a corpse. --Epictetus
by Cynical Jason on Feb 22, 2011 11:02 PM CST up reply actions
Ooooh
I get to see those, too. Sparkly vampires and shirtless werewolves. What could possibly be bad about that? I did get to avoid the Miley Cyrus concert movie. I also avoided Gnomeo and Juliet.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
I swear the third Twilight film was just teenagers staring lustily at one
another for two hours straight.
Everything in the computer need my face on it. Mega Gigabytes, son!
Don't forget the bad CGI
In between the lusty looks, there was definitely some ill-rendered fake wolves.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
SnP
Gnomeo and Juliet was actually pretty good. I was also sitting next to my hot wife so that may have made the movie seem better.
I'm Trill, I'm running w/ the WOLVES
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Feb 23, 2011 12:11 AM CST up reply actions
That probably makes the difference
I get to sit next to kids who squirm and pick boogers before reaching into the popcorn tub.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
I'm sure it was still better than Beiber
I'm Trill, I'm running w/ the WOLVES
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Feb 23, 2011 8:19 AM CST up reply actions
Just wanted to post to say
Good job complementing your wife. People use lots of negative terms for their spouse and then we wonder why marriages fail so often in this country.
“Mrs. SnP” and “GRLHOLUP” are great/funny names too.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Feb 23, 2011 8:25 AM CST up reply actions
I appreciate that Wile E Coyote!
I do what I can. It is also works for me because she can say, “your on that timberwolves website again?” And I can say, “Look what I said about you!” And then she’ll say, “awww” and then in a good senerio I can’t tell you the rest.
I'm Trill, I'm running w/ the WOLVES
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Feb 23, 2011 8:32 AM CST up reply actions
in a good scenario
she lets you spend 10-15 additional minutes on Canis Hoopus? That’s nothing to be ashamed of, buddy.
I haven't written an insightful post in years.
by littleboxes on Feb 23, 2011 9:19 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I have no response to that :)
I'm Trill, I'm running w/ the WOLVES
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Feb 23, 2011 9:33 AM CST up reply actions
I view it as a downpayment..
…for when my kids have to put me in a home. Daughter #1 owes me. Big time.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
I have never yet seen more than a still image of Justin Bieber, and only then in passing.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
wow
I see him in line at the grocery store. every week. sob, sob…
I haven't written an insightful post in years.
It is surprising how easy it can be to avoid something like this.
The result of the Super Bowl takes less than a day, alas.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
we need to fire rambis
nuff said.
MAYN HOL UP!
by MAYNHOLUP on Feb 22, 2011 10:49 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
They were tied with the Bucks in turnovers at 11
Until the last half of the fourth quarter, when we decided to go on a 6-0 run on turnovers.
Dingus Kahn, it's over
by Flagrant on Feb 22, 2011 10:53 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
they certainly seemed to come in flurries
one at the beginning of the game and one late.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
Not coincidentally
Those were the times Darko was on the court. He’s just awful. I love him, but I don’t think we should let him touch the ball anymore.
If it wasn't for Jordan Farmar and that guy Kevin Love, I would've killed somebody!
It's not just the many recorded TOs
it is all the times he hangs his teammates out to dry by burning through the shot clock
Hey man
Lefty hooks with a 40% success rate don’t just come out of nowhere. Sometimes you’ve got to burn 10-15 seconds to set one of those babies up right.
If it wasn't for Jordan Farmar and that guy Kevin Love, I would've killed somebody!
It really is tough to understand how
Rambis looks at the roster he has and decides that instead of running the offense through Beasley or Love that it instead time to feed Darko until he drops.
Obviously it was wrong in hindsight but I really want someone to have Kahn or Rambis explain what they were so sure they saw. And whether now that we have seen the awful results of this for 3/4 of a season whether they realize they were wrong at the time and how they’ll change that process going forward.
Especially now...
….that I think everyone is reasonably sure that Rambis is coaching for his job. Once folks can get over the “Hey, wait…wasn’t he doing that before?” shock of it all, or the “He can’t really be that stubborn, can he?” angles, they will realize that this is him trying his very hardest, and yes, apparently he’s been doing so all along.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Feb 23, 2011 6:02 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
yeah
I’m realizing that I wasted hours of time last year trying to figure out if Rambis was tanking or just a bad coach. This was the year we found out and…
I haven't written an insightful post in years.
I so hate to agree with you
But it is confounding.
by Tangerine dream on Feb 23, 2011 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
Kahn conference call wrap up
Here:
Kahn has said multiple times he didn’t anticipate making a blockbuster trade before Thursday’s deadline and it appears this may be the only move the team makes. There are areas the team needs to improve on, Kahn says, but they will like wait until the summer and — despite the team’s 13-44 record — there are no big changes coming.
“One thing I want to make very clear. I like the team. I like the team’s potential. I like its promise. I like its future. There is no new rebuilding plans coming to the front. There is no wholesale changes coming either the next 48 hours or even this summer. I think most of what we have to do now is some fine-tuning and make sure we cover ourselves in that area.”
Kahn targeted three areas that he thinks the team needs to improve on come summer. The first — and most obvious — is solidifying the point guard position. Despite drafting two point guards with the fifth and sixth overall picks in 2009 and signing one this past off season, the cupboard is practically bare. Jonny Flynn has struggled mightily since returning from hip surgery, Luke Ridnour is a nice veteran backup, the closest Sebastian Telfair gets to the court most nights is warm-ups and Ricky Rubio is still in Spain.
The second piece Kahn says the team needs to find is “another athletic four/five that can compliment the players we have.”
Fans reading this may be wondering, ’didn’t the team just trade for an athletic four/five that can compliment the players we have?’ But again, Kahn admits he “wants to have it both ways.” He wants to see if Randolph can become that player without putting the pressure on him that he has to become that player.
“On one level I want to see what Anthony can do in that role but I don’t want to put the pressure on him that he’s it, that that’s all we can do. But maybe we can supplement him too, this off season.”
The third and final piece of the puzzle according to Kahn is an issue that has plagued the Wolves all season: leadership. The team has used the convenient excuse all season that the lack of leadership stems from the fact that they are the youngest team in the league — and just got younger by trading a 24-year old for a 21-year old — but Kahn says that isn’t good enough.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
An athletic four/five...
…I could’ve sworn we had someone like that:

Everything in the computer need my face on it. Mega Gigabytes, son!
He had a really reasonable contract too.
But I think if we still had him we would be clamoring to trade him. Randolph might fit this role a little better.
by waldo11teen on Feb 22, 2011 11:37 PM CST up reply actions
Let's see, a quick comparision
Randolph:
no shot
good handles
good dunks
good shot blocking
BBIQ?
Hollins:
pretty nice jumper
none handles
good dunks
horrendous shot blocking
horrible BBIQ
I don’t know who is better, but for both being athletic 4/5s I think there are about as different as they come.
I know it was a joke, and I am so glad I don’t have to watch Hollins anymore.
I wasn't comparing Randolph and Hollins.
I was referencing Kahn saying that we need another 4 or 5 in addition to Randolph.
Everything in the computer need my face on it. Mega Gigabytes, son!
Well, that took me about 2 minutes to write
So I’m just gonna assume you were
makes me think about rasho
for a guy who was just “average”, he was certainly above average when it comes to complementing a good 4.
i just wonder what love thinks of all these new people at the 4/5. we need some consistency and continuity.
does he think we're set at the 2?
The fact that he doesn’t see the huge whole at the 2 makes me worried. I don’t think he understands the difference between the 2 and 3 in the nba. Aside from ellington, we have no natural 2. No coincidence, we GET KILLED by opposing 2s on a nightly basis. Even when they’re crappy 2s. To make matters worse, we GET KILLED by opposing 1s too. Some trade involving flynn and one of our middle 1st rounders for mayo needs to happen. After that rambis needs to go at the end of the season.
by Ominuz P on Feb 22, 2011 11:23 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I don't know the answer, but I have a question
Does Kahn not see the huge hole or is it that in Rambis’ offense wings are supposed to que off the point guard leading Kahn to believe that’s the actual problem?
this is not a good sign
that he does not mention a need at the 2. Maybe he’s trying to protect Wes or something. Damn, it’s fun being an apologist for David Kahn.
I haven't written an insightful post in years.
Yes, clearly point guard and athletic PF/C play is what we're missing
The wolves obviously do not lack production at any other positions. Especially not wing play. We’re set there after all of Kahn’s amazing off-season wing additions.. http://www.82games.com/1011/1011MIN5.HTM
by oblivionspocket on Feb 22, 2011 11:24 PM CST up reply actions
In the past 2 years..
….he’s sunk a ton into 2 positions: the point and the wing. These remain the black holes of the squad. That’s kind of a hard point to get around with the guy.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
With the modern hand-checking rules
I’d say those are the most important positions too….
We don’t have one guy who can even semi-consistently beat his man off the dribble.
First up
Finding wings who can dribble. Radical times require radical ideas.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
weird idea - jr smith
What about picking up jr smith as a high volume 2? He’s a head case with some sweet tats, but I’m sure he’d be more than happy to fire away.
by Ominuz P on Feb 22, 2011 11:37 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
If Nene came along for the ride...
…that would be awesome. As a player, I think he would work. I’m not sure the team would spring for him, however.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
Nene isn't available.
And if he were, how did we get him? I hate when people just add other team’s best players to another roster without presenting a logical case for why the other team is giving him up. Sorry to make you a scapegoat.
If it wasn't for Jordan Farmar and that guy Kevin Love, I would've killed somebody!
I'm hearing rumbles that Nene like Oklahoma City
He wants 5 years, $50 million, or he’ll explore free agency with the Thunder as his #1 destination
well
He’s a good big who would be a nice fit with the Thunder. (Career 56% shooter who’s shot 60.4, 58.7 and 63.7% the past three seasons) and he’s got a cool single Brazilian name so he’ll probably get a contract in that ballpark.
That being said, he’s had two seasons virtually wiped out by injury in the past 6. (ACL, Thumb, Testicular Cancer) so paying him like Noah or Horford (both who i think are better and younger) isn’t super appealing. And Kendrick Perkins isn’t as young as I thought, so somebody will make a big offer in free agency.
How many testicles are left?
A man can only miss a season with that ailment so many times before you really don’t need to worry about him missing any more time with it anymore.
If it wasn't for Jordan Farmar and that guy Kevin Love, I would've killed somebody!
Yeah but Brazilian nuts are small...

by Breaking Ankles on Feb 23, 2011 10:31 AM CST up reply actions
Nene on the Thunder is pretty scary for sure
The guy is a beast in the low post. He’s got size, reach, athleticism, skill, and is insanely efficient scoring the ball. Everything the Thunder need and currently lack in a big man. You put him on the floor with Durant on the outside and Westbrook wrecking havoc in between, and there’s no way you can guard that team.
Big Dudes
Yeah, offensively he’s really low maintenance (gets to the line 5 times a game, decent free throw shooter for a big and great FG%) so he’s a great fit with Westbrook and Durant (and has experience with similar usage with Melo)
I’d just want to take a good look at his medical file before committing that much money, but the other major options for size either have their own history of injury (Perkins, T. Chandler, Yao), are restricted (Marc Gasol, DeAndre Jordan, Spencer Hawes) or Both (Greg Oden)
Also there’s some decent second tier guys like Dalembert, Krstic and Mohammed available, but they’re not going to be game changers.
There’s some pretty intriguing talent going on the market in the center position this off-season, I just think it’s going to be a crapshoot as to who actually gets value from their signings and which teams end up with a broken down big man.
I was going to interject
to rain on everyone’s parade by saying that Oklahoma City won’t have any cap space left since Durant’s extension kicks in after this season. But then I looked it up, and they actually will in spite of it!
Morris Peterson, Krystic, and Jeff Green come off the books, and the neat trick they did with Collison’s contract makes him become way cheaper than he had been in years past. All that combines to put them at just under $40m next year, which, if the CBA weren’t about to change, would improbably leave them with max cap space.
You gotta hand it to Presti on that one. He stayed so patient year after year, always maintaining the next year’s cap space using it to pick up small assets. Now, with two self-developed stars, he’s in position to finally make that singular move (assuming he’s smart enough to cut ties with Jeff Green). Sign Nene, move Ibaka and Harden into the starting lineup, and that’s an absurd team.
If it wasn't for Jordan Farmar and that guy Kevin Love, I would've killed somebody!
He's definitely cutting ties with Green
No option picked up, no extension offered. Same scenario as Corey Brewer
I actually looked up their cap situation when I first heard it too because I didn’t believe it either. It’s definitely doable
it's 4:30 am
why are we still up lol.
"Wes [Johnson] is old, passive, and below-average in every aspect of his game except outside shooting and smiling" - PoorDick
Oceanary is actually an IBM AI machine
programmed to discuss basketball and other worldly issues. Did you not know that?
I haven't written an insightful post in years.
The latest Turing Test winning chatbots have a better game than any of us.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Yeah, that is odd
Perhaps he’s banking on Beasley and Wes eventually becoming a compelling combo on the wings, but wowzers, they have a looooooooong ways to go.
by Rascal Flatts on Feb 22, 2011 11:28 PM CST up reply actions
That's a good point.
He either believes or wants to believe that Wes can be the longandathletic two, so, yeah, we’re set there for two or three more years, at least until Wes goes into the downside of his career.
Only three more shopping days until the Trading Deadline!
Not to stomp on a good old person Wes joke...
….but did anyone see Martell Webster’s dunk and the way he walked after he finished the play? How bad is his back? Ouch. It hurt to watch.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
I think we got damaged goods.
I think his back will flare up on off all the time. I thought I heard something about lawsuit. The wolves were considering filing suit against Portland for sending a damaged goods. Did you hear anything about that?
by rickyrubio10 on Feb 22, 2011 11:49 PM CST up reply actions
RUMINT has it
That Webster told Kahn that he informed the Blazers of the injury before the trade and that there is some sort of proof of that. I don’t know the first thing about employment law (especially in the NBA) so I’m not sure if that meets any sort of legal standard or if it’s even true. I have heard it from a few different people, however.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
Contract
How long is he signed for? I honestly think his back is holding him back. No pun intended. He’s better player than he shown here IMO. I don’t think he’ll ever recover from that back injury. He hasn’t done anything here. He was decent in Portland. Not an an allstar but decent.
by rickyrubio10 on Feb 22, 2011 11:56 PM CST up reply actions
He's signed through next year...
…with a partial guarantee for the following season. Also, and not to start another argument, this is another example of eyeballs vs. the stat sheet. He’s performing pretty much like he always has:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/webstma02.html
Back injury or no back injury, Martell Webster appears to be this type of player.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
PPG
His ppg have to be down. Aren’t they?
by rickyrubio10 on Feb 23, 2011 12:03 AM CST up reply actions
It's not that hard
to look it up yourself . . .
Only three more shopping days until the Trading Deadline!
Maybe he has TrentEdwards disorder
Everything in the computer need my face on it. Mega Gigabytes, son!
Hey
I ASKED YOU IF HIS PPG ARE DOWN, OR NOT!!! Christ, wtf is wrong with you a-holes?
Only three more shopping days until the Trading Deadline!
What's wrong with you?
Does everything you post have to some smart ass comment? Seriously, grow up!
by rickyrubio10 on Feb 23, 2011 12:09 AM CST up reply actions
Tonight's game wrap...
…might be the start of a WikiHoopus page. The Wolves holidays, the posting disorders, definitions, debates, etc.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
That could be awesome
- Understanding Tim Allen’s Game Previews
- Link to the Paul Milsap doctrine
- Brief history of horrible trades gone worse
- Longer history of horrible draft mistakes
- Picture of Marko with his jersey on backward
- Video of Garnett fleeing from Anthony Peeler’s fist
It is a rich tapestry around here.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Feb 23, 2011 8:34 AM CST up reply actions
also different sagas of former posters
ChuckD goes to Asia
Trent Edwards gets angry
Biggity2Bit is a homer and then can’t stand it anymore (is he ok by the way)
Omaha Sun likes Creighton (we don’t here from him much any more)
I’m relatively new here so I don’t know about other posters of the past.
I'm Trill, I'm running w/ the WOLVES
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Feb 23, 2011 8:38 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
What ever happened to...
Kevin Love Jefferson? Did it just get too difficult to keep up the optimistic schtick?
Tim you are a Timberwolf
You are not human. Your childlike optimism is a light in the dark for us all.
I'm Trill, I'm running w/ the WOLVES
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Feb 23, 2011 11:55 AM CST up reply actions
And that is
probably something that she is likely to have said.
Only three more shopping days until the Trading Deadline!
I can't even get her
to drop the “temporary” restraining order, much less talk to me.
Only three more shopping days until the Trading Deadline!
Sorry
I just looked at your link. My eyeball tells he isn’t doing that great. I guessed I expected him to be better. You get what you pay for I guess.
by rickyrubio10 on Feb 23, 2011 12:06 AM CST up reply actions
Me, a few inches above:
“this is another example of eyeballs vs. the stat sheet.”
This is why when David Kahn says that he paid to see Martell Webster play or that he ties physical atributes to every player description that escapes his lips, you should worry. Do you know how George Lucas can only create planets with a single topographical feature (ice planet, forrest planet, desert planet, etc)? That is sort of how Kahn views basketball players. Much like George Lucas creates entire worlds based on a single observed characteristic, Kahn selects players with something along the lines of “I remember seeing player x do [insert athletic achievement here] so he [insert logical, to Kahn, extrapolation about player x’s talent here]”.
Meanwhile, someone who has never, ever seen Martell Webster before could have taken 5 minutes of his/her time looking at his Basketball Reference page and come to the conclusion that, you know what, he’s a fairly consistent performer and his numbers don’t look like they are anything out of the ordinary for his position/skill set…I think I’d not give up a player with equal production and a 16th pick for his services. At the very, ver, very least, it would be nice to have a voice like this in the Wolves’ front office to offset the very clear eyeball workings of Kahn and, more capably on the eyeball front, Ronzone.
Unfortunately, the whole 5 minutes and an internet connection thing is (understandably, considering what it would say about their track record) anathema to this particular group of people.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Feb 23, 2011 6:17 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
You would think that ..
the league leader in player development would have been more interested in Idaho Stampede player extraordinaire Luke Babbitt. After all, there’s just so much more room for him to develop.
If Kahn thinks Martell was stuck at the end of the Blazer’s bench, he should get a load of Babbitt’s 91 minutes. Just give the guy a couple of games and he’ll already have improved his career ft% by at least 0.400. When did Martel ever improve his ft% by 0.400?
I personally would have drafted Austin Toros legend James Anderson, who has averaged 3.57 TO in his 7 d-league games. Sure his 22 nba three pointers make a small sample for me to get excited about his .500 3pt%, but then, regression to the mean be damned, he could shoot even better.
I wish Kahn would understand that when he pursues nba veterans like Webster and Darko, he is taking players who only offer a small fraction of the developmental fun that late first round draft picks and d-leauge players offer. Sure, some veterans will make modest improvements when given extra minutes, but that’s nothing compared to the utter joy watching of watching rookies briefly establish unrealistically high levels of production before taking a precipitous plunge into the nether regions of KK Cedevita. Who knows, maybe they’ll occasionally stick around?
sorry, that was silly.
by oblivionspocket on Feb 23, 2011 12:53 AM CST up reply actions
Silly despair. Is that you, Samuel Beckett?
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
this is good
but the comparison is Gomes + Babbit >= Webster
Gomes is just as productive as Webster, healthier, and made less guaranteed money. For this to be a good trade Webster needs to become more productive than Gomes on offense (unlikely) or he needs to be a plus defender (I don’t see it).
I haven't written an insightful post in years.
Webster looks like an old man
Hunched over, carrying a bundle of sticks.
especially on Defense,.
If there was a defense for his acquisition, it would have been on the defensive end of the court. At least a little lateral movement and some length would seem to be possible positives on the leeser statisticised end of the court.
SO
If there is a defense of the looks the part strategy, it would probably start at that end alse. Unfortunately, the Wolves apparently have not reached a critical mass of part looking yet, hence no results worth writing home about.
by WinTheLottery on Feb 23, 2011 2:24 PM CST up reply actions
Bill Simmons says it's something like the 10,000 minute line
Where the legs go (could be 12,000). Can’t remember… I’m tired. But he had the stats to back it up.
Just remember that with all these Lebron, Melo, Howard types who’ve got a lot of miles on those legs. Wes is as fresh as a new born baby.
10,000
And it is true, Grant Hill is a shinning case study for this rule. He looks fresh but is old. It is less age that is the limiting factor than it is minutes.
However, recently he pointed out how recent stars, Kobe, Nash etc, are blazing through the 10,000 minute mark due to modern medicine and training.
The point remains, but the mark might need to be moved back for future generations.
I think the word you're looking for is
“longthletic”.
In terms of backcourt net PER, the team has gotten worse every year.
2010-2011
PG -4.9 net PER
SG -7.6 net PER
SF -5.1 net PER
total backcourt net PER= -17.6
2009-2010
PG -3.7 net PER
SG -5.1 net PER
SF -6.4 net PER
total backcourt net PER= -15.2
2008-2009
PG -7.0 net PER
SG -2.4 net PER
SF -4.2 net PER
total backcourt net PER= – 13.6
Sorry if any of the arithmetic is off.
by oblivionspocket on Feb 22, 2011 11:41 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Those are some terrifying numbers.
How far can it go?
If it wasn't for Jordan Farmar and that guy Kevin Love, I would've killed somebody!
All the more terrifying considering it should be going the other way
08-09 was Foye and McCants, who were both historically bad. And this year we have Ridnour, who’s a better point guard that anyone since Cassell, and invested major resources into a couple guys who should be solid. Scary stuff right there
08-09 was actually an improvement over 07-08
In 07-08, the total backcourt net PER= -15.4.
by oblivionspocket on Feb 23, 2011 1:05 AM CST up reply actions
Backcourt PER
Most teams, with the possible exceptions of the Wolves, attack the biigest mismatch.
Unmercifully, until they can’t. Since the backcourt hasn’t stopped anybody yet, opponents haven’t felt compelled to move on to the frontcourt.
IF/When they do, KLove better be ready, since he is the mark.
by WinTheLottery on Feb 23, 2011 2:28 PM CST up reply actions
How many variations on "Kevin Love's performance isn't legit"
do we need to have on hand? It’s like a Swiss Army Knife.
Michael Beasley does poorly? Kevin Love doesn’t make his teammates better.
Michael Beasley scores 30? Kevin Love can only thrive when Beasley’s creating for the offense.
We got ‘em for every situation. The defensive weakness of the backcourt is keeping Kevin Love from being truly exploited by the opposition now. And simultaneously, when someone like LaMarcus Aldridge goes off, it’s Love who is to blame – because Darko shouldn’t be having to defend LMA and giving up those points. I don’t remember those arguments when Kevin Garnett didn’t defend Tim Duncan back in the day…
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
I didn't want to burst anyone's bubble up above, but I think he has Wes Johnson in mind at the 2
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
I mean I know you see it...
… and I know most see it. But how in the eff they don’t see that they just let go one lottery-born 2/3 because he couldn’t dribble and chew gum at the same time to create time at the same position for his slightly less cross-eyed and significantly less defensively aggressive clone is friggin bananas. I like Wes, and I think he’d be solid if we had a point-heavy system and a ball-dominant guard that would allow him to run off of screens and capitalize when he could. But we are sooooo far from the system that he (and Flynn and Darko and Pek and Beasley) need to blossom it hurts to watch. And we are almost at two years without a significant adjustment to any of the philosophy on either end of the floor. We need to fire Rambis or move Wes AND Rubio. It’s that simple.
If all goes well we may have a ball dominant PG and PG system next year
I'm Trill, I'm running w/ the WOLVES
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Feb 23, 2011 8:33 AM CST up reply actions
Hey Zeuss Kee Riminy, did they just fail to mention shooting guard at all?
Looking at this roster, he said to himself “We don’t have enough bodies at the 4 and 5.” No need for a 2, though.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
he's made statements about an excess supply of wings
so he’s not looking there. sigh
I haven't written an insightful post in years.
Yep, he's fixed the problem: He traded Corey Brewer.
When you remove the bad trike wheel, you need to put a good one on there, Mr. Kahn.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Kahn does realize...
That the objective is to create a team that wins and not necessarily a team that he likes, right?
I did
I traded in an old tube amp I never used and was able to make an even swap.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
And only a few days
before the trading deadline!
Only three more shopping days until the Trading Deadline!
LOL...what old tube amp?
Just curious. As a guitar player and collector….when I hear “old” and “gear”….I immedialtely start salivating…
"But this one goes to eleven..."
One of these:
http://www.fender.com/products/search.php?partno=2330100000
My pride and joy is one of these:
http://www.fender.com/products/search.php?partno=0217400000
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
Nice...
Dont dump the deluxe reverb…
I’ve got an old 63 Showman that I like and a dumble styled amp. Fun stuff.
You want another VERY addicting forum: www.thegearpage.net
"But this one goes to eleven..."
Thanks for the link
I love the old deluxe reverb amp. I’m pleasantly surprised with the Mustang. It’s a solid state bit and it doesn’t have much power, but it does have a nice little interface, a USB output, and some nifty on-line software that allows for easy tone modeling. It also works with ProTools and Garage Band. You can be up and recording with a ton of good amp models in about 2 minutes.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
Here's a few positives from tonight
- Wes played with way more fire and assertiveness. His shot wasn’t falling, but he made some key buckets, a nice block, and got to the rim a few times. Very promising. Definitely happy to let him take minutes and see what he can do. When his three start dropping again (1-6 outside the arc, 4-8 inside).
- Great to see Beasley back. He was shooting well. Love it when he goes glass. Unstoppable. Want to see him drive more.
- Love was his usual gritty self playing within himself. Nearly automatic when he is squared up behind the arc. Still don’t get why he doesn’t foul guys and send them to the line more. I’m old school. Make them earn it.
- Pek looked good. Nice muscle. Starting to wonder if he should be our starting center.
- Tolliver played steller D. And the second unit played some great D, even though they couldn’t score for the life of them.
Some “less positive” observations…
- Darko plays with so little fire. It’s like he doesn’t even sweat out there. And looks to foul just so he can go back to the bench. Don’t understand it.
- Bassy played good D, and did some good things, but his inability to finish is so frustrating. He blows past people, makes a great move, and then misses a wide open lay-up.
- Ridnour saves us a lot with great drives and shots. Wish he’d just set people up more. Want a little more pass first out of Ridnour, but I suppose at least he’s willing to shoot.
Final observation. One of the strangest refereed game I can remember. So many bad, weird calls. On both sides.
- Webster is still hurting. Gallinari had similar surgery and it took him a good year to get fully back. Will cross my fingers for Webster.
I like Pek a ton
But he can’t play D either. It’s like he went to the K-Love school of undersized strong white guys with short arms.
We would get killed more in the lane than we already are with him starting. I think a Randolph/Pek combo off the bench might look real nice.
Team's better with Pek at C defensively than Darko
Team is actually worse with Darko at center than any of the other four options the wolves have used (Pek, KK, Tolliver or Love.)
Why spell it with a c?
C is the worst letter in the English language. It is 6 man material. Any hard c can be replaced by the letter K and any sofft c can be replaced by the letter s. We all know Pek deserves much better than a c in his name!
I'm Trill, I'm running w/ the WOLVES
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Feb 23, 2011 9:39 AM CST up reply actions
Funny how we made Maggette look like it was a couple of years ago.
Probably could’ve used a defensive stopper tonight.
Eh
He blew up on us last time too… if that was a Brewer reference
Fact check:
Maggette had a very similar game last time around against Minnesota, going 7-16 but getting to the line 8 times and making all 8.
(Last year with the Warriors he played us 3 times, and it was a bit of a mixed bag on the ever-changing, ever-injury-plagued Golden State roster.)
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
He was 17-20 from the line in the last preseason game
in 14 minutes.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
I wonder if Darko's done
and if either he’s heading back East over the summer, or Kahn will call in their alleged “Gentlemen’s Agreement.” Maybe they’ll let him down easy by saying, “Hey, we tried running the offense through you, and it didn’t work. We’d love to have you stay on as a defensive big man, though.” Either he succumbs, or leaves.
Only three more shopping days until the Trading Deadline!
Thinking the same thing
Perhaps that’s my favorite part of Darko. No way he sits on the bench to collect paychecks like our newest acquisition, Curry. He’ll walk away first.
Must all between the ears with him. Unless he has like a low thyroid or something. He’s so listless. And just wants out of the game so fast.
He needs some therapy. Seriously.
by Rodman99 on Feb 22, 2011 11:48 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Other possible ailments
Here:
http://www.earwolf.com/show/comedy-death-ray-radio-scott-aukerman
(scroll down to “list of ailments”)
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
I podcasted that episode...
…and I first heard it while sitting in traffic right smack in the middle of the I35/94 interchange. Cars on the left and right of me. They must have thought I was having seizures.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
Yeah
I’m generally a huge defender of Darko because he has the skill set to be a good player and does a very good job against most 4/5s. But word from the Serbia diaspora is that he just doesn’t like basketball that much. He’s competitive so he’ll bring it when he feels challenged by an opponent or when he is playing for his country, but he is just not the kind of guy who loves the game enough to bring consistent effort in the dog days of a horrible year.
It is just inexcusable that a guy that big and athletic isn’t changing more shots and getting more boards. And don’t get me started on the free throw shooting.
It's too bad
It would have been a fun story if would have turned out differently.
Only three more shopping days until the Trading Deadline!
Carl Landry to New Orleans for Marcus Thornton
Interesting deal
Everything in the computer need my face on it. Mega Gigabytes, son!
And by interesting, I mean I don't understand why either side wants to do it.
Do the Kings need more combo guards? Do the Hornets think Landry and West can play together? I don’t get it.
Everything in the computer need my face on it. Mega Gigabytes, son!
Landry is insurance for West leaving
I imagine SAC is still under the delusion that Tyreke can play PG effectively which makes Thornton a rare candidate who could be paired with him as an inverted SG.
Just seems like the Hornets are giving away all of their good guards.
Bayless. Collison. Thornton.
Everything in the computer need my face on it. Mega Gigabytes, son!
and soon CP3
I'm Trill, I'm running w/ the WOLVES
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Feb 23, 2011 12:18 AM CST up reply actions
Jarrett Jack is not the solution.
Everything in the computer need my face on it. Mega Gigabytes, son!
Maybe they want bassy?%
I'm Trill, I'm running w/ the WOLVES
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Feb 23, 2011 12:35 AM CST up reply actions
Thorton was good
But didn’t get any burn cause the new coach plays hardball defense.
He just fell out of rotation down there.
jerryd Bayless
There where some rumors about a month or two ago about the Wolves trading for him….I really think he’d be perfect for us. He still isn’t getting tons of clock in Toronto
Love was very complimentary about Bayless in an interview.
Have we crossed into whichever-teammates-our-star-wants territory yet?
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Love loves everyone in the 2008 class though
lol
I think I heard the same Simmons interview?
He loves Mayo, Westbrook, Bayless, Beasley, Rose
he basically loves the first 8 picks in that draft
Which is why we should get Mayo and Bayless!!!!!
Kinda redundant though
I’d assume they’d basically facilitate the same position
Nice post SNP
Been awhile since commenting, but I did watch the wolves game vs. clips before the all star break. Also made some urgent pleas to Kahn to trade for Mayo. Since Chad Ford is my neighbor maybe I can convince him to write up how the wolves should trade for someone at the 1-2 position that can play an efficient game of basketball…Mayo please!
Some things that struck me from the clips game were as follows:
1. Pekovic is improving the most of any t-wolf (assuming K-love was already awesome).
2. The backcourt is really really bad.
3. Ridnour is just below average and well, that’s the best I can say about any of our 1-2 guards.
4. Tolliver makes your heart swell. Plays hard, does all the dirty work, makes the most of his limited athleticism, probably shoots too many 3’s….
5. Darko still looks fairly timid, while showing flashes of brilliance. He is a serviceable center for 20 minutes a game.
6. Love is amazing, went toe-toe with Griffin and DeAndre Jordan and had a solid game.
Some general comments:
1. I like the Randolph trade, even though the backcourt needs serious upgrading.
2. How many wins would this team have if Deron Williams was the wolves point guard?
3. Can Rubio be the point guard that puts this team on a winning path?
4. Wolves still need a shooting guard even if Rubio is the goods. Ellington is a bench player, Lazar is a poor man’s Ellington.
5. Wes Johnson is a natural 3 and can be a solid starter at that position. Nothing spectacular though…
Wow, awesome question there
2. How many wins would this team have if Deron Williams was the wolves point guard?
It really helps me put a face on the idea that the Wolves need a good facilitator, and how good we could be.
I would expect maybe 50 wins with all our talent if the team was run right, and we had a CP3 or D-Will top shelf guard. Is that too much?
Surely 0.500 ball is within reason.
Randolph will be Darko, Webster
I just don’t feel Randolph will be great here when he couldn’t earn any time in NY. Knicks don’t play defense and run up & down much like Wolves. Why here and not there. Webster is the Blazer Webster here & Darko doesn’t compete every night here just like his prior stops. We’ll see but not a believer at all.
Darko should flat out not be playing...
If our starting Center broke his femur, our team would improve. This is depressing.
Patiently waiting for a new POBO
you know, for a fee
I might be able to do something about your little problem…
I haven't written an insightful post in years.
Are you also part of the Terrorist organization?
I'm Trill, I'm running w/ the WOLVES
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Feb 23, 2011 9:39 AM CST up reply actions
A few what?
O man they might of gotten to him before he could finish! Now we’ll never know!
I'm Trill, I'm running w/ the WOLVES
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Feb 23, 2011 9:47 AM CST up reply actions
I'm OK
I work at a University. I’m surrounded by liberal, elitist, terrorist appeasers.
I haven't written an insightful post in years.
This game
I actually kind of hope this is how the team plays for the next 10 games or so.
Love plays like a fringe All-Star, Beasley plays really solid and you can see improvement (he’s gotta cut the turnovers down, but he shot well) but the team looses because of coaching.
I just hope the coaching issues become so stupidly obvious that Rambis has to go.
OJ Mayo
I get a lot of crap for trying to get the Wolves to trade for OJ Mayo, but seriously what could possibly go wrong?
I don’t believe he is a franchise saver, but he’s a 2 guard that can actually handle the rock a little, probably play a few minutes at the point guard if needed, he can shoot (although he hasn’t been doing a very good job of it this year) he’s gotta be at least no worse defensively than anything we currently have (I still believe there is a good defensive player in there). I mean if we’re talking Martell Webster, Johnny Flynn and some trade exception for Mayo and Thabeet (maybe we can get a pick out of the deal)
I really don’t see what the risk is? If he fails he fails, if he maximizes his talent we could be setting ourselves up for a very very promising future
I agree that there's not much to lose by getting Mayo
but he is on the bench because his coach decided that he does not have the ability to guard 2-guards in the NBA.
I haven't written an insightful post in years.
Some of this game was on the players, right?
I definitely think Rambis and Kahn should be gone, and their incompetence is the main reason we have the same # of wins as last year. But we missed 11 FTs and a number of layups / close shots (Rindour’s off a nice feed from Wes with a minute left down 1 being the biggest example, but Ellington missed a fast-break layup and there were a few others). And Rindour had other options than taking that terrible 3, regardless of whether the play drawn up by Rambis was any good.
I liked the fact that Wes was more aggressive and he does make the right pass more often than not. Rambis maybe shortened the rotation a bit (at least till he starts working in Randolph), but at the end of the day this loss seemed more about missed opportunities by the players rather than terrible coaching. That’s progress, right?
Wayne and Bassy 0-11 and the missed free throws is what did it.
also turnovers
I'm Trill, I'm running w/ the WOLVES
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Feb 23, 2011 9:36 AM CST up reply actions
Agreed
Any loss people go straight to the coach. I have heard good arguments about why Rambis is a bad coach, but when it comes down to it, if players are missing little bunny layups how can you be so sure that Rambis’ poor coaching is showing and not just our team’s crappiness?
Anyways, this one falls on the players. We had a chance to win but missed easy shots and free throws which probably would have won it.
I was thinking the same thing last night
and then I convinced myself that I was wrong. The team did have chances to win, but getting the ball to Darko and Ridnour for multiple shots with the game on the line seems silly. They did manage to get Love one open three pointer but why no Beasley? Why is Darko in the damn game? Rambis is not putting the best team on the court.
I haven't written an insightful post in years.
I agree with you 100%
Rambis doesn’t put his team in the best position to win. He doesn’t play matchups well, he never subs offense to defense, his play calling / plays out of timeouts are abysmal.
In this instance, though, and I only mentioned it because I think it’s something of an anomality, the players were as much at fault — 11 missed FTs, blown layups by WEllington, Bassy insisting on taking weak layups that were sent into the 2nd row by Bogut, Rindour blowing layups and trying to be the hero.
In some ways the team is a perfect storm — usually it’s the fact that they aren’t talented enough at 3 of the 5 positions (maybe 4 of the 5 positions) on the court. If it’s not that, then their coach has no clue. And when they are playing a team about as talented as them and the coach isn’t screwing the pooch, they still find a way to make enough bad/dumb plays to lose.
I suppose it's worth mentioning...
that last night’s game was competitive, and that wasn’t the case for the 5 previous games (other than the fluky first one, versus Houston), without one Supercool Beas.
Point differentials:
@ Houston (15-13) 02/08/11: +4
@ Indiana (15-12) 02/09/11: -11
Philadelphia (10-20) 02/12/11: -20
Portland (13-17) 02/14/11: -14
LA Clippers (5-22) 02/16/11: -8
@ Milwaukee (14-13) 02/22/11: -6
Those last three home games were particularly bad. Last night’s effort was closer to what we were seeing earlier in the year, in terms of competitiveness against a decent team.
Even if they lose by 10 every time, I enjoy watching the kid.
Not that I didn’t take a strange delight in seeing Corey Brewer too. But the talent and the buoyancy are both in short supply here.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
That stat about being 5-4 (or something like that)...
in Beasley’s 30-pointers makes some sense about how this team could maximize its chance of winning, on a given night. Force-feed Beasley the ball in situations that minimize possible turnovers. Worry less about his missed shots and more about Love’s offensive rebound opportunities and everyone else’s chance to catch their breath and work hard on defense. It’s not a recipe for contending, but maybe one for escaping the cellar of the league. With more and more reps, he’d develop better habits for drawing fouls and, maybe, finding open shooters.
I don't know, his usage is already high.
Michael needs to have some sort of conversion experience involving long twos early in the clock.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Some third-year comparisons. Lower usage, but similar shot frequency.
Actually, his shot frequency is probably lower, as there is no “FGA” for shots when the player is fouled. KD and Iverson were probably shooting more, and doing a better job of getting fouled.
Kind of a limited field, 3rd-year players who get this much of a green light.
Since 1995, there are 42 (real-minutes) seasons by 3rd-year pros with a usage above 27%.
I hate to be touching on the comparison, because he wasn’t my favorite player, but Michael and Glenn Robinson are the two lowest FTA players on that list.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
('Scuse me. Only 27 players.)
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Interesting list...
a lot of talent, there, and sorting through the various ranks, Beasley looks pretty good. At least in the middle for the big categories, aside from assists and free throw attempts. Also, I’d guess he’s younger than a fair amount of those guys were in their 3rd seasons.
Really interesting list.
Thanks for pointing this out. Not a lot of bad company here.
Caveat Emptor
One could probably put together of list of comparisons for Anthony Randolph that would look awfully good based on his first couple of years, too. And yet here we are, picking him up for not much.
Cases in point:
20 or younger, 18.5+ PER, 700+ minutes: 16 players, ever.
Based on his first two years’ overall PER and playing time: 18 players.
Garnett and Anthony Randolph, first two years’ worth of play combined.
(And for those about to respond with indignant cries (this means you Flagrant), I am referring you back to the title of this post. “Caveat Emptor” is my point.)
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
How do you feel about Jonathan Bender?
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Wow, Deron to the Nets
Crazy deal. Came out of nowhere. I love how the Nets drove up the price on ’Melo for the Knicks, then went out and got their own superstar.
Everything in the computer need my face on it. Mega Gigabytes, son!

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