Four Other Factors
by Oceanary on Feb 23, 2011 10:07 PM CST
Email
PrintDean Oliver, author of Basketball on Paper and former publisher of the Journal of Basketball Studies (he has since moved into a front office job with the Denver Nuggets), identified what he called the "Four Factors" teams need to win games.
- Shooting (40%)
- Turnovers (25%)
- Rebounding (20%)
- Free Throws (15%)
Whatever. It's the trade deadline, and there's just not much to say about the game that was just played. Zach Randolph is a bully in the low block (and I mean that in a very complimentary way) The Wolves again collectively struggled to find the bottom of the net (37% shooting) Rambis' rotations continue to puzzle (Hayward sits 3 games straight, then checks in just 5 minutes into this one?) And Anthony Randolph doesn't get off the bench at all. About the only thing noteworthy is that Kevin Love tied Moses Malone's record of 44 double-doubles.
Same-old-same-old, and honestly we'd probably rather talk about things like Deron Williams getting shipped to Newark (wonder what Jerry Sloan thinks of that). So, since we did just play the Memphis Grizzlies, we'll take a different track with tonight's game wrap and present to you four trade factors.
I've made no secret that I believe OJ Mayo should be a Timberwolf. Combine what we are able to realistically offer in a trade with what we need as a team, and it's so obvious it practically hurts.
If I have my way, tonight will be the first of many many consecutive games OJ Mayo plays at the Target Center. And if Hasheem Thabeet can join him, even better. This team needs them, and to kick off tonight's wrap, I'll give you my four reasons why.
1 - OJ Mayo is good. It's really that simple. Even with the regressive season he's having, he's still pretty much outperforming any Wolves wing not named Michael Beasley (Webster's close, but gets to be more selective and that negative asst/TO ratio is hard to stand if you want to call the guy a shooting guard). This team needs talent. This team needs production. OJ Mayo is talented and productive.
2 - This team also needs a shooting guard. Not a small forward with sketchy handles playing out of position. An honest-to-goodness shooting guard who can create and make shots and legitimately handle the ball. Ok, so Mayo doesn't do as much with his handles as he probably should. The point is, he has them, and they're better than Wes or Webster's figure to ever be.
3 - Thabeet can help this team without actively hurting it. This is in the same vein as S-n-P's idea to throw money at DeAndre Jordan (which is a really damn good idea, too). We're talking very small sample sizes with Thabeet because he commits too many fouls to stay on the court very long, but the projections on him are of a very good rebounder and shotblocker who can get a handful of buckets without needing anything called for him. He's not overwhelmingly athletic, but when you're 7'3" with a 7'6" wingspan, you don't really need to jump that high anyway. He figures to be productive and defensive minded without needing a high usage rate, which is perfect for this team.
4 - Ricky Rubio. This team can only help their own case by getting better. We're, by record, the second worst team in the league, in a very small and very cold market. Think Ricky might be daydreaming about teaming up with Melo and Stoudemire? I'd say it's a pretty safe bet. The Wolves may hold Rubio's draft rights, but they don't hold his commitment, and one has to figure that the lack of winning...or even the potential to win...is playing a big, big part in that. This team needs to start winning now, not later, because the Spanish Sensation is going to care about results, not promises. The worst thing this team can do is sit tight, lose a ton more games, slog through a draft with little potential, leave a lasting negative impression by getting hit with a lockout, then try to convince Rubio things are getting better. I wouldn't believe that, you wouldn't believe that, and I bet Ricky won't believe it either.
I don't know if Mayo will ever be the superstar he was billed as pre-draft day. But I do believe he's good enough to actively change this team's fortunes for the better, and that's worth pursuing in my book. Yes? No? Have something else in mind entirely? If the Wolves are going to make a move, they've got 24 hours to do so. What say you?
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he's still pretty much outperforming any Wolves wing not named Michael Beasley
I don’t think that this counts as proof that anyone is “good.”
Apparently, that happens all the time in the NBA.
Everything in the computer need my face on it. Mega Gigabytes, son!
In 09-10, Mayo nearly hit the averages in PER and WS/48
While putting up strong shooting numbers, moving the ball, and cutting down on turnovers. He’s also just 21, and has shown enough to believe that he’ll get better
So in his 3 years of regression he had one where he was almost average
Excellent, go get him Kahn!
In all seriousness, if he comes cheap you do it, if not you walk away. Mayo isn’t as good as you seem to think but he’d provide something with this team.
Define "improved"
Because he played the same minutes while lowering his PPG, his FT% and his FTAs. I mean, kudos to him for upping his FG% a whole 2 points but I wouldn’t exactly call it much of an improvement.
He improved both his PER and WS/48
As well as his TS% and eFG%. He also maintained nearly the same scoring rate, and posted the same assists average and fewer turnovers, all with a much reduced usage rate. His base numbers basically stayed the same while his efficiency went up
But he didn't actually improve
I gave him kudos for upping his efficiency, which should be expected with his somewhat diminished role that year, but he didn’t get to the line any better, didn’t up his AST% nor improve his defence.
Improving efficiency is improving as a player
But even allowing that, at worse, he played at the same level, which was solid. He was one of only 10 guards to average at least 17 points, 4 rebounds and 3 assists that year, and again was within a margin of 1 of hitting the league averages in PER and WS/48
So scoring the same amount of points on fewer possession doesn't equal getting better?
Please please think before you type next time. Clearly this means that one of his teammates has an extra opportunity to score (and yes, that’s a good thing).
Or it means he became a spot up shooter
Which, if you go to 82games and see the huge increase in his jumpshots being assisted, you would see.
When I think of improvement I think of getting better. Mayo improved his efficiency by becoming a smaller part of the offence…HOORAY! But he still didn’t get to the line any better, or create for his teammates, and he actually got a little worse defensively. So where, exactly, did he “improve”?
So what is it you are arguing?
Do you not want to make a trade that if nothing else is kind of an upgrade?
Like if we could go, Flynn/Webster or something for Thabeet/Mayo you would rather have Flynn/Webster? Heck I’d throw Darko in there.
It’s such a low risk trade that even if you are right and OJ Mayo indeed will continue to regress….what’s the harm? We trade two guys that can’t get off our bench?
I love the idea of giving either Deandre Jordan or Kendrick Perkins tons of money, over paying like crazy…cause they’ll take it
All this talk is futile until we get a new coach though
I'm not really sure
that nearly being average equals being good.
It's semantics at that point
Entirely depends on what you define as good. Being within 1 of the league averages is good, in my book.
Point being, even with the tough season he’s having, he is still better than any of the wings we have now. He’s an improvement. If we can take a couple of the guys below him and turn them into him, why not?
How though?
Statistically it shows he’s below the league average. Unless the average player you find in the league is “good”, I don’t see how Mayo would qualify.
He's barely below the league average
Close enough that you can basically say he’s at the average. His PER in 09-10 was 14.6, which is 0.4 below the set average of 15
If being in the 14-16 PER range isn’t good, then there are a lot of players who aren’t good. Marc Gasol, Mike Conley, Tayshaun Prince, Jason Terry, Darren Collison, Wes Matthews, Luke Ridnour, Luol Deng, Jrue Holiday, Jameer Nelson, Dorell Wright, Stephen Jackson, Gerald Wallace, Rip Hamilton, Jason Kidd, Carl Landry, James Harden, Tyreke Evans, George Hill, Landry Fields, Rudy Fernandez….all players in that range. If you’re saying OJ Mayo wasn’t good, then you’re basically saying none of them are either
"league average" is weighted by minutes played.
Since 75%+ of the minutes comes from starters, anyone who is at league average is producing at about the level of a starter.
If you average over players instead of minutes, the “average player” typically comes in at around 60-80% of the league average mark, for most “combined production” metrics.
He's actually 23 years old
He turned 20 right around the time he played his first game as a freshman for USC. He is four months younger than Wes, though.
by Are we cursed? on Feb 24, 2011 9:55 AM CST up reply actions
Rubio! Rubio!
where art thou Rubio?
Just a thought: what if he ends up a bust (not a bust in the mouth, mind you)?
The only thing we are hanging on from the 2009 draft is Rubio now. We probably won’t get much from ridding ourselves of Flynn over than addition by subtraction.
Dingus Kahn, it's over
If he turns out to be a bust
than we simply trade him somewhere else, and then trade for him again.
As a reclamation project
The cock is our friend------------if the minute hand sweeps faster.-BaylorWest
by thewild_viking_twins on Feb 23, 2011 10:21 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Rubio
Just a thought: what if he ends up a bust
I really think the odds of Rubio being a bust are pretty damn small. He will be, at a minimum, a serviceable NBA point guard.
The big concern is if he is that transcendent super star that we need to carry us forward toward contender status. I think that is very much in doubt based on his stagnant development the last 2 years. (He is still very good handling the ball, seeing the floor, help side defense, still not very good at shooting, on the ball defense)
Now the cherry – there were (maybe still are) a few clubs that are convinced that Rubio will be a super star. Should we take advantage of that belief and make a trade for assets that might be more of a sure thing?
I would have traded him back 2 years ago – just before the Olympics – when his stock was super hot. I just don’t see him in that super star role and I am betting we could have gotten 2 or 3 really solid assets for his rights. But as SnP has said – Kahn is all in on Rubio – so it was not even considered.
If the search is for a superstar...
(and it should be) we only should have traded him, or only should trade him now, if we’re bringing in assets that either are or could lead to a better chance at landing a superstar. The name kicked around in ‘08 was Wilson Chandler — obviously not fitting the bill, there. I’m sure there were other possibilities (was Houston involved with an Aaron Brooks proposal at one point?) but probably nothing too exciting in terms of a huge talent for Rubio. My guess is that a Rubio-Love package could land the Wolves a bona fide superstar, such as the ones that just went to the East Coast. Rubio alone shouldn’t be worth more than a good draft pick or a collection of young role players, like we already have. Keep him and let’s find out for ourselves what he’s worth.
At the time
we had feelers that included a combination of younger players plus lottery type picks.
So, if you really were not sure that Rubio was a superstar to build around, would it not be smarter to take assets that could be used immediately in the rebuilding process? That was my take. (Assuming, of course, that we used the draft choices for BPA type picks – a big assumption as we all know)
I think it is damn near impossible to build a team around a player who is not even on the roster. Some of the mess we have right now, on the court, is a direct result of that effort. Has made for a couple of years of pretty poor basketball watching – and it still very uncertain if we have the foundation pieces yet to move forward.
I guess it just depends...
on the players and the picks. I like what Utah got for D-Will, although he’s obviously better than Rubio, too.
You’re right about building around an absent player. Making it worse was passing on Curry and Jennings for the Flynn spot, but whatever, that gets discussed enough.
I think the days of hoping for a superstar trade...
…at a non Super Friends destination are over. I side with the players on most CBA issues but I really, really, really hope the new deal makes it hard for Super Friends to exist. I think it’s terrible for the league. Absolutely terrible. In the current environment, the draft is the only way for teams like the Wolves to make it happen.
My worry with Rubio is not that he won’t be serviceable; rather, it’s that he cannot possibly meet expectations (i.e. the Rubio Bubble). Even if they were presented with a trade for the kid that was equitable, I think they’d pass simply because Rubio represents something to the remaining fan base. Go back and look at that draft thread. It was irrational exuberance. Myself included. Then Kahn and Rambis went and tried to build a team around the idea of Rubio. I think the Wolves might be the first team in pro sports history to build around the idea of a player that isn’t in the league.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
. . . that isn't in the league . . .
. . . and has made no firm commitment to play for the team at some date in the future.
Less than 24 hours until the Trading Deadline arrives!
Jesus,
don’t bring that up. I was up all night learning how to say, “Please forgive me” in Spanish.
Less than 24 hours until the Trading Deadline arrives!
You're 12 years old, or so I hear. You should ask a teacher at school to teach you.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Someday, I will be 12,
and I will enlighten the world with a commentary that will blow your freakin’ minds.
Less than 24 hours until the Trading Deadline arrives!
Publish it in Spanish. Ricky could be won over.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Will it be called
Meditations of a Minion? &&
"Humor is reason gone mad." Marx (Groucho, for the reason-gone-mad impaired)
With a basketball subtext in the subtitle:
Meditations of a Minion:
Center of my Own Attention
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
"An Unauthorized Autobiography"
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
It's a literary device: The Flawed Narrator.
David Kahn will write the forward.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Nice!
Thank you! I’m putting you down for fift . . . ten percent!
Of the profits. The net profits.
Less than 24 hours until the Trading Deadline arrives!
Is the currency in Lindens?
CH is certainly starting to feel a little like “Second Life,” though without the avatars.
"Humor is reason gone mad." Marx (Groucho, for the reason-gone-mad impaired)
The hope, I guess...
is that Rubio is exceptional at creating open shots for teammates. If that’s the case, a team built around the likes of Wes Johnson and Kevin Love might just work. Luke Ridnour is (much) better than Jonny Flynn, but his most-successful teams included Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis, who could create shots for themselves.
The "Superfriends" haven't proven anything yet.
I mentioned this elsewhere, but all the hand-wringing about the Super Friends thing is based on one team, which basically planned for a few (lackluster, painful) years running to time its contracts out together in order to have the cap space to do something like that, and which was willing to do things like deal away Mike Beasley for two second-rounders in order to pry the cap open that much further, and which has won nothing yet.
The nearest comparison I can think of to what Miami did last summer is the Jerry West nuking of the Lakers roster in order to sign Shaq – which happened without Max Player restrictions on salary, and which got L.A. championships partly because they also acquired Kobe in the draft that year.
Both examples were in destination cities for free agency. I’m not sure how Minnesota and Cleveland can change that.
The CBA may tighten things to the point where this is less likely to happen, but maybe we need not to get too upset yet, you know?
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
That whole Knicks thing
is (I think) going to be the beginning of the end of the “HEY WE SHOULD GET A BAND TOGETHER!!” thing. They likely can’t pay another star to come, and if/when STAT goes down and out, that team could be worse than the Timberwolves.
Less than 24 hours until the Trading Deadline arrives!
I think it will go through Howard and CP3
Rose and Durant will hopefully provide a stop gap to the madness.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
Chicago...
has really gone about things the right way, since landing Derrick Rose.
Of course, it was a complete joke that they landed Rose in the first place — they were completely falling apart with big contracts before that bit of lottery luck.
My two favorite teams
to watch in the playoffs will be the Bulls and the Thundermen.
Assuming the Wolves don’t make it.
Less than 24 hours until the Trading Deadline arrives!
They wanted a different lead singer for their band.
If anything the Knicks were even more dogged about preparing for their FA bids. They gutted the roster, they gutted future picks too, and what did they get? If that’s a second-round playoff team in the east, and they suffered for three years running to accomplish that in a city that should be able to bring top talent, ouch.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
It hasn't proven anything yet..
….but I don’t think that wins and losses are all its about. I think it’s about a bunch of guys who like each other and want to be brand-identified businessmen as well as basketball stars. I think it’s as much about things that are off the court than on. That’s just my metaphysical take on the matter.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
That sort of "friendship first" value system may be a little like Glen Taylor's loyalism.
It may end up producing reactions that are rather unlike those intended up front.
Glen, who loves his handshakes and local banks as you say and who clearly did see himself and KG as bound to a loyal relationship, wound up shipping Garnett out, buying out a bunch of his own kept (over-signed) free agents, churning the roster for multiple years running… He’s made some gratuitously critical remarks about KG after the trade, too. All starting from the “Loyal to those who are loyal to me” seed.
Sometimes you might not want to be roommates with your best friends. Especially if, a couple of years in, you turn out not to have won anything. We’ll see I guess.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
I just hope that all of the Super Friends...
….get their own reality shows so we can watch the fun when it all falls apart. I think the Knicks will be especially fun to watch implode.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
Well, anticipatory schaudenfraude from a fan of a team that will struggle for 20 wins
seems a bit silly to me.
I’d trade our situation for the Knicks’ (not mention 25 other teams) in a New York minute.
I say SHONDA you say WOLVES" SHONDA! WOLVES!
by Eric in Madison on Feb 24, 2011 10:52 AM CST up reply actions
Oh, definitely
I’d much rather have winning dysfunction than losing dysfunction.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
Erm, not really for the Knicks, myself.
At least Miami has one star player who’s home-raised.
(The Spree/Sammy supporting cast around KG actually put me off some too, even with Garnett.)
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Not only the idea of Rubio
but the idea of Rubio when there is a great chance he’s no better than an average NBA player………. Scary.
My favorite moment of the night
was Sam Young dribbling off of his foot.
Everything in the computer need my face on it. Mega Gigabytes, son!
Allow me to formally introduce
a new Canis Hoopus-ism. “You know you’re a bad team”
You know you’re a bad team when the best part of your night is watching someone else f*** things up for a change!
The cock is our friend------------if the minute hand sweeps faster.-BaylorWest
by thewild_viking_twins on Feb 23, 2011 10:24 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
You know you're a bad team...
When she’s watching Top Chef in the 2nd quarter and you don’t say sh!t about it.
by fanslaststand on Feb 23, 2011 11:05 PM CST up reply actions
You know you're a bad team when
The homework sitting next to you starts looking attractive
I'm Trill, I'm running w/ the WOLVES
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Feb 23, 2011 11:31 PM CST up reply actions
rec'd
can’t wait for the next "You know you’re a bad team"
watchin pornos on the ipad...thats really raw
by big_p.a.w.z. on Feb 24, 2011 8:20 AM CST up reply actions
Along those lines, the Baron Davis - Mo Williams trade last night consoles me some.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Not me
for me it was Bassy along the baseline completely oblivious to where the ball was and having it end up in his hands.
For a moment, he didn’t know how to react and froze. Then he dribbled the ball up the court.
Dingus Kahn, it's over
You must have missed
the fact that Young threw him to the floor, and that’s how he happened to be in the right spot.
At this point, I'm willing to try anything.
How much worse could it get? Mayo has proven he’s a legitimate player and would fill a huge need.
Thabeet? Well, you can’t teach height. He reminds me of Mark Eaton, a 7-3 center who played for Utah back in the 80s. He couldn’t jump over a dime and had no offensive game, but was effective at clogging the lane. The Jazz coaches worked with him on cutting down on fouls and he became a decent player. Thabeet is way more athletic and could still become a solid role player.
Do you know what the Lama says? Gunga galunga... gunga, gunga-lagunga.
That's kind of my thinking
Why not?
What do we have to lose?
If it bombs, oh well, just start planning our next failure
The cock is our friend------------if the minute hand sweeps faster.-BaylorWest
by thewild_viking_twins on Feb 23, 2011 10:26 PM CST up reply actions
The fouls don't concern me too much
Most big men struggle with that early in their careers these days. Most work through it with time and experience
My least favorite moment of the night
was the “What Would You Do For a Klondike Bar?” thing, where one guy covered his body in honey. That was creepy.
Everything in the computer need my face on it. Mega Gigabytes, son!
I would think that just paying money to watch this team...
would qualify one for shares of stock in the Klondike company, much less one bar
Do you know what the Lama says? Gunga galunga... gunga, gunga-lagunga.
I had trouble explaining that one to my 4-year old daughter.
Check out Humdinger TV on YouTube.
http://twitter.com/HumdingerTV
by HumdingerTV on Feb 23, 2011 10:44 PM CST up reply actions
At least he didn't eat cat food.
"They are exactly where we were," Thunder coach Scott Brooks said. "We were in a lot of close games. The year we won 23 games, that's what the learning is all about. You're learning. You're not losing. Unfortunately, the record says you lost the game, but they're learning how to win and they will figure it out."
Must confess
I was reading this thinking, “Man, SnP is so positive tonight.” Then I realized it was Oceanary. Kind of funny moment.
Some good ideas here.
This thread is way too depressing
is this where we set our sights?
With the Randolph trade aren’t we already leading the league in “Guys who just may get it someday”? And while I can almost accept that as the reality, I’m over jonesing for any more reclamation projects. Give me someone who can actually freakin’ play. Right now.
This is where we set our sights
It’s realistic. We’d be fooling ourselves to think Kahn might actually pull off a blockbuster. Nothing in his history suggest he can grab anything beyond the bargain bin. He’s a bottom feeder.
I’d love to get a Monta Ellis. I also know trading for a Monta Ellis is beyond this team’s capacity.
Mayo’s still a good player. It’s not like Randolph where you only get numbers if you project him out over 36 minutes. Mayo actually, legitimately averaged 18ppg his first two seasons. He’s having a tough year now, yes, but that doesn’t mean he’s lost it. He’s young, in a tough situation, and there’s plenty to like about his game.
Warriors aren't trading Ellis
So it’s more on them then it is on us for not trading for him.
And besides, the guy is an undersized scoring guard that doesn’t play defence and isn’t a point guard. I know he’s impressive statistically and he ripped this team to shreds but what’s the long term benefit with him around? Especially considering some of the off court issues he’s had over the years.
Briefly
the benefit is that (assuming Rubio is who the team hopes) Ellis balances the the backcourt, brings the scoring, penetration and shooting. He can play PG to back up Rubio, but at the SG spot can still make assists at a high rate. He replaces Beasley as the alpha scorer (and he is better at that role) and opens the SF spot for a defensive minded forward that can help compliment our front court deficiencies. But I’ve said all that before.
But you effectively freeze out Rubio
He can’t shoot, so with a ballhog like Ellis what exactly does he do? Plus he’s arguably worse defensively then what we already have, which is impressive if you think about it, and really isn’t a point guard either.
The defensive scheme
does resemble a “huddled mass.”
Less than 24 hours until the Trading Deadline arrives!
That's the problem!
Nobody on the team speaks the same language. Damn.
I say SHONDA you say WOLVES" SHONDA! WOLVES!
by Eric in Madison on Feb 24, 2011 7:42 AM CST up reply actions
Mayo is average
but where I really take exception is Thabeet. How can anyone watch him out there and think he has anything to offer at all. It’s more of the same ridiculous daydreaming about physical potential meaning anything at all. In fact, given the daydream of athleticism over actual skill, it’s hard to understand the enthusiasm for Mayo, who is not impressive in terms of size or athleticism. Does Mayo make the team better? Marginally, I’d guess. And to me, that SG spot is crucial on this team. The answer will not come at SF, not with the players we have on the team that the FO sees as “investments” We need someone good enough to force a move of Wes off the 2, to move Beas to the bench to anchor a 2nd unit.
Like I said, it'd be nice...
…but it’s not happening. Kahn can’t pull it off, and Taylor wouldn’t pay for it even if he could. The type of shooting guard you’re talking about is both scarce in availability and expensive to acquire
The team's not good enough
to get away with having its second best player coming off the bench. If we don’t want him starting, we’d be better off trading him now for someone that we do want starting.
Just so we're all aware ...
We all know there isn’t going to be any other trades, right? Kahn and the Wolves have made their “move” and this is what we have to look at for the rest of the season …. so we can all go to sleep and keep our hopes down.
FYI, and all.
Visit us at http://www.purplejesusdiaries.com for horrible Vikings coverage!
Raja Bell?!?!?!?!?!
I’m wetting my pants. He’s so dreamy. He’s worth a top 6 draft pick. He’s even worth Jonny Flynn’s smile, which is also dreamy!
The world is made for people who aren't cursed with self-awareness
by Victor Mature on Feb 23, 2011 11:02 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
"Trying" vs. "Succeeding"
Are two different things. He may talk about trying to to lots of stuff, but we all know nothing is going to happen by the trade deadline for the Wolves. I’m resigned myself to that fact. Sadly. With tears. And beer.
Visit us at http://www.purplejesusdiaries.com for horrible Vikings coverage!
Think we should save our pennies until after the new CBA
If there is a radical change (and there will be), we should have max money available to great a great SG who is after the money. We may have to overpay, but we can find a great player then, and not give up any assets now. We spend the rest of this season playing the kids, and earning the ping-pong balls. Not much fun for us, but good for the long haul.
Plus we’ll know what happens in the draft (I assume the draft happens during a lockout???).
Here’s a list
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=FreeAgents-11-12
Do you just ignore the obvious signs
that Glen isn’t going to spend any money until revenue improves, or do you simply not see them?
Less than 24 hours until the Trading Deadline arrives!
I don't think Glen is going to have a choice soon
But in my world, this whole personal computer fad is going away in 2011, and everyone is going to have to go out and order fancy invitations again. It will be a return to simpler times.
by Rodman99 on Feb 23, 2011 11:31 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
This is the best
and most likely plan for improvement that I have yet to read.
THE MINNESOTA AMISH!
Less than 24 hours until the Trading Deadline arrives!
It's
a goat bladder.
Less than 24 hours until the Trading Deadline arrives!
by PoorDick on Feb 24, 2011 12:05 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I knew Corey wasn't taking that pet goat to NYC
c
"Humor is reason gone mad." Marx (Groucho, for the reason-gone-mad impaired)
Team Blue Shirt is getting that offensive board.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Which is the kind of thing
that makes me wonder how Glen Taylor ever got to be a billionaire. He’s got to realize that revenues aren’t going to improve until he starts fielding a competent team, and that’s not going to happen unless he starts spending some money.
That's a fair take
I don’t think Taylor will shell out to make it follow through, but I see the logic
My motivation for doing something now is really the Rubio factor. Otherwise I’d probably go with standing pat too. But we’ve got to show Ricky progress. If we don’t….and then give him a whole year of locked out non-basketball to think about it….I think we really risk having him demand out of the situation
Broussard just said on ESPN
that Flynn wants out as badly as the Wolves want him out…weird to hear that.
Most of the fans don't like him. Kurt doesn't like him. He's not winning.
Why would he want to be here?
Everything in the computer need my face on it. Mega Gigabytes, son!
Yeah, I know.
Its just interesting to hear. As if Flynn has any say in the matter.
Maybe he thinks because he went to 'Cuse, he has the same level of pull as
Carmelo Anthony
Everything in the computer need my face on it. Mega Gigabytes, son!
In a way, I blame Flynn
less than I do Kahn. Of course Flynn’s dissatisfied.—he is who we thought he was, but for some reason Kahn saw something else. When the Wolves try to turn Jonny into someone he is not, it isn’t going to work. Darko’s the next unreclaimable reclamation project to walk out of the league in disgust, and Wes will go to the bench shortly after that.
Hopefully a new coach and GM will arrive in the meantime, who can actually see players’ strengths and weaknesses, and design a system around them. Until then, it’s Kahn and Rambis trying ram round pegs into square holes.
Less than 24 hours until the Trading Deadline arrives!
Do you just ignore the obvious signs
that Glen isn’t going to spend any money on a new coach and GM until revenue improves, or do you simply not see them?
Kahn and Rambis
are easier to get rid of than Jonny Flynn. and less costly to replace (although, after the last go-round of Wolves’ hiring debacles, I"m a little concerned that there could be even worse candidates out ther than th ones we currently have).
Less than 24 hours until the Trading Deadline arrives!
We at least know that Charles would play Kevin Love a lot.
Everything in the computer need my face on it. Mega Gigabytes, son!
Yes, I think any of these guys,
or even picking BPA every year and letting the players decide who plays and how, can get several seasons of lottery-bound basketball.
Less than 24 hours until the Trading Deadline arrives!
Letting the players decide...
it worked in A League of Their Own.
Everything in the computer need my face on it. Mega Gigabytes, son!
I do think one change in culture should be
To learn to cut our losses and move on. Historically, if you look at the bad picks (or simply bad fits) who lingered far too long (Rashad McAnts, Ebi, etc.), our team has been hurt a lot by that. Good teams do that. The simple reality is that even good teams miss quite a lot with their picks.
Flynn may bounce back from his injury, but he’ll still be a bad fit for what we are trying to do (so will Rubio). Probably is time to move them.
Just like it was time to move Brewer and Kosta.
It'll be nice when the phrase "cutting out losses"
actually refers to our win-loss total.
Everything in the computer need my face on it. Mega Gigabytes, son!
They've done a lot of cutting already
and it hasn’t helped. The losses that should be cut quickly are the guys in the ties, not the ones in the short pants.
Less than 24 hours until the Trading Deadline arrives!
The trouble I have with NBA coaches & execs
Is I hate most of them. So if I knew there was some great exec around the corner, I’d be more eager to pull the trigger (lame reasoning I know).
Steve Kerr? Didn’t he bring Shaq to Phoenix and give away first round picks like hotcakes? Pritchard? Didn’t he draft Odon? You can poke holes in most of the guys. Even Donnie Walsh has had shitty drafts (Jordon Hill instead of Lawson or Jennings).
Most coaches suck too. That’s why I focus on great players. A guard/player who could score at the end of games would override a whole lotta coaching incompitance.
Anyone see Melo highlights? You can mock his efficiency, but in crunch time he buried the shots needed for victory. We’d have so many more victories if we had that. No matter what Rambis did.
In Kerr's defense...
…he actually didn’t make basically any of the moves the Suns made under his watch. Pretty much everything that happened there was Sarver’s doing, and Kerr just got caught in the unfortunate situation of being the guy who had to make the phone calls. He didn’t have any real say in it.
Good to know... unsavory business
Must be how Donnie Walsh felt after the Melo trade (meaning how he was forced to add all those players).
Ya, it was pretty bad
I felt sorry for the guy because it became obvious what was happening after the fact, but at the time it made no sense and Kerr was taking ownership of it all
Smartest thing he did was bail out when it became apparent Stoudemire wasn’t going to be resigned. That put all the cost-cutting nonsense squarely on Sarver’s shoulders for everyone to see
The problem with this line of thinking
is that what we’re trying to do now probably won’t be what we’re trying to 6-8 months from now after Rambis has been fired.
Just a handshake and a smile
That draft pick is POISON!
by RedCandyStripedPants on Feb 23, 2011 11:38 PM CST reply actions
Ha!
That pick is poison . . .
You are a little soul carrying a corpse. --Epictetus
by Cynical Jason on Feb 24, 2011 12:00 AM CST up reply actions
this board makes me want to cry
in a manly way….
but seriously. can we please just hit the refresh button on this franchise? bring in a new owner (yeah right) a new coach (how about sloan? just kidding) a new gm (kerr. seriously. why hasnt this ever been thought of?) and team. I want so badly for the wolves to be good. I was born into loving this team, and the only good lasting memories i have gained from this relationship?? The 2003 season and Kevin Love’s 30-30…
On another note
can someone with good editing skills replace milk with johnny flynn in this video. it would be funny, and quite fitting:
I think the Wolves really need to do the real life version of Eddie.
SnP can be GM. Oceanary can be coach. PoorDick can be in charge of arena security. They’ll probably work cheaper than the current guys and we already know they’d be better. It’s a win-win for Glen Taylor.
Everything in the computer need my face on it. Mega Gigabytes, son!
And you can replace DJ Mad whatever and/or fake Wally
"Pinch-bunters don't have a ton of value, even with the Twins"
by Steven Ellingson on Feb 24, 2011 12:32 AM CST up reply actions
Sign me up
for Director of Player Development : )
I wanna be team doctor.
Walking boots for everyone!
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Nuggetgeddon?
Broussard tweets…
Sources say Clippers dangling 1st round pick from Minny to Denver for Gallinari. Pick is Top 10 protected in 2011, unprotected in 2012.
Gallinari on the Clippers would be pretty sweet
Sticking him between Griffin and Eric Gordon gives that team a ton of firepower and makes them really entertaining to watch
Would be a great fit for him
He thrives when he doesn’t have to carry the team.
He was born to be a great glue guy
Shades of Detlef Schrempf, in my opinion. I’m hopeful whatever team he lands with will give him some good run with the ball, because I feel he has a really good playmaking ability that was badly underutilized in New York
This Lakers-Blazers game is very entertaining.
Kobe just hit a big shot in OT.
Everything in the computer need my face on it. Mega Gigabytes, son!
I forgot to add the requisite
“but Kobe still isn’t clutch!” part.
Everything in the computer need my face on it. Mega Gigabytes, son!
This is my soapbox moment of the day
Guys who drain big shots are a teams biggest asset. Even if they are 5 for 20 in the game.
No stat will ever convince me otherwise.
Kobe, Melo, Rose. Guys like that just make huge shots.
That’s the number one thing a team needs. And it’s one thing we don’t have.
Fun fact of the day
The Timberwolves are now on their 5th losing streak of at least 6 games.
And this is the 7th losing streak of at least 5 games.
OK - I just can't take Darko any more
I just can’t. I was relatively happy that he returned in the fall. I ate up the propaganda that the Tricycle was a good fit, that he was a decent passer, and that we had a 10-6 center who could D up on a reasonable contract.
But tonight was the end. I just cannot stand watching the guy any more. The constant turnovers after practically an entire year of consistent ball feeds in the right box. The #$#$#@ soft put backs that he misses 80% of the time when he could dunk with a little more effort.
I’d love to dump Darko & Flynn for an expiring contract, but I don’t think there is a team in the league that would take Darko’s contract at this point.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Feb 24, 2011 12:28 AM CST reply actions 6 recs
So much potential never realized
I can’t believe this but I’m in the same boat, and I’ve supported Darko all year. Last night was just unacceptable, though. I had courtside seats so his crap was even worse.
DUNK THE DAMN BALL DARKO
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 24, 2011 8:25 AM CST up reply actions
Litel tweeted that the fans over the tunnel really got on Rambis after the game
How much longer can this last? Will we start seeing “Fire Rambis” signs in the crowd?
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
Lipoli on the ESPN boards had two interesting comments
- Both Kahn and Glen were not in attendance, and both are always there
- Love and Rambis apparently had an angry exchange after the game
SnP or JAF – any info you can share on either one?
If Rambis will be fired in the summer anyway – dump him now. He is just poisoning the well with Love, who could take a very sour attitude towards extension talks this summer as a result.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
this thread just got even more depressing
"Wes [Johnson] is old, passive, and below-average in every aspect of his game except outside shooting and smiling" - PoorDick
Love's streak
Our record before the streak 4-10.
During the streak 9-35.
by Rodman99 on Feb 24, 2011 6:18 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Slightly better
What’s your point? It’s just percentage points better
Oooops never mind
My quick math is bad….go team
Agreed about Love
I’m so terrified he will leave in free agency.
Which is my primary reason for opting to trade him now and try and get Al Horford for him….just so you have something….It just feels like he’s gonna leave, maybe if we got a good coach he’d stay though
"Kevin Love continued his streak and the bench played a pivotal role in tonight's loss to the Grizzlies."
From the T-Wolves Facebook page update. I love how that reads – bench plays pivotal role in loss. lol
Do you know what the Lama says? Gunga galunga... gunga, gunga-lagunga.
"Yup just confirmed @daldridgent's report. Davis and Clippers 1st in 2011 to Cleveland for Mo Williams and Jamario Moon. Done in principle"
From Chad Ford’s Twitter page.
Do you know what the Lama says? Gunga galunga... gunga, gunga-lagunga.
I missed the game tonight
Did Rambis really have Love on Zbo?
He tried everyone on Z-bo
Love, Darko, Tolliver, Pek….it wasn’t going to matter, honestly. Randolph was a man on a mission tonight
Who the hell else is supposed to guard him?
Do we really have to cover for him against every decent PF in the game? He’s an All-Star putting up historic numbers.
by Rodman99 on Feb 24, 2011 6:31 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Mayo is alright
I don’t really love this core, though:
Rubio
Mayo
Beasley
Love
??
If that is your 1-4, you better pray that Beasley figures out efficiency and defense. Same with Mayo. It could work if things come together like we hope they will, but I have serious doubts about it.
2011 Draft Targets: H. Barnes, K. Irving, P. Jones, Jonas V.
Fire Kahn!
Well A) it is better than what it currently would be
and B) it’s not like we won’t have a draft pick this summer? I’m still hoping that Harrison Barnes can slide into that 2 guard role after he’s ready, then you sign Deandre Jordan or Ken Perkins and have them play the 5
then it’s not looking too bad ya know?
who would we offer for Mayo?
I’d do it for Flynn and Memphis or Utah’s 1st. Would they accept that? I’m hoping the Wolves land Kryie Irving in the draft, and per SnP’s suggestion, go after Nick Young. Or if he’s too expensive, maybe Arron Aflalo or Mike Dunleavy?
Well with the Ford report that the Wolves where shopping their pick this summer
I thought, maybe Javale Mcgee and Nick Young for the pick might be interesting, I don’t know if you ever want to trade a potential 1st overal pick even in a weaker draft
The whole Darko experiment is over
He is what he is, a bench player. He’s so wildly inconsistent he can’t start. Kahn has a strange idea about players and development. He feels that guys like Darko & Webster who have been in the league for 5, 6 years are going to blossom into stars. I have serious doubts about Randolph, he can’t play for Mike Di in NY, who’ll play anybody who can score.
by Conned on Feb 24, 2011 7:45 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Give up tangible assets for Mayo and Thabeet or...
Word is that the Knicks will cut Balkman, Azubuike, or Carter to make a roster spot for Earl Barron. Get Azubuike. If you need to grease the wheels to make it happen, send Flynn to NY for Azubuike and cash to pay for their buyout of whomever. More importantly, since cutting one of these players was discussed before the Melo trade, why did Kahn not get Azubuike back when sending Brewer to NY?
Did it work
in the deal? If not, isn’t he an expiring, anyway? I would guess he’ll try to sign on with a pseudo-contender for now, and then try his luck in the looonnnnnng offseason.
Less than 24 hours until the Trading Deadline arrives!
Azubuike is injured, but yes, he'd be among our top wings the second he was active.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Word is he's close to returning
And I think he is an expiring. Don’t know which of the 3 the Knicks would cut. Azubuike has the highest salary, I don’t know if that makes him more or less likely to be bought out. Since he is coming back from injury, I don’t know what the market for him on a contender would be if he was cut. Importantly, he could be available for nothing, and it would not be hard to argue that he has been a better player than Mayo over their careers. And less of a dick.
Are the Knicks really so deep right now?
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
The Wolves have two wins in February
If they run the table for the rest of the month (2 games), they’ll have 4 wins in February.
I’ve been all gloom and doom on this team since basically the beginning of Kahn’s tenure, and especially so after last year’s draft, but the utter lack of improvement as the season has progressed is something even I did not predict (particularly given the tougher schedule at the beginning). I just can’t believe that this level of performance is acceptable to anyone at this stage.
My two cents:
I think the Wolves need to fire Rambis and put Lambier in the drivers seat. Rambis is not Phil Jackson, I think we can all close the book on that comparison. Depending on draft position, the Wolves need to find a way to draft Kyrie Irving. The dude is a legit PG that can shoot and run be a floor general. And chances are he’d be happier in MN than Ricky Rubio. Then lets use the following players and/or draft picks to aquire a legit SG and defensive-minded C: Rubio, Darko, Flynn, Webster, Telfair and Randolph. Make it happen, Kahn.
Thoughts?
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