Can You Smell What The Stern Is Cooking?!
by Stop-n-Pop on Mar 1, 2011 9:46 PM CST
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PrintDoes SB Nation have a WWE blog? Do I even need to write a game wrap about this one? Was there any doubt about what would happen? The Lakers slog through the 1st half (hey, there's Joe Smith on the bench!) while complaining non-stop to the refs about the calls and exerting very little to zero effort.
At the half, Phil Jackson finds time to pick his head up from Jeanie Buss's Twitter feed on his BlackBerry to give a thrilling Gipper-esque speech: "Guys. For sh%ts sake. Guys."
How zen.
The Lakers then come out with no noticeable extra energy but amazingly their tackling defense is tighter and their non-stop bitching aggressiveness pays off with trip after trip after trip to the line. The fans at the Target Center reward the World Champs for their half-assed valant road effort with an relative smattering avalanche of cheers. The Laker announcers gush about Minnesota Nice.
Wes Johnson played his ass off tonight. On both ends of the court he outplayed the cartoonishly coasting (on everything) Kobe Bryant and he was rewarded with 6 ridiculous foul calls, a smirking Bryant, and a lesson in how the NBA is rigged really works for the wrestlers with the fancy intros big name teams and players.
Ugh, sometimes I just don't know about this league anymore. That was a really, really tough game to take seriously, let alone make it all the way through the 2nd half without wanting to go do laundry or wash the dishes. At least the game finished in time for me to turn off the Twitter feed before the Charlie Sheen nonsense started.
Random thoughts:
- On the good side of things, Wes Johnson continued his recent streak of good play with an eFG over 50%, 8 rebounds, and no turnovers. He also played excellent defense on Kobe Bryant and when Bryant wasn't calling his own fouls in the 2nd half, Johnson clearly had his number.
- Jonny Flynn had 0 turnovers. He even played well in the first half. We'll leave it at that. Actually, there was a play in the 2nd half where Flynn dribbled down the court and attempted to run a 2 man game with Love. The problem was that the entire action was run within 8 feet of the sideline. Meanwhile, the other 3 guys were just standing around. Love was left on the wing being guarded by (I think) Lamar Odom while his point guard was shut in the corner and his other teammates were standing around. He tried a cross court pass and got the turnover. That was not his fault. It was the fault of the point guard who doesn't seem to understand that the court is 50 feet wide. I swear to Pete the guy doesn't...well, 0 turnovers. I should have left it at that.
- I know I said the Randolph trade had no downside, but it would be kind of nice to see Hayward's minutes go to Corey Brewer right about now.
- How come it is so hard for Rambis to understand that one of his best two players needs to be on the court at all times?
- The Wolves were out-rebounded 53-39 and out free-throwed 27-16. Kevin Love probably could have had 27 FTAs all to himself if this were Wolves v. GSW again.
- Necessary caveat: Yes, the Lakers are a better team and the Wolves lose without the help of the refs. I get that. They're the wrestler without the costume up against the Undertaker. But still...tonight simply wasn't that good of an NBA product. I think my #1 hope for the CBA fight is that the season gets shortened by about 30 games. There is simply too much predictable garbage in the NBA to overlook.
- 2nd necessary caveat: Yes, there is hyperbole in this post. Sometimes it just needs to be let out and about.
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Wes Johnson was fantastic tonight
And the sooner Anthony Randolph takes big minutes away from Darko and Pek, the better
That’s all I really can say about this game
Oh, but if you're looking for where all the calls that should have been made tonight went, check Orlando
Knicks and Magic combined for 97 free throw attempts
Agreed
Although Bynum went through Randolph like a tissue paper, so it only works if the C is someone Love can guard. Love can guard quite a few, but Bynum is awfully big, strong, and skilled. Maybe start Pek and tell him to at least make Bynum work, then let Love take over.
Beasley hurts the team when he is a volume jump shooter. At this point one wonders whether that will change (3rd year in league).
I feel bad for bigs & wings that run hard on the fast break with Ridnour. Look, I know his jumper is pure and he is pretty decent at the Stop and Pop. But it is hard to get guys to run with you. If you don’t reward them, or try to reward and fail by giving them the ball in the wrong spot, they will stop. If there is one thing I expect Rubio to be able to do out of the shoot (if he comes), it is run a competent fast break.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Mar 1, 2011 10:02 PM CST up reply actions
You mean
Bynum’s elbow hooked/shoved him like tissue paper, yes?
Whenever I'm about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing.
Whatever it was, that's an incredibly tough matchup for Randolph.
Watching the highlights just now I saw two of Bynum simply overwhelming Randolph by virtue of having maybe sixteen times AR’s mass. Andrew B has a heck of a frame on him.
It’s interesting that we’d give Randolph his first significant minutes this way – by necessity against a huge front line like the Lakers’. The timing’s right, and all. I wonder if he’ll get that chunk of time against Detroit and Philly, where his size figures to be more a potential advantage than a stopgap measure.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
I was thinking the same thing this morning
Let A.R. play a lot vs. Detroit and their more pedestrian front line.
I’ve seen enough Darko to last a lifetime.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Mar 2, 2011 8:40 AM CST up reply actions
Darko isn't making the trip to detroit
because of personal issues so i’m sure we’ll see more pek and AR, get excited!
I watch this team, and i care so much, simply because i can’t not. It’s just a part of who i am..
I wonder if his wife is having her baby.
My co-worker saw them in Target the other day and could tell she was preggers.
She also said Darko looked mopey.
Check out Humdinger TV on YouTube.
http://twitter.com/HumdingerTV
Ah, the classic mopey husband look
when being dragged around Target by his wife. You could go there right now and see a dozen examples.
I say SHONDA you say WOLVES" SHONDA! WOLVES!
by Eric in Madison on Mar 2, 2011 12:15 PM CST up reply actions
She also said Darko looked mopey.
Trying to think of a time when he did not …
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Mar 2, 2011 10:04 AM CST up reply actions
Draft night?
I'm Trill, I'm running w/ the WOLVES
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Mar 2, 2011 10:08 AM CST up reply actions
AR/Bynum
Completely agree. That’s an extremely difficult match up for AR. He’s essentially a perimeter player still. He’s about 4 years and 45 pounds away from being able to try and handle Andrew Bynum by himself.
by voiceofharlanspast on Mar 2, 2011 9:42 AM CST up reply actions
It's almost too much to say, but Randolph should maybe get played like the young KG for now.
Give him a SF slot, slide him around a bit depending on defensive assignments.
Austin Daye’s started the last two games for the Pistons. There’s a matchup Randolph can deal with.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
I think he'd be better off
in a young Kirilenko role.
%
Anthony Randolph would look awful in a crew cut.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
I still have faith in Beasley
He was a jumpshooting big his first 2 years, I’m not surprised he’d stay that way while transitioning to the perimeter.
Was he really that bad?
I missed the game but he’s been passable for a rookie when I have seen him play
It's a game like this
That gives you hope that Wes Johnson can be a starting level shooting guard. Then you look at the absolute dearth of shooting guard talent in the next 2 drafts, and that possibility almost becomes a necessity if we are to become a competitive team.
Really hoping that he can finish the season strong, even though I’m not expecting it.
He'll be a competent starter
I don’t have any doubt he’ll be a competent 2/3 in the long run. It’s just that he’s a #4 pick. You’re basically going to get Wayne Ellington production from a #4 pick
If he becomes a competent starter
that has to better than Wayne Ellington level production. Wayne Ellington is just a terrible NBA basketball player.
We watching the same games?
Ellington isnt that bad…but his ceiling isnt that high.
"But this one goes to eleven..."
But also 48% from three
With good rebounding and assists and limited turnovers and fouls. Solid, but nothing special, which is what Wes will be most nights
I think you saw what you want to see with Wayne
The guy Wayne Ellington guards
Draws twice as many free throws
Shoots at a substantially higher clip
Racks up twice as many assists
Rebounds at the same rate
However turn it over 50% more.
If Wes becomes good though,
will we see anyone admit they were wrong?
by wolver on Mar 1, 2011 10:22 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I supported Wes last summer, but I will admit I’ve sworn off him after his miserable start to this season. I guess the fun part about being a fan is constantly changing my mind due to what happened “tonight.”
But if it makes you feel better. I will admit I was wrong to swear off Wesley Johnson if he becomes “good”
Haha
Well at least I know that when I formed an opinion about whether Wes will be good or not, I didn’t plan on changing it game to game.
Said it when he got DNP-CD, said it now, Wes is going to be really good.
Saying he ‘might be a competent starter’ is silly, and is his basement.
I was just going to check some of this out
but 82games looks f’ed up for Wayne…
Whenever I'm about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing.
I think you just need to ignore the PG and SF minutes because they are 0% of the team’s minutes at those positions meaning extremely small sample sized.
Or if you meant f’ed because he is getting getting f’ed by the guys he’s guarding every night and the statistics show it, then yes, I agree.
I guess I was more so going with:
Because everything is about 5-10% different from basketball-reference and because it says 0%, yet lists anything at all.
No question though that Wayne has been a rollercoaster this year (and one with moderately low peaks, at that).
Whenever I'm about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing.
82games is f'ed up for everyone
because they haven’t updated in forever. Just look at the minutes on/off in the +/1 section.
Ellington: 458 minutes on court (82games), 727 minutes played (b-ref)
Love: 1552 (82games), 2196 (b-ref)
Beas: 1271 (82games), 1661 (b-ref)
etc, etc
Their last update date for the Wolves is supposed to be 1/19/2011.
Not sure if that’s the same for every team. The date’s on the top of the team pages as you go in.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Fair enough
Ellington’s not the best comparison anyway
What I was trying to say is you’ll get the same things from Wes that you could from a late first rounder. It’s a Josh Howard scenario.
But no you can't
You can’t get elite athleticism and shooting from a late first rounder. Late first rounders and Ellingtons and Heywards.
You can get players who do as much on the court as Wes in the late first round.
Whether they’re as athletic or have as pretty a stroke doesn’t really matter.
Josh Howard
is another bad example, because he was unusually good for a late 1st round pick.
Indeed
You could call it the Boozer or Manu scenario too.
If we don’t draft an all-star in the second round, we have failed as an organization and must be guillotined.
Or
If we don’t draft a superstar at pick 4 we have failed again.
I am find a lot of humor in the accepted theory that every top 4 pick has been a superstar.
You are guaranteed nothing with any pick. Talk about the ‘status quo’ all you want in regards to Cousins, but he wasn’t going to solve any problems for us.
by TO12 on Mar 2, 2011 12:06 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Last 10 #4 picks before Wes
Evans, SAC
Westbrook, OKC
Conley, MEM
T. Thomas, POR
Paul, NOH
Livingston, LAC
Bosh, TOR
Gooden, MEM
Curry, CHI
Fizer, CHI
So, one superstar (Paul). Two All-Stars (Westbrook and Bosh). One potential future All-Star (Evans). Three decent rotation players (Conley, Gooden and T. Thomas) and three busts (Livingston, Curry and Fizer). Although, Livingston was certainly a freak situation.
Everything in the computer need my face on it. Mega Gigabytes, son!
I would argue that Wes
will have a career about as good a evans when it is all said and done. Wes can be part of a winning team without being ball dominant. Can we say the same about Evans? Iverson he is not.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Mar 2, 2011 6:12 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Can't say that about either of them...
yet at least. Neither has played on a winning team. Neither looks to be playing for a winning team for a while.
Evans is ball dominant. Big deal. He’s just not a PG. Wes isn’t ball dominant. Also not a big deal. He’s just not an ideal SG.
Evans has a better chance to be a dynamic player because he can create for himself. Wes will almost always be dependent on someone else to reach his offensive potential. Now, with Rubio (the Rubio we hope we get), Wes’ game could reach another level.
I just don’t get your vehemence against Evans. The kid has talent. What will hold him back is injury and mentality.
by Krotz the Wall on Mar 2, 2011 8:43 AM CST up reply actions
I don't have any vehemence against Evans
It was simply noted that he was on the list and my impression of his game as currently constituted, what he can get away with on the court and his demeanor both on and off it indicate he will have a hard time being successful as an individual player while being on a winning team. Is it possible? Absolutely.
Wes, but not needing the ball in a ball dominant stretch of NBA ball can exploit those opportunities once he is on a team with someone who can create. He finds that player and he will likely find both individual and team success. That being said, if he can’t find that teammate he won’t be a part of a winning team or put up stellar numbers.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Mar 2, 2011 3:18 PM CST up reply actions
I thought he was a reasonable comparison
to Wes from an overall talent perspective with Evans being the more overall talented player, but Wes being that guy whose skillsets will enable him to be more successful.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Mar 2, 2011 3:19 PM CST up reply actions
Shaun Livingston wasn't a "bust."
He was a solid young starting-caliber player. Would have been at least a “decent rotation player,” and his defense was first rate. His PG game was coming on strong and he was 21 when he blew out the knee.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
You can get a great player late in the first,
you just aren’t likely to. And while you maybe more likely to get a great player at 4, you should be happy to get a good one. Look back at the Hollinger D.R.A.F.T. Initiative pick-based analysis. The average productivity for a #4 pick is that of Donyell Marshall. So, the bar is not that high. While Howard was the 29th pick, he was the highest producing 29th pick ever, and far removed from the production you’d expect to get at 29 (D.J. White). If Wes becomes an excellent defensive 3 with great catch and shoot skills to pair in between Love and a playmaking 2, I’ll be more than happy with the pick.
by dropstep on Mar 2, 2011 12:24 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
This seems super interesting...
I’m not an insider though… could you do a real quick run through of the first round? Simple names and pick numbers will do…
by rugbyisbetter on Mar 2, 2011 12:49 AM CST up reply actions
That's a big chunk of paid content
I’m not sure what the general policy is about posting that, although I know what TMiss would say.
But at the same time, Howard also produced more than Wes is likely to
So he’s above the board on everyone
I like the Wes pick, don’t get me wrong. I’ve defended him as much as anyone. But in the broad scope of things, is he likely to do more for a team than Aaron Afflolo, Omri Caspi, or Nic Batum? Probably not
Oceanary
You’ve been consistent in your support of the number 4 pick. However many times you’ve written “Wes will likely never be more than….” just wondering why you hedge on his ceiling so much. Is it also the age argument?
As a 22 year old rookie Arron Affalo avgd 3.7 ppg on 41%fg and 21% 3pt fg. , 1.8 rbs blah blah blah.
He’s had a nice progression (and one career game against you know who). Not challenging you. I just want your opinion. Why will Wes not blow this guy away when he’s also a 4th year player?
by Tangerine dream on Mar 2, 2011 7:09 AM CST up reply actions
He doesn't have any handles
He can’t dribble the ball. Like…at all. That really really limits him. He’s not going to be a guy who can consistently create shots for himself or others, and he won’t get to the free throw line. He’s a super athletic catch-and-shoot player who can rebound and defend, and while he’s likely to be good at all three, that’s nothing special. For him to be a truly special player as-is, he’s going to have to kill it from mid-to-deep at a Ray Allen/Steph Curry level, and that’s asking a lot.
The age argument I don’t think applies as much in his case….although it is there…..because the things he’s bad at are things you just don’t see players make major leaps in at any age. Handling the ball well is something you either get how to do right away or don’t.
What exactly is your point with Howard?
However, I believe Wes will be more valuable than both Afflalo (who I like) and Caspi (who may someday develop consistency). As for Batum, who knows if he’ll ever live up to his promise. Interestingly, because the D.R.A.F.T. analysis is a little old, Afflalo rates out as the least productive ever #27 pick.With that frame of reference, Wes only has to exceed the career production of Shaun Livingston to be a better use of his pick.
Really?
A guy who’s averaging 13-4-3 on 50% shooting is the worst #27 pick ever? I find that hard to believe.
Anyway, the Howard things was just to illustrate you can get highly productive players late in the first round. I didn’t mean for them to be compared head to head.
(Ndudi Ebi, #26 overall.)
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
LIke I said, the analysis is old
from before the 2010 draft. He wasn’t putting up the same numbers before this year. Plus, I think it’s career production. But none of that is the point.
Yeah, but
given the make up (and limitations) of the rest of the team, I’d prefer some handles at the 2, and better defense at the 3. That’s my take.
I don't think it really matters.
A wing is a wing to me. Defense at the 2 and handles at the 3 is just as good as handles at the 2 and defense at the 3. Of course Beas would have to work on his handles for that to work out.
Yeah
or Beas could improve his D, or Wes could improve his handles, or…
As it is now we have no playmaking out there, and I’ll take my D specialist at the forward spot to compliment/assist Love.
As it is now
doesn’t really matter. We’re going to be terrible regardless. We should continue planning the team around the idea that Rubio (and his playmaking) will be on the team. As far as having the D at the forward spot to assist Love, does it really matter? Maybe I’m missing something obvious, but the SG or SF they’re going to be out defending on the wing, regardless. I don’t see how the position matters much at all as far as helping Love.
I watched the 1st 1/2 of this game with a friend who hasn't watched much NBA since Jordan
He couldn’t believe people paid for this game. “That’s what you spend your time on?” was the direct quote. Almost as depressing as thinking about how many people paid attention to Charlie Sheen tonight.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
Your post earlier this year about how to change the NBA for the better
still resonates in regards to the officiating and some minor rule changes. I just don’t understand why crappy refs, making superstar calls, for superstar players, that the league chooses to market instead of its teams, is the only way to maximize the profit of the NBA
I feel the same way about the Wolves and the NBA....
…as I did about the Twins and MLB right before the strike and the steroid era really got going. I love the idea of the game o basketball (just as I did baseball) and I love to play it (ditto baseball), but I feel my attraction to the pro game slipping away. I think I’ve taken most of my negativity out on the Wolves because they’ve been an easy target, but I think a lot of my negativity this year has also been tied to the crap this league puts out on a nightly basis.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Mar 1, 2011 10:13 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Couldn't agree more
The NBA has basically turned into a league where 3 guys stand around on o, and the other two guys run a pick and roll and if it doesn’t lead to a score, they start bitching about fouls. Not a great way to build the sport (IMO) but the league makes it infinitely worse by trying to build up the same guys who are ruining the league by plowing into defenders play after play.
by Vlade on Mar 1, 2011 10:30 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It's not just the bitching about fouls
It’s that we have a rule against that and it’s selectively enforced. Also the ticky-tack star calls are really getting old. I’m with you on the running into the defender. There are guys at my Y that I will actively avoid matching up with because all they do is lower their shoulder and when I’m the 5’10", 180lb guy, I’m almost always giving ground, it’s even less impressive to see the “elite athletes” resort to those type of moves (as a side note if the defender could be a little more active in holding his ground I would find it more acceptable – the whole game is stacked too far in the favor of offense for me).
Well, unlike the above poster, I could agree more
I think that in terms of talent and interest the NBA is at a peak that it hasn’t seen in a long time.
What I see most of the time is a ‘things were better back in the day’ mentality, which really overlooks a lot of truth. It is true, for sure, that things can change for the worse. But the NBA has a lot of things going for it now that it previously.
If someone has grown tired of a product, fine, but far be it from me to condemn the whole church because I don’t pray anymore.
To clarify
I hate nothing more than the “It was better in the old days” mantra. But let’s get serious here. The NBA is far behind football and baseball in terms of popularity. It is a league marketed entirely around superstars, but the general public does not find those superstars likeable (consider Kobe, Lebron, etc.,). Increasingly, it is also a rigged league, between players forcing trades to large market teams and the refs’ ability to sway games in favor of the “star” team. As for the game itself, it is increasingly reliant on isolation plays so if you are team like the Wolves without a guy who can break down the defense, you haven’t a chance. If this is the peak, I’m not sure who’s going to be watching in ten years.
by Vlade on Mar 2, 2011 12:07 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
NBA
even at it’s worst in the early to mid 2000s regularly posted better regular season tv ratings that baseball and both lag greatly behind football, which has the benefit of having all games consolidated on two networks on one day on the weekend with no real competition to go up against. Baseball at it’s worst couldn’t even beat out the WWF in tv ratings.
As far as offense types: there are plenty of good offensive schemes in the NBA if you choose to watch them. You can look at Miami or at Portland which greatly rely on the ability of their players to work in isolation if the original play doesn’t work, but places like Phx, SA, LAL, Hou, Dal, and most of the great teams all have great offenses that they run and use isolation plays much less than it seems you are implying
These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game. - Charlie Wilson
TRADE KOBY FOR LUTHER HEAD!!!! (it's a movement)
let's not forget that each baseball team
plays twice as many games. So the TV ratings arguement doesn’t hold up very well. Unless the ratings are damn near twice as high (which I doubt). I’m not even a big baseball fan, but I admit that at least the reffing (umping?? or is it umpiring?) is MUCH better than the NBA, which has to be the worst reffed professional league I have ever seen.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Mar 2, 2011 6:17 AM CST up reply actions
When I watched it, the NFL was easily the worst-officiated professional league.
Individual decisions certainly had the biggest effect on a game’s outcome; a single pass interference call one way or the other could be huge. And their referees were amateurs, which showed.
More recently, as I understand it, the league has allowed instant replay to essentially rewrite the rules for what counts as a “fumble.” Pretty bad.
In terms of how it feels as a fan, too, the NFL allows plays to run out. How many “We scored a touchdown!… Oh no, a flag! ’Illegal Block from Behind?!?” moments are there? Those suck for everyone.
Basketball has its problems, I definitely think it needs rule changes to right some play balance issues and to cull the ranks of veteran referees like Joey Crawford. Maybe it also needs to lock the refs in a room and torture them into calling the playoffs like a regular game. But next to what I remember of football, the NBA is still superior.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
NFL has the best officials
They make almost every right call. I think i can only think of one instance last year where one of the refs made a dumb call and it affected the game.
NBA refs are by far the worst….
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 2, 2011 12:22 PM CST up reply actions
I remember one in a Denver game I think
and the ref manned up the next day and said it was the wrong call. That would never ever happen in the NBA.
When the ref admitted that his bad call had cost Seattle the Super Bowl,
that did show class, I guess.
“It was a tough thing for me. I kicked two calls in the fourth quarter and I impacted the game, and as an official you never want to do that,” said the veteran of 15 NFL seasons and two Super Bowls.
“It left me with a lot of sleepless nights, and I think about it constantly,” Leavy said of the game in February 2006. “I’ll go to my grave wishing that I’d been better.”
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Seriously. You would like to tell me that "almost every call" is right in the NFL?
I will say, sometimes they have personality.
The NFL has all sorts of leisure time to correct potential blown calls, anyway. The committee meetings between 6-second plays make sure of that.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
by feral on Mar 2, 2011 1:14 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
How's this one?
Touchdown catch, nullified.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
by feral on Mar 2, 2011 1:19 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
"The ruling on the field..."
“is that the runner did not complete the catch during the process of the catch.”
Seriously. That’s what the ref said there.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
by feral on Mar 2, 2011 1:31 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
This one wasn't a bad ref call.
It was a good ref call following to the letter an absolutely terrible rule.
Yes, the NFL:
Where plodding incompetence meets instinctively bureaucratic thinking.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Yes I would
Good job picking some random youtube vids to prove your point. If you throw enough crap at a wall some will stick
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 2, 2011 2:24 PM CST up reply actions
After essentially every NFL game, legions of fans moan about how the refs jobbed them.
There are countless example of that, everywhere, throughout the entire history of the league. How in the world you could possibly come up with the sentiments that “almost every call” is right in that league, or that only one case last year featured a bad call affecting a game… It boggles the mind.
And again: One or two calls can affect an NFL game dramatically. If the Lakers are going to be favored by the refs, it takes a gamelong set of calls in Kobe Bryant’s favor. In the NFL, call one touchdown back on a holding call and you’ve completely changed the game.
I’ve linked above to a former ref admitting that he changed the outcome of the Super Bowl with two bad calls. Somehow you chose not to respond to that. Gee, I wonder why.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
I won't argue any of that. I will say that I still believe
NFL refs are the best in any of the major sports. And that NBA refs are the worst.
Can you imagine an NFL game with bad calls as often as an NBA game? That, my friend, would be an issue.
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 3, 2011 7:52 PM CST up reply actions
Proportionately, one call is *vastly* more influential in football.
In a 28-21 NFL game, if one long pass interference call gives one team a goal line opportunity, a fourth of the winning team’s points are now largely the result of that single flag. Or Calvin Johnson’s “runner did not complete the catch during the process of the catch” touchdown gets taken away, and it’s a swing the other way.
Can we imagine an NBA game in which one blown call would cause a 25-point swing in the result? Because, proportionately, that’s how our 28-21 NFL game worked.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
NFL refs are a joke.
“You could call a holding on any play.” Oh? You could? THEN DO IT.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Mar 2, 2011 1:41 PM CST up reply actions
The Madden series builds "blown calls" and reviews into the *video games.*
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Three things drive NFL ratings
1. Limited number of games.
2. Time slots (preferable and more importantly predictable). Same every week. Sunday afternoons.
3. Gambling
these are probably in inverse order of importance to rating.
by Tangerine dream on Mar 2, 2011 8:35 AM CST up reply actions
Plus, 3A:
“Fantasy Football.”
I actually think they should try to incorporate a concerted effort to develop #2 and #3 on the WNBA, as a test-run for the NBA.
Only four more months until the lockout begins!
That's true
Huge number of fantacy baseball fans too, yet they get their stats online. Sort of intertwined with convenience of viewing (all the stats one afternoon for the most part). So FF has a much greater impact than FB, or my favorite, fantacy hockey!
by Tangerine dream on Mar 2, 2011 9:27 AM CST up reply actions
Heh--
I’ve got a new candidate for your favorite fantasy sport.
Only four more months until the lockout begins!
What is funny to me
Is that despite the massive popularity disparity between fantasy football and other fantasy sports, I consider fantasy football to easily be the worst fantasy sport. It’s too luck-based and affected by injury, and almost all games are played in a single day. More than any other game, it luck determines who wins. Maybe it’s just the fact that it gives you another reason to be interested in a sport you’d already watch, but basketball and baseball are far more interesting as fantasy sports, in my book at least.
"We must always seek the truth in our opponents' error and the error in our own truth." - RN
by nja700 on Mar 2, 2011 1:21 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Try playing in a 16 team league with other people who crunch numbers for a living
And then the luck, particularly injury luck, is off the charts.
Then again, there is something really apt about having a much higher degree of luck in fantasy football than basketball, right? It might be frustrating but it mirrors the game it is modelled on.
Disagree
I would contend that, yes, the limited number of games helps, but I think that the overall product that the NFL puts out is worlds better than the MLB/NBA.
I don’t have any trouble watching an NFL game with two random teams playing. Can’t say the same about the other two.
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 2, 2011 12:23 PM CST up reply actions
Parity...
Is key. Everyone is on a mostly level playing field. Not so in the NBA.
"But this one goes to eleven..."
by kingsxman on Mar 2, 2011 12:52 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, mostly because of single elimination playoff style and revenue sharing.
These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game. - Charlie Wilson
TRADE KOBY FOR LUTHER HEAD!!!! (it's a movement)
Eh...
I think there’s a lot more to it than that.
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 3, 2011 7:53 PM CST up reply actions
Regular season doesn't really matter if you want to judge it
in the playoffs, both the MLB and the NBA have extremely low audiences, but the NBA has still been on top for most of this decade and especially the last one. The World series last year registered an 8.4 tv rating, while the NBA Finals were at a 10.6. Either way, my biggest point was that they both have a long way to go to catch football and they’re really just fighting for second place in terms of viewing. NBA just so happens to win out on average more often and both of them fluctuate just as much when dealing with big or small market teams in the playoffs and final series.
In terms of reffing, I’m not even going to get into baseball and how many teams get screwed on a regular basis there.
These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game. - Charlie Wilson
TRADE KOBY FOR LUTHER HEAD!!!! (it's a movement)
Well, it was a "small market" World Series
(Suck it Rangers!) with (I think) historic low ratings compared to LA vs Boston. I don’t know how other years played out, but this seems as lopsided as could be.
I think the Phillies and Rays
had a similarly low tv rating
These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game. - Charlie Wilson
TRADE KOBY FOR LUTHER HEAD!!!! (it's a movement)
There is always...
the NHL playoffs. I hope this year’s match ups and games are even close to how good last year’s playoffs turned out.
by Krotz the Wall on Mar 2, 2011 8:48 AM CST up reply actions
Just because it [kind of] works
doesn’t mean it’s the best alternative.
See Fl,N and LB,M
Whenever I'm about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing.
My exact feelings on herpes
Whenever I'm about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing.
SnP
A little off subject, but why did you all last nights thread the El Cid edition? Is that in reference to Pau Gasol and Spain’s national hero?
I'm Trill, I'm running w/ the WOLVES
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Mar 2, 2011 9:41 AM CST up reply actions
wuz at de game mayn
i worry bout Randolph. He iz de ultimate big man tweener. What iz he? He cant shoot to save hiz life, yet he cant come close to bodyin any legit NBA centers (or even PFs). De way Bynum backed him down wuz obvious dis guy iz not a Camby like center. i have high hopes for de kid (dat ally oop wuz amazing) but i juss dont know where he fits on our or any team
MAYN HOL UP!
I have similar concerns
Against a team with a Bosh-type PF and a shortish C, Love & Randolph should be able to play D. But with Pau & Bynum both are probably too big/physical/skilled for Randolph to defend.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Mar 1, 2011 10:03 PM CST up reply actions
He's gotta put on muscle...
…which he will. He’s only 21, remember. And at the same time, the Lakers have a freakishly tall/long/good frontcourt. Judging him against that trio isn’t really fair, because they’re a unique team in that regard. You can mix-and-match against them all you want and you’ll never really come out with an advantage. Against a team with a more pedestrian frontline, which is like, the 28 other teams in the league, not often will there be a case where you couldn’t put AR at center and not expect some parity between him and Love and whoever they’re up against
I love your posts
"I know you're from Middle America, and sometimes you feel like you're representing more than just a school or a conference, maybe an entire group of American citizens out there."
by Twin Cities Hawk on Mar 2, 2011 8:33 AM CST up reply actions
Pretty fun game to attend...
obviously a larger crowd than usual, and the Wolves competed hard. I suppose we needed both Wes and Beas to have hot nights, but only got 1 for 2. The defensive gameplan was solid, for the most part. A few other thoughts:
- I mostly disagree on the reffing take. Kobe does what we all wish Beasley would do more of: initiates contact. He’s rewarded for it like Love is here, Wade and James are in Miami, it’s part of the game. Love gets many bogus calls, too. His first “shooting” foul was hilarious.
- If Wes keeps this up, I’ll change my mind about him. That was great to see and he’s really playing two-way ball, right now.
- Ridiculous lineup to start the 4th Quarter. The B-Squad. Big f’ing surprise that we fell down 9, instantly.
- Anthony Randolph is ACTIVE on the offensive boards. Boy, is that different from our, uh, other center.
- Jonny sucks. I guess he didn’t have a turnover tonight, but he still played terrible basketball. Dribbling the shot clock down to 2 and flinging it to an unsuspecting shooter is as good as a turnover. Please stop giving him minutes. If his 16 minutes tonight go to Bassy, this game is probably close in the final minutes.
- The Lakers have a shocking amount of poor offensive talent for such a great team. Between Odom and Artest (two key players) they’ve got guys that are invited to shoot wide open looks, accept those invitations, and fail. They won this game in large part due to their ability to play “tip” around the rim. I guess Bynum is more important (at least against the Timberwolves) than I realized.
Let me just give you the take of someone who had the benefit of replay
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, and wrong on Kobe. He didn’t initiate anything tonight. He was on Kobe cruise control and he still got bailed out.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Mar 1, 2011 9:58 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
When arms flail in the air...
fouls are sometimes called. Love learned this quicker than most good players do. Kobe’s had it down for years. It is what it is. If you’ve got a problem with it, you’re watching the wrong league.
No...
…I accepted the superstar treatment a long, long time ago. I get that it happens. This wasn’t even that. It was a guy coasting to superstar treatment. It definitely seemed like I was watching the wrong league tonight. That was brutal. That was worse than a college game.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Mar 1, 2011 10:03 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Alright, agree to disagree, then.
Every time I’ve seen the Lakers come to town, I’ve seen Kobe get BS calls. Brewer’s first Kobe Experience was a real gem where he was drawing charges and being whistled for his 2nd and 3rd fouls, right away. Same stuff happens with D-Wade. If you want something closer to the “coasting” model, Paul Pierce plays relatively effortlessly sometimes, and still gets calls when he does his best acting job. I’ve come to accept it as part of the NBA.
I don't know what you're talking about
A lot of effort goes into that face he makes. Did you not see the concentration lines?
Whenever I'm about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing.
I guess fans had to cheer at something in a 90-79 game where the team they paid for plays a half of half assed ball..
….and where both teams shot below 40%.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
Hey
if it’s any indication how bad Kobe calls were tonight, I have to admit that I don’t remember seeing Gasol make his face once. That’s usually one of my highlights of Laker games.
Whenever I'm about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing.
I think these are the sorts of games that really turn off casual sports fans
It’s the type of action where you can finally talk someone into watching an NBA game along the lines of “Hey, it’s the Lakers” and then…blech.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
So true
I hate arguing with the NBA fanboys in realgm about this crap. “The league is all about money, that’s why they do it!”
Uh, sorry, but it’s a crappy business decision. I think the new CBA is going to address some of these issues.
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2011 10:26 PM CST up reply actions
I'm torn on the CBA
On one hand, the league clearly needs some changes. On the other, the owners are the ones screwing damn near everything up. The Wolves bought out Eddy Curry tonight. The fact that he has that contract and crippled a team’s salary cap isn’t a player’s fault. Charlie Pierce had an interesting blog post earlier this week that sums up my thoughts on the problems with major sports leagues:
This Blog has no idea whether this is good or bad for baseball. What is plain is that the best thing for baseball would be for somebody to pry the Mets loose from the current ownership before they trade their new stadium for a bag of magic beans on the way to market some Sunday. And it is further evidence that, for all the huffing and blowing about large-and-small-market teams, and about “competitive imbalance” and all that rot, the primary reason that a franchise in a self-regulating, government-sanctioned monopoly gets in financial trouble is because its owners are either a) cheap, b) greedy, or c) dumb as a freaking socket wrench.
That applies to more than just MLB.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Mar 1, 2011 10:30 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Guaranteed contracts...
are they likely to be in the next CBA? Seems like that’s a huge problem for the league, quality of play, etc.
Also, the 3-years from high school requirement used by the NFL would be incredibly beneficial to the league.
A higher age limit is almost guaranteed to be a part of it
Guaranteed deals, I don’t know. That’s a huge point of contention between the league and the players
I think there are numerous structural issues...
…both on and off the court to be addressed. I’d like to see the return of hand checking, for one. I think it would force more end-to-end action and cut down on 1-on-1 play, as teams would have to create more space for the players to create. I’d like to see goaltending rules changed to international rules. Hell, widen the damn rim. Anything to get it away from a pick and roll dominated league where the defenders aren’t on equal footing.
I have no problem with guaranteed contracts. If the owners can’t control themselves, that shouldn’t be the player’s fault. A 3 year requirement would be good for name recognition but I don’t think it would improve the quality of play. I think the most fundamental problem with the NBA is that the actual rules of the game push the play towards what we see on the court on a nightly basis. I think shortening the season would help too.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
I think the 3-year requirement...
would increase parity by improving the quality of rookies on last year’s worst teams.
Can't widen the rim. 3s would be a joke.
But eliminating illegal defenses would help.
The old CBA used to have a 5 pt shot. Pretty sure of that.
by Tangerine dream on Mar 1, 2011 10:48 PM CST up reply actions
What do illegal defenses even consist of?
Is it certain types of zone D? If so I would love that rule to be lifted, too.
Btw I just got Phaedra. New Tangerine Dream fan here!
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2011 10:54 PM CST up reply actions
Very
I’ve been in music heaven for the past week or so.
I bought
Phaedra
The King of Limbs
When Life Gives You Lemons you paint that **** gold
Cryptograms
Cosmogramma
I plan on buying The Band by The Band this week.
yay music
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2011 11:01 PM CST up reply actions
Having my first listen
Of both Bon Iver’s “For Emma, Forever Ago” and The Rolling Stones’ “Exile on Main Street.” They live up to the hype, so far.
"We must always seek the truth in our opponents' error and the error in our own truth." - RN
I hate 3 second rules
That’s a total case of what S-n-P is talking about….making a rule for the sole purpose of pushing a certain type of style on the court
As far as I’m concerned, big men can camp in the paint on defense as long as they want. The other teams will either punish them by getting open looks, or learn to punish them by becoming better shooters
by Oceanary on Mar 1, 2011 10:58 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I think we both know a shortened season won't happen
And on guaranteed contracts: how is it exactly that the owners are supposed to know how players will react to getting huge deals? I know that non-guaranteed contracts won’t be making their way in, but there is a definite advantage there for the actual product.
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2011 10:51 PM CST up reply actions
I think
partially guaranteed contracts similar to that Ryan Gomes had are a reasonable compromise.
NFL style signing bonuses spread out over x years, that count against a cap even if the yearly option is not picked up.
by WinTheLottery on Mar 2, 2011 12:42 PM CST up reply actions
Did you see the
protest video from Madison, Wisconsin, where apparently there are palm trees?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RClJ6vK9x_4&feature=player_embedded
Everything in the computer need my face on it. Mega Gigabytes, son!
Classic
I say SHONDA you say WOLVES" SHONDA! WOLVES!
by Eric in Madison on Mar 2, 2011 1:52 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah it is.
I’ve left the NBA for 3-4 years a couple times. Continuation (where the guy’s goal is to get fouled and then after the fact throw up a BS shot so they get free throws), star calls, flopping and constant complaining to the refs have switched me over to college ball more than once.
This year when they instituted the “respect for the game” rule I was upset. Not because I didn’t like the idea, but because I knew they’d never enforce it consistently or to all the players.
That said I’m not really sure why the league thinks moving in the direction of the NBA Jam video games is a good idea. You know where each team has two stars on the court going for as many highlight reel plays as possible. At least in the stupid video game they have the good sense to take the other 6 players off the court.
I'd skipped out on the NBA for a while too
(2007 We Believe Warriors run as the exception) and was fully into college ball. It was the amazing player class of 2008 in the Pac10 games I’d been watching suddenly hitting the NBA en mass that made me want to tune back in to follow their development. Even now, without some interest in the players on a given team, I can’t bring myself to watch a full game. Hence my inability to provide a scouting report on the Charlotte Bobcats or any of their players.
I'll join the club...
I stopped watching for about 3 years after the 06 finals. **** was rigged.
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 2, 2011 12:26 PM CST up reply actions
Eh...
The NBA is a joke as-is. Just because I watch the pups doesn’t mean I can’t bitch about obvious issues.
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2011 10:12 PM CST up reply actions
The Lakers have a shocking amount of poor offensive talent for such a great team. Between Odom and Artest (two key players) they’ve got guys that are invited to shoot wide open looks, accept those invitations, and fail. They won this game in large part due to their ability to play "tip" around the rim. I guess Bynum is more important (at least against the Timberwolves) than I realized.
Your comment about Artest couldn’t be more correct. However the same comment about Odom couldn’t be more wrong. Artest’s outside shooting is atrocious, however Odom is having a career year. What you saw was one bad shooting performance among many, many good ones.
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
Or maybe what you are seeing
is a good shooting year among many, many bad ones?
%
Well, yeah.
That’s kinda the definition of a career year. I suppose he could regress after this, who knows?
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
good defense
don’t cover him on the perimet
by WinTheLottery on Mar 2, 2011 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
Pop
Didn’t Rambis state recently that he needed to keep one of those guys on the court? Game was gift wrapped in first 4 mins of 4th.
by Tangerine dream on Mar 1, 2011 10:01 PM CST reply actions
I don't know if he needs a computer to help him
with rotations or what. He waxes on about the many, many years he’s been in the league, but who plays 5 backups at the same time for extended minutes?
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Mar 1, 2011 10:05 PM CST up reply actions
Unless he was trying to save the starters for the end game push
This team really needs a better bench. I think moving Beasley to the bench might be the best option, or at least trying to find some more offensive bench players.
Clearly the standard strategy
But in saving your starters for the final push you’re guaranteeing there is no final push. it’s like not bringing in your closer with the game on the line with two outs in the eighth leading by one run because you want to save him for the ninth. By the time the ninth arrives you’re down three runs. Some teams don’t have the luxury of a great set up guy. That would be the Wolves. The bench is collectively weak, but the players are servicable if out there with a couple of starters. When you suck and you want to win you have to coach out of the box. Rambis did what a typical coach might do, but in so doing guaranteed the closer would never be needed.
He himself recognized the need to keep one of his best players on the court with the second unit. Last night he got amnesia and it cost them any chance they may have had to win.
by Tangerine dream on Mar 2, 2011 7:27 AM CST up reply actions
They just really
need Webster to get healthy and playing like he did in preseason.
Maybe
he doesn’t know who the second best player is?
I’m not sure myself.
I’m getting whiplash from my opinions on Beasely.
by WinTheLottery on Mar 2, 2011 12:44 PM CST up reply actions
I'll get this out of the way right now, I am
A fan of the lakers come playoff time because Kobe is one of my favorite players.
Sure it’s easier for us to say well the ref shouldn’t have made that call for Kobe or should have made this call for Wes but without thinking; Who to give the Benifit of the doubt to? The number 7 scoring leader of all time who’s made a career at getting to the line or a player thats never been to an all star game(Using the whole timberwolves team but Klove here). Sure, no way in hell is it right but it’s human nature. We’re all biased and the sooner we quit holding the joke that the NBA is to such a high standard of competent reffing, the sooner these losses or easier to swallow.
What you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your entire rambling incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Mar 1, 2011 10:08 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Benefit of the doubt.....yes
Making up fouls….no
by Tangerine dream on Mar 1, 2011 10:09 PM CST up reply actions
The NBA gives Kobe
The benefit of the doubt if he farts wrong
What you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your entire rambling incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Mar 1, 2011 10:11 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Or if he
rapes someone has sex too forcefully.
Whenever I'm about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing.
by Mplax on Mar 1, 2011 10:18 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
Really, this crap gets recced?
Makes me feel better about being in the minority about Wes
Yes Kobe is the MVR
I'm Trill, I'm running w/ the WOLVES
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Mar 2, 2011 8:28 AM CST up reply actions
But then if a Wolves player was to be arrested for assault,
you’d say it was wonderful, because at least he wasn’t guilty of murder.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
No, Kobe is a special kind of D-bag
No one doubts his ability to play basketball or his competitive nature, but he’s both extremely easily to hate and internationally popular.
It’s mind boggling to the many many people who hate him that many many more like him so much.
We see the same crap on the court. He hits shots no-one in their right mind should even take pretty regularly, but they he gets rewarded with gift fouls at a sickening rate too. He’s the NBA’s version of “too big to fail”.
We're seeing a steady advancing front of economic terms on this site.
“Rubio Bubble.”
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
by feral on Mar 2, 2011 9:17 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
There's a large divide
between people who hate Kobe (me, and probably the people who rec’d that) and people who like him (clearly, you. And possibly Tangerine Dream). Thrown in the middle are people who don’t want to see any form of joke about rape, even if it’s an anti-rape sentiment. To each their own.
%
To clear the record
I hate Kobe, but think he’s an absolute assassin in crunch time.
On the rape allegation, my guess is forcible sex. Sometimes, that means she went there willingly but got more than she bargained for. But I wasn’t in the room, so even though I feel he is culpible it’s hard to publicly call him a rapist.
Knew an athlete who went to a room with a slutty cheerleader. Her intention was to have sex. When suddenly three players became involved, the game changed and she claimed rape. More than she bargained for.
Regardless of what took place with Kobe it sure wasn’t very honorable (adultery at the VERY least). And probably the 200th time. I don’t have much respect for the groupie either.
by Tangerine dream on Mar 2, 2011 11:41 AM CST up reply actions
Um
You do realize that “When suddenly three players became involved,” when that’s not what she wanted means it is rape, right?
I say SHONDA you say WOLVES" SHONDA! WOLVES!
by Eric in Madison on Mar 2, 2011 12:18 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Methinks you missed the point
that it was a “slutty” cheerleader.
by dropstep on Mar 2, 2011 12:29 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I did show some bias with adjective
She later dropped charges because of so many incidents in her backround, but I never meant to imply she wasn’t raped. The point was that it escalated to a point where she said no and they didn’t, and that may have been the same with Kobe.
by Tangerine dream on Mar 2, 2011 1:07 PM CST up reply actions
Let me clarify
She went into the room with all three players (drunk with a bottle of whiskey in hand), with the intention of having sex with one of them. Doesn’t vindicate the other two in any way, but God man really? That is a worse game plan then Rambis has.
by Tangerine dream on Mar 2, 2011 12:47 PM CST up reply actions
And you understand
that whatever she went into that room with the intention of doing at least two of the three athletes involved raped her, right?
No
I think that as the superior gender man has the right to take a woman any time and anywhere he pleases.
by Tangerine dream on Mar 2, 2011 1:13 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
OK I'll try to take you seriously, again, I wasn't in the room
That’s what she claimed took place. The players claimed something different. Charges were dropped. Do you know the other two players raped her?
by Tangerine dream on Mar 2, 2011 1:29 PM CST up reply actions
I'm going off your description of the event,
Also a court’s finding in any instance doesn’t establish actual guilt or innocence of a crime. That’s not a legal issue.
I don't know what took place
If you made me guess I’d say she was complicate with all three. Then it escalated to something she hadn’t bargained for.
If she said stop and they didn’t that’s rape. Then again she may have been looking to cash in on a law suit or settlement (which she attempted). I don’t know what happened but we don’t differ on the definition of rape.
by Tangerine dream on Mar 2, 2011 2:45 PM CST up reply actions
I see.
Note to self: Avoid conversations about rape on canishoopus.
Conversations about necrophilia are still in play, though.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Mar 2, 2011 2:48 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, leave "rape" alone
until we finally decide what the One, True Religion really is.
And also, who was the best “Batman.”
Only four more months until the lockout begins!
1) Consumerism.
2) DB Cooper.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Mar 2, 2011 3:18 PM CST up reply actions
Uhh, YEAH!!!?
I thought you were familiar with my work . . .
Only four more months until the lockout begins!
How far away
from schools have you been ordered to stay??
by Tangerine dream on Mar 2, 2011 3:50 PM CST up reply actions
There is something about supporting this moribund franchise
that evokes a sort of necrophilic quality.
"We must always seek the truth in our opponents' error and the error in our own truth." - RN
I'm not sure what the problem is
“rapes someone” was quite clearly crossed out, and thus stricken from the record.
by Bahlgren1 on Mar 2, 2011 11:55 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
We will ask the jury to do disregard that statement
Is that the dumbest thing ever?
by Tangerine dream on Mar 2, 2011 12:04 PM CST up reply actions
That's what it seemed like to me tonight
It felt even more contrived than usual. I kind of went over-the-top to make this point up above the fold, but in a more reasoned take, it’s just kind of off-putting in a way that makes me want to do something else like read a book.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Mar 1, 2011 10:15 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Come on
How can you not cheer for someone who gave themselves a nickname like “Black Mamba”.
I know I often refer to myself as “The Pink Tornado of Pure Awesomeness” at the Y. Its starting to catch on. A little.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Mar 1, 2011 10:20 PM CST up reply actions
I'm the Blue Ringed Octopus
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Mar 1, 2011 10:21 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
What an amazingly good choice.
Intelligent, toxic, agile little predators. They do things like release venom into the current to paralyze their prey downstream. Now that’s “efficiency.”
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Come on now%%%%%%%
Is that really efficiency? I mean how much venom are we talking about here? If it was a little bit I guess I buy your argument, but if we are talking about a lot of venom that’s just inefficient volume shooting at it’s worst.
Their venom is incredibly potent.
I don’t know about the energetics, but the stuff can paralyze and kill a human being, and they’re only like 100 grams altogether, tops. They can’t be putting out much volume.
No idea what their TS% would be for kills.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Does this so-called "deadly assassin" skill
translate into crunch time?
They mostly eat stuff like shrimp. Crunch!
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Ounce for ounce (or pound for pound)..
…they’re the most deadly animal on the planet. I’ve often wondered if a really enterprising criminal could hook one up to a stick and use it as the ultimate untraceable weapon. They paralyze their prey in water. A good strategy. I paralyze my on-court prey with deadly shimmys and 3 pointers.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
Tell that to some ladies
and see how it works as a pickup line. Report back?
Whenever I'm about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing.
Sadly I cannot test this theory as I am married
However, my wife seems pretty taken with it. She often responds “OK well then why don’t you tornado this bag of garbage out to the can? That would be awesome.”
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Mar 1, 2011 10:24 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Sorry, I felt the %s were implied
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Mar 1, 2011 10:27 PM CST up reply actions
Can we use %s in our names?
If so, I’m just going to make a new name: Mplax%
I feel as if this would save a lot of trouble..
Whenever I'm about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing.
Deal
but I think I’ll just go with a ‘%’ so we all know that everything I say is gibberish.
Whenever I'm about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing.
everyone needs a goal
:)
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Mar 2, 2011 7:12 AM CST up reply actions
"Earnestness is stupidity sent to college."
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
You could always try the Platypus of Power
After all, it’s the only poisonous mammal.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
And it can lay an egg!
Hmmm … that one might be better for our head coach during key end of game play calling situations ;)
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Mar 1, 2011 10:29 PM CST up reply actions
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Mar 1, 2011 10:31 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Ha I saw that shirt and asked for an explanation
The guy actually had a 5 point platform about the shirt and how awesome it is.
I'm Trill, I'm running w/ the WOLVES
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Mar 2, 2011 8:31 AM CST up reply actions
You *do* like your toxins, don't you?
First the blue-ringed octopus, now platypus…es? What is the plural? Playtupi? Platypuses.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Platypodes
from the greek word for ‘foot’ which is pus — plural = podes
just a guess however
and I talk out of my nether voice, sometimes.
I'm a big fan as things that are poisonous (or venomous) as hell
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
I was going a different direction with that
I’ll be done now…
Whenever I'm about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing.
That's awesome
They call me lefty Paul or Spot shot Paul. There are like 3 Pauls where I play. At least i’m not Bad Paul
I'm Trill, I'm running w/ the WOLVES
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Mar 2, 2011 8:30 AM CST up reply actions
haha
Does that mean I’m carrying the team? That the team is dead? They are bearing the deadweight that is me?
I'm Trill, I'm running w/ the WOLVES
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Mar 2, 2011 8:49 AM CST up reply actions
One size fits all!
Depends how you’re playing!
by Tangerine dream on Mar 2, 2011 9:01 AM CST up reply actions
Ha you should come and play and give me the nickname then
I don’t want to be “that guy” who gives himself a nickname
I'm Trill, I'm running w/ the WOLVES
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Mar 2, 2011 9:23 AM CST up reply actions
My playing days are done
The older I get, the better I used to be.
by Tangerine dream on Mar 2, 2011 9:50 AM CST up reply actions
Foul calls are really more of a lifetime achievement award
Like Duncan in the All Star game.
%%%%%%%%%%%%
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Mar 1, 2011 10:16 PM CST up reply actions
It's kind of depressing that this is true
Can you imagine if crap like this flew in the NFL? I can’t.
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2011 10:24 PM CST up reply actions
Tom Brady
What you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your entire rambling incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Mar 1, 2011 10:30 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Please explain
Brady is beastly. I don’t watch too many pats games. Does he get star calls?
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2011 10:33 PM CST up reply actions
The Tuck rule was created during the Super Bowl
because of Tom Brady. Quarterbacks are more sheltered than any NBA star.
These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game. - Charlie Wilson
TRADE KOBY FOR LUTHER HEAD!!!! (it's a movement)
Ah
Yes I agree with that. I was more referring to superstar calls. No where in the NBA rulebook does it state that certain players have precedent over others when making calls. I think that is a very different situation than what the NFL has done.
Btw, I think protecting QB’s is important. Anything for the safety of the players.
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2011 11:07 PM CST up reply actions
WRs get hung out to dry
in the league. There is no protection for them except the horse collar calls. Once they catch the ball in mid-air, their in danger and they’re always hung out to dry. Safety isn’t the reason they protect the qb’s as much as those are the glamour positions of the NFL. They get the most attention and are the biggest pitchmen for the league. They’re just as protected as superstars.
In the NBA, there is not so much precedent of superstars, but because stars are more capable they get a greater benefit that the contact actually caused them to miss. Most rookies, do not get the benefit of the whistle at all in their first years until the refs know what their game is like. That’s why fts don’t really spike up for players until after a couple years in the league. Not saying that’s always the case and there are definitely examples of phantom fouls, but I don’t think it perverts the game as much people think it is, unless it has been being perverted for two decades now.
These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game. - Charlie Wilson
TRADE KOBY FOR LUTHER HEAD!!!! (it's a movement)
Good info on the NFL. Thanks
I just don’t know man. I would say the game has been perverted for a while. Hell, I would say my inhouse basketball league in HS was perverted with star calls, so I think it’s just the general precedent. Or something.
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2011 11:42 PM CST up reply actions
Quarterbacks are protected to keep them playing. In the NBA, superstars are protected to keep them winning.
Really???
A quarterback can’t get hit after the play, but a receiver can get clocked in mid-air while he’s at his most helpless, but they protect the QB so they can keep playing and the WR gets…
These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game. - Charlie Wilson
TRADE KOBY FOR LUTHER HEAD!!!! (it's a movement)
They also have a penalty
For hitting a defenseless receiver, correct? I think the point of the quarterback-protecting rulings is that these guys are in a uniquely dangerous position on the field. More than any spot on the field, their focus is away from the guys that are gunning for them. Quite often, they have no time to physically prepare for a hit – simply knowing you’re going to get hit can provide your body time to brace itself in time to prevent serious injury. No position in football is in such a prone position for such a long period of time.
I think that the unique protection of quarterbacks is a good thing for the most part. I think the problem here is how (and how often) the rules are enforced. There are definitely some ticky-tack calls made, but that doesn’t mean the nature of the rules themselves have to be in question.
"We must always seek the truth in our opponents' error and the error in our own truth." - RN
There are actually a ton of rules to protect players at all positions in the NFL
Defenseless receiver, fair catches, halo rule,various rules about what is legal while blocking, horse collar, face masks etc.
I’ve known a guy or two in his 80s that complains that modern football is garbage because clotheslines are illegal.
I have no problem with most of it, either
Any way they can help those guys save their brains and bodies without fundamentally changing the game, I’m all for. Again, it comes down to proper enforcement.
I find it funny when people say a game played by a bunch of gigantic, absurdly fit men running into one another is becoming “too soft.” Any sport where chronic traumatic encephalopathy and permanent ligament/bone/joint damage is common is not a sport that is becoming too soft. On a related note, it’s funny when people refer to injury-prone, 200lb+ of muscle NFL players as “brittle.”
"We must always seek the truth in our opponents' error and the error in our own truth." - RN
You're talking about that same people
Who think players should just play through concussions.
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 2, 2011 2:26 PM CST up reply actions
When a receiver is in the air
if his hands touch the ball, he’s fair game. They have nothing to protect a receiver aside from unnecessary roughness and pass interference and now it’s even worse because they removed the rules that kept people from just pushing receivers out of bounds as they attempted to catch the ball.
Horse collar and face mask rules are there to protect everyone and T.O. had to break his freaking leg for them to make the horse collar rule.
These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game. - Charlie Wilson
TRADE KOBY FOR LUTHER HEAD!!!! (it's a movement)
First of all, that’s not the case. Players at basically every position on the field have been given more and more protection, aside from perhaps offensive linemen.
Regardless, protecting the quarterbacks should be a priority. If I am a Colts fan, and Reggie Wayne isn’t playing, I’m not really that bothered. If Peyton Manning isn’t playing, I’m not watching. The quarterbacks make the league.
Give me the rule that protects the receiver
once he catches a ball that was overthrown so he had to leave both feet to catch it. I’ve seen receivers get hit and twisted all kinds of ways without a flag being thrown. I’ve never seen a call for a receiver that got hit in mid-air while making the catch. Again, once a receiver touches the ball, he is fair game.
So let me get this straight, every position on the field is replaceable but qb, so you will watch a team if anyone but the qb gets hurt??
These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game. - Charlie Wilson
TRADE KOBY FOR LUTHER HEAD!!!! (it's a movement)
Down the page
Hits on Defenseless Players
NFL rules provide special protection to defenseless players, by prohibiting (a) hits delivered to their head or neck area by an opponent with his helmet (including facemask), forearm, or shoulder, and (b) hits delivered by an opponent with his helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/“hairline” parts) against any part of the defenseless player’s body (i.e., “butting, spearing, or ramming” a defenseless player.)
Defenseless players are defined as (a) a player in the act of or just after throwing a pass; (b) a receiver catching or attempting to catch a pass; © a runner already in the grasp of a tackler and whose forward progress has been stopped; (d) a kickoff or punt returner attempting to field a kick in the air; and (e) a player on the ground at the end of a play.
"We must always seek the truth in our opponents' error and the error in our own truth." - RN
Sorry, I've never seen any call
for any receiver in the midst of a catch in mid-air. Maybe I’ve just missed them, but I have never seen a single call for this rule.
These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game. - Charlie Wilson
TRADE KOBY FOR LUTHER HEAD!!!! (it's a movement)
Here are a few vids, just for reference.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwAhWlfF3NM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXMVQUzWEdI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTlrbofr5SE
There was actually a bit of hubbub this year about the crackdown on illegal hits.
Lots of receivers that are hit while going up for a catch, but they’re hardly “fair game” much more than any other defenseless player. A blow to the head is a blow to the head, and spearing is spearing, no matter who it’s being done to. Quarterback’s legs are protected (for good reason), but the anti-cut-blocking rules protect the legs of linemen as well. I think the NFL is reasonable in its protection of players relative to position.
"We must always seek the truth in our opponents' error and the error in our own truth." - RN
tuckrule
was actually created in the AFC Championship game (or maybe one round earlier) agains the Oakland Raiders at NE in the snow. Not the Superbowl.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Mar 2, 2011 7:13 AM CST up reply actions
My bad
thought it was the Super Bowl, didn’t see it
These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game. - Charlie Wilson
TRADE KOBY FOR LUTHER HEAD!!!! (it's a movement)
The rule was on the books before then.
It just came to fame in that game.
Check out Humdinger TV on YouTube.
http://twitter.com/HumdingerTV
touche
I just remember the 100 times they replayed it in slow motion and analyzed each bradyeque frame.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Mar 2, 2011 4:08 PM CST up reply actions
Also
That play occurred before Brady had ever become a superstar, Super Bowl-winning quarterback. That was the season he took over for Bledsoe. He wasn’t favored because he was “Tom Brady, superstar.” It was simply a properly enforced – and very stupid – rule that benefited a sophomore quarterback in a very high-profile situation.
"We must always seek the truth in our opponents' error and the error in our own truth." - RN
It occurred because of the league-wide conspiracy against the Raiders.
Just ask Al Davis.
Yeah, but people didn't criticize and I'm not criticizing it because it was Brady.
It was criticized because it was a very stupid rule as you said to protect the qb that puts the defense at a disadvantage when trying to attack the qb. I said that it was created for Brady, but that’s because anytime I think of the rule, that play comes to mind. Sorry, if I hurt your feelings about the NFL
These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game. - Charlie Wilson
TRADE KOBY FOR LUTHER HEAD!!!! (it's a movement)
Wes, Great
Love, Good
Rambis, Ok
Lazar, Bad
Beasley, Awful
Flynn, [not] Attrocious [for once]
Refs, Hyperboles of their normally inconsistent selves
Whenever I'm about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing.
Dude is a *chucker*
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Mar 1, 2011 10:22 PM CST up reply actions
Worse comparatively
but Lazar just isn’t as good. He has an excuse for not playing as well. Beasley is supposed to be good. He’s been the opposite of that for the past couple of months. I wonder if that’s a sign that he isn’t enjoying himself anymore? Or that he truly only does do well as an alpha dog? Or maybe the injuries really are getting to him? Something is wrong with his play lately.
Whenever I'm about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing.
I think the injuries affect him to an extent...
…as does having to learn a different position in an offense that doesn’t make sense to begin with. There’s so much wrong with the team it’s hard to really pin anything on any one cause, I think
I still insist
that Beasley needs to knock it off with the dang long 2s. It’s just not a good shot to make a living off of. Very few people have been able to do it and Beasley, I’d put a lot of money on this, will not be one of those people.
Whenever I'm about to do something, I think "would an idiot do that?" and if they would, I do not do that thing.
Didnt he just drop 30
Against GS? Honest question
What you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your entire rambling incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Mar 1, 2011 10:31 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Beast doesn't bring the emotion same or effort every night
So many of these guys you have no idea what you’re getting from game to game.
by Tangerine dream on Mar 1, 2011 10:34 PM CST up reply actions
We have to make it a point to get him some easy looks when he's off though
Or do something to get a spark in him. But yeah, he’s got to bring it more. Loved his block towards the end.
For the record
SB Nation does, indeed, have a WWE blog. . .and a damn fine one, at that.
Check out Cageside Seats if you’re into the WWE and/or MMA.
SBNation Minnesota - For the greatest sports fans in the world.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on Mar 1, 2011 10:35 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
Do they have anything devoted to video game boxers?
I’ve had “Bald Bull” listed as one of my two favorite athletes for many months now, and nobody with whom to share my passion.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Don't disrespect Glass Joe
No one can take a fall like that guy. I broke out the old NES for my 4y.o. son last week and even he could beat glass joe.
Game lasted really well.
Amazing how simply good design can hold up. They tossed it in with a Gamecube game a while back, and it’s still fun.
Piston… Hurr-i-cane!
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
That's true for a suprising number of NES games actually
Mario 1/2/3 (especially 3), River City Ransom, Battletoads, Zelda, TMNT2 and Double Dragon all seem to have aged well even considering the nostalgia factor. Of course there are hundreds of games that are just as bad now as they were then…. Actually it looks like I just enjoy clunky side-scrolling action games.
I was talking to some Walker curators last year about this.
They’ve considered doing some sort of exhibit, but aren’t sure how to present the artistry of the things. It would be a big, big draw though.
Be fun to have an actual orchestra play some of the Zelda music live, at a summer event.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
To SnP, Oceanary, TimAllen and all of CH,
This is my first CH post and I wanted to say something before it passes by. If anyone ever asks you “what do you actually contribute to the Twolves?”, you can tell them that you’re " winning back fans"— even before the wolves begin to win games!
Before following this blog I was hopeless about the Wolves and life in general. Since the time my religion has grown to include a daily reading from the infallible Word of CanisHoopus, my hope for the TimberWolves has been restored I’ve found a good read and entertainment— brightening my outlook on life. Inculcating myself with such fine rhetoric has been my muse of late.
Thank You!
Now, after some good brown-nosing, I will make a comment that is of relevance to this blog. Tonight, Wes had game! Forget about Kobe being on auto pilot, Wes needs confidence and these games continue to help him build it.
That is all.
Welcome!
When the going gets tough, CH turns into a support group, albeit with a bit more of a snarky spin.
Go pups!
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2011 10:52 PM CST up reply actions
Appreciate the kind words. Glad you're here.
Everything in the computer need my face on it. Mega Gigabytes, son!
CH is a rollercoaster
and I wanted to say something before it passes by.
It will be at the bottom again soon enough!
Welcome!
%
Consummate costumeless wrestler...
was Barry Horowitz.
Many a similarity between the way Barry operated in the squared circle and the way the Wolves have played in the past 5 years.
by fanslaststand on Mar 1, 2011 10:41 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Nice
I couldn’t remember any of the bad wrestlers’ names.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
Barry Horowitz was a great jobber
But he was no George South.
SBNation Minnesota - For the greatest sports fans in the world.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!
by Christopher Gates on Mar 1, 2011 10:47 PM CST up reply actions
Y, Steve Lombardi.
Wolves are totally NBA Jobbers. It makes it more fun to watch when viewed through that prism.
by fanslaststand on Mar 1, 2011 10:56 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Couldn't Agree More on Shortening the Schedule
It’ll never happen, of course, but I think it would actually solve a lot of the problems a lot of people have with the league. Besides, the cream rises to the top rather noticably in the NBA; there’$ no $en$ible reason to play 82 game$.
Besides that, here’s hoping Wes is settling into a role of shooter/defender on the wing. He’ll never be a creator, but if he can keep this up he’ll provide value.
There's also no reason to have 4 rounds of 7 in the playoffs
Am I the only person who ignores the playoffs until the finals, and even then watch 1-2 games?
Too predictable IMO
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2011 11:03 PM CST up reply actions
What's wrong with 4 rounds of 7??
Would you rather the best team win or have it be a crapshoot that makes playing the regular season even more pointless? Why don’t we just shorten the NBA to 30 games, don’t play every team every year. Every team gets in the tournament though and gets a different seed based on regular season performance and then we’ll just do single-elimination. That’ll increase the quality of play in the NBA. Then they’ll actually try.
These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game. - Charlie Wilson
TRADE KOBY FOR LUTHER HEAD!!!! (it's a movement)
...
Why does it always have to be so extreme? The first few rounds of the NBA playoffs are pointless. 16 teams are let in to compete, when in reality only 3-4 have a chance to win the title, if that. The first round is pointless as is, IMO. I say adopt MLB-style playoffs and maybe NFL-style seeding. I do not want single-elimination.
I think the season should be shortened, not that short, though. Please refrain from using hyperbole when talking about this….That seems to be what every playoff argument turns into.
Think about the Wolves. What the heck was the point of them going to the first round yearly and getting pounced? I think that just gave the organization an excuse to continue sucking. Kind of like the Twins routinely winning the division.
I guess I went off on a tangent there but whatevs…
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2011 11:16 PM CST up reply actions
I mean I guess my point is
I don’t get what your problem is with. The four rounds of play or the fact they’re seven games a piece. They used to be five games and it didn’t really make much difference
These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game. - Charlie Wilson
TRADE KOBY FOR LUTHER HEAD!!!! (it's a movement)
If the first round stays, I'd like 5 game series, if only for the reason that
the playoffs would be shortened. However, I would love for there to be a new system put in place similar to the MLB.
NBA playoffs are just very drawn out and the first half of them are pointless (weird grammar there).
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2011 11:44 PM CST up reply actions
Hey hey hey now...
Playoff games = free pass to get drunk with your buddies on a weeknight. More the better.
Reg season games…‘I watch alone, yeeeaaHhhh with nobody else.’
by fanslaststand on Mar 1, 2011 11:25 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Seven game series
Would be fine if they didn’t have so many rear and travel days
by Tangerine dream on Mar 1, 2011 11:14 PM CST up reply actions
lol
I was kinda wondering what a rear day was. lol
These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game. - Charlie Wilson
TRADE KOBY FOR LUTHER HEAD!!!! (it's a movement)
They could easily just tighten the schedule within any given round.
We can argue either way about 7 or 5 games. What kills the intensity of the playoffs, though, is the way even a competitive series going seven games gets watered down. A 7-game series with the schedule like it is now takes something more than two weeks to play out. Comparing that to “March Madness” and the way fans schedule their lives around it, you can’t help but see how the NBA loses attention.
The lack of back-to-backs and the big travel gaps also make roster depth less important. That schedule is indirectly changing styles of play on some level.
Last year the NBA playoffs lasted from April 18 until June 17. You don’t have to cut any games at all to have that be much tighter and much more intense for fans.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
by feral on Mar 2, 2011 9:01 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I think they space it all out for TV money,
but there’s a point at which diminishing returns are obvious to everyone.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Yes back to backs and then no more then 1 rest day maybe 2 days between series
I'm Trill, I'm running w/ the WOLVES
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Mar 2, 2011 9:25 AM CST up reply actions
Also, doing that would reward teams for finishing a series early.
Right now, if you knock off another team in a 4-game sweep you might wind up sitting for a week waiting for your opponent.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
I don't watch until the conference finals
(unless the pups are playing) I just follow box scores until then.
How will shortening the season
make fans of the NBA in general stop complaining about: refs, how much money players make, games with “poor” effort, how much money they pay for seats. All of that stuff would stay the same, players would still be millionaires, refs would still be called out on a regular basis by everyone, and players would still be looked at as coddled or spoiled anytime they happen to have a bad game. The only thing that will change is the amount of time people spend complaining about it. People complain about every single league in the world no matter the length of schedule
These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game. - Charlie Wilson
TRADE KOBY FOR LUTHER HEAD!!!! (it's a movement)
82 games is nonsensical because we know well before that who the relevant teams are. Shortening the schedule would eliminate superfluous games, I think it would go a long ways to addressing the league’s notorious effort problems as the games would become more meaningful, and we’d see fewer injuries.
The other issues you brought up would still be there, of course, but as you say, that’s the nature of the beast. Although presumably the ref issue could be dealt with better if the league really wanted to, to say the least.
I mean, they could.
I wouldn’t mind if they did have a private group control the refs for the NBA and the NCAA just so that all this talk of biased refs and Stern fixing this or that can stop. Stern made his bed, but unfortunately anyone who think the refs aren’t that bad, especially when compared to other leagues, also has to lay in it with him.
In terms of shortening the season, I wouldn’t mind seeing teams play each other twice a year and leave it at that. But the NFL plays 16 games in a season and people complain about the effort from teams in the NFL. I don’t think the effort is the real problem in the league, as much as the perceived lack of effort because of the extreme bias people have towards player salaries. Injuries would probably cut down in the NBA if the season were shortened, but most major injuries aren’t the result of fatigue, but just accidents or regular wear and tear on already bad foundation (i.e. Greg Oden, Brandon Roy, Andrew Bynum). That said some injuries are highly correlated with fatigue, such as poor footing that twists your ankle or someone else’s lackadaisical effort getting you hurt
These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game. - Charlie Wilson
TRADE KOBY FOR LUTHER HEAD!!!! (it's a movement)
by Marty Mart on Mar 1, 2011 11:55 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I really do not see how shortening the season would address the effort issue.
Now let’s pretend you do know who the relevant teams are, and you do not want superfluous games. The most efficient solution is to rid the league of the irrelevant teams. That way, you won’t have top seeded teams putting half assed effort against bottom feeders. Simply playing less game doesn’t make the remaining games more important. Sure, it puts less stress on the players but it also generates less profit for the teams. Playoff teams also financially benefit from the long postseason. Why would they want to make it shorter?
Fuck, I miss Ammo and winning.
by Madz on Mar 2, 2011 12:50 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
If the Lakers can win against a team like Minny by coasting
They’ll do so. There’s no incentive for them to turn up the effort and blow them out of the building if they’re not in the mood for it, as the Minny announcers excellently noted during the course of the game — they’ve won two titles with the same core, they know where they’re supposed to be at, and a regular season game against a basement dweller in March isn’t going to change their perceptions on the matter. It doesn’t matter whether there’s 60 games or 82, it will still be the same.
Same reason Pop frequently pulls his stars from games, restricts Duncan’s regular season burn, and generally doesn’t give a rat’s ass about any one game. He has no investment in a single regular season game because his main pieces know the system, what is expected of them, and where they’re going to be in the playoffs. Won’t change with a shorter season either.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
by Ben R on Mar 2, 2011 1:51 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
fewer games means fewer refs
which also means that you can cut loose the very worst and get a marginally better called game. Huge IN THEORY disclaimer here. It also makes it easier to review games after the fact and grade Refs…if the NBA actually wants to.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Mar 2, 2011 7:19 AM CST up reply actions
The NBA already
reviews every game as it is now and does grade refs on what they did correctly and what they should look out for in each game. Less games wouldn’t necessarily give them any better analysis or give them better refs because the system you’re asking for is already in place.
These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game. - Charlie Wilson
TRADE KOBY FOR LUTHER HEAD!!!! (it's a movement)
I call BS on this
These refs are still the worst in any sport. I doubt they pay any mind to the (little) criticism the NBA gives.
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 2, 2011 12:31 PM CST up reply actions
Ahem. You're calling "BS" on something that is nonetheless true.
You can say it’s not working, but they do review everything. If there’s an institutional bias toward certain players or teams, it has to work through that system somehow.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
But if there were fewer NBA refs
wouldn’t bookies suffer?
Only four more months until the lockout begins!
true
And if my bookie suffers so might I. Hmm…Changed my mind. The NBA needs more refs. Maybe some sort of random assignment for a ref to sit in the stands and blow his whistle from afar. Should be much easier to manipulate that way.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Mar 2, 2011 4:56 PM CST up reply actions
You're going to probably get what you want next season.
Let’s see how much we enjoy that.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Except that last night wasn't a "poor" effort....
….it was a straight up poor one. “Everybody does it” ignores the idea that there can actually be a line that has been crossed in terms of quality. I think the NBA is either at or over that line on a few fronts, and this is from a guy who thinks that they have some of the best individual talent in the league that they’ve ever had and who loves to play the game.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Mar 2, 2011 5:45 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
What is the line though??
You say the NBA has crossed the line, but what constitutes crossing the effort line. What may look like lack of effort, could just be mental or physical fatigue after a long road trip or successive exhausting games. Even with a day of rest, anyone whose played basketball knows that getting up and playing every other day of intense competitive games for a week is exhausting and these guys do it for a living for half a year.
Also, what would be the line in other sports?? At what point do you try to criticize football players for not “trying” or baseball players for “coasting??”
These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game. - Charlie Wilson
TRADE KOBY FOR LUTHER HEAD!!!! (it's a movement)
Children are the key
When my young daughters take an interest in the game and are trying to learn the rules and keep asking “wasn’t that a charge” “how come that wasn’t a foul” “what did that guy do wrong their daddy (for star calls she doesn’t understand)”?
The problem becomes evident.
I could say the same for any level of basketball
or any other sport as well as a matter of fact.
Either way, I was talking about the supposed “lack of effort.” At what point do you say that they aren’t tired, but just aren’t trying.
These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game. - Charlie Wilson
TRADE KOBY FOR LUTHER HEAD!!!! (it's a movement)
I think you want to argue about things that aren't being argued about here
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
You said this:
the idea that there can actually be a line that has been crossed in terms of quality. I think the NBA is either at or over that line on a few fronts
I asked this:
What is the line though?? You say the NBA has crossed the line, but what constitutes crossing the effort line
I’m assuming the quality you’re referring to has dropped off because of a lack of effort because you began your statement with this:
Except that last night wasn’t a “poor” effort….
….it was a straight up poor one.
Please tell me what I’m arguing about that you didn’t say.
These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game. - Charlie Wilson
TRADE KOBY FOR LUTHER HEAD!!!! (it's a movement)
You want to have a ridiculous argument about how ordinary fans....
….view the NBA differently than other leagues. You fail to quote the rest of your statement:
What may look like lack of effort, could just be mental or physical fatigue after a long road trip or successive exhausting games. Even with a day of rest, anyone whose played basketball knows that getting up and playing every other day of intense competitive games for a week is exhausting and these guys do it for a living for half a year.
Also, what would be the line in other sports?? At what point do you try to criticize football players for not "trying" or baseball players for "coasting??"
You like the NBA. So do I. I think the season is too long, you think…well, I don’t know what you really think about that because you go back to trying to make a point about something or other nobody else is really talking about.
That's Mr. Downer to you.
www.canishoopus.com
Shorten the season
then have multi tiered playoffs.
every team gets in, but he trophy’s get smaller as the tier gets lower.
Instead of the Larry O’Brien,
the Wolves get the
Hubie Brown?
Larry Brown?
Nbudi Ebi?
by WinTheLottery on Mar 2, 2011 1:00 PM CST up reply actions
As a society we need to rein in the trophies.
I went to a kids’ karate tournament about a year ago where the 4th-place trophies were gigantic – too tall for any kid under 10 to carry around. Really dumb.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
by feral on Mar 2, 2011 1:25 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Being at the game...not so much fun when more than half of them are cheering
for L.A. and I would wager than 95% of them have probably never even been to California. Grown adults running to the visitor’s tunnel like 12-year olds at a Justin Bieber concert. It was kind of pathetic.
Everything in the computer need my face on it. Mega Gigabytes, son!
Like Camden Yard
When Yanks or Red Sox visit. 75% rooting for visitors.
Fair weather fans suck.
by Tangerine dream on Mar 1, 2011 11:42 PM CST up reply actions
Totally
I made it to an Orioles-Yankees game on a family trip a few years ago. The Yankees lost, and the huge contingent of Yanks fans were pretty sore losers.
"We must always seek the truth in our opponents' error and the error in our own truth." - RN
Some of those very-apparent
Lakers fans bring to mind a certain feminine hygiene product
Only four more months until the lockout begins!
You mean vinegar?
Sry, low budget household.
by Tangerine dream on Mar 2, 2011 11:01 AM CST up reply actions
Damn you
and your coming up with thoughtful, funny comments that I can’t help agree with and appreciate. It makes me think that I may be wrong on Wes Johnson.
Only four more months until the lockout begins!
I'm holding out hope
for another vindicating 2-7 performance, with 3 turnovers and 4 fouls in 33 minutes.
But dang, I was at the game last night, and he looked good. It turns out that not only is Kevin Love not the problem, but apparently Corey Brewer’s presence was hurting Wes Johnson’s performance.
Only four more months until the lockout begins!
Don't fret the next 2-7 or 1-8 is just around the corner
But he’s demonstrating some serious potential and a more well rounded game. If anything should encourage it should be the job he did on Kobe.
But again, time will tell.
by Tangerine dream on Mar 2, 2011 11:58 AM CST up reply actions
I would love, love, love
to see him:
1. Put the ball on the floor twice to get the to the hoop. I’m thinking he is averse to contact, and I can’t blame him, quite frankly.
2. Wipe the smile off of his face, especially in tight situations, or in losses. He seems like a very nice person, and one of the players to whom Love might be referring when Love mentioned the jocularity in the locker room, win or lose.
Only four more months until the lockout begins!
I think at this point that's a wish for year two (ball on floor)
Which will obviously address the other concern…getting to the line.
But if he can defend, shoot a decent % and continue to rebound, assist and block a few shots as he has lately, that would be a pretty good victory.
I don’t like the smile so much either. It can get you in trouble (motivate others). I wouldn’t want Lebron to think I’m mocking him! It’s exactly what Melo did in college though, and I think he’s broken that habit for the most part. Or at least he’s able to back it up.
He is one of the nicest guys you ever want to meet though so rooting for him to successful is much easier for me than most other players.
by Tangerine dream on Mar 2, 2011 12:17 PM CST up reply actions
Oh and also
You are right, I think he is the class comedian.
There is a class clown and there is a class comedian.
The class clown is the guy who streaks naked across the football field at halftime……..the class comedian is the guy who talked him into it. That’s Wes, sneaky funny.
by Tangerine dream on Mar 2, 2011 12:39 PM CST up reply actions
Hmmm . . .
. . . I once talked myself into streaking naked across the field at halftime. Of a soccer game. Among eight year-olds.
The lesson? Soccer may be boring, but the fans apparently aren’t interested in spicing it up a little.
Only four more months until the lockout begins!
As for Johnny Flynn
How does it happen that 5 out of 10 games get described as ‘him not sucking for once.’
Pretty tricky guy do something for the first time a bunch of times.
Write it down, Johnny will be good.
But even more-so, Wes will be really good. Just wanted to say it one more time before everyone who took a rookie slump to be his career summit decides to hop back on.
Get the 'H' out!
No, really, get the ‘H’ out. It’s Jonny. =)
Everything in the computer need my face on it. Mega Gigabytes, son!
He's probably going to have a decent NBA career, once he gets out of MN.
He looked like he was really laboring tonight. I don’t know if that’s nagging injuries or being out of shape or his cat getting run over or what, but he doesn’t look like he’s enjoying himself.
At this point I've considered a "Voodoo" fanpost about Jonny.
It’s his second year, he’s had the injury so we’ve gotten past that – but someone somewhere is sticking a pin through Mr. Flynn’s marionette, or jerking the arms on their strings or something.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
flynn is a "hot dog"
lots of wasted energy, flare, bad shots, etc. even with his bad hip, he’s still our most athletic PG by far, but he never uses it to his advantage.
he does show “flashes”, but overall he just doesn’t get it.
by illwafer on Mar 2, 2011 12:27 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Zero turnovers is a huge step in the right direction
14 assists and 4 turnovers the last two games. I also like that his fg attempts were down.
by Tangerine dream on Mar 2, 2011 7:45 AM CST up reply actions
can one of the coaches pull wes aside
and tell him that if he plays with the same passion and effort as he did tonight, he is going to tear up the league?
the same goes for kevin love. it seems like he needs something to wake him up. i thought he played hard, but things just didn’t go his way. with the same intensity, he could easily have more 30/20 games against average teams.
i know it is hard to get it up every game, but there’s a reason that mark madsen is a multi-millionaire and the utah jazz have had success year after year.
pekovic should be in the starting lineup simply for this reason. he can get his 2 fouls in the first quarter, but then darko can bring his listless play against the opposing bench. we need to always have a strong start to the game to set the tone.
Doesn't Love always struggle against the Lakers though?
With all of their length it just seems like a bad matchup for him.
I agree with Wes, we’ll see how much he can add to his game in the offseason.
They held him under a double-double the last time anyone did, back in November.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
He did have a 23/24 game earlier this year.
Everything in the computer need my face on it. Mega Gigabytes, son!
When you write a game recap that consists of little besides ranting about imagined officiating bias, it reflects poorly upon your entire blog and fanbase.
Just something to think about.
Using your first comment on this blog to judge its members after probably reading just this single article reflects poorly upon yourself as a person and your parents.
Just something to think about.
by Ebomb on Mar 2, 2011 1:27 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
very nice
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on Mar 2, 2011 7:23 AM CST up reply actions
I can't say LAMojo is too far off base
I understand he is probably going to talk crap no matter what. But has any game recap of recent, even during wins of good games, been much at all?
Feel free to write up a detailed summary of your own impressions.
The comments area is an open field, TO.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Nahh---
It’s waayyyy more difficult and valuable to just complain about the creator and moderator’s opinion and take on a particular game or subject.
In fact, I demand one of two things:
1. At least one lengthy post per day from SnP that is entirely original, in both viewpoint and facts, from the year’s other 364 posts, and either completely agrees with my view on the subject, or is so well-written and researched that I am forced to reconsider my position.
2. A refund.
Only four more months until the lockout begins!
To his credit, TO12 has written some fanposts.
They’re not much more than “I really think Jonny Flynn will be good after all,” framed in a question. But he’s tried, some.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Wow, wait a sec here
First, you are taking only what you want out of this conversation, and being a huge dick about it at that.
I didn’t post a comment bitching about the recaps or anything, I just stood up for a commenter who got unfairly blasted for putting his opinion out there. I understand the work SNP puts into it all, and the work that any individual can put in as well, but tell me what LAMojo said that was wrong.
I know what is going on at Canis, so I am not going to say anything too strong, but the fact is, we are getting a lot of effort put into complaining about this or that (mainly the Wolves) and not much into the actual basketball.
Regardless of all that, where do you come of with the jab at me? Your first reply was fine and true, but then you, probably from courage provided from the PoorDick post, decide to take a below the belt shot? It’s just the same old tired ‘too smart for the rest of you’ attitude that this site has started to embody.
My ability to inspire
is indeed legendary, and almost Christ-like (except, I use mine for evil. Also, I do MUCH better with the ladies than he ever did).
Nobody’s saying they’re too smart for the rest of you/us, just that instead of cursing what you perceive to be the darkness of a particular post, perhaps you could illuminate Canis Hoopus with a bright and shining comment or post of your own.
Or even start your own site. Here: www.happytwolves.com is available, and here’s a logo you can use (with permission, of course):
Only four more months until the lockout begins!
You never scored a hot piece of ass like Mary Magdalene.
Cost him a pretty penny though.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Mar 2, 2011 3:10 PM CST up reply actions
I thought you might like it.
But I don’t think it’s a real timberwolf.
Only four more months until the lockout begins!
Well, that won't work then. I'm all about authenticity.
Everything in the computer need my face on it. Mega Gigabytes, son!
Look
Does this sound like ‘cursing the darkness?’
But has any game recap of recent, even during wins or good games, been much at all?
I was just saying that guy got unfairly blasted, then feral took some cheap shots. End of story. I wasn’t making a big statement about this site.
Tell me where I am wrong that the last few recaps haven’t focused much on the game. I didn’t even draw a conclusion, just said…
I must admit
that in the past I’ve employed the “I’m not sayin’, I’m just sayin’” defense myself.
Usually after yelling “MOVIE!” in a crowded firehouse.
Only four more months until the lockout begins!
Your unique sense of "cheap shots" is something I will just
file under “supposed optimism requires a constant stream of bitching about other posters” section. It’s quite a large folder.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Wow. I think I was actually, uh, defending you here?
The two posts you’re calling me “a huge dick” over go like this:
Feel free to write up a detailed summary of your own impressions.
The comments area is an open field, TO.
and
To his credit, TO12 has written some fanposts.
They’re not much more than "I really think Jonny Flynn will be good after all," framed in a question. But he’s tried, some.
I’m not sure what angry place you just came at me from, but I didn’t deserve it. My suggestion to you is that, if you want to have game recaps take on your unique tone, you might want to post something other than a steady drip-drip-drip of criticism of other people’s reactions. Maybe you should post your own thoughts with some actual, you know, longer-form thought to them.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Most internet firearms end up hurting a bystander, or shooting the gun owner in the foot.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
imagined officiating bias
only from a Lakers fan…
"Wes [Johnson] is old, passive, and below-average in every aspect of his game except outside shooting and smiling" - PoorDick
by GWST11 on Mar 2, 2011 3:18 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
"The eye in the sky doesn't lie"
If slow mo replays are showing no foul, it’s better than a lucky guess there was no foul.
by Tangerine dream on Mar 2, 2011 7:49 AM CST up reply actions
How much do people in Los Angeles read, typically?
I’m looking at the text above, and gee golly there’s a bunch of content up there. Maybe the sunglasses you were wearing last night somehow filter out anything that’s not about you?
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Quiet down, punk
The Wolves got biased officiating during their run to the WCF years ago. Garnett got a lot of BS calls throughout his career here (and still does). At least I’m willing to accept that.
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 2, 2011 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
Kevin Love apologised for his poor shooting on twitter...
Appreciated, but apologies from him are a bit silly haha.
Waiting For Rubio, like Estragon.
I think it shows class
Stan Musual (sp?) was one of the classiest baseball players ever. One season he tried to give some of his $ back because he felt he did not play well. I think it’s refreshing that he is just not on cruise control and doesn’t care. I was pleased with the team’s effort. Darko and Pek being in foul trouble didn’t help. Pek’s 3 and 4 were bogus.
I'm Trill, I'm running w/ the WOLVES
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Mar 2, 2011 8:42 AM CST up reply actions
(If anything whatsoever on Twitter can be said to show class, that is.)
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
ha good call
I'm Trill, I'm running w/ the WOLVES
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Mar 2, 2011 10:00 AM CST up reply actions
Some reflections
1. Jonny Flynn plays pretty badly right now, and it has little to do with numbers of assists or turnovers. I’m trying to get my mind around exactly what he’s doing…mostly he just seems like he’s never played basketball before. There’s a spacing issue, there’s a defensive drifting issue, there’s zero blocking out, zero help defense, he doesn’t seem to dribble to a threatening position whether he’s on the break or not. These are things I would expect a rookie to be able to do. I hold little hope that he’s going to understand.
2. Wes Johnson is going to be good, and here’s why. It doesn’t matter how old a guy is, the first year transition to the NBA is a STEEP learning curve. Plus, that first summer off is when truly dedicated players work on their weaknesses. I truly believe Wes will look at lot different after he comes back from his injury midseason. Right now he’s playing well, and this is just a tease. That shot is scary good and will get a lot better with confidence. Next year he handles five times better, gets to the lane, and starts dumping in a number of seven-foot shots. Yeah, he’ll be 24 most of next season, but from what I can tell, he’s been significantly progressing every year of his basketball life. No reason he’ll stop now.
3. Kiss that Utah pick goodbye…for good. No way Utah makes the playoffs this year, so they keep the pick. Without Sloan and Williams, this team is lottery again next year, so pick doesn’t come this way. In 2013, it is top 12 protected…again not likely to come this way. Utah is going to be bad, and even if they improve from where they are this minute, they still won’t likely make the playoffs with other teams also improving. In 2014, no matter what happens, we can switch our pick with Utah, as long as Utah’s isn’t in the top 9. I think the picks will be similar. Assuming we haven’t at some time gotten to use Utah’s pick by 2014, we get a 2nd rd pick that year.
4. I would like the coach to have a special talk/video session with Michael Beasley. Here’s what works, here’s what doesn’t. If you choose to stick with the stuff that doesn’t make the team better, we’re sticking you on the 2nd team and creating a different strategy for when you’re on the floor. But you will no longer disrupt the first team offense.
5. Darko Milicic has anything but a high basketball IQ. He may “see” things, but he sees them too late or he reacts too late or whatever. He also thinks that taking care of the ball is not turning it over on half his touches. How does he not expect a guard to swipe at his ball? Every time. Finally, for all his blocks, he simply does not play good man up defense, nor does he rebound. Except for a few blocks, he shows all the abilities of a college mid-size player who will never make the pros. After watching his good games and bad, I’ve averaged him out to be a serious detriment to the idea of winning.
6. In a full 82 game season, simply not playing Darko and Flynn as opposed to giving them the average minutes they’ve had this season would increase the team’s win total by ten games next year, I’m guessing. And that doesn’t really account for the fact that winning breeds winning and losing breeds losing. A competent center and PG getting those minutes will correct a lot of what is wrong.
7. I was exasperated when Kahn didn’t mention off-guard as a position of need (talking with the media at the trade deadline). Wes will be good, but I really think the Wolves need a really good 2. Wayne Ellington, as much as he’s improved, I don’t believe he can make a consistent positive impact.. The two and three should be a three man rotation (Wes, Beas, XXX) with Ellington getting few minutes…or Webster getting some minutes…but mainly the Wolves need an impactful two guard.
8. The draft should yield a decent player, but I suspect Kahn will deal his first pick, and he should. If he trips into Irving, fine…take him. If not, be prepared to deal for a shooting guard or a real legitimate center.
9. Memphis probably makes the playoffs, and we get another pick., but with Gay out things could possibly fall apart. Since we’re not getting Utah’s pick, either would be okay. Currently that pick would be #18.
10. I really don’t have a clue whether Rubio will be here next year, but I think there are two positives to him we are getting for certain. One, he has handles, and if he’s turning the ball over in the offense like Flynn does, then we know it’s the offense. Two, his defense, though I’ve believed it to be overrated, has to be a lot better than anything we have here right now. If Rubio is here, then Flynn is gone. If Rubio and Irving are both here, Ridnour might also be gone and might actually be worth a little something.
You can't dust for vomit.
by twinstalker on Mar 2, 2011 5:14 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Funny
I truly believe Wes will look at lot different after he comes back from his injury midseason.
I haven't written an insightful post in years.
Indeed, it's simply assumed at this point.
Like Love, I hope his injury occurs in the upper body and not the legs.
by Rascal Flatts on Mar 2, 2011 2:16 PM CST up reply actions
While we're on the topic of ref ing
I just wanted to mention that Bynum and Gasol got away with numerous over the back muggings of KLove. He would get position, go up for the rebound and get clobbered from behind, with the result being them either getting the rebound, or tipping the ball enough that Love lost his handle and the ball out of bounds. One time Love got whistled for a baby version of that same play immediately after suffering one on the opposite end.
BTW, what does rec’d mean?
by pirahna on Mar 2, 2011 8:26 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
It means "Recommended"
If you get click the actions buttons, you will have your choice of Recommending or Flagging a comment. If you rec something it will say “x recs” on the right there. It’s a way of giving people props.
Patiently waiting for a new POBO
by Blakeley on Mar 2, 2011 8:48 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Rec'd for your excellent demonstration.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
by feral on Mar 2, 2011 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I like to dabble in positive trolling
Patiently waiting for a new POBO
by Blakeley on Mar 2, 2011 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The worst of the worst...
Kobe fans who live in Minnesota.
ugh
Those people who come out of the woodwork with their Kobe jersey every time the Lakers are in town. They gotta be some of my least favorite people in the world.
Patiently waiting for a new POBO
by Blakeley on Mar 2, 2011 8:45 AM CST reply actions 3 recs
You mean NBA fans?
The kind that don’t waste their time cheering for a pathetic organization?
Amen.
The Wolves are at least three wins shy of “pathetic.”
Only four more months until the lockout begins!
Heh. Baby steps. Let's go from the abyss to pathetic, then take the herculean leap to mediocrity.
by Rascal Flatts on Mar 2, 2011 2:03 PM CST up reply actions
Do you know how excited
I/we would be to get to 41 wins in a season?
Ohhh . . . sweet, sweet mediocrity.
Only four more months until the lockout begins!
The posterboy for "building toward mediocrity"...
(Grizzlies have been discussed here lately, as such) are moving up the ranks, with their formula. What’s interesting is that they’re doing it with Mayo as a reserve and Gay on the sidelines.
Just goes to show that a GM can have some major misses (e.g. Thabeet) and still
put together a quality roster. The problem with the Wolves is that we hit a home run once a decade and then miss badly on nearly every single other move we make. It’s really staggering.
by Rascal Flatts on Mar 2, 2011 3:06 PM CST up reply actions
There is the tiny possibility
that Hollins may be a better coach than Rambis.
Only four more months until the lockout begins!
Also, add Memphis to the list of teams
that have made huge strides in defense while hardly moving the needle offensively. NOR, PHI, MIL, and MEM have all climbed up to the level of OK to good basketball based almost exclusively on defensive improvement. Also, Marc Gasol and Zach Randolph hardly strike the fear of God into opposing teams defensively, yet they are part of the 8th ranked defense in the NBA. Anyone who thinks we can’t be a top 10 defensive team with Love as the starting PF doesn’t understand how good schemes, good coaching, and the right culture can significantly impact defense more than just individual capability.
by Rascal Flatts on Mar 2, 2011 4:20 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Good points
I am recommending this to other readers of this site.
Only four more months until the lockout begins!
by PoorDick on Mar 2, 2011 4:35 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Why, allow me
to return the favor.
Only four more months until the lockout begins!
by PoorDick on Mar 2, 2011 4:48 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I think you underestimate
the number of LA natives who have packed it up and moved to the twin cities.
I'm sure those same "LA natives"...
Also have an uncle who lives in New York, so that’s why they support the Yankees. And I’m sure they were big Grant Hill fans growing up, so they also support Duke basketball.
Patiently waiting for a new POBO
My family is the opposite
I would go there, too. It’s just that people in LA are douchebags.
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 2, 2011 12:40 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd for unintentional shot at your family.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Family is full of dbags
rec’d for intentional shot?
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 2, 2011 2:28 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
As an ex-douchebag
(assuming it wears off after you move away) I can assure you that my point was exactly that no one moves from LA to MSP (unless offered a headcoaching job or drafted after a year of college).
I was born in Fullerton, CA
And moved to southern MN when I was a year and a half. Does that count?
Also, is there some sort of brand or douchebag marker that I have and don’t know about as a result? Can I get it removed at a fair price?
"We must always seek the truth in our opponents' error and the error in our own truth." - RN
When you get
Really really really drunk or stoned. Although this would not be “recommended”.
Several thoughts from the game
Watched Love really close last night and I am happy to report that he is starting to get the “star” treatment too. He got several calls where he pinned Gasol’s with one arm, jumped up with the other arm to grab/tip the ball, and got the call. Very smart play by Love to negate the size advantage – but a foul on Love none the less. But Love is gaining a star rep and it was very refreshing to see a Twolve player get the calls for a change. That never even happened all that much for KG as a Twolve.
While on the subject, I have concluded that part of the reason Love gets so many rebounds is our team, in general, is chuck full of terrible rebounders. Part of of the Lakers volleyball at the rim was in no small part a result of no one (other than Love) putting a body on their man. You get taught early – the small player needs to body up his bigger opponent to better the chances of getting a rebound. Someone needs to quickly teach this to Beasley, Darko, Pek, Randolph, etc.
From my view, the one of the biggest differences between Kobe and Micheal Jordan is that MJ never took a night off. Kobe does – like last night. It was pretty clear that Kobe felt his team was going to win, no matter what he did, and he coasted through the game on both offense and defense. I never attended a game and saw MJ do that. Always wondered if MJ’s “break” from the game benefited his career – both physically and, more importantly, by restoking his competitiveness. Kobe looks like he could really use a 2 month break – mentally and competitively.
I was surprised the Lakers shot so poorly. Artest was dismal from the 3, and their bench was dismal from everywhere. But it was shocking to see how many really good, uncontested shots that Gasol and Odom got – and missed – last night. We could easily have lost by 25 if those guys just shoot their average.
Pleased to see Wes play well. Really wanted to see Beasley pick up his game – unfortunately it did not happen. Beasley progress seems to have stalled – I hope its just his ankle – and not his work ethic. I think we are getting to the point where we have 4-5 guys who can be in a contending team rotation. But we still need that Alpha dog horse.
Don’t seem how Randolph is going to help this team. Seeing him in person, he has a very, Cory Brewer-esq frame. He is going to really struggle to add more than 20-25 lbs to it. That will make him undersized (from a weight standpoint) to guard the premiere 4’s in the West conference – leaving us with the same defense issue we have right now when we play Love and Beasley together.
Finally, OK crowd. But as SnP pointed out, I just really would prefer us NOT TO CHEER FOR THE OPPONENT. God that makes it tough to be a fan……
Agree on your point about Love getting calls.
If the Wolves were a better team and won some road games, this would drive opposing fans crazy. He’s very skilled at drawing fouls that aren’t really fouls. What makes it especially effective is that he gets so many bonus free throws by flopping after getting a defensive rebound, and he shoots 85-90 percent from the line. 85-feet from the basket, flopping for two points. I’m not sure there’s another player in the league who does this. Is there?
Agreed across the board
but three notes on watching AR and his potential for development:
1. His frame isn’t Bynamesque, but he is still the youngest player (by five months) on the youngest team in the NBA. Tyson Chandler was a beanpole at this age, too, and Marcus Camby’s listed weight is still only 15 pounds more than Randolph’s.
2. Randolph at 19 and Camby at 22 aren’t that far off, per 36 minutes
2. It was fun to watch Randolph pull down a rebound and head up the court on his own. Two more dribbles and it’s a dunk, and I think that will be an exciting tandem (or trio with Wes) when/if Rubio joins the team.
Only four more months until the lockout begins!
Also, re: Randolph's weight...
He did draw Bynum’s 3rd foul (an offensive foul, shoving AR around) at a point in time when Bynum was killing us. It showed some awareness of how to deal with a bigger/stronger opponent.
Good points
Camby was kind of slow out of the gate (most bigs are), and he really has had a nice career (even with all the injuries). If a guy like Randolph improves his BBIQ, he’ll be a great asset.
Question on Darko
Kahn has waved his hands before at some sort of “gentlemen’s agreement” on Darko re: his contract. He seemed to imply that if either party was unhappy, they could end the contract.
Is this true? Seems like it would have to be a “gentlemen’s agreement” and not written in the contract as it probably doesn’t fit into the CBA’s rules for team option years.
Just wondering because, to my eyes, it is not working. He just doesn’t bring it.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Mar 2, 2011 9:52 AM CST up reply actions
(Please nobody ask Eric Fleisher about this. We don't want to find anything in the file cabinet.)
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Was thinking the same thing
Kahn, on the just announced penalty of 3 lost draft picks:
“Methinks I would not have drafted impact players with them anyway.”
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Mar 2, 2011 10:29 AM CST up reply actions
"And,
methinks mewould have to pay them, irregardless."
Only four more months until the lockout begins!
On a positive note
Perhaps Stern would rescind Darko’s contract as he did with Joe Smith? I guess it is more likely he would modify it to be a full max for 10 years.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Mar 2, 2011 10:37 AM CST up reply actions
Heh heh heh--
“And I also decree that the Wolves sign Henk Norel to the mid-level exception, and award the Rights to Ricky Rubio to the New York Knickerbockers. That is all.”
Only four more months until the lockout begins!
Ha when I started on CH
My first questions was who is Henk Norel?
Looks like someone a little more obersvant than Trent Edwards
I'm Trill, I'm running w/ the WOLVES
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Mar 2, 2011 10:41 AM CST up reply actions
Kahn and Rambis
sure can’t be accused of not giving it enough time.
Only four more months until the lockout begins!
Can you imagine
If Darko played with the same intensity and determination as Kevin Love.
I believe in the stats, the advanced stats, the stats shoot of limitations (Brewer), etc.
but Darko says it all about the psychology of sport. Why one athlete excells when an athete of the exact skill set doesn’t. These two are not the argument for that, but what an amazing delta between Love and his potential and Darko and his.
by Tangerine dream on Mar 2, 2011 10:09 AM CST up reply actions
I wish Love didn't get star treatment
I wish no one got star treatment
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 2, 2011 12:41 PM CST up reply actions
Kobe took a night off
because he shares an agent with Wes.
NBA where $$$$ happens
by WinTheLottery on Mar 2, 2011 1:08 PM CST up reply actions
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